April 3, 2025 • 42 mins
D'Arcy Waldegrave returned to wrap another day of sports news! Highlights for tonight include:
Laurie Mains - Former All Blacks Head Coach - On five years without South Africa in Super Rugby
Talkback - Should we look to include South Africa back into Super Rugby?
Michael Lamonato - FIA Accredited F1 Writer - In Japan for this weekend's grand prix.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk zed.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
B seven after seven, good evening. This is a sports
(00:39):
talk on News Talks e B. It is earth Thursday evening,
third of April twenty twenty five. My name is Darcy Waldgrave.
Sport from now through until eight o'clock. I'll try it
to DEV eight. I can't promise, but I will try it.
Bit of motorsport, bit of rugby. That's what we got
up for you. Michael Lamonato, if I a accredited IF
(01:02):
one writer works for Fox as well. I he'll join
us from Suzuka. As we looked toward the Japanese Grand Prix,
which has proved to be a massive talking point in
Formula one circles and Red Bull circles and racing ball circles.
(01:24):
I think you know what we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
You.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
He's been promoted. What's the energy behind it? Right now?
Michael Eliminato joins us first art Laurie Maines is on
the show. Our former All black Head coach spent a
lot of time in the Republic, coach some super teams
in South Africa. It's been five years since we kissed
goodbye to South African involvement in Super Rugby. It was
(01:47):
triggered by a bit of a global lurgie. But they've
never come back, so Laurie's is the game suffered? Have
they suffered? Have we, as anyone actually suffered? Do we
get them back again? Does it matter? Happy anniversary baby
Laurie joining us surely then we'll take your calls. Is
it worth looking at maybe trying to drag South Africa
(02:08):
back into the fold again? Is our game weaker without them?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Like?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Do you miss it? Do you wake up bolt up
right in the middle of a Sunday morning, Go, I
want to see the whole thing. Cat's playing the hut
now and you probably don't. Oh eight hundred eighty ten
eighty the reinclusion of South Africa or are we happy
as a clam without them anywhere? Nearest? I've got some
thoughts on that. I know you'll have some thoughts on that.
(02:34):
Laurie definitely does. He joins us next. But before that,
this today, and it's for today. Christian Horner, principle of
the Red Bull Formula One team, has offered this clumsy
excuse as to why he and the Red Bull Brains
trust gassed Liam Lawson after only two races.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
It was very clear to the engineering side within the
team just how much Liam was struggling with it all.
And you could see that weight upon his shoulders and
so you know, the engineers were coming to me very
concerned about it.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Of course, engine and he is offering psychological advice. Maybe
they should stick tansnering a car that you can drive
returning Blue Bowden. Barrett has been around too long to
let any inevitability of injury affect him too deeply frustrating.
Speaker 6 (03:26):
That's sport, and in terms of injuries, I've had a
pretty good run, So I'm certainly not one to.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Give her head down about those sorts of things.
Speaker 6 (03:36):
Just got to control what I can, and that has
been the previous three weeks.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Honestly, I try, but no confirmation is available around the
owner of that manly background grunt four times at World
at Motocross champion Courtney Duncan has been stopped in her
tracks by her heart. Eight weeks ago, she was overwhelmed
with chest pain. How it checked out. The diagnosis Perry
card ditess a swelling of the major pumps surrounding Tessie.
(04:04):
So she's out of the first round of WMX twenty
twenty five as she recovers.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
And struggling to get through a thirty minute what Blake
session at the moment with low resistance.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So I think reality goes I wouldn't even be.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
Able to be there, so yeah, that's how it goes
right now.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
And Tactics veteran Rikana Petterson has been named captain and
of the Airpall team for the upcoming and Z season.
Speaker 7 (04:27):
It was a.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Player vote as well, so she definitely has the changing room.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
It's a real honor, honestly. I've been with the Tactics
now for nine seasons and I had a lot of
great captains in my time, so I'm just hoping that
I can do a decent job and bring my own
flavor to it as well.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And that's the sport today. Eleven minutes after seven, let's talk.
South African super Rugby doesn't exist anymore, hasn't for five years,
joining us now former all Black coach coach in South
Africa and those helcyon days, Laurie mains good evening.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Laurie evening, Darcy, how are you very well?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
And it's a it's a big anniversary isn't it five
years since South Africa had a team in Super Rugby?
It doesn't seem like that long.
Speaker 8 (05:15):
Does it?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Since through COVID, the South African's left the setup, how
Miss Dade, do you think.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Well, it doesn't seem that long.
Speaker 9 (05:25):
But I've got to say since COVID, Super rugby's taken
a big leap forward with the introduction of Moana Pacifica
and so on, and.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
In Fiji it's much more a regional.
Speaker 9 (05:41):
Competition now and I think we let South Africa go
out of our minds fairly easily.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Have we missed it as far as the engagement the
exchanges go, because we've seen what South Africa the national
team have done of recent years and they're right at
the top of the tree right now. Are we were
lacking because of a lack of game time with their
super teams?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
No, No, I don't think so at all.
Speaker 9 (06:05):
They're on top of a pile at the moment, much
as the All Blacks were a few years ago when
we had all those really world class players.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
And we were almost unbeatable.
Speaker 9 (06:20):
And I think South Africa's in that moment, in that
position at the moment.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Where they've got very strong players.
Speaker 9 (06:27):
I'll use one example, Ivan Etzabeth, who's arguably the best
lock in the world, or certainly very close to it,
but he must be mid thirties now he's gone over
the hill, and the same with quite a number of
their players that have been there a long time. I'm
not sure they're going to be at their best at
the next World Cup. And we've seen Australia in the
(06:49):
past and the All Blacks for that matter, suffer at
a World Cup because they've tried to keep players there
too long.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And that may be the case with South Africa, but
it's understandable. Such as the quality and the way they
managed to lift themselves for major tournaments. We've all been
watching it, we've all seen it.
Speaker 9 (07:08):
Well, that's the mark of very experienced, mature players. And
obviously they've got to have ability and they've got to
be able to accurately identify the type of rugby that
best suits them. And I think Russi Erasmus, the coach
of South Africa, is a pretty crafty guy. I had
him as captain and one of my teams over there,
(07:31):
and he's clever, he's crafty. Don't always agree with these methods,
but yeah, no, he is getting the best out of
that team at the moment.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
When you look at the traditional strengths of South African
rugby and that's like the massive slabs that they've got
up front. And this is something that New Zealand want
to try and counter that hasn't been lacking in New Zealand,
that lack of big men who play very well on
the type.
Speaker 9 (07:59):
Well, we're big enough in the front row. We I no,
I don't actually think that, you know, I had a
very light All Black pack, you know when we were
performing very well in the ninety five World Cup, and
I think now the way that and we did we
were able to because we sped the game up. Now,
(08:22):
I think with the rule changes, if they're going to
go through to full international rugby and be refereed the
same as they are in our super game, then that's
going to suit the All Blacks and not be so
favorable for big Ford packs like the spring Box have.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Counter to us missing their exchanges up the front. How
much do you think they're missing the fact that we
play this different style of rugby. Do they maybe miss
us more than we miss them?
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Laurie, I would suggest that that would be the case.
Speaker 9 (08:56):
And particularly now that the Australian teams are much stronger
than they've been.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
They've got their act together. It's first time for a
very long time and.
Speaker 9 (09:09):
Our competition has been fiercely contested and it's great to
see the Australian team strong and not being an automatic
or shover, and they're playing some really good rugby too.
So combined with the rule changes and the and Maana
Pacifica and Fiji and the way we're trying to play
(09:31):
the game in our Super competition, rugby's moving forward. I
was getting bored with it previously, to be honest, but
this year I had a bit of a rejuvenation and
you know my attitude to watching games.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Do you think the lack of travel is helping the
competition because you think it was Hakhuari's for a while,
There's sun Wolves, all the South African teams. It was
a destroyer of athletes, wasn't. You can't maintain that, surely.
Speaker 9 (10:05):
And I think I think both the Australian team and
the All Black teams.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Are going to be much better off for it.
Speaker 9 (10:12):
Yes, it was very difficult for those travels, just as
it was you know, with the time zone changes, as well,
and the altitude and everything else, just as it was
for South Africa to come to New Zealand, it was
it was difficult and and disruptive, you know, to their normality.
And I think our competition has moved ahead much faster
(10:37):
because of that.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
And there I think there is another factor.
Speaker 9 (10:41):
I think that our current crop of all blacks and
top level players are going to last longer because it's
not quite the same disruption to their normal lives and
and and definitely their bodies are going to cope with
it better than with all that extra travel.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
The odds have left their game, as you said, and
super Augulya this he has been fantastic halfway through the competition.
