April 15, 2025 • 10 mins
Mark Tele'a has announced that he's ditching the All Blacks jersey next year to play in Japan.
But what club is he going to play for? And why leave now?
NZ Herald rugby writer Liam Napier usually has his finger on the pulse so D'Arcy Waldegrave spoke to him on Sportstalk.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk zed Be.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And It's warm. Welcome to New Zealand Herald of Rugby
writer Liam Napier. Big story today around Mark Talia one
of many. It seems to happen with the regular monotony
these players up and going off to Japan. It's almost
not a big story because we kind of knew it
was coming and it happens all the time.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Yet there has been a few in recent time, says
I guess it's been a few. Stay as well, Damien McKenzie.
I suffer oh more. Jordi Barrett's currently on sabbatical, but
he's committed long term. But Mark Talia will be a
big loss. Twenty eight years old, in the prime of
his career. He's an incumbllent starting all Black swing and
one of the more elusive finishers in the world game.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
So I'm presuming that the hawk there was continued employment
for three years. That would have been what dragged him over.
It wouldn't have been conditioned or anything else. It's purely
based on what do I do next?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yesecurity and cash star, So I don't think there's you
can make bones about it, that the chance to set
yourself up from a financial perspective, the independence that that
that brings as a twenty eight year old winger. Wingers
do tend to expire earlier than other players. There's a
(01:27):
history of All Black greats Jeff Wilson, Christian Cullen, Joan Lomu.
None of these guys played for the All Black spelt
beyond the age of twenty seven years old. So wingers
do tend to get surpassed earlier than others. And if
you look at one position where bolters come out of
the woodwork and nihim minas scudder, why sucking the hole low?
(01:49):
Come World Cup time, All Blacks and other teams tend
to select on form. So Mark Talaire has assessed the
lad of the land here, He's going to double his wage
as I understand that going up to Japan to play
for Toyota, Steve Hanson and in Foster's team up there.
So from his he's weighed up adding a few All
(02:09):
Blacks tests, scoring a few more tries potentially, but no
guarantee contesting another World Cup or setting himself up for life.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Difficult decision for him to make, because going to another
World Cup, being a hero there. This is what he's
fought for through North Harbor and the Blues and everywhere
else he's been. So to actually assure all that and
move on to an early retirement that is hard. Is
it all money? Not that you know him, but how
much of that is generated by fear of falling off
(02:40):
that age cliff and not actually being picked anymore? He thought,
I'll run now while I can.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yeah, I think it is the security that I haven't
spoken to Mark himself.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
But it is a brutal industry, professional sport.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Whether you're a coach or a player, you're at the
whim of selection of coaching changes. As a volatile industry,
isn't it. You're a flavor of the month, one minute, gone,
the next and last year. Mark Talia, if you go
back to the starter, Raises Tenure wasn't in favor. He
favored Severe Reese to start the year, and by all
(03:16):
accounts that was one of the sticking points between him
and Leo McDonald. Leo McDonald favored Mark Talier and Raizor
favored Severe Reese. But by the end of the year,
Mark t Lea had forced his way into that squad
he started four of the five Northern tor Tests. He
was exceptional at Twickenham, scored two tries against England, one
(03:36):
of which he pushed off about two or three defenders.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
He is incredibly elusive.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
He's deceptively strong, he's got fast feet, he's got a
good work rate and as you mentioned there, he has
been a late bloomer. He had to really scrap and
fight and work hard at his game. Coming from West Aukland,
he spent three years with North Harbor before he actually
cracked the Blues, but he was an instant hit when
he cracked the All Blacks in twenty twenty two. He
(04:05):
was the World Player Breakthrough Player of the Year at
following the twenty twenty three World Cup, so he's recognized
globally as a game breaker and he will be a
great get for Toyota in Japan.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Not being released by twyde in Japan yet, but that's
kind of typical of Japanese clubs. They won't say anything
until all the tea's are crossed and the eyes are
dotted and everything else is up and running. So we're
sure that it's there. Because the Instagram post from Mark
didn't mention where he's going and just said Japan.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, there's certain protocols in Japan that have to be followed.
Tick the boxes, and it's quite regimented and they like
to do things their way and announce it on their channels.
