December 18, 2024 • 9 mins
Esports New Zealand is challenging High Performance Sport's decision to leave them out of additional funding.
HPSNZ will invest over $160 million into various Kiwi sporting organisations over the next four years - and esports has been left out.
New Zealand Esports CEO joined D'Arcy Waldegrave to discuss.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm good, Darcy, thanks for having me on the show. Good.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Great to have you on Bold. It's been a while,
but here we are. The CEO of e Sport in
New Zealand. You have been told no, a slap back
from High Performance Sport in z You don't count, you
don't qualify. Your initial reaction.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
To this, yeah, unfortunately shocked. I think had to put
it in one word. We're obviously a massive, a massive
sport from a participation lens. We were a pretty small
financial partner with High Performance Sport and we had big
dreams because they've done really well on the global stage
of the last three years on literally the smell of
an oily rag. And so not to only have had
(00:51):
our application denied, but then to take a step backwards
from that and to have denied any investment in US
from you know, the fifteen thousand we had over three years,
it was pretty shocking because it just I think it
sends a message to show that the government aren't interested in,
you know, innovation in the future sport of esports for
what's role it plays with the youth. It was just
(01:12):
feels out of touch.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Let's just roll it back. There will be an argument
and I've heard this number of times. It will carry
on that and you know what I'm going to say,
e sport has got sport in the name, but it's
not a sport. It's just people sitting on their bums
twiddling their fingers. How do you respond to that because
you would have heard that before.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, I mean there's a million different ways you can
respond to it. You can talk about, you know, like
the research and the studies of how it improves your
physical your thing, or your mental activity or anything else.
But I think at the end of the day, we're
never ever going to convince people who don't get it
that it's a sport. But the fact is is that
the Olympic movement are on board. The government recognized it
(01:50):
as a sport in twenty twenty. Like for those and
anyone under the age of you know, forty probably now
know that it's a sport and they're involved in it
and their kids are doing it, and it's just so popular.
So you cannot get it, but there are lots of
people who do and it's really important to and it's
impossible to deny that the data of that. So, you know,
just like football, I don't I'm not a I don't
enjoy football particularly, I don't get it. I don't like
(02:12):
watching people cook a pall back and forth on the
field for ninety minutes and nothing happening. But people are
nutty about the Premier League. They can have that. I'm
not gonna, you know, contest it's not a sport that
it should be pulled from funding because I'm not a
fan of it. But you know, you can't deny it's
a thing.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
People look at the physical exertion and that's generally what
they consider a sport, and they see es sports and
go I don't see anyone sweeting. I don't see anyone
getting physical. I just see soft drinks and chips. I
mean that's an extreme case. But how do you respond
to that?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, honestly, that stereotype comes from the don't get it
category because soft drinks and chips give you know, you're
not healthy when you're eating that stuff. And people who
do esports know this is like one oh one. This
is what you learn when you start is if you
don't have a healthy body, you cannot have a healthy mind,
like imagine trying to do an exam the morning after
a hangover. Like if you haven't treating your body right,
your brain doesn't work and then you can't win these sports.
(03:05):
And on the physicalities side of things, if you want
to bring in like the how active does it need
to be to be a sport? Then where does that
slippery slope like go does that mean that you know
Formula one or racing isn't a sport you're just sitting
on your ass on a chair, driving your driving your
steering wheel, or is prone shooting or shooting in the Olympics,
you're just pulling your trigger finger and breathing or darts.
How physical do you need to be to be a sport?
(03:26):
And that's why I think, you know, it's really a
non argument. But again just from the people who don't
get it, because for the people who actually been to
an esports event or for event people who participate in
esport on the weekly, like the competition, the practice, the commitment,
the sacrifice, the teamwork, like all of those things you need,
it's obviously undeniably a sport for the people who are
(03:48):
in the space, Like I said, we're never going to
convince people who don't know what esports is or have
no interest in it, that it is a sport. But
there are hundreds of thousands of kiwis, and they guarantee
there's one in almost every home of every listener listening
right now. Are people doing it? And if there's that
many people doing it, what's the point in denying it?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Jonathan Jensen joins the CEO of Esport New Zealand. Now
your president Connor English, and he's using the quote you've
been using. Perhaps they just don't get it. How can
you make people at high performance sport understand the relevance
of esport and buy into this. Look, I'm of the
older generation, mid fifties. I look at it and go
(04:29):
they didn't look like a sport to me. But what
you're saying about football, what I like and what I
don't like it is irrelevant because people are buying into this,
and they're buying them into it big time. It is
clear and present, and to ignore it to me is
borderline insanity.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, and I agree with you, and that's why when
you ask me what can we do to make them understand? Today?