She's a rip snort. I mean the Crusaders getting rolled
by Malwana, it's a a story. But the fact that
Australia have just had one of their teams taken away
so they had to concentrate their talent, which is a
small base, that's a huge amount to deal with, it,
(11:20):
isn't it.
Speaker 9 (11:21):
I think it's made a significant difference to them. But
I also think that Joe Smith's method message down.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
To the Australian coach.
Speaker 9 (11:31):
I've got no doubt that he has helped the Australian
super coaches lift their game a bit and certainly the players,
even if only with the Australian players that he's been coaching,
taking the message back to their super teams. But it
is definitely happening, and I think there's quite a number
(11:53):
of Australian players who previously I didn't rate that much
that I'm seeing now is potentially very strong international.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Players anticipation when it comes to spring Box All Black tests.
I suppose it brings a little more to the party
as we're not seeing them all the time, and of
course coming up this year doesn't get much bigger, doesn't
Eden park that unbeaten record, and here comes South Africa.
Do we need a wee bit more prep than them
just coming over to Muggers?
Speaker 9 (12:23):
No, I don't think we need more preparation that. When
you watch some of these super games now, they are
test level intensity and physicality and and and in many
cases played at a lot faster place pace than you
would expect a Test match to be played at. So
(12:44):
you know, I'm not too concerned about it. It may
be another year before this All Black team is getting
to its best We've got to give raise of time,
you know, to get to get everybody in his way
of playing and to develop the new players that he's
had to bring in.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
But I think we'll be ready for them this year.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
The difference in you touched on before, the speed of play,
the interpretation of the rules by Southern Hemisphere Rugby, hoping
maybe that gets transferred internationally. But the way we're running
the game over here, does that tend to a decent
international game. I know you've got a problem with the
(13:25):
way the front row and alike has been adjudicated, and
that's possibly falling right into their trap.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I don't think I don't think it is.
Speaker 9 (13:34):
We've got some pretty skillful, knowledgeable, tough coaches in New
Zealand and the issues that I see with scrummaging, they
will be working on it with the referees, I'm sure,
because there's been too many mistakes made at scrum time
and I don't want to dwell on that now by referees.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
But so many teams use the scrum to.
Speaker 9 (13:57):
Win matches, get penalties, kick it into the corner and
more all over for a trial. I've been going on
about this for a few years and it hasn't improved
this year, but I think it will and I just
hope that our coaches have got a good opportunity to
help coach the referees so that they know what's going
(14:19):
on in the scrum. You know, there's one thing I
would mention here. I think referees have got to have
a little bit more patience at scrum time. There has
been an improvement this year. There's been a number of
scrums getting reset. I think the very nature of scrums
is such that you are going to have to have
accept reset scrums because so often a scrum can go
(14:44):
down or screw or whatever, and referees have been in
the habit of just sticking their arm in the air
and penalizing someone. Well, I think they've got to tolerated
a bit more, warn the players whom they think are
the offenders, and then set another scrum.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
The right call is your call on eighty eighty Sports
to on your home of sports News Talk.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
ZBB seven two is a sports talk on News Talk
ZB former All Blacks head coach coach of the whole Thing,
catch Back and the Day Lori mains, whether we want
them back, whether we've missed them at all, I'm not
sure I have. I know that sounds odd. I definitely
haven't missed crawling out of the scratcher at three in
(15:30):
the morning to watch my beloved Crusaders get absolutely eight
by someone anyone the balls out of Pretoria. Have I
missed all the matches? Have I missed the strength? Have
I missed the aggression between the two teams? Yeah, I've
missed that. I missed it when it's here, but not
when it's away. I think Laurie makes some good points
(15:53):
to missing the long flights missing that. Is it a
chance they've actually missed playing us more than we've missed
playing them? Well, not one hundred percent sure after five years,
though you'd think we'd know by now. It actually struck
me when I saw that this morning. It's been that long.
(16:15):
Really only seems like a couple of three years ago.
Two questions here, oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty?
Is it our game actually weaker without them?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Is a is it.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
A lesser team? Is it a lesser competition? Does it
lack something? And would you bring them back if there
was an opportunity? If I say no to bringing them back?
And I don't think the game is weaker at all.
I think it's developed. So I suppose I've just answered
(16:49):
my own question. Nah, yeah, Nah, stay where you are.
Seven to twenty three lines are open. Oh, eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty would you have them back? And
have we missed them at all? We're talking South African
engagement in Super Rugby. Why I couldn't call it Super
Rugby Pacific anymore if they came back, so I'd have
(17:09):
to change all the branding. That's a good enough reason
to not do it. Your call is coming up next
Text nineteen niney two that CBZBS tracks a standard text
charge and give us a call one hundred and eighty
ten eighty.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
You don't need for the TMO. We've got the breakdowns
on sports Talk call. Oh wait, hundred US Talk s B.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Seventy twenty seven is sports talk? Oh one hundred eighty
ten eighty lines are open them, Darcy, looking forward to
your calls. Should we lure South Africa back to Super Rugby?
Did we miss them at all? Did they miss us?
We gotten better? Have we gotten worse? Let's find out
one hundred and eighty ten eighty your thoughts around Super Rugby.
(18:09):
I haven't missed them from time to time. I have
genuinely well, no, I suppose I don't feel this as
much content to consume over the weekend. It's shorter and
sharper and sweet. Are good?
Speaker 10 (18:21):
The Kevin gooda Darcy?
Speaker 8 (18:24):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I'm good? What's on your mind?
Speaker 7 (18:27):
Hey?
Speaker 10 (18:27):
No tote? You've been briefly talking about the super whole
Super Rugby, the whole Super Rugby thing since before and
since the South Africans. How can I put mildly the
anomaly that's the spring marks previously? Of course, if we
were sensible enough, I've followed Super Rugby since the beginning,
(18:47):
of course since what the South Africans like every fortnight,
it's like, at least it's a case of yeah, I
know what you're up to. You know what I am
up to? And since after, since the whole new, whole,
new revised Super Rugby competition. Now it's the case of
all right, how much do I know about them? Or
how much do they know about us? Did you know
(19:08):
well where I'm kind of coming from?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah? I do, And I think in that situation I
touched on its lawry as people look forward to the
South African who said on clashes even though they've been
beating us a lot more because it's not a regular
occurrence and we want to know and it's more of
a treat as it goes, ah, not these guys rolling
us up the middle again, even though it's only provincial franchises.
(19:32):
So yeah, I get what you're saying there, Kevin.
Speaker 10 (19:35):
Yeah, And of course it's for me. It's like I
still do I do kind of miss my watch my
Blues take on those South Africans on at what three
four in the morning or sometimes on during the Super
Rugby season. Do I climbs it?
Speaker 8 (19:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (19:48):
Sometimes I do.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I miss sometimes getting up. I think the frequency of
play and the amount of games overnight that you felt
compelled to watch and the schedules on us packed anymore,
does that make it more easily consumed.
Speaker 10 (20:05):
Yeah, it's more easy consume now. But for me it's
as just as I've said it. But maybe someone else,
someone else would agree with that. It's that case of
before yeah, we know what you're doing, they know what
we do. Now it's a case of what do I
know what they're doing? Or do they know what we
do it?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
What have you bet to? Yeah? Absolutely, Kevin, thanks very
much for your input. I eight one hundred eighty ten
eighty three phone number nationwide if you'd like to climb
on and miss the South African and Super Rugby. We
lose anything? Have we got worse? Have they got better?
Speaker 11 (20:36):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Eight hundred eighty ten eighty Daniel High, how ya? I'm
going forward. It's the only way to go in this industry,
I tell you yeah.
Speaker 11 (20:46):
My opinion on it, I think the South Africans I
think we do miss them. And my view on it
as they let their players play in the European team,
so they've got four of their Super Rugby teams as
a feeder team. They've got their spring box in Japan,
so there, although it's closer with us now and they're
arguably stronger they've got I think last year they used
(21:08):
close to forty players in their spring box team and
so we just don't have that depth to match them.
So I think year on year it's good. But World
Cup year, I think we're going to struggle with depth.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
The big thing there though Daniel and restI Arrasthmus brought
us up recently. He wanted to try and change the
international season. That's never going to happen, but He cried,
my poor players, they get no breaks. They're up north
in they're down South. This is going to burn them out,
and that they need that depth.
