December 4, 2025 • 11 mins
Earlier today an open letter signed by several former Black Caps test and One Day International players was shared.
The letter detailed concerns around the proposed, privately backed NZ20 T20 franchise cricket league.
The league is one of the four options that New Zealand Cricket are considering as the way forward for franchise cricket in New Zealand.
Don Mackinnon is the chairman of the NZ20 establishment committee, and he joined D'Arcy to share his thoughts on the concerns that were published today around this proposed competition.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildegrave
from News Talk zedb SO.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Earlier today, open letter was shared, signed by several former
Black Cap, Test and One Day International players concerns around
the proposed privately backed en ZED twenty T twenty Franchise
Cricket League. The league is one of four options that
New Zealand Cricket are considering is the way forward for
franchise cricket here in New Zealand. Don McKinnon is the
(00:34):
chair of the in ZED twenty Establishment Committee, joins us
now to share his thoughts on the concerns shared today
around this competition. Good evening, Don.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Good evenings chat.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It's been an odd couple of weeks in this We've
heard from Richard Peachrew on the show about the losing
control of T twenty and about your new proposition and
who's engaged and who hasn't. I suppose we start off
first and foremost. You're involved in this. Why is this
en ZED twenty in in a state where it might
want to climb into New Zealand cricket, Like, what's the
(01:10):
point behind this?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, the point behind the concept is, you know, frankly,
a group of us who care about the game, love
the game of had thought the time is right, that
we could really do with this competition to boost interest,
to get fans in love with the game again at
our domestic level. So you know, it's a concept that
(01:32):
we think the time's right, we think the money is available,
and therefore we became quite excited about the possibility of
bringing this to New Zealand Cricket and saying hey, can
you put this on your list of options because we
think we've got a hell.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Of a deal for you. And that's all it is.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
It's why some of the fallout and some of this
quite left field criticism has come as such a surprise
to us because it's simply an idea.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
A concept that we think could really help the gun.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
And that's always at the moment, it's conceptual. You're looking
through your process and go will this work? Will someone
back at will New Zealand Cricket be involved? What are
the players situations? So I'm presuming you've canvas everybody concerned.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Don Well, we've canvas everybody concerned in terms of New
Zealand stakeholder. So we've talked extensively with a New own
credit board We've talked.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Extensively of the major associations.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
The Players Association, that those are the main stakeholders in
New Zealand, and we've had extraordinary interest from potential investors overseas.
I mean a level of interested is buying my mind. Really,
the game is so loved and respected New Zealand cricket
are so loved and respected around the world that there
are there's real interest in private money coming into the
game to help Just this one competition you really important
(02:45):
to note doesn't affect the Black Caps, doesn't affect the
White Ferns, doesn't affect the Ford Trophy or.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Anything else of cricket.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
It's just this little window where we could potentially do
something really exciting to get people fizzing about domestic cricket.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
The talk has been coming from Roger B. Tree that
it is going to Basic League cripple New Zealand cricket
and the Test season that's going to interfere with the
Australian New Zealand series, with the incoming Sri Lankan series
maybe India later on in the piece. So how do
you set this T twenty league where it doesn't affect
what happens at a test cricket level. Is this a problem?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Look, I mean, I'll be as polite as I possibly
can here, you know, the leader from the players, I
have to say I found really surprising and disappointing the
former players and that is because none of them, I
mean the letters addressed to myself and Stephen Fleming and
two others, it was never actually sent to us. It
was sent to the media for reasons that you know,
(03:48):
I can only speculate on. But you know, if anybody
had bothered to ask us, the first thing we could
have said to them is we have been really upfront
with New Zealand Cricket that while a competition like this
really will succeed if we can get a four week
window for the men and initially a two week woman
for the two window for the women, let's be flexible
around when that is. You know, we'd love it to
(04:10):
be in January. Is because we want this sort of
grass bank grounds during the heat of summer. But if
the black Caps are playing the Fourth Test against Australia,
you'd be you'd be absolutely idiotic to try and set
up a T twenty to start during that Test and
then say to I don't know okay, and Williamson or
Darryl Mitchell. Oh, by the way, you're not playing the
(04:32):
Fourth Test. I mean, nobody in their right mind would
set up a competition like that. In our discussions with
New Zealand Cricket, it's being you know, let's just sit
down and while we'd love that window, clearly we need
to be flexible. If you support this concept, we all
need to be flexible around start and end dates. There'll
be sometimes when you have ICC events where you can't
(04:53):
release your best players.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
No problem, we'll make that work.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
But let's work on a concept of trying to get
a full week window for the men and two week
window for the women if we can around that December
January period often as we can.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
It's just just frankly common.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Sense financially wise, and we've talked about this or around
the office about where the money is coming from. There's
nothing set in stone, is there yet? But there is
huge interest out there, is that right?
