May 8, 2025 • 42 mins
D'Arcy Waldegrave returned to wrap another day of sports news! Highlights for tonight include:
Sports rights expert Colin Smith on NZR+ and NZ Rugby's result.
NZ Herald rugby writer Gregor Paul on why he thinks this result proves that the Silver Lake deal was a mistake.
Talkback - why isn't NZR making money?
Tall Black Tohi Smith-Milner on their loss to the Boomers.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Greetings, greetings, welcome to sports Talk. Great to have you
on board. It's Thursday, seven o seven, that is on
the eighth of May twenty twenty five. I'm Darcy Walter Grave.
This is my happy place. Thanks for joining us here
to eight o'clock. We are talking sport, Rugby, broadcasting money, basketball,
(01:05):
A heady of all three joining us on the show
this evening. I caught up with Toy Millner Smith after
last night's first up of three game nights, if you will,
the Tall Blacks taking on the Boomers and then the
Opals playing the Tall Ferns. Unfortunately, both the Ferns and
(01:27):
the Blacks had losses. There was a lot to like
about both fixtures. They will talk about that with Tohi
Smith Milner later on on the piece. We're going to
get things going with the latest information around the money
or lack thereof from in z Are. They released some
figures today saying yay, we made more money than we
made in such a long day and they are also
(01:48):
lost nearly twenty million. So we look at the good
and the bad and the ups and the Downs, and
will be joined by Gregor Paul later on. He wrote
a story in The New Zealand held around us. If
you want to dive deep, you can take a look
at that in zidherld dot co dot in z And
we're also going to talk with Colin Smith. He's a
sports negotiation expert out of Australia who deals in global
(02:11):
sports negotiations. About looking ahead to inzi our plus, which
cost them a lot of money, Is it worth it
our ins it are an organization that looks after rugby
or ins are our organization that is capable of running
(02:37):
a channel like inzit r plus, to deal with negotiations,
to deal with contracts, to deal with content. Most importantly,
how long can this last before maybe this piece of
string gets snapped. Look, we'll talk to Colin Smith shortly
about that. Straight on that, we'll talk to Gregor Paul
(02:59):
or at what he sees whether this was a good
news bad news story. Find out that tell you later
on on the piece and you'll call in the middle
one hundred and eighty ten eighty plenty of yaba jabber
about looking forward to doing it can Text nineteen ninety two.
That is z B z B. But as per we
won't do any of that did until we do a
(03:19):
whole lot of this, and in sports today is mentioned
in zare released some figures around their income. They made
a bunch two eighty five million, they lost a bunch
as well nineteen point five million, and said rugby chair
David Kirk doesn't see their fiscal dramas as problematic.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
More this, the biggest challenge for all national sporting organizations
is engagement and participation in the In the amateur game,
our mission, our purpose is to is to involve people
in rugby from a young age.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
They should be called the Quakers, those cute little Western
Australian marsupials that sacrifice the young in the face of
predator attack. That they're all class. But Peter Thelander is
the big cheese at the NRL thinks the name association
with the new entry to the NRL, the Bears, is
(04:15):
a good thing for the club, The Perth Bears, a
Western Australian team named after a defunct Sydney operation. Don't
get it. The Bears were one of our foundation clubs.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
They've been there since nineteen o eight.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
It's proven in other sports that if you have one
of those traditional clubs behind the new club, it helps.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
What they're going to also do is provide the players.
What does it help you Expand on that for me, please,
I'm not sure. Look, I was talking to Elliott Smith,
voice of rugby colleague in the newsroom. Says, wow, think
of it this way, Darcy. Every second week they'll be
playing in Sydney. That's a good point. So every second
(04:52):
week the North Sydney Bears fans can pretend like they've
been reanimated, if you will. Did anyone see that film
back in the day, The Reanimator? Tragic anyway, So maybe
they're onto something there. Myself, I just think it's dumb.
Us Politician J d. Vance has extended a welcoming hand
(05:17):
to the footballing world for the FIFA World Cup, but
not too welcoming. Give us your money, just don't know
to stay your welcome, Powell.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Of course, everybody is welcome to come and see this
incredible event. I know we'll have visitors probably from close
to one hundred countries. We want them to come, we
want them to celebrate, we want them to watch the game.
But when the time is up they'll have to go home.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Piss off. That's what he probably wanted to say right.
Speaker 7 (05:44):
Now.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
You look at the way they kind of arrest people
and chuck them into vans. You ever see them again,
you'd be pretty brave to go for their full stop, wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
You be that?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Another story, Chive a Better Ride than Dinner, has its
days in the same Coming up, Badminton Horse Trials are
on the event for Horsey Folk welcomes back Caroline Poweller
board Greenacres Special Cavalier who are looking to repeat last
year's heroics.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Taking up the tree for the other day was quite
sad and obviously somebody else is done to give it
a good shot at getting the trophy.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
You know, we've got a really good shot this year
with keV.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, don't give it up that easy. Get in there
and win.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
And that's.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
We're talking now. In Zare made some money, lost some money.
Where do they go now there's three consecutive years of losses,
think titles up to seventy six million odd barks. But
they are crowing the good side of this. I'm interested
in in z Are Plus, I'm interested in this platform,
(06:44):
this channel designed for overseas audiences that's going to encourage
more eyeballs and dig in to the fan base, the
global fan base that is believed to exist, which is
part of the reason why silver Light climbed on board.
Not that they've done too much to help us, but
now that's another story. Before I go to Gregor Paul
(07:05):
to talk about that, we're joined by a broadcasting rights
advisor globally. His name is Colin Smurthy joins us. Now,
good evening to you, Colin.
Speaker 8 (07:17):
Great to catch up with you and look forward to
our discussion.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Always great to have you. On what's happened today, It's
been released that z R have made the most money
they've ever made, not only five million dollars, but they've
also lost a nineteen point five million dollars. Good, bad
and different. I'll leave that up to you. What I'm
interested in and this is your area expertise in sports
media rights. Where does ZR plus sit in all this,
(07:44):
not only with the amount of money they spend providing
that product, but how it also works with the upcoming
sky TV negotiations. So it's first up ins R Plus.
On the face of it, has it been worthwhile currently
and will it be worthwhile in the future.
Speaker 8 (08:01):
That's a really good question and it's a fundamental question.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
And if you look, they have been building their position
and ends are Plus is not a New Zealand domestic
broadcast per se. It's meant to and designed to be
the broadcast medium for New Zealand rugby in a global
(08:31):
sense where they don't have rights or a sold and
they are also now doing that with Sansa as well.
Speaker 8 (08:39):
So in terms of.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Their product, their product is outside of New Zealand. The
question is can that be monetized and will that be
a creedive for value for New Zealand rugby.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Do you think after all of your experience it will
be And how long will this take? Because what do
they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. This is
not going to be overnight. But there has to be
a link, doesn't There has to be a time and
they go enough, so enough, this is not working for us.
Speaker 8 (09:12):
It's a really good question.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
So there are some examples we can see around the
world of this, and we can look at what's happening.
Speaker 8 (09:20):
Around the world and what decisions have be made.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
And the two best examples World Volleyball with a private
equity fund set up Volleyball World and then Volleyball TV,
and that is the broadcast volleyball with subscribers around the world.
Now their numbers have increased, in other words, the number
(09:44):
of subscribers have increased, but it is still an investment
and not delivering returns.
Speaker 8 (09:51):
The other one, which is.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
I think even more valid learnings for the music ends
are plus is the NFL.
Speaker 8 (10:01):
The NFL has a product.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Called Plus which is a streaming service for the global market.
Now last year it sold in NFL Plus to Desone,
Daz and interestingly the Zone are the new owners of
(10:27):
Foxtel in Australia and they're probably one of the largest
sports specific broadcasters stream broadcasters in the world.
