July 28, 2025 • 10 mins
Heartbreak for Wallabies fans this wekend.
They've lost the second test in a row to the British and Irish Lions, and the game came down to a very contentious reffing call late in the piece.
Christy Doran from the Roar spoke to Jason Pine about the mood of rugby fans over the ditch at the moment.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncy Wildergrave
from News Talk zedb.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Let's Bring in Rugby editor at the Raw, Christy Doran.
You can also hear Christy on the ESPN Scrum podcast.
Christy before we talk about the threat that the Assies
might present to the All Blacks later in the year.
Is there still a sense of deflation among Ossie rugby
fans after Saturday night?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Oh, you better believe it.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
And you just have to look at some of the
headlines today with Phil will talking about the fact that
his demanding answers about how.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
That decision at the end.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
And I say that decision because I'm pretty sure most
of your listeners would have seen it or at least
heard about it. Carlo Tizzano being blasted off the ball
but in an illegal fashion, and we saw in the
PostScript Joe Schmidt, you know, I see them because of
you know, he knows the law book like the back
of his hand, and he referenced Law nine point two
(01:02):
regularly throughout the PostScript. And you can understand why, because
this is a all of his team that has just
needed a good news story, particularly on Australian shores. They
beat England in front of eighty thousand last year at Tickenham,
but this was a moment in front of a record
crowd ninety thousand at the MCG, the biggest crowd in
front of Alliance match, and to kind.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Of not send the match into.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
A serious decider in Sydney this weekend where there will
be another eighty two thousand, it's just a it's a
great missed opportunity and it would have been the biggest
win I think on Australian Shaws since the two thousand
and three semi final, when of course the wall of
his dust is the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So it's a huge, huge miss Christy.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Where is the popularly held view? I mean, I think
most Australian jess would say, you know, it was a penalty.
I think most of our audience, yes today on the
radio here were of that same view. But the British
and Irish Lions fans obviously are equally adamant that there's
nothing to see here. What do you think the neutral things?
Do you think it was a penalty?
Speaker 4 (02:03):
I've got to When I first saw it, and I
even tweeted it, I said that look this is going
to test world Ruggedy's medal because both players are centimeters
off the ground. In the case of color Desano, his
head was probably touched in the ground, that's how far
past it. But he definitely had his hands on the
ball to begin with, and he did have you know,
he was on his feet.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
He beat that. He certainly beat Jack Morgan to the
punch there, and that's the.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Key thing that he deserved the riots there because he's
got his hands over the ball. It's a really interesting
comparison a couple of years ago when Brody Brittalic gets
you know, I think he got sent off for it
against Japan, and an extremely similar case, almost identical, and
yet you know, a red card there and then not
even a penuity on this occasion.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I think Michael Hooper's right.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
If this moment is anywhere between the first and the
seventy fifth minute, I think you see that that's a
penalty and potentially even a yellow card. Unfortunately, we know
that the game is played in gray. Everyone wants a
black and white decision. Very rarely in rugby is the case.
But I think you've got to actually admit that the
law suggests and doesn't even suggest it says that it
(03:14):
should have been a penalty and so that's the frustrating
element to it. And on the other hand, and I've
just written a piece, there was a couple of missed
opportunities in that game, and Will Skelton talked about it
as well. You know, the fact that Tom Liner drops
the ball and then they scored two trials before halftime,
and then Joseph Acousta Suali when it's there to be
absolutely sewn up at twenty six seventeen midway through the
(03:36):
second half, it gets blindsided slightly, didn't catch him pass
when he needed to and he could have sent Tate
McDermott over, which would have probably been an unassailable lead
at that point in time. So there was definitely missed opportunities.
A huge step forward, but it's also just feels like
it's a half empty feeling rather than half full.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, it's a great summary those incidents. Notwithstanding, it was
certainly an improvement on Brisbane, wasn't it. Where did you
see the big improvements from the Wallabies in Melbourne?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Without a shadow of doubt. It's the physicality, it's the sting.
They came and they were ready for a fight. You know,
we saw on the first half in Brisbane. Not only
were they totally physically outmuscled and bullied by the Lions,
we saw moments where Tom Curry is hitting a Wallaby
and Tomliner in the air and you know the Wallabies
are just sitting back and you know there's no protection,
(04:28):
there's no fight there, there's no going into fight and
battle for a bloke plant on his starting test a boo.