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Don Look.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
See the thing that surprised me, although Stephen Flemy told
me this on day one is you know, there has
never been more money involved in international cricket and there's
never been more money available for investment now now we
can stay we can stay away from that. We can say, look,
we'll stay in our in our little world, or we
(05:44):
can say, okay, in the case of T twenty, why
don't we look at the learnings from just about every
other developed cricketing country around the world who have set
up one of these leagues. Let's put the best from
each of those models and see if we can do
something really funky and fan friendly ourselves. And it's just
(06:04):
really hard to understand why we couldn't.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Why we can't.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
You know, I've been at point pains to point out that,
you know, international investment in our sport around our country
is good for the game. I mean, you won't get
a better example than AFC and football, where you know,
international money in the form of an incredibly generous American
has gone into AFC and it's done amazing things for
football in our country. So why wouldn't we look at
(06:32):
that in a cricket context. If we can make it work.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
You don't want to climb in I'm presuming and wreck
any commercial partnerships that New Zealand Cricket have already got
because this group is saying, hey, you it could take
away some finance through TV rights and the like as well,
this is this is not your desire.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Well yeah, with the rates's greatest respect, Again, why didn't
they ask us or even ask New Zealand Cricket, because
both we or New Zealand Cricket could have said that
that's not all the model that we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I mean, what we are talking about.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
As a four week clear window if we can get
in for the for the men's comp Super Smash is
not being broadcast, doesn't have a broadcast partner from next year,
so you know, and it's costing New Zealand Cricket, as
I understand it, an extraordinary amount of money at the moment.
So you know, our model says, look, we'll take that
competition and effectively private owners carry the cost of that
(07:29):
if you can give us this window and we'll run
this comp very much inconsistent with New Zealand's high performance
pathway and under those circumstances, will will it put at
risk New Zealand crickets commercial relationships And if it does,
they won't give us a license in order to expect
them to.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
So again it's just common sense.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
The did Light team have been engaged by the selling
cricket looking at the four possibilities, what the supersmash reform,
BBL involvement, the state's quo or private league proposals, what
engagement if you had with the LOUTE.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Well in terms of in z twenty, I've made it
clear to News on Cricket that we will happily talk
to Deloitte that at the end of the day, we
want NEWS on Cricket to run a good process and
hopefully come to the view that this is the best option,
and if they don't, we will respect whatever other options
they choose to take. As I understand that the major
associations in the Cricket Class Association, we're a little concerned
(08:29):
about Deloitte, I think perhaps around their terms of reference
and they're working through that. But as I understand that
they fully intend to engage with them as well now,
so hopefully that roadblock has been has been passed, So you're.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
All up for that to be completely You've transparent around
what you're doing. You'd encourage them to be looking at
this for the best for New Zealand cricket.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I mean our one concern is our polite request in
Landers don't take too long with that analysis, because if
we are a viable option and we want it to
be operational in January twenty seven, there's an awful lot
of planning required before then. So you know, we can't
take a three or six month process if you want
(09:13):
to be operational in January twenty seven. But if New
Zealand Cricket take that long, they take that long. You know,
at the end of the day, they are the guardians
of the game. It's their responsibility. I think this decision
could be made reasonably promptly if providing we.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Cooperate, which we will, but at the end of the day,
it's their call, not out.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And one last thing, and Dom McKinnon, thanks so much
for joining, is what is next from your point of view?
