November 25, 2025 • 35 mins
Tommy and Jim sit down with Reds pitching coach Derek Johnson.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Well, come in Happy Turkey Day week.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It is the Budweiser Reds Hot Stove League presented by
u DF. Were live of the bet MGM Sportsbook inside
Tom's Watch Bar at the Banks with jim Day. I'm
Tommy Throw talking Reds Baseball with you for the next
hour and we have a great guest on with us today.
Jimmy always love talking not just not just pitching, but
baseball with Derek Johnson.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
He's one of those guys that I'm not sure there's
ever been a baseball conversation I've ever had that I
didn't learn something right.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
So let's learn something all right. Put on your learning hat.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Derek Johnson, Red's pitching coach, director of pitching for the Reds,
joins us today and he is so graciously, whether willingly
or unwillingly, he's agreed to spend the entire hour with
us today.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I know all sixty minute. Isn't that amazing? That's great?
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Hey, thanks so much for joining us. What's your what's
your off season been like to this point? I mean
is what is I mean? You wear a lot of hats.
We said the director of You're not just the big
League pitching coach. You've got your hands in a lot
of different things. So what does your off season look like?
What have you been up to?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Nothing? Cool?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
All right, great?
Speaker 5 (01:09):
Next, just the few things. Hiring some minor league coaches.
We had to hire a coach on our staff as well.
Player plans, you know, trying to get that together for
the development over the wintertime, and you know, just sort
of general putting out fires here and there, and you know,
(01:29):
really really looking forward.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
To next year.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Any time for recreation or doing anything fun.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Yeah, here and there.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
You know, it's it's not it's not all all work
and no play, but you know, generally I'll spend my
day doing something with the Reds and then you know,
whatever it is at night.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
You just mentioned having to hire another coach. You have
your assistant pitching coaches. A few of them have now
advanced to be pitching coaches. So are you the I
don't know, are the soothsayer of pitching coaches to be?
And how tough is that to say say goodbye and
to go out and hire someone.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
I think I'm really good at hiring people.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Maybe I wouldn't say that I'm any sort of soothsayer
anything like that. But you know, we lost Simon a
couple of weeks ago. He's going to go to the
Nationals to be their their major league pitching coach, and
you know, I'm proud of each one of them moved on.
It's I think it's why we do it. It's why,
you know, you want to see people who work under
(02:29):
you to go on to bigger and better things. And
we've been pretty fortunate We've had a few guys do that.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Matt Tracy's been your bullpen coach the last few years now,
and he's really gotten to know these pitchers on this
staff really well.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I always hear good things about him.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I've enjoyed the conversations that I've had with with Matt.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Now he is your assistant pitching coach. Let's start there.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
How much different is his role going to be and
how much does his familiarity kind of help ease that transition.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I'm excited for Maddie.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
I mean, it's something when we talked about it, he
really wants to do it, so I thought that was great.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
We've got two left.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
Handers side by side, and I'm not so sure that
Oscar Marin our new bullpen coach. He also might be
left handed, so we've got some lefties in the room,
which can spell trouble here and there. But Matty is
excited about doing the job. I think I think he'll
be very, very good at it. I don't feel like
we're going to lose a whole lot of traction with
(03:24):
where we're at right right now with him being in
that role, so really excited for him. It'll give him
a chance to be in the dugout, which he hasn't
been so far in the major leagues. He's been in
the bullpen, so that it'll be another kind of piece
to his development as well.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
You left, he stick together, I mean, you like migrate
together in a herd, it seems to be.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
And Matt can also be a guy.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
If you need someone live hitting session, can step in
there and swing the bat.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Yeah, he's not bad.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
I mean, he was a two way player in college
and he was drafted as a pitcher. I think he
did dabble with hitting for a little while in Pro Bowl.
I'm not sure how long that lasted. But you know,
he's actually still a really good athlete, and he keeps
his arm in shape, and you.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Know, he face hunter there.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
He didn't put the ball and play at least a
little bit, so I think it was ashcraft.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It was okay, right because no one you go around
as like lefties.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, the lefties like no chance. Supplies are getting limited.
I mean, you can't go up there and break a
bunch of Now.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
With with Oscar Marine, you talked about him. This is
a guy that's been a big league pitching coach. What
do you want to what did you like about him?
I know you guys have known each other for a
long time, so I'm sure that made him a pretty
easy hire.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But what is it about him that stands out?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, I mean his experience.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
He was with the Pirates for the last six years
as their their main guy. You know, I've I've hired
a lot of assistants or we've hired a lot of
assistants and bullpen coaches who have been younger, which is great.
I think Oscar brings an element of you know, just
experience that we haven't quite had here yet. So I'm
looking forward to saying, Okay, hey man, how'd you do it?
(05:10):
What did you do with the Pirates? You know, and
the Pirates have pitched really well for the last couple
of years, I got a guy named Skiings.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
I think it's sort of schemes. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Uh, he's pretty good. And they've got some other guys too.
But I I do think Oscar did a really good
job there. I think he was well liked there. I'm
really looking forward to to putting him, you know, in
our in our organization, with with our team.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
I think he's going to make us better.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
How much of a difference is it in roles between
assistant pitching coach and bullpen coach and all.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
That, like what what? How does how do you divvy
up the workload and responsibilities there?
Speaker 5 (05:42):
There's not there's not a ton I mean, obviously the
ones in the bullpen and he's answering the phone and
making sure guys are ready, and there is like that's
I call him the band of pirates down there, that
that's kind of what they are. So he does have
to kind of keep that ship afloat. And there's weird
stuff that goes on down there that I don't even
really want to know about. But you know, there's not
a ton of differences. There's probably a little bit more
(06:05):
paperwork on the assistant end of things, or at least
there can be there's homework, there's there's questions that I
ask that, you know, hey, can you find out the
answer to you know this, that or the other. He's
also in direct kind of you know, relationships with our
biomech guy.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
You know, some other folks around you know the team.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
You had mentioned the off season, and you are also
also the in charge of all Reds pitching throughout the
minor league system. How does it work with the exit
interviews with pitchers and what's your I know it's different
for each individual perhaps, but what's your general philosophy on
off season programs, conditioning, what's going on right now? How
(06:46):
much do you stay in contact with guys? When do
you want them to start ramping up, et cetera. I
leave them alone for a while. I think they need that,
so do I.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
I mean, we see one another for one hundred and
eighty straight days, and you know, after a little while,
it's not not such a bad thing to be apart.
But you know, once we start kind of going back
to them, some of it is maintenance, some of it
is you know, what help do you need? So often
these guys now have their own kind of programming. They
have guys that they work with in the off season.
(07:14):
We're going to give them whatever it is that they need.
Our strength and conditioning folks are biomechanical folks, are.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Training crew.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
All of them are in contact as well, and we
do have a player plan for each guy and it
goes from anything baseball or pitching wise. It will go
into the strength and conditioning needs, that will go into
the athletic training needs, and so it is comprehensive, and
it's also kind of a pick and choose. You know,
we've got a lot of younger pitchers, so those guys
(07:45):
are probably going to take more of our information. The
older guys are the guys who have been around. You know,
it's kind of hard telling. It's it's a little bit
of a mismatch. There's some of them really like it.
Some of them have their own guys and do their
own so it's really just to kind of support them
in whatever way that they would would need it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Kind of talking about some of the young guys, we
saw some of these guys come up to the big
leagues this year and have success at the major league
level right away.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
It seems like we're seeing that more and more within
this organization.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
When guys come up from the minor leagues, they seem
poised to have success at the major league level. How
do you kind of make sure guys are prepared in
the minor leagues to be able to contribute when they
get to the big leagues? And have you seen that
improve in your time here?
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Yeah, And I think it falls directly on your development team.