That was the complete contrast at the MCG that they
were there from the moment from the outset. Even Will Skelton,
I know that he gave a had a stern warning
delivered to him when he hit take furlong slightly late
(04:50):
when there was a knock on in the build up
to it. But that was a moment there early in
the first half which just said hang on, we're here.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And yes, the lines scored a.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Second later, but you know, a couple of trials later
and the Wallabies just out muscled them. You know, Rob team,
he Will skelt and we saw Dave Pereki come back
and yes he's not the man laying on the big shots,
but collectively the line the Wallabies walked taller, I think,
and we saw that and I think a lot of
(05:20):
people were going, why was Rob Balatin.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Come off at halftime?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Was he not returned on the field And a lot
more people and respected Wallabi's have been asking that over
the last twenty four hours or so, thinking that he
should have been even though he was tightening up in
the calf.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
There's the way to keep the big man going and warm,
and that's to put him on the bike.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
And people were saying that you shouldn't be thinking about
the spring box and the Rugby Championship was just a
couple of weeks away. They needed to win that Test
and unfortunately when he and Skelton walked off, the Wallabies
didn't really fire a shot in that last half an
hour where they needed to land one more blow and
they simply couldn't.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Does Tom Liner appeal as the long term first five
for Australia to you?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I think so.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
The fact that they didn't turn to Ben Donaldson, a
bloke with about twenty tests experience of World Cup campaign
under his belt, The fact he didn't even get on
on Saturday night suggests that the Wallabies don't necessarily trust
him the management a twenty five year old, as I say,
with some tests under his belt. You know, outside of that,
Nolla is going to be heading to Japan later this year.
(06:30):
It's very unlikely that he will come back in twenty seven.
And then outside of that, you know the folies, the
James O'Connors, they're thirty five now. If they were ever
going to play a Test again for the Wallabies, it
was during this series. So I think it is a
Tomliner unless they go out there and sign a big
name regular league player, which I don't think is about
(06:50):
to occur. I think they saw that this was an
opportunity to develop Tomliner on the biggest stage against the
Lions side.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You've got to question the timing of that.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
But at the same time, I think we've seen that
he's pretty unflappable. He's got a very composed head, got
a reasonable skill set and I think he's a reasonable
player to build the side around. Is he ever going
to be a rich humuhwonga and an absolutely boss and
commanded a game or an old Farrell. I'm not sure
given his quiet nature, but I think he's a very
(07:24):
competent ten.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
All right, So looking ahead christ the Test three against
the British and Irish line Sydney this coming Saturday. Then
it's two tests, tough tests away in South Africa joe
Burg and Cape Town, back home for tests against Argentina,
and then home and away against the All Blacks for
the Bledisloe Cup. A big part of me actually wishes
this was the other way around, the first game in
Perth and the second at Eden Park in Auckland. But
(07:45):
even given that, how strongly do you perceive the Wallabies
could challenge the All Blacks for the Bleederslow Cup this year.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I just hope that the Wallabies aren't limping into that
series because they need some momentum and all bokes found
out last year just how hard it is to win
a Test in South Africa. You know, there were two
of the great Tests and a mini series and they
didn't come away with a win.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Now, if the Wallabies go.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
There and they lose, they come back and it's almost
a must win territory against Argentina, you know, not so
much to win silverware, but for pride and honor and
momentum ahead of the twenty seven World Cup.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
It will be tough though, because.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
We'll they be walking wounded off the back of the
South African tour. So I preface talking about the blood
slow with that, because as you've mentioned, very difficult to
go to New Zealand to beat the All Blacks. The
Wallabies haven't done it since two thousand and one win
across the Ditch, So I just hope that they're not
going in there when they're down five or six blokes.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
My understanding is will.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Scot is not even going to be there given some
matches full outside of the international window. Plus he's just
had such a long year up in the French top fourteen,
so already some of the big games are going to
be missing. You know, is a Langy Gleson up in
France at that time? You know where's Tom Hooper? So
I don't know if they will challenged the All Blacks.
(09:07):
I thought last year was a golden opportunity to do that,
and they came within striking distance at the death in
Sydney after a really sleepy start in Sydney. But this
looks like an All Black side second year under Scott Robinson,
which would be a much sterner test. We already saw,
even though that the French brought a third string team
(09:28):
that they've got depth just as much as South Africa,
I think in terms of how big bit is, so
they'll be match hardened after already coming up against South
African Argentina. It's going to be an almighty year for
the Wallabies. I just hoped, as I say, that they're
standing there and that they can go in there with
a glimmer of hope.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Interesting times. Indeed, thanks so much for your time tonight, Christy.
Really appreciate you taking a call.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Enjoy your evening, Kis you enjoy yours too, Christy.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Thanks indeed. Christy Duran he's editor of The Raw. Hear
him on the esp In Scrum podcast as well with
some interesting thoughts. I didn't even really thought that until
we started chatting that by the time the bledder Slow
Cup rolls around, the Australians had a heck of a
lot of rugby. You think about these three tests against
the British and Irish Lions, massive occasions, and then they've
(10:18):
got to go to South Africa and play twice over there,
a couple of games at home against Argentina before they
even get to the Bledisloe. So you know we're talking
about the injuries before that. The All Blacks have had
us to just three Test matches and you wonder about
fatigue and the impact on some of those key Australian
players off the back of some big, big test matches
(10:39):
before we even get to the Bledisloe Cup.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Duncy Wildergrave
from News Talk zedb.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Let's Bring in Rugby editor at the Raw, Christy Doran.
