After spending the Super Rugby season getting accustomed to one set of rules and regulations, players will now have to adapt to another set of guidelines for the international test period.
Former international referee Vinny Munro says the All Blacks players returning to the field will have to deal with what's in front of them now.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldegrave
from news Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Great pleasure to welcome in former top level referee Vinnie
Monroe to the show here on news Talk zeb Vinnie.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Good evening, Hello, Elliott.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Well, look at Test rugby is on the horizon once
again and as we roll into Test season, we park
what we learned in Super rugby from a referee perspective
and get into Test rugby. Look at, Vinnie is a
little bit of refereeing whiplashes sort of the rules and
interpretations and edicts go around because players have been used
(00:42):
to one rule in Super rugby, then they have to
adapt to different interpretations when they get into the Test.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Arena very much so, and again the challenge that they
have as players to adapt to what's in front of
them or what's been officiated. I think the pleasing thing
looking at what the All Blacks are going to face
in the next three weeks is two Australians in a
Georgian So that's not as bad as it is or
(01:09):
has been. But look, this has been going on for years,
probably since the inception of Super rugby, where Super rugby
have played with different rules to try and make it
more of an entertainment for the public, and in some
ways that succeeded. But World Rugby don't always take on
what the planning or have done.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Does. Super Rugby therefore, prepare your test players well enough
in that regard for what comes in tests. Given Super
Rugby prioritizes entertainment over perhaps the officiating tests. Rugby probably
is at the point where it's the other way around.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yes, it is, and it looks. I think that's the
ability of a coaching or management team within the teams
like the All Blacks, that they have to prepare their
players for the change, and it can be quite a
drastic change. And depending on where the referees come from,
and that we know there is a very much whether
it's perception, but perception is reality. That they officiate differently
(02:04):
in the Northern Hemisphere to the southern. That has been
the same for many, many years and I can't see
it changing. But it's like anything, whether you're playing under eights, hundred, tens,
twenties All Blacks, you've got to adapt to what the
referee is doing and the person or the team that
adapts the quickest will get the best deal.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Do you think in that regard, maybe the French are
better suitor because their referees are being exposed to more
of that style of referees up north.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Look, familiarity is a big thing these days. And look
that World panel doesn't change too much. You know, they're
probably in between the teams, like it doesn't go to
a World Cup, but probably look at twenty or early twenties,
so they'll experience all of them. But you're going to
put it from a referee perspective, They're not going to
go out and be really left field and make it difficult.
(02:57):
Because their careers are on the line. They're going to
referee as much as they can to the law book
allow for advantage, except which is always a problem the
different hemispheres. But they've got to be within reason, and
so the players have got to get on with them
and accept who they are, because it's highly likely that
they'll have them at least once more, maybe up to
(03:17):
double figures times in the next World Cup cycle.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
The over analysis I suppose of every collision in rugby
as a former referee, is that do you think that's
a good space for rugby to be in where we
are currently?
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Certainly change the game and at times it's not a
very good spectacle because we're waiting, waiting for a decision
when they go upstairs and check that. But you've got
to counter that with the welfare of players, and look,
the world's changed, so yes, you do need to look
after them and get the right help as early as
(03:52):
possible to stop the mitigation of what might come through
later against the Union or the World Rugby which is
happening now and certainly in the Northern Hemisphere.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
The World Rugby refereeing boss is understood to have base
demanded sort of, you know, and that high level analysis
of rugby games. So when you've got the boss telling
you that's what you need to do, then obviously the
employees being the referees are going to Karto in that respect, aren't.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
They very much? Because he's the boss, he's one of
the selectors. So i'd imagine if you go against someone
like that, your future mightn't be too bright.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
What do you make for any of the microscope on
rugby referees these days, because it feels like it's really
changed from where we were perhaps ten, fifteen, twenty years ago.
You know, you'd know the names and the faces of
the referees. But now it feels like every little moment
in test match is over analyzed to within an inch
of its life by the spectators, and every mistake is
(04:50):
now picked up, isn't it, you know, by the people
at home or watching in the ground, or indeed the
coaches of the respective teams.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, look very much so, and certainly a harder game
to be involved, and for that reason. But you've got
to put it into perspective of how the world's changed.