This decision has left me baffled on that because when
we went in we showed them that we have had,
you know, representation at every major esports have been over
the last three years. We had Kate McCarthy who won
the UCI World Cycling Esports Championship. We had lead dem
(05:07):
Ocky won the America's Cup e Sailing Series. We had
bronze medals of the Global Games. If you look at
like the sports performance track records, we've been hit in
wickets and we're doing so well on almost you know,
no funding, and it's across a range of different areas.
And we presented this to high Performance Sports saying, look,
we have a real opportunity here to on the cusp
(05:29):
of this explosion of this new interest industry, lead the
world and continue getting world leading results. And they just
basically turned around and said, look, we don't care, like
we don't recognize it. And we can show them the
data to show them that, you know, esports players are
twice as likely to play physical sport than non esports
players because they're competitive people who do this. We can
(05:50):
show them the data around gaming and esports being different
and esports being a place that actually introduces a lot
of kids into sport in a space where they're struggling.
But it seems to be that no matter what we
do with all those arguments and players which we thought
were really compelling, didn't matter. Just comes down to make
you wonder, you know, who are the people making these
(06:10):
decisions and why are they're not taking the time to
recognize its importance.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
International Olympic Committee are debuting an Olympic e Sports Games
next year, a brand new Olympic sport. You'd think cutting
edge wise that the government would be or high performance sport.
New Zealand would like to be at the front of
that wave. That kind of sits nicely with what New
Zealand want to do as far as their aspirations technologically.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
You'd think so. And again like this isn't it. It's
not as if you know, it's just another sport in
the Olympics. It's its own Olympic Games, and so it
has this gravitas about it that a lot of countries
are starting to take seriously. And like I said, we're
rather at the forefront of this. We've got current world
champions and multiple disciplines that we could show up to
these things and we could blow the world away and
(07:00):
do what we love doing as New Zealander is by
punching above our weight. But is that possible anymore? You know,
I don't know, And it's kind of it is it's
shocking that we're deciding we're making the conscious decision. I
say we, but I mean someone it's making the conscious
decision to turn away from all that momentum that's been
built and kind of just give up on this new
(07:20):
space that we've been leading. And that's that you're don't
going to give up?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
What's your recourse? What do you do now? What does
the community do? What does Esport New Zealand do to
try and wrestle some funding at a high performance? Ord
you just go private and give it up.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Well, we do what we've always done, which we've always
had very limited, you know, governmental financial support, and so
we're used to We operate on the a single percentage
point of many of the other sports in terms of
revenue and turnover. So we continue doing what we do.
We've got great partners through like Chorus, Red Bull, Baracca,
We've got lots and lots of commercial partners who help
us do what we do. So we're going to continue driving,
(07:55):
We're going to continue investing. We know we've got awesome talent.
It's just disheartening, I guess because these athletes who are
training every day and there, you know, as well as
their full time job to pay their way across the
world to compete in these events. The biggest thing they
want when you talk to them is recognition and even
(08:16):
just being part of the High Performance program. For the
last three years we've had athletes who are part of
the High Performance Athlete program and they feel that recognition
because they feel like they're actually included and accepted. And
now that's being taken away. It's just another hit I
guess against against that. But you know, we're in a
news space. I think that's part of the difficulty of
being in a in a rapidly moving startup, you know environment.
(08:39):
And so we're gonna keep doing what we're doing. We're
going to keep performing. We're not going to keep pushing
players out there. We're going to keep marching towards the
Olympic Esports Games next year hopefully get some good results. Yeah,
we just wish we had the recognition and the support
of the country while we did it.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Jonathan Jansen, CEO of Esport, and you said on me,
thank you very much for your time and your explanation.