And so we have three coordinators who are really really
good at what they do, and we have good coaches
in the minor leagues that you know, we've kind of
handpicked over the last couple of years. It's a really
important thing for the Reds. Obviously, we can't go out,
we can't spend you know, millions upon millions of dollars
(08:54):
on pitching, so we have to grow it and we've
done a pretty good job of that. I think we
have the first or second most homegrown pitchers in the league,
So we're doing something right. You got to take another
step with that too, and it's our acquisitions and it's
our scouting. We've done a pretty good job with that
as well. So I think, you know, when you have
(09:16):
kind of those three elements going and you know, these
kids are going.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
To be more prepared and we're ready.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
The last thing I'd say on that though, is they
aren't always ready. It takes a little while, but our
development folks have done a really good job with that.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
You talked about bringing guys in.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I want to get more into that too a little
bit later on in the show, but also want to
break down some of these guys that took big steps
this year, and there were a lot of them that did.
We're visiting with Red's pitching coach Director of Pitching for
the Reds, Derek Johnson. It's the Budweiser Reds Hot Stove
League presented by UDF, and we're live at the bet
MGAM Sportsbook inside Tom's Watch Bartha Banks on the Reds
Radio Network. Otherwise, the Red's Hot Stove League presented by
(10:02):
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at the Banks. The official twenty twenty six Reds Hall
of Fame Induction Fan Vote presented by P and C,
is now open exclusively online. Cast your vote to help
decide which of Cincinnati's modern day greats will be enshrined
into the Reds Hall of Fame. Vote now Red's Museum
(10:23):
Dot or You have until Thursday night to vote so
you better get on it, run it out of time.
You don't want to be sitting there full of turkey
on Thursday night trying to figure out who you want
to vote for for the Hall of Fame. So go
ahead and do it now if you haven't. We're visiting
with Red's pitching coach Derek Johnson.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
DJ.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
We talked about before there were a lot of guys
that made progress this year, and I thought took huge steps.
This is a by and large young pitching staff. The
core of this pitching staff is young and still is young,
even though they've got some experience under their belt. Now
let's start with Hunter. I mean, obviously he's the biggest
name of the group. He's a guy that ever since
he got the big leagues, had ace potential, and we
(11:02):
really saw him kind of realize that potential when he
was healthy this year. What, in your eyes allowed him
to take that next step and take such a huge
step forward this year.
Speaker 5 (11:12):
Yeah, I think Hunter did a really nice job in
the offseason. I think he finally kind of put a
routine together, stuck with it.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
He worked really hard.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
And it's not that he's not been a good worker
prior to that, but I just think that he kind
of figured out the things that he needed.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
To do to be successful.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
It was pretty evident from the first day of spring training,
Like you could see the leap that he took and
he you know, he definitely deserves all the credit for
it because he was the one who put in the work.
But yeah, I mean, if we can keep him on
the field, we got a shot to win every game
that he pitches. At least he'd like to believe that.
So that's got to be our deal for next year,
(11:51):
is like, how do we keep Hunter healthy.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And how do you I mean, the slider improved so
much and still working on a third pitch? I know,
is that one of the things that you'll be cranking
into the brain and muscle memory, etcetera.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Trying to work on that third pitch? Where do you
think that stands right now?
Speaker 5 (12:11):
Yeah, you know, it's the split and he changed his
grip on it two years ago, and I thought it
took a step then I thought it was pretty good.
Really now it's about landing it and getting kind of
more chase with it. Like I think it's he's probably
got to put it in a little bit of a
different area. So he's going to get more swing at
And if he gets more swing at it, then you know,
I think it's gonna bode really.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Well for him.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
It's just a pitch that at times the hitters kind
of like they just check off on they're not going
to swing at it.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Should he throw it more?
Speaker 4 (12:39):
I don't know if you should throw it more.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
I just think he's got to throw it a little
bit better, which is I think totally possible with him.
I think it's, you know, it's the same as it
as I always is with a new pitch. He you know,
you learn it, and you have to kind of throw
a lot of bad ones until you get to all
the good ones. And I think he'sill enough bad ones.
He's getting to some good ones now and maybe he'll
get some more this year.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Throwing it better I did to dive in on that
a little bit, because better can mean a lot of things.
Better can mean the pitch has more break, it has
more movement, more depth later break. However, it could it
could come down to that the pitch itself. Throwing it
better could mean using it in better spots or just
throwing it more for strikes. For you, what does that?
What does better, mean, like, what does that look like.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
It's certainly not a shape.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
I mean, a shape is fine on it, It's it's
not a velocity kind of thing. I think it goes
back to, you know, when you own a pitch versus
renting it. And I think right now he's kind of
renting it with maybe an option to buy, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
But when you when.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
You own a pitch, you know you you know when
you need to throw it for a strike, and you
know when you need to throw it kind of like
a strike to ball kind of feel. Some guys even
get as good and to be able to throw it
like it looks like a ball and comes back as
a strike. So I think when you own the pitch,
that's what I'm talking about when I say it needs
to be better.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
It's not a shape thing. It's not a speed thing.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
It's not necessarily even like in the counts he did
or didn't throw it in. I think for him it's
just it's commanding it better.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You talked about the work ethic.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Now there's a lot of guys that may work hard,
but learning how to do the work that gets you
through one hundred and sixty two games as a starter.
So that's what thirty two to thirty three starts. That's
a whole different animal. Is it possible for guys to
just know how to do that. It's possible. Very few
guys have done it when they've got to the big
league's ball. Skiens being one of them, you mentioned him earlier.
(14:30):
But most guys don't know how to do that. That
I feel like is something that takes a lot of
practice and a lot of learning.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
It is because they've never seen that before. I mean,
unfortunately and sometimes fortunately all at the same time. In
the minor leagues, they don't necessarily get to experience that.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
We're gonna protect them a little bit more.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
They are kind of a precious commodity for us, so
you know, they don't ever really experience that one hundred
and sixty two game grind and hey, you know what,
you're gonna make thirty five starts, and you know you
might go six or seven each each one of those starts.
So I do think it's a learned trade. It's something
that guys have to figure out as they go. You
(15:08):
certainly see at least three of our guys, Hunter and
Lodolo and Abbott, like those guys are all.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Kind of learning that all at the same time.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Speaking of which Lodolo, what he made twenty eight starts.
Didn't quite get to the thirty mark, but it's a
definite step in the right direction. As far as him
pitching throughout the season, he had the injury problems, the
leg problems. He couldn't even do PfP for a couple
of years. How important was this last year for him
(15:39):
to just get through that grind?
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Great stuff? I mean, it was a great stuff for him.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
Actually, just talked with Rob Foo mcgal w he was
their strength and conditioning coach. Yesterday or the day before.
He had just seen Nick and he said Nick was
even stronger than when he was at the end of
the year or all year.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
If you could tell right spring training his body was different.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
He was getting there. Yeah, but he said he's even
stronger now. So yeah, I mean, I was really proud
that he made the twenty eight starts. I think it
was a good step in the right direction for him.
Andrew started off on the shelf a little bit early
in the year. He also kind of did the same
thing once he got there, you know, he made his
starts and kept it going.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
For Lodolo, the blister issue keeps pomping up, and I
know he's got a unique grip on that pitch, so
and it's a nasty pitch.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
So I'm not sure you want to change it.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
But is there anything you can do to combat it
because it keeps showing up.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
Yeah, we've put a file on his hand and he
files that a good bit. He's got a better callous
on it than he's ever had. He just kind of
has I don't know what you want to call it,
a kind of moist figures. You know, he definitely doesn't
need to put any lotion on it, that's for sure,
but it is getting a little rougher where it needs to.
(16:52):
There are guys who have gone their entire career with
blister problems and they've had to manage it just exactly
the way Nick is. So you know, we're hoping that
the stuff that we're trying to do it will help him,
but there is no guarantee. If it's a wet night,
especially the wet nights that's really what gets him.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
He has a tendency to flare up.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
You talk about the blister and the callous is the
best it's ever been, and you need that right in
a situation like that. Those things tend to go away
a little bit when you're not throwing as much throughout
the course of an off season. So how do you
kind of maintain the callous so it's still there to
help him get through next season? Throughout the off season,
do you have to do callous training?
