The next All Blacks test in the Grand Slam tour is set to take place this weekend - and this time, the Kiwis are going up against Scotland.
The Scots will be looking to break the drought, since their first test match in 1905 and in 32 total test matches, they have never beaten the All Blacks.
Former Scotland assistant coach Jason O'Halloran joined D'Arcy to discuss.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It's week two of the Grand Slam Tour. Big challenge
for the All Blacks. One of the bigger challenges. Actually
there's three challenges, isn't there? And then there's Wales. I
may end up regretting saying that we will see so
Murray Field in the early hours of Sunday morning, ten
past four. I believe things get underway and we'll have
(00:33):
full coverage of that here here at Newstalk zb. I
Smith is a man on the mic Freda wear Rugby.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
You got to like that, eh. There he'll be.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
He'll be looking over and commenting on the Scottish who
really want to break a drought and it's huge. They
played their first Test match back in nineteen oint five
against the All Blacks. Thirty two matches they've never won.
So is this a Scottish team that can actually do it?
Can they? Will? They? Jason o'haler and joins us now
(01:04):
you might better shed some light on this question. Former
All Black Hurricane Center, assistant coach of Scotland also assistant
coach of the Blues right now as well, it is
with us now to discuss the strengths and the weaknesses
of the Scottish side and some talking points on squad
selection ahead of the two sides being named in just
(01:25):
under two hours time is with us now, Jason.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
How are you doing mate? All right?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, doing good? Well, you know a fair bit about
what happens in Scottish rugby. You've been over there assisting
in the national team with you where you now, boss,
and the Blues are vern Cotter. There's been a lot
made of the strength of this Scottish side. Is it
all bluster or do people actually have a point that
they might be troublesome for the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Well, I think that the depth and the strength of
the Scottish team lies in the back line. I think
you've got fun Russell at first. That is one of
the best first five ranks in the world. You've got
a lot of outside him is an outstanding player.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
He's started the.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
First lines Australia before being injured. And then you've got
John vander meurv and Darcy Graham and Black King on
the back three who average fifty tests each. That's a
hell of a good back line. The boy White at
halfback played on the Lines tour as well. The one
Glarian mission for them, unfortunately is Hugh Jones, who's done
Achilles because that partnership with Plato Toy Polato has been
(02:27):
an outstanding one. So they'll miss Hugh Jones massively. But
that's where the strength of the Scottish side is. The
key thing for them will be can they get parody,
and particularly at scrum time because their depth that prop
is very, very very porous and if Xander Ferguson doesn't
come through it's a bit under a bit of an
injury cloud, then particularly tight head, they could be really exposed.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I'm expecting the Albots.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
To get on top of scrum time, particularly the last
twenty minutes when the reserve front rowers come on.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I think the all backs can ready do a number
on the Scottish.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Then you mentioned death Jason and o'haleren, So if there
are some little holes and plenty that are up front,
where's the depth of the pack.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Then the depth of the pack I believe for Scotland
is the middle row of Cummings and Grant Girl. Chris
has experienced Scott Cummings went on the Lions tour. He's
a great young player, good athlete as well, carry as well,
and they're both excellent defensive lightout, especially Girlko who's now
in a senior Statesman. There's a good he's a big man.
He'll compete at lineout time. They've got a really good
(03:27):
lineout coach there, John Dalzel, and they'll already compete this.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I think they'll be okay line out. They'll win their
own board. They're quite innovative around the ball.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
They're over ball two in terms of inserting lifters and
going to groundball balls and those sorts of things, so
they'll ask questions at lnout time.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I just think that.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
They're scrum is going to be a real Chilly's hell
for them, and if they can't get dominance and the scrum,
that's going to be a key avenue for the All
BLACKSTA access again through penalties and then go to lineouts
and launch their attack from good positions in terms of territoriess,
I think that the scrum will be the key to this.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Game, presuming that Scott Robinson and his crew know exactly
that and will that be reflected do you think think
in team selection? Am I interested in your thought around
what they need to provide, how they provide it with
the team they pick, and how much do they consider
that they've got England a week down the track. There's
a lot of things to throw in the air and juggle, right.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Yeah, I think it's quite simple though, Darcy. I think
you've got to go all guns blazing in these first
three tests. They are the three key ones. I've got
Island under the belt, Curtisey of an excellent last twenty minutes.