The French quite similar in that regards. But yeah, New
sort of leaked out at the back end of last
week that he was likely to leave, and Mark's confirmed
that today. So I'd be very surprised if it doesn't
(05:01):
go up to Japan and link with his form More
Black coaches. Ian Foster was a big fan of his
and he's obviously gone up there to Toyota this year,
so I've got no doubt that that connection played a
big part in Mark leaving and setting himself up.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Is he an All Black ever again or is that
ship sailed?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I think if you're raisy, you're probably looking to move on, aren't.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Mark's available by all accounts until the back end of
this year November.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
I think it is before he has to join his.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Japanese club, So he could play France in July when
they come out here. He could play the Rugby Championship,
could play a part.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
In the Northern Tour.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
But you're probably looking at to move on and invest
in others, and your two years out from a World Cup,
you want to be formulated, starting to build plans around
your outside backs and solidify some combinations. So there's a
real chance he has played his last test.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Who replaces him?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
There?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Are you shake a tree? A winger is going to
fall out of it? We've got so many in your film.
We're so lucky in that twenty seven year old Cliff Drop.
We've always got someone that we can replace and we've
had it. You mentioned Nihi Miller's scudder came here to
know where before? Where do we go for this year
with all black wingers. You've got Severe Reese still floating
about Caleb Clarker with a challenge in there. And then
(06:20):
the list keeps going. There's a number of players who
do we like currently? Is it a like for like
replacement or they just find the next best wing or
what's the deal?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
It's probably not a like for like replacement.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Mark's a very unique character and the way he plays
the game, you're very very deceptive to look at him.
He doesn't look fast or strong, or he's quite slight
to build. But there's nobody out there quite like him,
so it will be a bit different. I think Caleb
Clark's a lock on the left wing. He is the
(06:51):
incumbent's left winger by the end of the year last
year really established his presence there. And then you are
probably looking at Severe Reese, who has been good for
the Crusaders this year. Schaffey Huckey is another guy. He
was a surprising inclusion his injury cover and the All
Blacks last year. There's suggestions of Crusaders bias around his inclusions,
(07:12):
but he has been really strong on the wing for
the Crusaders when he's played this season. And then you've
got guys like twenty there's two twenty two year old
prospects in the mix on the fringe anyway. Caleb Tongueytail
has been a revelation for the Highlanders this year, and
Machis Springer at the Crusaders is in good form.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
And then if you're looking for power options.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
You've got guys like Kenny Naholo or a Tavatavanaua, although
he's playing in the midfield and his forms dipped a
little bit, so it depends the type of winger that
raises looking for. Does he want a fast finisher. Does
he want another power wing to complement Caleb Clark. You've
also got Lesterfying a Nuoku coming back from France, and he,
(07:53):
by all accounts, is going to be available from the
Rugby Championship onwards in August, having signed for the Crusaders
next year.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
He's predominantly played center for too line.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Up in France the past two years, but has played
as well for the Crusaders, So a lot of options
there does It's going to be interesting to see which
way they go.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Liam. You touched on the possibility of a Crusader's bias
with Scott Robertson. I don't know how much truth there
is to that. If there is, I understand because plainly
he's coast heap of these guys, so he knows what
he can get out of them. But do you think
there's any traction in that suspicion that he is tending
(08:32):
toward red and black? Is it a fair accusation?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I don't know if it's fear does, but it's certainly
a perception that's out there, and I think not just
among fans and punters, I think among certain players if
they're not picked and there's a Crusader favorite Chaffee.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Hackey was a real.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Standout because there were wingers out there performing much better
than him at the time, and New Zealand's never short
of outside backs, so that was one selection that really
turned heads. While he didn't play for the All Blacks,
even been called into the squad ahead of a number
of others, I know put a few noses out of joint,
but it's raised his team. He can select who he
(09:10):
wants and look, this year, Shafey Hackey has played out
of his skin at times, payed very well for the Crusaders,
so his talent has clearly been identified, not just by Razor.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
But others in that coaching group as well.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
They brought him in and he's come back to the
Crusaders this year and really performed and justify that selection
to a degree. So all Black all coaches live and
die by their selections, don't they. And you're right that
they perhaps there's an inherent bias to players they know
and know their strengths, know their talents that they've worked
with before.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
But I don't know if.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
You could say out and out there is a Crusader's bias,
but that perception is definitely out there in the rugby community.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Happened with Scott Barrett and I remember simply saying, Scott Barrett,
he knows exactly what he does, and Scott Robinson knows
exactly what he does. Of course he's going to pick him.
It's an absolute no brainer. It folded it in the
last couple of weeks. Check out Scooter over the weekend.
