September 18, 2024 • 12 mins
Zach Meiners, the President and Creative Director at Chronicle Cinema who put out the documentary film "Conversion", talked about his experience with conversion therapy and the executive order signed by Governor Beshear to ban it in the Commonwealth of Kentucky...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think the majority of America does not realize that
conversion therapy actually exists. It's still alive and well and everywhere.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
That is one of the speakers in the film called Conversion.
The person who put that film together happens to be
my nephew. His name is Zach Miners. Hey, Zach, welcome back, nephew.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hello, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Well, I saw you all over the news. I've seen
you all over the news today. You were standing behind
the governor, Governor Andy Basheer here in Kentucky, as he
signed a ban on state and federal funds being used
for conversion therapy. You told your own story, you told
you let other people tell their stories in Conversion, your
(00:43):
film that you put together. By the way, where is
that film available now, Zach?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
You can watch it on most streaming platforms, but Amazon
Prime is where we're sending a lot of people, and
you can watch it there. Just search for Conversion. And
it came out a few months ago, June twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We don't know how far the governor's ban today actually
goes to thwart conversion therapy. There are pockets of stoppage
in Kentucky, for instance, here in Louisville local band. But
I want to know how you felt standing there today
watching the governor's sign that executive order.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah. Absolutely, today's executive order was amazing. It was really
an honor to be invited and very surreal driving to
Frankfurt this morning. And so many people have spoken out
and shared their stories, and for me, you know, this
isn't a partisan issue. This is about protecting kids from
a harmful practice. And there are those who would say
(01:43):
that it's you know, infringing on religious rights and things
of that nature. But you know, we're not forcing anything
on anyone. We're protecting kids from a practice that is
deemed to be harmful. And one thing that I have
learned a lot about Kentucky is living here my whole life,
is that you know, Kentuckians have each other's back. They
help each other. I know parents don't want to harm
(02:05):
their kids. And in the same way that Kentuckians come
together after a tornado or a flood, you know, we
always unify behind those hardships. And we have heard from
hundreds and hundreds of survivors across the state who have
talked about how harmful this practice is, and so it's
about protecting that from happening to other people, and that's
(02:26):
something that hopefully all Kentuckians can get behind.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
You did a lot of compelling interviews in your film Conversion,
with people who were advocates and people who had been
harmed by conversion therapy, and it's not necessarily religiously driven.
Sometimes it's just people with that particular mindset that they're
going to if you will pray the gay away or
(02:50):
absolutely or transform someone from who they are genuinely into
someone they want them to be, is that the basic premise?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean conversion therapy takes a lot of
different paths and a lot of different methods are used,
but at the end of the day, it's important to
send the message that you know who you are is okay.
You don't have to change who you are, and it
is harmful to try to change who you are based
(03:21):
on who you love or your gender identity. And so
those things are are very important and important messages to
send our youth today and messages that I wish I
had received more of in my childhood as well.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I'm your godfather. I was unaware of the conversion therapy
part of your life that was that was steered through church, right.
I wish I would have known and been able to
talk with you earlier about this. You and I have
had great conversations since.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
But but yeah, no, I mean a lot of people
didn't A lot of people didn't know, and a lot
of people also will say like, oh, well were you
forced into this? And when you are part of a
church or religious community, that is your whole world. You
don't really know of anything outside of that. And I
didn't either, So I wasn't forced into conversion therapy, even
though I was put into conversion therapy at fourteen, but
(04:14):
I thought I was just going to therapy. I didn't
see it as and I had a very otherwise loving childhood.
You know, I have an amazing family, as you know
in your attestament to that, and I know that my
parents loved me very very much, and they you know,
my dad said, if you had a heart problem, I
would have taken me to the best cardiologist, and it's
(04:35):
he saw it at the time as the same way.