Now Scotland, who people are talking up. But I do
think one other little thing was Scotland a preparation of
a USA team that was no better than the club
(04:41):
team which they be eighty five dollars not a great
dress rehearsal for the All Blacks, so that's an issue too.
I think the All Blacks will definitely take them out
scrum time after some bibles against the spring box there
and the year that scrumb is looking good now and
fletching or we know it, the tight head problem particulars
outstanding scrummager degree. On the other side, we'll do the
job particularly well and Cody tar is excellent between them
(05:03):
and off the bench. You know, if you've got tomarti
Williams tossing and Takeyaho come off the bench against a
potentially pretty weak Scotland a second front row. I think
that's when it could get a little bit ugly for
the Scottish.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
So you see the same kind of set up in
the front row, same guy's coming off the bench in
the same guys.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Starting absolutely and I would imagine that they'll go with
Lord and Holland again as well. I think the backline
might be the one air of a buddy Barrett took
a few knots. Whether they give Demach a start there
that will perhaps be the interesting thing. And then if
they do that, do they put Body on the bench
or do they have Reuben Loves covering first ime?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Mate?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
And that's one of the issues for them only having
taken two out and out Ten's is body getting a
bit inged up against Ireland?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Does he need a rest?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
But if you just go with the philosophy that we're
going to put our our best team out there for
these three tests and then they also ran sort of
boys get a run against Wales and I think Body
will be starting on the tenders.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I think one thing that Scott Robinson's proven to a
sword and you feel free to ai with me because
you played the game at the highest level, you coach
the game at the highest level as well. Is that
he's given guys lots of chances in various roles, giving
them plenty of time, and then said, look, thanks, but
we're moving to the next plane. You look at Damie McKenzie,
you look at Billy Proctor, but he's slowly but surely
(06:22):
over these first couple of years shaping what looks like
to be his dominant twenty three slash fifteen without taking
injuries into account, because that's always going to be there.
Do you think he's slowly narrowing it down he's actually
starting to understand what his best team looks like and
what they have to do.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah, but sometimes fake can have a hand on that
as well.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Do so.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I think with Geordie going off for the week, and that.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Necessitated Lester fu movie to thirteen and pushing Quinsy pirate,
and then we saw what Lester did almost immediately, committing defenders,
getting offloads away and then creating brakes with the All Blacks,
and I think, you know, he's probably the potential starter
at thirteen from now and off the back of that
performance just because of the point of difference he gives
them around the ball carry, you know. So yeah, I
(07:09):
do agree to an extent that he has mixed the
match a bit and he's probably coming closer to what
is best twenty three looks like.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
But again, as per.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Previous head coaches, you know, I think Jordi Barrett's start
at twelve came off the back of some necessity with
injuries as well back in the day under Foster. So yeah,
sometimes injuries plays a part in selection. But I think
I'm excited by this all black back line. I know,
tradishing with all black teams, we tend to go for
a ball player in the midfield with the power players,
like a older little Frank Bunstup thing and on our
(07:42):
major Tanna Amna type thing. But this is two power runners.
So it'll be interesting to see how that goes and
what sort of pressure that puts on the first five
to be a key distributor.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So I'm interested to see how that evolves.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
The team selection. And it's not coming out till nine tonight.
It will come out and we can pick through it well.
The philosophy behind the selection of the team taken to
account the op position, and from what you've said, Jason,
that philosophy and the theories behind what they're doing, it's
going to be very much we're going to keep the
(08:15):
ball up front and we're going to crunch you in
the middle, and then we'll let it go later on.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Is that fair? Is it too simple? No?
Speaker 4 (08:22):
I think I think one thing I would like to
see a bit more from the All Blacks is a
bit more balance in their game. You find for All
Blacks they almost going periods of twenty minutes. So last
week everything was wide wide initially and then in the
second half we went back to more of a power
game and you saw a bit more influenced from Artisavera
those types of players. I would like an ability to
play that power game and then when we collect the opposition,
(08:44):
didn go to the width, but it seems like we
get stuck in a run of just east to west
for twenty minutes and then twenty minutes of up the
guards without a combination of the two. So I think
that's what they'll be looking to develop within their game.
