September 11, 2025 • 11 mins
The All Blacks have named their 23 to take on the Springboks in the second test in Wellington on Saturday night.
There have been six changes to the starting 15, however the biggest talking point is the new look back three. Will Jordan has been shifted from fullback to the right wing, making way for Damian Mckenzie to start at fullback. On the left wing Chiefs, Bay of Plenty and former sevens star Leroy Carter is making his debut.
D'Arcy spoke with former All Blacks fullback Mils Muliaina to talk about these picks.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
In Sport Today. The team has been named to take
on the spring Box on Saturday night, five past seven.
He can catch that on news Talk ZB with Elliott Smith.
The twenty three been named to take the spring Box
on try and lift the Freedom Cup, try and run
spring Bok noses in the turf in that second test.
(00:36):
Six changes to the starting fifteen seems like an awful lot.
When you look at it, it doesn't look like six
changes That may sound strange, but as what it is right,
doesn't seem like that many. Big talking point here though,
is that the back three, the new look back three,
Will Jordan has been taken away from his best position
(00:57):
shifted to the right wing. Will Jordan's scored a lot
of a lot of tries on the wing, plenty of
should be okay, but he's definitely the fullback, no doubt.
But he's gone to the right one, making way for
Damien McKenzie to start at fall back and then the
joker in the pack or the trump card, which every
way I look at it, and left wing chiefs bay
(01:19):
Plenty and former seven star Leroy Carter is making his debut.
Right interesting twists there for fifteen, fourteen and eleven to
talk about that new combination and the team as a whole,
and we bring the former All Black fallback Mills Mills, Mills,
(01:39):
Milly High any to the program. I've managed to butcher
that one, having like get eight Mills, mate, and thank
you very much for joining us on the program. So
few changes and this is they're not unpredictable changes with
the All Blacks. But are the back three a place
who reson me comfortable with has been adjusted? Did you
see this coming? Are you happy with what race has done?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Oh? Look, I think well one the pretty happy.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I think what sort of appenitly Rory Carda gets an opportunity.
I think condolence is also to Rico and his grandmother passing.
I think that's that's possibly a reason why he's not
kind of there. But they move around with Jordan and
Damie McKenzie at the back.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I think it just gives him a bit more of that.
I think what we've.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Seen at Eaton Park, the ability to be able to
kick a little bit more and kick long as well,
which was something in the South Africans, you know, had
to had to try and come up with a different
plane around it.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So I like it. I don't mind it.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Well, we're still going to get the high balls, so
I think that's the one thing that won't change from
the spring box. And interesting to see that we went out
earlier with your team and you know, lots of changes
there as well.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Rico is not there plainly, really really bad luck for
a money with that rib damage that he's had. So
two changes in the wing and that's probably I know
we want McKenzie. Well, he doesn't fall back anyway. I
think Jordan's been a player at full back. But they
want some kind of consistency, don't they in the wings
and they can't like Plunt. The two guys who haven't
(03:09):
one's never played before for the All Blacks and a
guy he's been on the rest for a while in
Caleb Clark.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And you know that's it's an
area where we.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
It's been talked about a lot, isn't it, Particularly around
the high ball you talk about Caleb Clark.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
I would have thought them they might have been tempted
to go with Caleb.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
You've given he's already played a couple of games for Auckland,
you know, coming back after injury. But Leroy he brings
a bit of energy, doesn't he something we know he's
he courageous and Damian McKenzie I thought, out of the
three of them last week under the high ball, he
was perhaps the best out of them. And the all
Blanks sort of society timed the ball really well going
up in the air. And again I think it also
(03:47):
gives them a really good balance. Not that Will Jordan
can't kick, because he can kick as well, but it
just adds to that. You've got Jordan, You've got McKenzie,
You've got Barrett, the two Barrett brothers obviously that can
kick very well. In one thing that was very clear
early part of the game, the or Blanks.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Were kick him very long.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So as far as death and this is what has
been talking about. So Cartera does get his opportunity. This
is something that is been standing by Razor reasonably well.
He's introduced a lot of fresh meat. I don't believe
I called them that. But he is, isn't he?