And I think that's an important distinction to make, is
that you know these parents are trying to do what's
best for them, but you know it's finding out that
you know, okay, that this method or this quote unquote
practice is not based in anything, and it doesn't change
(04:56):
someone's sexual orientation. It causes so many other issues in
someone's life, whether that's through shame and then relating back
to PTSD and depression, suicidal ideation. And so I consider
myself lucky to be called a survivor because so many
people have not survived going through this practice. And I
(05:16):
also consider myself very lucky that I do have such
an amazing support system that I was able to get
through that and now come out on the other side
and have a platform to be able to tell my
story and hopefully make some change and help the world
as well.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
How are you now in terms of obviously, at fourteen
years old, you said you just sort of went on
into this like a ride in an amusement park, not
knowing exactly what was ahead. But now that you are
a grown person, you're in your thirties, you're able to
reflect on this. Do you feel like the shame and
the other things that became a part of your story
(05:56):
have been able to just melt away?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
You know, kids are really impressionable, and that's why it's
so important to protect them, and you know, we're not
trying to force any ideology on anyone, and I think
that is an important distinction to make. And I know
that now as an adult, those messages they go deep
that you hear as a kid. You know, we all
(06:20):
have things that you know, a lot of messages and
morals of our parents and others put into us that
are really amazing things as kids. But then there's also
all these other, you know, things that happen that we
get along the way, and so those things were very deep,
and there's still something that I have to actively work
to combat in my life now. And you know, it's
(06:41):
been someone told me today because I said fourteen and
I'm thirty four. That was twenty years ago. I was like, wow,
that time in some cases supplies by, but you know,
there are definitely still impacts of it today. But I
am very thankful for my for my family, and also
for my chosen family and friends and others who have
supported me along the way, and uh, because I definitely
(07:03):
wouldn't be here without without them and without their support
today and it was just it was amazing to be
able to celebrate that today and to have Governor Anebusher's
leadership and uh stepping forward and doing something that we
couldn't get through the legislature dropout despite many drives and
having a lot of partisan support for those bills, but
(07:27):
you know, we could never even get them to bring
it to vote. So it was Today was a big
day and I'm very thankful for the you know, small
part that I was able to play in and helping
with that, and you know, the many other survivors who
have come forward and shared their stories along with you know,
(07:48):
Tanner Mobile and the band Conversion Therapy Kentucky and Trevor
Project and Chris Hartman with the Fairness Campaign. There's so
many people as well as other survivors like Dustin Rayburn
who's in our documentary and others who have Brandon Long
is another one who is there today. Just everyone. It's
(08:08):
been such a group effort to raise awareness about this
and today was a great day and a milestone. For sure.
There's definitely more work to be done, but this executive
order is important and a great day for Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
There is some stark push back out of some of
those legislators that you were referencing, and I guess that
once the legislature convenes again early next year, that maybe
this issue is going to come up again. One of
them is Representative Josh Callaway, who said, pledged rather quote
to file legislation on day one to stop this governor
from pushing his harmful, far left agenda on struggling kids.
(08:47):
How do you, as a gay person respond to what
that legislator said.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I was one of those struggling kids, and I wish
I'd be happy to sit down and talk with him.
But you know, I was one of those struggling kids.
I tried. You know, I went through the practice. I
did everything that I was told to do for those
four years, and I stayed in that world trying to
combat it for another, you know, eight nine years, and
I did everything, and it drove me to I wouldn't
(09:20):
be alive today had I not accepted the help of
actual therapists. And I am grateful for them and for
their support and as well as the support of many
others in my community that have helped me get through
those things. But people who say that, you know, this
(09:40):
is important to be able to guide or direct kids,
you know, kids are you know, everyone should have the
right to believe whatever they want, and we're not. No
one's saying that they shouldn't. But a kid should not
be forced or told that you have to go do this,
And at fourteen, you can't make that decision for yourself.
