The Night Cap with Gary Jeff Walker -- 12/15/25

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wow, a brand new Nightcap on this Monday evening, December fifteenth,
twenty twenty five, counting down the days till Christmas, and
I can't get here soon enough for me. I don't
know about you, Gary, Jeff Walker. Welcome to the Nightcap.
And there are so many really, really awful stories floating
around in the news in the last twenty four hours,

(00:22):
including the apparent murder of Rob Reiner and his wife
in their home in Los Angeles. We'll be talking a
little bit about that. The death of two American servicemen
and an American citizen who was an interpreter in Syria
by apparently someone who was working for the Syrian Defense

(00:46):
Forces but apparently was not on our side. And President
Trump has vowed that everyone responsible for the death of
both of those American servicemen and the interpreter that they
will be held accountable to this whatever that means. We

(01:07):
still have a situation in Venezuela. Then, of course, we
had the shooting at Bandai Beach in Australia. Two people
Palestinian but Australian citizens, a man and his son who
attacked and killed fifteen people during a Honikah celebration at
a place called Bandai Beach. We will discuss that in

(01:30):
the aftermath of that, and the anti Semitic hate that
has risen not only in Australia but around the world
and in our country. Our FBI is assisting Australian authorities
in their investigation. And then, of course the shooting at
Brown University on Saturday. Two students killed there, the gunman

(01:55):
as of earlier today not captured. Well, the news is bleak.
The good news is that the arrival of a savior
and the celebration thereof arrives in just ten days. And
as a Christian, I can't wait to celebrate the birth

(02:19):
of Baby Jesus God with us. Oh Come Emmanuel. Up next,
we'll talk to Dan was about the shooting specifically in
Australia and even this is even though this is a
country that for a long time has told their citizens

(02:41):
they cannot be armed, How did this happen? We'll address
it next with my favorite second amm guy. Dan was
the author of the Good Gun, Bad Guy series of books.
It's the Nightcap and we'll continue in just moments on
seven hundred ar ulw.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Our old friend.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Dan was of the Good Gun, Bad Guy series of books, fame,
and a man who was all over everywhere in social
media and you can find a loaded mic on YouTube.
Be careful how you spell Mike, by the way, and
if you want to know anything about your Second Amendment

(03:22):
rights and living in a truly free country where liberty
is king and not the government, this is a guy
you want to talk to. And I thought, in the
wake of the awful tragedy this weekend. Hanikah began in
Australia with the deaths of fifteen innocence strictly for being Jewish,

(03:45):
and it was committed by a father and son who
had licensed firearms in Australia. It is quite the process
to be a licensed gun owner in Australia to run
down some of those really conian laws that are about
people control more than gun control. And there have been

(04:06):
an effect in Australia going all the way back to
nineteen ninety six. And they were so proud to tout
how violence and murders were down because they'd gotten rid
of the guns out of the hands of most citizens
without major restrictions. Dan was once again is the man
with the plan. Dan Good Evening, and this is an

(04:29):
unspeakable tragedy number one caused by almost everyone's account by
anti Semitism that has been allowed to run rampant in
the land down Under. But good evening anyway, and let's
talk a little bit about what happened at Bondai Beach
and how the Australian government is likely to react to it.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Hey, Gary, Jeff, Yeah, thanks for having me on the show.
As always, You're right, man, this is a real This
is a common of not only anti Semitism, but dangerous
gun laws the Australian government. You mentioned the nineteen ninety
six you know gun law. That's a law called the

(05:13):
National Firearms Agreement in Australia, and it is so restrictive
it puts the Australian people in such danger and makes
them so vulnerable that you know, I believe that Australian
governments should be held accountable in some way, just like
I also believe that our American government should be held

(05:36):
accountable when people get injured or killed in a gun
free zone, for instance, where they can't defend themselves. But
I can go through some of the details of the
National Firearms Agreement in Australia if you'd like.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Sure, Well, one of the things that's most striking about
it to me, Dan, is that you have to provide
a genuine reason that they accept to even be considered
for a license to registrated gun. Self defense is not
a genuine reason in the eyes of Australian officials.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
Right well, that that was one of the things I
was gonna mention. Yes, you're absolutely right that that right
there when they say you you you specifically can't have
a firearm for self defense, and then one of these
tragedies happens. Whose fault is that?

