April 24, 2025 • 14 mins
New Zealand Cricket is going to invest in a team in the USA.
The national body is getting a stake in one of the Major League Cricket franchises.
NZC CEO Scott Weenink explained to D'Arcy Waldegrave why they're doing this on Sportstalk.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk z'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
All right, let's talk cricket to New Zealand Cricketer heading
on in two Major League Cricket T twenty franchise cricket
in the United States of America. We've talked about now
the CEO of New Zealand Cricket, Scott owen It who
joins us.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello Scott, Hello Darcy? How are you? A good?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Big day for New Zealand Cricket And that's probably an
understatement the announcement this morning around engagement with the American
League when it comes to T twenty massive, How big
is this for the organization's got?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, it's big.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
It's really exciting where we're very excited about the opportunity
and you know what it's going to present to New
Zealand Cricket and the wider cricket network for sure.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Where did it come from? Who initiated this? Was yourself
or the franchise holders in the States.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Yeah, So look, the original thought around this came up
the middle of last year when we were putting together
our five year strategic plan and we realized that you know,
with potential pressure on broadcasting revenue and my sc distributions.
We needed to look at other ways to diversify our
revenue stack, and one of the one of the thoughts was,
(01:26):
you know, do we look at investing in overseas leagues
such as the MLC And that was kind of the
obvious one because it's the US, you know, it's close
to New.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Zealand, it's a growing league.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
So I then, on the back of that, approached the
founders of Major League Cricket about four months ago to
see what opportunities they were. As it turned out that
had actually been hoping to speak to us, and so, yeah,
we first started talking about it four months ago. It
accelerated from there really to where we are today and
(01:58):
sort of announcing announcing the deal.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
They launched Pro Cricket a few years ago only lasted
a season. I'm presuming you've done the necessary work behind
this what happened to Pro Cricket, because would be an
awful shame if this dissipated like that did.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Yeah, I mean Major League Cricket sort of on a
different footing, you know this, they're coming up to their
third year. The league itself is sort of in a
break even position. The franchises themselves have got some very
strong backers, including you know IPL loaners, so it's in
a different position to that other league. We also think
cricket in the US is set to really take off
(02:36):
on the back of you know, the World Cup that
was there last year, the twenty twenty eight Olympics, which
is going to be in Los Angeles. So we think
there's a real opportunity for cricket, and in particular Major.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
League cricket to go well in the US in future.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Of course, the US have got a major advantage compared
to other sports that aren't baseball, basketball and football getting
in and the fact the xpact population in the United
States of America could probably feed the game of cricket,
such as the size Scott.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
I mean, look, it would be great for cricket to
aim to be become one of the sort of major
sports in the US, but the reality is, as you suggest,
that's not actually necessary for it to be successful. There's
twenty five million South Asian diaspora in the US who
are cricket fans, and these are all very well held people.
(03:30):
So the actual market already for cricket in the US
is very large and very lucrative. So we'll just be
tapping into that and trying to help grow that.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
What did the true North sports fentures may be gone
on partnership with this is what v Janes samir Because
they've got rights to bring in some new franchises. What
do they see in New Zealand Cricket? Why would they
engage with you guys?
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Essentially because of our trap record in producing world class
cricketers and world class cricket teams. They see that we've
been able to do that off a small player base
and limited financial resources compared to our competitors, and thought
that that match with what they're trying to create, you know,
(04:16):
with these two franchises, but also with cricket in the US.
And then that combined with some of their other investors
such as the San Francisco forty nine ers and some
of these very wealthy tech titans. They saw the combination
of New Zealand Cricket being ow to provide the high
performance cricket expertise together with the expertise being brought by
(04:38):
American investors.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
They saw that as a really good combination.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Were joined by Scott Weening, CEO of New Zealand Cricket.
We talk about investment and what shape does this tape take.
I'm presuming there is a financial outlay, but there must
be other levels as well. What do you have to
bring to the party. What have you brought to the
party to bring this partnership into action?
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Yeah, look, there's two. There's essentially two elements to it.
One is we will be being paid a service fee
for providing high performance services to the franchise. So in
other words, we'll providing the coaches, the backgroom staff, and
sports staff, management, physios, et cetera, and we'll fee for that.
