July 17, 2025 • 13 mins
Warriors star and former All Black Roger Tuivasa-Sheck has been linked to the Saudi-backed rugby competition R360 - with a deal worth around $1 million apparently on offer.
Managing director and leading player agent Simon Porter joined Sportstalk to discuss what the behind-the-scenes momentum of negotiations and development may look like, and explain the growing buzz around the tournament.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldegrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It's certainly been a big story over last twenty four hours,
breaking just after we went off here last night that
rod deduy Vasischek had had an approach from this R
three to sixty competition. You'll remember a little bit earlier
in the year it was first mooted. Basic story is this,
it's kind of like IF one, and the fact that
it'll travel around the globe. They'll throw players in from
(00:33):
different countries into franchises, a kind of like the IPL.
So an amalgamation I guess of rugby with a bit
of IPL with a bit of the Formula one thrown in.
But is it going to get off the ground and
should we be worried as rug be or Rugby league fans,
especially given they seem to be targeting rugby league players
(00:54):
more than rugby at least on the surface of it.
Joining us now to discuss is Simon Porter, who is
the managing director of Halo Sport, one of the countries
leading player agents. He joins us now time and thanks
so much for your.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Time, no problems.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Well, has this now moved into the realm of being
an active proposition, this R three sixty concept, now that
players are being linked.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
To it, I think I think it's probably still very
much in the development concept stage. You know, there's a
lot of hurdles and a lot of details still to
be worked through. But I guess you know, from from
the organizer's point of view, you know, you can't ever
(01:37):
rudtod competition unless you've got players, So it's kind of
natural that they'd be out there talking with players, and
then I guess it's kind of natural that sometimes those
conversations end up out in the public domain. So yeah,
it's still pretty conceptual in development at this stage, but
there's there's certainly working pretty hard to try to bring
(02:00):
it together.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
That was my next question. Obviously these things go on
behind the scenes at the moment, but obviously they pass
your desk as well. And look there there genuinely seems
to be some momentum behind this from the the other
key players behind it.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Look, I think you know the people that are that
are driving it are you know, they're they're adamant that
they see things and may need to change, and they've
got some ideas around how they think they can they
can change rugby and what they can fix. But kind of,
as I said, there's there's still got a lot of
(02:41):
hurdles and in details to work through before they can
sort of, I guess, before it gets to the point
where you'd be saying, oh, you buy your tickets, you know,
get head along to the ballpark. We're not quite there yet.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I don't think as a player agent, do you. I mean,
I'm sure you've seen things like this before. There was
the Twelves a few years ago, there have been other concepts.
Are you naturally cynical around these sort of breakaway leagues
for one of a bit of.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Term that's probably? Look, I think you're just yeah, I
look clinical. Yep, maybe sytical. I don't know. Look, look,
you know your job is to look at these things,
assess them, and advise your clients. Right, Ultimately, that's what
you've got to do. It's not our decision whether a
client decides to science for something like this, or signs
(03:33):
in Japan or France, or stays in New Zealand or whatever.
So you know about our job is to assess it
and look at it. You know they've at the moment
you know they're targeting the best players in the world.
That's what they say. But you know, you've got countries
like New Zealand, England, Ireland, Australia to a degree, and
I think France is the same. I'm not quite sure.
It's just a product of their competition where in order
(03:56):
to be eligible for your national team you've got to
be playing club rugby in that country. And you know,
New Zealand Rugby has been very clear about it starts
on players being pipped from overseas, so you know, and
if you take those five countries out of the equation,
can you hold your hand up and say it's the
(04:17):
best players in the world. You know, they've been very
clear that they want the international players that they want
to be respectful of the international game and play it
and around release windows, et cetera, which means it goes
up and competition against you know, the top league Regular
League one in Japan or Super Rugby or the French
Top fourteen Premiership in England, et cetera, et ceteras. So
(04:38):
you know, there's some pretty big meaty issues they need
to work through to be able to deliver on their
vision for what they see this competition being.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Should New Zealand rugby as an organization be worried about
this or open to what it might bring. And obviously
you've mentioned the eligibility thing there as well, But should
they be worried about potentially, you know, the players being
shipped off shore and going and playing for this concept.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Well, I mean players leave me dound every year to
go to play elsewhere. So you know, if if the
credibility in the integrity of the international competition remains, then
players are still going to remain and be all blacks,
et cetera. So I mean, I look, it's a watching brief.