And so that's why this is important, and that's why
(10:03):
you know, I believe that I know to what we
did today will protect and save lives in Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Well, there are a lot of people in your movie
who make some amazing claims about their own struggles and
some of the therapists who may not have had the
best of intentions anyway, including your own story. So I
just I'm going to encourage people to just watch it
conversionmovie dot COM's website where you can get the trailer
(10:31):
and learn more. And then, as you said, Zach will
just lead people to the various platforms, but Amazon Prime first.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah. Absolutely, And you know, again, the last thing I
would say is just that you know, it's so important
to get word out there, and I know that there's
people who, you know, everything is so politicized and people,
you know, want to jump on something, and this really
I would just encourage people to listen, to talk to
(11:01):
someone who maybe has been through it, and just you know,
be open to maybe challenging your perceptions a little bit.
And you know, this is not about an agenda forcing
anything on anyone or putting information in front of anyone.
This is about stopping licensed practitioners from doing a practice
that has proven to be harmful to kids. And you know,
(11:23):
it's still you know, it's not infringing on pastors' rights
to counsel anyone, and it's you know, I wish the
laws could go further, but we do have religious freedom
in this country and I think that's important as well.
So yeah, absolutely, But for the kids out there, it's
just important to know that you're loved and you're valued
(11:46):
no matter who you love.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
So you are loved in our family. I'll tell you
that much, Zach, And.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
You know that I do know that, and.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
That never changes. I love you, nephew and proud of you.
And will just send pep again to the website conversionmovie
dot com. They can get the trailer there, and I
just think it's it's a great educational piece for people
to take in and like you said, just sit back
and with an open mind and say, oh, I hadn't
thought about it that way. So thanks absolutely, thanks for
(12:16):
sharing your story, and we'll see you again at the
next family event.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I'm good to see that, all right, brother, all right.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
At Zachminer's conversionmovie dot com, that's something he put together
to tell not only his own story, but those of
several other folks, and it is it'll get your mind
swirling into thinking, Wow, I hadn't considered that. It's always
a good phrase for anybody to embrace. I hadn't considered that.
But you learn something today and that's always good. Coming
(12:43):
right back on news radio eight forty whas
I think the majority of America does not realize that
conversion therapy actually exists. It's still alive and well and everywhere.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
That is one of the speakers in the film called Conversion.
The person who put that film together happens to be
my nephew. His name is Zach Miners. Hey, Zach, welcome back, nephew.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hello, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Well, I saw you all over the news. I've seen
you all over the news today. You were standing behind
the governor, Governor Andy Basheer here in Kentucky, as he
signed a ban on state and federal funds being used
for conversion therapy. You told your own story, you told
you let other people tell their stories in Conversion, your
(00:43):
film that you put together. By the way, where is
that film available now, Zach?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
You can watch it on most streaming platforms, but Amazon
Prime is where we're sending a lot of people, and
you can watch it there. Just search for Conversion. And
it came out a few months ago, June twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We don't know how far the governor's ban today actually
goes to thwart conversion therapy. There are pockets of stoppage
in Kentucky, for instance, here in Louisville local band. But
I want to know how you felt standing there today
watching the governor's sign that executive order.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah. Absolutely, today's executive order was amazing. It was really
an honor to be invited and very surreal driving to
Frankfurt this morning. And so many people have spoken out
and shared their stories, and for me, you know, this
isn't a partisan issue. This is about protecting kids from
a harmful practice. And there are those who would say
(01:43):
that it's you know, infringing on religious rights and things
of that nature. But you know, we're not forcing anything
on anyone. We're protecting kids from a practice that is
deemed to be harmful. And one thing that I have
learned a lot about Kentucky is living here my whole life,
is that you know, Kentuckians have each other's back. They
help each other. I know parents don't want to harm
(02:05):
their kids. And in the same way that Kentuckians come
together after a tornado or a flood, you know, we
always unify behind those hardships. And we have heard from
hundreds and hundreds of survivors across the state who have
talked about how harmful this practice is, and so it's
about protecting that from happening to other people, and that's
(02:26):
something that hopefully all Kentuckians can get behind.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
You did a lot of compelling interviews in your film Conversion,
with people who were advocates and people who had been
harmed by conversion therapy, and it's not necessarily religiously driven.
