November 25, 2025 • 12 mins
The 2025 rugby season has officially ended, with the northern tours wrapping up over the weekend.
The All Blacks capped the year off with a 52-26 win over Wales, the Wallabies lost a record 10th test match in the calendar year to France 48-33, the Springboks got over the Irish 24-13, despite getting a record number of cards.
The English won their 11th consecutive test match against Argentina 27-23, and Japan knocked over a last minute penalty to beat Georgia 25-23
Todd Blackadder is a former All Black, and he joined D'Arcy to discuss the state of international rugby following the test matches.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldegrave
from News Talk z'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Twenty twenty five international rugby season has drawn to a
closed and Northern tourist all wrapped over the weekend. All Blacks, well,
they got it done against Wales fifty two to twenty six.
Fifty two sure something to smile about. The twenty six
nothing to smile about at all. The Wallabies lost a
record at tenth Test match in that calendar year. They
(00:35):
got overwhelmed by France forty eight thirty three Springbok speak
the Irish twenty four p thirteen host on the wrong
side of five cards, four yellows and a red. That's
not just the All Blacks are get hammered by the officials.
That equaled the most for any team in an international
rugby match. Else, English won the eleventh consecutive Test match
(00:59):
against Argentina. Wasn't overly convincing twenty seven twenty three, but
they got the score and Japan is to get a
last minute penalty to beat Georgia twenty five at twenty
three Great Northern Tour. Right across the board, some teams
really turning up and showing us they're where's other teams
looking a bit average? Todd Black at form All Black
(01:20):
current coach coach of the Coach, current toast of the
Tashiba Brave Loopers in Japan. It joins us Now to
take a look at the state of international rugby following
those Northern Tours and who the threats are in next
year's Nation Championships the Rugby World Cup. Following that, Todd
Welcome to the show. Was great to catch up. The
(01:42):
new World Rugby rankings have come out following the Northern Tours.
Are I'm not entirely sure that they're completely accurate. In fact,
I know they're not. They're a bit silly. What do
you make of it?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Mate?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
You I'm a little bit like you, Dessy when I
look at the world rankings are probably novel over it
in the fact that I really understand it sometimes and
you know, teams beat other teams and you know the
store ranked below them, and yet you know it seems
to be that like some some teams play a lot
more sort of like first or a grade test teams
and other teams. So yeah, I don't really get I
(02:19):
don't really get too into it too much. It's quite
complex to me, but I did go through and have
a look and sort of rank them and what I
thought that. Yeah, I think next year's Nations Cups will
certainly be another interesting take on where the world rankings
are and he finishes what and where and what that
looks like. And actually I think that could be quite
interesting because it's more like a competition, a global competition,
(02:41):
rather than we have our championship and six nations and
that sort of thing. So I think next year that'll
be really intriguing.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I think you'll find, well, I hope that the teams
will be more primed because there is actually something on
the line. It's just not another with all due respect,
another international. There is a prize at the end of it,
so we're going to see the best teams in each
hemisphere and we're not going to end up with France,
for example touring which probably helped the All Blacks ratings.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Knowing right, yeah, well I've got that down there when
you set of rankings and you know, like New Zealand
on the world rankings at number two, but sort of
on the rankings, just to give you an idea of
where I put the All Black Seashore, I put them
at number three because I just thought, said Africa, we're
out outstanding. I thought England were really good and you know,
they beat us, of course, but they had a really
(03:32):
successful November Test series, and I put New Zealand at three.
Ireland for the big movers for me, Argentina five. I
had France, sax, Australia seven, scol and a athlete nine
and ten. And just to give you an example, when
I looked at Australia, I mean they had probably one
of the toughest Tests seasons of any of the of
(03:55):
the countries. Probably South Africa probably played just as many
Tier ones, but they had the Lions this year, so
the three Test series against the Lions, and then one
week later they had to go and play South Africa
and at Africa and actually won their first game and
then lost a second. And they've you know, I think
they've when you look at the amount of injuries that
they've had. Even though I ranked them seven, I still think,
(04:17):
you know, a lot of good will come out of
this season. Even if you looked at it and said
that they probably you know, they didn't have a great season,
but I don't think any other Test team and world
Regue probably had a tougher drawer than what they did.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
He mentioned South Africa. There they are a team at
the top of their game, but they're also a team
that maybe in two years time, are they still going
to have access to some of those old gladiators that
are propping this team up? So well, I suppose I've
got to back Rassi Erasmus to do what he does
and pick more players to come through. But are they
coming down to a downslope? Do you think?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
No? I think they're just at the start of their
curve up. Unfortunately, you know, when I look at them,
I just look at you know, he's basically got two teams,
you know, and he's got building so much depth, and
you know, if you just simply want to get better,
you've got to be competing against the best. And you know,
obviously the way that they trained, the way that they
compete is only creating more quality players and more qualarly depth.
