The Silver Ferns coach saga continues, with little to no information being available around what led to Dame Noeline Taurua being stood down from the national side ahead of the Taini Jamison Trophy kicking off next weekend.
There is a thought that it stemmed from the 'old school' coaching of Noeline Taurua and that power has shifted and now sits with the athletes.
D'Arcy caught up with legendary All Blacks sevens and 'old school' coach Sir Gordon Teitjens to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Seven forty nine. This is sports Talk on news Talk
as sed B. And he's had a netball story around that.
Dame no Lean Toto carries on staggering about a lot
of it. They believe, well we believe is it's based
on the new school coaching v. The old school coaching,
and the power base within the side has been taken
(00:34):
away from the coach and putt in the hands of
the players. Maybe that has overcrrected somewhat and is sitting
way too much with the athletes. But we don't know
this for sure, but that's the sense I get and
Sir Gordon Titchens joins us now to talk about that, Gordon, welcome.
Is that the sense you get to in netball?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yes? What's the perception of an old school coach and
Darcy an old school coach?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
In my view is you wi the boss?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
You know you you're responsible for the program and everything
basically was you. And obviously the team was successful, you
got a pad on the pack that they weren't. You're
in the firing line and nothing. But also I was
still coach. Also a Knowling's case, very innovative, always looking
at new ideas, new things. I've been between her and
(01:22):
obviously her coaching staff, they had a O me see
Debbie Fuller.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
They had a good coaching staff in a sense that
you know.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
They worked really well together, had a great relationship.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And I'm just staggered ready by what's happened.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
And you know it's y Zell and neck will certainly
over the last twenty four hours. I'm just gobsmack when
I heard yesterday.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
To be honest, there's a couple of things here.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
One of them it's not just Dame no Lean, it's
Debbie Fullett and the rest. So plainly that block are
supporting her, not against the players. But they won't have
this again. We don't know this. I'm sure this is
just what I'm gleaning from this. So plainly there's support
for what Dame Nolean does, but Netbor New Zealand not
offering the same support. Because I believe this has been
(02:04):
going on for quite a few months now.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Gordon, Oh yeah, I can't really answer that, but I
think just to stand a coach down what just only
days before our Test series against South Africa, I mean
that's mind boggling really. I mean that must be unsettling
for the players, even the new coaching staff that are
coming in to take that particular role for that series.
I mean it's sad really because Nolin is such a
(02:27):
good coach and we need her, you know. I mean
we're not saying her other aren't other coaches coming through,
But she's a day mate.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
She's earned the right and my view to be the.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Boss, and she might have an old school approach, but
she is very innovative, looks to change things up. We
sometimes catch up now and then, perhaps at airports and
we talk a little bit. But she's a tremendous coach mate,
and I'm just staggered really, And I know Nettle's struggling
in other areas at the moment, but to lose our
best coach at a critical time moving into obviously a
(02:58):
Cup series against Australia as well, it's quite sad and
as I said, very unsettling for the players as.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Far as the player is being unsettled. And it looks
like the players initiated this because they weren't happy with
some parts of what they were doing. I've read a
term that psychologically unsafe it's a pretty big term. So
they're engaged, they're involved in this, and now they're a
week out from pretty much a tournament. What are your
expectations around what they'll actually put out on the cork
(03:26):
because you can't expect anything, can you know.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
So it's a tough one.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I mean, in my view, Darcy, to be honest, I
think these days I think the players have you know,
I suppose back in my day, you know, the coach
was the boss and we go back to that old
school saying. But you know, now we have to appoint
leadership groups, you know, and you go to your leaders
and ask them, do.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
You think we should do this? Do you think we
should do that? Do you think of the content of
this training is right?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And they have pops in some ways too much say
and what Noline's got, she's got a really good gut
feel about the game itself, about selection, the policies, the
protocols she puts in place. She's very very good mate,
and you have that feel. And when you've got that
gup feel, you need to thrive on that because she's
such a good coach and not all you know, it's
(04:13):
something that you can never coach and players. They've got
unbelievable skills, some of the stuff that we can't coach,
and Nolly's got that also from a coaching perspective, she's
very very good and going into a series in the
next few days, you know, quite sad, really.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Believe it's themed from a camp way back in January.
