November 13, 2025 • 10 mins
The All Blacks' Grand Slam tour continues on this weekend, as the Kiwi side gears up to face England.
The All Blacks will face off against one of their greatest rugby rivals on Sunday in Twickenham, and anticipation is growing.
BBC rugby correspondent Chris Jones joined D'Arcy to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk z'b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
You well know as a sports fan that it's a
pretty big match on Sunday morning. The All Blacks are
not only looking to make it three from three in
the Grand Slam Tour. If they win this, you'd suggest
the Grand Slam is as good as theirs after what
the Welsh have failed to put up in recent times.
We heard from Bryn Hall last night, so we can't figure.
(00:33):
Let's go to the other side of the world and
here from I wouldn't call them the enemy. I call
them part of a media who reports on the enemy.
We're joined now by Chris Jones, Rugby Addicts from the
BBC in England. He's going to tell us a bit
more about the makeup of the English side that was
named a couple of days ago, talk about the weapons
in the English side, the areas of the game that
(00:55):
they'll look to exploit. Where are our weaknesses? He joins us. Now, Chris,
welcome to the show. First up, this is arguably the
biggest game in Northern Hemisphere Grand Slam Tour. Wait, is
it we got that much to be afraid of? When
it comes to this English side.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Oh good to be here, great to chat to you
guys as ever. Yeah, look in this part of the while,
we're really excited for this one. England have been been
up and down for a while, but they've got some
form together on the Steve Borth, They've won their last nine.
This is the chance to win a tenth in a row.
Not being in the All Blacks though in six years,
(01:32):
not being in the spring Box in four so it's
about time England took a big Southern hemisphere's scalp. The
bookies have got This is a one point game in
England's favor, very very rare for England to start as
the bookie's favorite or being narrowly against the All Blacks.
You think that the All Blacks just might have that
tiny bit of an edge because they won three tight games.
(01:52):
But certainly there's some momentum around England at the moment.
There's some belief around England, there's some strength and depth.
They've stacked their bench. So yeah, there'll be a pretty
expectant home crowd at Twickenham on Saturday will feel this
is the time for England to get one over the
over the news Indus.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Chris the English side was released a couple of days ago.
Now a number of changes from that Fiji in match.
Is there anything that peaked your interest and any player
that's involved that is a clear and prison danger for
the All Black side.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Well, the fly half is so interesting for England at
the moment because they've got a few good options. When
England played you guys last Marcus Smith was at fly
half for all three of those Test matches in twenty
twenty four. He lost his place then to Finn Smith
in the Six Nations and then Finn Smith lost it
(02:43):
to George Ford. When Finn Smith was on the Lions
tour as was Marcus Smith and George Ford started against
the Wallabies, Finn played against Australia against Fiji rather and
now George Ford's back for the All Black So ten
is really interesting because you've got a real those mix
of options there, from kind of the running option in
Marcus Smith to the experienced option in George Ford. Finns
(03:06):
Smith's a good all rounder who is the future, but
George four definitely deserves the shirt and he's got a
few things to put right from this time last year
where he came off the bench and missed a kick,
hit the post and then pushed the drop goal wide
which would have won the game at the end for England.
So expect George to be bang up for showing what
he's all about. But the bit that I think is
(03:28):
catching most people's eye over here is not the starting fifteen.
It's what support is leading back on the bench of
the replacement six of British Irish Lions. Of that sixth
a good number of them with Test Lions. The whole
front row genj cow and Dickey and Will Stewart have
(03:49):
played Test matches for the lines, either on this tour
just gone or the one in twenty twenty one. Tom
Curry is one of England's greatest ever back rows who
has been a starting Test flanker on the last two
tours for the Lions. Henry Pollocks the young tear away,
Ben Spencer's a tie to winner with Bath and Marcus
Smith has got forty odd caps and has played a
(04:10):
lot a lot of this level. So Steve Borthwick is
banking a lot on England being in the game on
sixty and he's hoping this bench could do what they
weren't able to do the last few times England played Museum,
which has take England over the line because the Alls
have dominated the final quarter. On the last three times
these teams have met, England haven't been able to even
(04:31):
score a point after sixty. That's been the big area
for Steve Borthwick to rectify since England last played New Zealand.
And we'll see on Saturday whether this this bench selection
holding back so many gun players will be vindicated. From
Steve Borthwick's point of view.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Of course, skipper Atoji Becky gain in the second row.
I'm interested in what threats that turfe you were Boso
brings this guy as an excitement machine.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yeah, he's looking good. So he hasn't had the easiest year.
