June 17, 2025 • 13 mins
What a season of Super Rugby it has been!
CEO Jack Mesley has been determined to improve the competition in the eyes of fans, and D'Arcy Waldegrave reckons he's had some success.
Jack spoke to D'Arcy on Sportstalk.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncie Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And we joined now by Jack Messy, CEO of Super
Rugby Pacific. After quite an uplifting year.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
You know, Jack, I had Arthur you well.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Good, it's the end of Super Rugby Pacific, only a
couple of days to go before you can. I suppose
put a bow on it and call it done widely.
When you're aflect back at the season, it's the CEO
of the competition. What is your initial takeaways as to
what occurred?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, well, I remember you and I talking pre season,
and you know what we're What we were talking about
there was that we wanted to play a fast, more
exciting brand a rugby. We wanted some more unexpected results
and we've seen in the past, and we wanted people
to have fun with some of the new tools that
we put into play, like fantasy. And so sitting here
(01:00):
with just the big dance yet to play out, yeah,
we're really pleased with how those three things have come
to life. Still a long way to go, We've still
got a heap of work to do, but we're really
pleased with how the season's gone.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So what has to happen between now and next season.
As far as what you need to do, you've got
anything in place as to the must do's, the must haves.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, well, I mean we're really we've already started work
on next season. That all starts with the fixture and
getting that right. So we think there's some little wins
to be had out of just sort of optimizing the fixture,
so we're working on those things. We've seen the benefit
this season of afternoon rugby, so we want to do
(01:42):
what we can to get more afternoon rugby played throughout
the fixture. And you know, there's some things like some
timeslots and things like that that we just need to
iron out for more consistency. We just got to make
it super easy for fans to know when a game
of Super rugby is on and you can tune in
at that time every week and watch a great game.
So it starts with the fixture. We've got a survey
(02:02):
out live now around Fantasy, so we're getting heaps of
feedback people about what da'd like to see with fantasy
next to you, so we'll continue to look to improve
on that. So, yeah, there's a couple of things where
we're looking at. It's been documented we're working hard to
try to make super Round reality in New Zealand, so
we hope that also becomes a really key part of
(02:23):
the fixture into twenty six.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Talk of benefits, how do they rear their head and
benefits for yourself, the competition, the clubs, the athletes, the
people at home or in the stands. What are you
looking at there?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, well, I mean that's the beauty of what we do, right,
It's the beauty in the curse because it's all of
those people, right. We want we want all of those
people to benefit from the work we do. And I
guess our role really is to prioritize, you know, the
things that we could do with the resources we have,
to drive the optimal benefit for all of those all
of those stakeholders, if you like, you know, I think
(02:58):
what we're really focused on is making sure that you know,
we've talked a lot about it, that the fan is
in the room with those other stakehold is when we're
making those decisions. So yeah, that's really really important for us,
and I hope people have felt and seen that this season,
and that's certainly our intent as we as we do
our work now to finalize what next to you looks like.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Before you look back at the year, we'll look back
only a few days ago. Mouthguard issues. Now, there'd be
a lot of people out there panicked that maybe that
might come into play come the final. It's the last
thing anyone needs. Have you got to the bottom of
the errant beeps if you will, what's happening there?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Jack, Yeah, we had got to the bottom of that issue.
It was nothing to do with the actual mouthguard technology itself.
It was a protocol issue, just in the transfer of
information from the people that sort of go that goes through.
So we've we've egned out that protocol ahead of the
weekend to make sure that the right being leads to
(04:00):
the right person going off to the assess So, yeah,
a slight error there that we've worked on and ironed out.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Judabars throughout the season. They're a coupley towards the end,
I think some people were flummixed around the nature of
qualifying for the finals period. I was okay with it
because in the end it didn't mean much the way
things transpired, but I know that created a bit of
a ruckus around how that was set up. Are you
(04:28):
looking at reinnovating, redoing, changing that at all.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah. I mean, we'll sit down and review the final
series as a whole at the completion of the season.
You know, I know there has been a bit of
chatter about it in particular, you know, the lucky loser
and how lucky should that loser be if you like,
and people sort of have been commenting that potentially one
and two should sit out of the first round of
(04:54):
the final. So we'll go away and we'll do it.
We'll do a full review of that and come back.