I think everything is a okay and I Matt Liam,
thanks very much as always for your time and intel
(10:14):
jeerus does.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk zed Be.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And It's warm. Welcome to New Zealand Herald of Rugby
writer Liam Napier. Big story today around Mark Talia one
of many. It seems to happen with the regular monotony
these players up and going off to Japan. It's almost
not a big story because we kind of knew it
was coming and it happens all the time.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Yet there has been a few in recent time, says
I guess it's been a few. Stay as well, Damien McKenzie.
I suffer oh more. Jordi Barrett's currently on sabbatical, but
he's committed long term. But Mark Talia will be a
big loss. Twenty eight years old, in the prime of
his career. He's an incumbllent starting all Black swing and
one of the more elusive finishers in the world game.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
So I'm presuming that the hawk there was continued employment
for three years. That would have been what dragged him over.
It wouldn't have been conditioned or anything else. It's purely
based on what do I do next?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yesecurity and cash star, So I don't think there's you
can make bones about it, that the chance to set
yourself up from a financial perspective, the independence that that
that brings as a twenty eight year old winger. Wingers
do tend to expire earlier than other players. There's a
(01:27):
history of All Black greats Jeff Wilson, Christian Cullen, Joan Lomu.
None of these guys played for the All Black spelt
beyond the age of twenty seven years old. So wingers
do tend to get surpassed earlier than others. And if
you look at one position where bolters come out of
the woodwork and nihim minas scudder, why sucking the hole low?
(01:49):
Come World Cup time, All Blacks and other teams tend
to select on form. So Mark Talaire has assessed the
lad of the land here, He's going to double his wage
as I understand that going up to Japan to play
for Toyota, Steve Hanson and in Foster's team up there.
So from his he's weighed up adding a few All
(02:09):
Blacks tests, scoring a few more tries potentially, but no
guarantee contesting another World Cup or setting himself up for life.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Difficult decision for him to make, because going to another
World Cup, being a hero there. This is what he's
fought for through North Harbor and the Blues and everywhere
else he's been. So to actually assure all that and
move on to an early retirement that is hard. Is
it all money? Not that you know him, but how
much of that is generated by fear of falling off
(02:40):
that age cliff and not actually being picked anymore? He thought,
I'll run now while I can.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yeah, I think it is the security that I haven't
spoken to Mark himself.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
But it is a brutal industry, professional sport.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Whether you're a coach or a player, you're at the
whim of selection of coaching changes. As a volatile industry,
isn't it. You're a flavor of the month, one minute, gone,
the next and last year. Mark Talia, if you go
back to the starter, Raises Tenure wasn't in favor. He
favored Severe Reese to start the year, and by all
(03:16):
accounts that was one of the sticking points between him
and Leo McDonald. Leo McDonald favored Mark Talier and Raizor
favored Severe Reese. But by the end of the year,
Mark t Lea had forced his way into that squad
he started four of the five Northern tor Tests. He
was exceptional at Twickenham, scored two tries against England, one
(03:36):
of which he pushed off about two or three defenders.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
He is incredibly elusive.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
He's deceptively strong, he's got fast feet, he's got a
good work rate and as you mentioned there, he has
been a late bloomer. He had to really scrap and
fight and work hard at his game. Coming from West Aukland,
he spent three years with North Harbor before he actually
cracked the Blues, but he was an instant hit when
he cracked the All Blacks in twenty twenty two. He
(04:05):
was the World Player Breakthrough Player of the Year at
following the twenty twenty three World Cup, so he's recognized
globally as a game breaker and he will be a
great get for Toyota in Japan.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Not being released by twyde in Japan yet, but that's
kind of typical of Japanese clubs. They won't say anything
until all the tea's are crossed and the eyes are
dotted and everything else is up and running. So we're
sure that it's there. Because the Instagram post from Mark
didn't mention where he's going and just said Japan.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, there's certain protocols in Japan that have to be followed.
Tick the boxes, and it's quite regimented and they like
to do things their way and announce it on their channels.