What surprises me here is the inability of Netball New
Zealand to actually organize this before now it'll be coming
up October. That the handling does not look good. It
doesn't really cast a great light on Netball New Zealand's
(04:49):
ability to deal with conflict like this.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
No, it's I mean, yeah, it hasn't come at a
very good time at all. And like I said, after
the Saturifican series, then you've got a Constellation cap series
with Australia and you know, to play Australia at any time.
Now he's sitting back, you know, rubbing their hands, knowing
there's a lot of turmoil over there with New Zealand
netball and I mean, I mean, I know Nolin always looks,
(05:15):
you know, is for the players, you know, and in
some cases, I know there's been a lot of criticism
out there that you know, she's wanting these to go
off play at a high level because.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
It's going to make our national longer.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
It's happening in all sports now, you know, and perhaps
there's a little bit of kickback from that. Perhaps I'm
not too sure, but I just feel and hope that
it gets back on tracked pretty quickly, and very very quickly,
because we certainly don't want to lose Nolin into the
sport network.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
No, And we mention the way things have changed over time.
You've experienced this yourself. Is there almost an overcorrection here
where too much power lies in the hands of the
Players Association and the players themselves because you need a
balance between both, don't you Gordon?
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Oh you yeah? And I know, like case you will
make seven seem now.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I probably would have been up before the Players Association
because I mean that's just the way that I coached,
because old school you were the boss. And unfortunately now
who does not only noted to she's got an answer
to high performance people within the union.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Is it okay if I do this? Is it okay
if I do that? That's not right?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
You know, when you've got to As I said, she's
got a good feel for the game. A lot of
HER's on gut instinct and she's, oh, she's so so
good that I'm obviously staggered the way that things have turned,
certainly in the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
And of course one last thing, Gord doesn't help. When
no one knows anything. They managed to keep a lid
on this, and you've got to admire the fact that
it has been kept on this for so long. But
the public are sitting there going, we don't know what's happening,
so they're drawing their own conclusion, which again is damaging.
Should we be given more information, do you think.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Well, yeah, because there's all the speculation and it just
keeps building and keeps building, and.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Yeah, what are the real facts? You know?
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I mean, I cannot believe that they're saying we want
a high performance environment. Does certainly have that with knowline
at the Helm, no question, And that's what's really challenging
to me.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to news talks
that'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Seven forty nine. This is sports Talk on news Talk
as sed B. And he's had a netball story around that.
Dame no Lean Toto carries on staggering about a lot
of it. They believe, well we believe is it's based
on the new school coaching v. The old school coaching,
and the power base within the side has been taken
(00:34):
away from the coach and putt in the hands of
the players. Maybe that has overcrrected somewhat and is sitting
way too much with the athletes. But we don't know
this for sure, but that's the sense I get and
Sir Gordon Titchens joins us now to talk about that, Gordon, welcome.
Is that the sense you get to in netball?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yes? What's the perception of an old school coach and
Darcy an old school coach?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
In my view is you wi the boss?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
You know you you're responsible for the program and everything
basically was you. And obviously the team was successful, you
got a pad on the pack that they weren't. You're
in the firing line and nothing. But also I was
still coach. Also a Knowling's case, very innovative, always looking
at new ideas, new things. I've been between her and
(01:22):
obviously her coaching staff, they had a O me see
Debbie Fuller.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
They had a good coaching staff in a sense that
you know.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
They worked really well together, had a great relationship.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And I'm just staggered ready by what's happened.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
And you know it's y Zell and neck will certainly
over the last twenty four hours. I'm just gobsmack when
I heard yesterday.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
To be honest, there's a couple of things here.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
One of them it's not just Dame no Lean, it's
Debbie Fullett and the rest. So plainly that block are
supporting her, not against the players. But they won't have
this again. We don't know this. I'm sure this is
just what I'm gleaning from this. So plainly there's support
for what Dame Nolean does, but Netbor New Zealand not
offering the same support. Because I believe this has been
(02:04):
going on for quite a few months now.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Gordon, Oh yeah, I can't really answer that, but I
think just to stand a coach down what just only
days before our Test series against South Africa, I mean
that's mind boggling really. I mean that must be unsettling
for the players, even the new coaching staff that are
coming in to take that particular role for that series.