Speaker 11 (21:38):
Because yeah, but they're big infighting in Japan. You know,
Peter steff to toy in Japan that rugby is not
as hard physically. I think everyone that's getting there, but
those guys get a little bit of a break. I
think I think that we should be worried about the
strength of South Africa and our depths as well. And
I think that conversation about letting our players go once
(21:59):
they've had their service to New Zealand, whatever the cap
limit may be. But yeah, we need to be looking
ida for this. And I think the South Africans losing
the South Africans has been an absolute loss. They play
a different style of rugby. I think Fiji and Molana
are starting to bring a different style of rugby to us,
and I think the Australians are as well. But yeah,
(22:20):
I think I worry that we're going to We're going
to get where the gap is growing.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
With that gap, have the Australians improved due to that
whole or have the New Zealand has gotten worse? Has
there been any effects. Do you think directly ond rugby,
Australian rugby.
Speaker 11 (22:38):
Will let us know. The Rugby Championship will be the
test of that. I as an optimist, I like to
think the Australians are getting better. I mean, for rugby's sake,
I honestly would love to see the Australians push us
to for the bleedters Low and I'd love them to
knock South Africa over. But yeah, I think it's probably
halfway between. I think we're getting a little bit weaker
(23:02):
and the Australians have improved. I'll give them that props
to that day. They have improvedt overheels this season and
Super Rugby itself has been incredible to watch this year.
But yeah, I think I think the Rugby Championship this
year will let us know where we sit and then
I think, yeah, we should be potentially could be looking
worried in November.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
It depends how international laws change over the year as
an interpretation of because it could form an advantage of
the All Blacks playing in these different interpretations. Earlier on
at the piece, I think the scariest day, Daniel, the
day that we're all looking toward and faring is the
sixth September this year when the Springboks take on the
All Blacks at Eden Park with that record on the line.
(23:47):
That is a red letter day for New sem and Rugby.
Speaker 11 (23:50):
Absolutely. I mean there's the silver lining there. We lose,
We lose at Eden Park and then we can let
go of that stadium and look for something better.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Oh Daniel, thank you very much for your call. Eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty. It is seven point thirty three.
Some think we missed them. Some think we haven't a
lot of texts coming in on this as well. I'll
rip a couple out there for you. Hardy Darcy, I
missed the sun Walls. That's expanded super able to include
three Japanese teams. They've got the fan base and the
(24:21):
Marni and great stadiums and it's a reasonable time zone,
can it. You are my friend? That is from Roger
in Goon. Thank you very much, Roger Darcy. You are
a great promoter of not saying learnings. Yes, Peter, which
is great, he says, but I want to implore you
(24:41):
to start saying number instead of a mount number of
people players games. Sorry, Peter, it's just right over my
head that there's a there's another frequently abused words in
that shape, and it's few, isn't it? It talks about numbers.
Different story, but Peter, thanks for pointing that out. I
(25:04):
shall attempt to stop saying number instead of amount. No,
start saying number instead of amount. Oh the amount of
times I balls that one up? The gap to South
Africa is bigger. It was all one mishit kick away
from us winning the World Cup. Yeah, I was bugger
(25:27):
all the gap South Africa's bugger? Is he bigger? Well,
if you actually put b U g g r, it
might help you know bugger all?
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (25:39):
What?
Speaker 2 (25:40):
The reason we didn't win the World Cup was because
of an over officious third umpire and the clown with
the whistle in the middle that actually bowed down to
him at Quiescedre was rubbish. I'm not worried about you say, relax,
(26:00):
I'm relaxed about that white. A question though, about the
all blacks and are we better off or worse off
not having them around? I'd love to hear from South
Africans out there, like you know, residents or have moved
over there, become naturalized New Zealanders. Let me know better
or worse product? How do you know anecdotally this year's
(26:22):
competition has been an absolute barn burner, so they have
to say better without twenty five to eight. This is
a sports talk on news talks e B lines Ropen
eight hundred.
Speaker 12 (26:32):
And eighty, ten eighty.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I'm not eventting tied up over this number and amount thing.
I feel told off. I feel seen at fifty five.
It's like fewer and less. You can have less people,
but you can't have less sand. No, you have less sand,
but fewer people. You can't have fewer sand and less people.
(27:12):
Forget about it. Let's go to Dave. I'm just confusing
the issue, mate.
Speaker 8 (27:15):
How are you?
Speaker 7 (27:17):
Yeah? Good, thanks Duffy. I'm talking about the South African rugby.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Not fewer or less good thanks for that, not amount
or number?
Speaker 4 (27:24):
What a thing?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Do we miss them or not?
Speaker 7 (27:27):
Yeah? Absolutely? You know, like when it first happened, I
could see it coming and it's not simple. Well it is.
It's an impact on us, but it's more what it
did for the northern hemisphere rugby sides like you watched England, Ireland,
France get so much stronger, playing as into them because
what was good for us? Was having the real strength
(27:48):
of having South Africa and Australia and New Zealand, you know,
like fighting hard against each other. And when they took
that away, added to the Northern hemispeare teams, took away
from our teams. I guess now we're building by introducing
the specific teams and that's great, but you can't deny
(28:08):
that it was a massive to us.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
What about your enjoyment, Dave? Did it was that you
look forward to me or are you a super geek
or so?
Speaker 7 (28:19):
But then that's not a little bit was taking away
the South African takes from that. But then when also
there was other things that come along, you know, like
COVID and whatever.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
You know.
Speaker 7 (28:29):
More it's more about the impact of the decision and
where that decision came from. And I you know, who
made the decision, Why was it made? You know, I
don't know. But anyway, I'm hoping that we can improve
the Pacific sort of teams and get back to that,
you know, like position where we can at least not
(28:53):
be dominant, but at least keep up. But I really
don't think that we are. I think that it had
a massive impact. As you say, the removal of you
had the opposite opinion, But I think the removal of
South Africa was a dread call thing for us.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
How do we weigh that up? Like what ultimately is
the measure? Is it World Cup success? Is it women
play South Africa and the championship? What's the main.
Speaker 7 (29:21):
It's ultimately as World Cup success, But it's more about
the you know, for us it's the the Pacific, but
for them it's the six or seven or heaventhy nations.
They haven't it, But it's just that including South Africa
and the normal hemisphere teams has you know, like just
brought them up so much that our dominance has has
(29:43):
gone and you know, Australia the good this year, but
they have been pretty average, haven't they? And we've just
been holding our own and that's because directly because of
that decision. In my opinion, just.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah, well that's what it's all about sports talk, people's opinions.
So you stretched the competition back to including South Africa,
you stretch it to Japan, we stretch it back to Hakwaris,
which a fantastic team to have involved. Suddenly you've got
that that turgent and weighty situation of a competition being
played over well several countries, several continents.
Speaker 6 (30:18):
That that wasn't the original thing.
Speaker 7 (30:22):
Southern Hemisphere in Northern Hemisphere.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Well, originally it was you know the nations where the
bottom people just dealt with the travel factor.
Speaker 7 (30:30):
Yeah, but I mean it's what was the decision that
was made to take away South Africa from the Southern
Hemisphere competition and include it in the Northern Hemisphere competition.
Was that about travel? No, it was about the Northern Hemisphere.
Rugby trying to dominate rugby and they knew that by
(30:51):
getting you know, like South Africa into their domestic competitions,
they could improve their lot. And that was at the
detriment of us. But maybe and hopefully what we're left with,
which is improving the Pacific nation might benefit up. I mean,
I hope that's the chase. But let's not lose the
point that you know, Rugby has a group political game
(31:14):
and in my opinion, the whole decision was around money
and the improvement of the normal.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Texts and dave On Matt, we wish you farewell, thanks
very much for your points well made. It is seven
forty four is a sports talk on news Talk ZB
Back to the text line nineteen ninety that is ZBCB
cost your standard text charge does end in our delusion.
If they think Super Rugby has gotten back to since
South Africa left, there aft five quality South African teams
(31:42):
and replace them of the feed gen team a team
from I don't know and the force hot tip. Talk
to any sports fans right now and they ain't watching
Super Rugby. Well I can test that I talked to
lots of sports fans. Something to do with the job
I do I think it is. I think you'll find
that Super Rugby has got people interested again, sat them
(32:06):
around of it, said actually, hold on, this is just
not one way traffic. This is not New Zealand teams
bullying the hapless Australians and pulling apart the Pacific Island representation.
Do you see that in the closeness of a lot
of the games, not all of them? Plainly we talk
of jeopardy. We don't know what's going to happen in
(32:28):
a lot of these games, and some of the results
have been surprising at best, terrifying if you're a Crusaders
fan with what happened with mine a pussy viket. So
we're talking not necessarily sports fans rugby fans, right, So
(32:48):
sports fans might not be climbing right into Super rugby,
but maybe their sport is something different. They might have
their head an American sport. Best of luck to them,
But rugby fans, I think they're enjoying what we're seeing.
