September 9, 2025 • 10 mins
The All Blacks defended their fortress on Saturday night, defeating the Springboks 24-17 at Eden Park in a strong performance.
D'Arcy caught up with former All Blacks coach John Hart to break down what went well and what didn't go so well in the first test, as well as look ahead to game two.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talks'd be good.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Ay, John, Hi Darcy, how are you very well?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Looking forward to this weekend? Like we all are, Maybe
not the energy around last weekend with the Eden Park situation,
but we've got to put that behind us and move
into the future. But before we do that, what do
we glean out of that game? What's your big takeaway
from that Eden Park fixture?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, it was a fantastic event, great atmosphere as you
say leading into it, and obviously with the unbeaten record
on the line, it's got out of value. But I
thought it was a wonderful occasion. The result didn't surprise me.
I thought the South Africans were very very conservative in
their selection in that Test match, particularly at ten and fifteen,
(00:56):
and I think it played out that way. They really
didn't have the enterprise or speed I think they needed
to compete or Blacks would have been delighted with their start.
They scored a couple of very very good try, well
taken tries and probably that was the winning of the
game given the conditions, and they built on that, although
(01:16):
you know they still wouldn't be overly happy I think
with the second half, and you know, not particularly last
minutes when you know something had gone the other way,
it could have been a drawer, and quite honestly, the
All Blacks were more dominant than that and deserved a win.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
So the drop maybe in intensity, maybe in skill, I'm
not sure you put it down to it in that
second half. Is this reasons not be alarmed. But we've
seen this under previous iterations of Scott Robertson's team that
the last twenty minutes, the last forty minutes been problematic
for them.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, it changes, and you know they probably are still
looking for that real eighty minute performance. But you know,
I think you also got to realize that these games
against the quality of the opposition that you've got in
South Africa Argentina I thought were very good and Australia
coming up, you know you're not going to dominate for
(02:12):
eighty minutes. You're going to you know, the game's going
to go in and out, and that's what happened in
the weekend. I thought the I thought the South Africans
were average in the first half. I thought they were
very average. Second half. They lifted their intensity, they played
it a little more accurately and as a consequence that
put pressure on the All Blacks. But look, the All
Blacks in my view line out with very strong scrum
(02:35):
came under pressure. No doubt they'd have some concerns there,
particularly the one that they got smashed under the goal post.
But other than that, you know, high ball still a problem,
not totally solved. We didn't look comfortable. So there's a
lot of work ons and I've no doubt that this
weekend there'll be more work ons because South Africans, you know,
Razi Erasmus is he's different and he's either a genius
(02:59):
or I'm not sure, after you know, changing Virtue's whole
back line. And whilst I expected changes at fifty and ten,
particularly younger players coming in and more skill, more speed,
I'm very surprised that he's changed in midfield because the
midfield has become one is one of their strengths physically
in defense and you know, pretty strong on attack and
(03:21):
that they put pressure on the opposition. So I'm very
surprised to see those changes.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
The team from the Eden Park match, as you said,
very conservative, even though Rasi's had a field day doing
all sorts of strange thing. Where did that conservative come
from that? Why do you think he went in that direction.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I think he thought they were good enough to win.
I think the reason I think he picked a team
that he thought would win. I think he thought they
could dominate in the physical area. And you know, that's
where he would have got a big surprise, because the
All Blacks really matched him physically, and the young forwards,
you know, like Parker and Satiti stood up and you know,
(04:02):
and Savia continued his very good form and you know,
to to buy who's in his rightful position. I thought
all year that you know, he's the best lock in
the country playing at Sex and I was delighted to
see what he did coming back and at Locke and
you know, the All Black forwards all round played very
very well. I think a little bit of easy and
(04:24):
the scrum in the second half which would be a
bit of a worry.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And the look on the face of to provide I
don't think i've seen it All Black enjoy himself so
much and out in the middle there he was loving
every engagement. He was absolutely punned for it.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, he's an important part of you All Black team.
I think he brings a lot of energy and he's
very accurate now and he's a very good tactician leaning
out wise, so he's you know, his game is growing.
He's becoming a real dominant personality within that team on
the field.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
The changes made this time around by Ras Marasmus, you
touched on a couple of those changes. Is this very
much look for the next couple of years and giving
these guys a run, because it does seem like baby Barthorter,
they've really gotten rid of a lot of people. Watson
has drive. Do you think John behind these changes?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Well, I have no doubt he was very keen to
win at Eaton Park, and no doubt he'd be very
keen to winning Wellington because you know he loses in Wellington.
