April 2, 2025 • 9 mins
Moana Pasifika aren't going to rest on their laurels after a shock first-ever win over the Crusaders in Super Rugby.
Coach Tana Umaga wants more consistency for his team - but only after they enjoy one of the highlights of his fabled playing and coaching career.
Debbie Sorensen - CEO of Moana Pasifika joined D'Arcy to discuss the overall success of Super Rugby this year, and resurgence amongst fans.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duesci Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We're talking the resurgence of Mowana Pacificia. Not they exactly
fell down, they weren't great, but man they came back
with a roar over the weekend and also the lifting
of super Rugby. Joined now by chief executive of Maana Pacifica,
Debbie Sorenson.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Good evening, Debbie, good evening.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Does he I trust your well and still reveling in
what happened over the weekend with your team of men
who did well almost the impossible.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Indeed, indeed we were very proud of them.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
They did something that no one expected. And I suppose
the underlying thing here is this competition has been throwing
up fantastic results, unusual results right the way through, which
lends it to thinking whatever's changed has worked. This is
a great.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Comp It is a great camp and I think it
says you say every week is unpredictable, which is what
brings X to the fans. You know, you can't say
for sure on any week what the outcome will be.
And the teams are very close together, you know, there's
not a big gap amongst them.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, we've seen that Mowana hasn't had the greatest start.
They've had the one victory against the Hurricanes, but they've
been very close right the way through. They've not been
a team that's been easily rolled. Is there anything particularly?
I think that the new version of Super Rugby Pacific
is done to aid to assist the closing of this competition.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
I think that the clubs all working and the Super
Rugby clubs all work together as a group, and so
working as a collective really makes a difference. You know,
we understand that it's all of us together, not an
individual team that will make the difference, and so on
things that matter, like improving fan engagement. You've seen Fantasy
(01:58):
Rugby stood up this year. You know, those are the
sorts of initiatives that are making a difference and you
can see those bedding in.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So there's the the suberaguy fantasy. Is there another way
that manifests that you can share this when teams actually
clubs come together, franchises come together. What's the dominant thing
here that helps helps us out?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
The dominant theme is actually fan engagement.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
How can the game be faster, how can it be
closer to fans, so fans understand it more. So, you know,
things like reffing up mikes is really important so that
fans understand the rules and what's going on on field.
I think player welfare is a big thing, and you know,
the clubs are very serious about player welfare.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And so that makes a difference to the team's performance.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
When you look at the transferable results from things like
fan engagement. Though, but does that directly affect what goes
on on the pad it because what we're seeing here
is that, as we've mentioned, a very close competition. So
is it an easing of ruling for the referees? Is
there anything palpable there that make these games are a
(03:07):
better fixed or a better vision.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Well, we're monitoring statistics all the time, so you know,
things like how much downtime when the ball's not in play,
So that's reduced significantly from last season, so the ball
is active for longer. That's what fans want to see.
They don't want to be standing around, you know, watching
officials talking about stuff, making sure that the game is
moving faster. You know how many more runs players make.
(03:34):
Those sorts of things they translate directly onto the field
and directly into you know, fan appreciation, and we have
seen more engagement from fans this year significantly than last year.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Must be helpful for yourselves that you've actually got a
regular venue to call home. That can't be slowing things down, Debbie.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Indeed, you're right, Darcy.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
You know, I think that we all accept that North
Harbor is not where we would love to be, you know,
in terms of our heart and soul. But you know,
I'm so grateful to the North Harbor Rugby and North
Harbor community, the business community who have stepped in behind us,
and also to our fans who have embraced us being
at North Harbor. And you know, it's a world class facility.