You can also hear Christy on the ESPN Scrum podcast.
Christy before we talk about the threat that the Assies
might present to the All Blacks later in the year.
Is there still a sense of deflation among Ossie rugby
fans after Saturday night?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Oh, you better believe it.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
And you just have to look at some of the
headlines today with Phil will talking about the fact that
his demanding answers about how.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
That decision at the end.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
And I say that decision because I'm pretty sure most
of your listeners would have seen it or at least
heard about it. Carlo Tizzano being blasted off the ball
but in an illegal fashion, and we saw in the
PostScript Joe Schmidt, you know, I see them because of
you know, he knows the law book like the back
of his hand, and he referenced Law nine point two
(01:02):
regularly throughout the PostScript. And you can understand why, because
this is a all of his team that has just
needed a good news story, particularly on Australian shores. They
beat England in front of eighty thousand last year at Tickenham,
but this was a moment in front of a record
crowd ninety thousand at the MCG, the biggest crowd in
front of Alliance match, and to kind.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Of not send the match into.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
A serious decider in Sydney this weekend where there will
be another eighty two thousand, it's just a it's a
great missed opportunity and it would have been the biggest
win I think on Australian Shaws since the two thousand
and three semi final, when of course the wall of
his dust is the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So it's a huge, huge miss Christy.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Where is the popularly held view? I mean, I think
most Australian jess would say, you know, it was a penalty.
I think most of our audience, yes today on the
radio here were of that same view. But the British
and Irish Lions fans obviously are equally adamant that there's
nothing to see here. What do you think the neutral things?
Do you think it was a penalty?
Speaker 4 (02:03):
I've got to When I first saw it, and I
even tweeted it, I said that look this is going
to test world Ruggedy's medal because both players are centimeters
off the ground. In the case of color Desano, his
head was probably touched in the ground, that's how far
past it. But he definitely had his hands on the
ball to begin with, and he did have you know,
he was on his feet.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
He beat that. He certainly beat Jack Morgan to the
punch there, and that's the.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Key thing that he deserved the riots there because he's
got his hands over the ball. It's a really interesting
comparison a couple of years ago when Brody Brittalic gets
you know, I think he got sent off for it
against Japan, and an extremely similar case, almost identical, and
yet you know, a red card there and then not
even a penuity on this occasion.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I think Michael Hooper's right.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
If this moment is anywhere between the first and the
seventy fifth minute, I think you see that that's a
penalty and potentially even a yellow card. Unfortunately, we know
that the game is played in gray. Everyone wants a
black and white decision. Very rarely in rugby is the case.
But I think you've got to actually admit that the
law suggests and doesn't even suggest it says that it
(03:14):
should have been a penalty and so that's the frustrating
element to it. And on the other hand, and I've
just written a piece, there was a couple of missed
opportunities in that game, and Will Skelton talked about it
as well. You know, the fact that Tom Liner drops
the ball and then they scored two trials before halftime,
and then Joseph Acousta Suali when it's there to be
absolutely sewn up at twenty six seventeen midway through the
(03:36):
second half, it gets blindsided slightly, didn't catch him pass
when he needed to and he could have sent Tate
McDermott over, which would have probably been an unassailable lead
at that point in time. So there was definitely missed opportunities.
A huge step forward, but it's also just feels like
it's a half empty feeling rather than half full.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, it's a great summary those incidents. Notwithstanding, it was
certainly an improvement on Brisbane, wasn't it. Where did you
see the big improvements from the Wallabies in Melbourne?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Without a shadow of doubt. It's the physicality, it's the sting.
They came and they were ready for a fight. You know,
we saw on the first half in Brisbane. Not only
were they totally physically outmuscled and bullied by the Lions,
we saw moments where Tom Curry is hitting a Wallaby
and Tomliner in the air and you know the Wallabies
are just sitting back and you know there's no protection,
(04:28):
there's no fight there, there's no going into fight and
battle for a bloke plant on his starting test a boo.