I think they need to stick with Simon Parker. I
think they need that extra height in the lner and
particularly against England who have got a bunch of giants
and maritoj leading the defensive laner who's probably one of
(09:06):
the defense best defensive lineout fours in the world. If
you go in there with because there is a potential
to play Addie Severe Wallace a TDI whom I'm missing
out another short and backgrower creepy perhaps, or you know,
Peter Larky is not tall either, so if you were
like I know and Ardie and Wallace, that's just too
(09:28):
short for me against the better international size and particularly England,
I think you need to have a big body like
Simon Parker there to have three genuine options around the
line out. So I think they'll persist with Simon Parker,
and I really do like Peter Larky, I think as
an outstanding playing and Artie is Artie you wouldn't for
anybody in the world. So I would like to see
them continue with that group, and particularly in the absence
(09:49):
of tabu Via through injury, who would have been the
other option at six. But I think they should potentially
persist without in the future. I think there's some there's
some genuine ability there for Tubu Vai and the way
that Holland's playing. In particular, he's going to quickly become
the first lot they've got on the on the team sheet,
i'd imagine.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And last, but certainly not least did Jason o'hallerin how
much are the scott Is going to rely on passion?
It's ae hundred years since I first played Murrayfield, so
this is this is very emotional. How far can that
carry them?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Do you think?
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Well, if they have the passion, with Finn Russell's genius
on top of it and some front football from quick Rucks,
then they can cause the All Blacks problems. But I
think the All backs will play some rugby initially, like
if they get caught out playing that style of rugby,
make eras and then Scotland get ahold of the ball
and turn some turnovers white to John van der Merger,
(10:45):
or Fin Russell exposes them with cross kicks or I
thought there was a couple of dead cepportunities rather than
last week, but Crowley just butchered the kicks and I
think Finn will be aware of that from the analysis.
If that happens, then the game could open up a
bit and we could get ourselves in a bit of trouble,
but I think then that'll just lead us to the
promised languages, back to the set piece, more lighter and
(11:06):
scrump for penalties, So I think the Allbacks will always
have that escape hatch on the scape due to the
lack of depth and prompt for Scotland.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to news Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It's week two of the Grand Slam Tour. Big challenge
for the All Blacks. One of the bigger challenges. Actually
there's three challenges, isn't there? And then there's Wales. I
may end up regretting saying that we will see so
Murray Field in the early hours of Sunday morning, ten
past four. I believe things get underway and we'll have
(00:33):
full coverage of that here here at Newstalk zb. I
Smith is a man on the mic Freda wear Rugby.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
You got to like that, eh. There he'll be.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
He'll be looking over and commenting on the Scottish who
really want to break a drought and it's huge. They
played their first Test match back in nineteen oint five
against the All Blacks. Thirty two matches they've never won.
So is this a Scottish team that can actually do it?
Can they? Will? They? Jason o'haler and joins us now
(01:04):
you might better shed some light on this question. Former
All Black Hurricane Center, assistant coach of Scotland also assistant
coach of the Blues right now as well, it is
with us now to discuss the strengths and the weaknesses
of the Scottish side and some talking points on squad
selection ahead of the two sides being named in just
(01:25):
under two hours time is with us now, Jason.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
How are you doing mate? All right?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, doing good? Well, you know a fair bit about
what happens in Scottish rugby. You've been over there assisting
in the national team with you where you now, boss,
and the Blues are vern Cotter. There's been a lot
made of the strength of this Scottish side. Is it
all bluster or do people actually have a point that
they might be troublesome for the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Well, I think that the depth and the strength of
the Scottish team lies in the back line. I think
you've got fun Russell at first. That is one of
the best first five ranks in the world. You've got
a lot of outside him is an outstanding player.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
He's started the.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
First lines Australia before being injured. And then you've got
John vander meurv and Darcy Graham and Black King on
the back three who average fifty tests each. That's a
hell of a good back line. The boy White at
halfback played on the Lines tour as well. The one
Glarian mission for them, unfortunately is Hugh Jones, who's done
Achilles because that partnership with Plato Toy Polato has been
(02:27):
an outstanding one. So they'll miss Hugh Jones massively. But
that's where the strength of the Scottish side is. The
key thing for them will be can they get parody,
and particularly at scrum time because their depth that prop
is very, very very porous and if Xander Ferguson doesn't
come through it's a bit under a bit of an
injury cloud, then particularly tight head, they could be really exposed.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I'm expecting the Albots.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
To get on top of scrum time, particularly the last
twenty minutes when the reserve front rowers come on.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I think the all backs can ready do a number
on the Scottish.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Then you mentioned death Jason and o'haleren, So if there
are some little holes and plenty that are up front,
where's the depth of the pack.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Then the depth of the pack I believe for Scotland
is the middle row of Cummings and Grant Girl. Chris
has experienced Scott Cummings went on the Lions tour. He's
a great young player, good athlete as well, carry as well,
and they're both excellent defensive lightout, especially Girlko who's now
in a senior Statesman. There's a good he's a big man.
