December 11, 2025 • 12 mins
The future of domestic cricket in New Zealand is very much up in the air at the moment.
The proposed NZ20 league has the cricketing community divided, saying it will destroy the domestic game in New Zealand, while others seeing foreign investment crucial for the game.
Greg Barclay is a former chairman of the ICC and he joined D'Arcy to share his thoughts.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk Zed be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Plenty of drama at NZ set. It's like the major
sports here in a tierroa having a competition, so who
can make the biggest mess of their sport? Where New
Zealand and Rugby are leading from the front. Then, like
Netbull said, hold my drink and now cricket's going. The
year is not over yet. Try this chaos. So what
(00:33):
is best for the domestic color That's.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
What we're interested in.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
What happens the super smash. We're going to chat with
Greg Barkley. He knows the sport inside and out, we hope,
so former chair of the ICC, you're going to join
us now to discuss what he thinks is next for
domestic cricket and New Zealand. Greg, Greg, Greg, Greg, welcome
to the show. You'd know a little bit about the
(00:58):
the inner workings of international national cricket.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
I presume, yes, hi, Darcy, nice to speak again after
a period of time. That yeah, I sort of remember
most of what happened through that period of time, the
good and the bad.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It's changing quick and you know that during your time
the landscape is constantly moving. It's rather seismic if you would,
a lot of decisions for New Zealand cricket to make
domestic level right the way through the international level. What
do you think is the best path for New Zealand
cricket on a domestic level right now? Because this is
(01:35):
of course the big debate about what they do with
a super smash and so on and so forth. Is
there an ideal route through this?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
I think, as it has been mooted by a number
of the people that have been spoken to another only
heard what I've heard, So you know, my opinions is
that of another interested bystander. But I think that they've
got to do what the proposed letters, work through each
of the proposals, consider what's best for cricket in New
Zealand and you seeling cricket. It's something that does have
(02:05):
to involve you see in credit, which I think from
what I've heard is the intention have looked at all
the options and make it an informed decision in due courts.
So from what Don McKinnon was saying about this end
ziet T twenty proposal, it's exactly what they are intending
(02:25):
to do. And I know Don Weller work with him
a lot a lot of time from me. He's a
very commtent operator, so you know that that will be
the right approach. And as I said, the other thing
is that it does need to involve all parties, including
New Zealand Cricket, which they appear to be doing as well,
and in fact that I think the Working Committee or
the Establishment Committee as she has two of New Zealand
(02:47):
Credits directors on that committee.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
So that's absolutely the right approach.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
You know that the outcome will be the outcome once
I've considered the various pros and cons but it's probably
two things out of that. One is that this is
not a new concept. There are leagues in most for
member countries around the world and I think that we're
pretty much the exception now. And the second thing is
that on and off, since she was involved in a
working group when I was Chair of Northern Districts Cricket
(03:14):
in twenty ten to have a look at privatization of
domestic cricket in New Zealand, I led a committee when
I was on the New Zealand Board in twenty fourteen
along with David Cooper, was then head of Domestic Cricket
or general manager of domestic cricket, and we went through
the men's professional competitions. We decided that at that point
(03:35):
it's a step too far to privatize or to bring
in external investment. But we did revent the super smash,
you know, we created a protector window for it, participation
agreements in place, funded accordingly, and a number of other things.
So it's probably ten years on now and at time
(03:57):
time that it was given into the look for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
The biggest danger of privatizing the game at this level
selling the family jills, if you well, well, the first
shooks here, what do they need to be cautious of
as they move through this process?
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Well, I think there's a whole lot of issues, aren't there,
And most of them have been well discussed. That the
first is ensuring that there is a window for it,
that that window doesn't compromise the international program by lateral cricket. Secondly,
that it both protects and enhances the high performance opportunity
for the players, That it retains the very best players
(04:35):
within New Zealand, that it doesn't rub up or upset
other competitions to the extent that you creckets relationships.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Are harmed at all.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
And then, of course, as you say, on the commercial side,
it's making sure that whoever the investor is or the
investor parties are, that the right parties with the right
intensions for New Zealand cricket, because we don't want to
fall into the hands of a group or the party
of entities that would do anything to damage will run
(05:08):
contrary to the interests of cricket in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
If you rise above this, I like to look at
the ICC or b CCO, who is running this place.
