Outgoing New Zealand Rugby boss Mark Robinson believes he's leaving the game in a better place than he found it.
He's confirmed he will leave the job at the end of the year - bringing to an end a six-year tenure that started just before the Covid-19 pandemic.
Robinson joined Piney to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncie Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Rugby Chief executive Mark Robinson is leaving the role at
the end of this year. It'll bring to an end
and almost six year tenure, which included the COVID pandemic
right at the start of it and significant change during it,
including the introduction of the Silver Lake equity deal. Mark
Robinson plans to relocate to Australia, where his family are
currently living. He joins US now, Mark, thanks for your
(00:35):
time on sports Talk tonight. How long have you been
mulling this over?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Hi, Penny and hild listeners. I look probably over the
last a couple of months. As you rightly said, you know,
my family has been based over in Australia for a
little bit longer than that, and when I waged up,
you know, the fact that I wasn't you know, I'm
not able to see a lot of them at the moment,
had a pretty critical stage of our children's life and
(01:02):
of our stage of family, combined with what I guess
that remaining six months of the year looked like in
the critical opportunities around trying to create a new financial
model for the game domestically here in New Zealand, and
finish off all of that work that we've been doing
with the international calendar. Those two things ideally coming to
(01:22):
a conclusion. Then this thing to you know, perfect time
to step away.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Just want to unpack a couple of those things at
a moment. But in general terms, how do you reflect
on your five and a half years in the role
up to this point?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
In general terms, I look incredibly proud Piney. You know,
as you said it was it was an extremely challenging start.
I think I was a few weeks in when COVID
hit overseas at the time with international meetings coming back
into New Zealand soon to be lockdown, was a really
challenging start, and you know, we said certainly was an
(01:56):
impact on the organization, the way the sport ran and people.
You know, we lost a lot of very good people
during that time. But you know, I look the way
we've come back, and I'm also extremely proud with what
we've done, be it you know, commercial revenue growth, but
the way we've led a lot of law reform which
we're seeing play through now with our on field product
(02:17):
around Super Rugby. Sort of unprescented investment into the community
game and getting back to community numbers which are at
those pre pre COVID levels. We've led a lot of
the work on the global stage around player welfare and
and banning concussion research, and we've grown our fan base
(02:38):
internationally clearly, you know, and we're seeing some of the
fruition of that coming through with the revenue growth we're
seeing at the moment by virtue of the teams being
involved in different markets around the world, which again is
an initiative we've led globally. So I'm really proud. There's
still you know, I think in any case in this role, Pioney,
you would have sort of you know, I would have
things that could could be better or different, and there's
(03:01):
always something to do. But the time field was right
for me.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
You mentioned, and yeah, nobody would would wish that as
a start of a tenure on anybody. But as you say,
you came through it. What were the other most challenging
parts of the role for you.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Look, any any time where we're working through significant change
processes or doing things which were a departure from the
way they'd been done historically, and clearly taking an investment
from an investment partner to invest in the future of fans,
both domestically and globally. And that's what the Silver investment
(03:40):
was about, really was about creating opportunities to create differently
and in a better way with fans. That was certainly,
you know, challenging any any change process, as I said,
you know is, but certainly something that was that different
was you know, we worked through changes around the All
Blacks and we were very clear in our decision making
(04:01):
that you know, preserving the best interests of the team
and taking a team approach winning and getting the best
performances out of them was where we had our major folks.
So we made some calls there which we absolutely stand by.
And we also made a call in terms of the
future appointment with Scott's which was again a departure from
(04:25):
the past, but we felt needed to happen and missing
you know, the benefits Now then, when I look at
national team environments, with the way the All Blacks, Black Ferns,
sevens and fifteens are all connecting and working together, the
interaction we had with superclubs and that sort of thing,
there's a great deal of alignment and collaboration in that area,
which has been really positive as well. So there were definite,
(04:46):
definite challenges around some big decisions, but I think in
the fullness of time, when we look at the things
that I just described coming out of the back of
that and where we sit now, I'm really positive about.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, you touched on the All Blacks coaching change, which
I wanted to ask about, and I think we can
probably all agree that the outcome was the right one.