I mean, what I'm really confident in is that this
final series has delivered some unexpected results, which is which
is what we want. And if I'm bang on us
what super rugby has been criticized of in the past,
So we have had some pretty big upsets throughout the
(05:15):
final and some unbelievable rugby. So you know, as soon
as you're sitting out some teams, then you're potentially inviting
in more advantage into that rested team as long as
well as the home advantage. So all of these things
have to go into the meets and we'll do that
through the review. But we're listening and we're certainly taking
that on board as we'll do that review well.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Roots deep available when it comes to listening and talking
and reviewing. You mentioned the number of stakeholders involved in this.
Do you talk with the people who run the various
franchise that captains the broadcasters? Who do you actually look
to sit down and talk to over this review process?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Good, good, good question. Yeah. We will start with our
clubs and then so we'll engage both from a team
management point of view but also then commercially at a club,
So making sure we get both sides of those equations.
The broadcaster is really important throughout that. And then you know,
informally we're capturing the feedback that we're hearing through the media,
(06:18):
through our channels as well our social media channels, and
we'll put that all into the melting pot to start
to work through. Yeah, it is quite complex. I mean,
you know, there's rugby elements to it, there's attendance elements
to it. What will drive the greatest attendance, What will
drive the greatest audiences And we'll work through that. I mean,
I think the good thing is that everyone wants the
(06:41):
same thing. We all want a great final series that
is well attended and well watched that delivers spectacular rugby.
Where we start to get into some nuanced differences is
obviously the teams want as much advantage as they can
to win, which you know, as you know, I'm a big,
big driver of Jeopardy being really important for the competition.
(07:03):
So the closer matches we have, the more unexpected results,
the better for me. You know. Clearly clubs would love
to see as much advantages as they can for finishing
on top or finishing towards the top of the ladder.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
The rebels disappearing at the last minute not ideal. That's
why we ended up with a final series the way
it is. Put it together the best you possibly can
what's happening in that space, to enlarge the competition, to
bring another team in, if anything at all, Jack.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, at the moment, nothing, Our focus is on strengthening
the competition as it is. You know, we are we
have an eye on future, on the future in terms
of what that could mean in terms of expansion, and
we're starting to do some detailed work around you know,
what that could look like. But you know, we all
of the view that we need to really strengthen the
(07:54):
foundation here we think there's a lot of upside to
be had. We've still got a lot of work to
do to make this as good as it can be,
so that's our immediate focus. So yeah, I mean we're
focus on our clubs today and the competition today and
continuing to improve upon you know, the last couple of years,
which have been relatively good in terms of growth. Year
(08:16):
on you, on you, and we're really pleased with the
results we've seen.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
In this seat as far as things that really could
have gone better. If there's an etcher trying to scratch,
what would it be? Can you look at yourselves and go, wow,
we didn't get that one right? What do you have
to do internally? How critical are you on yourself and
your own management?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yeah, well, I think we're One area that we're certainly
working on now is a fixed string. I still think
there's some things that we can iron out there. We're
trying to really bring that process forward because if we're
too late on it, then one of the issues we
find is that we have venue availability constraints, so that
means that we're not allowed, we're not sort of able
(08:57):
to really optimize you know, who plays when and make
sure that we don't have things like we had in
the draw this year, like my on a specific era
and the Blues playing on the same weekend in Auckland,
which you know, to the fan doesn't really make sense.
So yeah, I mean that's where we'll start. There's some
things that we can do around that. We'll do a
full review of what we call shape of game, looking
(09:19):
at the laws of the game and looking at the
match officials and how they officiated the game. I think
we took some good steps there, you know, but that
requires a continued focus to make sure that we're as
good as we can be. There one area that I
don't think we got right necessarily. I think we made
some improvements but probably didn't get as far as I
(09:41):
would like, is how we present the game, particularly the
fans in stadium. So we're trying to get rest decisions
clearly articulated and heard in stadiums so that you know,
in those moments that are really high tension, that are
often confusing, if it's a TMO intervention after a try
or with our play, you know, we need everyone in
(10:04):
stadium to really clearly understand what is taking place and
why and have that clearly communicated to them. So I
think we've got it part of the way there, but
that's an area that we really need to improve upon.