He got a big injury which ruled him out of
some Test matches and probably stopped him going on the
Lions tour. Then he got a ban which meant that
he missed the first couple of Test matches on England
summer tour. So he is absolutely raring and he's been
(05:20):
looking sharp without getting a ton of ball. They wanted
him on the ball more than he was on the
ball against Australia, but he got plenty of it. Against
Beg scored a big try this time last year against
the All Blacks. Very explosive, very dynamic start of his
test journey. But a guy with all the tools on
the other wing. Tom Roebuck is a good, tall, rangey,
(05:42):
powerful runner, very good in the air. Out of the
Tommy Freeman. Mold Freeman is injured, which is a blow,
but Roebucks are like for like who's in really good
form and is showing what he can do for club
and country. So yeah, England have got They've got options now.
They would probably love to have Elliot Daily, George fairbank
Fit or Freddie Stewart's, you know, a very solid option
(06:03):
in number fifteen. They'd love to have Tommy Freeman. Love
to body Chesham, but the All Blacks are missing a few.
Jordi Barretts already at home, isn't he? A couple of
others are on tour or have had to go back.
So I think it's probably a bit honest. Even when
it comes to players missing, it's all set up to
be a really really good one.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Let's talk dominance from the English side, Chris plainly, they're
going to go and love the high ball. It's going
to be appen Nanda statistic back three. But is there
any other area in this English team that might assert
some dominance over the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, I think that that area is big, the aerial area.
I think they'll probably look to put New Zealand under
stress and try and play on their discipline after what
happened in Edinburgh with those three yellow cards, and I
think just try and make the most of the fact
that this All Blacks team have struggled, haven't they to
play consistent rugby through the course of an eighty in
(06:57):
Bush's first half in Edinburgh, back quarter in Chicago against
Ireland they've looked like the All Blacks of old, but
too often second half in Wellington against the spring Box
in times of those Test match defeats by Argentina other
Test matches under Robertson, they've just drifted in and out
of game. So I think that'll be a focus of Warthwick,
(07:18):
making sure that if New Zealand have a flat spell,
which they're prone to have, England can can capitalize. So yeah, tactically,
I think both both head coaches will use to boot plenty.
It's gonna be a really wet day here, which might
tighten things up, the scrum pattle, the more battle who
gets on the right side of the rep of the breakdown,
and they've got they've got to try and nullify guys
(07:41):
like Ardie Severa on the floor. I think he's one
of the best to ever do it. Sever especially in
that area at the breakdown. And England have stacked their
team with number sevens. You know, they've got three sevens
across the back row with Ben el and with Sam
Underhill and Guy Pepper, and another two sevens on the
bench in Tom Curry and Henry Pollock. So five number
(08:03):
sevens in the twenty three shows us that Steve Orflocks
sees that breakdown area as a massive, massive, massive part
of the game.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
What about the All Blacks? Where are there three? It's
where the areas? Do you saying that the Abs can
dominate or the assignancy during this fixture?
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I think it's these athletes you've got. I think even
though this is not a Vinta Jaw Blacks team, they
can still play vinto Jaw Blacks rugby. And I think
in the case of maybe five or six of the
All Blacks either are still generational players that would that
would be competing together in the twenty fifteen Or Blacks
or the nineteen ninety five All Blacks. You know, guys
(08:42):
like Cody Taylor, Wallace, a Tita Ardie Severa, Cameroy God's
going to be a world Beata voter, Barrel, Will Jordan
already are. There's enough there Forringland to be scared of
or to be wary of. I don't think it's quite
like old All Blacks teams where you look one to
fifteen or even one to twenty three and you go, wow,
how are you stopping that whole team? You know, the
(09:03):
twenty fifteen All Blacks, every single position had a generational
player in it. I don't think it's that way yet
for this All Blacks team. And maybe there'll be players
who go to that status in time, but not quite
at the moment. But I think players like the TT
players like Arnie severt I, Okayla Clark is not playing
this weekend, but there are still players Will Jordan roy
(09:26):
Guard who could make something happen that will have it
New Zealand scoring in sevens. That's what they're gonna have
to be whearial because they they played a team in
Australia who had no attacking edge whatsoever in the first game.