Speaker 4 (04:19):
He has not always the easiest thing to do us,
especially when you come off a loss right in Argentina
and the pressure. So he's talked about it, the white
bait theory of four deep and heavy, four guys that
can easily stepped in and to be fair in some cases,
particularly when you're looking at the nine and go to
that earlier than what he would have wanted to do,
(04:41):
the back three has been I wouldn't say a problem
area a problem in selecting those sort of permanent roles
because for a number of years, you know, we've had
wingers that have held those positions for a long time.
So I guess in some ways, if you're looking at
a really good, positively roy cart, he's going to get
(05:03):
an opportunity and it just grows that deep and that
the and I'm hoping that, you know, I'm sure he
will have a very good game. As I said before,
he'll bring a lot of energy, his work grate as exceptional.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
But one thing that he that he won't like his
bravery in the air, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
So he's not the tallest man in the world, was he.
I think he sits around about one meter eighty So
he's not the biggest bloke. Will the disturb him or
anyone on the team that he's not this this great
hulking character. Does it even matter?
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Sometimes it does?
Speaker 4 (05:35):
But I just mentioned here before, I mean, Damien mckins,
I thought it was timing, particularly when you're talking about
the high balls. Was you know, it was pretty sound
last week when he came off the bench one.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I mean not really.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
It's you know, I think it comes down to the
sick I think they're starting to get that right, you know,
in terms of the guys you know, taking the ball
through the year as opposed to getting under the ball.
And I think that's probably a problem area that we're
sort of had. But I don't think so. I think,
as I said, he's he's courageous the high ball, you he'll.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Certainly attack it.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
And you know, given the way they went last week,
you got you know, will on the other side as well.
I think they're getting a lot better in that uh
that department still up, probably not up to the level
that they're wanting. I think that, you know, there's certainly
signs that they're getting a bit better at the high
ball collection area.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Mills mana to join us here on that news talk
as ZB So six changes to the starting side, which
sounds massive, but when you consider the injury problem they've
had it maybe not that bad. And you look at
some of the guys coming back. No I hope them
comes back in the in the nine Jersey. Even though
Finley Christy did taptize very well. This is not untoward
(06:48):
because that's the pecking order right we are. We're not
going to lose too much because of course we've got
Raima and Reygard still wedding around two mills.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Yeah, and it's it's fairly good. It's a good problem
to now have having Finn lady. And you've got to remember,
I mean six weeks ago he wasn't really in the squad.
Was he in for Raiser?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
A call on me. I thought he had a great
game last week, fin Lay.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
That's probably a position I would have thought he would
have put him back out there again for that consistency.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
And the consistency I'm talking about is probably.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
More around the Lucy's his connection with the Lucies and
also a pivotal part with Bowden Barrett. But they obviously
feel that you know, Noah can have been been out
with injury for this w can come back in and
possibly provide something different.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And the difference is maybe.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Around the Ruck you know, maybe they're looking to try
and to take their rocky area a bit more, because
it's certainly a strength of Nola's.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Around that rocky area with Arico and your family bereavement
and his condolences obviously go to him, and to find
around that move from wing to center back out to
the wing again, where do you think he's going to
be comfortable looking into the future? Where's he going? Because
I know that Scott Robertson last week was a little yeah,
(08:00):
maybe not nonplus, but when questioned about Rico was like, well,
it's got a chance to prove us next week, hasn't he?
So where where's he going?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
It's a tough one, isn't it, because he's probably taking
a lot longer to get to where he was is
a winger this year, you know, having played center for
so long. But I still think the consistency that we're
wanting right now is within the midfield, and that's probably
why they're still sticking with Billy Proctor and Jody Barrett.
(08:31):
For Rico's case, he is, he was a world class winger.
I think it's just taking him a bit longer to
adjuster to that side of the game. Last week it
wasn't sort of going around sort of you know, his
his side, but certainly when he went looking for ball
he looked a little bit more dominant.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I think it is wing. I think the beauty of
what what we've got at.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
The moment is that he can equally you know, slot
into center and that's probably the cover that you get
and the reason why I say that it could have
an influence on where you know, they go six two
split on on the beach at some stage you know,
later in the season, but I definite think for now
it's you know, Billy Procter and Jordi Barren at the
starting to form a nice sort of cohesive combination in
(09:13):
the midfield.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Well, he gives people chances. I'll give that to Scott Robertson.