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Yeah, kind of.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
I mean that's where the file comes into play. It's
where the Emory board comes into play. Nick didn't take
very much time off from throwing too. I mean he
is throwing maybe a little bit more than what he
normally does. The intensity is still pretty low, so I
feel like that I think he can maintain it. You know,
you never know. He might bang up his shoulder or
(17:53):
his ankle or whatever, and you just don't know. But
I think if you continue on this path, he'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
We're visiting with Red's pitching coach and director of Pitching,
Derek Johnson. We've got more with him when we come
back halfter the bottom of the hour here on the
Reds Radio Network. Welcome back in It's the Buttwiser Reds
Hot Stove League presented by UDF. We are live with
(18:19):
the bet MGM sportsbook. Inside Tom's watch bar at the
Banks Reds fans. Now is the time to get your
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for details. We're visiting with Red's pitching coach and Director
(18:41):
of Pitching Derek Johnson, talking all things Reds pitching. We
were talking about a couple of starters. We didn't even
get to everybody. We just kind of glossed over and Rabbit,
But this is a guy that got some cy young
votes last year, DJ, and he was kind of the
anchor of this staff. He was there, made all the
starts you talked about. It got a little bit of
a late start, but really not too much in the
(19:02):
big scheme of things. He was one of the best
pitchers in baseball before the All Star break. Wasn't quite
as good after the break. But it's kind of hard
to continue the success he had in the first half.
What was it that you noticed the most about him
that kind of allowed him to take that next step.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
He and I tucked a lot in the off season,
just about taking care of his pitches a little bit better.
So I felt like his command was better, his count control,
his count leverage was better. A lot of times you
go back to the things that you learned in little leagues, like,
you know, if you throw strikes and you throw them
a lot and you get ahead in the count, god
things happen. And you know, you're telling your eight year
(19:39):
old that, and sometimes I'm telling him twenty eight or
of you know, thirty two year old that as well.
So I thought for him it was it was really
about count control. And I think he did a great job. Actually,
those three guys that we talked about earlier, they all
did a really good.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Job with count control.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
A lot of first pitch strikes, they got ahead of
the header, which you know it this day and age, like,
if you can get ahead, they're gonna be apt to
chase a little bit more. It's just an easier game
for you to play, uh, And I just thought they
did a great job of that.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
As a pitching coach, You've got a great present under
the tree a year ago.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
His name is Chase Burns.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
All Right, this dude throws triple digits. He's got a
wipeout slider in a great makeup with that being said,
what's next? How can he make the next step?
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Yeah, I mean he's kind of the guy that you
just wind up and let him go and you know,
hope he doesn't run out of gas before before the
game's over. But what a story. I mean, you know,
you think about it. This kid was in college literally
a year ago. He flew through the minor leagues. It really,
I'm not even sure it was much of a challenge
for him. He got to the big leagues and really
flashed some pretty promising things. So, you know, it's like
(20:49):
any other young pitcher, it's you know, how do you
perfect your craft?
Speaker 4 (20:53):
How do you get better at.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
What you do on the on the days that you
that you pitch and then on the days that you
don't pitch. He's pretty well versed. He went to a
really good college. They i think did a really nice
job of coaching him there. But then it's again talking
about that next step. The next step is the big league.
So what do you have to do in the big
leagues to be successful? But you know, from a pitch standpoint,
(21:15):
the fastball is obviously plenty good with it being one
hundred miles an hour. The slider looked really hard to hit.
It didn't seem like very many hitters squared it up
at all. He's actually got a really good change up
too that he didn't show quite as much. But it's
a really promising pitch that he's used and used in
the minor leagues more. It was good at times, and
(21:37):
we put a two seam in his hand. We're kind
of just.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Playing with that a little bit right now.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
But the two seamen has really really nasty movement on it,
and I mean it's pretty gnarly, So we're going to
try to figure out kind of how to maybe use that.
I don't want to take anything away from his four seam,
which is always my fear when you put another pitch
in a guy's hand, but I think in this case
like it does make sense to at least exper with it.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
There are a lot of schools of thought on moving
a guy to the bullpen, especially a young pitcher. You
did that with him at the end of the year
last year, got him with the finish line out of
the bullpen. Now some of that you can look at
and say, well, it could be a benefit because he's
pitching more frequently in big league action, so he gets
more feedback from big league hitters, what do you think
(22:23):
and what did you want to see him gain from
that taste of the bullpen last year, even though he
is still a major league starter moving forward.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
So we also had to satisfy his innings total from
the year before, and you know, the last thing that
you want to do with a young pitcher is move
them up in number of innings, and you know, go
from maybe one hundred and ten innings to now one hundred.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
And fifty or sixty.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
It's where a lot of injuries occur, you know, So
we were just kind of trying to honor that as
much as we could to keep him under that threshold.
The other thing was, it's like it was kind of
a secret weapon or could have been, you know, with
this guy coming out for an inning or two and
just absolutely getting after it. We felt like it would
help us on the back end of some games dead.
(23:09):
You know, there was also a learning curve for him
on that as well, So you know, it was kind
of something that we had to do just to satisfy
a lot of boxes that we had to check.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Talking a lot of pitching today on the Butdweiser reds
Hot Stove League with Reds pitching coach Derek Johnson.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Still plenty more to get do.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
We barely scratch the surface, and we're starting to run
low on time, but we've gotten more when we come
back here on the Reds Radio Network, it's the Butdweiser
Red's Hot Stove League, and we are coming to you
live at the bet MGM Sports Book inside Tom's Watch
Bar at the Banks.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
It's all presented by ud F. Twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Single game tickets are on sale now and for a
limited time, you can buy your single game tickets with
no fees. Say big on the most exciting matchups next season.
For tickets and more information, visit Reds dot com slash tickets.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Hurry.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
This no fees offer ends soon. I don't know what
soon means, but soon as soon. We're talking with Red's
pitching coach and Director of Pitching Derek Johnson. We've barely
scratched the surface on some of the things.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Quick the nuts and both.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Running out of time quickly. We've we've talked about most
of the starters.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I want to get into some of the guys in
the bullpen because you were talking about with Chase Burns
and the innings and how that can can play out.
I think when we think of innings, we usually think
of starters. But one guy that blew by his previous
innings numbers was a reliever, Tony Santia. I mean, you
talk about the workload and being able to answer the
bell every time the phone rings. This guy did it
(24:43):
day in and day out, and he did a darn
good job of it. How careful do you have to
be with a guy that's young like Tony. He's going
into an offseason where he just pitched a ton You
talked about wanting to give guys a break. Do you
almost have to stay on him so he doesn't get
going too early?
Speaker 4 (24:59):
This? Yeah, Spring training will be really interesting with him.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
I mean, I think we probably need to push him
back a little bit and give him a little bit
more time, or as much time as we can, and
yet still have him ready for the beginning of the season.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
You know, that kid's a bull though.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
I mean, anyone who's ever been around him, you've seen
him like he's He's incredibly strong. He's one of the
most powerful kids we have on our team.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
You know, and he has built for that.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
At the same time, you hope that his arm doesn't
fall off anytime soon either, So you know, you really
have to manage, you know, the best that you can.
And like I said, I'm going to give him some
time at the at least the front end of spring
training and see we can get him going.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
As we sit here, now, let's assume that you don't
dip into free agency for a possible closer or trade
for one. Would Santion fit that bill? How would you
feel that? Or is he would come in in any
situation and put out fires, whether it be six seven,
eight nine, which is so valuable as you know.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Where would you stand on that right now?
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Yeah? I don't.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
We don't have enough right now to stand kind of anywhere.
I mean, could he do it? I think he could.