(05:22):
That fee will be made up of cash plus a
sweet equity component. And then we've also been given the
opportunity to invest and take an equity stake in the
holding company that holds the rights to both a franchise
in twenty twenty seven, which will likely be based in
either Atlanta, Toronto or a major city like that, and
(05:44):
then also one in twenty thirty one, which is likely
to be based in someone like San Francisco.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
So two key elements to it.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
It's only six teams deep so far. The potential for expansion.
Where do you think this goes? How big could this
league become? Score?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yeah, So there'll be two teams added in twenty twenty seven,
one of which will be the team that we're partnering
with or supporting, and then another one which.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I believe will be based in Chicago.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
And then in twenty thirty one there will be two
more teams added, one which will be the one that
again that we're supporting, and then another one. So as
I understand it, ten is going to be the maximum,
and that'll be the last two will be added in
twenty thirty one.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Where's the profit and what are the pitfalls? You would
have done your due diligence, I'm sure over that four months,
But where could it all fade away, disappear and end
up being a porn investment? And in turn the profit
margins where do they sit? How long do you expect
before you start taking some income out of this league?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Will be taking income immediately because we're getting paid for
our high performance services, So we will be taking a
seven figure sum from that immediately. As I say, part
of that will go will be sweat equity that will
go into the inequity investment.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
But we'll be making money out of this straight away.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Which is you know, one of the things that we're
most pleased about in terms of risks. I mean, look,
there's always risks and investments, but we think, you know,
we've managed to kind of manage what could be potential
downside because we're you know, we're getting paid a service
fee as well as that equity component. And also looking
(07:31):
at the investors that we're partnering with, they have track
records of producer standing up growing very very successful businesses.
So we're really comfortable from that point of view. But
you know, look, nothing's without risk.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Obviously when you look at the players involved, the coaching staff,
everybody that's going to actually have to go and set
foot and set up camp over in America. One of
the Newsillant Cricket Players Association had to say about that,
and of course coaching staff and other stuff. Plainly you've
approached them, you've talked to them about that. What's their
input being Scott.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Yeah, from a coaching management and high performance staff perspective,
they will be New Zealand staff members who will go
across and essentially be campdon in the US for between
four and six weeks during the course of the tournament.
We will then have you know, players who are involved
in the franchise across in New Zealand during our season.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
So not much change is there.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
And my expectation and certainly the reaction from internally with
the New Zealand staff has been everyone putting their hand
up and wanting to get involved. So that's a real
positive and we see that as a great development pathway
for that group. And then in terms of the players,
you know, obviously we can't make commitments in terms of
the players. Our expectation is that, you know, there will
(08:51):
be a heavy New Zealand influence in terms of the
player group, but that will be part of a separate
contracting arrangement between players and the franchise.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
But there is a want and an acceptance to this
from the Cricket Players Association.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Yeah, So the players I have spoken to are incredibly
excited about it. And when we met with these founders
in Dubai, you know, we introduce into a number of
Black Caps at the time, and so they see this
as an incredible positive because it's simply going to create
further opportunities for Black black Caps and other major association
(09:29):
players to you know, to play in franchise cricket in
the US, So there.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Will be major names involved in New Zealand test odin
T twenty campaigns that will be buying into this and
I suppose the perfect world.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Yeah, yeah, Look, our expectation is that there will be
you know, a heavy influence of New black Caps playing
in this franchise and also other teams and Major League cricket.
But again that sort of subject to separate sort of
contracting arrangements, and certainly, you know, our expectation is that they,
(10:03):
you know, our contracted players will still be prioritized as
in playing for New Zealand over any franchise arrangements.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
What does this mean for the Super Smash Because New
Zealand Cricket were fairly adamant that they're happy with the
production line that the Super Smash provides and the way
it does bring players up to speed and didn't really
want to move toward the Big Bash. But this suggests
to me that that is an ever changing ground, if
(10:30):
you will.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
So we see this as a positive for the Super
Smash and other New Zealand competitions because we will be
generating separate revenue that we're able to use to invest
in those competitions, so we only started as a positive
in that respect. In terms of the Super Smash itself,
you know that we continue to look at what we
should be doing with that. You know, should we be
(10:52):
privatizing that, should we be set up franchises, should we
be thinking about putting the team into the Big Bash?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
You know, all of those things are still a consideration.
You know, the.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Super Smash remains a very very good tournament, high qual cricket,
and we're already pleased with that, but it evolves. We
need to continue to evolve in our thinking around what
we do with the Super Smash. You know is you
know is critical and it's it's you know, a top
of thought.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Broadcast rights, Who gets to watch this? How much is
it going to cost? Is it going to be online?