I know, I am. We're talking Formula one next, Michael
(33:09):
Lamanato to join us if by a accredited Formula one
writer coming to you from Japan as we look forward
to Suzuka. This is news Talk zib. It's fourteen away
from eight.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
Obviously, it's always very hard taking away someone's you know,
dreams and aspirations. But I think in this instance it
was very very clear. It was something that was very
clear to the engineering side, within the in the team,
just how much Liam was struggling with it all. And
you could see that weight upon his shoulders, and so
you know, the engineers were coming to me very concerned
(33:55):
about it, you know, And at the end of the day,
I think it was the logical thing to do. We
have to take responsibility. I think we asked too much
of him too soon.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Eleven minutes to a there was team principal for redbel
Race and Christian Horner talking about Liam Lawson. And listening
to that was Michael Lamonato, Grand Prix writer Formula One
accredited writer joins us now from Japan. Michael, welcome, great
to catch up again. I find it astonishing that Christian
Horner is trying to tell us that the engineers were
(34:28):
concerned and he made the decision based on that they
should be building a car that can be driven. They're
not psychologists. What a strange excuse and welcome.
Speaker 8 (34:38):
Yes, thanks for having me. And it is a strange excuse.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
It's a really curious situation, sort of unlike any of
even Red Bull's regularly ruthless driver decisions. And that is because,
like you say that, the crux of it is this
car problem, and it's something that Red Bull Racing has
been understanding more and more in the last year. But
because of course it has the benefit of Maxwistappan being
in one of the cars, a generational talent of full
(35:02):
time world champion, he's been able to, more often than not,
with very few exceptions, drive it competitively, and we're getting
the sense actually he's a little bit unhappy that the
team's response to this car, obviously having a taken step
back this year, used to get rid of the other
driver and sort of avoid that problems. Unfortunately, a little
bit wrong place, wrong time for Lean in that sense,
(35:23):
and it's now up to Red Bull Racing to try to,
with varying amounts of success, convince us that actually it
was more on Liam than the car.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
See I ke going to able to drive this thing
and talk about exterior pressure. He wants this seat, He's
been given the seat Honda's home track. They want him
in that seat. The fans want him in that seat. Oh,
here we go. That is maybe too much for some man,
some men to bear.
Speaker 8 (35:49):
Yeah, there's really two ways to look at this.
Speaker 6 (35:50):
Because if we say that Liam was underprepared and you
had a bit of a dodgy preseason with some car
troubled and then less practice in Australia, then it rained
and then China was a sprint weekend, well, so Nowa
doesn't even have any of that.
Speaker 8 (36:02):
He's jumping into this cold with it. He said.
Speaker 6 (36:04):
A couple of simulator sessions today, and emulators don't really
give you the full impression, particularly of the problems this
car has. So he's coming in completely green and that
will count against him. On the other hand, he is
just much more experienced. Fundamentally, he has been preparing for
a Red Bull racing drive, maybe not in this particular car,
but for almost five years. That is his fifth season
in the sport. The experience is something that the Red
(36:26):
Bull actually said when it announced this change it beat it.
It said it was relying on his experience to help.
Speaker 8 (36:32):
Improve the car.
Speaker 6 (36:33):
So while I think he'll he'll get a better jump
on it than Leam will on.
Speaker 8 (36:37):
His first weekend, It's by no means going to be easy.
He's going to have it.
Speaker 6 (36:40):
He's going to have a difficult time, and not least
because the pressure of the home fans.
Speaker 8 (36:44):
They're all very nice and polite, these are not angry fans.
Speaker 6 (36:47):
Is super well informed as well here, but I think
they've reprinted all I'm looking at some now reprinted all
the merchandise in record time to make sure he's got
his Red Bull gear on.
Speaker 8 (36:56):
They're all very excited, so really high pressure situation.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
What do you think Red Bull hope to achieve all
of this marking around, because that's what it is. I
think it's just make meme log fool. Quite frankly, I
don't think they're surviving particularly well in the eyes of fans, writers,
Formula one people globally.
Speaker 6 (37:16):
No, he's an embarrassing situation undeniably for this team, not
just because it's had to make this change, but because
it's sort of point out of its way last year
to say that Sonoda wasn't the man. You know, Christian
Horner spoke in December last year saying, well, you can't
be the bridesmaid forever, and it's essentially time that he
needs to think about moving on, and lo and behold,
not even three months later, about three months later, he's
(37:37):
being inducted to the car. What redbul wants to achieve
out of this obviously wants a driver who can score
points regularly. Now we've already said maybe that's going to
be a bridge too far early days for Sonoda at
a minimum. But the second element hears that it wants
to keep Max fist happened because if the team overall underperforms,
if the second car's not scrowing up points or not
able to back up Max in the races strategically or
(37:58):
in other ways, then there's a real risk. And this
is the rumor that's been rumbling for really a year
now pretty much in Formulu one that Max will consider
ex in his long term contracts. They've got another couple
of years on it and perhaps seeking success elsewhere with
the change of regulations next year.
Speaker 8 (38:13):
So it's not just about red Bull's performance generally.
Speaker 6 (38:16):
That this movie is targeted at. It's about making sure
that it can hold. Really, the only part of the
team that's functioning is intended, which is Max.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
What's happened Michael Lemonato joining us from japan a here
to the formula line, it's Suzuka. They've lost Adrian Newey,
they lost and they've lost other key members of the
staff with Max vers Steppen's departure not looming, but the
shadow is starting to show. This is a team that's
on the back foot there. Dare I say it falling apart?
(38:45):
Things aren't going well for them.
Speaker 6 (38:48):
Yeah, I don't think that's too much of a stretch, pending,
of course, whether or not it can rebound this year, because,
like you say, everything's pointing in one direction at the moment,
the car has taking a step backwards. They've lost several
key members of staff, the biggest of which is of
course Adrian Newi. It's it's lost through sacking largely several drivers,
and if with a leave, there'd be no larger vote
(39:08):
of no confidence in this project. So that's why it
needs all of these things really to succeed. Then you've
got to ask if it can't keep Max, or potentially
even if it let's say he contractually is able to
hold on whatever, if it still ends up in an
ugly situation, you have to start asking questions of management
there because it has been a messy situation fundamentally, regardless
of what the ultimate outcome is in terms of performance
(39:31):
to have for Max. For example, of four drive different driver,
three different teammates in the last four races, you've got
to start asking questions of the way that Christian Horner
and Helmet Marker as well the Red Bull Motus board
advisor's employed directly by the Red Bull company, how they're
approaching the management of this team.
Speaker 8 (39:46):
It's been very successful.
Speaker 6 (39:47):
You cannot deny that this combination has won many championships obviously,
as completed the most dominant season in F one history
in twenty twenty three. But twenty twenty three was only
two years ago for the team to be facing these
problems so soon, some serious questions will have to be
asked if it can't be turned around, and let's.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Get away from that because that has dominated everything and
f one for so long, especially over in New Zealand.
But there's a bigger fight going on and that's the
two top teams right now and this has got fascination,
especially from an Australian point of view with Piastre, which
is this leaning right now between Mercedes and McLaren.
Speaker 8 (40:23):
Yeah, it's at the moment you have to say it's McLaren.
Speaker 6 (40:25):
Mercedes threatens a little bit and have been able to
get some good results, largely through just having clean weekends
and then pretty solid and stable ones in the way
they haven't in the last couple of years, even though
they've had these great highs, being able to dominate a
couple of races. Last year just didn't have the consistency
to really figure in any kind of questions. But this
year they've looked consistent at least, and they're hopeful maybe
(40:46):
they can take another half step forward. They're also hopeful
that McLaren might not be able to progress from here
and that would bring them into it. But at the moment,
as we stand as no doubting that McLaren is the
team to beat in Formula One at the moment. If
we look at the advantage they had in Australia, it
looked pretty significant. In China maybe looked a little bit narrower,
which has given some teams some hope or arriving in
Japan now, of course, which is a tract of the
last two years. McLaren's done very well and it really
(41:09):
suited the philosophy of the cards or high speed corners,
high downforce and a real driver's track, which is to
the benefit of McLaren because it's got two drivers in
Lando Norris and Osco Piastre who were really not necessarily
say at the peak of their powers, because they're still
room for both of them to improve. They're so young,
but performing at a very high level with the team
they've been with for a long time. If you look
at Mercedes or Ferrarians, certainly Red Bull Racing, as we've
(41:31):
talked about, they're all teams that have one established driver,
another driver who's just arrived at the team, or in
Mercedes case, he's still a teenager and completing your school exam.
So you'd have to say that McLaren is still best places.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
And on that, we'll let you get on with your business.
Michael Lemonatou from Age of Formula one I credited writer
Will Say writes for Fox as well. Thanks very much
for your time. Enjoy the weekend like you won't you
lucky bugger. It's three minutes away from eight. It's apt
for sport Stalk Care on New Stalks MB and you'd
have to thanks for producing the program. Thanks to the cause.