(05:14):
And you know, I think what they've got is a
really successful formula and I can't see them getting any weaker.
And if anything, there's some good young guys that you've
just seen there and again, and he slowly drips feed
them back into the team when they're ready, and he
keeps their experienced players sort of fresh, and you know
they're I think they're going to be right at the
top for a long time. And I think England are
(05:35):
probably the biggest movers and the way that they've probably
changed their game a little bit. You know, they're playing
a lot more expensively than what they have and they
look like they've got a younger side as well, and
you know they've adopted the six to two being sort
of thing. So yeah, they're probably shaping they could sort
of be one of those teams that could really compete
(05:56):
the South Africa up front.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Steve Borthor obviously doing the right thing. He's got the
minds and the hearts of these players and he knows
what they want. It's an Englishman coaching English. How do
you figure that works?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah, I think it's worked really well for them and
that they've changed. They're put in a new attack coach
I think from Bath to come in and bolster of
the team. And you know, it's just watched them. They're
playing really expensively and you know when they played us,
they looked, you know, they look confident, they looked like
they were really clear even when they're under pressure. And
I think that's you know, if you look at those,
you know, the best teams when they're under pressure. In
said Africa as an example of one two games with
(06:31):
forty men with two red cards. I mean, they just
go back to the DNA, don't they. And I thought
England against US really went back to the DNA and
they under pressure, they look strong and George Ford kicked
a few goals, So you know, I think there's been
some really good movement. I think, as you've probably seen
right across the board, the competition is just immense, isn't it.
I mean, it's been a great These tests have been
(06:52):
have been fantastic to watch.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Let's not avoid the elephant in the room in New
Zealand's two years halfway through Robertson's cycle ahead of a
World Cup, have you noticed anything in particular that would
make you smart or anything tecularly to make you go oh,
Because for me, the team's taking a few steps forward
and then it's staggering a few steps backwards. Then it's
gone a few ford, then a few backwards. Is the
(07:15):
making of a world conquering team, isn't there somewhere Todd I.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Think, like, I think it's like a cycle.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I think obviously it's frustrating, you know when you watch
the boys play. But I think too, like maybe a
lot of you know, some good has to come out
of the season where they've had probably two inconsistent seasons
in a row. And you know, I'm sure they'll get
back to the drawing board, but next year it has
to be one of those seasons where they really had
to start stamping the mark and maybe let's just take
(07:45):
one game of a time and get those boys really
really performing well and playing well and send a confidence
back in the Jersey because it's obviously been quite a
learning curve.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Do you think they know what kind of All Black
team they need to be? Do you feel like the
team singing off the same song sheet they have an
idea and knowledge what the DNA actually is.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, I think it's talking about and doing it are
two different things. And I think, you know, I think
when really good teams are in flow, and I think
that the international game is slightly different, like I think
when you look at just for example, like the kicking
the box kicking and sometimes a little bit slower and
power plays and yeah, the international game is sort of
(08:30):
like redefining itself, isn't it. It's around pressure and momentum
and things like that. And you know, when I look
at super rugby, it's not always conducive to to what
international looks like. If you look at Super Ragby as
an example, they want everything sped up and there's no
time for an injury. And when you look at the
international rugby, especially with the top sides, it's just so physical,
(08:53):
aren't they. You know, the kicking games just a huge
part of the way that they want to play. And
discipline on the other hand, you know, really can really
hurt you when you get that wrong, but you know
you've got about to execute under pre sup But to
answer your question, I think they will. They will be
dissatisfied with the season and they'll be looking for a
lot more continuity in the way that they play for
(09:15):
next season.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
What do we think of where France is going? Like
they managed to ham at Australia, but as you pointed out,
Australia had a very long and difficult season. French team
never quite know what you're going to get with her
on tour where they're staying or whatever. But they're showing
enough for you to suggest they will be a threat
come the Nation's championships.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, I think there will be a threat, I think,
but that's when they've played their top team and even
when you watch them, they've beaten Australia, but they've really
struggled otherwise. You know, they seen a France B team
outs in New Zealand and other than that, it's going
to be really interesting to see how they perform in
the Six Nations this year, especially gets with the likes
of Ireland obviously getting better and they probably would be
(09:59):
disappointed with their in November, and also with England where
they are at. So it's going to be really interesting.