Speaker 4 (06:29):
Is this not.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
Obvious to everybody that the Australian government disarmed their people
and put them in this situation and specifically said if
you want players for defense, you can't. I don't know
what else you have to do to make it blatantly
obvious that you want people to get hurt.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, I would agree with you wholeheartedly.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
And of course their knee jerk reaction to this as
to impose even stricter gun.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Laws, which just as well.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
I mean, it's it's it's exacerbating the insanity that's already
at play in this country. And this is a country,
by the way, if you'll remember, during COVID Man they
people had no freedom at all. You thought the lockdowns
in the United States were bad, if you went more
than five hundred feet outside your home, you could be

(07:25):
arrested and fined, thrown in jail. In Australia, I mean,
they really are an authoritarian kind of place to be
called a democracy or anything resembling a free country at
this point.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
It's so you know, it's so infuriating when you when
you when you say that, I can't And maybe it's
just because freedom is in our DNA here in America.
As much as the political left tries to destroy our freedom, Uh,
it's still in our DNA. I mean, it's part of
who we are as Americans. The Australians, well, they don't

(08:02):
have a constitution like we do, so that you know,
they've been able to condition the people, I think a
little bit easier than you'd be able to condition Americans.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
You said, you said something very very important to this conversation, Dan,
you said, freedom is in our DNA in this country.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
And if you think about.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
It, historically Australia was a prison colony and in some
ways it still is.

Speaker 5 (08:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, it's it's amazing because it's hard for us to
look at the look at these situations and go, what
the hell is wrong with you people? I mean, I'm
looking at them and going, what is wrong with you people?
Are you really?

Speaker 5 (08:43):
Just are you?

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Are you stupid? Because you're watching people get killed knowing
that they're getting killed because they've been disarmed, and then
you want to disarm them even more.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
I don't know, Gary, Jeff.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
It's just sometimes it's astonishing to me. Maybe my brain
just can't comprehend what they're thinking. And I try, believe me,
I try to put myself in their mindset, but it
just doesn't make sense unless unless the goal is to
make people vulnerable and dependent upon their government.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
It sure smells like that, Dan in Australia and other places,
in certain places in this country right now, depending on
what the specific laws are. I mean, you're in New
York State, You've got a governor that is anti gun,
to say the least. Every time the Supreme Court comes

(09:42):
down with a decision and Second Amendment, people feel like
they've won a victory for their God given rights enshrined
in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Kathy Hochel
comes up with some other way to restrict guns again
and you and I have talked about that many times,
the gun free zones you mentioned at the top of this.

(10:02):
Can you imagine if some of the celebrants on Bondai Beach,
some of the Jewish people who were celebrating the first
day of Honikh on Bondai Beach at summertime in Australia,
had had access to a firearm specifically for self defense,
which isn't a reason you can have a gun in Australia,

(10:23):
that this might have been quelled and a lot less
people may have died in this.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
You know, we got to give.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
A high five and prayers for quick recovery to the
you know, the guy, the good Samaritan that attacked one
of the shooters from behind, took his gun from him
and held him at bay and neutralized him. But if
that same person had had or had been permitted to
have a weapon under Australian laws, it might have been

(10:54):
over a lot quicker.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
Oh yeah, you know, absolutely know, Like like here in America,
you don't know who's got a who's got a handgun
in their shoe on the beach, you know, or over
their towel, things like that. I personally know people who
who wouldn't go to the beach without a without a gun.
So uh, anywhere for that matter, without a gun, you know,

(11:19):
and and so. But in Australia you can, you can
plan on everybody being unarmed and helpless, not only Australia,
other countries too, of course, but in this particular case.
So it's just absolutely shameful. I hate the fact that
we have leaders in America and obviously leaders in Australia

(11:41):
who want people defenseless, uh, unarmed, helpless, defenseless. It's an
absolute shame and a travesty that we that especially Australia
right now, doesn't rise up and and and revolt against this.
But it's really I guess we'll wait to see what happens.

(12:05):
Are they going to revolt or are they gonna implement
more gun lots?

Speaker 5 (12:08):
You know?

