Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
United States Supreme Court heard a big one yesterday. This
may be one of the landmark cases of this term,
one of the last ones they'll hear in this term,
and it has to do with parental choice, religious liberty,
school choice, all of that, which has been a big
issue here in Nebraska too. In this case, sant Isidoor
(00:20):
versus Drummond comes out of the state of Oklahoma. We're
joined for a few minutes this morning by attorney and
analyst Michael Tot who's all over this story.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Michael, good morning, Good morning, it's great to be with you. You're
absolutely right. I feel like this case kind of sneaked
up on people with everything that's been in the news.
But yeah, high stakes at the High Court. This is
a really big case for renal rights, school choice, and
educational opportunity. And just delighted to have the chance to
talk with your listeners about it.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
You bet. Did you get a sense of which way
the wind is blowing in this hearing?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, good question. You know, always hard to have christal
ball when you're dealing with the Supreme Court justices. You know,
they all come at the from their own perspective on
the law. But I'll tell you this. If the court
follows its precedence, it's going to be a victory for
sant Isidor, and it's going to be a victory for
parental rights and more opportunity in education. Now, the US
(01:14):
Supreme Court has issued a string of decisions since twenty
seventeen basically establishing the point that we can't discriminate on
the basis of religion when it comes down to education.
And so if they follow those precedents, I think it's
going to be a win for San Isidor, But we'll know.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
In June, Amy Justice Barrett recused herself. Not one hundred
percent sure why. I know. I guess we have a
pretty good sense of where she stands on this, But
why did she need to recuse herself.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
That's a great question if you look at this case,
it's really interesting backdrop here. The school which is called
sant Isidor is a Oklahoma based school. They're represented in
part by a clinic at Notre Dame Law School, Okay,
and Justice Barrett was professor at Notre Dame Law School. Also,
(02:07):
there is a professor at Notre Dame Law School, Nicole Garnett,
and I recommend to all of your listeners. Check out
Professor Garnett's piece in the Wall Street Journals, very similar
to the piece that I published in the National Review.
Professor Garnett has been talking about this particular issue since
twenty twenty, and Professor Garnett and Justice Barrett our close friends.
(02:30):
Probably a combination of things.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
But it's good things she did. But then we could
end up with a four to four decision on that.
You know what's interesting to me about this, Michael, is
that a very conservative red state at Oklahoma, their attorney
general is the one arguing before the court against this
because he says, as you as you wrote about, he
(02:54):
has the reason we have this law in Oklahoma is
because we didn't want extreme sects of the Muslim faith
using public tax dollars to teach Sharia law. And you
say that's a bogus argument.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Right, yeah, one hundred percent. I mean, look, this is
an all hands on deck moment when it comes down
to prenal rights and education in school choice. And I
think parents, you know, across the political spectrum, you know,
parents who you know have religious faith or I have
no particular religious faith at all, are looking at what's
going on in American schools and they want more options.
(03:27):
And let's look at the facts here. Not only did
you have the Oklahoma governor in the Oklahoma state state
school superintendent, and the particular charter school board in Oklahoma
are all coming out the other way against the attorney general.
But guess what, the Trump administration also came out in
favor of school choice here. So yesterday at the Supreme Court,
(03:47):
it wasn't just the attorney for Saint Isidore, but he
also had the US Solicitor General under President Donald Trump
stand up in front of the justices in his first argument.
He was just confirmed as Solicitor General, and he stood
up in front and the justices and said, this is
about parental choice. The previous Trump administration in twenty twenty
issued an opinion on this same issue, coming out also
(04:09):
in favor of the fact that we can't discriminate on
the basis of religion. And it doesn't matter what religion
we're talking about. The First Amendment doesn't allow religious discrimination.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So we it seems to me, So what do you think,
Michael Taught, if the Supreme Court sides with San isidor,
will that have implications across the country or might they
do a very narrow decision to say this applies only
to this case in Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You know, I think it's going to have implications across
the country for two reasons. You know. One, you know,
let's take a step back here. This is a case
about charter schools, and the reality is that if the
court goes the other way, what they're essentially saying is
that charter schools need to be regulated by the government,
they don't have constitutional rights. The court would be saying
that private entities that contract with the government to provide
(04:59):
social services don't have constitutional rights. They don't have the
constitutional right to religious liberty. That means that faith based
foster care programs, faith based hospitals are going to all
of a sudden be subject now it's to litigation, lawsuits. Also,
it means that a lot of the innovation in the
charter school space, single sex charter schools, charter schools in
Oklahoma that focus on tribal communities, charter schools that have uniforms,
(05:23):
those are all going to all of a sudden be
subject to lawsuits, and they're not going to be able
to say, hey, we are private entities and we have
more leeways. So I think it's a big decision, and
I think it's a decision that's going to affect communities
across the country. And guess what, parents want more choice.
You know, we're seeing four million students now in charter schools.
You look at what's happening across the street, and you
(05:44):
know American students eighth grade, only seventy percent of them
are not proficient in math and reading. I also look
at this, and this maybe is another point for your listeners.
This is the first hundred day story for the Trump
administration as well. Now Trump administrator has been very keen.
We need more reform and education.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Michael, thanks great info. Appreciate you having the time to
join us this morning.