You look after yourself and have a very merry Christmas.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Merry Christmas, do you two, and thanks of the time.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to news talks
there'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm good, Darcy, thanks for having me on the show. Good.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Great to have you on Bold. It's been a while,
but here we are. The CEO of e Sport in
New Zealand. You have been told no, a slap back
from High Performance Sport in z You don't count, you
don't qualify. Your initial reaction.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
To this, yeah, unfortunately shocked. I think had to put
it in one word. We're obviously a massive, a massive
sport from a participation lens. We were a pretty small
financial partner with High Performance Sport and we had big
dreams because they've done really well on the global stage
of the last three years on literally the smell of
an oily rag. And so not to only have had
(00:51):
our application denied, but then to take a step backwards
from that and to have denied any investment in US
from you know, the fifteen thousand we had over three years,
it was pretty shocking because it just I think it
sends a message to show that the government aren't interested in,
you know, innovation in the future sport of esports for
what's role it plays with the youth. It was just
(01:12):
feels out of touch.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Let's just roll it back. There will be an argument
and I've heard this number of times. It will carry
on that and you know what I'm going to say,
e sport has got sport in the name, but it's
not a sport. It's just people sitting on their bums
twiddling their fingers. How do you respond to that because
you would have heard that before.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, I mean there's a million different ways you can
respond to it. You can talk about, you know, like
the research and the studies of how it improves your
physical your thing, or your mental activity or anything else.
But I think at the end of the day, we're
never ever going to convince people who don't get it
that it's a sport. But the fact is is that
the Olympic movement are on board. The government recognized it
(01:50):
as a sport in twenty twenty. Like for those and
anyone under the age of you know, forty probably now
know that it's a sport and they're involved in it
and their kids are doing it, and it's just so popular.
So you cannot get it, but there are lots of
people who do and it's really important to and it's
impossible to deny that the data of that. So, you know,
just like football, I don't I'm not a I don't
enjoy football particularly, I don't get it. I don't like
(02:12):
watching people cook a pall back and forth on the
field for ninety minutes and nothing happening. But people are
nutty about the Premier League. They can have that. I'm
not gonna, you know, contest it's not a sport that
it should be pulled from funding because I'm not a
fan of it. But you know, you can't deny it's
a thing.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
People look at the physical exertion and that's generally what
they consider a sport, and they see es sports and
go I don't see anyone sweeting. I don't see anyone
getting physical. I just see soft drinks and chips. I
mean that's an extreme case. But how do you respond
to that?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, honestly, that stereotype comes from the don't get it
category because soft drinks and chips give you know, you're
not healthy when you're eating that stuff. And people who
do esports know this is like one oh one. This
is what you learn when you start is if you
don't have a healthy body, you cannot have a healthy mind,
like imagine trying to do an exam the morning after
a hangover. Like if you haven't treating your body right,
your brain doesn't work and then you can't win these sports.
(03:05):
And on the physicalities side of things, if you want
to bring in like the how active does it need
to be to be a sport? Then where does that
slippery slope like go does that mean that you know
Formula one or racing isn't a sport you're just sitting
on your ass on a chair, driving your driving your
steering wheel, or is prone shooting or shooting in the Olympics,
you're just pulling your trigger finger and breathing or darts.
How physical do you need to be to be a sport?
(03:26):
And that's why I think, you know, it's really a
non argument. But again just from the people who don't
get it, because for the people who actually been to
an esports event or for event people who participate in
esport on the weekly, like the competition, the practice, the commitment,
the sacrifice, the teamwork, like all of those things you need,
it's obviously undeniably a sport for the people who are
(03:48):
in the space, Like I said, we're never going to
convince people who don't know what esports is or have
no interest in it, that it is a sport. But
there are hundreds of thousands of kiwis, and they guarantee
there's one in almost every home of every listener listening
right now. Are people doing it? And if there's that
many people doing it, what's the point in denying it?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Jonathan Jensen joins the CEO of Esport New Zealand. Now
your president Connor English, and he's using the quote you've
been using. Perhaps they just don't get it. How can
you make people at high performance sport understand the relevance
of esport and buy into this. Look, I'm of the
older generation, mid fifties. I look at it and go
(04:29):
they didn't look like a sport to me. But what
you're saying about football, what I like and what I
don't like it is irrelevant because people are buying into this,
and they're buying them into it big time. It is
clear and present, and to ignore it to me is
borderline insanity.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, and I agree with you, and that's why when
you ask me what can we do to make them understand? Today?