We've got social media and we've been down that blood
he had run in recent times, of how people can
hide and abuse or criticize, etc. You're always going to
(05:17):
get criticized. You're always going to make decisions that are analyzed,
and it's the best the referee that makes those decisions
and a narrow bit of disparity between right and wrong,
and he gets it right more often, he's going to
be a better referee. And the ones that can handle it,
learn from their mistakes and take it forward are the
guys that you will see at the World Cup and
(05:39):
that's how it probably flushes others out.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
And from an all Black's perspective, then he, Yeah, I
guess it's easy to say we want to employ discipline,
which is something that Scott Robertson said as well. But
it's such a vital part of the game. Now, how
do they stay within the bounds of the laws not
knowing the referee that might tend up on a Saturday.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Yeah, Look, you've got to be alert to what's happening early.
And we talked to older players in that and there's
one very good flank World Cup and to eleven and
two fifteen. If you watch his statistics and look back
at what he did, he monitored the referee for the
first twenty minutes and very rarely got penalized as a
seventh and then when he became more effective, it was
(06:20):
late in the second half, late in the first half
and early in the second half because he realized where
the line in the sand was from the referee. So
if you can see what the referee's doing, and a
referee shouldn't change too much in eighty minutes, then you
can play to him. So in summary, if you adapt,
you'll be successful.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Is that just a message? I guess adapt? So what
have the situations in front of you? If you're the
All Black, So you've just got to take it as
it comes and adapt as quickly as you're possible in
that eighty minutes.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah, look, and I think so the decision is a
decision and no one changes. A referee doesn't change his decision. Now,
the TMO might come in with some extra advice and
it changes for that reason, but nineteen nine percent of
decisions are kept as he originally made them. So suck
it up, move on and play the next phase and
(07:12):
see if you can get a turnover when the ball
score a try isn't changed.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Fantastic, Vinnie. We'll great to catch up and get your
thoughts on this as you appreciate your time with us.
As always on News Talks, it'd be nice to chat.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Good on, Ell, have a good day.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Thank you For more from Sports Talk, Listen live to
News Talks z'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldegrave
from news Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Great pleasure to welcome in former top level referee Vinnie
Monroe to the show here on news Talk zeb Vinnie.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Good evening, Hello, Elliott.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Well, look at Test rugby is on the horizon once
again and as we roll into Test season, we park
what we learned in Super rugby from a referee perspective
and get into Test rugby. Look at, Vinnie is a
little bit of refereeing whiplashes sort of the rules and
interpretations and edicts go around because players have been used
(00:42):
to one rule in Super rugby, then they have to
adapt to different interpretations when they get into the Test.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Arena very much so, and again the challenge that they
have as players to adapt to what's in front of
them or what's been officiated. I think the pleasing thing
looking at what the All Blacks are going to face
in the next three weeks is two Australians in a
Georgian So that's not as bad as it is or
(01:09):
has been. But look, this has been going on for years,
probably since the inception of Super rugby, where Super rugby
have played with different rules to try and make it
more of an entertainment for the public, and in some
ways that succeeded. But World Rugby don't always take on
what the planning or have done.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Does. Super Rugby therefore, prepare your test players well enough
in that regard for what comes in tests. Given Super
Rugby prioritizes entertainment over perhaps the officiating tests. Rugby probably
is at the point where it's the other way around.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yes, it is, and it looks. I think that's the
ability of a coaching or management team within the teams
like the All Blacks, that they have to prepare their
players for the change, and it can be quite a
drastic change. And depending on where the referees come from,
and that we know there is a very much whether
it's perception, but perception is reality. That they officiate differently
(02:04):
in the Northern Hemisphere to the southern. That has been
the same for many, many years and I can't see
it changing. But it's like anything, whether you're playing under eights, hundred, tens,
twenties All Blacks, you've got to adapt to what the
referee is doing and the person or the team that
adapts the quickest will get the best deal.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Do you think in that regard, maybe the French are
better suitor because their referees are being exposed to more
of that style of referees up north.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Look, familiarity is a big thing these days. And look
that World panel doesn't change too much. You know, they're
probably in between the teams, like it doesn't go to
a World Cup, but probably look at twenty or early twenties,
so they'll experience all of them. But you're going to
put it from a referee perspective, They're not going to
go out and be really left field and make it difficult.