(05:26):
I think I'm not so sure worried. I mean, you
know it, you know, it'll be on their risk registered
to you know, I guess you know they're looking at it,
but I don't think it's something that's you know, an
immediate right now, massive concern for them. Anything like this
will take momentum. As I say, it's not just New
(05:47):
Zealand's you know, we're not the epty center of the
rugby world. We're a very very strong contributor to it.
But you know, this involves everyone across numerous countries, and
you know, and then they've got things like what all
the sustainability and the regeneration of it. And you know
that's where like a competition like Lives Golf, I think
where that stumbled. Where Sure they managed to get the
signatures of a lot of leading players, but now sort
(06:10):
of three four years on, where's the next crop coming from?
And So if you did something like this and you
tore a whole lot of players out of club ecosystems
around the world, what is that going to do to
the club competition. So whilst it may not be a
massive amount of players from each competition, you know what
we've seen in where competitions have kind of say consolidated,
(06:31):
like an island. They created sorry Innicity, they created two
super teams and Wales they created four regions in New
Zealand they created five super rugby teams. Well what did
that do to the competitions underneath it? You know, they
lost a bit of relevance and they lose some eyeballs,
They lose sponsors, they lose funding, et cetera. So I
think it's a bit naive to think that they could
strip players out of the best competitions, the current best
(06:53):
competitions in the world, and then expect those competitions to
just carry on working and regenerating rugby players for them.
So you know it could be a one wonder thing
where you could get the best players, But I don't
have to really thought around how do they keep regenerating?
Where do they get their replacement players from? You know,
like how do they keep you know, you look at
a super rug good team. They've thirty eight contracts, but
(07:14):
they use fifty odd players a year because players get hurt.
It's a brutal game. You add and travel every week,
you know, going around countries around the world. You know
that that creates play welfare issues, that creates injury issues.
But you know where are you going to pull players?
And if you get you know, two front rowers get
can cuss. You know, where where are they going to
(07:35):
come from? If you're going from real Genero to Toronto.
So you know, there's all these things that you know,
I'm just I'm you to sort of hear answers to
those kinds of questions that make me sit there and go, well,
hell yeah, look at my boys that jump on the
bandwagon and put pin the paper and close your options
off to everything else. You know, it's all that detail
(07:57):
that you know, Yeah, sure, great art, Yes, and I'm
sure they've approached them, you know, and I think Bruce
admitted it, you know, so great awesome for Roger. But
and you know Rogers, Rogers has been around for a
long time, his agent's been around for a long time.
You know, they'll be asking the exact same questions.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Where so I'm imported with us on Newstalk zeb just
a couple of final questions as you've touched on there.
You know, it's the first player to go. It's in
this new competition that you know, a player might be
a domino effect that one goes in, two go, then
three goes. But when it's a new competition, you know
you've got to be the first person to you know,
know your flat and now your colors to the mass
(08:34):
and go I'm going to go play for R three
sixty And often takes a you know, a different player
to kind of do that. So, you know, if the
if domino start falling, do you think that could be
an issue for New Zealand rugby if one sort of follows,
two follows three, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Oh look, look, of course the domino effects, of course
it would. But you know there's also some natural, uh
like barriers or hurdles for that happening. One. This isn't
like golf where everyone's independent contractors and have then signed
on tracts. You know, these guys are all contracted, and
(09:09):
you know, all around the world people are contracted not
just you know, multi year, but a few years away
or you know, some will be two years, some will
be three, some will be one. You know, some guys
contracting in December, some guys contracts and in July, others
in the April. You know, all that sort of stuff.
So there's you can have a domino effect. You know,
I don't like cricket, you know, I think cricket's fairly
(09:31):
susceptible to a rebel competition because you know, in New
Zealand we don't do multi year contracts. We just do
one year contract So if everyone just decided well no,
we're all going to go and plan that competition that
starts two months after you know, their contracts finished, you
could do something like that. But rugby is just not
like that. You know, you don't have unless people are
(09:52):
just to go truly rebel and people walk and just well,
oh well see us lawyers would win then because people
would so you know that the bets are too big
for a lot of people, So I yes, of course,
but again you know, I don't Yeah, it could happen,
the domino effect could happen, but you know, I think
(10:15):
it's just one of those things that would be a
slow ban and if they get off the ground, because
it's just not conceivable that the best two hundred rugby
players in the world are all going to be available
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And just finally, Simon, so grateful for your time. But
World Rugby does you know, does as a chance with
them that this breakaway competition has been talked about to
make sure that you know, they've got their game, their house,
everything in order.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, look, I'm sure they're talking to World Rugby. But
this is this is where the nuance of rugby comes in.