Are you happy with the way that process played out,
how it was conducted?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Oh? Look, you know, there was certainly some There was
certainly frustration, wasn't he boy in terms of some of
the decisions around their actions, But by and large, in
terms of that we arrived at the decisions. There were
two aspects of this. One was to get the team
(05:29):
in a position to win the World Cup, and we
pushed really hard to have the posing of the final
by a point. But by and large, we felt like
we gave the team every chance to succeed with the
team they had around them from a coaching perspective. And
then we wanted to obviously think about the medium to
long term, and we felt the time was right to
think about why to change there and yes, you know,
(05:53):
I think that was the right process and the right decision.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Not just around that, but across the entire length of
your tenure. If you had your time again, is there
anything you would do differently?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I think on uh, you know, on a day to
day basis, we're working through, you know, processes on big protects.
There's always time Piney where you would think you know
differently about you know, the way you work through things.
But in terms of, you know, the decision to take investment,
(06:26):
to invest in fans and create some resilience around the game,
that's given us, you know, a balance sheet where we
clearly have options now to do make choices in any
range of different areas. And we were definitely probably ahead
of our well, we were ahead of our time as
it related to doing that, but behind a lot of
other sports and codes and franchises who have been doing
(06:48):
this for years in terms of vesting in fans, and
that's one of the challenges that rugby has to be
catching up in a lot of those areas. So so
the overall principle and behind the decision stand by, but
there's always things you could do slightly differently. And if
you're talking about the All Blacks decision exec exactly the
same stand behind you know, the outcomes that we had.
There's always things within those processes that might be managed
(07:10):
slightly differently.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
You touched on it earlier that the pride you feel,
what are you proudest of?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I just think the overall you know, change in our
sport and the direction that we're heading in, in the
excitement I have for you know, the future of the game,
There'll always been significant challenges, finny, people you know reflect
on our game, you know, often through the lens of
how it used to be. You know, if we go
(07:39):
back through you know, well into last century and through
that time where you know, our society was completely different
than our media cycles aside, it's so different. The amount
of rival codes in New Zealand was so different. So
it is always going to be different and evolving now.
But I think the way we've tried to initiate and
(07:59):
drive change in a range of areas and their overall
principle of that as part of my leadership, I've been
proud of it. As your point, for it doesn't mean
we've got everything absolutely right along the way, because change
in a traditional sport, that's one hundred and thirty years old,
like ours, is always going to have challenges as it
relates to change. But when I think of the big
(08:21):
markers in our sport now, the recent revenue growth and
the announcements around Toyota and Gallagher's global partners recently, the
product we've got on display with super Uggy Pacific has
been phenomenal and the best if not ever for many
many years. The work we're doing in the community game,
we were leading change in terms of formats and rules
(08:42):
to make sure that you know, the sport is more
tailored to the participant. The calendar we've started in terms
of the international calendar for the next five years as
a phenomenal calendar around South Africa, All Blacks Tours, the
Nation's carp two Lines two is here, the inaugural Women's
lines too. We pushed hard for the growth of women's
rugby overall pointed we could always do more in that space,
(09:04):
but the change and traductory of change that space has
been incredibly positive. So you know, the whole lot of
highlights for me there, but it's probably that overall tenor
we've tried really hard to introduce change and acknowledge that
the fans and the participants should be right at the
center of that.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
So you've got to finish line now. So what will
the next six months hold for you?
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Well, I'm as I said, the two key areas are
looking at the domestic model. The financial model of the
game in New Zealand is really important to us. We've
grown revenue, as I say, by well over sixty percent
on a perandom basis, you know, over the last few years,
but we've got a historical cost model which is hard
(09:49):
to make work. So we're getting all our stakeholders together
at the moment, I think there's a really keen appetite
to try and address that model, to get us on
a more sustainable footing more more regularly. And then the
international calendar we've done a lot of good work again
is another area. Would like to tidy up all these competitions,
lock them in for twenty six and beyond. And then
the Black Ferns obviously, you know, we're really looking forward
(10:12):
to supporting that campaign where we can and making sure
they're well resourced and we can do everything that we
can to help them win. The probably the three things
that stand out, but you know, alongside that, you know
We've got things like broadcast deals. We've got all Blacks
with another massive campaign. We've got a whole lot of
great stuff for rolling out in communities. We've got to
debrief our Super Rugby Pacific Tournament and take some learnings
(10:33):
and make sure we grow year on year on that.