I always feel. But France don't really play enough and
they're probably missing the game breakers with the likes of
Deep Pond and things like that. But as you know,
they've got a really good you know, their top side
and flow and when they play with momentum and very
(10:20):
very hard to stop. But yeah, they're a little bit
of a wait and see and I think they don't
play enough and they probably like that consistency. When if
I were to compare them to like South Africa and
in Ireland, where are they at yeah, I think I
think a lot of their players that had a bit
of a slow start, didn't they They come out of
the line series and they looked a little bit underprepared
(10:40):
when they played the All Blacks and even when they
played Japan, they just looked out of sorts. And you know,
they look like they're really in the red when they
played South Africa. They're all almost a little bit too
fired up. But yeah, I think, you know, I think
that that's an Iris team, that they've got quality players,
and we'll learn a lot from the vers series and
(11:02):
they will definitely be better than that.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And what do you make of Argentina and where they sit?
And they put Whales to the sword, but so to wear,
Wales aren't exactly great. They had a wonderful year, beating
the All Blacks at home for the for the very
first time, sitting there or thereabouts. Where are they for you?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Well, I think they are the big movers for me,
I really, you know, if you look at them, they
probably have a handful of home games. Otherwise they've spent
the whole the whole season on the road, don't they.
And it's been a long year for them. You know,
they've beaten all the top teams and you know they
pushed England. With another five minutes, they probably would have
won that game at the end, you know, the death there.
(11:41):
But you know, for me, I think they are the
big movers and you know, they look well coached. They've
got big players, and you know they're probably probably tagged
a little bit like us have probably been a little
bit inconsistent, but they get that consistency. You know, they've
always been in the top four or top five in
every World Cup and that's for a good reason. You know,
they're big men and they're really really physical, so you know,
(12:03):
in any given day they can beat you. One Also
to for me, they're building a lot of depth. He's
been a lot of young players. I don't know their names,
but I've watched them come through and you know they've
played really well and looks like they're building some good
depths there.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Waldegrave
from News Talk z'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Twenty twenty five international rugby season has drawn to a
closed and Northern tourist all wrapped over the weekend. All Blacks, well,
they got it done against Wales fifty two to twenty six.
Fifty two sure something to smile about. The twenty six
nothing to smile about at all. The Wallabies lost a
record at tenth Test match in that calendar year. They
(00:35):
got overwhelmed by France forty eight thirty three Springbok speak
the Irish twenty four p thirteen host on the wrong
side of five cards, four yellows and a red. That's
not just the All Blacks are get hammered by the officials.
That equaled the most for any team in an international
rugby match. Else, English won the eleventh consecutive Test match
(00:59):
against Argentina. Wasn't overly convincing twenty seven twenty three, but
they got the score and Japan is to get a
last minute penalty to beat Georgia twenty five at twenty
three Great Northern Tour. Right across the board, some teams
really turning up and showing us they're where's other teams
looking a bit average? Todd Black at form All Black
(01:20):
current coach coach of the Coach, current toast of the
Tashiba Brave Loopers in Japan. It joins us Now to
take a look at the state of international rugby following
those Northern Tours and who the threats are in next
year's Nation Championships the Rugby World Cup. Following that, Todd
Welcome to the show. Was great to catch up. The
(01:42):
new World Rugby rankings have come out following the Northern Tours.