That was the complete contrast at the MCG that they
were there from the moment from the outset. Even Will Skelton,
I know that he gave a had a stern warning
delivered to him when he hit take furlong slightly late
(04:50):
when there was a knock on in the build up
to it. But that was a moment there early in
the first half which just said hang on, we're here.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And yes, the lines scored a.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Second later, but you know, a couple of trials later
and the Wallabies just out muscled them. You know, Rob team,
he Will skelt and we saw Dave Pereki come back
and yes he's not the man laying on the big shots,
but collectively the line the Wallabies walked taller, I think,
and we saw that and I think a lot of
(05:20):
people were going, why was Rob Balatin.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Come off at halftime?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Was he not returned on the field And a lot
more people and respected Wallabi's have been asking that over
the last twenty four hours or so, thinking that he
should have been even though he was tightening up in
the calf.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
There's the way to keep the big man going and warm,
and that's to put him on the bike.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
And people were saying that you shouldn't be thinking about
the spring box and the Rugby Championship was just a
couple of weeks away. They needed to win that Test
and unfortunately when he and Skelton walked off, the Wallabies
didn't really fire a shot in that last half an
hour where they needed to land one more blow and
they simply couldn't.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Does Tom Liner appeal as the long term first five
for Australia to you?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I think so.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
The fact that they didn't turn to Ben Donaldson, a
bloke with about twenty tests experience of World Cup campaign
under his belt, The fact he didn't even get on
on Saturday night suggests that the Wallabies don't necessarily trust
him the management a twenty five year old, as I say,
with some tests under his belt. You know, outside of that,
Nolla is going to be heading to Japan later this year.
(06:30):
It's very unlikely that he will come back in twenty seven.
And then outside of that, you know the folies, the
James O'Connors, they're thirty five now. If they were ever
going to play a Test again for the Wallabies, it
was during this series. So I think it is a
Tomliner unless they go out there and sign a big
name regular league player, which I don't think is about
(06:50):
to occur. I think they saw that this was an
opportunity to develop Tomliner on the biggest stage against the
Lions side.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You've got to question the timing of that.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
But at the same time, I think we've seen that
he's pretty unflappable. He's got a very composed head, got
a reasonable skill set and I think he's a reasonable
player to build the side around. Is he ever going
to be a rich humuhwonga and an absolutely boss and
commanded a game or an old Farrell. I'm not sure
given his quiet nature, but I think he's a very
(07:24):
competent ten.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
All right, So looking ahead christ the Test three against
the British and Irish line Sydney this coming Saturday. Then
it's two tests, tough tests away in South Africa joe
Burg and Cape Town, back home for tests against Argentina,
and then home and away against the All Blacks for
the Bledisloe Cup. A big part of me actually wishes
this was the other way around, the first game in
Perth and the second at Eden Park in Auckland. But
(07:45):
even given that, how strongly do you perceive the Wallabies
could challenge the All Blacks for the Bleederslow Cup this year.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I just hope that the Wallabies aren't limping into that
series because they need some momentum and all bokes found
out last year just how hard it is to win
a Test in South Africa. You know, there were two
of the great Tests and a mini series and they
didn't come away with a win.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Now, if the Wallabies go.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
There and they lose, they come back and it's almost
a must win territory against Argentina, you know, not so
much to win silverware, but for pride and honor and
momentum ahead of the twenty seven World Cup.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
It will be tough though, because.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
We'll they be walking wounded off the back of the
South African tour. So I preface talking about the blood
slow with that, because as you've mentioned, very difficult to
go to New Zealand to beat the All Blacks. The
Wallabies haven't done it since two thousand and one win
across the Ditch, So I just hope that they're not
going in there when they're down five or six blokes.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
My understanding is will.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Scot is not even going to be there given some
matches full outside of the international window. Plus he's just
had such a long year up in the French top fourteen,
so already some of the big games are going to
be missing. You know, is a Langy Gleson up in
France at that time? You know where's Tom Hooper? So
I don't know if they will challenged the All Blacks.
(09:07):
I thought last year was a golden opportunity to do that,
and they came within striking distance at the death in
Sydney after a really sleepy start in Sydney. But this
looks like an All Black side second year under Scott Robinson,
which would be a much sterner test. We already saw,
even though that the French brought a third string team
(09:28):
that they've got depth just as much as South Africa,
I think in terms of how big bit is, so
they'll be match hardened after already coming up against South
African Argentina. It's going to be an almighty year for
the Wallabies. I just hoped, as I say, that they're
standing there and that they can go in there with
a glimmer of hope.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Interesting times. Indeed, thanks so much for your time tonight, Christy.
Really appreciate you taking a call.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Enjoy your evening, Kis you enjoy yours too, Christy.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Thanks indeed. Christy Duran he's editor of The Raw. Hear
him on the esp In Scrum podcast as well with
some interesting thoughts. I didn't even really thought that until
we started chatting that by the time the bledder Slow
Cup rolls around, the Australians had a heck of a
lot of rugby. You think about these three tests against
the British and Irish Lions, massive occasions, and then they've
(10:18):
got to go to South Africa and play twice over there,
a couple of games at home against Argentina before they
even get to the Bledisloe. So you know we're talking
about the injuries before that. The All Blacks have had
us to just three Test matches and you wonder about
fatigue and the impact on some of those key Australian
players off the back of some big, big test matches
(10:39):
before we even get to the Bledisloe Cup.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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