Speaker 8 (10:35):
And the reason why the.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
NFL sold that that this excludes the US and Canada,
was because they thought, well, they banked a check for
a billion dollars, but more importantly, they believe to get
their content out it was better to be combined with
other sports products. So the question for inns that are
(10:58):
plus is how can they build and position that and
sell that a global sense to make money and it
to be a creedy for value for New Zealand rugby
and that and frankly that is an open question right now.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
How long do you think they should give themselves before
they count their losses and maybe sell to the zone
or walk away completely. Is there amount of time is this?
How long is this piece of string column?
Speaker 5 (11:25):
Well, I think if you look at the financial as
you've or alluded to the financial performances of New Zealand Rugby,
it's got three years of losses.
Speaker 8 (11:36):
So and it's not strong.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
Its balance sheet is lots lots of assets, but it's
also got significant debts. So therefore you'd probably say a
maximum of three years, maybe up to five. But it's
got to be seen to be building and it's not,
and it's not just got to be measured in terms
(12:00):
of the number of what we call click throughs, in
other words, people are visiting the site and accessing the site.
Speaker 8 (12:08):
We've got to see that being monetized.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
So you want to see significant increases in revenues over
that horizon. And if not, look at a strategic partner.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Where does the money come from simply people buying access
for this advertising sales throughout the platform that they've got.
Where is the bulk of this money supposed to be
coming from? If you look at what's happening globally with
these other plus platforms.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
So it will be the combination of subscribers and the
other part of that is also commercialization and other words
advertising funding and sponsorship funding into the site. Now those
two have got to therefore be positives over the cost
(12:59):
of running the site, and that's where it's important.
Speaker 8 (13:03):
It is pushing the other side of this.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
It is actually promoting the All Blacks and New Zealand rugby,
but that's not an investment that it can continue at
the same level. It was not providing commercial return because
otherwise it's just increasing the losses for New Zealand rugby.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It's Colin Smith regular on the program. He is a
advisor to sports rights negotiation globally, looking at particularly in
z plus, where it hopes to go, where it may
not go. How long it's worth sticking around for, how
long to ins dig their heels and before they go
(13:59):
this is working before they go? You know what, We've
got to stick to our anything we will run rugby.
Not content interesting discussion Colin there that it's a very
difficult thing to do. It's almost likely just cut it
loose and go. You do it and I'll take a cut.
I don't know, we get your thoughts on that soon,
but before that, we now go to my old mate
(14:22):
Gregor Paul Rugby writer out of the New Zealand Herald,
to look at a similar issue, to look at the
money going out and coming in to Zenda as revealed
today by end Zider. He joins us now at seven
twenty one.
Speaker 9 (14:40):
Good ay, Gregor, Oh Darcy.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Crazy story today or crazy story in the fact that
they may have lost nineteen and a half million dollars,
but they did bill for twodred and eighty five million dollars.
So it's a good news and a bad news story.
Speaker 9 (14:55):
Right, Well, no, it's a bad news story.
Speaker 7 (15:00):
I like the fact that they made or generated two
hundred and eighty five million dollars a revenue is being
overplayed as a source of good news in my view. Look,
that is a good figure, don't get me wrong. However,
we've got to go and contrast and compare it with
previous numbers, pre Silver Lake, New Zealand Rugby's equity partner
(15:24):
coming into the business in twenty twenty two. Because the
reason that they came in and we're given the chance
to invest, was because they were going to make these
transformational shifts and revenue.
Speaker 9 (15:35):
So we were sold this idea.
Speaker 7 (15:37):
That revenue would climb in excess of I think the
initial forecast had revenue way in excess to three hundred
million by twenty twenty four, and it was two hundred
and eighty five, which is only I think off the
top of my head, I can't remember now. I think
it's about twelve percent increase on last year. But when
you look at where that increase came from, the majority
(16:00):
of it actually came from interest payments that New Zealand
Rugby received as a result of having Silver Lakes money
in the back. So the biggest growth of revenue was interest.
Now that's not a great story when you get down
to it, and that is not fitting in with a
picture that we were sold three years ago. So I
(16:23):
don't think it's good news bad news. I think it's
bad news, bad news.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Extrapolate this as far as Silver Lakes engagement, what they
actually bring, what they've done, if anything? What do we
learn about their involvement in this through these results.
Speaker 7 (16:39):
Well, I'll make this answer very short. The answer to
what have they brought? Nothing?
Speaker 9 (16:43):
You know, That's that's the sad part here.
Speaker 7 (16:45):
This is the warning that people like me and a
few others who weren't seduced by private equities sales pitch
always said was that they don't bring capability.
Speaker 9 (16:57):
They're not they're not rugby people, per see.
Speaker 7 (17:00):
They don't have a magic wand they don't actually have
the answers to the problems that newsand Rugby thinks that
it has. And if you look at it, you go, well, okay.
The revenue model that New Zealand Rugby presented today is
no different to the one that they've been following for
the last thirty years of professionalism. So they made their
(17:22):
money out of selling media rights, sponsorships and match day revenues,
which is what they've been doing forever. They played a
few games offshore and then the USA and Japan last year,
but they've been doing that for the last ten or
fifteen years as well. So there's nothing new in what
silver Lake have brought to the table. They haven't changed
anything except for the fact that they've parked money in
(17:45):
New Zealand's bank account. But of course, as much as
you know, New Zealand is benefiting from that, they also
have to pay interest on that loan, so we're in
a sort of truly ridiculous position where New Zealand banks
twelve million in interest or fourteen million in interest, but
has to pay twelve million back in interest to silver Lake.
Speaker 9 (18:06):
And I am honestly.
Speaker 7 (18:07):
Thinking if an eight year old came up with us
as a financial model in a primary school project, you
would smile nicely and try and redirect them into coming
up with a better idea.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Talking about silver Lake back in the day when this occurred,
do I just think they're a members saying, hey, this
is Shakespeare, this is Merchant to Venice, and Silverlake are Shylock,
and they will get their pound of flesh. Don't you worry.
They're in this for money, They're not in this for
the goodness of rugby. And you talked about people are
being seduced by that concept and it did work, which
(18:39):
brings me to my next point around this. When you
look at their NZR plus, which is probably part of
this brave new world of silver Lake, which appears to
have not made a great deal of money, if any,
it's costing them a fortune. How long is their piece
of rope? How long before a group that are a
(18:59):
rugby organization who really should stick to rugby, stick to
their knitting. Realize they're not broad casters, they can't make content,
and maybe their upcoming agreement with Sky has to work
along that track. They're spreading themselves to things is not
what they do, right.
Speaker 9 (19:17):
Oh, I couldn't agree with you more, Darcy. That's absolutely right.
Speaker 7 (19:21):
It is a staggering amount of money and for people
like you and I either work in the media industry
not I'm not being facetious, I'm being absolutely genuine.
Speaker 9 (19:31):
When you start to think about twelve.
Speaker 7 (19:34):
Million dollars got invested in NZR plus last year. Now
you start to think what twelve million dollars would feel
like coming into the Herald's newsroom or zb's newsroom, and
what you be able to do with that money, because
we're currently living in an existential crisis as media people.
And you look at that and go, wow, if we
had that amount of money, that the results could be
(19:55):
extraordinary with what we could do. And then you look
at New Zealand Rugby and go to your point, they're
not they're not broadcast people. So they look at so
they've got execs who have got literally no idea what
they are talking about in the space in my view,
and they say things, oh, we've got, you know, one
billion views on YouTube, and I go, whooputty, do you've
(20:15):
probably got You could put an all black Hakker video
and maybe a best of highlight highlights package, and I
guarantee you you'd probably get similar results. When we've got
social media influencers who on you know, around the world,
people going off to restaurants and tourism landmarks and they
produce TikTok videos and these guys are probably spending low
(20:37):
hundreds of thousands on their content production and driving millions
of dollars back and winning literally tens.
Speaker 9 (20:44):
Of millions of followers.