(42:04):
The text of the listeners hugely important to this program.
I'm Darcy. I'll catch you tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
For more from sports Talk, Listen live to news Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk zed.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
B seven after seven, good evening. This is a sports
(00:39):
talk on News Talks e B. It is earth Thursday evening,
third of April twenty twenty five. My name is Darcy Waldgrave.
Sport from now through until eight o'clock. I'll try it
to DEV eight. I can't promise, but I will try it.
Bit of motorsport, bit of rugby. That's what we got
up for you. Michael Lamonato, if I a accredited IF
(01:02):
one writer works for Fox as well. I he'll join
us from Suzuka. As we looked toward the Japanese Grand Prix,
which has proved to be a massive talking point in
Formula one circles and Red Bull circles and racing ball circles.
(01:24):
I think you know what we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
You.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
He's been promoted. What's the energy behind it? Right now?
Michael Eliminato joins us first art Laurie Maines is on
the show. Our former All black Head coach spent a
lot of time in the Republic, coach some super teams
in South Africa. It's been five years since we kissed
goodbye to South African involvement in Super Rugby. It was
(01:47):
triggered by a bit of a global lurgie. But they've
never come back, so Laurie's is the game suffered? Have
they suffered? Have we, as anyone actually suffered? Do we
get them back again? Does it matter? Happy anniversary baby
Laurie joining us surely then we'll take your calls. Is
it worth looking at maybe trying to drag South Africa
(02:08):
back into the fold again? Is our game weaker without them?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Like?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Do you miss it? Do you wake up bolt up
right in the middle of a Sunday morning, Go, I
want to see the whole thing. Cat's playing the hut
now and you probably don't. Oh eight hundred eighty ten
eighty the reinclusion of South Africa or are we happy
as a clam without them anywhere? Nearest? I've got some
thoughts on that. I know you'll have some thoughts on that.
(02:34):
Laurie definitely does. He joins us next. But before that,
this today, and it's for today. Christian Horner, principle of
the Red Bull Formula One team, has offered this clumsy
excuse as to why he and the Red Bull Brains
trust gassed Liam Lawson after only two races.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
It was very clear to the engineering side within the
team just how much Liam was struggling with it all.
And you could see that weight upon his shoulders and
so you know, the engineers were coming to me very
concerned about it.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Of course, engine and he is offering psychological advice. Maybe
they should stick tansnering a car that you can drive
returning Blue Bowden. Barrett has been around too long to
let any inevitability of injury affect him too deeply frustrating.
Speaker 6 (03:26):
That's sport, and in terms of injuries, I've had a
pretty good run, So I'm certainly not one to.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Give her head down about those sorts of things.
Speaker 6 (03:36):
Just got to control what I can, and that has
been the previous three weeks.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Honestly, I try, but no confirmation is available around the
owner of that manly background grunt four times at World
at Motocross champion Courtney Duncan has been stopped in her
tracks by her heart. Eight weeks ago, she was overwhelmed
with chest pain. How it checked out. The diagnosis Perry
card ditess a swelling of the major pumps surrounding Tessie.
(04:04):
So she's out of the first round of WMX twenty
twenty five as she recovers.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
And struggling to get through a thirty minute what Blake
session at the moment with low resistance.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So I think reality goes I wouldn't even be.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
Able to be there, so yeah, that's how it goes
right now.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
And Tactics veteran Rikana Petterson has been named captain and
of the Airpall team for the upcoming and Z season.
Speaker 7 (04:27):
It was a.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Player vote as well, so she definitely has the changing room.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
It's a real honor, honestly. I've been with the Tactics
now for nine seasons and I had a lot of
great captains in my time, so I'm just hoping that
I can do a decent job and bring my own
flavor to it as well.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And that's the sport today. Eleven minutes after seven, let's talk.
South African super Rugby doesn't exist anymore, hasn't for five years,
joining us now former all Black coach coach in South
Africa and those helcyon days, Laurie mains good evening.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Laurie evening, Darcy, how are you very well?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
And it's a it's a big anniversary isn't it five
years since South Africa had a team in Super Rugby?
It doesn't seem like that long.
Speaker 8 (05:15):
Does it?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Since through COVID, the South African's left the setup, how
Miss Dade, do you think.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Well, it doesn't seem that long.
Speaker 9 (05:25):
But I've got to say since COVID, Super rugby's taken
a big leap forward with the introduction of Moana Pacifica
and so on, and.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
In Fiji it's much more a regional.
Speaker 9 (05:41):
Competition now and I think we let South Africa go
out of our minds fairly easily.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Have we missed it as far as the engagement the
exchanges go, because we've seen what South Africa the national
team have done of recent years and they're right at
the top of the tree right now. Are we were
lacking because of a lack of game time with their
super teams?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
No, No, I don't think so at all.
Speaker 9 (06:05):
They're on top of a pile at the moment, much
as the All Blacks were a few years ago when
we had all those really world class players.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
And we were almost unbeatable.
Speaker 9 (06:20):
And I think South Africa's in that moment, in that
position at the moment.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Where they've got very strong players.
Speaker 9 (06:27):
I'll use one example, Ivan Etzabeth, who's arguably the best
lock in the world, or certainly very close to it,
but he must be mid thirties now he's gone over
the hill, and the same with quite a number of
their players that have been there a long time. I'm
not sure they're going to be at their best at
the next World Cup. And we've seen Australia in the
(06:49):
past and the All Blacks for that matter, suffer at
a World Cup because they've tried to keep players there
too long.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And that may be the case with South Africa, but
it's understandable. Such as the quality and the way they
managed to lift themselves for major tournaments. We've all been
watching it, we've all seen it.
Speaker 9 (07:08):
Well, that's the mark of very experienced, mature players. And
obviously they've got to have ability and they've got to
be able to accurately identify the type of rugby that
best suits them. And I think Russi Erasmus, the coach
of South Africa, is a pretty crafty guy. I had
him as captain and one of my teams over there,
(07:31):
and he's clever, he's crafty. Don't always agree with these methods,
but yeah, no, he is getting the best out of
that team at the moment.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
When you look at the traditional strengths of South African
rugby and that's like the massive slabs that they've got
up front. And this is something that New Zealand want
to try and counter that hasn't been lacking in New Zealand,
that lack of big men who play very well on
the type.
Speaker 9 (07:59):
Well, we're big enough in the front row. We I no,
I don't actually think that, you know, I had a
very light All Black pack, you know when we were
performing very well in the ninety five World Cup, and
I think now the way that and we did we
were able to because we sped the game up. Now,
(08:22):
I think with the rule changes, if they're going to
go through to full international rugby and be refereed the
same as they are in our super game, then that's
going to suit the All Blacks and not be so
favorable for big Ford packs like the spring Box have.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Counter to us missing their exchanges up the front. How
much do you think they're missing the fact that we
play this different style of rugby. Do they maybe miss
us more than we miss them?
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Laurie, I would suggest that that would be the case.
Speaker 9 (08:56):
And particularly now that the Australian teams are much stronger
than they've been.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
They've got their act together. It's first time for a
very long time and.
Speaker 9 (09:09):
Our competition has been fiercely contested and it's great to
see the Australian team strong and not being an automatic
or shover, and they're playing some really good rugby too.
So combined with the rule changes and the and Maana
Pacifica and Fiji and the way we're trying to play
(09:31):
the game in our Super competition, rugby's moving forward. I
was getting bored with it previously, to be honest, but
this year I had a bit of a rejuvenation and
you know my attitude to watching games.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Do you think the lack of travel is helping the
competition because you think it was Hakhuari's for a while,
There's sun Wolves, all the South African teams. It was
a destroyer of athletes, wasn't. You can't maintain that, surely.
Speaker 9 (10:05):
And I think I think both the Australian team and
the All Black teams.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Are going to be much better off for it.
Speaker 9 (10:12):
Yes, it was very difficult for those travels, just as
it was you know, with the time zone changes, as well,
and the altitude and everything else, just as it was
for South Africa to come to New Zealand, it was
it was difficult and and disruptive, you know, to their normality.
And I think our competition has moved ahead much faster
(10:37):
because of that.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
And there I think there is another factor.
Speaker 9 (10:41):
I think that our current crop of all blacks and
top level players are going to last longer because it's
not quite the same disruption to their normal lives and
and and definitely their bodies are going to cope with
it better than with all that extra travel.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
The odds have left their game, as you said, and
super Augulya this he has been fantastic halfway through the competition.
She's a rip snort. I mean the Crusaders getting rolled
by Malwana, it's a a story. But the fact that
Australia have just had one of their teams taken away
so they had to concentrate their talent, which is a
small base, that's a huge amount to deal with, it,
(11:20):
isn't it.