He gave Damian McKenzie plenty of time at ten last year.
Didn't quite work out, so be it. But he doesn't
throw the baby out with the bath water, and that's
got to be respected. And just touching on the ability
to run around that back three then to center back again,
you've experienced it yourself. How complex is that for a
rugby player to settle into a role that you've already
(09:37):
settled into one very different and then you're back into
another one again. Is that quite a lot of complexities
around that, Mills, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
There is, And particularly when you're talking about a role
that you play, it, I mean a lot of it.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
They say, hey, you're you're still on the wing, you're roaming,
but it's not it's the area that you have.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
You've got to find connection, you know, with the other
the other two guys a little bit different when you're
at center because it's from a physical.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Point of view. You know, you've got to you've got
to be a lot more.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Demanding on yourself because it's traffic coming down your channel
all the time.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
But you've also got to connect with you your second five.
You're not just defending on one side of the field.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
You've got to lock up and start organizing who has
to go and then she's split. So that's kind of why,
you know, I've got a bit of you got to
have a bit of patience with the movement out from
from center to wing for ECO, because they're two totally
different positions because you're covering a different sort of areas
and the back three of you is so much space
at the beck that you have to cover compared to
(10:35):
center when you're organizing, so it does take a.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Bit of time.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
I would have liked to say that this game here
would have been a great opportunity for you know, Rico
just really start getting you.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Know, that rhythm sort of back.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
But it's not to be unfortunate with the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
It's arisen And one last thing for you, Milsen, as always,
thanks so much for your time and expertise. Reuben Love
that finds himself on the bench in Wellington at home,
that's a good call.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Yeah, it's great, isn't it. I mean you spoke about
it before, Dus. I mean the opportunity to grow that
sort of depth.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
We know what he can do.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
He can cover both ten and fifteen and being you
know in Wellington as well. I mean he's an X player.
He's expected player, isn't he. So it's great to see
him on the bench. Hopefully he hits some he hits
some game time this weekend. But just another opportunity for
guys to get game time. And I like this because
you often.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Don't realize the pressures that Razor and the All Black
coaches are under.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
But to make changes like they have and to trust
and the guys that are coming into into it just
goes to show. They'd say, there's a real belief in
terms of you know what's coming up, what's coming in
terms about deep for the future.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks
they'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
In Sport Today. The team has been named to take
on the spring Box on Saturday night, five past seven.
He can catch that on news Talk ZB with Elliott Smith.
The twenty three been named to take the spring Box
on try and lift the Freedom Cup, try and run
spring Bok noses in the turf in that second test.
(00:36):
Six changes to the starting fifteen seems like an awful lot.
When you look at it, it doesn't look like six
changes That may sound strange, but as what it is right,
doesn't seem like that many. Big talking point here though,
is that the back three, the new look back three,
Will Jordan has been taken away from his best position
(00:57):
shifted to the right wing. Will Jordan's scored a lot
of a lot of tries on the wing, plenty of
should be okay, but he's definitely the fullback, no doubt.
But he's gone to the right one, making way for
Damien McKenzie to start at fall back and then the
joker in the pack or the trump card, which every
way I look at it, and left wing chiefs bay
(01:19):
Plenty and former seven star Leroy Carter is making his debut.
Right interesting twists there for fifteen, fourteen and eleven to
talk about that new combination and the team as a whole,
and we bring the former All Black fallback Mills Mills, Mills,
(01:39):
Milly High any to the program. I've managed to butcher
that one, having like get eight Mills, mate, and thank
you very much for joining us on the program. So
few changes and this is they're not unpredictable changes with
the All Blacks. But are the back three a place
who reson me comfortable with has been adjusted? Did you
see this coming? Are you happy with what race has done?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Oh? Look, I think well one the pretty happy.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I think what sort of appenitly Rory Carda gets an opportunity.
I think condolence is also to Rico and his grandmother passing.
I think that's that's possibly a reason why he's not
kind of there. But they move around with Jordan and
Damie McKenzie at the back.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I think it just gives him a bit more of that.