What has to happen now?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Well, two things.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
One, we need to keep working with New Zealand Cricket
and Deloitte to try and show that this is a
really viable option and hopefully get their support. In principle,
we certainly couldn't expect the license until you know, we're
further down the track. At the same time, we need
to now go back to potential investors and make sure
they're still excited by this concept, and I need to
(10:05):
make it clear to speculation about who owns us and
whatever you the reality is we don't have an owner,
we don't have a bank account, we don't have a cent.
We're all unpaid in our n Z twenty roles because
we're doing this because we think it's a great idea.
So we just need to run the almost a parallel process,
Darcy of working with New Zealand Cricket along the concept,
(10:27):
working with investors, and then hopefully we can achieve a
really nice intersection in the next few weeks. And if
we do, you know, we could have some great news
for cricket in the future.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Well you didn't get the letter, so you don't know
who co signed it. But what would you say to
these players that are that are showing concerns around the
direction of the game. You got a message for them?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Oh, that's a tough question. Look, I think they need
to back New Zealand Cricket. They need to back the
News Own Cricket board and the team who I'm sure
are acting in the best interests of the game, and.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
You know a lot of their concerns.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
And New z Own Cricket are analyzing really carefully, but
you know, the people involved in n Z twenty aren't
bad people. We are we genuinely think this is a
great idea, but we will respect it if ultimately New
zond cricket goes down another path. And all we all want,
I think, is you know, for the game to be
fizzling and firing in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
And on that and it is quite frankly when it
comes to Test cricket right now, what's going on and
there in the middle. We wish you the best. On McKennon,
thank you very much for joining us here on News Talks.
E being must appreciated.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Shees Dusty, thanks very much for more from Sports Talk.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Listen live to News Talks it'd be from seven pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildegrave
from News Talk zedb SO.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Earlier today, open letter was shared, signed by several former
Black Cap, Test and One Day International players concerns around
the proposed privately backed en ZED twenty T twenty Franchise
Cricket League. The league is one of four options that
New Zealand Cricket are considering is the way forward for
franchise cricket here in New Zealand. Don McKinnon is the
(00:34):
chair of the in ZED twenty Establishment Committee, joins us
now to share his thoughts on the concerns shared today
around this competition. Good evening, Don.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Good evenings chat.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It's been an odd couple of weeks in this We've
heard from Richard Peachrew on the show about the losing
control of T twenty and about your new proposition and
who's engaged and who hasn't. I suppose we start off
first and foremost. You're involved in this. Why is this
en ZED twenty in in a state where it might
want to climb into New Zealand cricket, Like, what's the
(01:10):
point behind this?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, the point behind the concept is, you know, frankly,
a group of us who care about the game, love
the game of had thought the time is right, that
we could really do with this competition to boost interest,
to get fans in love with the game again at
our domestic level. So you know, it's a concept that
(01:32):
we think the time's right, we think the money is available,
and therefore we became quite excited about the possibility of
bringing this to New Zealand Cricket and saying hey, can
you put this on your list of options because we
think we've got a hell.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Of a deal for you. And that's all it is.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
It's why some of the fallout and some of this
quite left field criticism has come as such a surprise
to us because it's simply an idea.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
A concept that we think could really help the gun.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
And that's always at the moment, it's conceptual. You're looking
through your process and go will this work? Will someone
back at will New Zealand Cricket be involved? What are
the players situations? So I'm presuming you've canvas everybody concerned.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Don Well, we've canvas everybody concerned in terms of New
Zealand stakeholder. So we've talked extensively with a New own
credit board We've talked.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Extensively of the major associations.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
The Players Association, that those are the main stakeholders in
New Zealand, and we've had extraordinary interest from potential investors overseas.