This decision has left me baffled on that because when
we went in we showed them that we have had,
you know, representation at every major esports have been over
the last three years. We had Kate McCarthy who won
the UCI World Cycling Esports Championship. We had lead dem
(05:07):
Ocky won the America's Cup e Sailing Series. We had
bronze medals of the Global Games. If you look at
like the sports performance track records, we've been hit in
wickets and we're doing so well on almost you know,
no funding, and it's across a range of different areas.
And we presented this to high Performance Sports saying, look,
we have a real opportunity here to on the cusp
(05:29):
of this explosion of this new interest industry, lead the
world and continue getting world leading results. And they just
basically turned around and said, look, we don't care, like
we don't recognize it. And we can show them the
data to show them that, you know, esports players are
twice as likely to play physical sport than non esports
players because they're competitive people who do this. We can
(05:50):
show them the data around gaming and esports being different
and esports being a place that actually introduces a lot
of kids into sport in a space where they're struggling.
But it seems to be that no matter what we
do with all those arguments and players which we thought
were really compelling, didn't matter. Just comes down to make
you wonder, you know, who are the people making these
(06:10):
decisions and why are they're not taking the time to
recognize its importance.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
International Olympic Committee are debuting an Olympic e Sports Games
next year, a brand new Olympic sport. You'd think cutting
edge wise that the government would be or high performance sport.
New Zealand would like to be at the front of
that wave. That kind of sits nicely with what New
Zealand want to do as far as their aspirations technologically.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
You'd think so. And again like this isn't it. It's
not as if you know, it's just another sport in
the Olympics. It's its own Olympic Games, and so it
has this gravitas about it that a lot of countries
are starting to take seriously. And like I said, we're
rather at the forefront of this. We've got current world
champions and multiple disciplines that we could show up to
these things and we could blow the world away and
(07:00):
do what we love doing as New Zealander is by
punching above our weight. But is that possible anymore? You know,
I don't know, And it's kind of it is it's
shocking that we're deciding we're making the conscious decision. I
say we, but I mean someone it's making the conscious
decision to turn away from all that momentum that's been
built and kind of just give up on this new
(07:20):
space that we've been leading. And that's that you're don't
going to give up?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
What's your recourse? What do you do now? What does
the community do? What does Esport New Zealand do to
try and wrestle some funding at a high performance? Ord
you just go private and give it up.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Well, we do what we've always done, which we've always
had very limited, you know, governmental financial support, and so
we're used to We operate on the a single percentage
point of many of the other sports in terms of
revenue and turnover. So we continue doing what we do.
We've got great partners through like Chorus, Red Bull, Baracca,
We've got lots and lots of commercial partners who help
us do what we do. So we're going to continue driving,
(07:55):
We're going to continue investing. We know we've got awesome talent.
It's just disheartening, I guess because these athletes who are
training every day and there, you know, as well as
their full time job to pay their way across the
world to compete in these events. The biggest thing they
want when you talk to them is recognition and even
(08:16):
just being part of the High Performance program. For the
last three years we've had athletes who are part of
the High Performance Athlete program and they feel that recognition
because they feel like they're actually included and accepted. And
now that's being taken away. It's just another hit I
guess against against that. But you know, we're in a
news space. I think that's part of the difficulty of
being in a in a rapidly moving startup, you know environment.
(08:39):
And so we're gonna keep doing what we're doing. We're
going to keep performing. We're not going to keep pushing
players out there. We're going to keep marching towards the
Olympic Esports Games next year hopefully get some good results. Yeah,
we just wish we had the recognition and the support
of the country while we did it.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Jonathan Jansen, CEO of Esport, and you said on me,
thank you very much for your time and your explanation.
You look after yourself and have a very merry Christmas.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Merry Christmas, do you two, and thanks of the time.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to news talks
there'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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