Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quite the little p fight going on between President Trump
and Illinois Governor Pritzker over the President's plan to deploy
National Guard troops in Chicago possibly other cities too, to
help out the local police with a rampant crime there,
(00:20):
as he did in Washington, d C. Which of course
is a federal enclave. We're joined for a few minutes
this morning by Jeremy Rosenthal, legal analyst, and who's looking
at this as we all are. Jeremy, good morning, going
to have.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You back, Good morning, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
As a as a legal scholar. Where do you think
the courts should come down on this and where do
you think they will come down? I suppose that depends
on what judge you get. But what does the Constitution
say in your view?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, you've got a handful of things that are really
going on here, and I think what you're going to
find is that one size is not really going to fit.
Fall is part of the best way to think about this.
You mentioned it just a second ago. The President of
the United States has different powers in the di of Columbia,
right in the federal district when he goes to California.
(01:11):
In that instance, there was an argument there that well,
we're protecting ICE troops, ICE troupe, ICE agents are being
retaliated against their being there. They're they're getting assaulted, They're
they're they're not able to complete their mission. That there
was some more federal interests when you start looking at
other cities. Uh, there's some there's some barriers that that
(01:33):
don't allow the military to conduct police work. Those are statutory.
Uh some of them come from the Civil War slash
reconstruction era. So it is kind of a complicated thing.
But I but ultimately I think each individual case is
going to be different.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, well, and it could be in the case of Chicago, Uh,
they could be there to protect ICE agents. The way
these people in Chicago are talking they're going to basically
be on the attack against is that when they ramp
up enforcement efforts there and so the troop there, the
National Guard could be there to protect them.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Which, right, the four I think key points for everybody
to sort of take home the legal analysis, if you will,
And this is a compilation of a handful of statutes.
We have a roadmap now based because based on the
California situation, because those things have sort of been going
up and down the courts. So we do have some
clear guidelines to it. The president can nationalize the National
(02:39):
Guard to rebut a foreign invasion, to put down an insurrection,
or as he did in California. The logic there was
to was to protect ICE agents and to further federal enforcement.
What they can't do in the fourth wrong of it.
(03:00):
There's there's an act. It's been booted around the internet.
It's called Posse comitatus. That's the that's the provision that
says that we don't use the military. We're not allowed
to use the military for general police work.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
UH.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
This issue went to trial last week two weeks ago
in California. UH and and Judge Bryer, who's the brother
of former Supreme Court Justice Stephen Bryer, basically said, look,
you're you're okay, fine, you got sent here to protect
ICE agents. But you're doing routine patrols, you're doing crowd control,
you're doing all these other police things. That's no good.
(03:36):
So that's going to be some of the barriers between
putting them, say in in Chicago, what what other cities
have been discussed? I know New Orleans has you're Baltimore, right,
so you're you're gonna have to there's going to have
to be probably a federal interest there. And and if
you're the Trump administration, that's the challenge is sort of
(03:59):
justifying it that way.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah. Does it also depend a little bit, Jeremy, on
what the definition of police work is, because as I
understand it, in d C, uh, they weren't even armed,
they were they were they were there to help uh
the DC police if they needed it, identifying the suspects
and so on. So what it kind of depends on
(04:22):
the definition, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, you would think so. And and and there's some
certain things that that are clearly police work, right, gathering evidence,
arresting people, uh, routine stops, patrol, things like that that
I don't think are going to be very debatable. And
then there's just sort of the presence, right Uh. And
(04:45):
then if you're if you're mister Pittsker in Illinois, Uh,
I think you're arguing at that point, well, okay, hold on,
so you're gonna put tanks, You're not going to do anything,
then what do we need it for?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Right? So?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Uh So I think that's kind of part of this
big sort of wrestling match kabookie dance, right, if you're
into your Japanese theater, right, I know that's big enough,
so huge, So.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, yeah, I wanted to ask you about something else unrelated.
This character Ryan Routh, who tried to kill President Trump, right,
all right, he has an idiot for a client and
a fool for a lawyer, is going to represent himself.
But the judge warning, you've done about two hundred and
so I don't know how many trials Jeremy.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
The judge warned this guy about making sudden movements and
told him you got to address in a business suit.
Is that unusual for a judge?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
No, no, not at all. You have to remember that
a jury trial is a very very strictly curated performance
for twelve people. You have a right to a fair trial.
The government also has a right to a fair trial
and what And there's two real different ways to think
(05:58):
of a trial. One is all the things that happened
in the courtroom that that are the law, and then
there's the show for the jury. And the show for
the jury has to be very curated. There's a lot
of rules that are in place, and you can't you
can represent yourself, but you can't you can't spoil it
for everybody, and and you can waive your right to
(06:18):
represent yourself through your conduct. So if he, if he
makes it too much of a clown act, then the
judge can can pull the plug. He's got what's called
stand by council, and stand by council that those are
those are public defenders who are there if he needs them,
that he can ask questions. But when you're stand by council,
(06:39):
basically you're like the backup pilot and your job is
to pull up the controls after the plane has already
hit the mountain. Sort of what happened, Yeah, the judgement
in there, Jeremy.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Thanks Jeremy Rosenthal, AB's morning News
Quite the little p fight going on between President Trump
and Illinois Governor Pritzker over the President's plan to deploy
National Guard troops in Chicago possibly other cities too, to
help out the local police with a rampant crime there,
(00:20):
as he did in Washington, d C. Which of course
is a federal enclave. We're joined for a few minutes
this morning by Jeremy Rosenthal, legal analyst, and who's looking
at this as we all are. Jeremy, good morning, going
to have.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You back, Good morning, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
As a as a legal scholar. Where do you think
the courts should come down on this and where do
you think they will come down? I suppose that depends
on what judge you get. But what does the Constitution
say in your view?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, you've got a handful of things that are really
going on here, and I think what you're going to
find is that one size is not really going to fit.