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Well, this is the other question, Dan, how did with
all of these very strict licensing and gun restrictions in Australia.
Apparently the two gentlemen I called him gentlemen, the two
murderers were carrying around licensed weapons. There's a minimum twenty
eight day waiting period in Australia for a new gun

(12:32):
license application be processed. And I remember watching a sixty
minutes episode of this reporter just so proud of the
man he was interviewing because he properly locked up all
of his firearms on his location. He was on some farm,
and so if anybody had attacked him at his home,

(12:57):
he would have been totally defenseless, even though he had
almost an arsenal out in his barn that was completely
locked with the ammunition out of the guns. That's not
exactly a recipe for being able to protect yourself against
an armed robber or anyone else who would try and

(13:18):
attack you and take your property.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
But yeah, responsible as a man, it's not responsible, uh,
to put yourself in that position and not be able to.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Protect your face, Yeah, and your family exactly. So when
people ask for longer waiting periods before you can get
a gun in this country, that that's not helpful.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
That's not that's not good.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
For the the uh, the betterment of society is it?

Speaker 3 (13:50):
Know, all you're doing is you're you're putting people in
further danger. The right stories of people who had to wait.

Speaker 5 (13:58):
There was a.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
Carol, her name was in New Jersey. She had to
wait extended period of time. They extended it over the
thirty or ninety days, whatever it was. I think it
was thirty day weight, it was forty five days. So
she was trying to get her handgun. She still hadn't
got her handgun at forty five days later, and that's

(14:20):
when the guy she was trying to protect herself from
killed her.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Huh.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
So the New Jersey government made her vulnerable, made her defenseless,
knowing there were police reports and everything. They knew that
she was in danger from this guy, and yet they
made her wait forty five days just so he could
kill her. It's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Well, you mentioned earlier that the Australian government is in
a way responsible for this tragedy that happened on the
beach during Hanukkah because of these just unbelievable draconian authoritarian
gun laws. But they're also in a country that so
famously cracked down over COVID and kept the lid on

(15:05):
the entire society for a false narrative. This is also
a government that has proven itself to be not answering
to the calls to stamp out the anti Semitism that
has been running rampant in this country. This is a
country that could very easily obviously restrict everyone's rights and

(15:27):
make anti Semitism a crime. But they've done nothing on
that account, after attack after attack after attack.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
I mean because it's because it's not necessarily anti Semitism
as much as it is radical Islam, yep. And they
don't want to look at that.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
No, No, they don't want to admit it for political reasons.
And it's because a lot of people that support their government,
just like it is here in this country. You know,
you look at the shooting at Brown University and they
wondered if it's it's tied to some kind of interconnected

(16:06):
international anti Semitic uprising. But that's that's to be told later.
But in this country, people like Chuck Schumer, who is
the highest ranked Jewish official in this country, won't come
out against those in his own party that are saying

(16:27):
anti Semitic things and from the River to the Sea
and free Palestine and asking for a two states solution.
Australia has endorsed a two state solution and it hasn't
quelled those who were upset on the side of Islam.
It's only it's only maybe made them feel entitled to

(16:50):
go ahead and wreak havoc and maybe that's what this was.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
Isn't it amazing how leftling ideology has managed to become
stronger in the minds of left wingers than their own religion.
That's they've really done a number on these people, and
they've really conditioned them and really brainwashed them to denounce

(17:17):
their religion and in favor of the left wing ideology.
It's just it's an amazing feat that they've accomplished. And
I watch it and I go, what's wrong with you people?
How can you denounce your own religion for your political party?
But they've managed to.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Do it, no doubt. It was a sad weekend. Like
I started the show tonight, Dan, and I said, you know,
I ten days till Christmas. I can't wait for it
to get here because I want to celebrate something holy
and good in my life and tune out what obviously
is a fallen world. But you have to be able

(17:59):
to protect yourself. That's our main point in our conversation. Uh,
you know, guns are not the enemy. Guns are there
to protect you from the enemy. And I think we
can kind of leave it there any any last comments.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Dan, Guns are good and that's the one that I
can think up too. It's like, if we don't have them,
we're vulnerable, and I think we need to really be
focused on the people who want to disarm us. That's
that's the real problem.