I mean a level of interested is buying my mind. Really,
the game is so loved and respected New Zealand cricket
are so loved and respected around the world that there
are there's real interest in private money coming into the
game to help Just this one competition you really important
(02:45):
to note doesn't affect the Black Caps, doesn't affect the
White Ferns, doesn't affect the Ford Trophy or.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Anything else of cricket.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
It's just this little window where we could potentially do
something really exciting to get people fizzing about domestic cricket.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
The talk has been coming from Roger B. Tree that
it is going to Basic League cripple New Zealand cricket
and the Test season that's going to interfere with the
Australian New Zealand series, with the incoming Sri Lankan series
maybe India later on in the piece. So how do
you set this T twenty league where it doesn't affect
what happens at a test cricket level. Is this a problem?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Look, I mean, I'll be as polite as I possibly
can here, you know, the leader from the players, I
have to say I found really surprising and disappointing the
former players and that is because none of them, I
mean the letters addressed to myself and Stephen Fleming and
two others, it was never actually sent to us. It
was sent to the media for reasons that you know,
(03:48):
I can only speculate on. But you know, if anybody
had bothered to ask us, the first thing we could
have said to them is we have been really upfront
with New Zealand Cricket that while a competition like this
really will succeed if we can get a four week
window for the men and initially a two week woman
for the two window for the women, let's be flexible
around when that is. You know, we'd love it to
(04:10):
be in January. Is because we want this sort of
grass bank grounds during the heat of summer. But if
the black Caps are playing the Fourth Test against Australia,
you'd be you'd be absolutely idiotic to try and set
up a T twenty to start during that Test and
then say to I don't know okay, and Williamson or
Darryl Mitchell. Oh, by the way, you're not playing the
(04:32):
Fourth Test. I mean, nobody in their right mind would
set up a competition like that. In our discussions with
New Zealand Cricket, it's being you know, let's just sit
down and while we'd love that window, clearly we need
to be flexible. If you support this concept, we all
need to be flexible around start and end dates. There'll
be sometimes when you have ICC events where you can't
(04:53):
release your best players.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
No problem, we'll make that work.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
But let's work on a concept of trying to get
a full week window for the men and two week
window for the women if we can around that December
January period often as we can.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
It's just just frankly common.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Sense financially wise, and we've talked about this or around
the office about where the money is coming from. There's
nothing set in stone, is there yet? But there is
huge interest out there, is that right?
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Don Look.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
See the thing that surprised me, although Stephen Flemy told
me this on day one is you know, there has
never been more money involved in international cricket and there's
never been more money available for investment now now we
can stay we can stay away from that. We can say, look,
we'll stay in our in our little world, or we
(05:44):
can say, okay, in the case of T twenty, why
don't we look at the learnings from just about every
other developed cricketing country around the world who have set
up one of these leagues. Let's put the best from
each of those models and see if we can do
something really funky and fan friendly ourselves. And it's just
(06:04):
really hard to understand why we couldn't.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Why we can't.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
You know, I've been at point pains to point out that,
you know, international investment in our sport around our country
is good for the game. I mean, you won't get
a better example than AFC and football, where you know,
international money in the form of an incredibly generous American
has gone into AFC and it's done amazing things for
football in our country. So why wouldn't we look at
(06:32):
that in a cricket context. If we can make it work.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
You don't want to climb in I'm presuming and wreck
any commercial partnerships that New Zealand Cricket have already got
because this group is saying, hey, you it could take
away some finance through TV rights and the like as well,
this is this is not your desire.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Well yeah, with the rates's greatest respect, Again, why didn't
they ask us or even ask New Zealand Cricket, because
both we or New Zealand Cricket could have said that
that's not all the model that we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I mean, what we are talking about.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
As a four week clear window if we can get
in for the for the men's comp Super Smash is
not being broadcast, doesn't have a broadcast partner from next year,
so you know, and it's costing New Zealand Cricket, as
I understand it, an extraordinary amount of money at the moment.
