September 22, 2025 • 9 mins
Liam Lawson doesn't know if his fifth place effort in Azerbaijan will help him retain a spot in Formula One beyond this season.
The career best result - on the back of a stellar third in qualifying - comes as reports swirl about the three unconfirmed Red Bull seats for next year.
Toyota Racing series founder Barrie Thomlinson joined Piney to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancie Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Liam Lawson might not have been able to finish on
the podium at the Azerbaijean Grand Prix, but the key
we drove a great race to finish fifth and claim
another career best result in Formula One, having qualified third
on Saturday. The pace disadvantage of Liam Lawson's racing balls
car ultimately told over the course of fifty one laps
(00:33):
in Baku, as both Mercedes drivers were able to get
past him, but this was still, without question his best
performance in Formula One, as Liam Lawson was able to
defend that fifth placing from a host of faster cars.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
To have a p five is big for us, specially
in the championship right now. So yeah, massive thanks to
the team.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
We've had a good Cole weekends. Happy to come home
with some points.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's the best Formula One result by a Kiwi driver
since Chris Aimon finished fifth as well at the nineteen
seventy six Spanish Grand Prix. Let's bring in founder of
the Toyota Racing Sea Aies which many of our top drivers,
including Liam Lawson, raced in and astute motorsport analyst Bowrye Tomlinson, Bowie,
you actually knew the late Chris Aimon pretty well have
(01:18):
had a smile on his face watching this, no doubt.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yeah, high poney, Yes, yeah, no, Chris would be absolutely
wrapped the obviously one of New Zealand's most acclaimed Formula
One drivers back in the in the days, and yeah,
he'd be very very happy to witness that result for Limb.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
What imprecid you most about Liam's drive at Baku.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Actually over the last two or three four Grand Prix's
this tenacity really, you know, he's proved that he can
take pressure on track, which you know he's had a
Loonzo on his tail for many laps in Austria and
now the result this weekend again just some you know,
top quality drivers in cars, superior cars to you know,
(02:04):
the Racing Bulls. You'd have to say the Racing Bulls
car is proving to be a very very handy piece
of gear. But no, look, he's just he's he can
take that pressure and actually form of ones all about pressure.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
What is the strategy? What is his strategy? When he's there,
he's holding onto fifth place, he's got Sonoda breathing down
his neck. Norris is there, Hamilton is there? Leclair is there?
What is the strategy in situations like that when he's
got a defend fifth place for quite a significant length
of time.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, look he you know obviously, yes, it was quite
a few laps that he had to defend, and you know,
really he he was eyes forward more than eyes in
the rear vision Murray, you could tell, you know, with
the lines he was using. He was still you know,
he wasn't trying to defend the corners. I mean the
odd time he had to defend when the DRS was
on him with the cars behind, but he was very
(02:58):
much eyes forward, driving good lines and you know, focusing
on his breaking and actually, you know, the traction out
of corners I think you know, it was pretty telling.
Actually the racing Bulls car with Liam at the wheel,
the traction out of all those lower corners was actually outstanding,
and you probably noted that, you know, the last couple
(03:19):
of corners, particularly the last one on to the big
long straightaway, which was obviously where VRS came into action.
His traction and the driver ability out of that corner
was very very good, even with the ties that were
going off. You know, it was quite impressive.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Is that out driving Isaac had you at the moment,
I know the finishing positions today would say yes. But
in general terms, Barry, do you think he's at least
the equal of not better than Isaac Hadjar at the moment?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Very subjective. Look, honestly, I think both drivers are superb
and you know it's got to be recognized that. You know,
they talk about Isaac being in a rookie and yes
he is, but so is Liam. I mean Liam's an
absolute rookie too, and I think the pair of them,
they just what they're doing is pushing, pushing each other,
which is everything you need in from long two drivers
(04:07):
pushing each other to the very very best. And you
know you can see that with the results. I mean,
Isaac is getting great results and now Liam has really
stepped up, and you know he's doing a great job.