Speaker 7 (20:46):
So you start comparing and contrasting, know how you build
an audience with the budget that they've put at this
And there's no way can you tell me that this
is a good return on investment? And you know, to
your point, how long can they keep going? Not one
more day? If I'm the New Zealand Rugby Board, I
think you've got to slash that by by at least
(21:07):
ten million. And so here's two million dollars and even
that is wildly generous for an organization that simply doesn't
know what it's doing.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
And that is Gregor Paul Rugby, right Ford, New Zealand Herald.
Not a lot of gray area. And what Greg is
saying there, you get rid of ends at our plus.
Don't give them any money. They a rugby organization and
what do they know about platforms, broadcasting, monetizing and no nothing.
Well they'd probably go, no, you're wrong. We've got a
(21:48):
lot of experts in the trade and we know what
we're doing and we're looking long term, and long term
it might work. I don't know if historically, looking around,
there have been many organizations that have dragged money out
of places like silver Lake and turn to good profit
(22:13):
and it's been given back to them in a better state.
It's probably more like the opposite. I mean, it's a
lot of people we're concerned about. During Silverlake, I go
back to Shylock and getting as pound of flesh they will.
It's what they do. The money people. They can tell
you all the one they love the game and the
romance of the all Blacks and this mighty brand, and
they can spin these amazing tales on me. But they
(22:33):
only interested in money. That's it, nothing else. And we
were all interested in money. But I think that nz
R should generate as much as they can, absolutely, but
try not to spend more than you get, and when
you do, be judicious with it. I think it's a
one in a prayer running into this the seeds R plus. Look,
(22:55):
it's not aimed at me, it's not aimed at you,
It's aimed at the untapped market overseas, which brings me
to the conclusion you inz are and to a degree,
Silver Lake, do they think the All Black footprint is
(23:19):
considerably larger than it actually is? Maybe injed are wound
into this by Silver like the All Black's famous brand.
It's huge, they're winning, They're this, they're that, They're that.
Is that actually the case? The footprint of rugby would
be a lot bigger. Maybe that's to be the focus.
(23:40):
And I am unsure if tapping all of this income
into ns r plas to try and tap into that
untapped potential is a good idea. You run rugby rugby,
you're not on the broadcast platform. Give it to someone else,
(24:03):
take a cut and they'll make it work. There are
people out there that do this for a living for money.
They're really good at it that I'll just sell it
all to the zonne and walk off and just take
all the pressure off. You focus on your core task.
Like the couriers deliver the package. That's all you got
to do, right. Maybe I'm just too simplistic. Seven thirty
(24:27):
This is sports talk on News Talk z B. How
do you feel about n j R and what they're
trying to do here? Do you just shut it and
got care? I just want to see rugby. Is that
actually quite important? Because I think that David Kirk hit
(24:48):
the nail on the head. He is the most sensible
guy in the room. What did he say? Nothing to
do with money engagement, that's our problem. We're going to
work on that. Nay, A true word spoken, keep it simple.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Oh I get this in with my.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
So a couple of questions out of this song Darcy
by the way, welcome to use or be thanks for
your time late one hundred and eighty ten eighty context
nineteen nine two. There's z B z B A New
Zealand Rugby laboring under the misapprehension that the All Blacks
are massive globally. They think they can expand it and
(26:06):
make it bigger. And I get that that's the the
untapped territory that maybe got rustled somewhat by Silver Lake.
It's big. It's huge out there. You've got the potential
to make all this money and we can help. They haven't,
but they do. You think we think the All Blacks
are how bigger than they actually are? But maybe they're
small fried globally. But we're blinded by this because they
(26:29):
had such a great winning record. They've got the black jersey,
they've got their history, they had to dad. I think
they've overestimated the appeal of the All Blacks. And if
you've lived overseas experience that tell me, oh, eight hundred
eighty ten eighty. Look, how big are they? It's a
(26:50):
big selling point and rugby's probably bigger than the All
Blacks itself. And there's quite a few texts around the
competency of the management of New Zealand rugby. So my
other questions behind the footprint, what do you as a
rugby fan see? As inz Our's Prime focus. I often
(27:16):
complain about courier companies losing packages because that's their job,
your one job, get a package from Made to be.
We've lost it. How it's like prisoners prisons that let
prisoners out. You've got one job, mate, keep them inside.
How did you escape. So what's the one job? What
do you want to see from z R? What's the
important thing here from you as a punter, as a
(27:38):
new Zealander, because you can't tell me what you want
as far as their platform is concerned, because not aimed
at us, they've already got us with sky and now
that goes.
Speaker 9 (27:47):
Who knows.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Instre plus is not about us, It's about the overseas market.
I don't think they can fill the content myself, but
not by themselves sell It's a d A in Z
So what is their primary reason for existence? For inst
are in your eyes? Eight hundred eighty ten eighty And
(28:12):
if they or we grossly overestimated the appeal and the
potential of all blacks globally, I think they probably have.
I look, I stand to be corrected. They would have
done a lot more or you'd think a lot more
examination of this before they started tipping a hole lot
(28:35):
of money into it. But when silverlight did turn up
a lot of warnings out there, don't do this, but
they did still afloat, not sunk yet kind of let's
run through the text lines I'd love to hear from you.
I eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty overestimated the
all black effects globally. What's their purpose? Very very simple?
(28:58):
What endz are do? They managed rugby in New Zealand.
There you go, rugby in New Zealand and they've got
paid for it somehow granted. So how did it work
out that they suddenly are not earning as much money
as they're spending to the chine of nearly three hundred
(29:19):
million dollars? How does that work? What do they do
with it?
Speaker 8 (29:23):
Lunch?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty let's go to a
handful of texts before the calls come rolling in Darcy
VNSI were a competently run business, the board would sack
the CEO and the CFO for poor performance. Any other
businesses lost money three years in a row would make
drastic changes to the business model. Thank you, Steve. South
(29:46):
Africa left and the money left. Quite simple, rights Van,
thank you very much for that. Hi Glenn, how are
you in this space?
Speaker 8 (29:57):
You're will yeah?
Speaker 10 (29:59):
Could you?
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
No, not so but a bit confused. It seems all
a bit overpowering. It probably shouldn't be, should it.
Speaker 10 (30:05):
I shouldn't be talking about the financial position of You're
going to rugby. I think that like any is pulled
out of the All Blacks as well as the National
Storage pulled out of the Hurricanes Woman's means game. There's
a lot of sponsorship gone there because of the political
(30:28):
dance renting before the games and that All Blacks game
with p J pre and Hour and that woman from
the Hurricanes.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, they're upset a couple of people that probably would
have that's that's much smaller beans, although the Hurricanes is
it's not because they need as many beans as they
can get. They're struggling.
Speaker 10 (30:49):
National Storage sponsored them for years and years and years,
and there it's not on the on the jerseys, on
the memes all Woman's thing and well.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
I don't know how that happened. Maybe they just said
they had no money because we are in a bit
of a squeeze right now. No one's got any cash.
So I kind of understand that, whether they directly reacting to.
Speaker 10 (31:06):
Something happening on the now, so some of them said
the money, I think National Surance are not going broke
down in Australia and then New Zealand work, but then
pulled the head of the Hurricanes and they got more.
They got shedloads of.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
It disaster and that's been drop keicked to the side.
They've got compensation. Now they've climbed on board with Toyota,
which strikes me as a much better bid.
Speaker 9 (31:32):
Pal.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I love rugby. They're extremely reliable.
Speaker 10 (31:38):
They're only on these socks, not only a jersey.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Well, I think the training jerseys and these shorts or
what up for grabs because I'm altred are on the
jerseys themselves. Watching I was watching a demand on then
a rugby talk show James Parsons is very good and
(32:05):
she had a top on it said any of us
on the sleeve? Look, it can't last long. Just like that,
suddenly it got blurred out, which is good. Whoever broadcast
that new guan? What do you think around? What is
the you on rugby's purpose? What do they do?
Speaker 10 (32:22):
Well? Didn't they put it come to all the rugby
unions throughout the country and they had a vote on
it and one of the things was to get rid
of that Mark Robinson?
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, but what do they do though? Injured are as
an entity? What do you what are your expectations for?