(04:19):
We can't complain about the facilities there. It's just that
kind of thought of having to drive across the bridge
on a Friday night is a little bit daunting. But
we're seeing it with fans. You know, we have more
people coming than we've had in four seasons.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
You can't be close to being happy though, with the
amount of fans that turn up. I'm presuming there's a
lot of room to move. What other adjustments can be
made through Super Rugby that can help get bums on seats.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yes, I think looking at how you know, this year
we've got a new finals structure, so having a look
at seeing how that works with finals footy and whether
that works very well.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I think also just being mindful.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Of the drawer and so the drawer is quite a
technical activity, trying to shep at eleven teams, you know,
across sixteen weeks. And I think just being mindful that
the draw actually works for fans is an important thing
because we know it works for broadcasters.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
It's largely driven around that.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
But also making sure that fans, you know, they can
actually get two games is an important thing.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
So it's planning where the games are and when they are,
and it's tailoring that to the venue they find themselves
in the city, the town they find themselves in.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
That's absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
So you know, the Highlanders would say that that their
best crowds are on a Sunday afternoon. They can get
the crowds in from their rural areas, whereas you know
another city Sunday afternoon is not the go. So, you know,
I think those sorts of things. I think there's a
lot of work that goes on behind the scenes that
people are not necessarily that aware of you know, where
(05:55):
the Super Rugby community are actually working hard to make
it a great experience in a great event.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
There's been complaints debbe about the legitimacy. I suppose you'd
say an eleven t competition and how difficult it makes
it with working and buyers and the like. But with
the eleventh or the eleven teams one less that's actually
really really racheled up the ability of the Australian side.
(06:21):
So even though eleven is cumbersome, it's working quite well.
Is there a potential for a shift to twelve? Was
there a want for that?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Well, you know, I think twelve would be ideal. Ten
is not ideal, and it's just about how that develops.
I think there is a lot of concern about eleven teams,
you know, at a preseason, but as you say, Darcy,
it is working very well and we're seeing, you know,
it's a very tight competition. It's very competitive. The Australians
(06:51):
have come to play this year and it's interesting to
watch that.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
You know, I think it's going very well.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
What about you mentioned the fact that you're looking after
player welfare and player safety. We're still seeing a number
of players being envalided out. I suppose look at the
Blues and the amount of players that they lost. Is
that just part and parcel of having a competition that's
high impact.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
The competition is high impact, and of course what people
on the street don't see is also the high impact
that goes on at training during the week. So it's
not just you know, the game that they play on
the field in the weekend, it's also the training during
the week, and it is physically you know, the competition
itself is physically demanding. These young men are bigger and
(07:34):
faster and stronger, and so you know that it's an
impact sport and so you've got to appreciate that that's
going to take a toll, you know, on people. I
think the thing that everyone is most concerned about is
protecting the head and reducing head injuries. You know, we
all understand that that's something that we need to continue
to work hard on.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
The general Populist sports fans rugby fans for quite some time,
and I'm right at the cold face Head Debbie have
been pretty keen to punch down on rugby union, on
super Rugby. I think it's high time the game was
lifted through the fans themselves. Do you think it's time
for a turnaround in fortunes and for people to accept
(08:15):
that actually Super Rugby is a vibrant and relevant competition
despite years of maybe being underwhelming.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I think we're seeing that this year. It feels like
our Super Rugby star is rising. That we have the
right combination of you know, clubs and teams working together,
of an end of the game being really exciting to watch.
You know, it's exciting and it's interesting, and our fans
are turning out, and so you know, our star is
(08:44):
on the rise and it's a fantastic thing to be
part of.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Well, no, Laurel resting what happens now? What has to
be worked on now? Because there's the brave future, isn't
there's the new front? What are you looking toward?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Well, that's right.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
So you know, we continue to need to have you know, memberships,
We need to continue to drive fans turning up for
games because the viewership is actually very strong on broadcasting.
