July 28, 2025 • 11 mins
Jennifer Erickson, senior fellow with the American Association of Scientists, spotlights a recent congressional hearing and multiple media reports on the mishandling of organ donor patients by a procurement organization called Network of Hope.
Click to listen to this WHAS interview with Terry Meiners
Click to listen to this WHAS interview with Terry Meiners
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Terry Miners here on news radio eight forty WHS. I
like to reconnect with old friends. I talked to this
person sometime back, a senior fellow with a Federation of
American Scientists. Hello, Jennifer Ericson, Jerry, it's good to speak
with you again. Where are you in Washington DC?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Washington DC? But I'm glad to be talking to you
and people in Kentucky considering what's.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Happening exactly right. Yeah, I know last week a report
was released again too. There's been many media accounts as
well regarding Oregon procurement organizations opos. The one here in
Kentucky's called Network for Hope. Is that the only one,
Jennifer here in the commonwealth.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
That is the only one. And I want to be
really clear. They are dangerous and they are corrupt.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Well, I mean what I read in that New York
Times piece was just frightening, chilling. People, you know, with
good intentions, have somebody who's near death and sometimes they're
not really dead. And the Oregon harvesting begins. Tell me
more about how we've gotten this far off the rails.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, you know, Terry, You're right. There was a big
hearing last week here in Washington, DC. It was a
bipartisan and you know how few things are bipartisan these days.
And I want to give real thanks to Kentucky's own
Congressman Brett Guthrie, the chairman of the Congressional Committee, who
hosted the hearing. But what they found and what they
were talking about was, as members of Congress kept saying,
(01:34):
more fitting of a horror movie than anything you would
imagine happening in an American hospital. And I'm just going
to read you a couple of headlines. These were on
the front pages of the New York Times. Here's one
doctors were preparing to remove their organs then they woke up.
Here's another one, just from a week ago. People across
the US, and that really focused on Kentucky, which I'll
(01:56):
come back to, have endured rushed or premature attempts to
remove their organs. Some were gasping, crying, or showing other
signs of life. So now I'm gonna answer your question,
how did we get there? Well, in Kentucky, there is
one organ Procurement Organization or OPO. Just think of it
as a federal organ contractor something you're something your listeners
(02:17):
pay for and they are the group that is supposed
to show up to hospitals around the state and honor
the organ donation wishes of generous Kentuckians and their family members,
people who have been in our accidents, who've had strokes,
who've had overdoses, you know, some trauma that means they're
(02:38):
not going to make it out of the hospital, but
they are their family wants someone else to be able
to live because of organ donations. So so far, so good, right,
that's generous, that's Americans at their best, right. But the
problem is the government actually put out a report in
black and white about just how dangerous the Kentucky organ
(02:59):
conctor is. And this all kicked off with a story
about a young man from Richmond, Kentucky, TJ. Hoover now TJ. Hoover,
in twenty twenty one, had an overdose a few months
after his mother died. He was really struggling and he
went in and his family was told he wasn't going
to recover. So that was obviously traumatic for them, and
(03:21):
they wanted something good to come out of this. They
knew how generous TJ was and they agreed to organ donation.
But what happened next was a nightmare. TJ wasn't dead.
In fact, when he was being prepared for organ donation,
he woke up. He started crying, thrashing around on the table.
(03:43):
There's records showing that hospital staff were saying he was alive,
that they thought this was and this is a quote
human euthanasia. You know what happened? The organ contractor kept going.
They didn't tell TJ's family he kept waking up. In fact,
PJ then received sentinel and rocronium, which is a paralytic. Now, Terry,
(04:06):
if you or I received sentinel or rocronium, we could
look dead, right, we would be paralyzed or we would
be compromised. And there's even a video on TikTok because
of course there is of TJ being wheeled out on
the way to the operating room and his family huddled
around him to say goodbye. And TJ woke up a
second time, started crying, holding his sister's hand, and when
(04:31):
she was asking what was going on, she was told biness,
just reflexes. Ignore that, and then the family was told
to stop recording, which they did because a lot of
us are compliant around people with white coats. Right, so
he's wheeled into the operating room a third time. When
he was moved from the gurney to the table to
have his organs harvested removed from his body, he woke
(04:53):
up a third time. He started thrashing around, pulling his
knees to his chest, trying to pull out his own
breathing to the surgeon or the doctor rather who's there,
called it inhumane and unethical, and she tried to stop
the procedure. And here's the wildest part. The Kentucky organ
contractor wanted to keep going to see if any other
(05:14):
doctor was willing to declare TJ dead and take his organs. Now,
that happened three years ago. Why are we talking about
it now? Because a brave frontline worker in Kentucky, Nikki Martin,
wouldn't live with it. She saw the videos on TikTok.