Speaker 9 (11:21):
I think it's made a significant difference to them. But
I also think that Joe Smith's method message down.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
To the Australian coach.
Speaker 9 (11:31):
I've got no doubt that he has helped the Australian
super coaches lift their game a bit and certainly the players,
even if only with the Australian players that he's been coaching,
taking the message back to their super teams. But it
is definitely happening, and I think there's quite a number
(11:53):
of Australian players who previously I didn't rate that much
that I'm seeing now is potentially very strong international.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Players anticipation when it comes to spring Box All Black tests.
I suppose it brings a little more to the party
as we're not seeing them all the time, and of
course coming up this year doesn't get much bigger, doesn't
Eden park that unbeaten record, and here comes South Africa.
Do we need a wee bit more prep than them
just coming over to Muggers?
Speaker 9 (12:23):
No, I don't think we need more preparation that. When
you watch some of these super games now, they are
test level intensity and physicality and and and in many
cases played at a lot faster place pace than you
would expect a Test match to be played at. So
(12:44):
you know, I'm not too concerned about it. It may
be another year before this All Black team is getting
to its best We've got to give raise of time,
you know, to get to get everybody in his way
of playing and to develop the new players that he's
had to bring in.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
But I think we'll be ready for them this year.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
The difference in you touched on before, the speed of play,
the interpretation of the rules by Southern Hemisphere Rugby, hoping
maybe that gets transferred internationally. But the way we're running
the game over here, does that tend to a decent
international game. I know you've got a problem with the
(13:25):
way the front row and alike has been adjudicated, and
that's possibly falling right into their trap.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I don't think I don't think it is.
Speaker 9 (13:34):
We've got some pretty skillful, knowledgeable, tough coaches in New
Zealand and the issues that I see with scrummaging, they
will be working on it with the referees, I'm sure,
because there's been too many mistakes made at scrum time
and I don't want to dwell on that now by referees.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
But so many teams use the scrum to.
Speaker 9 (13:57):
Win matches, get penalties, kick it into the corner and
more all over for a trial. I've been going on
about this for a few years and it hasn't improved
this year, but I think it will and I just
hope that our coaches have got a good opportunity to
help coach the referees so that they know what's going
(14:19):
on in the scrum. You know, there's one thing I
would mention here. I think referees have got to have
a little bit more patience at scrum time. There has
been an improvement this year. There's been a number of
scrums getting reset. I think the very nature of scrums
is such that you are going to have to have
accept reset scrums because so often a scrum can go
(14:44):
down or screw or whatever, and referees have been in
the habit of just sticking their arm in the air
and penalizing someone. Well, I think they've got to tolerated
a bit more, warn the players whom they think are
the offenders, and then set another scrum.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
The right call is your call on eighty eighty Sports
to on your home of sports News Talk.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
ZBB seven two is a sports talk on News Talk
ZB former All Blacks head coach coach of the whole Thing,
catch Back and the Day Lori mains, whether we want
them back, whether we've missed them at all, I'm not
sure I have. I know that sounds odd. I definitely
haven't missed crawling out of the scratcher at three in
(15:30):
the morning to watch my beloved Crusaders get absolutely eight
by someone anyone the balls out of Pretoria. Have I
missed all the matches? Have I missed the strength? Have
I missed the aggression between the two teams? Yeah, I've
missed that. I missed it when it's here, but not
when it's away. I think Laurie makes some good points
(15:53):
to missing the long flights missing that. Is it a
chance they've actually missed playing us more than we've missed
playing them? Well, not one hundred percent sure after five years,
though you'd think we'd know by now. It actually struck
me when I saw that this morning. It's been that long.
(16:15):
Really only seems like a couple of three years ago.
Two questions here, oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty?
Is it our game actually weaker without them?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Is a is it.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
A lesser team? Is it a lesser competition? Does it
lack something? And would you bring them back if there
was an opportunity? If I say no to bringing them back?
And I don't think the game is weaker at all.
I think it's developed. So I suppose I've just answered
(16:49):
my own question. Nah, yeah, Nah, stay where you are.
Seven to twenty three lines are open. Oh, eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty would you have them back? And
have we missed them at all? We're talking South African
engagement in Super Rugby. Why I couldn't call it Super
Rugby Pacific anymore if they came back, so I'd have
(17:09):
to change all the branding. That's a good enough reason
to not do it. Your call is coming up next
Text nineteen niney two that CBZBS tracks a standard text
charge and give us a call one hundred and eighty
ten eighty.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
You don't need for the TMO. We've got the breakdowns
on sports Talk call. Oh wait, hundred US Talk s B.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Seventy twenty seven is sports talk? Oh one hundred eighty
ten eighty lines are open them, Darcy, looking forward to
your calls. Should we lure South Africa back to Super Rugby?
Did we miss them at all? Did they miss us?
We gotten better? Have we gotten worse? Let's find out
one hundred and eighty ten eighty your thoughts around Super Rugby.
(18:09):
I haven't missed them from time to time. I have
genuinely well, no, I suppose I don't feel this as
much content to consume over the weekend. It's shorter and
sharper and sweet. Are good?
Speaker 10 (18:21):
The Kevin gooda Darcy?
Speaker 8 (18:24):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I'm good? What's on your mind?
Speaker 7 (18:27):
Hey?
Speaker 10 (18:27):
No tote? You've been briefly talking about the super whole
Super Rugby, the whole Super Rugby thing since before and
since the South Africans. How can I put mildly the
anomaly that's the spring marks previously? Of course, if we
were sensible enough, I've followed Super Rugby since the beginning,
(18:47):
of course since what the South Africans like every fortnight,
it's like, at least it's a case of yeah, I
know what you're up to. You know what I am
up to? And since after, since the whole new, whole,
new revised Super Rugby competition. Now it's the case of
all right, how much do I know about them? Or
how much do they know about us? Did you know
(19:08):
well where I'm kind of coming from?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah? I do, And I think in that situation I
touched on its lawry as people look forward to the
South African who said on clashes even though they've been
beating us a lot more because it's not a regular
occurrence and we want to know and it's more of
a treat as it goes, ah, not these guys rolling
us up the middle again, even though it's only provincial franchises.
(19:32):
So yeah, I get what you're saying there, Kevin.
Speaker 10 (19:35):
Yeah, And of course it's for me. It's like I
still do I do kind of miss my watch my
Blues take on those South Africans on at what three
four in the morning or sometimes on during the Super
Rugby season. Do I climbs it?
Speaker 8 (19:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (19:48):
Sometimes I do.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I miss sometimes getting up. I think the frequency of
play and the amount of games overnight that you felt
compelled to watch and the schedules on us packed anymore,
does that make it more easily consumed.
Speaker 10 (20:05):
Yeah, it's more easy consume now. But for me it's
as just as I've said it. But maybe someone else,
someone else would agree with that. It's that case of
before yeah, we know what you're doing, they know what
we do. Now it's a case of what do I
know what they're doing? Or do they know what we
do it?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
What have you bet to? Yeah? Absolutely, Kevin, thanks very
much for your input. I eight one hundred eighty ten
eighty three phone number nationwide if you'd like to climb
on and miss the South African and Super Rugby. We
lose anything? Have we got worse? Have they got better?
Speaker 11 (20:36):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Eight hundred eighty ten eighty Daniel High, how ya? I'm
going forward. It's the only way to go in this industry,
I tell you yeah.
Speaker 11 (20:46):
My opinion on it, I think the South Africans I
think we do miss them. And my view on it
as they let their players play in the European team,
so they've got four of their Super Rugby teams as
a feeder team. They've got their spring box in Japan,
so there, although it's closer with us now and they're
arguably stronger they've got I think last year they used
(21:08):
close to forty players in their spring box team and
so we just don't have that depth to match them.
So I think year on year it's good. But World
Cup year, I think we're going to struggle with depth.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
The big thing there though Daniel and restI Arrasthmus brought
us up recently. He wanted to try and change the
international season. That's never going to happen, but He cried,
my poor players, they get no breaks. They're up north
in they're down South. This is going to burn them out,
and that they need that depth.
Speaker 11 (21:38):
Because yeah, but they're big infighting in Japan. You know,
Peter steff to toy in Japan that rugby is not
as hard physically. I think everyone that's getting there, but
those guys get a little bit of a break. I
think I think that we should be worried about the
strength of South Africa and our depths as well. And
I think that conversation about letting our players go once
(21:59):
they've had their service to New Zealand, whatever the cap
limit may be. But yeah, we need to be looking
ida for this. And I think the South Africans losing
the South Africans has been an absolute loss. They play
a different style of rugby. I think Fiji and Molana
are starting to bring a different style of rugby to us,
and I think the Australians are as well. But yeah,
(22:20):
I think I worry that we're going to We're going
to get where the gap is growing.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
With that gap, have the Australians improved due to that
whole or have the New Zealand has gotten worse? Has
there been any effects. Do you think directly ond rugby,
Australian rugby.