He'll compete at lineout time. They've got a really good
(03:27):
lineout coach there, John Dalzel, and they'll already compete this.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I think they'll be okay line out. They'll win their
own board. They're quite innovative around the ball.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
They're over ball two in terms of inserting lifters and
going to groundball balls and those sorts of things, so
they'll ask questions at lnout time.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I just think that.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
They're scrum is going to be a real Chilly's hell
for them, and if they can't get dominance and the scrum,
that's going to be a key avenue for the All
BLACKSTA access again through penalties and then go to lineouts
and launch their attack from good positions in terms of territoriess,
I think that the scrum will be the key to this.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Game, presuming that Scott Robinson and his crew know exactly
that and will that be reflected do you think think
in team selection? Am I interested in your thought around
what they need to provide, how they provide it with
the team they pick, and how much do they consider
that they've got England a week down the track. There's
a lot of things to throw in the air and juggle, right.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Yeah, I think it's quite simple though, Darcy. I think
you've got to go all guns blazing in these first
three tests. They are the three key ones. I've got
Island under the belt, Curtisey of an excellent last twenty minutes.
Now Scotland, who people are talking up. But I do
think one other little thing was Scotland a preparation of
a USA team that was no better than the club
(04:41):
team which they be eighty five dollars not a great
dress rehearsal for the All Blacks, so that's an issue too.
I think the All Blacks will definitely take them out
scrum time after some bibles against the spring box there
and the year that scrumb is looking good now and
fletching or we know it, the tight head problem particulars
outstanding scrummager degree. On the other side, we'll do the
job particularly well and Cody tar is excellent between them
(05:03):
and off the bench. You know, if you've got tomarti
Williams tossing and Takeyaho come off the bench against a
potentially pretty weak Scotland a second front row. I think
that's when it could get a little bit ugly for
the Scottish.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
So you see the same kind of set up in
the front row, same guy's coming off the bench in
the same guys.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Starting absolutely and I would imagine that they'll go with
Lord and Holland again as well. I think the backline
might be the one air of a buddy Barrett took
a few knots. Whether they give Demach a start there
that will perhaps be the interesting thing. And then if
they do that, do they put Body on the bench
or do they have Reuben Loves covering first ime?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Mate?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
And that's one of the issues for them only having
taken two out and out Ten's is body getting a
bit inged up against Ireland?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Does he need a rest?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
But if you just go with the philosophy that we're
going to put our our best team out there for
these three tests and then they also ran sort of
boys get a run against Wales and I think Body
will be starting on the tenders.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I think one thing that Scott Robinson's proven to a
sword and you feel free to ai with me because
you played the game at the highest level, you coach
the game at the highest level as well. Is that
he's given guys lots of chances in various roles, giving
them plenty of time, and then said, look, thanks, but
we're moving to the next plane. You look at Damie McKenzie,
you look at Billy Proctor, but he's slowly but surely
(06:22):
over these first couple of years shaping what looks like
to be his dominant twenty three slash fifteen without taking
injuries into account, because that's always going to be there.