I think he's tough enough. I think he has the
heartbeat for it. You know, we got really lucky with
with Emilio and how he performed this year. I mean,
we didn't necessarily slay him as our as our closer,
and here we are, you know, however many saves it
was later and he did just such a phenomenal job
(26:24):
for us and really put it himself in them in
a great situation. But you know, going into the season,
and we didn't necessarily have a closer either. You know,
we kind of felt like we had two or three
guys that would audition for it. I suspect it'll be
the same way this year too. I mean, you know Graham,
you know, Graham Ashcraft, Tony, maybe even Connor Phillips.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
You know, those guys maybe have the tools or the
makings for it.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
Hopefully we we acquire a couple more guys too, we
can maybe figure it out from there.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
You mentioned Graham. I'm in the camp. I think Jim.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Not to speak for Jim, but I we talk all
the time, and and not just when we're on the air.
But I think there were a lot of us that
thought that once, if and when Graham Ashcraft moved to
the bullpen, he would be just lights out and in
short time would probably end up pitching his way into
the closer's role. It didn't quite happen that way. He
showed flashes of being really good out of the bullpen.
(27:18):
He also showed that there's still some work to be done.
How does he get to the next step And you
kind of mentioned his name there as a guy that
could be a candidate, How.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Does he get to that point.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
Yeah, I mean for him, he's just got to be
able to harness his stuff. I mean it's really nasty.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
You know.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
The slider took I think a step in the right direction.
He's always thrown the fastball that cuts. He had to
learn how to throw the ball against right handed hitters
a little a little more this year, which he did.
We dropped a pitch that he had before that just
really it probably wasn't a very good pitch overall, you know,
So boiling stuff down for him and simplifying it and
(27:57):
just helping him harness his stuff is probably the direction
that will go the most.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
How do you harness a guy like Luise Maye? Two
guys big sugar as well, whoever large arm, big arms,
great stuff, but hit inconsistency and we're hit up at
times and other times were dominant. I mean Luis may
particularly with that arm, how do you.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Hold that in?
Speaker 5 (28:21):
Yeah, that's a great question. If you guys know the answer,
or anyone out here. If you guys know the answer,
let me know. But I think with Louise, the trajectory
for him is if you saw him two years ago,
he didn't throw strikes or he didn't throw very many
strikes at all, and you know, all of a sudden
he started throwing more of them, and he put himself
(28:43):
in a position to be in the big leagues this year.
So I think you just have to kind of keep following,
hopefully following that trajectory of if you throw it through
that rectangle a lot, then good things are going to happen.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
I think you can say the same thing for Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
You were talking earlier about when this organization, and it
goes way back to something you said in the first
part of the show, bringing guys in from the outside
that know how to have success in this organization. The
personnel you bring in is a big part of this
team's overall success. When you're bringing guys in here, what
are the things that you look for to be able
(29:18):
to have success. I mean, Great American Ballpark has never
been a pitcher's haven, but yet here the last few years,
it feels like the pitching has been the strength of
this team and they've been among the best in baseball.
What are the things that matter when you're looking at
guys to bring into the organization.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Well, the one thing I don't think matters, and I
think we spent maybe a little bit too much time
on it early on. Was you know, we did want
the ground ball pitcher because we felt like, you know,
it is a small ballpark, it would make sense to
put the ball on the ground. We are actually, I
think the number one or two team in fly ball
rate this year, and not necessarily by design, but you know,
(29:58):
for me, it kind of is some I want guys
who can throw the ball across the plate. I want
guys who can make hitters swing and miss, and you know,
when they do hit the ball, we're going to try
to limit hard contact. And I think if we can
do those three things kind of no matter how you're
frying it up, if you can do two of those things,
you're gonna be really good. If you do all three
(30:19):
of them, you're gonna be excellent. And so now we're
looking for probably two of those three characteristics, and if
a guy possesses all three.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Of them, and well, that's that's good.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
I want to ask you real quick, before we run
out of time, a couple of guys that I think
are gonna play prominent roles that you're kind of holding
in your back pocket coming back from injury. Where is
Rhett Louder at right now, where do you see him
fitting in next year? And Brad Williamson is a guy
that really not talked about a lot of left hand
arm before he went down with injury. Was really showing
(30:51):
some promise and signs. Where are both of those guys.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
At right now?
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Yeah, they're both healthy on there on return to throw.
I think Louder is maybe a little bit ahead of him.
He did pitch in the All League for a little while.
He wanted to have a little bit of a normal offseason,
which I get. So he's put himself in a really
good position. He'll he'll he'll work for a job in
spring training. We'll kind of see where the chips fall.
(31:14):
Brandon was, as you said, like he was really promising.
I mean, we got a lot out of him, and
I wasn't sure what we were going to get when
we first acquired him. So that would be a cool,
cool surprise if he comes on and you know, does
what he's capable of doing.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
We're visiting with Reds pitching coach Derek Johnson. We are
live at the bet MGM Sportsbook inside Tom's Watch Bar
at the Banks. This is the Butdwiser Red Hot Stove
League presented by u d F.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
We wrap it up next on the Reds Radio Network, Wrap.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
It Up the Buttweise the Red Hot Stove League presented
by u DF Live, Bet, MGM Sportsbook, Inside Tom's Watch
Bar at the Banks before he run out of time,
Big thanks to everybody that's helped make the show gospel.
Dave Abbott is our on site engineer today. Joe Waddell's
running the dials back in our network headquarters. Derek Johnson's
been our guest all hour long today and we are
still not out of things to talk with DJ about.
(32:12):
So before we run out of time and we are
getting close to the end, you know, you look at
this bullpen. There are some things you want to update
in the bullpen. There's obviously some guys that that you
need to replace. So when that time comes and the
front office is looking at guys, how much say do
you have? And and who comes into the organization from
(32:34):
the outside, and and and did they did they pick
your brain a little bit on what you can see,
especially guys that that might be looking for a bounce
back year.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
It's a pretty good collaboration. I will tell you though,
straight up, I have no say, okay at all, oh, which.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Is good now.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
But what happens is, you know, we put the together
our our whiteboard of all the names of all the
pictures on the planet. Uh, and then you know, from
there we kind of go down the list. Who can
we afford, who maybe might be available, who can we
get in a trade, you know, so on and so forth,
and that number boils down. You start getting a smaller pot.
(33:12):
You know, they'll ask me to look at ten to
twelve guys that I'll try to break down, you know,
but there is a lot of information we have and
it's really just kind of a collaboration between all the
folks in the front office and some other guys around
and the offices.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
You guys have been creative about getting together and kind
of just having a summit, if you will, with young pitchers, catchers,
et cetera. Got anything going in that regard this year.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Yeah, we do.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
We have our annual Battery Camp, which I think is
January fifth through ninth, and we're gonna run it a
little bit different. I think we're gonna bring all of
the big league staff. It'll give us a chance to
meet and talk. We've got some new faces and I
think Tito just kind of wanted to get us all
together in one big group. I think, you know, we'll
do some work kind of stuff too, So looking forward
(33:55):
to that. It's a you know, it's a good concept.
It's about basically catchers, pitchers, younger catchers and pitchers, and it's.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Just kind of spending time with him.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
We'll try to put some education stuff out there for
him and you know, let him throw a little bit too.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
So probably be a little different for you, Jr.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
House not only your friend, but the Reds catching coach,
third base coach. You guys work pretty closely together. Is
that gonna be a tough transition for you this year?
Speaker 4 (34:21):
It is for me.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
I mean, I love Jr. And he and I spent
a lot of time together. He's one of my dearest
friends in the world. So I think, you know, he
put himself in a great position. I'm really happy for
him and making the move. It's definitely gonna be a
good thing for his family, But for me, you know,
it stings.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
DJ Thanks so much for coming on with us. Appreciate it.
Always great to chat.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
With you, all right, you guys too, Probably.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Good chance we talked to him again. Red's Pitching Coach
Director Pitching Derek Johnson. That's all the time we have
for you for today. Have a very safe Thanksgiving, eat
lots of turkey, and enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
For Jim Day, I'm Tommy Thraw. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
We'll talk to you again next week right here on
the Reds Radio Network.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Good Night,
Well, come in Happy Turkey Day week.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It is the Budweiser Reds Hot Stove League presented by
u DF. Were live of the bet MGM Sportsbook inside
Tom's Watch Bar at the Banks with jim Day. I'm
Tommy Throw talking Reds Baseball with you for the next
hour and we have a great guest on with us today.