He's out of a rugby championship, so his season's on
the line next Saturday at Wellington. So he's obviously decided
to cut away the conservative approach that he had last week.
(05:41):
And look, he's some of those players are very exciting,
but I'm just not sure the continuity, the change in selection,
whether they can be as fluent as they'll need to be.
But I'm sure there'll be a little more adventure showing
with the with their with their backs and honestly, I'd
expect their forwards to play a lot better than they
(06:01):
did last week.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Is there a lot better? As in just slightly more focused,
slightly more more accurate. Did they need any more aggression?
Where else? Did you see places for them to lift?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
John? Well, their line out was ordinary, you know, and
South Africa's lineouts not ordinary, you know. And they made
they lost all they shouldn't lose, and so I'm thinking
some of those things will just be real focus for them.
And the physicality they'll know that's the game that never changes.
(06:30):
They'll have that, but you know, it's all about putting
pressure on the opposition, and they didn't really put pressure
on the opposition. They made mistakes, they were dropping stuff
that some of it were schoolboy stuff. So I mean,
I think they really will. There'll be a step up
from them on Saturday and we're going to have to match.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
That more of the same from selection wise. Of Scott Robertson,
I was lifted at the start, well not the start
at the end of last week when I saw the team,
because it wasn't a knee jerk reaction to that loss
against Argentina. He stuck with some of the combinations, stuck
with that consistently and see which is very helpful if
you're trying to develop a start on a team. Do
(07:10):
you see that altering or faltering much in the next
couple of days when the All Black team comes out.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
John, No, not really. I think he's showing his hand.
I think he's found now, you know. I mean, he
played Parker at eight against Argentina. I think he looks
far more at home at six, and we're two pre
high back into Locke. I think the pack will be
much the same. Obviously, Cody Taylor will be out, and
(07:35):
he may swap around some of the propping, propping the
four props, might you know, might he might play with that.
But I don't think the personnel will change at all
except at hooker and in the backs. Well. Nrale will
almost certainly be out by the looks of it. So
if that's the case, you could expect Caleb Clark to
come back in. We've still not we're still not great
(07:57):
in the high ball and then you know or as
options of course, is also to consider Damian McKenzie at
fallback and Will Jordan on the wing, which is another possibility,
but look, I don't think there'll be much change and
half back. Half back's interesting because of the injuries. I'm
not just not sure where they are. Ratama and Hotham
possibly coming back. But one of the one of the
(08:20):
real good things coming out on Saturday night was thin
Christie's performance at halfback for the All Blacks because you know,
he had an excellent game and his work rate was fantastic.
I see one right up said that he through some
wild passes. I think there was one. He must have
run about one hundred in the game, So yeah, I
thought he I thought his contribution was very special. And
(08:43):
Bowden Barrett I still think was probably the dominant player
for the All Blacks, and he made the big plays
that counted. The kick for Narawa, the fifty twenty two
kick that got them the line out that won the
second try. You know, he was a key player for them.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Nice to know you agree with Sir Graham Henry not directly,
but didn't directly. You had him on last week and
he said only Christy was the best All Black player
in the park against Argentina. I expect more from in
that vein because he's at home, so lovely, isn't when
a player gets dropped and comes back and actually has
a palpable effect on the side.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, well, you know he's clearly in there by eyes.
Was number four, number four or five this year and
he was dropped last year. He's come back. You know,
he's had his injuries during the year with the Blues,
so he was never really one hundred and now to
see him backfiring like he did, I mean, I think
it was really good, good all round.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
And finally John Hart and as always, thanks very much
for your time, for your expertise, for your opinion. There's
been a couple of steps backwards, a couple of steps forward,
one step back, two steps forward, three steps backward forward.
It's very much up and down. But is the trend
of this Robertson team over the time he's been in
charge of it, is this moving on the way up.