But you know, it makes all the difference having fans
in the seats at the grounds and you see the
impact of that. I think the other thing is just
(09:18):
the ongoing financial viability of the sport, and you know sport,
no matter what sport you're in, things are pretty tough
at the moment with the recession, and so thinking about
you know, what does the if you consider that rugby
is primarily a broadcasting product, you know, it's an entertainment product,
what does that then mean? You know, where are those
(09:41):
markets where there's more revenue to support the game.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
You don't need for the DMO. We've got the breakdown
on Sports Talk Cool Oh Wait, Night News Talks. For
more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks it
B from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duesci Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We're talking the resurgence of Mowana Pacificia. Not they exactly
fell down, they weren't great, but man they came back
with a roar over the weekend and also the lifting
of super Rugby. Joined now by chief executive of Maana Pacifica,
Debbie Sorenson.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Good evening, Debbie, good evening.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Does he I trust your well and still reveling in
what happened over the weekend with your team of men
who did well almost the impossible.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Indeed, indeed we were very proud of them.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
They did something that no one expected. And I suppose
the underlying thing here is this competition has been throwing
up fantastic results, unusual results right the way through, which
lends it to thinking whatever's changed has worked. This is
a great.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Comp It is a great camp and I think it
says you say every week is unpredictable, which is what
brings X to the fans. You know, you can't say
for sure on any week what the outcome will be.
And the teams are very close together, you know, there's
not a big gap amongst them.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, we've seen that Mowana hasn't had the greatest start.
They've had the one victory against the Hurricanes, but they've
been very close right the way through. They've not been
a team that's been easily rolled. Is there anything particularly?
I think that the new version of Super Rugby Pacific
is done to aid to assist the closing of this competition.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
I think that the clubs all working and the Super
Rugby clubs all work together as a group, and so
working as a collective really makes a difference. You know,
we understand that it's all of us together, not an
individual team that will make the difference, and so on
things that matter, like improving fan engagement. You've seen Fantasy
(01:58):
Rugby stood up this year. You know, those are the
sorts of initiatives that are making a difference and you
can see those bedding in.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So there's the the suberaguy fantasy. Is there another way
that manifests that you can share this when teams actually
clubs come together, franchises come together. What's the dominant thing
here that helps helps us out?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
The dominant theme is actually fan engagement.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
How can the game be faster, how can it be
closer to fans, so fans understand it more. So, you know,
things like reffing up mikes is really important so that
fans understand the rules and what's going on on field.
I think player welfare is a big thing, and you know,
the clubs are very serious about player welfare.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And so that makes a difference to the team's performance.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
When you look at the transferable results from things like
fan engagement. Though, but does that directly affect what goes
on on the pad it because what we're seeing here
is that, as we've mentioned, a very close competition. So
is it an easing of ruling for the referees? Is
there anything palpable there that make these games are a
(03:07):
better fixed or a better vision.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Well, we're monitoring statistics all the time, so you know,
things like how much downtime when the ball's not in play,
So that's reduced significantly from last season, so the ball
is active for longer. That's what fans want to see.
They don't want to be standing around, you know, watching
officials talking about stuff, making sure that the game is
moving faster. You know how many more runs players make.
(03:34):
Those sorts of things they translate directly onto the field
and directly into you know, fan appreciation, and we have
seen more engagement from fans this year significantly than last year.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Must be helpful for yourselves that you've actually got a
regular venue to call home. That can't be slowing things down, Debbie.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Indeed, you're right, Darcy.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
You know, I think that we all accept that North
Harbor is not where we would love to be, you know,
in terms of our heart and soul. But you know,
I'm so grateful to the North Harbor Rugby and North
Harbor community, the business community who have stepped in behind us,
and also to our fans who have embraced us being
at North Harbor. And you know, it's a world class facility.