We know what you want with the Blacks, right, you
want them to win? What about the overarching company that
run or what do you want from them?
Speaker 10 (32:41):
Well, it's not just the all Blacks, it's the whole,
the whole nine yards, you know, all the provinces, all
the women and kids teams. That sends it outd the lot,
but definitely doing something wrong because I watched, well I'm down,
I live in the South Forum, but I watched the
Auckland the Blues playing now one of the Pacific teams
last week and there's only about four pairs and there
(33:02):
four and a half fairs, and it's just why bother?
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, I think that eyeballs and screens and beble home
their living rooms probably a lot more important to the
fishheads and the bean counters than people up the grounds.
People don't really go to sports much these days, do they,
unless it's a big occasion.
Speaker 10 (33:21):
I don't know. Well, i'd save money by not getting
so many cleaners to clean all the seats on one
side for the camera.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Good on you, Glenn. Hey, thanks very much of you call.
Great to have you on board. It is seven forty
two John complaining about the North Sydney sorry, the North
Perth Bears that should be called the Quakers. Someone's texted
and darc You know the Los Angeles Lakers were originally
the Minnesota Lakers, Minnesota being the land of a thousand lakes. Yeah,
(33:52):
but JT the Oakland Raiders, where are they now? Vegas
or something. It's not unusual for American teams to buy
the franchise and move it.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
But this.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Darcy, they're not big at all. In Australia, rugby's fourth
on the list. In Sun New Zealand, the basketball is
the biggest growing sport. How do we know that? But
globally the All Blacks a bigger draw cutters. We've been
need to believe by Ja and Silver Ake. This is
(34:30):
news Talks here b seventeen away from eight. Tasabeth Milner
joins us Sumer, talking hoops American asion. I think guy
(34:56):
left him somewhere, Semi boy six. It's little bit of
basketball now. Three double headers between the Opals and the
All Ferns and the Tall Blacks and the Boomers first
double hitdles yesterday were joined now by TAYM Miller Smith as.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
We talk about get at hey, how are you going?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
I'm going, well, what about yourselves? Let's look back at
that game last night. You got off to an absolute
snorter of a start. It was slow, wasn't it? Two
minutes without any buckets whatsoever? But then you guys really
got into your work and then they kind of came back.
So what happened just described to us that transition between
the first quarters.
Speaker 11 (35:37):
Yeah, well, obviously we were trying to put a lot
of pressure on them in terms of getting up and
down the court pretty quickly. They've obviously didn't train as
much as we did, but I think we just kind
of lost our way a little bit there towards the
end of the game, in the second half specifically. But yeah,
a lot to learn from that game, and there's some
(35:59):
great things that happened obviously, but yeah, a lot of
work ons to do for game two, and thankfully we
got a quick turn around and be able to adjust
on the fly for tomorrow's game.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
What is the good? What did Judd Flavel saydie? What
was he impressed with toy?
Speaker 11 (36:16):
Obviously the first half, there's a lot there to go
back and look at and think that we did a
pretty good job. Our pace was really good. We don't
think they can keep up with us in that terms.
But you know, guys like Shae and Taylor when they
get out and be able to run the court like
they do at a high level. Great be able to
(36:37):
see that, and for a guy like myself being in
pick and rolls with Shaye and Taylor and I get
to I guess in a way, just pick up scrap
points wherever they need it.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
That fast break concept, is that something you've been walking on,
working on to try and run the legs off these assies.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 11 (36:54):
We're just like to transition from them scoring or usk
getting a defensive rebound to pushing it the other way
has been a very big emphasis. Obviously, we haven't We
don't have weeks and weeks to be able to be
with the stamina or endurance that obviously we want to
sustain for the whole game. But it's slowly getting there.
(37:15):
There's obviously a lot of things that we can go
back and.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
Look at and say we could have changed this, could
have changed that.
Speaker 11 (37:21):
But you know the best thing for us now is
to just look ahead, go watch some film and be
able to try to replicate the first half for longer.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
I guess in the next game.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
And Ruben Tarangi, he said that maybe he's getting a
bit long in the tooth but there's a lot of
young fresh legs out there and that should help. And
I mean, you played that fast break game and some
of the newer guys boundless energy. You must be jealously.
Speaker 11 (37:47):
Yeah, it's kind of weird being in these camps now
because I feel like it was only last year that
i was one of the young boys, but now I'm
considered one of the older ones.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Now we older one of the vets. But no, it's cool.
Speaker 11 (38:01):
They bring a different energy which is great to see. Obviously,
I've got a few of my teammates from the Rams
here and seeing those guys being able to get out
on the court and give it a crack, and yeah,
it's great to see they. Like I said, they bring
a whole different energy source older guys, and we kind
of have toy bring our level.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Up as well as much as we bring their level
up as well.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Walter Brown had some impressive buckets in that game. There
was one that I remember like it's late at night
for me, but he absolutely looked the goods. These guys
got energy, there's a there's a rear talent that break.
Speaker 11 (38:35):
Yeah, no, he's I mean being able to see him
play this year's and over the years, he's taken huge
leaps forward and it's great to see. And I think
everyone on this team this year is obviously going on
to play on bigger teams now and it's great to
see that. Obviously, we've got some college guys like Julius
(38:55):
and Oscar Simon Jackson obviously on their way to college
over the next year, and being able to see those
guys grow as players as well as humans is great
to see.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, I've had a couple of chats with Jackson ball.
He's he's a very confident young man, isn't he.
Speaker 11 (39:15):
Yeah, No, he definitely knows where his shots are and
it's great to see. Been watching being the last window
with him and seeing how much he's taken a step
forward and these last couple of months has been really
cool to see.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Also, it's probably worth focusing on Shay. He's been around
for a long time, but he's not really showing signs
of aging. He's got quality right over the court, in back,
doesn't matter where he is, that guy's goal.
Speaker 8 (39:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (39:44):
No, I mean I've known Chasin Jesus l breakers academy
days over twelve years ago, so seeing him change and
develop has been pretty cool. To see and he's a
world class talent. And what he does on the cord,
I don't think there's many people that are able to
do what he does on the defensive end as well
(40:05):
as the offensive end. Yeah, it's even better being on
his team and not having to try to screen them
like we're do in the NBL, because it's an absolute
nightmare trying to do. Having them on my side now
has been pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
What is that ability? Is it just the speed?
Speaker 9 (40:22):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Is it angles? Is it what he does? What makes
him such a handful and defensive end?
Speaker 4 (40:28):
I think it goes back to his rugby days.
Speaker 11 (40:30):
Like he's very agile, he's light on his feet, and
he's very bloody strong. So even when he switches onto Becas,
he's still able to be able to put up a
really good fight with that as a hard person to
play against, but even better to play with.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
So he's Smith Milner. I got the wrong way round.
It's my lady here. Last name is Milner. So I've
just got it stuck in my brain. I can't help myself,
not that she looks anything like.
Speaker 8 (41:15):
It is.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Seven minutes to eight Sports still here and news Talk ZB.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
For minutes.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Thanks for listening to sports talking, news talks b you
want more of that on a weekdaily basis, We've got
the Sports Fixed podcast. Subscribe comes straight to your inbox
of a weekday afternoon. He's Arabia's hunging themselves by going
woke embracing women's rugby. It's completely revenue negative. It's a
(41:55):
massive virtue signal. It's the problem, go woke, go break,
blah blah, and here we are. I know you don't
like that position, but it's the lay of the land
out here, Simon. The problem is the only growth theory
in New Zealand rugby is the women's game. That's it.
That's the growth theory. And you can sit around ignore
that all you want, or you can work through it,
(42:17):
embrace it and try and make some money out of it.
But you can't make any money out of unless you
invest in the first place, like he's ata plus what
I'm serious And I've had so many texts like that tonight.
The other phant in the room is you know the
amount of money you spend on women and it doesn't
bring any money back, and it's bleeding money, and it's
(42:38):
the growth theory in New Zealand rugby it needs to
be looked at, it needs to be looked after. Nuts
if you don't. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Thanks and Smells for producing the show. I'm Darcy Wallergrave.