Sometimes it's just people with that particular mindset that they're
going to if you will pray the gay away or
(02:50):
absolutely or transform someone from who they are genuinely into
someone they want them to be, is that the basic premise?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean conversion therapy takes a lot of
different paths and a lot of different methods are used,
but at the end of the day, it's important to
send the message that you know who you are is okay.
You don't have to change who you are, and it
is harmful to try to change who you are based
(03:21):
on who you love or your gender identity. And so
those things are are very important and important messages to
send our youth today and messages that I wish I
had received more of in my childhood as well.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I'm your godfather. I was unaware of the conversion therapy
part of your life that was that was steered through church, right.
I wish I would have known and been able to
talk with you earlier about this. You and I have
had great conversations since.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
But but yeah, no, I mean a lot of people
didn't A lot of people didn't know, and a lot
of people also will say like, oh, well were you
forced into this? And when you are part of a
church or religious community, that is your whole world. You
don't really know of anything outside of that. And I
didn't either, So I wasn't forced into conversion therapy, even
though I was put into conversion therapy at fourteen, but
(04:14):
I thought I was just going to therapy. I didn't
see it as and I had a very otherwise loving childhood.
You know, I have an amazing family, as you know
in your attestament to that, and I know that my
parents loved me very very much, and they you know,
my dad said, if you had a heart problem, I
would have taken me to the best cardiologist, and it's
(04:35):
he saw it at the time as the same way.
And I think that's an important distinction to make, is
that you know these parents are trying to do what's
best for them, but you know it's finding out that
you know, okay, that this method or this quote unquote
practice is not based in anything, and it doesn't change
(04:56):
someone's sexual orientation. It causes so many other issues in
someone's life, whether that's through shame and then relating back
to PTSD and depression, suicidal ideation. And so I consider
myself lucky to be called a survivor because so many
people have not survived going through this practice. And I
(05:16):
also consider myself very lucky that I do have such
an amazing support system that I was able to get
through that and now come out on the other side
and have a platform to be able to tell my
story and hopefully make some change and help the world
as well.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
How are you now in terms of obviously, at fourteen
years old, you said you just sort of went on
into this like a ride in an amusement park, not
knowing exactly what was ahead. But now that you are
a grown person, you're in your thirties, you're able to
reflect on this. Do you feel like the shame and
the other things that became a part of your story
(05:56):
have been able to just melt away?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
You know, kids are really impressionable, and that's why it's
so important to protect them, and you know, we're not
trying to force any ideology on anyone, and I think
that is an important distinction to make. And I know
that now as an adult, those messages they go deep
that you hear as a kid. You know, we all
(06:20):
have things that you know, a lot of messages and
morals of our parents and others put into us that
are really amazing things as kids. But then there's also
all these other, you know, things that happen that we
get along the way, and so those things were very deep,
and there's still something that I have to actively work
to combat in my life now. And you know, it's
(06:41):
been someone told me today because I said fourteen and
I'm thirty four. That was twenty years ago. I was like, wow,
that time in some cases supplies by, but you know,
there are definitely still impacts of it today. But I
am very thankful for my for my family, and also
for my chosen family and friends and others who have
supported me along the way, and uh, because I definitely
(07:03):
wouldn't be here without without them and without their support
today and it was just it was amazing to be
able to celebrate that today and to have Governor Anebusher's
leadership and uh stepping forward and doing something that we
couldn't get through the legislature dropout despite many drives and
having a lot of partisan support for those bills, but
(07:27):
you know, we could never even get them to bring
it to vote. So it was Today was a big
day and I'm very thankful for the you know, small
part that I was able to play in and helping
with that, and you know, the many other survivors who
have come forward and shared their stories along with you know,
(07:48):
Tanner Mobile and the band Conversion Therapy Kentucky and Trevor
Project and Chris Hartman with the Fairness Campaign. There's so
many people as well as other survivors like Dustin Rayburn
who's in our documentary and others who have Brandon Long
is another one who is there today. Just everyone. It's
(08:08):
been such a group effort to raise awareness about this
and today was a great day and a milestone. For sure.