With the ICC, Surely the owners is on them to
determine what the calendar looks like. I windows for franchise cricket,
windows for International Cricket, the Test Championship, the list goes on.
(05:31):
Because without that set in stone, it does make things
quite onerous on New Zealand Cricket to make a call
when they don't know where it's going to sit. This
is a difficult thing for them. So surely it does
sit further up the food chaine than just then.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Oh absolutely, I mean you're right.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
The single biggest existential issue that faces cricket as the calendar.
I'll talk to you and others about this for a
period time. It's it is a major issue for cricket.
You know, there is too much cricket being played all
around the world, with a proliferic of leagues that we've
got in front of us now, together with a pretty
(06:10):
pretty jammed international program. You know, they're more ICC events,
more teams, so they're taking longer, and of course you've
got your normal suite of international matches and series as well,
so you know it just doesn't fit. So you're dead right.
There has to be a better alignment of the calendar.
It would be great if it was the ICC, but
(06:31):
unfortunately the ICC's members jealous of guard the ability to
control that international calendar and the program, and of course
self interest always prevails. So yeah, there's no common good here.
It's what works best for each individual country. And as
you can imagine, when these things are negotiated, it turns
into years of absolute shamble, says. Everybody tries to grab
(06:55):
the best outcomes that they can for themselves, all the
while trying to maintain windows for their own domestic leagues,
which I guess it's a good thing all of the
leagues that are out there at the moment. Other domestic
arms of member boards. We haven't yet had what what
I guess would you'd commonly refer to as a rebel
league with private money trying to poach, you know, or
(07:20):
grab all the best plans around the world. So we're
not grappling with that. It's really not each year, but
right unravel that the puzzle around the calendar and things
will be a lot easier.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Is there a potential though, for that to occur, greg
for the rebel leagues to turn up with so much
money the players simply can't turn away and they could
cibosh everything by rolling straight over the top. Is it
a clear and present dangerous threat.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Or I think it's a genuine threat. You know, whether
that money comes out of the Middle East, you know,
the burgeoning sports markets around the Middle East, whether it's
a US.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Money, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
If they're sufficient money and they can afford to buy
the players, they could certainly set up, you know, a
leak that would sit outside of accepted, sanctioned competitions, and
you know, you only have to look at something like
golf to see what could happen in the disruption that
that causes.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
So yeah, absolutely it's a threat. At the moment, it's
not really.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Apparent, but I think that's something that should be considered
and it should be mitigate, it's for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
It's also dealing with the player loadings, and we've seen
that with New Zealand cricket and when we're losing fast
bawls and over first they don't last half an hour.
But when you've got a player who has got okay,
I can play this league in that league, but I
need to play some international cricket and I'll play a
bit of one day and I'll play a bit of
T twenty. Suddenly they are being labored with so much engagement.
(08:51):
It's not good for them either. And where they go
and where they choose to play their cricket have a
huge effect on what happens with the national body. So
they've got to be really considered. But they can't be
ragged into a pay battle, as we covered off before.
So this balance is ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Yeah, and I think that's a crucial sort of concept,
isn't It's a balance. So you're right, the ability of
the leading players is going to be tempered by what
physically what they can do through the course of the year.
You know, they just can't play all year round simply
(09:33):
from a physical point of view, just it's just impossible
for them.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
To do that.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
So they will start to pick and choose what they're doing.
And you can see that happening at the moment, you
know international correct, it has been compromised by players that
are looking to and through all the right reasons to
enhance their earning ability for the period of time they're playing.