(02:57):
Because their careers are on the line. They're going to
referee as much as they can to the law book
allow for advantage, except which is always a problem the
different hemispheres. But they've got to be within reason, and
so the players have got to get on with them
and accept who they are, because it's highly likely that
they'll have them at least once more, maybe up to
(03:17):
double figures times in the next World Cup cycle.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
The over analysis I suppose of every collision in rugby
as a former referee, is that do you think that's
a good space for rugby to be in where we
are currently?
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Certainly change the game and at times it's not a
very good spectacle because we're waiting, waiting for a decision
when they go upstairs and check that. But you've got
to counter that with the welfare of players, and look,
the world's changed, so yes, you do need to look
after them and get the right help as early as
(03:52):
possible to stop the mitigation of what might come through
later against the Union or the World Rugby which is
happening now and certainly in the Northern Hemisphere.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
The World Rugby refereeing boss is understood to have base
demanded sort of, you know, and that high level analysis
of rugby games. So when you've got the boss telling
you that's what you need to do, then obviously the
employees being the referees are going to Karto in that respect, aren't.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
They very much? Because he's the boss, he's one of
the selectors. So i'd imagine if you go against someone
like that, your future mightn't be too bright.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
What do you make for any of the microscope on
rugby referees these days, because it feels like it's really
changed from where we were perhaps ten, fifteen, twenty years ago.
You know, you'd know the names and the faces of
the referees. But now it feels like every little moment
in test match is over analyzed to within an inch
of its life by the spectators, and every mistake is
(04:50):
now picked up, isn't it, you know, by the people
at home or watching in the ground, or indeed the
coaches of the respective teams.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, look very much so, and certainly a harder game
to be involved, and for that reason. But you've got
to put it into perspective of how the world's changed.
We've got social media and we've been down that blood
he had run in recent times, of how people can
hide and abuse or criticize, etc. You're always going to
(05:17):
get criticized. You're always going to make decisions that are analyzed,
and it's the best the referee that makes those decisions
and a narrow bit of disparity between right and wrong,
and he gets it right more often, he's going to
be a better referee. And the ones that can handle it,
learn from their mistakes and take it forward are the
guys that you will see at the World Cup and
(05:39):
that's how it probably flushes others out.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
And from an all Black's perspective, then he, Yeah, I
guess it's easy to say we want to employ discipline,
which is something that Scott Robertson said as well. But
it's such a vital part of the game. Now, how
do they stay within the bounds of the laws not
knowing the referee that might tend up on a Saturday.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Yeah, Look, you've got to be alert to what's happening early.
And we talked to older players in that and there's
one very good flank World Cup and to eleven and
two fifteen. If you watch his statistics and look back
at what he did, he monitored the referee for the
first twenty minutes and very rarely got penalized as a
seventh and then when he became more effective, it was
(06:20):
late in the second half, late in the first half
and early in the second half because he realized where
the line in the sand was from the referee. So
if you can see what the referee's doing, and a
referee shouldn't change too much in eighty minutes, then you
can play to him. So in summary, if you adapt,
you'll be successful.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Is that just a message? I guess adapt? So what
have the situations in front of you? If you're the
All Black, So you've just got to take it as
it comes and adapt as quickly as you're possible in
that eighty minutes.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah, look, and I think so the decision is a
decision and no one changes. A referee doesn't change his decision. Now,
the TMO might come in with some extra advice and
it changes for that reason, but nineteen nine percent of
decisions are kept as he originally made them. So suck
it up, move on and play the next phase and
(07:12):
see if you can get a turnover when the ball
score a try isn't changed.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Fantastic, Vinnie. We'll great to catch up and get your
thoughts on this as you appreciate your time with us.
As always on News Talks, it'd be nice to chat.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Good on, Ell, have a good day.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Thank you For more from Sports Talk, Listen live to
News Talks z'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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