Do you think he's slowly narrowing it down he's actually
starting to understand what his best team looks like and
what they have to do.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah, but sometimes fake can have a hand on that
as well.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Do so.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I think with Geordie going off for the week, and that.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Necessitated Lester fu movie to thirteen and pushing Quinsy pirate,
and then we saw what Lester did almost immediately, committing defenders,
getting offloads away and then creating brakes with the All Blacks,
and I think, you know, he's probably the potential starter
at thirteen from now and off the back of that
performance just because of the point of difference he gives
them around the ball carry, you know. So yeah, I
(07:09):
do agree to an extent that he has mixed the
match a bit and he's probably coming closer to what
is best twenty three looks like.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
But again, as per.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Previous head coaches, you know, I think Jordi Barrett's start
at twelve came off the back of some necessity with
injuries as well back in the day under Foster. So yeah,
sometimes injuries plays a part in selection. But I think
I'm excited by this all black back line. I know,
tradishing with all black teams, we tend to go for
a ball player in the midfield with the power players,
like a older little Frank Bunstup thing and on our
(07:42):
major Tanna Amna type thing. But this is two power runners.
So it'll be interesting to see how that goes and
what sort of pressure that puts on the first five
to be a key distributor.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So I'm interested to see how that evolves.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
The team selection. And it's not coming out till nine tonight.
It will come out and we can pick through it well.
The philosophy behind the selection of the team taken to
account the op position, and from what you've said, Jason,
that philosophy and the theories behind what they're doing, it's
going to be very much we're going to keep the
(08:15):
ball up front and we're going to crunch you in
the middle, and then we'll let it go later on.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Is that fair? Is it too simple? No?
Speaker 4 (08:22):
I think I think one thing I would like to
see a bit more from the All Blacks is a
bit more balance in their game. You find for All
Blacks they almost going periods of twenty minutes. So last
week everything was wide wide initially and then in the
second half we went back to more of a power
game and you saw a bit more influenced from Artisavera
those types of players. I would like an ability to
play that power game and then when we collect the opposition,
(08:44):
didn go to the width, but it seems like we
get stuck in a run of just east to west
for twenty minutes and then twenty minutes of up the
guards without a combination of the two. So I think
that's what they'll be looking to develop within their game.
I think they need to stick with Simon Parker. I
think they need that extra height in the lner and
particularly against England who have got a bunch of giants
and maritoj leading the defensive laner who's probably one of
(09:06):
the defense best defensive lineout fours in the world. If
you go in there with because there is a potential
to play Addie Severe Wallace a TDI whom I'm missing
out another short and backgrower creepy perhaps, or you know,
Peter Larky is not tall either, so if you were
like I know and Ardie and Wallace, that's just too
(09:28):
short for me against the better international size and particularly England,
I think you need to have a big body like
Simon Parker there to have three genuine options around the
line out. So I think they'll persist with Simon Parker,
and I really do like Peter Larky, I think as
an outstanding playing and Artie is Artie you wouldn't for
anybody in the world. So I would like to see
them continue with that group, and particularly in the absence
(09:49):
of tabu Via through injury, who would have been the
other option at six. But I think they should potentially
persist without in the future. I think there's some there's
some genuine ability there for Tubu Vai and the way
that Holland's playing. In particular, he's going to quickly become
the first lot they've got on the on the team sheet,
i'd imagine.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And last, but certainly not least did Jason o'hallerin how
much are the scott Is going to rely on passion?
It's ae hundred years since I first played Murrayfield, so
this is this is very emotional. How far can that
carry them?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Do you think?
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Well, if they have the passion, with Finn Russell's genius
on top of it and some front football from quick Rucks,
then they can cause the All Blacks problems. But I
think the All backs will play some rugby initially, like
if they get caught out playing that style of rugby,
make eras and then Scotland get ahold of the ball
and turn some turnovers white to John van der Merger,
(10:45):
or Fin Russell exposes them with cross kicks or I
thought there was a couple of dead cepportunities rather than
last week, but Crowley just butchered the kicks and I
think Finn will be aware of that from the analysis.
If that happens, then the game could open up a
bit and we could get ourselves in a bit of trouble,
but I think then that'll just lead us to the
promised languages, back to the set piece, more lighter and
(11:06):
scrump for penalties, So I think the Allbacks will always
have that escape hatch on the scape due to the
lack of depth and prompt for Scotland.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to news Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.