She knew what TJ had been through and his family,
and she called DJ's sister, who's now his twenty four
(05:36):
hour caregiver because he has some pretty severe issues.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
After that, that's the part we haven't mentioned. TJ is
still alive after all this.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, he's alive and cared for by his sister, Donna Rorr.
Because of everything that happened to him and appoy you
something that keeps me up at night. PJ has some
grief of the after effects of what happened to him,
but one is it's heard a short term memory. So
every time a journalist comes to talk about what happened,
(06:10):
every time law enforcement and credit to Attorney General Russell Coleman,
who's launched an investigation into just how dangerous this is
and this organ contractor is. Every time law enforcement or
journalist leaves, TJ turns to his sister Donna and says,
why did they try and kill me? And she has
to explain it to them all over again. Now here's
(06:31):
the craziest part. This came out last September in a
congressional hearing. Two days after it came out in public,
the Gray frontline worker Nikki Martin, who reported it, she
was fired of course. Then yeah, and then after that
the federal government, part of the Department of Health and
(06:52):
Human Services did a report and they found what happened
to TJ is happening every single week. Yeah, that's Kentucky.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
That's all I've seen in these other news stories is
there's all kinds of different cases. There's one about a
woman they start sawing her chest plate and then she's
still alive. It's just so, this is, like you said,
it's like a horror film. So how is it that
we have Network for Hope as the only organ procurement
organization in Kentucky. What's what's the next move for the
(07:22):
public to do to oversee this.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Well, what has to happen is the federal government, the
Department of Health and Human Services, has to remove them
right now. Network for Hope is a monopoly contractor any
for any of your listeners, God forbid, they are their
loved one goes into a hospital and there's a chance
they might not make it. It is Network for Hope
(07:48):
that gets called. And in the government's report that was released,
they found twenty nine percent of cases in Kentucky had
and this is a quote concerning features, including twenty one
percent which weren't conducive for organ donation. In other words,
they weren't dead. And so this is happening with mind
(08:08):
blowing regularity. And the only thing that's going to keep
people safe is this. Secretary Kennedy, the Secretary of Health
and Human Services here in Washington, DC, removes Network for
Hope it's something he can do. It's something the federal
government has never done. But good night, Moon, Like, how
many more people have to go through what TJ and
(08:30):
his family went through?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
What do people say? What do people here do? Call
the congressman's office or Kennedy's office.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, call the congressman's office. You know, I mentioned Congressman
Guthrie who's been so great. Congressman James Comer, he's been amazing.
He's the chair of the powerful House Oversight Committee, also
a Kentuckian who's raised concerns about this organ contractor. And
you know Senators Ran Paul and Mitch McConnell. They might
not agree on much these days, but they agree on this.
(08:59):
They been trying to reform the system too. And so
I know your listeners have more on their plate to
worry about. But this is dangerous and the only thing
that'll fix it is when Secretary Kennedy actually fires this
one corrupt and dangerous contractor and assign someone who isn't
(09:19):
going to lie to families and torture people to the state.