It's such a great experience sitting at home watching on
TV where you have you have the rest mikes clearly
available to you have experts explaining it to you. We've
(10:27):
got to really do continue to focus on that in
stadium experience to make sure the game's easy to follow.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
As far as the refs concern, you really wanted to
make it a much faster, high pace, easily understood games.
You've made some adjustments to the rulings. What's the rest
have climbed onto writtn article today saying that maybe it's
getting a little too concerned around concussion and possibly the
finals have maybe slipped back into what world rugby would
(10:56):
be more interested in. Is there any truth in that?
Will Rugby have any interference on the way this game
has been refereed?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Jack, No, they don't. We work really closely with the
referees managers in New Zealand and Australia to to really
inform and work with them to define how we want
Super Rugby to be officiated, and I think the referees
have done a really great job of following that dictum,
if you like, and delivering that result. You know, there's
(11:28):
no doubt when we get into matches that mean more.
In finals also played in some pretty cold and wet
conditions over the last couple of weeks, things do tighten
up a little bit in terms of how the teams
are expressing themselves, how they're playing the game. And I
think that's what we're seeing. You know, it's still really
compelling rugby. It's you know, if you look at how
(11:50):
close those games have been and how how tight those
those contests have played out. So I think it's more
to do with with the with the with the weather
and just the fact that they're these a final. These
are knockout matches. People are going to sort of tighten
up on that risk reward curve from a style of
playpoint of view, and the match officials are refering what's
(12:11):
in front of them. You know, they've been as I said,
I think they've done stell a job this year and
will work closely with them in the off season again
to really get clear about how we want super to look.
And you know, I think some people sort of sometimes
think that we don't have a lot of freedom because
or it's all set from World Rugby. But I just
(12:32):
sort of say that we put submissions to World Rugby
every year on some of the alterations we want from
the laws, and we tell them how we're going to
officiate the game. You know, for example, the free kickoff
and not straight line out is a variation that only
we have in SUPER and World Rugby are really supportive
of that. So we will continue to make sure that
we're on the edge of those things and trying to
(12:54):
drive the game forward. And it's great to see, you know,
World Rugby picking up and making law some of the
things that were born and trialed in SUPER, like the
twenty minute red card. And we've got a job, and
we think it's our job to make sure that we're pushing, pushing,
pushing the game forward and will continue to try to
innovate through Super.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks'd
Be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncie Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And we joined now by Jack Messy, CEO of Super
Rugby Pacific. After quite an uplifting year.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
You know, Jack, I had Arthur you well.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Good, it's the end of Super Rugby Pacific, only a
couple of days to go before you can. I suppose
put a bow on it and call it done widely.
When you're aflect back at the season, it's the CEO
of the competition. What is your initial takeaways as to
what occurred?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, well, I remember you and I talking pre season,
and you know what we're What we were talking about
there was that we wanted to play a fast, more
exciting brand a rugby. We wanted some more unexpected results
and we've seen in the past, and we wanted people
to have fun with some of the new tools that
we put into play, like fantasy. And so sitting here
(01:00):
with just the big dance yet to play out, yeah,
we're really pleased with how those three things have come
to life. Still a long way to go, We've still
got a heap of work to do, but we're really
pleased with how the season's gone.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So what has to happen between now and next season.
As far as what you need to do, you've got
anything in place as to the must do's, the must haves.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, well, I mean we're really we've already started work
on next season. That all starts with the fixture and
getting that right. So we think there's some little wins
to be had out of just sort of optimizing the fixture,
so we're working on those things. We've seen the benefit
this season of afternoon rugby, so we want to do
(01:42):
what we can to get more afternoon rugby played throughout
the fixture. And you know, there's some things like some
timeslots and things like that that we just need to
iron out for more consistency. We just got to make
it super easy for fans to know when a game
of Super rugby is on and you can tune in
at that time every week and watch a great game.