Jimmy always love talking not just not just pitching, but
baseball with Derek Johnson.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
He's one of those guys that I'm not sure there's
ever been a baseball conversation I've ever had that I
didn't learn something right.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
So let's learn something all right. Put on your learning hat.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Derek Johnson, Red's pitching coach, director of pitching for the Reds,
joins us today and he is so graciously, whether willingly
or unwillingly, he's agreed to spend the entire hour with
us today.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I know all sixty minute. Isn't that amazing? That's great?
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Hey, thanks so much for joining us. What's your what's
your off season been like to this point? I mean
is what is I mean? You wear a lot of hats.
We said the director of You're not just the big
League pitching coach. You've got your hands in a lot
of different things. So what does your off season look like?
What have you been up to?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Nothing? Cool?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
All right, great?
Speaker 5 (01:09):
Next, just the few things. Hiring some minor league coaches.
We had to hire a coach on our staff as well.
Player plans, you know, trying to get that together for
the development over the wintertime, and you know, just sort
of general putting out fires here and there, and you know,
(01:29):
really really looking forward.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
To next year.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Any time for recreation or doing anything fun.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Yeah, here and there.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
You know, it's it's not it's not all all work
and no play, but you know, generally I'll spend my
day doing something with the Reds and then you know,
whatever it is at night.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
You just mentioned having to hire another coach. You have
your assistant pitching coaches. A few of them have now
advanced to be pitching coaches. So are you the I
don't know, are the soothsayer of pitching coaches to be?
And how tough is that to say say goodbye and
to go out and hire someone.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
I think I'm really good at hiring people.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Maybe I wouldn't say that I'm any sort of soothsayer
anything like that. But you know, we lost Simon a
couple of weeks ago. He's going to go to the
Nationals to be their their major league pitching coach, and
you know, I'm proud of each one of them moved on.
It's I think it's why we do it. It's why,
you know, you want to see people who work under
(02:29):
you to go on to bigger and better things. And
we've been pretty fortunate We've had a few guys do that.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Matt Tracy's been your bullpen coach the last few years now,
and he's really gotten to know these pitchers on this
staff really well.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I always hear good things about him.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I've enjoyed the conversations that I've had with with Matt.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Now he is your assistant pitching coach. Let's start there.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
How much different is his role going to be and
how much does his familiarity kind of help ease that transition.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I'm excited for Maddie.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
I mean, it's something when we talked about it, he
really wants to do it, so I thought that was great.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
We've got two left.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
Handers side by side, and I'm not so sure that
Oscar Marin our new bullpen coach. He also might be
left handed, so we've got some lefties in the room,
which can spell trouble here and there. But Matty is
excited about doing the job. I think I think he'll
be very, very good at it. I don't feel like
we're going to lose a whole lot of traction with
(03:24):
where we're at right right now with him being in
that role, so really excited for him. It'll give him
a chance to be in the dugout, which he hasn't
been so far in the major leagues. He's been in
the bullpen, so that it'll be another kind of piece
to his development as well.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
You left, he stick together, I mean, you like migrate
together in a herd, it seems to be.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
And Matt can also be a guy.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
If you need someone live hitting session, can step in
there and swing the bat.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Yeah, he's not bad.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
I mean, he was a two way player in college
and he was drafted as a pitcher. I think he
did dabble with hitting for a little while in Pro Bowl.
I'm not sure how long that lasted. But you know,
he's actually still a really good athlete, and he keeps
his arm in shape, and you.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Know, he face hunter there.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
He didn't put the ball and play at least a
little bit, so I think it was ashcraft.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It was okay, right because no one you go around
as like lefties.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, the lefties like no chance. Supplies are getting limited.
I mean, you can't go up there and break a
bunch of Now.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
With with Oscar Marine, you talked about him. This is
a guy that's been a big league pitching coach. What
do you want to what did you like about him?
I know you guys have known each other for a
long time, so I'm sure that made him a pretty
easy hire.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But what is it about him that stands out?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, I mean his experience.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
He was with the Pirates for the last six years
as their their main guy. You know, I've I've hired
a lot of assistants or we've hired a lot of
assistants and bullpen coaches who have been younger, which is great.
I think Oscar brings an element of you know, just
experience that we haven't quite had here yet. So I'm
looking forward to saying, Okay, hey man, how'd you do it?
(05:10):
What did you do with the Pirates? You know, and
the Pirates have pitched really well for the last couple
of years, I got a guy named Skiings.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
I think it's sort of schemes. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Uh, he's pretty good. And they've got some other guys too.
But I I do think Oscar did a really good
job there. I think he was well liked there. I'm
really looking forward to to putting him, you know, in
our in our organization, with with our team.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
I think he's going to make us better.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
How much of a difference is it in roles between
assistant pitching coach and bullpen coach and all.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
That, like what what? How does how do you divvy
up the workload and responsibilities there?
Speaker 5 (05:42):
There's not there's not a ton I mean, obviously the
ones in the bullpen and he's answering the phone and
making sure guys are ready, and there is like that's
I call him the band of pirates down there, that
that's kind of what they are. So he does have
to kind of keep that ship afloat. And there's weird
stuff that goes on down there that I don't even
really want to know about. But you know, there's not
a ton of differences. There's probably a little bit more
(06:05):
paperwork on the assistant end of things, or at least
there can be there's homework, there's there's questions that I
ask that, you know, hey, can you find out the
answer to you know this, that or the other. He's
also in direct kind of you know, relationships with our
biomech guy.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
You know, some other folks around you know the team.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
You had mentioned the off season, and you are also
also the in charge of all Reds pitching throughout the
minor league system. How does it work with the exit
interviews with pitchers and what's your I know it's different
for each individual perhaps, but what's your general philosophy on
off season programs, conditioning, what's going on right now? How
(06:46):
much do you stay in contact with guys? When do
you want them to start ramping up, et cetera. I
leave them alone for a while. I think they need that,
so do I.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
I mean, we see one another for one hundred and
eighty straight days, and you know, after a little while,
it's not not such a bad thing to be apart.
But you know, once we start kind of going back
to them, some of it is maintenance, some of it
is you know, what help do you need? So often
these guys now have their own kind of programming. They
have guys that they work with in the off season.
(07:14):
We're going to give them whatever it is that they need.
Our strength and conditioning folks are biomechanical folks, are.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Training crew.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
All of them are in contact as well, and we
do have a player plan for each guy and it
goes from anything baseball or pitching wise. It will go
into the strength and conditioning needs, that will go into
the athletic training needs, and so it is comprehensive, and
it's also kind of a pick and choose. You know,
we've got a lot of younger pitchers, so those guys
(07:45):
are probably going to take more of our information. The
older guys are the guys who have been around. You know,
it's kind of hard telling. It's it's a little bit
of a mismatch. There's some of them really like it.
Some of them have their own guys and do their
own so it's really just to kind of support them
in whatever way that they would would need it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Kind of talking about some of the young guys, we
saw some of these guys come up to the big
leagues this year and have success at the major league
level right away.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
It seems like we're seeing that more and more within
this organization.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
When guys come up from the minor leagues, they seem
poised to have success at the major league level. How
do you kind of make sure guys are prepared in
the minor leagues to be able to contribute when they
get to the big leagues? And have you seen that
improve in your time here?
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Yeah, And I think it falls directly on your development team.