I mean, the solution is remarkably easy, right, but we
have to remember every day it doesn't happen your listeners
are at risk.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
The way it reads is that people are in the
latter stage of life, and then this company is going
in and pushing a way to get them to hurry
up and die so that they can harvest the organs
because there's a short time window for that to happen.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yep, that's exactly what's happening, and what the government's own
report says is they're pushing around hospital staff. They especially
in smaller and rural hospitals, they are trying to dictate
they are That's what happened with TJ. Hoover. Right. Even
when doctors and other frontline workers speak up, then the
(10:07):
organ contractor keeps pushing and families can't protect their loved
ones if they don't know what's going on. I mean,
it's wild that they would even have to, But I
just want to be really clear. This isn't complicated. This
is you know, I don't want folks to get lost
in the acronyms or I didn't even know there were
organ contractors. This is people they pay who are going
(10:31):
to turn up at the hospital at the worst day
of a family's life, right because the loved one has
been in some tragedy and they might lie to them,
they might mislead them, they might push around a doctor
or encourage drugs that could mask their neurological conditions. That's
as scary as it gets, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
All Right, we got to leave it there, Jennifer. I
really appreciate the insights.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Thank you so much, Really appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Great talking to you, Jennifer Ericson, who is a Senior
Fellow
Terry Miners here on news radio eight forty WHS. I
like to reconnect with old friends. I talked to this
person sometime back, a senior fellow with a Federation of
American Scientists. Hello, Jennifer Ericson, Jerry, it's good to speak
with you again. Where are you in Washington DC?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Washington DC? But I'm glad to be talking to you
and people in Kentucky considering what's.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Happening exactly right. Yeah, I know last week a report
was released again too. There's been many media accounts as
well regarding Oregon procurement organizations opos. The one here in
Kentucky's called Network for Hope. Is that the only one,
Jennifer here in the commonwealth.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
That is the only one. And I want to be
really clear. They are dangerous and they are corrupt.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Well, I mean what I read in that New York
Times piece was just frightening, chilling. People, you know, with
good intentions, have somebody who's near death and sometimes they're
not really dead. And the Oregon harvesting begins. Tell me
more about how we've gotten this far off the rails.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, you know, Terry, You're right. There was a big
hearing last week here in Washington, DC. It was a
bipartisan and you know how few things are bipartisan these days.
And I want to give real thanks to Kentucky's own
Congressman Brett Guthrie, the chairman of the Congressional Committee, who
hosted the hearing. But what they found and what they
were talking about was, as members of Congress kept saying,
(01:34):
more fitting of a horror movie than anything you would
imagine happening in an American hospital. And I'm just going
to read you a couple of headlines. These were on
the front pages of the New York Times. Here's one
doctors were preparing to remove their organs then they woke up.
Here's another one, just from a week ago. People across
the US, and that really focused on Kentucky, which I'll
(01:56):
come back to, have endured rushed or premature attempts to
remove their organs. Some were gasping, crying, or showing other
signs of life. So now I'm gonna answer your question,
how did we get there? Well, in Kentucky, there is
one organ Procurement Organization or OPO. Just think of it
as a federal organ contractor something you're something your listeners
(02:17):
pay for and they are the group that is supposed
to show up to hospitals around the state and honor
the organ donation wishes of generous Kentuckians and their family members,
people who have been in our accidents, who've had strokes,
who've had overdoses, you know, some trauma that means they're
(02:38):
not going to make it out of the hospital, but
they are their family wants someone else to be able
to live because of organ donations. So so far, so good, right,
that's generous, that's Americans at their best, right. But the
problem is the government actually put out a report in
black and white about just how dangerous the Kentucky organ
(02:59):
conctor is. And this all kicked off with a story
about a young man from Richmond, Kentucky, TJ. Hoover now TJ. Hoover,
in twenty twenty one, had an overdose a few months
after his mother died. He was really struggling and he
went in and his family was told he wasn't going
to recover. So that was obviously traumatic for them, and
(03:21):
they wanted something good to come out of this. They
knew how generous TJ was and they agreed to organ donation.
But what happened next was a nightmare. TJ wasn't dead.
In fact, when he was being prepared for organ donation,
he woke up. He started crying, thrashing around on the table.
(03:43):
There's records showing that hospital staff were saying he was alive,
that they thought this was and this is a quote
human euthanasia. You know what happened? The organ contractor kept going.
They didn't tell TJ's family he kept waking up. In fact,
PJ then received sentinel and rocronium, which is a paralytic. Now, Terry,
(04:06):
if you or I received sentinel or rocronium, we could
look dead, right, we would be paralyzed or we would
be compromised. And there's even a video on TikTok because
of course there is of TJ being wheeled out on
the way to the operating room and his family huddled
around him to say goodbye. And TJ woke up a
second time, started crying, holding his sister's hand, and when
(04:31):
she was asking what was going on, she was told biness,
just reflexes. Ignore that, and then the family was told
to stop recording, which they did because a lot of
us are compliant around people with white coats. Right, so
he's wheeled into the operating room a third time. When
he was moved from the gurney to the table to
have his organs harvested removed from his body, he woke
(04:53):
up a third time. He started thrashing around, pulling his
knees to his chest, trying to pull out his own
breathing to the surgeon or the doctor rather who's there,
called it inhumane and unethical, and she tried to stop
the procedure. And here's the wildest part. The Kentucky organ
contractor wanted to keep going to see if any other
(05:14):
doctor was willing to declare TJ dead and take his organs. Now,
that happened three years ago. Why are we talking about
it now? Because a brave frontline worker in Kentucky, Nikki Martin,
wouldn't live with it. She saw the videos on TikTok.