Speaker 11 (22:38):
Will let us know. The Rugby Championship will be the
test of that. I as an optimist, I like to
think the Australians are getting better. I mean, for rugby's sake,
I honestly would love to see the Australians push us
to for the bleedters Low and I'd love them to
knock South Africa over. But yeah, I think it's probably
halfway between. I think we're getting a little bit weaker
(23:02):
and the Australians have improved. I'll give them that props
to that day. They have improvedt overheels this season and
Super Rugby itself has been incredible to watch this year.
But yeah, I think I think the Rugby Championship this
year will let us know where we sit and then
I think, yeah, we should be potentially could be looking
worried in November.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
It depends how international laws change over the year as
an interpretation of because it could form an advantage of
the All Blacks playing in these different interpretations. Earlier on
at the piece, I think the scariest day, Daniel, the
day that we're all looking toward and faring is the
sixth September this year when the Springboks take on the
All Blacks at Eden Park with that record on the line.
(23:47):
That is a red letter day for New sem and Rugby.
Speaker 11 (23:50):
Absolutely. I mean there's the silver lining there. We lose,
We lose at Eden Park and then we can let
go of that stadium and look for something better.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Oh Daniel, thank you very much for your call. Eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty. It is seven point thirty three.
Some think we missed them. Some think we haven't a
lot of texts coming in on this as well. I'll
rip a couple out there for you. Hardy Darcy, I
missed the sun Walls. That's expanded super able to include
three Japanese teams. They've got the fan base and the
(24:21):
Marni and great stadiums and it's a reasonable time zone,
can it. You are my friend? That is from Roger
in Goon. Thank you very much, Roger Darcy. You are
a great promoter of not saying learnings. Yes, Peter, which
is great, he says, but I want to implore you
(24:41):
to start saying number instead of a mount number of
people players games. Sorry, Peter, it's just right over my
head that there's a there's another frequently abused words in
that shape, and it's few, isn't it? It talks about numbers.
Different story, but Peter, thanks for pointing that out. I
(25:04):
shall attempt to stop saying number instead of amount. No,
start saying number instead of amount. Oh the amount of
times I balls that one up? The gap to South
Africa is bigger. It was all one mishit kick away
from us winning the World Cup. Yeah, I was bugger
(25:27):
all the gap South Africa's bugger? Is he bigger? Well,
if you actually put b U g g r, it
might help you know bugger all?
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (25:39):
What?
Speaker 2 (25:40):
The reason we didn't win the World Cup was because
of an over officious third umpire and the clown with
the whistle in the middle that actually bowed down to
him at Quiescedre was rubbish. I'm not worried about you say, relax,
(26:00):
I'm relaxed about that white. A question though, about the
all blacks and are we better off or worse off
not having them around? I'd love to hear from South
Africans out there, like you know, residents or have moved
over there, become naturalized New Zealanders. Let me know better
or worse product? How do you know anecdotally this year's
(26:22):
competition has been an absolute barn burner, so they have
to say better without twenty five to eight. This is
a sports talk on news talks e B lines Ropen
eight hundred.
Speaker 12 (26:32):
And eighty, ten eighty.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I'm not eventting tied up over this number and amount thing.
I feel told off. I feel seen at fifty five.
It's like fewer and less. You can have less people,
but you can't have less sand. No, you have less sand,
but fewer people. You can't have fewer sand and less people.
(27:12):
Forget about it. Let's go to Dave. I'm just confusing
the issue, mate.
Speaker 8 (27:15):
How are you?
Speaker 7 (27:17):
Yeah? Good, thanks Duffy. I'm talking about the South African rugby.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Not fewer or less good thanks for that, not amount
or number?
Speaker 4 (27:24):
What a thing?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Do we miss them or not?
Speaker 7 (27:27):
Yeah? Absolutely? You know, like when it first happened, I
could see it coming and it's not simple. Well it is.
It's an impact on us, but it's more what it
did for the northern hemisphere rugby sides like you watched England, Ireland,
France get so much stronger, playing as into them because
what was good for us? Was having the real strength
(27:48):
of having South Africa and Australia and New Zealand, you know,
like fighting hard against each other. And when they took
that away, added to the Northern hemispeare teams, took away
from our teams. I guess now we're building by introducing
the specific teams and that's great, but you can't deny
(28:08):
that it was a massive to us.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
What about your enjoyment, Dave? Did it was that you
look forward to me or are you a super geek
or so?
Speaker 7 (28:19):
But then that's not a little bit was taking away
the South African takes from that. But then when also
there was other things that come along, you know, like
COVID and whatever.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
You know.
Speaker 7 (28:29):
More it's more about the impact of the decision and
where that decision came from. And I you know, who
made the decision, Why was it made? You know, I
don't know. But anyway, I'm hoping that we can improve
the Pacific sort of teams and get back to that,
you know, like position where we can at least not
(28:53):
be dominant, but at least keep up. But I really
don't think that we are. I think that it had
a massive impact. As you say, the removal of you
had the opposite opinion, But I think the removal of
South Africa was a dread call thing for us.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
How do we weigh that up? Like what ultimately is
the measure? Is it World Cup success? Is it women
play South Africa and the championship? What's the main.
Speaker 7 (29:21):
It's ultimately as World Cup success, But it's more about
the you know, for us it's the the Pacific, but
for them it's the six or seven or heaventhy nations.
They haven't it, But it's just that including South Africa
and the normal hemisphere teams has you know, like just
brought them up so much that our dominance has has
(29:43):
gone and you know, Australia the good this year, but
they have been pretty average, haven't they? And we've just
been holding our own and that's because directly because of
that decision. In my opinion, just.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah, well that's what it's all about sports talk, people's opinions.
So you stretched the competition back to including South Africa,
you stretch it to Japan, we stretch it back to Hakwaris,
which a fantastic team to have involved. Suddenly you've got
that that turgent and weighty situation of a competition being
played over well several countries, several continents.
Speaker 6 (30:18):
That that wasn't the original thing.
Speaker 7 (30:22):
Southern Hemisphere in Northern Hemisphere.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Well, originally it was you know the nations where the
bottom people just dealt with the travel factor.
Speaker 7 (30:30):
Yeah, but I mean it's what was the decision that
was made to take away South Africa from the Southern
Hemisphere competition and include it in the Northern Hemisphere competition.
Was that about travel? No, it was about the Northern Hemisphere.
Rugby trying to dominate rugby and they knew that by
(30:51):
getting you know, like South Africa into their domestic competitions,
they could improve their lot. And that was at the
detriment of us. But maybe and hopefully what we're left with,
which is improving the Pacific nation might benefit up. I mean,
I hope that's the chase. But let's not lose the
point that you know, Rugby has a group political game
(31:14):
and in my opinion, the whole decision was around money
and the improvement of the normal.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Texts and dave On Matt, we wish you farewell, thanks
very much for your points well made. It is seven
forty four is a sports talk on news Talk ZB
Back to the text line nineteen ninety that is ZBCB
cost your standard text charge does end in our delusion.
If they think Super Rugby has gotten back to since
South Africa left, there aft five quality South African teams
(31:42):
and replace them of the feed gen team a team
from I don't know and the force hot tip. Talk
to any sports fans right now and they ain't watching
Super Rugby. Well I can test that I talked to
lots of sports fans. Something to do with the job
I do I think it is. I think you'll find
that Super Rugby has got people interested again, sat them
(32:06):
around of it, said actually, hold on, this is just
not one way traffic. This is not New Zealand teams
bullying the hapless Australians and pulling apart the Pacific Island representation.
Do you see that in the closeness of a lot
of the games, not all of them? Plainly we talk
of jeopardy. We don't know what's going to happen in
(32:28):
a lot of these games, and some of the results
have been surprising at best, terrifying if you're a Crusaders
fan with what happened with mine a pussy viket. So
we're talking not necessarily sports fans rugby fans, right, So
(32:48):
sports fans might not be climbing right into Super rugby,
but maybe their sport is something different. They might have
their head an American sport. Best of luck to them,
But rugby fans, I think they're enjoying what we're seeing.