United States Supreme Court heard a big one yesterday. This
may be one of the landmark cases of this term,
one of the last ones they'll hear in this term,
and it has to do with parental choice, religious liberty,
school choice, all of that, which has been a big
issue here in Nebraska too. In this case, sant Isidoor
(00:20):
versus Drummond comes out of the state of Oklahoma. We're
joined for a few minutes this morning by attorney and
analyst Michael Tot who's all over this story.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Michael, good morning, Good morning, it's great to be with you. You're
absolutely right. I feel like this case kind of sneaked
up on people with everything that's been in the news.
But yeah, high stakes at the High Court. This is
a really big case for renal rights, school choice, and
educational opportunity. And just delighted to have the chance to
talk with your listeners about it.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
You bet. Did you get a sense of which way
the wind is blowing in this hearing?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, good question. You know, always hard to have christal
ball when you're dealing with the Supreme Court justices. You know,
they all come at the from their own perspective on
the law. But I'll tell you this. If the court
follows its precedence, it's going to be a victory for
sant Isidor, and it's going to be a victory for
parental rights and more opportunity in education. Now, the US
(01:14):
Supreme Court has issued a string of decisions since twenty
seventeen basically establishing the point that we can't discriminate on
the basis of religion when it comes down to education.
And so if they follow those precedents, I think it's
going to be a win for San Isidor, But we'll know.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
In June, Amy Justice Barrett recused herself. Not one hundred
percent sure why. I know. I guess we have a
pretty good sense of where she stands on this, But
why did she need to recuse herself.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
That's a great question if you look at this case,
it's really interesting backdrop here. The school which is called
sant Isidor is a Oklahoma based school. They're represented in
part by a clinic at Notre Dame Law School, Okay,
and Justice Barrett was professor at Notre Dame Law School. Also,
(02:07):
there is a professor at Notre Dame Law School, Nicole Garnett,
and I recommend to all of your listeners. Check out
Professor Garnett's piece in the Wall Street Journals, very similar
to the piece that I published in the National Review.
Professor Garnett has been talking about this particular issue since
twenty twenty, and Professor Garnett and Justice Barrett our close friends.
(02:30):
Probably a combination of things.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
But it's good things she did. But then we could
end up with a four to four decision on that.
You know what's interesting to me about this, Michael, is
that a very conservative red state at Oklahoma, their attorney
general is the one arguing before the court against this
because he says, as you as you wrote about, he
(02:54):
has the reason we have this law in Oklahoma is
because we didn't want extreme sects of the Muslim faith
using public tax dollars to teach Sharia law. And you
say that's a bogus argument.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Right, yeah, one hundred percent. I mean, look, this is
an all hands on deck moment when it comes down
to prenal rights and education in school choice. And I
think parents, you know, across the political spectrum, you know,
parents who you know have religious faith or I have
no particular religious faith at all, are looking at what's
going on in American schools and they want more options.
(03:27):
And let's look at the facts here. Not only did
you have the Oklahoma governor in the Oklahoma state state
school superintendent, and the particular charter school board in Oklahoma
are all coming out the other way against the attorney general.
But guess what, the Trump administration also came out in
favor of school choice here. So yesterday at the Supreme Court,
(03:47):
it wasn't just the attorney for Saint Isidore, but he
also had the US Solicitor General under President Donald Trump
stand up in front of the justices in his first argument.
He was just confirmed as Solicitor General, and he stood
up in front and the justices and said, this is
about parental choice. The previous Trump administration in twenty twenty
issued an opinion on this same issue, coming out also
(04:09):
in favor of the fact that we can't discriminate on
the basis of religion. And it doesn't matter what religion
we're talking about. The First Amendment doesn't allow religious discrimination.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So we it seems to me, So what do you think,
Michael Taught, if the Supreme Court sides with San isidor,
will that have implications across the country or might they
do a very narrow decision to say this applies only
to this case in Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You know, I think it's going to have implications across
the country for two reasons. You know. One, you know,
let's take a step back here. This is a case
about charter schools, and the reality is that if the
court goes the other way, what they're essentially saying is
that charter schools need to be regulated by the government,
they don't have constitutional rights. The court would be saying
that private entities that contract with the government to provide
(04:59):
social services don't have constitutional rights. They don't have the
constitutional right to religious liberty. That means that faith based
foster care programs, faith based hospitals are going to all
of a sudden be subject now it's to litigation, lawsuits. Also,
it means that a lot of the innovation in the
charter school space, single sex charter schools, charter schools in
Oklahoma that focus on tribal communities, charter schools that have uniforms,
(05:23):
those are all going to all of a sudden be
subject to lawsuits, and they're not going to be able
to say, hey, we are private entities and we have
more leeways. So I think it's a big decision, and
I think it's a decision that's going to affect communities
across the country. And guess what, parents want more choice.
You know, we're seeing four million students now in charter schools.
You look at what's happening across the street, and you
(05:44):
know American students eighth grade, only seventy percent of them
are not proficient in math and reading. I also look
at this, and this maybe is another point for your listeners.
This is the first hundred day story for the Trump
administration as well. Now Trump administrator has been very keen.
We need more reform and education.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Michael, thanks great info. Appreciate you having the time to
join us this morning.
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