So look, it's hard to make comparisons, and I think
it's wrong to make comparisons. The team have all the
data in the world that they can, they can look
at those those that sort of information, but at the moment,
(04:28):
you know, as an outsider standing on the side, I think,
you know, all we can say is that there are
two very very strong young drivers that are you know,
they're looking like both of them will have careers in
Formula One.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Obviously you never like to lose great position once you
get to the chicken flag. But was that much Liam
could have done differently to hold off the two Mercedes
or not?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
No, Look, you know, those sort of things get in
you can reflect back on it. You know, could he
have gone longer on that first set of tires? And
you know, obviously Antonelli was was you know, made an
earlier pit stop. You know, racing bulls decided that they'd
have to cover off Antonelli, and that's what I guess.
Liam came in that little bit earlier. You know, in hindsight,
(05:10):
maybe he could have gone longer on that first set
of ties, which would have given a better track position.
But you know, honestly, you know, to finish fifth as
an outstanding result. And I think, you know, if a
truth be known, I mean they probably we were thinking, well,
you know, top seven, you know, would have been an
excellent result, and I think you know, to finish fifth
(05:31):
was just outstanding. Actually, Pliny.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
It seems to still be a bit of chat around
Liam's future with the Red Bull Racing bulls stable. Even
when he was battling with Sonoda, there was you know,
periods of commentary where they were talking about the two
of them battling it out for perhaps their Formula one futures.
I mean, is that real? And if it is, how
how important would this morning have been?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Well? Look, the result this morning was very important. You know,
I've always said to the drive many drivers that I've
worked with over many years, is that you know, it's
about It's just like being in the stock market being
a ration driver. You know, if you can, if you
can get those results, you increase the stock price. And
you know, this morning Liam's stock price got a fair
bit stronger. And you know, I think this is the
(06:15):
This is the thing that Red Bull when we look
at look that they always put pressure on the young drivers,
you know, to perform, and they will never ever, I guess,
confirm the drivers early. They'll they'll just make them put
them under pressure, because that's what it's for. The one
is all about. And you know to say, you know,
you know Liam Sonoda, They're all they're all you know,
(06:37):
under review and you know Liam's just got to keep
eyes forward keep moving forward, keep getting results, and you know,
I think his stock price will continue to grow.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Indeed, we know Verstappen is going to be there next year.
What's your best guess, Berry? Well, is there a scenario
under which Isaac Hadja takes the other red ball seat?
What's the story with Sonoda? Is Liam most likely to
be in the racing ball again? Or is it just
too early to tell? Are we just spit balling here?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, look, I think it's too early to tell. But
you know, honestly, you know, so if Liam was to
prove in the next I think what I ate grand
Prix to go if he came out and you know,
got good result after good result. Look, you know, there's
no telling. I mean, it may well be that, you know,
Liam steps back into the red ball, never discount that,
But right now I think, you know, it's about getting
(07:25):
there a result, just continuing to get good results and
doing solid job, and then after that he'll be, you know,
he'll be the thing will be reviewed and you know,
his contract will be signed sooner than later if his
results continue to be strong.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And I guess there's no surprise that he's showing improvement
in a number of areas, not just in his finishing positions,
but in his consistency and picking up points and just
the way he drives the car. It does actually take
a while to get used to these cars, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah? Absolutely, And you know I think you know, the
thing that we don't see standing on the sidelines is
just what's going on in side the car. You know
that the team, you know that they would have talked
him through that race this morning. You know, the you
know that he that he had made sure he had
enough battery pack to be able to defend. All of
(08:14):
that information is coming on the steering wheel, is coming
from the team, and you know, it's it's a lot
going on. And again I think you know what Liam
did this morning, and he did the same in Austria
with Alonso on the back of him. You know, it
was just take that pressure and actually just eyes forward
and get that result at the end of the race.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeap, very very impressive. Indeed, So on to Singapore in
a couple of weeks, Barry, Always appreciate your analysis. Thanks