There's the work need have done, and there's always something
to get better at. But I'm pretty satisfied with a
lot of things and the growth of those in the
last few years.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Ponty, Are we close to a new broadcast deal?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
We're getting there. Yeah. I'll give you the same sort
of boring artswer I've given a lot of people today. Unfortunately,
you know that we're chipping away and it's really constructive.
So hopefully we've got more to report and we'll talk
about that when we.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Can look forward to that. So you'll reacquaint yourself with
your family early in twenty twenty six on a full
time basis. What about after that? I mean, you're not
just going to sit on the couch for the rest
of your life. I wouldn't imagine what do you what
do you reckon? You might do next?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Look, I hadn't thought too much about it, Piney. You know,
I'm really focused on finishing well and really making sure
we deliver on those few projects that I talked about earlier.
I guess as it gets closer to the end of
the year, you know, I might turn my attention to
a little bit more. But yeah, I'm looking forward to
(11:31):
a break with with and over and the kids over
Christmas and into the new year and in Australia, and
then yeah, we'll see what. We'll see what pops into
the into the introin maybe, or see what caps ups
conversations between now and then.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
A career in broadcasting perhaps, who knows.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I don't know if that's so, and there's really good
people doing it, didn't you know that.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Now I'll see if I can find some I'll see
if I can find some Mark. Thanks for joining us today. Look,
I know I'm no doubt that you'll sprint towards that
finish line with a busy six months ahead. Thanks for
being accessible. There's always we'll catch up, no doubt before
you do. Before you do.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Depart, Thanks Tony, and thanks to all the listeners out
there for the love of the game, and thanks also
for you for staying engaged and curious about a sport.
I really appreciate the chances.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
We'll have to check with you too, No thanks indeed,
Mark Mark Robinson then leaving his role as New Zealand
Rugby CEO at the end of twenty twenty five, so
I guess recruitment now starts in earnest. There will be
many many, I'm sure, dusting off their CV to have
a crack at that role. Pretty high profile, pretty what's
(12:40):
the word prestigious, I think is probably the word of
after pretty prestigious but high pressure under the spotlight. But
there will be a lot of people having a crack
at it.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
For more from sports talk, listen lived and news talks.
There'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on aheartradio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncie Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Rugby Chief executive Mark Robinson is leaving the role at
the end of this year. It'll bring to an end
and almost six year tenure, which included the COVID pandemic
right at the start of it and significant change during it,
including the introduction of the Silver Lake equity deal. Mark
Robinson plans to relocate to Australia, where his family are
currently living. He joins US now, Mark, thanks for your
(00:35):
time on sports Talk tonight. How long have you been
mulling this over?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Hi, Penny and hild listeners. I look probably over the
last a couple of months. As you rightly said, you know,
my family has been based over in Australia for a
little bit longer than that, and when I waged up,
you know, the fact that I wasn't you know, I'm
not able to see a lot of them at the moment,
had a pretty critical stage of our children's life and
(01:02):
of our stage of family, combined with what I guess
that remaining six months of the year looked like in
the critical opportunities around trying to create a new financial
model for the game domestically here in New Zealand, and
finish off all of that work that we've been doing
with the international calendar. Those two things ideally coming to
(01:22):
a conclusion. Then this thing to you know, perfect time
to step away.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Just want to unpack a couple of those things at
a moment. But in general terms, how do you reflect
on your five and a half years in the role
up to this point?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
In general terms, I look incredibly proud Piney. You know,
as you said it was it was an extremely challenging start.
I think I was a few weeks in when COVID
hit overseas at the time with international meetings coming back
into New Zealand soon to be lockdown, was a really
challenging start, and you know, we said certainly was an
(01:56):
impact on the organization, the way the sport ran and people.
