Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Right now. It's pleasure to welcome Mike Hilders back to
the program, Nebraska Attorney in General. Mike, good morning, Good
to have you back.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Good morning, Gary. Great to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Bet. I wanted to find out more about this lawsuit
you filed on behalf of the state of Nebraska against
fourign billionaire from I guess Switzerland, who has been you say,
pouring money in the here to boost these ballot initiatives.
Tell me more about this that is illegal.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Right, yep, that's right. Not only they've been pouring money,
they've been pouring massive amounts of money. Last cycled by
our count Gary, was almost ten million dollars. This might
be a little not very much in New York City
or California, but as you know, in Nebraska, that's an
enormous amount of money. And what we did is we
trace those dollars through a number of intermediaries back to
(00:49):
mister Weese Osborg Weis, who's the sweetist billionaire. And in Nebraska,
actually one of the few states is only about ten
or to maybe thirteen by our count Gary, that have
this in law that prohibit direct or indirect funding by
foreign nationals of Nebraska State ballot initiatives, and so it
(01:09):
is against the law. We think what they've done is
it violates that law, and we filed a lawsuit to
stop them.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Does that law also apply two campaigns for office holders
are only to ballot initiatives.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
There is a separate law that I believe Gary does
also prohibit contributions to candidates, but I actually would have
to double check that. What's interesting Gary, For a long time,
people thought at the federal level that foreign funding of
state elections was banned. And what happened was in twenty
twenty one, the FDC issued a ruling interpreting federal law
(01:44):
and saying, actually, everyone, that is not the case. And
so there was this potential loophole for foreign funding of
state elections in Nebraska. Actually, Senator John Cavanat it's a
bipartisan issue. Senator John Kavanaugh brought an amendment on the floor.
I was speaker. I voted for it to close that
pole in Nebraska, and I just can't remember if there
was a state specific provision for candidates. If there's not,
(02:05):
by the way, I'd encourage the legislature.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
To fix that whole Lincoln for Fairhousing, Support our Schools Project,
protect our rights, Nebraskans for medical marijuana and Nebraskans for
paid sick leave. These are all or we're all ballot
initiatives favored largely by the left. And so I suppose
you could logically conclude that this guy in Switzerland is
(02:27):
a if he's guilty of this. As a lefty, he's saying, look,
this is absolutely there's nothing to this complete denial. So
what do you have to do to prove this.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Well, the wall's pretty broad. First of all, we don't
think he's right, and we actually think is that the
evidence that we've seen in other states where these bands
have been passed and they've been upheld, We think that
their reaction to those bands is to pull their money out,
which I think is an indication that they realize that
the law covers their activities. The good news for us
is that the law's broad. It's a direct or indirect funding,
(03:05):
and so we don't have to forensically trace one dollar
from one account to the next to the other. As
you know, Gary, money's fungible. You know, if I give
you one thousand dollars in one pocket and you happen
to take five hundred dollars out of the other pocket.
It doesn't mean somehow that my money didn't influence your
spending decision. So we just have to show a little
bit more of what we put in our complaint, which
is that we've we can trace the money from him
(03:27):
to these ballid initiatives, and we think the burden is
something that we will pretty easily meet. But I'll tell you,
we're going to get in discovery. We're going to find
out exactly you know the scope and extent of this,
and you know there may be some follow on allegations
that might come from this.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
So if you if you prevail, then what we would
have to pay in Nebraska a ton of money.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
No, actually, in this case, we're not seeking We're not
seeking a monetary penalty or fine. But what we are
seeking is going forward for this to stop. We're actually
this is a question of the press conference. Scary, Hey,
are we trying to undo the initiative? No, we're not.