for taking the time tonight.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, and just don't forget you know, Singapore. Liam was there,
you know, and you know, was very very good last year,
so I think, you know, we can really look forward
to that Grand Prix pin it.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, look forward to it, indeed, Barry, thanks indeed for
your time, Barry Tomlinson there. Toyota Racing Series founder Liam
used to race in that series and a very astute
analyst of motor racing, as you can hear from from
our chat.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it B from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancie Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Liam Lawson might not have been able to finish on
the podium at the Azerbaijean Grand Prix, but the key
we drove a great race to finish fifth and claim
another career best result in Formula One, having qualified third
on Saturday. The pace disadvantage of Liam Lawson's racing balls
car ultimately told over the course of fifty one laps
(00:33):
in Baku, as both Mercedes drivers were able to get
past him, but this was still, without question his best
performance in Formula One, as Liam Lawson was able to
defend that fifth placing from a host of faster cars.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
To have a p five is big for us, specially
in the championship right now. So yeah, massive thanks to
the team.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
We've had a good Cole weekends. Happy to come home
with some points.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's the best Formula One result by a Kiwi driver
since Chris Aimon finished fifth as well at the nineteen
seventy six Spanish Grand Prix. Let's bring in founder of
the Toyota Racing Sea Aies which many of our top drivers,
including Liam Lawson, raced in and astute motorsport analyst Bowrye Tomlinson, Bowie,
you actually knew the late Chris Aimon pretty well have
(01:18):
had a smile on his face watching this, no doubt.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yeah, high poney, Yes, yeah, no, Chris would be absolutely
wrapped the obviously one of New Zealand's most acclaimed Formula
One drivers back in the in the days, and yeah,
he'd be very very happy to witness that result for Limb.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
What imprecid you most about Liam's drive at Baku.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Actually over the last two or three four Grand Prix's
this tenacity really, you know, he's proved that he can
take pressure on track, which you know he's had a
Loonzo on his tail for many laps in Austria and
now the result this weekend again just some you know,
top quality drivers in cars, superior cars to you know,
(02:04):
the Racing Bulls. You'd have to say the Racing Bulls
car is proving to be a very very handy piece
of gear. But no, look, he's just he's he can
take that pressure and actually form of ones all about pressure.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
What is the strategy? What is his strategy? When he's there,
he's holding onto fifth place, he's got Sonoda breathing down
his neck. Norris is there, Hamilton is there? Leclair is there?
What is the strategy in situations like that when he's
got a defend fifth place for quite a significant length
of time.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, look he you know obviously, yes, it was quite
a few laps that he had to defend, and you know,
really he he was eyes forward more than eyes in
the rear vision Murray, you could tell, you know, with
the lines he was using. He was still you know,
he wasn't trying to defend the corners. I mean the
odd time he had to defend when the DRS was
on him with the cars behind, but he was very
(02:58):
much eyes forward, driving good lines and you know, focusing
on his breaking and actually, you know, the traction out
of corners I think you know, it was pretty telling.
Actually the racing Bulls car with Liam at the wheel,
the traction out of all those lower corners was actually outstanding,
and you probably noted that, you know, the last couple
(03:19):
of corners, particularly the last one on to the big
long straightaway, which was obviously where VRS came into action.
His traction and the driver ability out of that corner
was very very good, even with the ties that were
going off. You know, it was quite impressive.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Is that out driving Isaac had you at the moment,
I know the finishing positions today would say yes. But
in general terms, Barry, do you think he's at least
the equal of not better than Isaac Hadjar at the moment?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Very subjective. Look, honestly, I think both drivers are superb
and you know it's got to be recognized that. You know,
they talk about Isaac being in a rookie and yes
he is, but so is Liam. I mean Liam's an
absolute rookie too, and I think the pair of them,
they just what they're doing is pushing, pushing each other,
which is everything you need in from long two drivers
(04:07):
pushing each other to the very very best. And you
know you can see that with the results. I mean,
Isaac is getting great results and now Liam has really
stepped up, and you know he's doing a great job.