You know, we lost a lot of very good people
during that time. But you know, I look the way
we've come back, and I'm also extremely proud with what
we've done, be it you know, commercial revenue growth, but
the way we've led a lot of law reform which
we're seeing play through now with our on field product
(02:17):
around Super Rugby. Sort of unprescented investment into the community
game and getting back to community numbers which are at
those pre pre COVID levels. We've led a lot of
the work on the global stage around player welfare and
and banning concussion research, and we've grown our fan base
(02:38):
internationally clearly, you know, and we're seeing some of the
fruition of that coming through with the revenue growth we're
seeing at the moment by virtue of the teams being
involved in different markets around the world, which again is
an initiative we've led globally. So I'm really proud. There's
still you know, I think in any case in this role, Pioney,
you would have sort of you know, I would have
things that could could be better or different, and there's
(03:01):
always something to do. But the time field was right
for me.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
You mentioned, and yeah, nobody would would wish that as
a start of a tenure on anybody. But as you say,
you came through it. What were the other most challenging
parts of the role for you.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Look, any any time where we're working through significant change
processes or doing things which were a departure from the
way they'd been done historically, and clearly taking an investment
from an investment partner to invest in the future of fans,
both domestically and globally. And that's what the Silver investment
(03:40):
was about, really was about creating opportunities to create differently
and in a better way with fans. That was certainly,
you know, challenging any any change process, as I said,
you know is, but certainly something that was that different
was you know, we worked through changes around the All
Blacks and we were very clear in our decision making
(04:01):
that you know, preserving the best interests of the team
and taking a team approach winning and getting the best
performances out of them was where we had our major folks.
So we made some calls there which we absolutely stand by.
And we also made a call in terms of the
future appointment with Scott's which was again a departure from
(04:25):
the past, but we felt needed to happen and missing
you know, the benefits Now then, when I look at
national team environments, with the way the All Blacks, Black Ferns,
sevens and fifteens are all connecting and working together, the
interaction we had with superclubs and that sort of thing,
there's a great deal of alignment and collaboration in that area,
which has been really positive as well. So there were definite,
(04:46):
definite challenges around some big decisions, but I think in
the fullness of time, when we look at the things
that I just described coming out of the back of
that and where we sit now, I'm really positive about.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, you touched on the All Blacks coaching change, which
I wanted to ask about, and I think we can
probably all agree that the outcome was the right one.
Are you happy with the way that process played out,
how it was conducted?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Oh? Look, you know, there was certainly some There was
certainly frustration, wasn't he boy in terms of some of
the decisions around their actions, But by and large, in
terms of that we arrived at the decisions. There were
two aspects of this. One was to get the team
(05:29):
in a position to win the World Cup, and we
pushed really hard to have the posing of the final
by a point. But by and large, we felt like
we gave the team every chance to succeed with the
team they had around them from a coaching perspective. And
then we wanted to obviously think about the medium to
long term, and we felt the time was right to
think about why to change there and yes, you know,
(05:53):
I think that was the right process and the right decision.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Not just around that, but across the entire length of
your tenure. If you had your time again, is there
anything you would do differently?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I think on uh, you know, on a day to
day basis, we're working through, you know, processes on big protects.
There's always time Piney where you would think you know
differently about you know, the way you work through things.
But in terms of, you know, the decision to take investment,
(06:26):
to invest in fans and create some resilience around the game,
that's given us, you know, a balance sheet where we
clearly have options now to do make choices in any
range of different areas. And we were definitely probably ahead
of our well, we were ahead of our time as
it related to doing that, but behind a lot of
other sports and codes and franchises who have been doing
(06:48):
this for years in terms of vesting in fans, and
that's one of the challenges that rugby has to be
catching up in a lot of those areas. So so
the overall principle and behind the decision stand by, but
there's always things you could do slightly differently. And if
you're talking about the All Blacks decision exec exactly the
same stand behind you know, the outcomes that we had.
There's always things within those processes that might be managed
(07:10):
slightly differently.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
You touched on it earlier that the pride you feel,
what are you proudest of?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I just think the overall you know, change in our
sport and the direction that we're heading in, in the
excitement I have for you know, the future of the game,
There'll always been significant challenges, finny, people you know reflect
on our game, you know, often through the lens of
how it used to be. You know, if we go
(07:39):
back through you know, well into last century and through
that time where you know, our society was completely different
than our media cycles aside, it's so different. The amount
of rival codes in New Zealand was so different. So
it is always going to be different and evolving now.