I think what we've.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Seen at Eaton Park, the ability to be able to
kick a little bit more and kick long as well,
which was something in the South Africans, you know, had
to had to try and come up with a different
plane around it.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So I like it. I don't mind it.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Well, we're still going to get the high balls, so
I think that's the one thing that won't change from
the spring box. And interesting to see that we went out
earlier with your team and you know, lots of changes
there as well.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Rico is not there plainly, really really bad luck for
a money with that rib damage that he's had. So
two changes in the wing and that's probably I know
we want McKenzie. Well, he doesn't fall back anyway. I
think Jordan's been a player at full back. But they
want some kind of consistency, don't they in the wings
and they can't like Plunt. The two guys who haven't
(03:09):
one's never played before for the All Blacks and a
guy he's been on the rest for a while in
Caleb Clark.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And you know that's it's an
area where we.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
It's been talked about a lot, isn't it, Particularly around
the high ball you talk about Caleb Clark.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
I would have thought them they might have been tempted
to go with Caleb.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
You've given he's already played a couple of games for Auckland,
you know, coming back after injury. But Leroy he brings
a bit of energy, doesn't he something we know he's
he courageous and Damian McKenzie I thought, out of the
three of them last week under the high ball, he
was perhaps the best out of them. And the all
Blanks sort of society timed the ball really well going
up in the air. And again I think it also
(03:47):
gives them a really good balance. Not that Will Jordan
can't kick, because he can kick as well, but it
just adds to that. You've got Jordan, You've got McKenzie,
You've got Barrett, the two Barrett brothers obviously that can
kick very well. In one thing that was very clear
early part of the game, the or Blanks.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Were kick him very long.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So as far as death and this is what has
been talking about. So Cartera does get his opportunity. This
is something that is been standing by Razor reasonably well.
He's introduced a lot of fresh meat. I don't believe
I called them that. But he is, isn't he?
Speaker 4 (04:19):
He has not always the easiest thing to do us,
especially when you come off a loss right in Argentina
and the pressure. So he's talked about it, the white
bait theory of four deep and heavy, four guys that
can easily stepped in and to be fair in some cases,
particularly when you're looking at the nine and go to
that earlier than what he would have wanted to do,
(04:41):
the back three has been I wouldn't say a problem
area a problem in selecting those sort of permanent roles
because for a number of years, you know, we've had
wingers that have held those positions for a long time.
So I guess in some ways, if you're looking at
a really good, positively roy cart, he's going to get
(05:03):
an opportunity and it just grows that deep and that
the and I'm hoping that, you know, I'm sure he
will have a very good game. As I said before,
he'll bring a lot of energy, his work grate as exceptional.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
But one thing that he that he won't like his
bravery in the air, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
So he's not the tallest man in the world, was he.
I think he sits around about one meter eighty So
he's not the biggest bloke. Will the disturb him or
anyone on the team that he's not this this great
hulking character. Does it even matter?
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Sometimes it does?
Speaker 4 (05:35):
But I just mentioned here before, I mean, Damien mckins,
I thought it was timing, particularly when you're talking about
the high balls. Was you know, it was pretty sound
last week when he came off the bench one.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I mean not really.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
It's you know, I think it comes down to the
sick I think they're starting to get that right, you know,
in terms of the guys you know, taking the ball
through the year as opposed to getting under the ball.
And I think that's probably a problem area that we're
sort of had. But I don't think so. I think,
as I said, he's he's courageous the high ball, you he'll.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Certainly attack it.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
And you know, given the way they went last week,
you got you know, will on the other side as well.
I think they're getting a lot better in that uh
that department still up, probably not up to the level
that they're wanting. I think that, you know, there's certainly
signs that they're getting a bit better at the high
ball collection area.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Mills mana to join us here on that news talk
as ZB So six changes to the starting side, which
sounds massive, but when you consider the injury problem they've
had it maybe not that bad. And you look at
some of the guys coming back. No I hope them
comes back in the in the nine Jersey. Even though
Finley Christy did taptize very well. This is not untoward
(06:48):
because that's the pecking order right we are. We're not
going to lose too much because of course we've got
Raima and Reygard still wedding around two mills.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Yeah, and it's it's fairly good. It's a good problem
to now have having Finn lady. And you've got to remember,
I mean six weeks ago he wasn't really in the squad.