I know, I am. We're talking Formula one next, Michael
(33:09):
Lamanato to join us if by a accredited Formula one
writer coming to you from Japan as we look forward
to Suzuka. This is news Talk zib. It's fourteen away
from eight.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
Obviously, it's always very hard taking away someone's you know,
dreams and aspirations. But I think in this instance it
was very very clear. It was something that was very
clear to the engineering side, within the in the team,
just how much Liam was struggling with it all. And
you could see that weight upon his shoulders, and so
you know, the engineers were coming to me very concerned
(33:55):
about it, you know, And at the end of the day,
I think it was the logical thing to do. We
have to take responsibility. I think we asked too much
of him too soon.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Eleven minutes to a there was team principal for redbel
Race and Christian Horner talking about Liam Lawson. And listening
to that was Michael Lamonato, Grand Prix writer Formula One
accredited writer joins us now from Japan. Michael, welcome, great
to catch up again. I find it astonishing that Christian
Horner is trying to tell us that the engineers were
(34:28):
concerned and he made the decision based on that they
should be building a car that can be driven. They're
not psychologists. What a strange excuse and welcome.
Speaker 8 (34:38):
Yes, thanks for having me. And it is a strange excuse.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
It's a really curious situation, sort of unlike any of
even Red Bull's regularly ruthless driver decisions. And that is because,
like you say that, the crux of it is this
car problem, and it's something that Red Bull Racing has
been understanding more and more in the last year. But
because of course it has the benefit of Maxwistappan being
in one of the cars, a generational talent of full
(35:02):
time world champion, he's been able to, more often than not,
with very few exceptions, drive it competitively, and we're getting
the sense actually he's a little bit unhappy that the
team's response to this car, obviously having a taken step
back this year, used to get rid of the other
driver and sort of avoid that problems. Unfortunately, a little
bit wrong place, wrong time for Lean in that sense,
(35:23):
and it's now up to Red Bull Racing to try to,
with varying amounts of success, convince us that actually it
was more on Liam than the car.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
See I ke going to able to drive this thing
and talk about exterior pressure. He wants this seat, He's
been given the seat Honda's home track. They want him
in that seat. The fans want him in that seat. Oh,
here we go. That is maybe too much for some man,
some men to bear.
Speaker 8 (35:49):
Yeah, there's really two ways to look at this.
Speaker 6 (35:50):
Because if we say that Liam was underprepared and you
had a bit of a dodgy preseason with some car
troubled and then less practice in Australia, then it rained
and then China was a sprint weekend, well, so Nowa
doesn't even have any of that.
Speaker 8 (36:02):
He's jumping into this cold with it. He said.
Speaker 6 (36:04):
A couple of simulator sessions today, and emulators don't really
give you the full impression, particularly of the problems this
car has. So he's coming in completely green and that
will count against him. On the other hand, he is
just much more experienced. Fundamentally, he has been preparing for
a Red Bull racing drive, maybe not in this particular car,
but for almost five years. That is his fifth season
in the sport. The experience is something that the Red
(36:26):
Bull actually said when it announced this change it beat it.
It said it was relying on his experience to help.
Speaker 8 (36:32):
Improve the car.
Speaker 6 (36:33):
So while I think he'll he'll get a better jump
on it than Leam will on.
Speaker 8 (36:37):
His first weekend, It's by no means going to be easy.
He's going to have it.
Speaker 6 (36:40):
He's going to have a difficult time, and not least
because the pressure of the home fans.
Speaker 8 (36:44):
They're all very nice and polite, these are not angry fans.
Speaker 6 (36:47):
Is super well informed as well here, but I think
they've reprinted all I'm looking at some now reprinted all
the merchandise in record time to make sure he's got
his Red Bull gear on.
Speaker 8 (36:56):
They're all very excited, so really high pressure situation.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
What do you think Red Bull hope to achieve all
of this marking around, because that's what it is. I
think it's just make meme log fool. Quite frankly, I
don't think they're surviving particularly well in the eyes of fans, writers,
Formula one people globally.
Speaker 6 (37:16):
No, he's an embarrassing situation undeniably for this team, not
just because it's had to make this change, but because
it's sort of point out of its way last year
to say that Sonoda wasn't the man. You know, Christian
Horner spoke in December last year saying, well, you can't
be the bridesmaid forever, and it's essentially time that he
needs to think about moving on, and lo and behold,
not even three months later, about three months later, he's
(37:37):
being inducted to the car. What redbul wants to achieve
out of this obviously wants a driver who can score
points regularly. Now we've already said maybe that's going to
be a bridge too far early days for Sonoda at
a minimum. But the second element hears that it wants
to keep Max fist happened because if the team overall underperforms,
if the second car's not scrowing up points or not
able to back up Max in the races strategically or
(37:58):
in other ways, then there's a real risk. And this
is the rumor that's been rumbling for really a year
now pretty much in Formulu one that Max will consider
ex in his long term contracts. They've got another couple
of years on it and perhaps seeking success elsewhere with
the change of regulations next year.
Speaker 8 (38:13):
So it's not just about red Bull's performance generally.
Speaker 6 (38:16):
That this movie is targeted at. It's about making sure
that it can hold. Really, the only part of the
team that's functioning is intended, which is Max.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
What's happened Michael Lemonato joining us from japan a here
to the formula line, it's Suzuka. They've lost Adrian Newey,
they lost and they've lost other key members of the
staff with Max vers Steppen's departure not looming, but the
shadow is starting to show. This is a team that's
on the back foot there. Dare I say it falling apart?
(38:45):
Things aren't going well for them.
Speaker 6 (38:48):
Yeah, I don't think that's too much of a stretch, pending,
of course, whether or not it can rebound this year, because,
like you say, everything's pointing in one direction at the moment,
the car has taking a step backwards. They've lost several
key members of staff, the biggest of which is of
course Adrian Newi. It's it's lost through sacking largely several drivers,
and if with a leave, there'd be no larger vote
(39:08):
of no confidence in this project. So that's why it
needs all of these things really to succeed. Then you've
got to ask if it can't keep Max, or potentially
even if it let's say he contractually is able to
hold on whatever, if it still ends up in an
ugly situation, you have to start asking questions of management
there because it has been a messy situation fundamentally, regardless
of what the ultimate outcome is in terms of performance
(39:31):
to have for Max. For example, of four drive different driver,
three different teammates in the last four races, you've got
to start asking questions of the way that Christian Horner
and Helmet Marker as well the Red Bull Motus board
advisor's employed directly by the Red Bull company, how they're
approaching the management of this team.
Speaker 8 (39:46):
It's been very successful.
Speaker 6 (39:47):
You cannot deny that this combination has won many championships obviously,
as completed the most dominant season in F one history
in twenty twenty three. But twenty twenty three was only
two years ago for the team to be facing these
problems so soon, some serious questions will have to be
asked if it can't be turned around, and let's.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Get away from that because that has dominated everything and
f one for so long, especially over in New Zealand.
But there's a bigger fight going on and that's the
two top teams right now and this has got fascination,
especially from an Australian point of view with Piastre, which
is this leaning right now between Mercedes and McLaren.
Speaker 8 (40:23):
Yeah, it's at the moment you have to say it's McLaren.
Speaker 6 (40:25):
Mercedes threatens a little bit and have been able to
get some good results, largely through just having clean weekends
and then pretty solid and stable ones in the way
they haven't in the last couple of years, even though
they've had these great highs, being able to dominate a
couple of races. Last year just didn't have the consistency
to really figure in any kind of questions. But this
year they've looked consistent at least, and they're hopeful maybe
(40:46):
they can take another half step forward. They're also hopeful
that McLaren might not be able to progress from here
and that would bring them into it. But at the moment,
as we stand as no doubting that McLaren is the
team to beat in Formula One at the moment. If
we look at the advantage they had in Australia, it
looked pretty significant. In China maybe looked a little bit narrower,
which has given some teams some hope or arriving in
Japan now, of course, which is a tract of the
last two years. McLaren's done very well and it really
(41:09):
suited the philosophy of the cards or high speed corners,
high downforce and a real driver's track, which is to
the benefit of McLaren because it's got two drivers in
Lando Norris and Osco Piastre who were really not necessarily
say at the peak of their powers, because they're still
room for both of them to improve. They're so young,
but performing at a very high level with the team
they've been with for a long time. If you look
at Mercedes or Ferrarians, certainly Red Bull Racing, as we've
(41:31):
talked about, they're all teams that have one established driver,
another driver who's just arrived at the team, or in
Mercedes case, he's still a teenager and completing your school exam.
So you'd have to say that McLaren is still best places.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
And on that, we'll let you get on with your business.
Michael Lemonatou from Age of Formula one I credited writer
Will Say writes for Fox as well. Thanks very much
for your time. Enjoy the weekend like you won't you
lucky bugger. It's three minutes away from eight. It's apt
for sport Stalk Care on New Stalks MB and you'd
have to thanks for producing the program. Thanks to the cause.
(42:04):
The text of the listeners hugely important to this program.
I'm Darcy. I'll catch you tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
For more from sports Talk, Listen live to news Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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