I'm going home
Speaker 1 (42:55):
For more from sports talk, Listen live to news Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldegrave
from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Greetings, greetings, welcome to sports Talk. Great to have you
on board. It's Thursday, seven o seven, that is on
the eighth of May twenty twenty five. I'm Darcy Walter Grave.
This is my happy place. Thanks for joining us here
to eight o'clock. We are talking sport, Rugby, broadcasting money, basketball,
(01:05):
A heady of all three joining us on the show
this evening. I caught up with Toy Millner Smith after
last night's first up of three game nights, if you will,
the Tall Blacks taking on the Boomers and then the
Opals playing the Tall Ferns. Unfortunately, both the Ferns and
(01:27):
the Blacks had losses. There was a lot to like
about both fixtures. They will talk about that with Tohi
Smith Milner later on on the piece. We're going to
get things going with the latest information around the money
or lack thereof from in z Are. They released some
figures today saying yay, we made more money than we
made in such a long day and they are also
(01:48):
lost nearly twenty million. So we look at the good
and the bad and the ups and the Downs, and
will be joined by Gregor Paul later on. He wrote
a story in The New Zealand held around us. If
you want to dive deep, you can take a look
at that in zidherld dot co dot in z And
we're also going to talk with Colin Smith. He's a
sports negotiation expert out of Australia who deals in global
(02:11):
sports negotiations. About looking ahead to inzi our plus, which
cost them a lot of money, Is it worth it
our ins it are an organization that looks after rugby
or ins are our organization that is capable of running
(02:37):
a channel like inzit r plus, to deal with negotiations,
to deal with contracts, to deal with content. Most importantly,
how long can this last before maybe this piece of
string gets snapped. Look, we'll talk to Colin Smith shortly
about that. Straight on that, we'll talk to Gregor Paul
(02:59):
or at what he sees whether this was a good
news bad news story. Find out that tell you later
on on the piece and you'll call in the middle
one hundred and eighty ten eighty plenty of yaba jabber
about looking forward to doing it can Text nineteen ninety two.
That is z B z B. But as per we
won't do any of that did until we do a
(03:19):
whole lot of this, and in sports today is mentioned
in zare released some figures around their income. They made
a bunch two eighty five million, they lost a bunch
as well nineteen point five million, and said rugby chair
David Kirk doesn't see their fiscal dramas as problematic.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
More this, the biggest challenge for all national sporting organizations
is engagement and participation in the In the amateur game,
our mission, our purpose is to is to involve people
in rugby from a young age.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
They should be called the Quakers, those cute little Western
Australian marsupials that sacrifice the young in the face of
predator attack. That they're all class. But Peter Thelander is
the big cheese at the NRL thinks the name association
with the new entry to the NRL, the Bears, is
(04:15):
a good thing for the club, The Perth Bears, a
Western Australian team named after a defunct Sydney operation. Don't
get it. The Bears were one of our foundation clubs.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
They've been there since nineteen o eight.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
It's proven in other sports that if you have one
of those traditional clubs behind the new club, it helps.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
What they're going to also do is provide the players.
What does it help you Expand on that for me, please,
I'm not sure. Look, I was talking to Elliott Smith,
voice of rugby colleague in the newsroom. Says, wow, think
of it this way, Darcy. Every second week they'll be
playing in Sydney. That's a good point. So every second
(04:52):
week the North Sydney Bears fans can pretend like they've
been reanimated, if you will. Did anyone see that film
back in the day, The Reanimator? Tragic anyway, So maybe
they're onto something there. Myself, I just think it's dumb.
Us Politician J d. Vance has extended a welcoming hand
(05:17):
to the footballing world for the FIFA World Cup, but
not too welcoming. Give us your money, just don't know
to stay your welcome, Powell.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Of course, everybody is welcome to come and see this
incredible event. I know we'll have visitors probably from close
to one hundred countries. We want them to come, we
want them to celebrate, we want them to watch the game.
But when the time is up they'll have to go home.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Piss off. That's what he probably wanted to say right.
Speaker 7 (05:44):
Now.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
You look at the way they kind of arrest people
and chuck them into vans. You ever see them again,
you'd be pretty brave to go for their full stop, wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
You be that?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Another story, Chive a Better Ride than Dinner, has its
days in the same Coming up, Badminton Horse Trials are
on the event for Horsey Folk welcomes back Caroline Poweller
board Greenacres Special Cavalier who are looking to repeat last
year's heroics.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Taking up the tree for the other day was quite
sad and obviously somebody else is done to give it
a good shot at getting the trophy.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
You know, we've got a really good shot this year
with keV.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, don't give it up that easy. Get in there
and win.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
And that's.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
We're talking now. In Zare made some money, lost some money.
Where do they go now there's three consecutive years of losses,
think titles up to seventy six million odd barks. But
they are crowing the good side of this. I'm interested
in in z Are Plus, I'm interested in this platform,
(06:44):
this channel designed for overseas audiences that's going to encourage
more eyeballs and dig in to the fan base, the
global fan base that is believed to exist, which is
part of the reason why silver Light climbed on board.
Not that they've done too much to help us, but
now that's another story. Before I go to Gregor Paul
(07:05):
to talk about that, we're joined by a broadcasting rights
advisor globally. His name is Colin Smurthy joins us. Now,
good evening to you, Colin.
Speaker 8 (07:17):
Great to catch up with you and look forward to
our discussion.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Always great to have you. On what's happened today, It's
been released that z R have made the most money
they've ever made, not only five million dollars, but they've
also lost a nineteen point five million dollars. Good, bad
and different. I'll leave that up to you. What I'm
interested in and this is your area expertise in sports
media rights. Where does ZR plus sit in all this,
(07:44):
not only with the amount of money they spend providing
that product, but how it also works with the upcoming
sky TV negotiations. So it's first up ins R Plus.
On the face of it, has it been worthwhile currently
and will it be worthwhile in the future.
Speaker 8 (08:01):
That's a really good question and it's a fundamental question.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
And if you look, they have been building their position
and ends are Plus is not a New Zealand domestic
broadcast per se. It's meant to and designed to be
the broadcast medium for New Zealand rugby in a global
(08:31):
sense where they don't have rights or a sold and
they are also now doing that with Sansa as well.
Speaker 8 (08:39):
So in terms of.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Their product, their product is outside of New Zealand. The
question is can that be monetized and will that be
a creedive for value for New Zealand rugby.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Do you think after all of your experience it will
be And how long will this take? Because what do
they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. This is
not going to be overnight. But there has to be
a link, doesn't There has to be a time and
they go enough, so enough, this is not working for us.
Speaker 8 (09:12):
It's a really good question.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
So there are some examples we can see around the
world of this, and we can look at what's happening.
Speaker 8 (09:20):
Around the world and what decisions have be made.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
And the two best examples World Volleyball with a private
equity fund set up Volleyball World and then Volleyball TV,
and that is the broadcast volleyball with subscribers around the world.
Now their numbers have increased, in other words, the number
(09:44):
of subscribers have increased, but it is still an investment
and not delivering returns.
Speaker 8 (09:51):
The other one, which is.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
I think even more valid learnings for the music ends
are plus is the NFL.
Speaker 8 (10:01):
The NFL has a product.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Called Plus which is a streaming service for the global market.
Now last year it sold in NFL Plus to Desone,
Daz and interestingly the Zone are the new owners of
(10:27):
Foxtel in Australia and they're probably one of the largest
sports specific broadcasters stream broadcasters in the world.
Speaker 8 (10:35):
And the reason why the.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
NFL sold that that this excludes the US and Canada,
was because they thought, well, they banked a check for
a billion dollars, but more importantly, they believe to get
their content out it was better to be combined with
other sports products. So the question for inns that are
(10:58):
plus is how can they build and position that and
sell that a global sense to make money and it
to be a creedy for value for New Zealand rugby
and that and frankly that is an open question right now.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
How long do you think they should give themselves before
they count their losses and maybe sell to the zone
or walk away completely. Is there amount of time is this?