Are I'm not entirely sure that they're completely accurate. In fact,
I know they're not. They're a bit silly. What do
you make of it?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Mate?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
You I'm a little bit like you, Dessy when I
look at the world rankings are probably novel over it
in the fact that I really understand it sometimes and
you know, teams beat other teams and you know the
store ranked below them, and yet you know it seems
to be that like some some teams play a lot
more sort of like first or a grade test teams
and other teams. So yeah, I don't really get I
(02:19):
don't really get too into it too much. It's quite
complex to me, but I did go through and have
a look and sort of rank them and what I
thought that. Yeah, I think next year's Nations Cups will
certainly be another interesting take on where the world rankings
are and he finishes what and where and what that
looks like. And actually I think that could be quite
interesting because it's more like a competition, a global competition,
(02:41):
rather than we have our championship and six nations and
that sort of thing. So I think next year that'll
be really intriguing.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I think you'll find, well, I hope that the teams
will be more primed because there is actually something on
the line. It's just not another with all due respect,
another international. There is a prize at the end of it,
so we're going to see the best teams in each
hemisphere and we're not going to end up with France,
for example touring which probably helped the All Blacks ratings.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Knowing right, yeah, well I've got that down there when
you set of rankings and you know, like New Zealand
on the world rankings at number two, but sort of
on the rankings, just to give you an idea of
where I put the All Black Seashore, I put them
at number three because I just thought, said Africa, we're
out outstanding. I thought England were really good and you know,
they beat us, of course, but they had a really
(03:32):
successful November Test series, and I put New Zealand at three.
Ireland for the big movers for me, Argentina five. I
had France, sax, Australia seven, scol and a athlete nine
and ten. And just to give you an example, when
I looked at Australia, I mean they had probably one
of the toughest Tests seasons of any of the of
(03:55):
the countries. Probably South Africa probably played just as many
Tier ones, but they had the Lions this year, so
the three Test series against the Lions, and then one
week later they had to go and play South Africa
and at Africa and actually won their first game and
then lost a second. And they've you know, I think
they've when you look at the amount of injuries that
they've had. Even though I ranked them seven, I still think,
(04:17):
you know, a lot of good will come out of
this season. Even if you looked at it and said
that they probably you know, they didn't have a great season,
but I don't think any other Test team and world
Regue probably had a tougher drawer than what they did.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
He mentioned South Africa. There they are a team at
the top of their game, but they're also a team
that maybe in two years time, are they still going
to have access to some of those old gladiators that
are propping this team up? So well, I suppose I've
got to back Rassi Erasmus to do what he does
and pick more players to come through. But are they
coming down to a downslope? Do you think?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
No? I think they're just at the start of their
curve up. Unfortunately, you know, when I look at them,
I just look at you know, he's basically got two teams,
you know, and he's got building so much depth, and
you know, if you just simply want to get better,
you've got to be competing against the best. And you know,
obviously the way that they trained, the way that they
compete is only creating more quality players and more qualarly depth.
(05:14):
And you know, I think what they've got is a
really successful formula and I can't see them getting any weaker.
And if anything, there's some good young guys that you've
just seen there and again, and he slowly drips feed
them back into the team when they're ready, and he
keeps their experienced players sort of fresh, and you know
they're I think they're going to be right at the
top for a long time. And I think England are
(05:35):
probably the biggest movers and the way that they've probably
changed their game a little bit. You know, they're playing
a lot more expensively than what they have and they
look like they've got a younger side as well, and
you know they've adopted the six to two being sort
of thing. So yeah, they're probably shaping they could sort
of be one of those teams that could really compete
(05:56):
the South Africa up front.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Steve Borthor obviously doing the right thing. He's got the
minds and the hearts of these players and he knows
what they want. It's an Englishman coaching English. How do
you figure that works?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah, I think it's worked really well for them and
that they've changed. They're put in a new attack coach
I think from Bath to come in and bolster of
the team. And you know, it's just watched them. They're
playing really expensively and you know when they played us,
they looked, you know, they look confident, they looked like
they were really clear even when they're under pressure. And
I think that's you know, if you look at those,
you know, the best teams when they're under pressure. In
said Africa as an example of one two games with
(06:31):
forty men with two red cards. I mean, they just
go back to the DNA, don't they. And I thought
England against US really went back to the DNA and
they under pressure, they look strong and George Ford kicked
a few goals, So you know, I think there's been
some really good movement. I think, as you've probably seen
right across the board, the competition is just immense, isn't it.