But I think the way we've tried to initiate and
(07:59):
drive change in a range of areas and their overall
principle of that as part of my leadership, I've been
proud of it. As your point, for it doesn't mean
we've got everything absolutely right along the way, because change
in a traditional sport, that's one hundred and thirty years old,
like ours, is always going to have challenges as it
relates to change. But when I think of the big
(08:21):
markers in our sport now, the recent revenue growth and
the announcements around Toyota and Gallagher's global partners recently, the
product we've got on display with super Uggy Pacific has
been phenomenal and the best if not ever for many
many years. The work we're doing in the community game,
we were leading change in terms of formats and rules
(08:42):
to make sure that you know, the sport is more
tailored to the participant. The calendar we've started in terms
of the international calendar for the next five years as
a phenomenal calendar around South Africa, All Blacks Tours, the
Nation's carp two Lines two is here, the inaugural Women's
lines too. We pushed hard for the growth of women's
rugby overall pointed we could always do more in that space,
(09:04):
but the change and traductory of change that space has
been incredibly positive. So you know, the whole lot of
highlights for me there, but it's probably that overall tenor
we've tried really hard to introduce change and acknowledge that
the fans and the participants should be right at the
center of that.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
So you've got to finish line now. So what will
the next six months hold for you?
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Well, I'm as I said, the two key areas are
looking at the domestic model. The financial model of the
game in New Zealand is really important to us. We've
grown revenue, as I say, by well over sixty percent
on a perandom basis, you know, over the last few years,
but we've got a historical cost model which is hard
(09:49):
to make work. So we're getting all our stakeholders together
at the moment, I think there's a really keen appetite
to try and address that model, to get us on
a more sustainable footing more more regularly. And then the
international calendar we've done a lot of good work again
is another area. Would like to tidy up all these competitions,
lock them in for twenty six and beyond. And then
the Black Ferns obviously, you know, we're really looking forward
(10:12):
to supporting that campaign where we can and making sure
they're well resourced and we can do everything that we
can to help them win. The probably the three things
that stand out, but you know, alongside that, you know
We've got things like broadcast deals. We've got all Blacks
with another massive campaign. We've got a whole lot of
great stuff for rolling out in communities. We've got to
debrief our Super Rugby Pacific Tournament and take some learnings
(10:33):
and make sure we grow year on year on that.
There's the work need have done, and there's always something
to get better at. But I'm pretty satisfied with a
lot of things and the growth of those in the
last few years.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Ponty, Are we close to a new broadcast deal?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
We're getting there. Yeah. I'll give you the same sort
of boring artswer I've given a lot of people today. Unfortunately,
you know that we're chipping away and it's really constructive.
So hopefully we've got more to report and we'll talk
about that when we.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Can look forward to that. So you'll reacquaint yourself with
your family early in twenty twenty six on a full
time basis. What about after that? I mean, you're not
just going to sit on the couch for the rest
of your life. I wouldn't imagine what do you what
do you reckon? You might do next?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Look, I hadn't thought too much about it, Piney. You know,
I'm really focused on finishing well and really making sure
we deliver on those few projects that I talked about earlier.
I guess as it gets closer to the end of
the year, you know, I might turn my attention to
a little bit more. But yeah, I'm looking forward to
(11:31):
a break with with and over and the kids over
Christmas and into the new year and in Australia, and
then yeah, we'll see what. We'll see what pops into
the into the introin maybe, or see what caps ups
conversations between now and then.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
A career in broadcasting perhaps, who knows.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I don't know if that's so, and there's really good
people doing it, didn't you know that.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Now I'll see if I can find some I'll see
if I can find some Mark. Thanks for joining us today. Look,
I know I'm no doubt that you'll sprint towards that
finish line with a busy six months ahead. Thanks for
being accessible. There's always we'll catch up, no doubt before
you do. Before you do.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Depart, Thanks Tony, and thanks to all the listeners out
there for the love of the game, and thanks also
for you for staying engaged and curious about a sport.
I really appreciate the chances.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
We'll have to check with you too, No thanks indeed,
Mark Mark Robinson then leaving his role as New Zealand
Rugby CEO at the end of twenty twenty five, so
I guess recruitment now starts in earnest. There will be
many many, I'm sure, dusting off their CV to have
a crack at that role. Pretty high profile, pretty what's
(12:40):
the word prestigious, I think is probably the word of
after pretty prestigious but high pressure under the spotlight. But
there will be a lot of people having a crack
at it.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
For more from sports talk, listen lived and news talks.
There'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on aheartradio
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