Fiji did, but England were able to really take the
game away from Fiji when Fiji flagged in the final
twenty thirty forty minutes of the game. New Zealand won't
(09:49):
flag like Fiji, but they do have the ability to
strike from anywhere like Fiji, so I think that'll be
a big area of focus. How do you make sure
someone like Wallas the TT, someone like Will Jordan doesn't
get an opportunity to take England on
Speaker 1 (10:04):
For more from sports talkers and lived News, Talk set
Me from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk z'b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
You well know as a sports fan that it's a
pretty big match on Sunday morning. The All Blacks are
not only looking to make it three from three in
the Grand Slam Tour. If they win this, you'd suggest
the Grand Slam is as good as theirs after what
the Welsh have failed to put up in recent times.
We heard from Bryn Hall last night, so we can't figure.
(00:33):
Let's go to the other side of the world and
here from I wouldn't call them the enemy. I call
them part of a media who reports on the enemy.
We're joined now by Chris Jones, Rugby Addicts from the
BBC in England. He's going to tell us a bit
more about the makeup of the English side that was
named a couple of days ago, talk about the weapons
in the English side, the areas of the game that
(00:55):
they'll look to exploit. Where are our weaknesses? He joins us. Now, Chris,
welcome to the show. First up, this is arguably the
biggest game in Northern Hemisphere Grand Slam Tour. Wait, is
it we got that much to be afraid of? When
it comes to this English side.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Oh good to be here, great to chat to you
guys as ever. Yeah, look in this part of the while,
we're really excited for this one. England have been been
up and down for a while, but they've got some
form together on the Steve Borth, They've won their last nine.
This is the chance to win a tenth in a row.
Not being in the All Blacks though in six years,
(01:32):
not being in the spring Box in four so it's
about time England took a big Southern hemisphere's scalp. The
bookies have got This is a one point game in
England's favor, very very rare for England to start as
the bookie's favorite or being narrowly against the All Blacks.
You think that the All Blacks just might have that
tiny bit of an edge because they won three tight games.
(01:52):
But certainly there's some momentum around England at the moment.
There's some belief around England, there's some strength and depth.
They've stacked their bench. So yeah, there'll be a pretty
expectant home crowd at Twickenham on Saturday will feel this
is the time for England to get one over the
over the news Indus.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Chris the English side was released a couple of days ago.
Now a number of changes from that Fiji in match.
Is there anything that peaked your interest and any player
that's involved that is a clear and prison danger for
the All Black side.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Well, the fly half is so interesting for England at
the moment because they've got a few good options. When
England played you guys last Marcus Smith was at fly
half for all three of those Test matches in twenty
twenty four. He lost his place then to Finn Smith
in the Six Nations and then Finn Smith lost it
(02:43):
to George Ford. When Finn Smith was on the Lions
tour as was Marcus Smith and George Ford started against
the Wallabies, Finn played against Australia against Fiji rather and
now George Ford's back for the All Black So ten
is really interesting because you've got a real those mix
of options there, from kind of the running option in
Marcus Smith to the experienced option in George Ford. Finns
(03:06):
Smith's a good all rounder who is the future, but
George four definitely deserves the shirt and he's got a
few things to put right from this time last year
where he came off the bench and missed a kick,
hit the post and then pushed the drop goal wide
which would have won the game at the end for England.
So expect George to be bang up for showing what
he's all about. But the bit that I think is
(03:28):
catching most people's eye over here is not the starting fifteen.
It's what support is leading back on the bench of
the replacement six of British Irish Lions. Of that sixth
a good number of them with Test Lions. The whole
front row genj cow and Dickey and Will Stewart have
(03:49):
played Test matches for the lines, either on this tour
just gone or the one in twenty twenty one. Tom
Curry is one of England's greatest ever back rows who
has been a starting Test flanker on the last two
tours for the Lions. Henry Pollocks the young tear away,
Ben Spencer's a tie to winner with Bath and Marcus
Smith has got forty odd caps and has played a
(04:10):
lot a lot of this level. So Steve Borthwick is
banking a lot on England being in the game on
sixty and he's hoping this bench could do what they
weren't able to do the last few times England played Museum,
which has take England over the line because the Alls
have dominated the final quarter. On the last three times
these teams have met, England haven't been able to even
(04:31):
score a point after sixty. That's been the big area
for Steve Borthwick to rectify since England last played New Zealand.
And we'll see on Saturday whether this this bench selection
holding back so many gun players will be vindicated. From
Steve Borthwick's point of view.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Of course, skipper Atoji Becky gain in the second row.
I'm interested in what threats that turfe you were Boso
brings this guy as an excitement machine.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yeah, he's looking good. So he hasn't had the easiest year.