How long is this piece of string column?
Speaker 5 (11:25):
Well, I think if you look at the financial as
you've or alluded to the financial performances of New Zealand Rugby,
it's got three years of losses.
Speaker 8 (11:36):
So and it's not strong.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
Its balance sheet is lots lots of assets, but it's
also got significant debts. So therefore you'd probably say a
maximum of three years, maybe up to five. But it's
got to be seen to be building and it's not,
and it's not just got to be measured in terms
(12:00):
of the number of what we call click throughs, in
other words, people are visiting the site and accessing the site.
Speaker 8 (12:08):
We've got to see that being monetized.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
So you want to see significant increases in revenues over
that horizon. And if not, look at a strategic partner.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Where does the money come from simply people buying access
for this advertising sales throughout the platform that they've got.
Where is the bulk of this money supposed to be
coming from? If you look at what's happening globally with
these other plus platforms.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
So it will be the combination of subscribers and the
other part of that is also commercialization and other words
advertising funding and sponsorship funding into the site. Now those
two have got to therefore be positives over the cost
(12:59):
of running the site, and that's where it's important.
Speaker 8 (13:03):
It is pushing the other side of this.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
It is actually promoting the All Blacks and New Zealand rugby,
but that's not an investment that it can continue at
the same level. It was not providing commercial return because
otherwise it's just increasing the losses for New Zealand rugby.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It's Colin Smith regular on the program. He is a
advisor to sports rights negotiation globally, looking at particularly in
z plus, where it hopes to go, where it may
not go. How long it's worth sticking around for, how
long to ins dig their heels and before they go
(13:59):
this is working before they go? You know what, We've
got to stick to our anything we will run rugby.
Not content interesting discussion Colin there that it's a very
difficult thing to do. It's almost likely just cut it
loose and go. You do it and I'll take a cut.
I don't know, we get your thoughts on that soon,
but before that, we now go to my old mate
(14:22):
Gregor Paul Rugby writer out of the New Zealand Herald,
to look at a similar issue, to look at the
money going out and coming in to Zenda as revealed
today by end Zider. He joins us now at seven
twenty one.
Speaker 9 (14:40):
Good ay, Gregor, Oh Darcy.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Crazy story today or crazy story in the fact that
they may have lost nineteen and a half million dollars,
but they did bill for twodred and eighty five million dollars.
So it's a good news and a bad news story.
Speaker 9 (14:55):
Right, Well, no, it's a bad news story.
Speaker 7 (15:00):
I like the fact that they made or generated two
hundred and eighty five million dollars a revenue is being
overplayed as a source of good news in my view. Look,
that is a good figure, don't get me wrong. However,
we've got to go and contrast and compare it with
previous numbers, pre Silver Lake, New Zealand Rugby's equity partner
(15:24):
coming into the business in twenty twenty two. Because the
reason that they came in and we're given the chance
to invest, was because they were going to make these
transformational shifts and revenue.
Speaker 9 (15:35):
So we were sold this idea.
Speaker 7 (15:37):
That revenue would climb in excess of I think the
initial forecast had revenue way in excess to three hundred
million by twenty twenty four, and it was two hundred
and eighty five, which is only I think off the
top of my head, I can't remember now. I think
it's about twelve percent increase on last year. But when
you look at where that increase came from, the majority
(16:00):
of it actually came from interest payments that New Zealand
Rugby received as a result of having Silver Lakes money
in the back. So the biggest growth of revenue was interest.
Now that's not a great story when you get down
to it, and that is not fitting in with a
picture that we were sold three years ago. So I
(16:23):
don't think it's good news bad news. I think it's
bad news, bad news.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Extrapolate this as far as Silver Lakes engagement, what they
actually bring, what they've done, if anything? What do we
learn about their involvement in this through these results.
Speaker 7 (16:39):
Well, I'll make this answer very short. The answer to
what have they brought? Nothing?
Speaker 9 (16:43):
You know, That's that's the sad part here.
Speaker 7 (16:45):
This is the warning that people like me and a
few others who weren't seduced by private equities sales pitch
always said was that they don't bring capability.
Speaker 9 (16:57):
They're not they're not rugby people, per see.
Speaker 7 (17:00):
They don't have a magic wand they don't actually have
the answers to the problems that newsand Rugby thinks that
it has. And if you look at it, you go, well, okay.
The revenue model that New Zealand Rugby presented today is
no different to the one that they've been following for
the last thirty years of professionalism. So they made their
(17:22):
money out of selling media rights, sponsorships and match day revenues,
which is what they've been doing forever. They played a
few games offshore and then the USA and Japan last year,
but they've been doing that for the last ten or
fifteen years as well. So there's nothing new in what
silver Lake have brought to the table. They haven't changed
anything except for the fact that they've parked money in
(17:45):
New Zealand's bank account. But of course, as much as
you know, New Zealand is benefiting from that, they also
have to pay interest on that loan, so we're in
a sort of truly ridiculous position where New Zealand banks
twelve million in interest or fourteen million in interest, but
has to pay twelve million back in interest to silver Lake.
Speaker 9 (18:06):
And I am honestly.
Speaker 7 (18:07):
Thinking if an eight year old came up with us
as a financial model in a primary school project, you
would smile nicely and try and redirect them into coming
up with a better idea.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Talking about silver Lake back in the day when this occurred,
do I just think they're a members saying, hey, this
is Shakespeare, this is Merchant to Venice, and Silverlake are Shylock,
and they will get their pound of flesh. Don't you worry.
They're in this for money, They're not in this for
the goodness of rugby. And you talked about people are
being seduced by that concept and it did work, which
(18:39):
brings me to my next point around this. When you
look at their NZR plus, which is probably part of
this brave new world of silver Lake, which appears to
have not made a great deal of money, if any,
it's costing them a fortune. How long is their piece
of rope? How long before a group that are a
(18:59):
rugby organization who really should stick to rugby, stick to
their knitting. Realize they're not broad casters, they can't make content,
and maybe their upcoming agreement with Sky has to work
along that track. They're spreading themselves to things is not
what they do, right.
Speaker 9 (19:17):
Oh, I couldn't agree with you more, Darcy. That's absolutely right.
Speaker 7 (19:21):
It is a staggering amount of money and for people
like you and I either work in the media industry
not I'm not being facetious, I'm being absolutely genuine.
Speaker 9 (19:31):
When you start to think about twelve.
Speaker 7 (19:34):
Million dollars got invested in NZR plus last year. Now
you start to think what twelve million dollars would feel
like coming into the Herald's newsroom or zb's newsroom, and
what you be able to do with that money, because
we're currently living in an existential crisis as media people.
And you look at that and go, wow, if we
had that amount of money, that the results could be
(19:55):
extraordinary with what we could do. And then you look
at New Zealand Rugby and go to your point, they're
not they're not broadcast people. So they look at so
they've got execs who have got literally no idea what
they are talking about in the space in my view,
and they say things, oh, we've got, you know, one
billion views on YouTube, and I go, whooputty, do you've
(20:15):
probably got You could put an all black Hakker video
and maybe a best of highlight highlights package, and I
guarantee you you'd probably get similar results. When we've got
social media influencers who on you know, around the world,
people going off to restaurants and tourism landmarks and they
produce TikTok videos and these guys are probably spending low
(20:37):
hundreds of thousands on their content production and driving millions
of dollars back and winning literally tens.
Speaker 9 (20:44):
Of millions of followers.
Speaker 7 (20:46):
So you start comparing and contrasting, know how you build
an audience with the budget that they've put at this
And there's no way can you tell me that this
is a good return on investment? And you know, to
your point, how long can they keep going? Not one
more day? If I'm the New Zealand Rugby Board, I
think you've got to slash that by by at least
(21:07):
ten million. And so here's two million dollars and even
that is wildly generous for an organization that simply doesn't
know what it's doing.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
And that is Gregor Paul Rugby, right Ford, New Zealand Herald.