Those are passed, They are now the law, except for
a current legal challenge is to one of them that
we have ongoing. But is it this forward facing, forward
(04:14):
looking All we're saying is get this dark money from
foreign sources. That's the key. Dark money is actually constitutional,
but dark money coming from foreign sources, just get that
out of Nebraska. And that's what we're seeking going forward.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Okay, well, I guess I'm not sure then what what
the purpose of the lawsuit is. I mean, if there's
no penalty for what he did, then what would stop
somebody else from doing it again?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, it's a great question. Well, right now we know
he's fwawning the law, and so what happens is if
you get an injunction and if you get a declaratory
judgment at court, violation of that comes with very significant
criminal penalties. And so right now we know that the
Nebraska state statutes on the book scary are not enough
to stop him. But a court order to which attaches
(04:58):
criminal penalties that we think will be enough to stop
and although also would put unnoticed local ballot initiatives. You know,
before maybe they didn't know, but now they should know.
They shouldn't be receiving those money moneys or going forward
with the court order, they might also subject themselves to
some liability. So the court order will mean a great
deal going forward to stop this.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So who did he funnel the money through? Here? In Nebraska?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
There was about a half a dozen variousentities that we've
identified so far, national entities that for people who focus
on the space nationally would recognize but might be foreign
to Nebraska years, a thing called the sixteen thirty Fund,
the New Venture Fund, Burger Action Fund. These are all
funds that are nationally playing in state ballot initiative among
(05:45):
other electoral activities. They're all national, they're not in Nebraska based.
We didn't sue any of the Nebraska entities. We're not
suggesting that they knew that this was from a foreign source,
not going after them and seeking liability. Now, of course
it's in discovery we find out that's not true. That
could change, but that's not what we think right now.
But no, it's a number of dark money groups from
outside of the state.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
By the way, as far as you know, has the
Southern Poverty Law Center declared your office up I hate group?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yet they they haven't. You know, you know, my family
went to church on Sunday. So I'm expecting now that
we will be named a hate group here shortly, just
a matter of time.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
It's not it's not when mister Attorney General, thanks so
much for your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Oh it's been great with to be with you gentlemen here,
Garrett
Speaker 1 (06:33):
That's Mike Kilger is here.
Right now. It's pleasure to welcome Mike Hilders back to
the program, Nebraska Attorney in General. Mike, good morning, Good
to have you back.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Good morning, Gary. Great to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Bet. I wanted to find out more about this lawsuit
you filed on behalf of the state of Nebraska against
fourign billionaire from I guess Switzerland, who has been you say,
pouring money in the here to boost these ballot initiatives.
Tell me more about this that is illegal.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Right, yep, that's right. Not only they've been pouring money,
they've been pouring massive amounts of money. Last cycled by
our count Gary, was almost ten million dollars. This might
be a little not very much in New York City
or California, but as you know, in Nebraska, that's an
enormous amount of money. And what we did is we
trace those dollars through a number of intermediaries back to
(00:49):
mister Weese Osborg Weis, who's the sweetist billionaire. And in Nebraska,
actually one of the few states is only about ten
or to maybe thirteen by our count Gary, that have
this in law that prohibit direct or indirect funding by
foreign nationals of Nebraska State ballot initiatives, and so it
(01:09):
is against the law. We think what they've done is
it violates that law, and we filed a lawsuit to
stop them.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Does that law also apply two campaigns for office holders
are only to ballot initiatives.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
There is a separate law that I believe Gary does
also prohibit contributions to candidates, but I actually would have
to double check that. What's interesting Gary, For a long time,
people thought at the federal level that foreign funding of
state elections was banned. And what happened was in twenty
twenty one, the FDC issued a ruling interpreting federal law
(01:44):
and saying, actually, everyone, that is not the case. And
so there was this potential loophole for foreign funding of
state elections in Nebraska. Actually, Senator John Cavanat it's a
bipartisan issue. Senator John Kavanaugh brought an amendment on the floor.