I mean, it's been a great These tests have been
(06:52):
have been fantastic to watch.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Let's not avoid the elephant in the room in New
Zealand's two years halfway through Robertson's cycle ahead of a
World Cup, have you noticed anything in particular that would
make you smart or anything tecularly to make you go oh,
Because for me, the team's taking a few steps forward
and then it's staggering a few steps backwards. Then it's
gone a few ford, then a few backwards. Is the
(07:15):
making of a world conquering team, isn't there somewhere Todd I.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Think, like, I think it's like a cycle.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I think obviously it's frustrating, you know when you watch
the boys play. But I think too, like maybe a
lot of you know, some good has to come out
of the season where they've had probably two inconsistent seasons
in a row. And you know, I'm sure they'll get
back to the drawing board, but next year it has
to be one of those seasons where they really had
to start stamping the mark and maybe let's just take
(07:45):
one game of a time and get those boys really
really performing well and playing well and send a confidence
back in the Jersey because it's obviously been quite a
learning curve.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Do you think they know what kind of All Black
team they need to be? Do you feel like the
team singing off the same song sheet they have an
idea and knowledge what the DNA actually is.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, I think it's talking about and doing it are
two different things. And I think, you know, I think
when really good teams are in flow, and I think
that the international game is slightly different, like I think
when you look at just for example, like the kicking
the box kicking and sometimes a little bit slower and
power plays and yeah, the international game is sort of
(08:30):
like redefining itself, isn't it. It's around pressure and momentum
and things like that. And you know, when I look
at super rugby, it's not always conducive to to what
international looks like. If you look at Super Ragby as
an example, they want everything sped up and there's no
time for an injury. And when you look at the
international rugby, especially with the top sides, it's just so physical,
(08:53):
aren't they. You know, the kicking games just a huge
part of the way that they want to play. And
discipline on the other hand, you know, really can really
hurt you when you get that wrong, but you know
you've got about to execute under pre sup But to
answer your question, I think they will. They will be
dissatisfied with the season and they'll be looking for a
lot more continuity in the way that they play for
(09:15):
next season.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
What do we think of where France is going? Like
they managed to ham at Australia, but as you pointed out,
Australia had a very long and difficult season. French team
never quite know what you're going to get with her
on tour where they're staying or whatever. But they're showing
enough for you to suggest they will be a threat
come the Nation's championships.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, I think there will be a threat, I think,
but that's when they've played their top team and even
when you watch them, they've beaten Australia, but they've really
struggled otherwise. You know, they seen a France B team
outs in New Zealand and other than that, it's going
to be really interesting to see how they perform in
the Six Nations this year, especially gets with the likes
of Ireland obviously getting better and they probably would be
(09:59):
disappointed with their in November, and also with England where
they are at. So it's going to be really interesting.
I always feel. But France don't really play enough and
they're probably missing the game breakers with the likes of
Deep Pond and things like that. But as you know,
they've got a really good you know, their top side
and flow and when they play with momentum and very
(10:20):
very hard to stop. But yeah, they're a little bit
of a wait and see and I think they don't
play enough and they probably like that consistency. When if
I were to compare them to like South Africa and
in Ireland, where are they at yeah, I think I
think a lot of their players that had a bit
of a slow start, didn't they They come out of
the line series and they looked a little bit underprepared
(10:40):
when they played the All Blacks and even when they
played Japan, they just looked out of sorts. And you know,
they look like they're really in the red when they
played South Africa. They're all almost a little bit too
fired up. But yeah, I think, you know, I think
that that's an Iris team, that they've got quality players,
and we'll learn a lot from the vers series and
(11:02):
they will definitely be better than that.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And what do you make of Argentina and where they sit?
And they put Whales to the sword, but so to wear,
Wales aren't exactly great. They had a wonderful year, beating
the All Blacks at home for the for the very
first time, sitting there or thereabouts. Where are they for you?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Well, I think they are the big movers for me,
I really, you know, if you look at them, they
probably have a handful of home games. Otherwise they've spent
the whole the whole season on the road, don't they.
And it's been a long year for them. You know,
they've beaten all the top teams and you know they
pushed England. With another five minutes, they probably would have
won that game at the end, you know, the death there.
(11:41):
But you know, for me, I think they are the
big movers and you know, they look well coached. They've
got big players, and you know they're probably probably tagged
a little bit like us have probably been a little
bit inconsistent, but they get that consistency. You know, they've
always been in the top four or top five in
every World Cup and that's for a good reason. You know,
they're big men and they're really really physical, so you know,
(12:03):
in any given day they can beat you. One Also
to for me, they're building a lot of depth. He's
been a lot of young players. I don't know their names,
but I've watched them come through and you know they've
played really well and looks like they're building some good
depths there.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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