So it starts with the fixture. We've got a survey
(02:02):
out live now around Fantasy, so we're getting heaps of
feedback people about what da'd like to see with fantasy
next to you, so we'll continue to look to improve
on that. So, yeah, there's a couple of things where
we're looking at. It's been documented we're working hard to
try to make super Round reality in New Zealand, so
we hope that also becomes a really key part of
(02:23):
the fixture into twenty six.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Talk of benefits, how do they rear their head and
benefits for yourself, the competition, the clubs, the athletes, the
people at home or in the stands. What are you
looking at there?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, well, I mean that's the beauty of what we do, right,
It's the beauty in the curse because it's all of
those people, right. We want we want all of those
people to benefit from the work we do. And I
guess our role really is to prioritize, you know, the
things that we could do with the resources we have,
to drive the optimal benefit for all of those all
of those stakeholders, if you like, you know, I think
(02:58):
what we're really focused on is making sure that you know,
we've talked a lot about it, that the fan is
in the room with those other stakehold is when we're
making those decisions. So yeah, that's really really important for us,
and I hope people have felt and seen that this season,
and that's certainly our intent as we as we do
our work now to finalize what next to you looks like.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Before you look back at the year, we'll look back
only a few days ago. Mouthguard issues. Now, there'd be
a lot of people out there panicked that maybe that
might come into play come the final. It's the last
thing anyone needs. Have you got to the bottom of
the errant beeps if you will, what's happening there?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Jack, Yeah, we had got to the bottom of that issue.
It was nothing to do with the actual mouthguard technology itself.
It was a protocol issue, just in the transfer of
information from the people that sort of go that goes through.
So we've we've egned out that protocol ahead of the
weekend to make sure that the right being leads to
(04:00):
the right person going off to the assess So, yeah,
a slight error there that we've worked on and ironed out.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Judabars throughout the season. They're a coupley towards the end,
I think some people were flummixed around the nature of
qualifying for the finals period. I was okay with it
because in the end it didn't mean much the way
things transpired, but I know that created a bit of
a ruckus around how that was set up. Are you
(04:28):
looking at reinnovating, redoing, changing that at all.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah. I mean, we'll sit down and review the final
series as a whole at the completion of the season.
You know, I know there has been a bit of
chatter about it in particular, you know, the lucky loser
and how lucky should that loser be if you like,
and people sort of have been commenting that potentially one
and two should sit out of the first round of
(04:54):
the final. So we'll go away and we'll do it.
We'll do a full review of that and come back.
I mean, what I'm really confident in is that this
final series has delivered some unexpected results, which is which
is what we want. And if I'm bang on us
what super rugby has been criticized of in the past,
So we have had some pretty big upsets throughout the
(05:15):
final and some unbelievable rugby. So you know, as soon
as you're sitting out some teams, then you're potentially inviting
in more advantage into that rested team as long as
well as the home advantage. So all of these things
have to go into the meets and we'll do that
through the review. But we're listening and we're certainly taking
that on board as we'll do that review well.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Roots deep available when it comes to listening and talking
and reviewing. You mentioned the number of stakeholders involved in this.
Do you talk with the people who run the various
franchise that captains the broadcasters? Who do you actually look
to sit down and talk to over this review process?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Good, good, good question. Yeah. We will start with our
clubs and then so we'll engage both from a team
management point of view but also then commercially at a club,
So making sure we get both sides of those equations.
The broadcaster is really important throughout that. And then you know,
informally we're capturing the feedback that we're hearing through the media,
(06:18):
through our channels as well our social media channels, and
we'll put that all into the melting pot to start
to work through. Yeah, it is quite complex. I mean,
you know, there's rugby elements to it, there's attendance elements
to it. What will drive the greatest attendance, What will
drive the greatest audiences And we'll work through that. I mean,
I think the good thing is that everyone wants the
(06:41):
same thing. We all want a great final series that
is well attended and well watched that delivers spectacular rugby.
Where we start to get into some nuanced differences is
obviously the teams want as much advantage as they can
to win, which you know, as you know, I'm a big,
big driver of Jeopardy being really important for the competition.