I mean it's sad really because Nolin is such a
(02:27):
good coach and we need her, you know. I mean
we're not saying her other aren't other coaches coming through,
But she's a day mate.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
She's earned the right and my view to be the.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Boss, and she might have an old school approach, but
she is very innovative, looks to change things up. We
sometimes catch up now and then, perhaps at airports and
we talk a little bit. But she's a tremendous coach mate,
and I'm just staggered really, And I know Nettle's struggling
in other areas at the moment, but to lose our
best coach at a critical time moving into obviously a
(02:58):
Cup series against Australia as well, it's quite sad and
as I said, very unsettling for the players as.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Far as the player is being unsettled. And it looks
like the players initiated this because they weren't happy with
some parts of what they were doing. I've read a
term that psychologically unsafe it's a pretty big term. So
they're engaged, they're involved in this, and now they're a
week out from pretty much a tournament. What are your
expectations around what they'll actually put out on the cork
(03:26):
because you can't expect anything, can you know.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
So it's a tough one.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I mean, in my view, Darcy, to be honest, I
think these days I think the players have you know,
I suppose back in my day, you know, the coach
was the boss and we go back to that old
school saying. But you know, now we have to appoint
leadership groups, you know, and you go to your leaders
and ask them, do.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
You think we should do this? Do you think we
should do that? Do you think of the content of
this training is right?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And they have pops in some ways too much say
and what Noline's got, she's got a really good gut
feel about the game itself, about selection, the policies, the
protocols she puts in place. She's very very good mate,
and you have that feel. And when you've got that
gup feel, you need to thrive on that because she's
such a good coach and not all you know, it's
(04:13):
something that you can never coach and players. They've got
unbelievable skills, some of the stuff that we can't coach,
and Nolly's got that also from a coaching perspective, she's
very very good and going into a series in the
next few days, you know, quite sad, really.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Believe it's themed from a camp way back in January.
What surprises me here is the inability of Netball New
Zealand to actually organize this before now it'll be coming
up October. That the handling does not look good. It
doesn't really cast a great light on Netball New Zealand's
(04:49):
ability to deal with conflict like this.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
No, it's I mean, yeah, it hasn't come at a
very good time at all. And like I said, after
the Saturifican series, then you've got a Constellation cap series
with Australia and you know, to play Australia at any time.
Now he's sitting back, you know, rubbing their hands, knowing
there's a lot of turmoil over there with New Zealand
netball and I mean, I mean, I know Nolin always looks,
(05:15):
you know, is for the players, you know, and in
some cases, I know there's been a lot of criticism
out there that you know, she's wanting these to go
off play at a high level because.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
It's going to make our national longer.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
It's happening in all sports now, you know, and perhaps
there's a little bit of kickback from that. Perhaps I'm
not too sure, but I just feel and hope that
it gets back on tracked pretty quickly, and very very quickly,
because we certainly don't want to lose Nolin into the
sport network.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
No, And we mention the way things have changed over time.
You've experienced this yourself. Is there almost an overcorrection here
where too much power lies in the hands of the
Players Association and the players themselves because you need a
balance between both, don't you Gordon?
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Oh you yeah? And I know, like case you will
make seven seem now.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I probably would have been up before the Players Association
because I mean that's just the way that I coached,
because old school you were the boss. And unfortunately now
who does not only noted to she's got an answer
to high performance people within the union.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Is it okay if I do this? Is it okay
if I do that? That's not right?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
You know, when you've got to As I said, she's
got a good feel for the game. A lot of
HER's on gut instinct and she's, oh, she's so so
good that I'm obviously staggered the way that things have turned,
certainly in the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
And of course one last thing, Gord doesn't help. When
no one knows anything. They managed to keep a lid
on this, and you've got to admire the fact that
it has been kept on this for so long. But
the public are sitting there going, we don't know what's happening,
so they're drawing their own conclusion, which again is damaging.
Should we be given more information, do you think.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Well, yeah, because there's all the speculation and it just
keeps building and keeps building, and.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Yeah, what are the real facts? You know?
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I mean, I cannot believe that they're saying we want
a high performance environment. Does certainly have that with knowline
at the Helm, no question, And that's what's really challenging
to me.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to news talks
that'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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