And so we have three coordinators who are really really
good at what they do, and we have good coaches
in the minor leagues that you know, we've kind of
handpicked over the last couple of years. It's a really
important thing for the Reds. Obviously, we can't go out,
we can't spend you know, millions upon millions of dollars
(08:54):
on pitching, so we have to grow it and we've
done a pretty good job of that. I think we
have the first or second most homegrown pitchers in the league,
So we're doing something right. You got to take another
step with that too, and it's our acquisitions and it's
our scouting. We've done a pretty good job with that
as well. So I think, you know, when you have
(09:16):
kind of those three elements going and you know, these
kids are going.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
To be more prepared and we're ready.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
The last thing I'd say on that though, is they
aren't always ready. It takes a little while, but our
development folks have done a really good job with that.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
You talked about bringing guys in.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I want to get more into that too a little
bit later on in the show, but also want to
break down some of these guys that took big steps
this year, and there were a lot of them that did.
We're visiting with Red's pitching coach Director of Pitching for
the Reds, Derek Johnson. It's the Budweiser Reds Hot Stove
League presented by UDF, and we're live at the bet
MGAM Sportsbook inside Tom's Watch Bartha Banks on the Reds
Radio Network. Otherwise, the Red's Hot Stove League presented by
(10:02):
UDF Live at bet MGM Sportsbook inside Tom's Watch Bar
at the Banks. The official twenty twenty six Reds Hall
of Fame Induction Fan Vote presented by P and C,
is now open exclusively online. Cast your vote to help
decide which of Cincinnati's modern day greats will be enshrined
into the Reds Hall of Fame. Vote now Red's Museum
(10:23):
Dot or You have until Thursday night to vote so
you better get on it, run it out of time.
You don't want to be sitting there full of turkey
on Thursday night trying to figure out who you want
to vote for for the Hall of Fame. So go
ahead and do it now if you haven't. We're visiting
with Red's pitching coach Derek Johnson.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
DJ.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
We talked about before there were a lot of guys
that made progress this year, and I thought took huge steps.
This is a by and large young pitching staff. The
core of this pitching staff is young and still is young,
even though they've got some experience under their belt. Now
let's start with Hunter. I mean, obviously he's the biggest
name of the group. He's a guy that ever since
he got the big leagues, had ace potential, and we
(11:02):
really saw him kind of realize that potential when he
was healthy this year. What, in your eyes allowed him
to take that next step and take such a huge
step forward this year.
Speaker 5 (11:12):
Yeah, I think Hunter did a really nice job in
the offseason. I think he finally kind of put a
routine together, stuck with it.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
He worked really hard.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
And it's not that he's not been a good worker
prior to that, but I just think that he kind
of figured out the things that he needed.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
To do to be successful.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
It was pretty evident from the first day of spring training,
Like you could see the leap that he took and
he you know, he definitely deserves all the credit for
it because he was the one who put in the work.
But yeah, I mean, if we can keep him on
the field, we got a shot to win every game
that he pitches. At least he'd like to believe that.
So that's got to be our deal for next year,
(11:51):
is like, how do we keep Hunter healthy.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And how do you I mean, the slider improved so
much and still working on a third pitch? I know,
is that one of the things that you'll be cranking
into the brain and muscle memory, etcetera.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Trying to work on that third pitch? Where do you
think that stands right now?
Speaker 5 (12:11):
Yeah, you know, it's the split and he changed his
grip on it two years ago, and I thought it
took a step then I thought it was pretty good.
Really now it's about landing it and getting kind of
more chase with it. Like I think it's he's probably
got to put it in a little bit of a
different area. So he's going to get more swing at
And if he gets more swing at it, then you know,
I think it's gonna bode really.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Well for him.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
It's just a pitch that at times the hitters kind
of like they just check off on they're not going
to swing at it.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Should he throw it more?
Speaker 4 (12:39):
I don't know if you should throw it more.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
I just think he's got to throw it a little
bit better, which is I think totally possible with him.
I think it's, you know, it's the same as it
as I always is with a new pitch. He you know,
you learn it, and you have to kind of throw
a lot of bad ones until you get to all
the good ones. And I think he'sill enough bad ones.
He's getting to some good ones now and maybe he'll
get some more this year.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Throwing it better I did to dive in on that
a little bit, because better can mean a lot of things.
Better can mean the pitch has more break, it has
more movement, more depth later break. However, it could it
could come down to that the pitch itself. Throwing it
better could mean using it in better spots or just
throwing it more for strikes. For you, what does that?
What does better, mean, like, what does that look like.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
It's certainly not a shape.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
I mean, a shape is fine on it, It's it's
not a velocity kind of thing. I think it goes
back to, you know, when you own a pitch versus
renting it. And I think right now he's kind of
renting it with maybe an option to buy, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
But when you when.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
You own a pitch, you know you you know when
you need to throw it for a strike, and you
know when you need to throw it kind of like
a strike to ball kind of feel. Some guys even
get as good and to be able to throw it
like it looks like a ball and comes back as
a strike. So I think when you own the pitch,
that's what I'm talking about when I say it needs
to be better.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
It's not a shape thing. It's not a speed thing.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
It's not necessarily even like in the counts he did
or didn't throw it in. I think for him it's
just it's commanding it better.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You talked about the work ethic.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Now there's a lot of guys that may work hard,
but learning how to do the work that gets you
through one hundred and sixty two games as a starter.
So that's what thirty two to thirty three starts. That's
a whole different animal. Is it possible for guys to
just know how to do that. It's possible. Very few
guys have done it when they've got to the big
league's ball. Skiens being one of them, you mentioned him earlier.
(14:30):
But most guys don't know how to do that. That
I feel like is something that takes a lot of
practice and a lot of learning.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
It is because they've never seen that before. I mean,
unfortunately and sometimes fortunately all at the same time. In
the minor leagues, they don't necessarily get to experience that.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
We're gonna protect them a little bit more.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
They are kind of a precious commodity for us, so
you know, they don't ever really experience that one hundred
and sixty two game grind and hey, you know what,
you're gonna make thirty five starts, and you know you
might go six or seven each each one of those starts.
So I do think it's a learned trade. It's something
that guys have to figure out as they go. You
(15:08):
certainly see at least three of our guys, Hunter and
Lodolo and Abbott, like those guys are all.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Kind of learning that all at the same time.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Speaking of which Lodolo, what he made twenty eight starts.
Didn't quite get to the thirty mark, but it's a
definite step in the right direction. As far as him
pitching throughout the season, he had the injury problems, the
leg problems. He couldn't even do PfP for a couple
of years. How important was this last year for him
(15:39):
to just get through that grind?
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Great stuff? I mean, it was a great stuff for him.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
Actually, just talked with Rob Foo mcgal w he was
their strength and conditioning coach. Yesterday or the day before.
He had just seen Nick and he said Nick was
even stronger than when he was at the end of
the year or all year.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
If you could tell right spring training his body was different.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
He was getting there. Yeah, but he said he's even
stronger now. So yeah, I mean, I was really proud
that he made the twenty eight starts. I think it
was a good step in the right direction for him.
Andrew started off on the shelf a little bit early
in the year. He also kind of did the same
thing once he got there, you know, he made his
starts and kept it going.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
For Lodolo, the blister issue keeps pomping up, and I
know he's got a unique grip on that pitch, so
and it's a nasty pitch.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
So I'm not sure you want to change it.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
But is there anything you can do to combat it
because it keeps showing up.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
Yeah, we've put a file on his hand and he
files that a good bit. He's got a better callous
on it than he's ever had. He just kind of
has I don't know what you want to call it,
a kind of moist figures. You know, he definitely doesn't
need to put any lotion on it, that's for sure,
but it is getting a little rougher where it needs to.
(16:52):
There are guys who have gone their entire career with
blister problems and they've had to manage it just exactly
the way Nick is. So you know, we're hoping that
the stuff that we're trying to do it will help him,
but there is no guarantee. If it's a wet night,
especially the wet nights that's really what gets him.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
He has a tendency to flare up.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
You talk about the blister and the callous is the
best it's ever been, and you need that right in
a situation like that. Those things tend to go away
a little bit when you're not throwing as much throughout
the course of an off season. So how do you
kind of maintain the callous so it's still there to
help him get through next season? Throughout the off season,
do you have to do callous training?