She knew what TJ had been through and his family,
and she called DJ's sister, who's now his twenty four
(05:36):
hour caregiver because he has some pretty severe issues.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
After that, that's the part we haven't mentioned. TJ is
still alive after all this.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, he's alive and cared for by his sister, Donna Rorr.
Because of everything that happened to him and appoy you
something that keeps me up at night. PJ has some
grief of the after effects of what happened to him,
but one is it's heard a short term memory. So
every time a journalist comes to talk about what happened,
(06:10):
every time law enforcement and credit to Attorney General Russell Coleman,
who's launched an investigation into just how dangerous this is
and this organ contractor is. Every time law enforcement or
journalist leaves, TJ turns to his sister Donna and says,
why did they try and kill me? And she has
to explain it to them all over again. Now here's
(06:31):
the craziest part. This came out last September in a
congressional hearing. Two days after it came out in public,
the Gray frontline worker Nikki Martin, who reported it, she
was fired of course. Then yeah, and then after that
the federal government, part of the Department of Health and
(06:52):
Human Services did a report and they found what happened
to TJ is happening every single week. Yeah, that's Kentucky.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
That's all I've seen in these other news stories is
there's all kinds of different cases. There's one about a
woman they start sawing her chest plate and then she's
still alive. It's just so, this is, like you said,
it's like a horror film. So how is it that
we have Network for Hope as the only organ procurement
organization in Kentucky. What's what's the next move for the
(07:22):
public to do to oversee this.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Well, what has to happen is the federal government, the
Department of Health and Human Services, has to remove them
right now. Network for Hope is a monopoly contractor any
for any of your listeners, God forbid, they are their
loved one goes into a hospital and there's a chance
they might not make it. It is Network for Hope
(07:48):
that gets called. And in the government's report that was released,
they found twenty nine percent of cases in Kentucky had
and this is a quote concerning features, including twenty one
percent which weren't conducive for organ donation. In other words,
they weren't dead. And so this is happening with mind
(08:08):
blowing regularity. And the only thing that's going to keep
people safe is this. Secretary Kennedy, the Secretary of Health
and Human Services here in Washington, DC, removes Network for
Hope it's something he can do. It's something the federal
government has never done. But good night, Moon, Like, how
many more people have to go through what TJ and
(08:30):
his family went through?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
What do people say? What do people here do? Call
the congressman's office or Kennedy's office.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, call the congressman's office. You know, I mentioned Congressman
Guthrie who's been so great. Congressman James Comer, he's been amazing.
He's the chair of the powerful House Oversight Committee, also
a Kentuckian who's raised concerns about this organ contractor. And
you know Senators Ran Paul and Mitch McConnell. They might
not agree on much these days, but they agree on this.
(08:59):
They been trying to reform the system too. And so
I know your listeners have more on their plate to
worry about. But this is dangerous and the only thing
that'll fix it is when Secretary Kennedy actually fires this
one corrupt and dangerous contractor and assign someone who isn't
(09:19):
going to lie to families and torture people to the state.
I mean, the solution is remarkably easy, right, but we
have to remember every day it doesn't happen your listeners
are at risk.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
The way it reads is that people are in the
latter stage of life, and then this company is going
in and pushing a way to get them to hurry
up and die so that they can harvest the organs
because there's a short time window for that to happen.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yep, that's exactly what's happening, and what the government's own
report says is they're pushing around hospital staff. They especially
in smaller and rural hospitals, they are trying to dictate
they are That's what happened with TJ. Hoover. Right. Even
when doctors and other frontline workers speak up, then the
(10:07):
organ contractor keeps pushing and families can't protect their loved
ones if they don't know what's going on. I mean,
it's wild that they would even have to, But I
just want to be really clear. This isn't complicated. This
is you know, I don't want folks to get lost
in the acronyms or I didn't even know there were
organ contractors. This is people they pay who are going
(10:31):
to turn up at the hospital at the worst day
of a family's life, right because the loved one has
been in some tragedy and they might lie to them,
they might mislead them, they might push around a doctor
or encourage drugs that could mask their neurological conditions. That's
as scary as it gets, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
All Right, we got to leave it there, Jennifer. I
really appreciate the insights.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Thank you so much, Really appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Great talking to you, Jennifer Ericson, who is a Senior
Fellow
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