Fall is part of the best way to think about this.
You mentioned it just a second ago. The President of
the United States has different powers in the di of Columbia,
right in the federal district when he goes to California.
(01:11):
In that instance, there was an argument there that well,
we're protecting ICE troops, ICE troupe, ICE agents are being
retaliated against their being there. They're they're getting assaulted, They're
they're they're not able to complete their mission. That there
was some more federal interests when you start looking at
other cities. Uh, there's some there's some barriers that that
(01:33):
don't allow the military to conduct police work. Those are statutory.
Uh some of them come from the Civil War slash
reconstruction era. So it is kind of a complicated thing.
But I but ultimately I think each individual case is
going to be different.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, well, and it could be in the case of Chicago, Uh,
they could be there to protect ICE agents. The way
these people in Chicago are talking they're going to basically
be on the attack against is that when they ramp
up enforcement efforts there and so the troop there, the
National Guard could be there to protect them.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Which, right, the four I think key points for everybody
to sort of take home the legal analysis, if you will,
And this is a compilation of a handful of statutes.
We have a roadmap now based because based on the
California situation, because those things have sort of been going
up and down the courts. So we do have some
clear guidelines to it. The president can nationalize the National
(02:39):
Guard to rebut a foreign invasion, to put down an insurrection,
or as he did in California. The logic there was
to was to protect ICE agents and to further federal enforcement.
What they can't do in the fourth wrong of it.
(03:00):
There's there's an act. It's been booted around the internet.
It's called Posse comitatus. That's the that's the provision that
says that we don't use the military. We're not allowed
to use the military for general police work.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
UH.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
This issue went to trial last week two weeks ago
in California. UH and and Judge Bryer, who's the brother
of former Supreme Court Justice Stephen Bryer, basically said, look,
you're you're okay, fine, you got sent here to protect
ICE agents. But you're doing routine patrols, you're doing crowd control,
you're doing all these other police things. That's no good.
(03:36):
So that's going to be some of the barriers between
putting them, say in in Chicago, what what other cities
have been discussed? I know New Orleans has you're Baltimore, right,
so you're you're gonna have to there's going to have
to be probably a federal interest there. And and if
you're the Trump administration, that's the challenge is sort of
(03:59):
justifying it that way.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah. Does it also depend a little bit, Jeremy, on
what the definition of police work is, because as I
understand it, in d C, uh, they weren't even armed,
they were they were they were there to help uh
the DC police if they needed it, identifying the suspects
and so on. So what it kind of depends on
(04:22):
the definition, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, you would think so. And and and there's some
certain things that that are clearly police work, right, gathering evidence,
arresting people, uh, routine stops, patrol, things like that that
I don't think are going to be very debatable. And
then there's just sort of the presence, right Uh. And
(04:45):
then if you're if you're mister Pittsker in Illinois, Uh,
I think you're arguing at that point, well, okay, hold on,
so you're gonna put tanks, You're not going to do anything,
then what do we need it for?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Right? So?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Uh So I think that's kind of part of this
big sort of wrestling match kabookie dance, right, if you're
into your Japanese theater, right, I know that's big enough,
so huge, So.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, yeah, I wanted to ask you about something else unrelated.
This character Ryan Routh, who tried to kill President Trump, right,
all right, he has an idiot for a client and
a fool for a lawyer, is going to represent himself.
But the judge warning, you've done about two hundred and
so I don't know how many trials Jeremy.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
The judge warned this guy about making sudden movements and
told him you got to address in a business suit.
Is that unusual for a judge?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
No, no, not at all. You have to remember that
a jury trial is a very very strictly curated performance
for twelve people. You have a right to a fair trial.
The government also has a right to a fair trial
and what And there's two real different ways to think
(05:58):
of a trial. One is all the things that happened
in the courtroom that that are the law, and then
there's the show for the jury. And the show for
the jury has to be very curated. There's a lot
of rules that are in place, and you can't you
can represent yourself, but you can't you can't spoil it
for everybody, and and you can waive your right to
(06:18):
represent yourself through your conduct. So if he, if he
makes it too much of a clown act, then the
judge can can pull the plug. He's got what's called
stand by council, and stand by council that those are
those are public defenders who are there if he needs them,
that he can ask questions. But when you're stand by council,
(06:39):
basically you're like the backup pilot and your job is
to pull up the controls after the plane has already
hit the mountain. Sort of what happened, Yeah, the judgement
in there, Jeremy.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Thanks Jeremy Rosenthal, AB's morning News
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd is a thought-provoking, opinionated, and topic-driven journey through the top sports stories of the day.