I was speaker. I voted for it to close that
pole in Nebraska, and I just can't remember if there
was a state specific provision for candidates. If there's not,
(02:05):
by the way, I'd encourage the legislature.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
To fix that whole Lincoln for Fairhousing, Support our Schools Project,
protect our rights, Nebraskans for medical marijuana and Nebraskans for
paid sick leave. These are all or we're all ballot
initiatives favored largely by the left. And so I suppose
you could logically conclude that this guy in Switzerland is
(02:27):
a if he's guilty of this. As a lefty, he's saying, look,
this is absolutely there's nothing to this complete denial. So
what do you have to do to prove this.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Well, the wall's pretty broad. First of all, we don't
think he's right, and we actually think is that the
evidence that we've seen in other states where these bands
have been passed and they've been upheld, We think that
their reaction to those bands is to pull their money out,
which I think is an indication that they realize that
the law covers their activities. The good news for us
is that the law's broad. It's a direct or indirect funding,
(03:05):
and so we don't have to forensically trace one dollar
from one account to the next to the other. As
you know, Gary, money's fungible. You know, if I give
you one thousand dollars in one pocket and you happen
to take five hundred dollars out of the other pocket.
It doesn't mean somehow that my money didn't influence your
spending decision. So we just have to show a little
bit more of what we put in our complaint, which
is that we've we can trace the money from him
(03:27):
to these ballid initiatives, and we think the burden is
something that we will pretty easily meet. But I'll tell you,
we're going to get in discovery. We're going to find
out exactly you know the scope and extent of this,
and you know there may be some follow on allegations
that might come from this.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
So if you if you prevail, then what we would
have to pay in Nebraska a ton of money.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
No, actually, in this case, we're not seeking We're not
seeking a monetary penalty or fine. But what we are
seeking is going forward for this to stop. We're actually
this is a question of the press conference. Scary, Hey,
are we trying to undo the initiative? No, we're not.
Those are passed, They are now the law, except for
a current legal challenge is to one of them that
we have ongoing. But is it this forward facing, forward
(04:14):
looking All we're saying is get this dark money from
foreign sources. That's the key. Dark money is actually constitutional,
but dark money coming from foreign sources, just get that
out of Nebraska. And that's what we're seeking going forward.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Okay, well, I guess I'm not sure then what what
the purpose of the lawsuit is. I mean, if there's
no penalty for what he did, then what would stop
somebody else from doing it again?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, it's a great question. Well, right now we know
he's fwawning the law, and so what happens is if
you get an injunction and if you get a declaratory
judgment at court, violation of that comes with very significant
criminal penalties. And so right now we know that the
Nebraska state statutes on the book scary are not enough
to stop him. But a court order to which attaches
(04:58):
criminal penalties that we think will be enough to stop
and although also would put unnoticed local ballot initiatives. You know,
before maybe they didn't know, but now they should know.
They shouldn't be receiving those money moneys or going forward
with the court order, they might also subject themselves to
some liability. So the court order will mean a great
deal going forward to stop this.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So who did he funnel the money through? Here? In Nebraska?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
There was about a half a dozen variousentities that we've
identified so far, national entities that for people who focus
on the space nationally would recognize but might be foreign
to Nebraska years, a thing called the sixteen thirty Fund,
the New Venture Fund, Burger Action Fund. These are all
funds that are nationally playing in state ballot initiative among
(05:45):
other electoral activities. They're all national, they're not in Nebraska based.
We didn't sue any of the Nebraska entities. We're not
suggesting that they knew that this was from a foreign source,
not going after them and seeking liability. Now, of course
it's in discovery we find out that's not true. That
could change, but that's not what we think right now.
But no, it's a number of dark money groups from
outside of the state.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
By the way, as far as you know, has the
Southern Poverty Law Center declared your office up I hate group?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yet they they haven't. You know, you know, my family
went to church on Sunday. So I'm expecting now that
we will be named a hate group here shortly, just
a matter of time.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
It's not it's not when mister Attorney General, thanks so
much for your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Oh it's been great with to be with you gentlemen here,
Garrett
Speaker 1 (06:33):
That's Mike Kilger is here.
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