I think one thing that's also worth throwing in here
(09:57):
is that and it probably get the heart of the
privatization issue as well, and you selling crackit at the
moment has a huge financial risk onsibility across the competitions
to fund those competitions, and my dad was probably five
six million dollars each year that was needed to run
these competitions. So if you can bring private investment in
(10:18):
and that's a that's a cost that using a credit
doesn't need to meet. Likewise, if the players can supplement
their incomes elsewhere, that's that's a check that New Zealand credit,
which which probably can't afford to do so it doesn't
have to fund so it does have the benefit of
actually retaining those athletes into the New Zealand system. For
for a longer period of time and making them available
(10:39):
so that you know, there is a lot of good
that comes out of these leagues and you know the
enhancement of the commercial opportunity. But as you say, the
balances is paramount here. You know, those those athletes have
to be looked after. And again it goes back to
alignment of those calendars, putting in periods of time where
players can have a break, they can play to the
(11:04):
to the maximum of their ability and the earning ability
without damaging themselves.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Do you have faith in the cricketing world, from the players,
to the international franchises, to the international game, to New
Zealand Cricket that they can actually all come together and
hammer something out, because what you're saying and how long
it's gone on for, I don't know if there is
actually a powerable solution to any of this. Greg it
(11:30):
could go on for a long time.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Yeah. Well, there's two sort of issues there, aren't there.
One is the leadership that's needed to better structure the
game internationally and to accommodate both the needs of the leagues,
the owners in the players. The second thing is at
a more not so much a macro level, but in
terms of their own competition, you know, is that the
(11:53):
right thing to do? And you know, I think we
also need to bear in mind one thing that the
status quo hasn't been the worst outcome from New Zealand.
You know, running it is a high performance, elite kind
of program has stood using to crackit. The Black Caps
and the White fans in good steade. You know, they've
consistently gone to the semis and finals of world events.
(12:15):
You know, they've performed really well. And that's without having
a commercialized, standalone invested in T twenty competition. So you
would say that the high performance component of our competition
has served its purpose and still dance.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
The question is do you do you need to do
more for.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Fan engagement and could you better commercialize the opportunity? And
I think that it's timely to have that conversation, and
clearly that's what all the parties is either intending to
do or are doing. So if that's happening, that's a
good outcome. And at the end of the day, from
a feasibility point of view, it will work or it
won't work if the right questions are asked and the
(12:54):
right decisions are made.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
For more from sports talk, listen lived and news talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talk Zed be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Plenty of drama at NZ set. It's like the major
sports here in a tierroa having a competition, so who
can make the biggest mess of their sport? Where New
Zealand and Rugby are leading from the front. Then, like
Netbull said, hold my drink and now cricket's going. The
year is not over yet. Try this chaos. So what
(00:33):
is best for the domestic color That's.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
What we're interested in.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
What happens the super smash. We're going to chat with
Greg Barkley. He knows the sport inside and out, we hope,
so former chair of the ICC, you're going to join
us now to discuss what he thinks is next for
domestic cricket and New Zealand. Greg, Greg, Greg, Greg, welcome
to the show. You'd know a little bit about the
(00:58):
the inner workings of international national cricket.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
I presume, yes, hi, Darcy, nice to speak again after
a period of time. That yeah, I sort of remember
most of what happened through that period of time, the
good and the bad.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It's changing quick and you know that during your time
the landscape is constantly moving. It's rather seismic if you would,
a lot of decisions for New Zealand cricket to make
domestic level right the way through the international level. What
do you think is the best path for New Zealand
cricket on a domestic level right now? Because this is
(01:35):
of course the big debate about what they do with
a super smash and so on and so forth. Is
there an ideal route through this?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
I think, as it has been mooted by a number
of the people that have been spoken to another only
heard what I've heard, So you know, my opinions is
that of another interested bystander. But I think that they've
got to do what the proposed letters, work through each
of the proposals, consider what's best for cricket in New
Zealand and you seeling cricket. It's something that does have
(02:05):
to involve you see in credit, which I think from
what I've heard is the intention have looked at all
the options and make it an informed decision in due courts.