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Yeah, kind of.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
I mean that's where the file comes into play. It's
where the Emory board comes into play. Nick didn't take
very much time off from throwing too. I mean he
is throwing maybe a little bit more than what he
normally does. The intensity is still pretty low, so I
feel like that I think he can maintain it. You know,
you never know. He might bang up his shoulder or
(17:53):
his ankle or whatever, and you just don't know. But
I think if you continue on this path, he'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
We're visiting with Red's pitching coach and director of Pitching,
Derek Johnson. We've got more with him when we come
back halfter the bottom of the hour here on the
Reds Radio Network. Welcome back in It's the Buttwiser Reds
Hot Stove League presented by UDF. We are live with
(18:19):
the bet MGM sportsbook. Inside Tom's watch bar at the
Banks Reds fans. Now is the time to get your
twenty twenty six season tickets. Members sit in the same
seat for every game with their friends, family, and enjoyer
flexible ticket exchange program. Visit reds dot com slash membership
for details. We're visiting with Red's pitching coach and Director
(18:41):
of Pitching Derek Johnson, talking all things Reds pitching. We
were talking about a couple of starters. We didn't even
get to everybody. We just kind of glossed over and Rabbit,
But this is a guy that got some cy young
votes last year, DJ, and he was kind of the
anchor of this staff. He was there, made all the
starts you talked about. It got a little bit of
a late start, but really not too much in the
(19:02):
big scheme of things. He was one of the best
pitchers in baseball before the All Star break. Wasn't quite
as good after the break. But it's kind of hard
to continue the success he had in the first half.
What was it that you noticed the most about him
that kind of allowed him to take that next step.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
He and I tucked a lot in the off season,
just about taking care of his pitches a little bit better.
So I felt like his command was better, his count control,
his count leverage was better. A lot of times you
go back to the things that you learned in little leagues, like,
you know, if you throw strikes and you throw them
a lot and you get ahead in the count, god
things happen. And you know, you're telling your eight year
(19:39):
old that, and sometimes I'm telling him twenty eight or
of you know, thirty two year old that as well.
So I thought for him it was it was really
about count control. And I think he did a great job. Actually,
those three guys that we talked about earlier, they all
did a really good.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Job with count control.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
A lot of first pitch strikes, they got ahead of
the header, which you know it this day and age, like,
if you can get ahead, they're gonna be apt to
chase a little bit more. It's just an easier game
for you to play, uh, And I just thought they
did a great job of that.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
As a pitching coach, You've got a great present under
the tree a year ago.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
His name is Chase Burns.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
All Right, this dude throws triple digits. He's got a
wipeout slider in a great makeup with that being said,
what's next? How can he make the next step?
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Yeah, I mean he's kind of the guy that you
just wind up and let him go and you know,
hope he doesn't run out of gas before before the
game's over. But what a story. I mean, you know,
you think about it. This kid was in college literally
a year ago. He flew through the minor leagues. It really,
I'm not even sure it was much of a challenge
for him. He got to the big leagues and really
flashed some pretty promising things. So, you know, it's like
(20:49):
any other young pitcher, it's you know, how do you
perfect your craft?
Speaker 4 (20:53):
How do you get better at.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
What you do on the on the days that you
that you pitch and then on the days that you
don't pitch. He's pretty well versed. He went to a
really good college. They i think did a really nice
job of coaching him there. But then it's again talking
about that next step. The next step is the big league.
So what do you have to do in the big
leagues to be successful? But you know, from a pitch standpoint,
(21:15):
the fastball is obviously plenty good with it being one
hundred miles an hour. The slider looked really hard to hit.
It didn't seem like very many hitters squared it up
at all. He's actually got a really good change up
too that he didn't show quite as much. But it's
a really promising pitch that he's used and used in
the minor leagues more. It was good at times, and
(21:37):
we put a two seam in his hand. We're kind
of just.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Playing with that a little bit right now.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
But the two seamen has really really nasty movement on it,
and I mean it's pretty gnarly, So we're going to
try to figure out kind of how to maybe use that.
I don't want to take anything away from his four seam,
which is always my fear when you put another pitch
in a guy's hand, but I think in this case
like it does make sense to at least exper with it.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
There are a lot of schools of thought on moving
a guy to the bullpen, especially a young pitcher. You
did that with him at the end of the year
last year, got him with the finish line out of
the bullpen. Now some of that you can look at
and say, well, it could be a benefit because he's
pitching more frequently in big league action, so he gets
more feedback from big league hitters, what do you think
(22:23):
and what did you want to see him gain from
that taste of the bullpen last year, even though he
is still a major league starter moving forward.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
So we also had to satisfy his innings total from
the year before, and you know, the last thing that
you want to do with a young pitcher is move
them up in number of innings, and you know, go
from maybe one hundred and ten innings to now one hundred.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
And fifty or sixty.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
It's where a lot of injuries occur, you know, So
we were just kind of trying to honor that as
much as we could to keep him under that threshold.
The other thing was, it's like it was kind of
a secret weapon or could have been, you know, with
this guy coming out for an inning or two and
just absolutely getting after it. We felt like it would
help us on the back end of some games dead.
(23:09):
You know, there was also a learning curve for him
on that as well, So you know, it was kind
of something that we had to do just to satisfy
a lot of boxes that we had to check.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Talking a lot of pitching today on the Butdweiser reds
Hot Stove League with Reds pitching coach Derek Johnson.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Still plenty more to get do.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
We barely scratch the surface, and we're starting to run
low on time, but we've gotten more when we come
back here on the Reds Radio Network, it's the Butdweiser
Red's Hot Stove League, and we are coming to you
live at the bet MGM Sports Book inside Tom's Watch
Bar at the Banks.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
It's all presented by ud F. Twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Single game tickets are on sale now and for a
limited time, you can buy your single game tickets with
no fees. Say big on the most exciting matchups next season.
For tickets and more information, visit Reds dot com slash tickets.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Hurry.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
This no fees offer ends soon. I don't know what
soon means, but soon as soon. We're talking with Red's
pitching coach and Director of Pitching Derek Johnson. We've barely
scratched the surface on some of the things.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Quick the nuts and both.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Running out of time quickly. We've we've talked about most
of the starters.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I want to get into some of the guys in
the bullpen because you were talking about with Chase Burns
and the innings and how that can can play out.
I think when we think of innings, we usually think
of starters. But one guy that blew by his previous
innings numbers was a reliever, Tony Santia. I mean, you
talk about the workload and being able to answer the
bell every time the phone rings. This guy did it
(24:43):
day in and day out, and he did a darn
good job of it. How careful do you have to
be with a guy that's young like Tony. He's going
into an offseason where he just pitched a ton You
talked about wanting to give guys a break. Do you
almost have to stay on him so he doesn't get
going too early?
Speaker 4 (24:59):
This? Yeah, Spring training will be really interesting with him.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
I mean, I think we probably need to push him
back a little bit and give him a little bit
more time, or as much time as we can, and
yet still have him ready for the beginning of the season.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
You know, that kid's a bull though.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
I mean, anyone who's ever been around him, you've seen
him like he's He's incredibly strong. He's one of the
most powerful kids we have on our team.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
You know, and he has built for that.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
At the same time, you hope that his arm doesn't
fall off anytime soon either, So you know, you really
have to manage, you know, the best that you can.
And like I said, I'm going to give him some
time at the at least the front end of spring
training and see we can get him going.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
As we sit here, now, let's assume that you don't
dip into free agency for a possible closer or trade
for one. Would Santion fit that bill? How would you
feel that? Or is he would come in in any
situation and put out fires, whether it be six seven,
eight nine, which is so valuable as you know.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Where would you stand on that right now?
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Yeah? I don't.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
We don't have enough right now to stand kind of anywhere.
I mean, could he do it? I think he could.