(04:19):
We can't complain about the facilities there. It's just that
kind of thought of having to drive across the bridge
on a Friday night is a little bit daunting. But
we're seeing it with fans. You know, we have more
people coming than we've had in four seasons.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
You can't be close to being happy though, with the
amount of fans that turn up. I'm presuming there's a
lot of room to move. What other adjustments can be
made through Super Rugby that can help get bums on seats.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yes, I think looking at how you know, this year
we've got a new finals structure, so having a look
at seeing how that works with finals footy and whether
that works very well.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I think also just being mindful.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Of the drawer and so the drawer is quite a
technical activity, trying to shep at eleven teams, you know,
across sixteen weeks. And I think just being mindful that
the draw actually works for fans is an important thing
because we know it works for broadcasters.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
It's largely driven around that.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
But also making sure that fans, you know, they can
actually get two games is an important thing.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
So it's planning where the games are and when they are,
and it's tailoring that to the venue they find themselves
in the city, the town they find themselves in.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
That's absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
So you know, the Highlanders would say that that their
best crowds are on a Sunday afternoon. They can get
the crowds in from their rural areas, whereas you know
another city Sunday afternoon is not the go. So, you know,
I think those sorts of things. I think there's a
lot of work that goes on behind the scenes that
people are not necessarily that aware of you know, where
(05:55):
the Super Rugby community are actually working hard to make
it a great experience in a great event.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
There's been complaints debbe about the legitimacy. I suppose you'd
say an eleven t competition and how difficult it makes
it with working and buyers and the like. But with
the eleventh or the eleven teams one less that's actually
really really racheled up the ability of the Australian side.
(06:21):
So even though eleven is cumbersome, it's working quite well.
Is there a potential for a shift to twelve? Was
there a want for that?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Well, you know, I think twelve would be ideal. Ten
is not ideal, and it's just about how that develops.
I think there is a lot of concern about eleven teams,
you know, at a preseason, but as you say, Darcy,
it is working very well and we're seeing, you know,
it's a very tight competition. It's very competitive. The Australians
(06:51):
have come to play this year and it's interesting to
watch that.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
You know, I think it's going very well.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
What about you mentioned the fact that you're looking after
player welfare and player safety. We're still seeing a number
of players being envalided out. I suppose look at the
Blues and the amount of players that they lost. Is
that just part and parcel of having a competition that's
high impact.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
The competition is high impact, and of course what people
on the street don't see is also the high impact
that goes on at training during the week. So it's
not just you know, the game that they play on
the field in the weekend, it's also the training during
the week, and it is physically you know, the competition
itself is physically demanding. These young men are bigger and
(07:34):
faster and stronger, and so you know that it's an
impact sport and so you've got to appreciate that that's
going to take a toll, you know, on people. I
think the thing that everyone is most concerned about is
protecting the head and reducing head injuries. You know, we
all understand that that's something that we need to continue
to work hard on.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
The general Populist sports fans rugby fans for quite some time,
and I'm right at the cold face Head Debbie have
been pretty keen to punch down on rugby union, on
super Rugby. I think it's high time the game was
lifted through the fans themselves. Do you think it's time
for a turnaround in fortunes and for people to accept
(08:15):
that actually Super Rugby is a vibrant and relevant competition
despite years of maybe being underwhelming.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I think we're seeing that this year. It feels like
our Super Rugby star is rising. That we have the
right combination of you know, clubs and teams working together,
of an end of the game being really exciting to watch.
You know, it's exciting and it's interesting, and our fans
are turning out, and so you know, our star is
(08:44):
on the rise and it's a fantastic thing to be
part of.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Well, no, Laurel resting what happens now? What has to
be worked on now? Because there's the brave future, isn't
there's the new front? What are you looking toward?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Well, that's right.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
So you know, we continue to need to have you know, memberships,
We need to continue to drive fans turning up for
games because the viewership is actually very strong on broadcasting.
But you know, it makes all the difference having fans
in the seats at the grounds and you see the
impact of that. I think the other thing is just
(09:18):
the ongoing financial viability of the sport, and you know sport,
no matter what sport you're in, things are pretty tough
at the moment with the recession, and so thinking about
you know, what does the if you consider that rugby
is primarily a broadcasting product, you know, it's an entertainment product,
what does that then mean? You know, where are those
(09:41):
markets where there's more revenue to support the game.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
You don't need for the DMO. We've got the breakdown
on Sports Talk Cool Oh Wait, Night News Talks. For
more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks it
B from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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