So from what Don McKinnon was saying about this end
ziet T twenty proposal, it's exactly what they are intending
(02:25):
to do. And I know Don Weller work with him
a lot a lot of time from me. He's a
very commtent operator, so you know that that will be
the right approach. And as I said, the other thing
is that it does need to involve all parties, including
New Zealand Cricket, which they appear to be doing as well,
and in fact that I think the Working Committee or
the Establishment Committee as she has two of New Zealand
(02:47):
Credits directors on that committee.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
So that's absolutely the right approach.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
You know that the outcome will be the outcome once
I've considered the various pros and cons but it's probably
two things out of that. One is that this is
not a new concept. There are leagues in most for
member countries around the world and I think that we're
pretty much the exception now. And the second thing is
that on and off, since she was involved in a
working group when I was Chair of Northern Districts Cricket
(03:14):
in twenty ten to have a look at privatization of
domestic cricket in New Zealand, I led a committee when
I was on the New Zealand Board in twenty fourteen
along with David Cooper, was then head of Domestic Cricket
or general manager of domestic cricket, and we went through
the men's professional competitions. We decided that at that point
(03:35):
it's a step too far to privatize or to bring
in external investment. But we did revent the super smash,
you know, we created a protector window for it, participation
agreements in place, funded accordingly, and a number of other things.
So it's probably ten years on now and at time
(03:57):
time that it was given into the look for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
The biggest danger of privatizing the game at this level
selling the family jills, if you well, well, the first
shooks here, what do they need to be cautious of
as they move through this process?
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Well, I think there's a whole lot of issues, aren't there,
And most of them have been well discussed. That the
first is ensuring that there is a window for it,
that that window doesn't compromise the international program by lateral cricket. Secondly,
that it both protects and enhances the high performance opportunity
for the players, That it retains the very best players
(04:35):
within New Zealand, that it doesn't rub up or upset
other competitions to the extent that you creckets relationships.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Are harmed at all.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
And then, of course, as you say, on the commercial side,
it's making sure that whoever the investor is or the
investor parties are, that the right parties with the right
intensions for New Zealand cricket, because we don't want to
fall into the hands of a group or the party
of entities that would do anything to damage will run
(05:08):
contrary to the interests of cricket in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
If you rise above this, I like to look at
the ICC or b CCO, who is running this place.
With the ICC, Surely the owners is on them to
determine what the calendar looks like. I windows for franchise cricket,
windows for International Cricket, the Test Championship, the list goes on.
(05:31):
Because without that set in stone, it does make things
quite onerous on New Zealand Cricket to make a call
when they don't know where it's going to sit. This
is a difficult thing for them. So surely it does
sit further up the food chaine than just then.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Oh absolutely, I mean you're right.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
The single biggest existential issue that faces cricket as the calendar.
I'll talk to you and others about this for a
period time. It's it is a major issue for cricket.
You know, there is too much cricket being played all
around the world, with a proliferic of leagues that we've
got in front of us now, together with a pretty
(06:10):
pretty jammed international program. You know, they're more ICC events,
more teams, so they're taking longer, and of course you've
got your normal suite of international matches and series as well,
so you know it just doesn't fit. So you're dead right.
There has to be a better alignment of the calendar.
It would be great if it was the ICC, but
(06:31):
unfortunately the ICC's members jealous of guard the ability to
control that international calendar and the program, and of course
self interest always prevails. So yeah, there's no common good here.
It's what works best for each individual country. And as
you can imagine, when these things are negotiated, it turns
into years of absolute shamble, says. Everybody tries to grab
(06:55):
the best outcomes that they can for themselves, all the
while trying to maintain windows for their own domestic leagues,
which I guess it's a good thing all of the
leagues that are out there at the moment. Other domestic
arms of member boards. We haven't yet had what what
I guess would you'd commonly refer to as a rebel
league with private money trying to poach, you know, or
(07:20):
grab all the best plans around the world. So we're
not grappling with that. It's really not each year, but
right unravel that the puzzle around the calendar and things
will be a lot easier.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Is there a potential though, for that to occur, greg
for the rebel leagues to turn up with so much
money the players simply can't turn away and they could
cibosh everything by rolling straight over the top. Is it
a clear and present dangerous threat.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Or I think it's a genuine threat. You know, whether
that money comes out of the Middle East, you know,
the burgeoning sports markets around the Middle East, whether it's
a US.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Money, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
If they're sufficient money and they can afford to buy
the players, they could certainly set up, you know, a
leak that would sit outside of accepted, sanctioned competitions, and
you know, you only have to look at something like
golf to see what could happen in the disruption that
that causes.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
So yeah, absolutely it's a threat. At the moment, it's
not really.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Apparent, but I think that's something that should be considered
and it should be mitigate, it's for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
It's also dealing with the player loadings, and we've seen
that with New Zealand cricket and when we're losing fast
bawls and over first they don't last half an hour.