I think he's tough enough. I think he has the
heartbeat for it. You know, we got really lucky with
with Emilio and how he performed this year. I mean,
we didn't necessarily slay him as our as our closer,
and here we are, you know, however many saves it
was later and he did just such a phenomenal job
(26:24):
for us and really put it himself in them in
a great situation. But you know, going into the season,
and we didn't necessarily have a closer either. You know,
we kind of felt like we had two or three
guys that would audition for it. I suspect it'll be
the same way this year too. I mean, you know Graham,
you know, Graham Ashcraft, Tony, maybe even Connor Phillips.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
You know, those guys maybe have the tools or the
makings for it.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
Hopefully we we acquire a couple more guys too, we
can maybe figure it out from there.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
You mentioned Graham. I'm in the camp. I think Jim.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Not to speak for Jim, but I we talk all
the time, and and not just when we're on the air.
But I think there were a lot of us that
thought that once, if and when Graham Ashcraft moved to
the bullpen, he would be just lights out and in
short time would probably end up pitching his way into
the closer's role. It didn't quite happen that way. He
showed flashes of being really good out of the bullpen.
(27:18):
He also showed that there's still some work to be done.
How does he get to the next step And you
kind of mentioned his name there as a guy that
could be a candidate, How.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Does he get to that point.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
Yeah, I mean for him, he's just got to be
able to harness his stuff. I mean it's really nasty.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
You know.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
The slider took I think a step in the right direction.
He's always thrown the fastball that cuts. He had to
learn how to throw the ball against right handed hitters
a little a little more this year, which he did.
We dropped a pitch that he had before that just
really it probably wasn't a very good pitch overall, you know,
So boiling stuff down for him and simplifying it and
(27:57):
just helping him harness his stuff is probably the direction
that will go the most.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
How do you harness a guy like Luise Maye? Two
guys big sugar as well, whoever large arm, big arms,
great stuff, but hit inconsistency and we're hit up at
times and other times were dominant. I mean Luis may
particularly with that arm, how do you.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Hold that in?
Speaker 5 (28:21):
Yeah, that's a great question. If you guys know the answer,
or anyone out here. If you guys know the answer,
let me know. But I think with Louise, the trajectory
for him is if you saw him two years ago,
he didn't throw strikes or he didn't throw very many
strikes at all, and you know, all of a sudden
he started throwing more of them, and he put himself
(28:43):
in a position to be in the big leagues this year.
So I think you just have to kind of keep following,
hopefully following that trajectory of if you throw it through
that rectangle a lot, then good things are going to happen.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
I think you can say the same thing for Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
You were talking earlier about when this organization, and it
goes way back to something you said in the first
part of the show, bringing guys in from the outside
that know how to have success in this organization. The
personnel you bring in is a big part of this
team's overall success. When you're bringing guys in here, what
are the things that you look for to be able
(29:18):
to have success. I mean, Great American Ballpark has never
been a pitcher's haven, but yet here the last few years,
it feels like the pitching has been the strength of
this team and they've been among the best in baseball.
What are the things that matter when you're looking at
guys to bring into the organization.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Well, the one thing I don't think matters, and I
think we spent maybe a little bit too much time
on it early on. Was you know, we did want
the ground ball pitcher because we felt like, you know,
it is a small ballpark, it would make sense to
put the ball on the ground. We are actually, I
think the number one or two team in fly ball
rate this year, and not necessarily by design, but you know,
(29:58):
for me, it kind of is some I want guys
who can throw the ball across the plate. I want
guys who can make hitters swing and miss, and you know,
when they do hit the ball, we're going to try
to limit hard contact. And I think if we can
do those three things kind of no matter how you're
frying it up, if you can do two of those things,
you're gonna be really good. If you do all three
(30:19):
of them, you're gonna be excellent. And so now we're
looking for probably two of those three characteristics, and if
a guy possesses all three.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Of them, and well, that's that's good.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
I want to ask you real quick, before we run
out of time, a couple of guys that I think
are gonna play prominent roles that you're kind of holding
in your back pocket coming back from injury. Where is
Rhett Louder at right now, where do you see him
fitting in next year? And Brad Williamson is a guy
that really not talked about a lot of left hand
arm before he went down with injury. Was really showing
(30:51):
some promise and signs. Where are both of those guys.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
At right now?
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Yeah, they're both healthy on there on return to throw.
I think Louder is maybe a little bit ahead of him.
He did pitch in the All League for a little while.
He wanted to have a little bit of a normal offseason,
which I get. So he's put himself in a really
good position. He'll he'll he'll work for a job in
spring training. We'll kind of see where the chips fall.
(31:14):
Brandon was, as you said, like he was really promising.
I mean, we got a lot out of him, and
I wasn't sure what we were going to get when
we first acquired him. So that would be a cool,
cool surprise if he comes on and you know, does
what he's capable of doing.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
We're visiting with Reds pitching coach Derek Johnson. We are
live at the bet MGM Sportsbook inside Tom's Watch Bar
at the Banks. This is the Butdwiser Red Hot Stove
League presented by u d F.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
We wrap it up next on the Reds Radio Network, Wrap.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
It Up the Buttweise the Red Hot Stove League presented
by u DF Live, Bet, MGM Sportsbook, Inside Tom's Watch
Bar at the Banks before he run out of time,
Big thanks to everybody that's helped make the show gospel.
Dave Abbott is our on site engineer today. Joe Waddell's
running the dials back in our network headquarters. Derek Johnson's
been our guest all hour long today and we are
still not out of things to talk with DJ about.
(32:12):
So before we run out of time and we are
getting close to the end, you know, you look at
this bullpen. There are some things you want to update
in the bullpen. There's obviously some guys that that you
need to replace. So when that time comes and the
front office is looking at guys, how much say do
you have? And and who comes into the organization from
(32:34):
the outside, and and and did they did they pick
your brain a little bit on what you can see,
especially guys that that might be looking for a bounce
back year.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
It's a pretty good collaboration. I will tell you though,
straight up, I have no say, okay at all, oh, which.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Is good now.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
But what happens is, you know, we put the together
our our whiteboard of all the names of all the
pictures on the planet. Uh, and then you know, from
there we kind of go down the list. Who can
we afford, who maybe might be available, who can we
get in a trade, you know, so on and so forth,
and that number boils down. You start getting a smaller pot.
(33:12):
You know, they'll ask me to look at ten to
twelve guys that I'll try to break down, you know,
but there is a lot of information we have and
it's really just kind of a collaboration between all the
folks in the front office and some other guys around
and the offices.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
You guys have been creative about getting together and kind
of just having a summit, if you will, with young pitchers, catchers,
et cetera. Got anything going in that regard this year.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Yeah, we do.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
We have our annual Battery Camp, which I think is
January fifth through ninth, and we're gonna run it a
little bit different. I think we're gonna bring all of
the big league staff. It'll give us a chance to
meet and talk. We've got some new faces and I
think Tito just kind of wanted to get us all
together in one big group. I think, you know, we'll
do some work kind of stuff too, So looking forward
(33:55):
to that. It's a you know, it's a good concept.
It's about basically catchers, pitchers, younger catchers and pitchers, and it's.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Just kind of spending time with him.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
We'll try to put some education stuff out there for
him and you know, let him throw a little bit too.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
So probably be a little different for you, Jr.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
House not only your friend, but the Reds catching coach,
third base coach. You guys work pretty closely together. Is
that gonna be a tough transition for you this year?
Speaker 4 (34:21):
It is for me.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
I mean, I love Jr. And he and I spent
a lot of time together. He's one of my dearest
friends in the world. So I think, you know, he
put himself in a great position. I'm really happy for
him and making the move. It's definitely gonna be a
good thing for his family, But for me, you know,
it stings.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
DJ Thanks so much for coming on with us. Appreciate it.
Always great to chat.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
With you, all right, you guys too, Probably.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Good chance we talked to him again. Red's Pitching Coach
Director Pitching Derek Johnson. That's all the time we have
for you for today. Have a very safe Thanksgiving, eat
lots of turkey, and enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
For Jim Day, I'm Tommy Thraw. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
We'll talk to you again next week right here on
the Reds Radio Network.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Good Night,
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