So look, it's hard to make comparisons, and I think
it's wrong to make comparisons. The team have all the
data in the world that they can, they can look
at those those that sort of information, but at the moment,
(04:28):
you know, as an outsider standing on the side, I think,
you know, all we can say is that there are
two very very strong young drivers that are you know,
they're looking like both of them will have careers in
Formula One.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Obviously you never like to lose great position once you
get to the chicken flag. But was that much Liam
could have done differently to hold off the two Mercedes
or not?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
No, Look, you know, those sort of things get in
you can reflect back on it. You know, could he
have gone longer on that first set of tires? And
you know, obviously Antonelli was was you know, made an
earlier pit stop. You know, racing bulls decided that they'd
have to cover off Antonelli, and that's what I guess.
Liam came in that little bit earlier. You know, in hindsight,
(05:10):
maybe he could have gone longer on that first set
of ties, which would have given a better track position.
But you know, honestly, you know, to finish fifth as
an outstanding result. And I think, you know, if a
truth be known, I mean they probably we were thinking, well,
you know, top seven, you know, would have been an
excellent result, and I think you know, to finish fifth
(05:31):
was just outstanding. Actually, Pliny.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
It seems to still be a bit of chat around
Liam's future with the Red Bull Racing bulls stable. Even
when he was battling with Sonoda, there was you know,
periods of commentary where they were talking about the two
of them battling it out for perhaps their Formula one futures.
I mean, is that real? And if it is, how
how important would this morning have been?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Well? Look, the result this morning was very important. You know,
I've always said to the drive many drivers that I've
worked with over many years, is that you know, it's
about It's just like being in the stock market being
a ration driver. You know, if you can, if you
can get those results, you increase the stock price. And
you know, this morning Liam's stock price got a fair
bit stronger. And you know, I think this is the
(06:15):
This is the thing that Red Bull when we look
at look that they always put pressure on the young drivers,
you know, to perform, and they will never ever, I guess,
confirm the drivers early. They'll they'll just make them put
them under pressure, because that's what it's for. The one
is all about. And you know to say, you know,
you know Liam Sonoda, They're all they're all you know,
(06:37):
under review and you know Liam's just got to keep
eyes forward keep moving forward, keep getting results, and you know,
I think his stock price will continue to grow.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Indeed, we know Verstappen is going to be there next year.
What's your best guess, Berry? Well, is there a scenario
under which Isaac Hadja takes the other red ball seat?
What's the story with Sonoda? Is Liam most likely to
be in the racing ball again? Or is it just
too early to tell? Are we just spit balling here?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, look, I think it's too early to tell. But
you know, honestly, you know, so if Liam was to
prove in the next I think what I ate grand
Prix to go if he came out and you know,
got good result after good result. Look, you know, there's
no telling. I mean, it may well be that, you know,
Liam steps back into the red ball, never discount that,
But right now I think, you know, it's about getting
(07:25):
there a result, just continuing to get good results and
doing solid job, and then after that he'll be, you know,
he'll be the thing will be reviewed and you know,
his contract will be signed sooner than later if his
results continue to be strong.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And I guess there's no surprise that he's showing improvement
in a number of areas, not just in his finishing positions,
but in his consistency and picking up points and just
the way he drives the car. It does actually take
a while to get used to these cars, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah? Absolutely, And you know I think you know, the
thing that we don't see standing on the sidelines is
just what's going on in side the car. You know
that the team, you know that they would have talked
him through that race this morning. You know, the you
know that he that he had made sure he had
enough battery pack to be able to defend. All of
(08:14):
that information is coming on the steering wheel, is coming
from the team, and you know, it's it's a lot
going on. And again I think you know what Liam
did this morning, and he did the same in Austria
with Alonso on the back of him. You know, it
was just take that pressure and actually just eyes forward
and get that result at the end of the race.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeap, very very impressive. Indeed, So on to Singapore in
a couple of weeks, Barry, Always appreciate your analysis. Thanks
for taking the time tonight.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, and just don't forget you know, Singapore. Liam was there,
you know, and you know, was very very good last year,
so I think, you know, we can really look forward
to that Grand Prix pin it.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, look forward to it, indeed, Barry, thanks indeed for
your time, Barry Tomlinson there. Toyota Racing Series founder Liam
used to race in that series and a very astute
analyst of motor racing, as you can hear from from
our chat.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks
it B from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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