(09:58):
He's seeing positive things here?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, I thought we saw a lot more positive things
on the weekend. I reserve judgment only solely on the
basis that it'll be very interesting to see what the
South Africans bring to Wellington and what and how the
All Blacks respond. But it'll be another huge challenge. And
you know the great result would be if the Australians
got up and could beat the Argentinians again and the
All Blacks one, it'd make the Blaslow Cup in the
(10:22):
last two games against Australia. Great fixtures.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talks'd be good.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Ay, John, Hi Darcy, how are you very well?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Looking forward to this weekend? Like we all are, Maybe
not the energy around last weekend with the Eden Park situation,
but we've got to put that behind us and move
into the future. But before we do that, what do
we glean out of that game? What's your big takeaway
from that Eden Park fixture?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, it was a fantastic event, great atmosphere as you
say leading into it, and obviously with the unbeaten record
on the line, it's got out of value. But I
thought it was a wonderful occasion. The result didn't surprise me.
I thought the South Africans were very very conservative in
their selection in that Test match, particularly at ten and fifteen,
(00:56):
and I think it played out that way. They really
didn't have the enterprise or speed I think they needed
to compete or Blacks would have been delighted with their start.
They scored a couple of very very good try, well
taken tries and probably that was the winning of the
game given the conditions, and they built on that, although
(01:16):
you know they still wouldn't be overly happy I think
with the second half, and you know, not particularly last
minutes when you know something had gone the other way,
it could have been a drawer, and quite honestly, the
All Blacks were more dominant than that and deserved a win.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
So the drop maybe in intensity, maybe in skill, I'm
not sure you put it down to it in that
second half. Is this reasons not be alarmed. But we've
seen this under previous iterations of Scott Robertson's team that
the last twenty minutes, the last forty minutes been problematic
for them.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, it changes, and you know they probably are still
looking for that real eighty minute performance. But you know,
I think you also got to realize that these games
against the quality of the opposition that you've got in
South Africa Argentina I thought were very good and Australia
coming up, you know you're not going to dominate for
(02:12):
eighty minutes. You're going to you know, the game's going
to go in and out, and that's what happened in
the weekend. I thought the I thought the South Africans
were average in the first half. I thought they were
very average. Second half. They lifted their intensity, they played
it a little more accurately and as a consequence that
put pressure on the All Blacks. But look, the All
Blacks in my view line out with very strong scrum
(02:35):
came under pressure. No doubt they'd have some concerns there,
particularly the one that they got smashed under the goal post.
But other than that, you know, high ball still a problem,
not totally solved. We didn't look comfortable. So there's a
lot of work ons and I've no doubt that this
weekend there'll be more work ons because South Africans, you know,
Razi Erasmus is he's different and he's either a genius
(02:59):
or I'm not sure, after you know, changing Virtue's whole
back line. And whilst I expected changes at fifty and ten,
particularly younger players coming in and more skill, more speed,
I'm very surprised that he's changed in midfield because the
midfield has become one is one of their strengths physically
in defense and you know, pretty strong on attack and
(03:21):
that they put pressure on the opposition. So I'm very
surprised to see those changes.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
The team from the Eden Park match, as you said,
very conservative, even though Rasi's had a field day doing
all sorts of strange thing. Where did that conservative come
from that? Why do you think he went in that direction.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I think he thought they were good enough to win.
I think the reason I think he picked a team
that he thought would win. I think he thought they
could dominate in the physical area. And you know, that's
where he would have got a big surprise, because the
All Blacks really matched him physically, and the young forwards,
you know, like Parker and Satiti stood up and you know,
(04:02):
and Savia continued his very good form and you know,
to to buy who's in his rightful position. I thought
all year that you know, he's the best lock in
the country playing at Sex and I was delighted to
see what he did coming back and at Locke and
you know, the All Black forwards all round played very
very well. I think a little bit of easy and
(04:24):
the scrum in the second half which would be a
bit of a worry.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And the look on the face of to provide I
don't think i've seen it All Black enjoy himself so
much and out in the middle there he was loving
every engagement. He was absolutely punned for it.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, he's an important part of you All Black team.
I think he brings a lot of energy and he's
very accurate now and he's a very good tactician leaning
out wise, so he's you know, his game is growing.
He's becoming a real dominant personality within that team on
the field.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
The changes made this time around by Ras Marasmus, you
touched on a couple of those changes. Is this very
much look for the next couple of years and giving
these guys a run, because it does seem like baby Barthorter,
they've really gotten rid of a lot of people. Watson
has drive. Do you think John behind these changes?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Well, I have no doubt he was very keen to
win at Eaton Park, and no doubt he'd be very
keen to winning Wellington because you know he loses in Wellington.