The French quite similar in that regards. But yeah, New
sort of leaked out at the back end of last
week that he was likely to leave, and Mark's confirmed
that today. So I'd be very surprised if it doesn't
(05:01):
go up to Japan and link with his form More
Black coaches. Ian Foster was a big fan of his
and he's obviously gone up there to Toyota this year,
so I've got no doubt that that connection played a
big part in Mark leaving and setting himself up.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Is he an All Black ever again or is that
ship sailed?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I think if you're raisy, you're probably looking to move on, aren't.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Mark's available by all accounts until the back end of
this year November.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
I think it is before he has to join his.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Japanese club, So he could play France in July when
they come out here. He could play the Rugby Championship,
could play a part.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
In the Northern Tour.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
But you're probably looking at to move on and invest
in others, and your two years out from a World Cup,
you want to be formulated, starting to build plans around
your outside backs and solidify some combinations. So there's a
real chance he has played his last test.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Who replaces him?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
There?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Are you shake a tree? A winger is going to
fall out of it? We've got so many in your film.
We're so lucky in that twenty seven year old Cliff Drop.
We've always got someone that we can replace and we've
had it. You mentioned Nihi Miller's scudder came here to
know where before? Where do we go for this year
with all black wingers. You've got Severe Reese still floating
about Caleb Clarker with a challenge in there. And then
(06:20):
the list keeps going. There's a number of players who
do we like currently? Is it a like for like
replacement or they just find the next best wing or
what's the deal?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
It's probably not a like for like replacement.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Mark's a very unique character and the way he plays
the game, you're very very deceptive to look at him.
He doesn't look fast or strong, or he's quite slight
to build. But there's nobody out there quite like him,
so it will be a bit different. I think Caleb
Clark's a lock on the left wing. He is the
(06:51):
incumbent's left winger by the end of the year last
year really established his presence there. And then you are
probably looking at Severe Reese, who has been good for
the Crusaders this year. Schaffey Huckey is another guy. He
was a surprising inclusion his injury cover and the All
Blacks last year. There's suggestions of Crusaders bias around his inclusions,
(07:12):
but he has been really strong on the wing for
the Crusaders when he's played this season. And then you've
got guys like twenty there's two twenty two year old
prospects in the mix on the fringe anyway. Caleb Tongueytail
has been a revelation for the Highlanders this year, and
Machis Springer at the Crusaders is in good form.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
And then if you're looking for power options.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
You've got guys like Kenny Naholo or a Tavatavanaua, although
he's playing in the midfield and his forms dipped a
little bit, so it depends the type of winger that
raises looking for. Does he want a fast finisher. Does
he want another power wing to complement Caleb Clark. You've
also got Lesterfying a Nuoku coming back from France, and he,
(07:53):
by all accounts, is going to be available from the
Rugby Championship onwards in August, having signed for the Crusaders
next year.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
He's predominantly played center for too line.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Up in France the past two years, but has played
as well for the Crusaders, So a lot of options
there does It's going to be interesting to see which
way they go.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Liam. You touched on the possibility of a Crusader's bias
with Scott Robertson. I don't know how much truth there
is to that. If there is, I understand because plainly
he's coast heap of these guys, so he knows what
he can get out of them. But do you think
there's any traction in that suspicion that he is tending
(08:32):
toward red and black? Is it a fair accusation?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I don't know if it's fear does, but it's certainly
a perception that's out there, and I think not just
among fans and punters, I think among certain players if
they're not picked and there's a Crusader favorite Chaffee.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Hackey was a real.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Standout because there were wingers out there performing much better
than him at the time, and New Zealand's never short
of outside backs, so that was one selection that really
turned heads. While he didn't play for the All Blacks,
even been called into the squad ahead of a number
of others, I know put a few noses out of joint,
but it's raised his team. He can select who he
(09:10):
wants and look, this year, Shafey Hackey has played out
of his skin at times, payed very well for the Crusaders,
so his talent has clearly been identified, not just by Razor.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
But others in that coaching group as well.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
They brought him in and he's come back to the
Crusaders this year and really performed and justify that selection
to a degree. So all Black all coaches live and
die by their selections, don't they. And you're right that
they perhaps there's an inherent bias to players they know
and know their strengths, know their talents that they've worked
with before.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
But I don't know if.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
You could say out and out there is a Crusader's bias,
but that perception is definitely out there in the rugby community.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Happened with Scott Barrett and I remember simply saying, Scott Barrett,
he knows exactly what he does, and Scott Robinson knows
exactly what he does. Of course he's going to pick him.
It's an absolute no brainer. It folded it in the
last couple of weeks. Check out Scooter over the weekend.
I think everything is a okay and I Matt Liam,
thanks very much as always for your time and intel
(10:14):
jeerus does.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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