It's Sky going to pick it up. You thought through that.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
So Sky picked up Major League Cricket last year.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
So that won't change.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
And expect I don't know if Sky have picked it
up this coming year. I assume those negotiations are still
still going on. Once there's a New Zealand flavor to it,
I think there'll probably be more of an interest from
New Zealand fans in watching Major League Cricket because the
timing is.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Actually quite good.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
So my expectation is that it'll be picked up by
Sky or Stream or perhaps even TV and Z you
know eventually.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And finishing it all off Scott when you can think
so much for your time and so always let's look
at the wider picture of the international cricket at schedule.
Nevis is still well up for debate. There's lots of
negotiating going on about where it sits, what the prominent
columns are for World cricket, how does that fit into
(12:17):
ODI bilateral series, that the Test series and the like,
if you've done much work in that space, and presending
you have, because that's very much what World Cricket are
looking at.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Yeah, I mean, look, obviously the World Cricket Association came
up with a report on it recently and the ICC
are talking about it constantly.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
So there's a.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Real focus on the cricket calendar and trying to ensure
that international cricket and these domestic T twenty franchises can
complement each other. So again that is top of mind
at the ICC, and I would expect, you know, there
will be some movement in that respect and trying to
(12:55):
rationalize the calendar to make international cricket and these domestic
leagues work better together, but also more particularly to ensure
that international cricket has context and jeopardy in all the
series that are played, to keep that attraction for players,
fans and broadcasters.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Was the editor, Lawrence Booth. Is he sitting at the
table with all these changes?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah? I mean, look, every everyone has a view.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
The English obviously have a have a slightly drawn just
view of the World Test Championship because I haven't been
able to make the finals.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
That's probably a little undere.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
But everyone has a view, which which you know, which
is great because it just shows the interesting cricket. Look,
if you could wave a magic wand and create a
you know, a calendar that works for everyone, that would
be great. It is challenging, but there's absolutely a desire,
I think, you know, on behalf of all parties to
try and work out how they best get a calendar
(13:57):
together and best grow the game of cricket across the board,
because cricket is growing and we just want to make
sure it doesn't start Cannon bline itself.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
b from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on
iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk z'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
All right, let's talk cricket to New Zealand Cricketer heading
on in two Major League Cricket T twenty franchise cricket
in the United States of America. We've talked about now
the CEO of New Zealand Cricket, Scott owen It who
joins us.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello Scott, Hello Darcy? How are you? A good?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Big day for New Zealand Cricket And that's probably an
understatement the announcement this morning around engagement with the American
League when it comes to T twenty massive, How big
is this for the organization's got?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, it's big.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
It's really exciting where we're very excited about the opportunity
and you know what it's going to present to New
Zealand Cricket and the wider cricket network for sure.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Where did it come from? Who initiated this? Was yourself
or the franchise holders in the States.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Yeah, So look, the original thought around this came up
the middle of last year when we were putting together
our five year strategic plan and we realized that you know,
with potential pressure on broadcasting revenue and my sc distributions.
We needed to look at other ways to diversify our
revenue stack, and one of the one of the thoughts was,
(01:26):
you know, do we look at investing in overseas leagues
such as the MLC And that was kind of the
obvious one because it's the US, you know, it's close
to New.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Zealand, it's a growing league.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
So I then, on the back of that, approached the
founders of Major League Cricket about four months ago to
see what opportunities they were. As it turned out that
had actually been hoping to speak to us, and so, yeah,
we first started talking about it four months ago. It
accelerated from there really to where we are today and
(01:58):
sort of announcing announcing the deal.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
They launched Pro Cricket a few years ago only lasted
a season. I'm presuming you've done the necessary work behind
this what happened to Pro Cricket, because would be an
awful shame if this dissipated like that did.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Yeah, I mean Major League Cricket sort of on a
different footing, you know this, they're coming up to their
third year. The league itself is sort of in a
break even position. The franchises themselves have got some very
strong backers, including you know IPL loaners, so it's in
a different position to that other league. We also think
cricket in the US is set to really take off
(02:36):
on the back of you know, the World Cup that
was there last year, the twenty twenty eight Olympics, which
is going to be in Los Angeles. So we think
there's a real opportunity for cricket, and in particular Major.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
League cricket to go well in the US in future.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Of course, the US have got a major advantage compared
to other sports that aren't baseball, basketball and football getting
in and the fact the xpact population in the United
States of America could probably feed the game of cricket,
such as the size Scott.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
I mean, look, it would be great for cricket to
aim to be become one of the sort of major
sports in the US, but the reality is, as you suggest,
that's not actually necessary for it to be successful. There's
twenty five million South Asian diaspora in the US who
are cricket fans, and these are all very well held people.