So you know, our model says, look, we'll take that
competition and effectively private owners carry the cost of that
(07:29):
if you can give us this window and we'll run
this comp very much inconsistent with New Zealand's high performance
pathway and under those circumstances, will will it put at
risk New Zealand crickets commercial relationships And if it does,
they won't give us a license in order to expect
them to.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
So again it's just common sense.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
The did Light team have been engaged by the selling
cricket looking at the four possibilities, what the supersmash reform,
BBL involvement, the state's quo or private league proposals, what
engagement if you had with the LOUTE.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Well in terms of in z twenty, I've made it
clear to News on Cricket that we will happily talk
to Deloitte that at the end of the day, we
want NEWS on Cricket to run a good process and
hopefully come to the view that this is the best option,
and if they don't, we will respect whatever other options
they choose to take. As I understand that the major
associations in the Cricket Class Association, we're a little concerned
(08:29):
about Deloitte, I think perhaps around their terms of reference
and they're working through that. But as I understand that
they fully intend to engage with them as well now,
so hopefully that roadblock has been has been passed, So you're.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
All up for that to be completely You've transparent around
what you're doing. You'd encourage them to be looking at
this for the best for New Zealand cricket.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I mean our one concern is our polite request in
Landers don't take too long with that analysis, because if
we are a viable option and we want it to
be operational in January twenty seven, there's an awful lot
of planning required before then. So you know, we can't
take a three or six month process if you want
(09:13):
to be operational in January twenty seven. But if New
Zealand Cricket take that long, they take that long. You know,
at the end of the day, they are the guardians
of the game. It's their responsibility. I think this decision
could be made reasonably promptly if providing we.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Cooperate, which we will, but at the end of the day,
it's their call, not out.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And one last thing, and Dom McKinnon, thanks so much
for joining, is what is next from your point of view?
What has to happen now?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Well, two things.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
One, we need to keep working with New Zealand Cricket
and Deloitte to try and show that this is a
really viable option and hopefully get their support. In principle,
we certainly couldn't expect the license until you know, we're
further down the track. At the same time, we need
to now go back to potential investors and make sure
they're still excited by this concept, and I need to
(10:05):
make it clear to speculation about who owns us and
whatever you the reality is we don't have an owner,
we don't have a bank account, we don't have a cent.
We're all unpaid in our n Z twenty roles because
we're doing this because we think it's a great idea.
So we just need to run the almost a parallel process,
Darcy of working with New Zealand Cricket along the concept,
(10:27):
working with investors, and then hopefully we can achieve a
really nice intersection in the next few weeks. And if
we do, you know, we could have some great news
for cricket in the future.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Well you didn't get the letter, so you don't know
who co signed it. But what would you say to
these players that are that are showing concerns around the
direction of the game. You got a message for them?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Oh, that's a tough question. Look, I think they need
to back New Zealand Cricket. They need to back the
News Own Cricket board and the team who I'm sure
are acting in the best interests of the game, and.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
You know a lot of their concerns.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
And New z Own Cricket are analyzing really carefully, but
you know, the people involved in n Z twenty aren't
bad people. We are we genuinely think this is a
great idea, but we will respect it if ultimately New
zond cricket goes down another path. And all we all want,
I think, is you know, for the game to be
fizzling and firing in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
And on that and it is quite frankly when it
comes to Test cricket right now, what's going on and
there in the middle. We wish you the best. On McKennon,
thank you very much for joining us here on News Talks.
E being must appreciated.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Shees Dusty, thanks very much for more from Sports Talk.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Listen live to News Talks it'd be from seven pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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