He's out of a rugby championship, so his season's on
the line next Saturday at Wellington. So he's obviously decided
to cut away the conservative approach that he had last week.
(05:41):
And look, he's some of those players are very exciting,
but I'm just not sure the continuity, the change in selection,
whether they can be as fluent as they'll need to be.
But I'm sure there'll be a little more adventure showing
with the with their with their backs and honestly, I'd
expect their forwards to play a lot better than they
(06:01):
did last week.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Is there a lot better? As in just slightly more focused,
slightly more more accurate. Did they need any more aggression?
Where else? Did you see places for them to lift?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
John? Well, their line out was ordinary, you know, and
South Africa's lineouts not ordinary, you know. And they made
they lost all they shouldn't lose, and so I'm thinking
some of those things will just be real focus for them.
And the physicality they'll know that's the game that never changes.
(06:30):
They'll have that, but you know, it's all about putting
pressure on the opposition, and they didn't really put pressure
on the opposition. They made mistakes, they were dropping stuff
that some of it were schoolboy stuff. So I mean,
I think they really will. There'll be a step up
from them on Saturday and we're going to have to match.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
That more of the same from selection wise. Of Scott Robertson,
I was lifted at the start, well not the start
at the end of last week when I saw the team,
because it wasn't a knee jerk reaction to that loss
against Argentina. He stuck with some of the combinations, stuck
with that consistently and see which is very helpful if
you're trying to develop a start on a team. Do
(07:10):
you see that altering or faltering much in the next
couple of days when the All Black team comes out.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
John, No, not really. I think he's showing his hand.
I think he's found now, you know. I mean, he
played Parker at eight against Argentina. I think he looks
far more at home at six, and we're two pre
high back into Locke. I think the pack will be
much the same. Obviously, Cody Taylor will be out, and
(07:35):
he may swap around some of the propping, propping the
four props, might you know, might he might play with that.
But I don't think the personnel will change at all
except at hooker and in the backs. Well. Nrale will
almost certainly be out by the looks of it. So
if that's the case, you could expect Caleb Clark to
come back in. We've still not we're still not great
(07:57):
in the high ball and then you know or as
options of course, is also to consider Damian McKenzie at
fallback and Will Jordan on the wing, which is another possibility,
but look, I don't think there'll be much change and
half back. Half back's interesting because of the injuries. I'm
not just not sure where they are. Ratama and Hotham
possibly coming back. But one of the one of the
(08:20):
real good things coming out on Saturday night was thin
Christie's performance at halfback for the All Blacks because you know,
he had an excellent game and his work rate was fantastic.
I see one right up said that he through some
wild passes. I think there was one. He must have
run about one hundred in the game, So yeah, I
thought he I thought his contribution was very special. And
(08:43):
Bowden Barrett I still think was probably the dominant player
for the All Blacks, and he made the big plays
that counted. The kick for Narawa, the fifty twenty two
kick that got them the line out that won the
second try. You know, he was a key player for them.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Nice to know you agree with Sir Graham Henry not directly,
but didn't directly. You had him on last week and
he said only Christy was the best All Black player
in the park against Argentina. I expect more from in
that vein because he's at home, so lovely, isn't when
a player gets dropped and comes back and actually has
a palpable effect on the side.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, well, you know he's clearly in there by eyes.
Was number four, number four or five this year and
he was dropped last year. He's come back. You know,
he's had his injuries during the year with the Blues,
so he was never really one hundred and now to
see him backfiring like he did, I mean, I think
it was really good, good all round.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
And finally John Hart and as always, thanks very much
for your time, for your expertise, for your opinion. There's
been a couple of steps backwards, a couple of steps forward,
one step back, two steps forward, three steps backward forward.
It's very much up and down. But is the trend
of this Robertson team over the time he's been in
charge of it, is this moving on the way up.
(09:58):
He's seeing positive things here?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, I thought we saw a lot more positive things
on the weekend. I reserve judgment only solely on the
basis that it'll be very interesting to see what the
South Africans bring to Wellington and what and how the
All Blacks respond. But it'll be another huge challenge. And
you know the great result would be if the Australians
got up and could beat the Argentinians again and the
All Blacks one, it'd make the Blaslow Cup in the
(10:22):
last two games against Australia. Great fixtures.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd is a thought-provoking, opinionated, and topic-driven journey through the top sports stories of the day.