Not a lot of gray area. And what Greg is
saying there, you get rid of ends at our plus.
Don't give them any money. They a rugby organization and
what do they know about platforms, broadcasting, monetizing and no nothing.
Well they'd probably go, no, you're wrong. We've got a
(21:48):
lot of experts in the trade and we know what
we're doing and we're looking long term, and long term
it might work. I don't know if historically, looking around,
there have been many organizations that have dragged money out
of places like silver Lake and turn to good profit
(22:13):
and it's been given back to them in a better state.
It's probably more like the opposite. I mean, it's a
lot of people we're concerned about. During Silverlake, I go
back to Shylock and getting as pound of flesh they will.
It's what they do. The money people. They can tell
you all the one they love the game and the
romance of the all Blacks and this mighty brand, and
they can spin these amazing tales on me. But they
(22:33):
only interested in money. That's it, nothing else. And we
were all interested in money. But I think that nz
R should generate as much as they can, absolutely, but
try not to spend more than you get, and when
you do, be judicious with it. I think it's a
one in a prayer running into this the seeds R plus. Look,
(22:55):
it's not aimed at me, it's not aimed at you,
It's aimed at the untapped market overseas, which brings me
to the conclusion you inz are and to a degree,
Silver Lake, do they think the All Black footprint is
(23:19):
considerably larger than it actually is? Maybe injed are wound
into this by Silver like the All Black's famous brand.
It's huge, they're winning, They're this, they're that, They're that.
Is that actually the case? The footprint of rugby would
be a lot bigger. Maybe that's to be the focus.
(23:40):
And I am unsure if tapping all of this income
into ns r plas to try and tap into that
untapped potential is a good idea. You run rugby rugby,
you're not on the broadcast platform. Give it to someone else,
(24:03):
take a cut and they'll make it work. There are
people out there that do this for a living for money.
They're really good at it that I'll just sell it
all to the zonne and walk off and just take
all the pressure off. You focus on your core task.
Like the couriers deliver the package. That's all you got
to do, right. Maybe I'm just too simplistic. Seven thirty
(24:27):
This is sports talk on News Talk z B. How
do you feel about n j R and what they're
trying to do here? Do you just shut it and
got care? I just want to see rugby. Is that
actually quite important? Because I think that David Kirk hit
(24:48):
the nail on the head. He is the most sensible
guy in the room. What did he say? Nothing to
do with money engagement, that's our problem. We're going to
work on that. Nay, A true word spoken, keep it simple.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Oh I get this in with my.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
So a couple of questions out of this song Darcy
by the way, welcome to use or be thanks for
your time late one hundred and eighty ten eighty context
nineteen nine two. There's z B z B A New
Zealand Rugby laboring under the misapprehension that the All Blacks
are massive globally. They think they can expand it and
(26:06):
make it bigger. And I get that that's the the
untapped territory that maybe got rustled somewhat by Silver Lake.
It's big. It's huge out there. You've got the potential
to make all this money and we can help. They haven't,
but they do. You think we think the All Blacks
are how bigger than they actually are? But maybe they're
small fried globally. But we're blinded by this because they
(26:29):
had such a great winning record. They've got the black jersey,
they've got their history, they had to dad. I think
they've overestimated the appeal of the All Blacks. And if
you've lived overseas experience that tell me, oh, eight hundred
eighty ten eighty. Look, how big are they? It's a
(26:50):
big selling point and rugby's probably bigger than the All
Blacks itself. And there's quite a few texts around the
competency of the management of New Zealand rugby. So my
other questions behind the footprint, what do you as a
rugby fan see? As inz Our's Prime focus. I often
(27:16):
complain about courier companies losing packages because that's their job,
your one job, get a package from Made to be.
We've lost it. How it's like prisoners prisons that let
prisoners out. You've got one job, mate, keep them inside.
How did you escape. So what's the one job? What
do you want to see from z R? What's the
important thing here from you as a punter, as a
(27:38):
new Zealander, because you can't tell me what you want
as far as their platform is concerned, because not aimed
at us, they've already got us with sky and now
that goes.
Speaker 9 (27:47):
Who knows.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Instre plus is not about us, It's about the overseas market.
I don't think they can fill the content myself, but
not by themselves sell It's a d A in Z
So what is their primary reason for existence? For inst
are in your eyes? Eight hundred eighty ten eighty And
(28:12):
if they or we grossly overestimated the appeal and the
potential of all blacks globally, I think they probably have.
I look, I stand to be corrected. They would have
done a lot more or you'd think a lot more
examination of this before they started tipping a hole lot
(28:35):
of money into it. But when silverlight did turn up
a lot of warnings out there, don't do this, but
they did still afloat, not sunk yet kind of let's
run through the text lines I'd love to hear from you.
I eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty overestimated the
all black effects globally. What's their purpose? Very very simple?
(28:58):
What endz are do? They managed rugby in New Zealand.
There you go, rugby in New Zealand and they've got
paid for it somehow granted. So how did it work
out that they suddenly are not earning as much money
as they're spending to the chine of nearly three hundred
(29:19):
million dollars? How does that work? What do they do
with it?
Speaker 8 (29:23):
Lunch?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty let's go to a
handful of texts before the calls come rolling in Darcy
VNSI were a competently run business, the board would sack
the CEO and the CFO for poor performance. Any other
businesses lost money three years in a row would make
drastic changes to the business model. Thank you, Steve. South
(29:46):
Africa left and the money left. Quite simple, rights Van,
thank you very much for that. Hi Glenn, how are
you in this space?
Speaker 8 (29:57):
You're will yeah?
Speaker 10 (29:59):
Could you?
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
No, not so but a bit confused. It seems all
a bit overpowering. It probably shouldn't be, should it.
Speaker 10 (30:05):
I shouldn't be talking about the financial position of You're
going to rugby. I think that like any is pulled
out of the All Blacks as well as the National
Storage pulled out of the Hurricanes Woman's means game. There's
a lot of sponsorship gone there because of the political
(30:28):
dance renting before the games and that All Blacks game
with p J pre and Hour and that woman from
the Hurricanes.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, they're upset a couple of people that probably would
have that's that's much smaller beans, although the Hurricanes is
it's not because they need as many beans as they
can get. They're struggling.
Speaker 10 (30:49):
National Storage sponsored them for years and years and years,
and there it's not on the on the jerseys, on
the memes all Woman's thing and well.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
I don't know how that happened. Maybe they just said
they had no money because we are in a bit
of a squeeze right now. No one's got any cash.
So I kind of understand that, whether they directly reacting to.
Speaker 10 (31:06):
Something happening on the now, so some of them said
the money, I think National Surance are not going broke
down in Australia and then New Zealand work, but then
pulled the head of the Hurricanes and they got more.
They got shedloads of.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
It disaster and that's been drop keicked to the side.
They've got compensation. Now they've climbed on board with Toyota,
which strikes me as a much better bid.
Speaker 9 (31:32):
Pal.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I love rugby. They're extremely reliable.
Speaker 10 (31:38):
They're only on these socks, not only a jersey.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Well, I think the training jerseys and these shorts or
what up for grabs because I'm altred are on the
jerseys themselves. Watching I was watching a demand on then
a rugby talk show James Parsons is very good and
(32:05):
she had a top on it said any of us
on the sleeve? Look, it can't last long. Just like that,
suddenly it got blurred out, which is good. Whoever broadcast
that new guan? What do you think around? What is
the you on rugby's purpose? What do they do?
Speaker 10 (32:22):
Well? Didn't they put it come to all the rugby
unions throughout the country and they had a vote on
it and one of the things was to get rid
of that Mark Robinson?
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, but what do they do though? Injured are as
an entity? What do you what are your expectations for?
We know what you want with the Blacks, right, you
want them to win? What about the overarching company that
run or what do you want from them?