There's definitely more work to be done, but this executive
order is important and a great day for Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
There is some stark push back out of some of
those legislators that you were referencing, and I guess that
once the legislature convenes again early next year, that maybe
this issue is going to come up again. One of
them is Representative Josh Callaway, who said, pledged rather quote
to file legislation on day one to stop this governor
from pushing his harmful, far left agenda on struggling kids.
(08:47):
How do you, as a gay person respond to what
that legislator said.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I was one of those struggling kids, and I wish
I'd be happy to sit down and talk with him.
But you know, I was one of those struggling kids.
I tried. You know, I went through the practice. I
did everything that I was told to do for those
four years, and I stayed in that world trying to
combat it for another, you know, eight nine years, and
I did everything, and it drove me to I wouldn't
(09:20):
be alive today had I not accepted the help of
actual therapists. And I am grateful for them and for
their support and as well as the support of many
others in my community that have helped me get through
those things. But people who say that, you know, this
(09:40):
is important to be able to guide or direct kids,
you know, kids are you know, everyone should have the
right to believe whatever they want, and we're not. No
one's saying that they shouldn't. But a kid should not
be forced or told that you have to go do this,
And at fourteen, you can't make that decision for yourself.
And so that's why this is important, and that's why
(10:03):
you know, I believe that I know to what we
did today will protect and save lives in Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Well, there are a lot of people in your movie
who make some amazing claims about their own struggles and
some of the therapists who may not have had the
best of intentions anyway, including your own story. So I
just I'm going to encourage people to just watch it
conversionmovie dot COM's website where you can get the trailer
(10:31):
and learn more. And then, as you said, Zach will
just lead people to the various platforms, but Amazon Prime first.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah. Absolutely, And you know, again, the last thing I
would say is just that you know, it's so important
to get word out there, and I know that there's
people who, you know, everything is so politicized and people,
you know, want to jump on something, and this really
I would just encourage people to listen, to talk to
(11:01):
someone who maybe has been through it, and just you know,
be open to maybe challenging your perceptions a little bit.
And you know, this is not about an agenda forcing
anything on anyone or putting information in front of anyone.
This is about stopping licensed practitioners from doing a practice
that has proven to be harmful to kids. And you know,
(11:23):
it's still you know, it's not infringing on pastors' rights
to counsel anyone, and it's you know, I wish the
laws could go further, but we do have religious freedom
in this country and I think that's important as well.
So yeah, absolutely, But for the kids out there, it's
just important to know that you're loved and you're valued
(11:46):
no matter who you love.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
So you are loved in our family. I'll tell you
that much, Zach, And.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
You know that I do know that, and.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
That never changes. I love you, nephew and proud of you.
And will just send pep again to the website conversionmovie
dot com. They can get the trailer there, and I
just think it's it's a great educational piece for people
to take in and like you said, just sit back
and with an open mind and say, oh, I hadn't
thought about it that way. So thanks absolutely, thanks for
(12:16):
sharing your story, and we'll see you again at the
next family event.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I'm good to see that, all right, brother, all right.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
At Zachminer's conversionmovie dot com, that's something he put together
to tell not only his own story, but those of
several other folks, and it is it'll get your mind
swirling into thinking, Wow, I hadn't considered that. It's always
a good phrase for anybody to embrace. I hadn't considered that.
But you learn something today and that's always good. Coming
(12:43):
right back on news radio eight forty whas
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