(03:30):
So the actual market already for cricket in the US
is very large and very lucrative. So we'll just be
tapping into that and trying to help grow that.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
What did the true North sports fentures may be gone
on partnership with this is what v Janes samir Because
they've got rights to bring in some new franchises. What
do they see in New Zealand Cricket? Why would they
engage with you guys?
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Essentially because of our trap record in producing world class
cricketers and world class cricket teams. They see that we've
been able to do that off a small player base
and limited financial resources compared to our competitors, and thought
that that match with what they're trying to create, you know,
(04:16):
with these two franchises, but also with cricket in the US.
And then that combined with some of their other investors
such as the San Francisco forty nine ers and some
of these very wealthy tech titans. They saw the combination
of New Zealand Cricket being ow to provide the high
performance cricket expertise together with the expertise being brought by
(04:38):
American investors.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
They saw that as a really good combination.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Were joined by Scott Weening, CEO of New Zealand Cricket.
We talk about investment and what shape does this tape take.
I'm presuming there is a financial outlay, but there must
be other levels as well. What do you have to
bring to the party. What have you brought to the
party to bring this partnership into action?
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Yeah, look, there's two. There's essentially two elements to it.
One is we will be being paid a service fee
for providing high performance services to the franchise. So in
other words, we'll providing the coaches, the backgroom staff, and
sports staff, management, physios, et cetera, and we'll fee for that.
(05:22):
That fee will be made up of cash plus a
sweet equity component. And then we've also been given the
opportunity to invest and take an equity stake in the
holding company that holds the rights to both a franchise
in twenty twenty seven, which will likely be based in
either Atlanta, Toronto or a major city like that, and
(05:44):
then also one in twenty thirty one, which is likely
to be based in someone like San Francisco.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
So two key elements to it.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
It's only six teams deep so far. The potential for expansion.
Where do you think this goes? How big could this
league become? Score?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yeah, So there'll be two teams added in twenty twenty seven,
one of which will be the team that we're partnering
with or supporting, and then another one which.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I believe will be based in Chicago.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
And then in twenty thirty one there will be two
more teams added, one which will be the one that
again that we're supporting, and then another one. So as
I understand it, ten is going to be the maximum,
and that'll be the last two will be added in
twenty thirty one.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Where's the profit and what are the pitfalls? You would
have done your due diligence, I'm sure over that four months,
But where could it all fade away, disappear and end
up being a porn investment? And in turn the profit
margins where do they sit? How long do you expect
before you start taking some income out of this league?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Will be taking income immediately because we're getting paid for
our high performance services, So we will be taking a
seven figure sum from that immediately. As I say, part
of that will go will be sweat equity that will
go into the inequity investment.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
But we'll be making money out of this straight away.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Which is you know, one of the things that we're
most pleased about in terms of risks. I mean, look,
there's always risks and investments, but we think, you know,
we've managed to kind of manage what could be potential
downside because we're you know, we're getting paid a service
fee as well as that equity component. And also looking
(07:31):
at the investors that we're partnering with, they have track
records of producer standing up growing very very successful businesses.
So we're really comfortable from that point of view. But
you know, look, nothing's without risk.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Obviously when you look at the players involved, the coaching staff,
everybody that's going to actually have to go and set
foot and set up camp over in America. One of
the Newsillant Cricket Players Association had to say about that,
and of course coaching staff and other stuff. Plainly you've
approached them, you've talked to them about that. What's their
input being Scott.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Yeah, from a coaching management and high performance staff perspective,
they will be New Zealand staff members who will go
across and essentially be campdon in the US for between
four and six weeks during the course of the tournament.