Speaker 10 (32:41):
Well, it's not just the all Blacks, it's the whole,
the whole nine yards, you know, all the provinces, all
the women and kids teams. That sends it outd the lot,
but definitely doing something wrong because I watched, well I'm down,
I live in the South Forum, but I watched the
Auckland the Blues playing now one of the Pacific teams
last week and there's only about four pairs and there
(33:02):
four and a half fairs, and it's just why bother?
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, I think that eyeballs and screens and beble home
their living rooms probably a lot more important to the
fishheads and the bean counters than people up the grounds.
People don't really go to sports much these days, do they,
unless it's a big occasion.
Speaker 10 (33:21):
I don't know. Well, i'd save money by not getting
so many cleaners to clean all the seats on one
side for the camera.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Good on you, Glenn. Hey, thanks very much of you call.
Great to have you on board. It is seven forty
two John complaining about the North Sydney sorry, the North
Perth Bears that should be called the Quakers. Someone's texted
and darc You know the Los Angeles Lakers were originally
the Minnesota Lakers, Minnesota being the land of a thousand lakes. Yeah,
(33:52):
but JT the Oakland Raiders, where are they now? Vegas
or something. It's not unusual for American teams to buy
the franchise and move it.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
But this.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Darcy, they're not big at all. In Australia, rugby's fourth
on the list. In Sun New Zealand, the basketball is
the biggest growing sport. How do we know that? But
globally the All Blacks a bigger draw cutters. We've been
need to believe by Ja and Silver Ake. This is
(34:30):
news Talks here b seventeen away from eight. Tasabeth Milner
joins us Sumer, talking hoops American asion. I think guy
(34:56):
left him somewhere, Semi boy six. It's little bit of
basketball now. Three double headers between the Opals and the
All Ferns and the Tall Blacks and the Boomers first
double hitdles yesterday were joined now by TAYM Miller Smith as.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
We talk about get at hey, how are you going?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
I'm going, well, what about yourselves? Let's look back at
that game last night. You got off to an absolute
snorter of a start. It was slow, wasn't it? Two
minutes without any buckets whatsoever? But then you guys really
got into your work and then they kind of came back.
So what happened just described to us that transition between
the first quarters.
Speaker 11 (35:37):
Yeah, well, obviously we were trying to put a lot
of pressure on them in terms of getting up and
down the court pretty quickly. They've obviously didn't train as
much as we did, but I think we just kind
of lost our way a little bit there towards the
end of the game, in the second half specifically. But yeah,
a lot to learn from that game, and there's some
(35:59):
great things that happened obviously, but yeah, a lot of
work ons to do for game two, and thankfully we
got a quick turn around and be able to adjust
on the fly for tomorrow's game.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
What is the good? What did Judd Flavel saydie? What
was he impressed with toy?
Speaker 11 (36:16):
Obviously the first half, there's a lot there to go
back and look at and think that we did a
pretty good job. Our pace was really good. We don't
think they can keep up with us in that terms.
But you know, guys like Shae and Taylor when they
get out and be able to run the court like
they do at a high level. Great be able to
(36:37):
see that, and for a guy like myself being in
pick and rolls with Shaye and Taylor and I get
to I guess in a way, just pick up scrap
points wherever they need it.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
That fast break concept, is that something you've been walking on,
working on to try and run the legs off these assies.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 11 (36:54):
We're just like to transition from them scoring or usk
getting a defensive rebound to pushing it the other way
has been a very big emphasis. Obviously, we haven't We
don't have weeks and weeks to be able to be
with the stamina or endurance that obviously we want to
sustain for the whole game. But it's slowly getting there.
(37:15):
There's obviously a lot of things that we can go
back and.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
Look at and say we could have changed this, could
have changed that.
Speaker 11 (37:21):
But you know the best thing for us now is
to just look ahead, go watch some film and be
able to try to replicate the first half for longer.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
I guess in the next game.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
And Ruben Tarangi, he said that maybe he's getting a
bit long in the tooth but there's a lot of
young fresh legs out there and that should help. And
I mean, you played that fast break game and some
of the newer guys boundless energy. You must be jealously.
Speaker 11 (37:47):
Yeah, it's kind of weird being in these camps now
because I feel like it was only last year that
i was one of the young boys, but now I'm
considered one of the older ones.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Now we older one of the vets. But no, it's cool.
Speaker 11 (38:01):
They bring a different energy which is great to see. Obviously,
I've got a few of my teammates from the Rams
here and seeing those guys being able to get out
on the court and give it a crack, and yeah,
it's great to see they. Like I said, they bring
a whole different energy source older guys, and we kind
of have toy bring our level.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Up as well as much as we bring their level
up as well.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Walter Brown had some impressive buckets in that game. There
was one that I remember like it's late at night
for me, but he absolutely looked the goods. These guys
got energy, there's a there's a rear talent that break.
Speaker 11 (38:35):
Yeah, no, he's I mean being able to see him
play this year's and over the years, he's taken huge
leaps forward and it's great to see. And I think
everyone on this team this year is obviously going on
to play on bigger teams now and it's great to
see that. Obviously, we've got some college guys like Julius
(38:55):
and Oscar Simon Jackson obviously on their way to college
over the next year, and being able to see those
guys grow as players as well as humans is great
to see.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, I've had a couple of chats with Jackson ball.
He's he's a very confident young man, isn't he.
Speaker 11 (39:15):
Yeah, No, he definitely knows where his shots are and
it's great to see. Been watching being the last window
with him and seeing how much he's taken a step
forward and these last couple of months has been really
cool to see.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Also, it's probably worth focusing on Shay. He's been around
for a long time, but he's not really showing signs
of aging. He's got quality right over the court, in back,
doesn't matter where he is, that guy's goal.
Speaker 8 (39:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (39:44):
No, I mean I've known Chasin Jesus l breakers academy
days over twelve years ago, so seeing him change and
develop has been pretty cool. To see and he's a
world class talent. And what he does on the cord,
I don't think there's many people that are able to
do what he does on the defensive end as well
(40:05):
as the offensive end. Yeah, it's even better being on
his team and not having to try to screen them
like we're do in the NBL, because it's an absolute
nightmare trying to do. Having them on my side now
has been pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
What is that ability? Is it just the speed?
Speaker 9 (40:22):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Is it angles? Is it what he does? What makes
him such a handful and defensive end?
Speaker 4 (40:28):
I think it goes back to his rugby days.
Speaker 11 (40:30):
Like he's very agile, he's light on his feet, and
he's very bloody strong. So even when he switches onto Becas,
he's still able to be able to put up a
really good fight with that as a hard person to
play against, but even better to play with.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
So he's Smith Milner. I got the wrong way round.
It's my lady here. Last name is Milner. So I've
just got it stuck in my brain. I can't help myself,
not that she looks anything like.
Speaker 8 (41:15):
It is.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Seven minutes to eight Sports still here and news Talk ZB.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
For minutes.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Thanks for listening to sports talking, news talks b you
want more of that on a weekdaily basis, We've got
the Sports Fixed podcast. Subscribe comes straight to your inbox
of a weekday afternoon. He's Arabia's hunging themselves by going
woke embracing women's rugby. It's completely revenue negative. It's a
(41:55):
massive virtue signal. It's the problem, go woke, go break,
blah blah, and here we are. I know you don't
like that position, but it's the lay of the land
out here, Simon. The problem is the only growth theory
in New Zealand rugby is the women's game. That's it.
That's the growth theory. And you can sit around ignore
that all you want, or you can work through it,
(42:17):
embrace it and try and make some money out of it.
But you can't make any money out of unless you
invest in the first place, like he's ata plus what
I'm serious And I've had so many texts like that tonight.
The other phant in the room is you know the
amount of money you spend on women and it doesn't
bring any money back, and it's bleeding money, and it's
(42:38):
the growth theory in New Zealand rugby it needs to
be looked at, it needs to be looked after. Nuts
if you don't. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Thanks and Smells for producing the show. I'm Darcy Wallergrave.
I'm going home
Speaker 1 (42:55):
For more from sports talk, Listen live to news Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
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