Like World Rugby are a governing body, but for rugby
to you know, the global game, but for rugby to
be played in the country, like our game to be
played in the country, you actually need the national union
(11:00):
to sign off on that. So for there to be
around of this in New Zealand, things that are you
would have to sign off on it. Otherwise it is
rebel and it exists outside of you know, world rugby sanctions,
which I presume you know, that's what happened with the
i p L and the Indian Cricket League. You know,
they were both rebel and then India swept in or
bcc Ice swept in behind the i p L, and
(11:23):
everyone that was playing ICL was suddenly rebel and banned
and complain to national rugby. So you know, if you
go ahead and play in a country that hasn't sanctioned it,
well you are you know, those players and everyone involved
will be open to being sanctioned. So that's where you know,
Will Rugby could endorse it, but it's actually up to
(11:43):
the individual country. So if you take out the big
rugby playing countries and you're just taking this new frontiers,
well it hasn't gone that well for SEVENS, you know again,
and that's just something I look at and go, you're
taking a business model that you know, arguably is a
little bit like SEVENS. I know they preferred to compare
it to Formula one or the golf for you know,
(12:05):
I p alex CEA. But you know, the seven Circus
has cruising around the world playing festival rugby tournaments, year
on year, you're going to take a whole lot more
players with a lot more cost different model. Like, it's
it's got some real challenges that it needs to figure out.
And now I mean that from a commercial model, but
you know, you just start adding everything up and it's just,
(12:27):
I it's absolutely eyewatering, just the travel bill to get
all those players, support staff, et cetera around the world
and then flying them home every few weeks or in
a flub family or whatever. You know, just you do
the numbers, and you know, yeah, I'm skeptical a little
bit because it just it's it's got some challenges and
(12:49):
some questions that have been asked that haven't been answered yet.
So you know, I'm sure they're beavering away and they'll
be working furiously because you know, they're good people and
they're real rugby people and all that sort of stuff,
but you know, they still have to answer a whole
lot of these questions before too many people are going
to be flooding there.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Well, why did say where those questions get answered? Simon Porter,
Thank you so much for your time on News Talk, Ziber,
I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Not a problem.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
For more from Sports Talk Listen Live to news Talk
ZIB from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on
iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldegrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It's certainly been a big story over last twenty four hours,
breaking just after we went off here last night that
rod deduy Vasischek had had an approach from this R
three to sixty competition. You'll remember a little bit earlier
in the year it was first mooted. Basic story is this,
it's kind of like IF one, and the fact that
it'll travel around the globe. They'll throw players in from
(00:33):
different countries into franchises, a kind of like the IPL.
So an amalgamation I guess of rugby with a bit
of IPL with a bit of the Formula one thrown in.
But is it going to get off the ground and
should we be worried as rug be or Rugby league fans,
especially given they seem to be targeting rugby league players
(00:54):
more than rugby at least on the surface of it.
Joining us now to discuss is Simon Porter, who is
the managing director of Halo Sport, one of the countries
leading player agents. He joins us now time and thanks
so much for your.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Time, no problems.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Well, has this now moved into the realm of being
an active proposition, this R three sixty concept, now that
players are being linked.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
To it, I think I think it's probably still very
much in the development concept stage. You know, there's a
lot of hurdles and a lot of details still to
be worked through. But I guess you know, from from
the organizer's point of view, you know, you can't ever
(01:37):
rudtod competition unless you've got players, So it's kind of
natural that they'd be out there talking with players, and
then I guess it's kind of natural that sometimes those
conversations end up out in the public domain. So yeah,
it's still pretty conceptual in development at this stage, but
there's there's certainly working pretty hard to try to bring
(02:00):
it together.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
That was my next question. Obviously these things go on
behind the scenes at the moment, but obviously they pass
your desk as well. And look there there genuinely seems
to be some momentum behind this from the the other
key players behind it.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Look, I think you know the people that are that
are driving it are you know, they're they're adamant that
they see things and may need to change, and they've
got some ideas around how they think they can they
can change rugby and what they can fix. But kind of,
as I said, there's there's still got a lot of
(02:41):
hurdles and in details to work through before they can
sort of, I guess, before it gets to the point
where you'd be saying, oh, you buy your tickets, you know,
get head along to the ballpark. We're not quite there yet.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I don't think as a player agent, do you. I mean,
I'm sure you've seen things like this before. There was
the Twelves a few years ago, there have been other concepts.