(07:03):
So the closer matches we have, the more unexpected results,
the better for me. You know. Clearly clubs would love
to see as much advantages as they can for finishing
on top or finishing towards the top of the ladder.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
The rebels disappearing at the last minute not ideal. That's
why we ended up with a final series the way
it is. Put it together the best you possibly can
what's happening in that space, to enlarge the competition, to
bring another team in, if anything at all, Jack.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, at the moment, nothing, Our focus is on strengthening
the competition as it is. You know, we are we
have an eye on future, on the future in terms
of what that could mean in terms of expansion, and
we're starting to do some detailed work around you know,
what that could look like. But you know, we all
of the view that we need to really strengthen the
(07:54):
foundation here we think there's a lot of upside to
be had. We've still got a lot of work to
do to make this as good as it can be,
so that's our immediate focus. So yeah, I mean we're
focus on our clubs today and the competition today and
continuing to improve upon you know, the last couple of years,
which have been relatively good in terms of growth. Year
(08:16):
on you, on you, and we're really pleased with the
results we've seen.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
In this seat as far as things that really could
have gone better. If there's an etcher trying to scratch,
what would it be? Can you look at yourselves and go, wow,
we didn't get that one right? What do you have
to do internally? How critical are you on yourself and
your own management?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yeah, well, I think we're One area that we're certainly
working on now is a fixed string. I still think
there's some things that we can iron out there. We're
trying to really bring that process forward because if we're
too late on it, then one of the issues we
find is that we have venue availability constraints, so that
means that we're not allowed, we're not sort of able
(08:57):
to really optimize you know, who plays when and make
sure that we don't have things like we had in
the draw this year, like my on a specific era
and the Blues playing on the same weekend in Auckland,
which you know, to the fan doesn't really make sense.
So yeah, I mean that's where we'll start. There's some
things that we can do around that. We'll do a
full review of what we call shape of game, looking
(09:19):
at the laws of the game and looking at the
match officials and how they officiated the game. I think
we took some good steps there, you know, but that
requires a continued focus to make sure that we're as
good as we can be. There one area that I
don't think we got right necessarily. I think we made
some improvements but probably didn't get as far as I
(09:41):
would like, is how we present the game, particularly the
fans in stadium. So we're trying to get rest decisions
clearly articulated and heard in stadiums so that you know,
in those moments that are really high tension, that are
often confusing, if it's a TMO intervention after a try
or with our play, you know, we need everyone in
(10:04):
stadium to really clearly understand what is taking place and
why and have that clearly communicated to them. So I
think we've got it part of the way there, but
that's an area that we really need to improve upon.
It's such a great experience sitting at home watching on
TV where you have you have the rest mikes clearly
available to you have experts explaining it to you. We've
(10:27):
got to really do continue to focus on that in
stadium experience to make sure the game's easy to follow.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
As far as the refs concern, you really wanted to
make it a much faster, high pace, easily understood games.
You've made some adjustments to the rulings. What's the rest
have climbed onto writtn article today saying that maybe it's
getting a little too concerned around concussion and possibly the
finals have maybe slipped back into what world rugby would
(10:56):
be more interested in. Is there any truth in that?
Will Rugby have any interference on the way this game
has been refereed?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Jack, No, they don't. We work really closely with the
referees managers in New Zealand and Australia to to really
inform and work with them to define how we want
Super Rugby to be officiated, and I think the referees
have done a really great job of following that dictum,
if you like, and delivering that result. You know, there's
(11:28):
no doubt when we get into matches that mean more.
In finals also played in some pretty cold and wet
conditions over the last couple of weeks, things do tighten
up a little bit in terms of how the teams
are expressing themselves, how they're playing the game. And I
think that's what we're seeing. You know, it's still really
compelling rugby. It's you know, if you look at how
(11:50):
close those games have been and how how tight those
those contests have played out. So I think it's more
to do with with the with the with the weather
and just the fact that they're these a final. These
are knockout matches. People are going to sort of tighten
up on that risk reward curve from a style of
playpoint of view, and the match officials are refering what's
(12:11):
in front of them. You know, they've been as I said,
I think they've done stell a job this year and
will work closely with them in the off season again
to really get clear about how we want super to look.
And you know, I think some people sort of sometimes
think that we don't have a lot of freedom because
or it's all set from World Rugby. But I just
(12:32):
sort of say that we put submissions to World Rugby
every year on some of the alterations we want from
the laws, and we tell them how we're going to
officiate the game. You know, for example, the free kickoff
and not straight line out is a variation that only
we have in SUPER and World Rugby are really supportive
of that. So we will continue to make sure that
we're on the edge of those things and trying to
(12:54):
drive the game forward. And it's great to see, you know,
World Rugby picking up and making law some of the
things that were born and trialed in SUPER, like the
twenty minute red card. And we've got a job, and
we think it's our job to make sure that we're pushing, pushing,
pushing the game forward and will continue to try to
innovate through Super.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks'd
Be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!