He got a big injury which ruled him out of
some Test matches and probably stopped him going on the
Lions tour. Then he got a ban which meant that
he missed the first couple of Test matches on England
summer tour. So he is absolutely raring and he's been
(05:20):
looking sharp without getting a ton of ball. They wanted
him on the ball more than he was on the
ball against Australia, but he got plenty of it. Against
Beg scored a big try this time last year against
the All Blacks. Very explosive, very dynamic start of his
test journey. But a guy with all the tools on
the other wing. Tom Roebuck is a good, tall, rangey,
(05:42):
powerful runner, very good in the air. Out of the
Tommy Freeman. Mold Freeman is injured, which is a blow,
but Roebucks are like for like who's in really good
form and is showing what he can do for club
and country. So yeah, England have got They've got options now.
They would probably love to have Elliot Daily, George fairbank
Fit or Freddie Stewart's, you know, a very solid option
(06:03):
in number fifteen. They'd love to have Tommy Freeman. Love
to body Chesham, but the All Blacks are missing a few.
Jordi Barretts already at home, isn't he? A couple of
others are on tour or have had to go back.
So I think it's probably a bit honest. Even when
it comes to players missing, it's all set up to
be a really really good one.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Let's talk dominance from the English side, Chris plainly, they're
going to go and love the high ball. It's going
to be appen Nanda statistic back three. But is there
any other area in this English team that might assert
some dominance over the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, I think that that area is big, the aerial area.
I think they'll probably look to put New Zealand under
stress and try and play on their discipline after what
happened in Edinburgh with those three yellow cards, and I
think just try and make the most of the fact
that this All Blacks team have struggled, haven't they to
play consistent rugby through the course of an eighty in
(06:57):
Bush's first half in Edinburgh, back quarter in Chicago against
Ireland they've looked like the All Blacks of old, but
too often second half in Wellington against the spring Box
in times of those Test match defeats by Argentina other
Test matches under Robertson, they've just drifted in and out
of game. So I think that'll be a focus of Warthwick,
(07:18):
making sure that if New Zealand have a flat spell,
which they're prone to have, England can can capitalize. So yeah, tactically,
I think both both head coaches will use to boot plenty.
It's gonna be a really wet day here, which might
tighten things up, the scrum pattle, the more battle who
gets on the right side of the rep of the breakdown,
and they've got they've got to try and nullify guys
(07:41):
like Ardie Severa on the floor. I think he's one
of the best to ever do it. Sever especially in
that area at the breakdown. And England have stacked their
team with number sevens. You know, they've got three sevens
across the back row with Ben el and with Sam
Underhill and Guy Pepper, and another two sevens on the
bench in Tom Curry and Henry Pollock. So five number
(08:03):
sevens in the twenty three shows us that Steve Orflocks
sees that breakdown area as a massive, massive, massive part
of the game.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
What about the All Blacks? Where are there three? It's
where the areas? Do you saying that the Abs can
dominate or the assignancy during this fixture?
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I think it's these athletes you've got. I think even
though this is not a Vinta Jaw Blacks team, they
can still play vinto Jaw Blacks rugby. And I think
in the case of maybe five or six of the
All Blacks either are still generational players that would that
would be competing together in the twenty fifteen Or Blacks
or the nineteen ninety five All Blacks. You know, guys
(08:42):
like Cody Taylor, Wallace, a Tita Ardie Severa, Cameroy God's
going to be a world Beata voter, Barrel, Will Jordan
already are. There's enough there Forringland to be scared of
or to be wary of. I don't think it's quite
like old All Blacks teams where you look one to
fifteen or even one to twenty three and you go, wow,
how are you stopping that whole team? You know, the
(09:03):
twenty fifteen All Blacks, every single position had a generational
player in it. I don't think it's that way yet
for this All Blacks team. And maybe there'll be players
who go to that status in time, but not quite
at the moment. But I think players like the TT
players like Arnie severt I, Okayla Clark is not playing
this weekend, but there are still players Will Jordan roy
(09:26):
Guard who could make something happen that will have it
New Zealand scoring in sevens. That's what they're gonna have
to be whearial because they they played a team in
Australia who had no attacking edge whatsoever in the first game.
Fiji did, but England were able to really take the
game away from Fiji when Fiji flagged in the final
twenty thirty forty minutes of the game. New Zealand won't
(09:49):
flag like Fiji, but they do have the ability to
strike from anywhere like Fiji, so I think that'll be
a big area of focus. How do you make sure
someone like Wallas the TT, someone like Will Jordan doesn't
get an opportunity to take England on
Speaker 1 (10:04):
For more from sports talkers and lived News, Talk set
Me from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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