Was he in for Raiser?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
A call on me. I thought he had a great
game last week, fin Lay.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
That's probably a position I would have thought he would
have put him back out there again for that consistency.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
And the consistency I'm talking about is probably.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
More around the Lucy's his connection with the Lucies and
also a pivotal part with Bowden Barrett. But they obviously
feel that you know, Noah can have been been out
with injury for this w can come back in and
possibly provide something different.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And the difference is maybe.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Around the Ruck you know, maybe they're looking to try
and to take their rocky area a bit more, because
it's certainly a strength of Nola's.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Around that rocky area with Arico and your family bereavement
and his condolences obviously go to him, and to find
around that move from wing to center back out to
the wing again, where do you think he's going to
be comfortable looking into the future? Where's he going? Because
I know that Scott Robertson last week was a little yeah,
(08:00):
maybe not nonplus, but when questioned about Rico was like, well,
it's got a chance to prove us next week, hasn't he?
So where where's he going?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
It's a tough one, isn't it, because he's probably taking
a lot longer to get to where he was is
a winger this year, you know, having played center for
so long. But I still think the consistency that we're
wanting right now is within the midfield, and that's probably
why they're still sticking with Billy Proctor and Jody Barrett.
(08:31):
For Rico's case, he is, he was a world class winger.
I think it's just taking him a bit longer to
adjuster to that side of the game. Last week it
wasn't sort of going around sort of you know, his
his side, but certainly when he went looking for ball
he looked a little bit more dominant.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I think it is wing. I think the beauty of
what what we've got at.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
The moment is that he can equally you know, slot
into center and that's probably the cover that you get
and the reason why I say that it could have
an influence on where you know, they go six two
split on on the beach at some stage you know,
later in the season, but I definite think for now
it's you know, Billy Procter and Jordi Barren at the
starting to form a nice sort of cohesive combination in
(09:13):
the midfield.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Well, he gives people chances. I'll give that to Scott Robertson.
He gave Damian McKenzie plenty of time at ten last year.
Didn't quite work out, so be it. But he doesn't
throw the baby out with the bath water, and that's
got to be respected. And just touching on the ability
to run around that back three then to center back again,
you've experienced it yourself. How complex is that for a
rugby player to settle into a role that you've already
(09:37):
settled into one very different and then you're back into
another one again. Is that quite a lot of complexities
around that, Mills, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
There is, And particularly when you're talking about a role
that you play, it, I mean a lot of it.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
They say, hey, you're you're still on the wing, you're roaming,
but it's not it's the area that you have.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
You've got to find connection, you know, with the other
the other two guys a little bit different when you're
at center because it's from a physical.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Point of view. You know, you've got to you've got
to be a lot more.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Demanding on yourself because it's traffic coming down your channel
all the time.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
But you've also got to connect with you your second five.
You're not just defending on one side of the field.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
You've got to lock up and start organizing who has
to go and then she's split. So that's kind of why,
you know, I've got a bit of you got to
have a bit of patience with the movement out from
from center to wing for ECO, because they're two totally
different positions because you're covering a different sort of areas
and the back three of you is so much space
at the beck that you have to cover compared to
(10:35):
center when you're organizing, so it does take a.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Bit of time.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
I would have liked to say that this game here
would have been a great opportunity for you know, Rico
just really start getting you.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Know, that rhythm sort of back.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
But it's not to be unfortunate with the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
It's arisen And one last thing for you, Milsen, as always,
thanks so much for your time and expertise. Reuben Love
that finds himself on the bench in Wellington at home,
that's a good call.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Yeah, it's great, isn't it. I mean you spoke about
it before, Dus. I mean the opportunity to grow that
sort of depth.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
We know what he can do.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
He can cover both ten and fifteen and being you
know in Wellington as well. I mean he's an X player.
He's expected player, isn't he. So it's great to see
him on the bench. Hopefully he hits some he hits
some game time this weekend. But just another opportunity for
guys to get game time. And I like this because
you often.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Don't realize the pressures that Razor and the All Black
coaches are under.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
But to make changes like they have and to trust
and the guys that are coming into into it just
goes to show. They'd say, there's a real belief in
terms of you know what's coming up, what's coming in
terms about deep for the future.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
For more from sports talk, listen live to news talks
they'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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