Are you naturally cynical around these sort of breakaway leagues
for one of a bit of.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Term that's probably? Look, I think you're just yeah, I
look clinical. Yep, maybe sytical. I don't know. Look, look,
you know your job is to look at these things,
assess them, and advise your clients. Right, Ultimately, that's what
you've got to do. It's not our decision whether a
client decides to science for something like this, or signs
(03:33):
in Japan or France, or stays in New Zealand or whatever.
So you know about our job is to assess it
and look at it. You know they've at the moment
you know they're targeting the best players in the world.
That's what they say. But you know, you've got countries
like New Zealand, England, Ireland, Australia to a degree, and
I think France is the same. I'm not quite sure.
It's just a product of their competition where in order
(03:56):
to be eligible for your national team you've got to
be playing club rugby in that country. And you know,
New Zealand Rugby has been very clear about it starts
on players being pipped from overseas, so you know, and
if you take those five countries out of the equation,
can you hold your hand up and say it's the
(04:17):
best players in the world. You know, they've been very
clear that they want the international players that they want
to be respectful of the international game and play it
and around release windows, et cetera, which means it goes
up and competition against you know, the top league Regular
League one in Japan or Super Rugby or the French
Top fourteen Premiership in England, et cetera, et ceteras. So
(04:38):
you know, there's some pretty big meaty issues they need
to work through to be able to deliver on their
vision for what they see this competition being.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Should New Zealand rugby as an organization be worried about
this or open to what it might bring. And obviously
you've mentioned the eligibility thing there as well, But should
they be worried about potentially, you know, the players being
shipped off shore and going and playing for this concept.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Well, I mean players leave me dound every year to
go to play elsewhere. So you know, if if the
credibility in the integrity of the international competition remains, then
players are still going to remain and be all blacks,
et cetera. So I mean, I look, it's a watching brief.
(05:26):
I think I'm not so sure worried. I mean, you
know it, you know, it'll be on their risk registered
to you know, I guess you know they're looking at it,
but I don't think it's something that's you know, an
immediate right now, massive concern for them. Anything like this
will take momentum. As I say, it's not just New
(05:47):
Zealand's you know, we're not the epty center of the
rugby world. We're a very very strong contributor to it.
But you know, this involves everyone across numerous countries, and
you know, and then they've got things like what all
the sustainability and the regeneration of it. And you know
that's where like a competition like Lives Golf, I think
where that stumbled. Where Sure they managed to get the
signatures of a lot of leading players, but now sort
(06:10):
of three four years on, where's the next crop coming from?
And So if you did something like this and you
tore a whole lot of players out of club ecosystems
around the world, what is that going to do to
the club competition. So whilst it may not be a
massive amount of players from each competition, you know what
we've seen in where competitions have kind of say consolidated,
(06:31):
like an island. They created sorry Innicity, they created two
super teams and Wales they created four regions in New
Zealand they created five super rugby teams. Well what did
that do to the competitions underneath it? You know, they
lost a bit of relevance and they lose some eyeballs,
They lose sponsors, they lose funding, et cetera. So I
think it's a bit naive to think that they could
strip players out of the best competitions, the current best
(06:53):
competitions in the world, and then expect those competitions to
just carry on working and regenerating rugby players for them.
So you know it could be a one wonder thing
where you could get the best players, But I don't
have to really thought around how do they keep regenerating?
Where do they get their replacement players from? You know,
like how do they keep you know, you look at
a super rug good team. They've thirty eight contracts, but
(07:14):
they use fifty odd players a year because players get hurt.
It's a brutal game. You add and travel every week,
you know, going around countries around the world. You know
that that creates play welfare issues, that creates injury issues.
But you know where are you going to pull players?
And if you get you know, two front rowers get
can cuss. You know, where where are they going to
(07:35):
come from? If you're going from real Genero to Toronto.
So you know, there's all these things that you know,
I'm just I'm you to sort of hear answers to
those kinds of questions that make me sit there and go, well,
hell yeah, look at my boys that jump on the
bandwagon and put pin the paper and close your options
off to everything else. You know, it's all that detail
(07:57):
that you know, Yeah, sure, great art, Yes, and I'm
sure they've approached them, you know, and I think Bruce
admitted it, you know, so great awesome for Roger. But
and you know Rogers, Rogers has been around for a
long time, his agent's been around for a long time.