But when you've got a player who has got okay,
I can play this league in that league, but I
need to play some international cricket and I'll play a
bit of one day and I'll play a bit of
T twenty. Suddenly they are being labored with so much engagement.
(08:51):
It's not good for them either. And where they go
and where they choose to play their cricket have a
huge effect on what happens with the national body. So
they've got to be really considered. But they can't be
ragged into a pay battle, as we covered off before.
So this balance is ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Yeah, and I think that's a crucial sort of concept,
isn't It's a balance. So you're right, the ability of
the leading players is going to be tempered by what
physically what they can do through the course of the year.
You know, they just can't play all year round simply
(09:33):
from a physical point of view, just it's just impossible
for them.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
To do that.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
So they will start to pick and choose what they're doing.
And you can see that happening at the moment, you
know international correct, it has been compromised by players that
are looking to and through all the right reasons to
enhance their earning ability for the period of time they're playing.
I think one thing that's also worth throwing in here
(09:57):
is that and it probably get the heart of the
privatization issue as well, and you selling crackit at the
moment has a huge financial risk onsibility across the competitions
to fund those competitions, and my dad was probably five
six million dollars each year that was needed to run
these competitions. So if you can bring private investment in
(10:18):
and that's a that's a cost that using a credit
doesn't need to meet. Likewise, if the players can supplement
their incomes elsewhere, that's that's a check that New Zealand credit,
which which probably can't afford to do so it doesn't
have to fund so it does have the benefit of
actually retaining those athletes into the New Zealand system. For
for a longer period of time and making them available
(10:39):
so that you know, there is a lot of good
that comes out of these leagues and you know the
enhancement of the commercial opportunity. But as you say, the
balances is paramount here. You know, those those athletes have
to be looked after. And again it goes back to
alignment of those calendars, putting in periods of time where
players can have a break, they can play to the
(11:04):
to the maximum of their ability and the earning ability
without damaging themselves.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Do you have faith in the cricketing world, from the players,
to the international franchises, to the international game, to New
Zealand Cricket that they can actually all come together and
hammer something out, because what you're saying and how long
it's gone on for, I don't know if there is
actually a powerable solution to any of this. Greg it
(11:30):
could go on for a long time.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Yeah. Well, there's two sort of issues there, aren't there.
One is the leadership that's needed to better structure the
game internationally and to accommodate both the needs of the leagues,
the owners in the players. The second thing is at
a more not so much a macro level, but in
terms of their own competition, you know, is that the
(11:53):
right thing to do? And you know, I think we
also need to bear in mind one thing that the
status quo hasn't been the worst outcome from New Zealand.
You know, running it is a high performance, elite kind
of program has stood using to crackit. The Black Caps
and the White fans in good steade. You know, they've
consistently gone to the semis and finals of world events.
(12:15):
You know, they've performed really well. And that's without having
a commercialized, standalone invested in T twenty competition. So you
would say that the high performance component of our competition
has served its purpose and still dance.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
The question is do you do you need to do
more for.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Fan engagement and could you better commercialize the opportunity? And
I think that it's timely to have that conversation, and
clearly that's what all the parties is either intending to
do or are doing. So if that's happening, that's a
good outcome. And at the end of the day, from
a feasibility point of view, it will work or it
won't work if the right questions are asked and the
(12:54):
right decisions are made.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
For more from sports talk, listen lived and news talks.
They'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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