We will then have you know, players who are involved
in the franchise across in New Zealand during our season.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
So not much change is there.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
And my expectation and certainly the reaction from internally with
the New Zealand staff has been everyone putting their hand
up and wanting to get involved. So that's a real
positive and we see that as a great development pathway
for that group. And then in terms of the players,
you know, obviously we can't make commitments in terms of
the players. Our expectation is that, you know, there will
(08:51):
be a heavy New Zealand influence in terms of the
player group, but that will be part of a separate
contracting arrangement between players and the franchise.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
But there is a want and an acceptance to this
from the Cricket Players Association.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Yeah, So the players I have spoken to are incredibly
excited about it. And when we met with these founders
in Dubai, you know, we introduce into a number of
Black Caps at the time, and so they see this
as an incredible positive because it's simply going to create
further opportunities for Black black Caps and other major association
(09:29):
players to you know, to play in franchise cricket in
the US, So there.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Will be major names involved in New Zealand test odin
T twenty campaigns that will be buying into this and
I suppose the perfect world.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Yeah, yeah, Look, our expectation is that there will be
you know, a heavy influence of New black Caps playing
in this franchise and also other teams and Major League cricket.
But again that sort of subject to separate sort of
contracting arrangements, and certainly, you know, our expectation is that they,
(10:03):
you know, our contracted players will still be prioritized as
in playing for New Zealand over any franchise arrangements.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
What does this mean for the Super Smash Because New
Zealand Cricket were fairly adamant that they're happy with the
production line that the Super Smash provides and the way
it does bring players up to speed and didn't really
want to move toward the Big Bash. But this suggests
to me that that is an ever changing ground, if
(10:30):
you will.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
So we see this as a positive for the Super
Smash and other New Zealand competitions because we will be
generating separate revenue that we're able to use to invest
in those competitions, so we only started as a positive
in that respect. In terms of the Super Smash itself,
you know that we continue to look at what we
should be doing with that. You know, should we be
(10:52):
privatizing that, should we be set up franchises, should we
be thinking about putting the team into the Big Bash?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
You know, all of those things are still a consideration.
You know, the.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Super Smash remains a very very good tournament, high qual cricket,
and we're already pleased with that, but it evolves. We
need to continue to evolve in our thinking around what
we do with the Super Smash. You know is you
know is critical and it's it's you know, a top
of thought.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Broadcast rights, Who gets to watch this? How much is
it going to cost? Is it going to be online?
It's Sky going to pick it up. You thought through that.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
So Sky picked up Major League Cricket last year.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
So that won't change.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
And expect I don't know if Sky have picked it
up this coming year. I assume those negotiations are still
still going on. Once there's a New Zealand flavor to it,
I think there'll probably be more of an interest from
New Zealand fans in watching Major League Cricket because the
timing is.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Actually quite good.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
So my expectation is that it'll be picked up by
Sky or Stream or perhaps even TV and Z you
know eventually.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And finishing it all off Scott when you can think
so much for your time and so always let's look
at the wider picture of the international cricket at schedule.
Nevis is still well up for debate. There's lots of
negotiating going on about where it sits, what the prominent
columns are for World cricket, how does that fit into
(12:17):
ODI bilateral series, that the Test series and the like,
if you've done much work in that space, and presending
you have, because that's very much what World Cricket are
looking at.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Yeah, I mean, look, obviously the World Cricket Association came
up with a report on it recently and the ICC
are talking about it constantly.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
So there's a.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Real focus on the cricket calendar and trying to ensure
that international cricket and these domestic T twenty franchises can
complement each other. So again that is top of mind
at the ICC, and I would expect, you know, there
will be some movement in that respect and trying to
(12:55):
rationalize the calendar to make international cricket and these domestic
leagues work better together, but also more particularly to ensure
that international cricket has context and jeopardy in all the
series that are played, to keep that attraction for players,
fans and broadcasters.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Was the editor, Lawrence Booth. Is he sitting at the
table with all these changes?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah? I mean, look, every everyone has a view.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
The English obviously have a have a slightly drawn just
view of the World Test Championship because I haven't been
able to make the finals.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
That's probably a little undere.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
But everyone has a view, which which you know, which
is great because it just shows the interesting cricket. Look,
if you could wave a magic wand and create a
you know, a calendar that works for everyone, that would
be great. It is challenging, but there's absolutely a desire,
I think, you know, on behalf of all parties to
try and work out how they best get a calendar
(13:57):
together and best grow the game of cricket across the board,
because cricket is growing and we just want to make
sure it doesn't start Cannon bline itself.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
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