You know, they'll be asking the exact same questions.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Where so I'm imported with us on Newstalk zeb just
a couple of final questions as you've touched on there.
You know, it's the first player to go. It's in
this new competition that you know, a player might be
a domino effect that one goes in, two go, then
three goes. But when it's a new competition, you know
you've got to be the first person to you know,
know your flat and now your colors to the mass
(08:34):
and go I'm going to go play for R three
sixty And often takes a you know, a different player
to kind of do that. So, you know, if the
if domino start falling, do you think that could be
an issue for New Zealand rugby if one sort of follows,
two follows three, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Oh look, look, of course the domino effects, of course
it would. But you know there's also some natural, uh
like barriers or hurdles for that happening. One. This isn't
like golf where everyone's independent contractors and have then signed
on tracts. You know, these guys are all contracted, and
(09:09):
you know, all around the world people are contracted not
just you know, multi year, but a few years away
or you know, some will be two years, some will
be three, some will be one. You know, some guys
contracting in December, some guys contracts and in July, others
in the April. You know, all that sort of stuff.
So there's you can have a domino effect. You know,
I don't like cricket, you know, I think cricket's fairly
(09:31):
susceptible to a rebel competition because you know, in New
Zealand we don't do multi year contracts. We just do
one year contract So if everyone just decided well no,
we're all going to go and plan that competition that
starts two months after you know, their contracts finished, you
could do something like that. But rugby is just not
like that. You know, you don't have unless people are
(09:52):
just to go truly rebel and people walk and just well,
oh well see us lawyers would win then because people
would so you know that the bets are too big
for a lot of people, So I yes, of course,
but again you know, I don't Yeah, it could happen,
the domino effect could happen, but you know, I think
(10:15):
it's just one of those things that would be a
slow ban and if they get off the ground, because
it's just not conceivable that the best two hundred rugby
players in the world are all going to be available
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And just finally, Simon, so grateful for your time. But
World Rugby does you know, does as a chance with
them that this breakaway competition has been talked about to
make sure that you know, they've got their game, their house,
everything in order.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, look, I'm sure they're talking to World Rugby. But
this is this is where the nuance of rugby comes in.
Like World Rugby are a governing body, but for rugby
to you know, the global game, but for rugby to
be played in the country, like our game to be
played in the country, you actually need the national union
(11:00):
to sign off on that. So for there to be
around of this in New Zealand, things that are you
would have to sign off on it. Otherwise it is
rebel and it exists outside of you know, world rugby sanctions,
which I presume you know, that's what happened with the
i p L and the Indian Cricket League. You know,
they were both rebel and then India swept in or
bcc Ice swept in behind the i p L, and
(11:23):
everyone that was playing ICL was suddenly rebel and banned
and complain to national rugby. So you know, if you
go ahead and play in a country that hasn't sanctioned it,
well you are you know, those players and everyone involved
will be open to being sanctioned. So that's where you know,
Will Rugby could endorse it, but it's actually up to
(11:43):
the individual country. So if you take out the big
rugby playing countries and you're just taking this new frontiers,
well it hasn't gone that well for SEVENS, you know again,
and that's just something I look at and go, you're
taking a business model that you know, arguably is a
little bit like SEVENS. I know they preferred to compare
it to Formula one or the golf for you know,
(12:05):
I p alex CEA. But you know, the seven Circus
has cruising around the world playing festival rugby tournaments, year
on year, you're going to take a whole lot more
players with a lot more cost different model. Like, it's
it's got some real challenges that it needs to figure out.
And now I mean that from a commercial model, but
you know, you just start adding everything up and it's just,
(12:27):
I it's absolutely eyewatering, just the travel bill to get
all those players, support staff, et cetera around the world
and then flying them home every few weeks or in
a flub family or whatever. You know, just you do
the numbers, and you know, yeah, I'm skeptical a little
bit because it just it's it's got some challenges and
(12:49):
some questions that have been asked that haven't been answered yet.
So you know, I'm sure they're beavering away and they'll
be working furiously because you know, they're good people and
they're real rugby people and all that sort of stuff,
but you know, they still have to answer a whole
lot of these questions before too many people are going
to be flooding there.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Well, why did say where those questions get answered? Simon Porter,
Thank you so much for your time on News Talk, Ziber,
I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Not a problem.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
For more from Sports Talk Listen Live to news Talk
ZIB from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on
iHeartRadio
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.