Speaker 5 (18:32):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Absolutely, Dan was Goodgunbadguy dot com if you'd like to
find out more, and you can access all of Dan's
other social media flings here and there, including the loaded
mic video through that website.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Initially, Dan was, thank.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
You so much, Thanks so much, Pal, I really appreciate it.
Have a great Christmas, Merry Christmas.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Dan, all right, Doctor Carol Lieberman coming up after the
news here on the Nightcap on seven hundred WLW, a
woman who was known as America's Psychiatrist, the Terrorist Therapist,
host of Doctor Carroll's Couch on Voice America dot com,
the Terrorist Therapist podcast, and you've probably seen her on

(19:15):
multiple news outlets giving your opinion on well, what's going
on in the psyche of the world. And I don't
know if we've answered those questions yet, but to get
a glimpse inside what will be next after the Bondai
Beach attack to start honeke in Australia, fifteen dead and

(19:42):
two terrorists, one dead, the other surviving. But what happens now,
because it seems like this anti Semitic rise in terrorist
violence has emboldened other people in pockets of the world
where you know, it's kind of I don't know, ignored

(20:05):
many cases for political and other reasons. If this has
emboldened them to ramp up their attacks, or will this
be a turning point where the world says this has
to be stopped with some of the answers to that,
or at least a glimpse into how this could resolve.
Doctor Carol Lieberman joins us for a few minutes, Doctor leebaman, welcome.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
To the show. How are you?

Speaker 6 (20:31):
Thank you fine, thank you.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
I wonder.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
How somebody like Chuck Schumer, who is the highest ranking
elected official who happens to be Jewish in this country,
can continue to ignore or not discuss or hold accountable
people in his own party who are I mean, blatantly

(20:59):
anti Semitic and shouting things like from the River to
the Sea and free Palestine and calling for this two
state solution, which by the way, the Australian's Prime Minister
was one their government was one of many across Europe
calling for this two state solution in Israel, and that

(21:22):
is not helpful when it comes to curtailing Islamist terrorism,
don't you think not a good thing?

Speaker 6 (21:30):
Yes, absolutely. The government in Australia has not been very
careful or really you know, has turned a deaf ear
to you know, the rising anti Semitism there that people
have been trying to alert them to. But you know,
that's what's happening all over really and.

Speaker 7 (21:52):
You know in.

Speaker 6 (21:52):
Europe, in America except for Trump, who is paying attention,
but he's being battled every which way, you know, a lawyers,
i mean judges, you know, saying that he can't do
some of the things that he wants to do in
terms of getting some of these people out of America
and a two state solutions, there is no way that
that would ever work because really, you know, terrorists want

(22:15):
to destroy Israel and so having two states, I mean
so they can't be such a thing. Because the Palestinians,
first of all, they never think that what, however much
lands that Israel gives them is enough. Israel has already
tried that for many many years uh for peace, to

(22:36):
give parts of Israel away, and it has never worked.
So it's not going to work now. But as far
as bon Day that, I mean, you know that that
was really shocking because we really haven't had such a
major attack in Australia. But it just shows you how

(22:58):
how prevalent this is, how prevalent terrorism is, and how
complacent Americans are.

Speaker 5 (23:04):
You know.

Speaker 6 (23:04):
I think I always each time that there is a
horrible terror attack, I think I wish that this would finally.
Is this one going to be the one that's going
to turn the tide? Are people going to realize the
method is enough? And so far there hasn't been one now,
I mean because as part of it is the mainstream
media isn't reporting all of the attacks. That there are

(23:27):
attacks happening in Europe every day, France, the UK, Germany,
Belgium every day and there was just one in Belgium
at the Christmas market. That's when it often comes out
in Europe besides just regular days, because and this is
something you know a lot of times and it will
probably happen with Australia to people just say, oh well,

(23:52):
it'll never happen here again, or it'll never happen We
don't have to worry about it. When there are eighty
thousand Afghans, unvetted Afghans all over America, as well as
other radical Islamists, some of whom are on the terrorist
watch list. So you know, so they say some people
will say, oh, well, they just really want to attack
the Jews. We're safe if we're not Jewish, which is

(24:12):
so not true. Terrorists want to kill everybody who is
not an Islamist and who does not want to give
in to Sharia laws, convert and give in to Sharia law.
So nobody is safe in the West, and we have
to start and to look what happens. Then New York,

(24:33):
the main sight of nine to eleven, elects a radical
Islamist mayor. So you know, I mean, people, it's if
there are histories, if life goes on and there are
history books, true history books, students in the future will
just be incredulous that Americans did not do something before

(24:56):
all of this, And in fact there's something they just stopped.
The FBI foiled a plot in Los Angeles. There was
going to be a terrorist for New Year's East. I mean,
this is happening all around. It's going to continue to happen.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
Well, a lot of a lot unless we do something.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
A lot of it is happening in this country because
and in other countries, to be honest, because of unvetted
immigration and the open border policy of Joe Biden and
the refuge program for Somalia started way back when. That
has turned parts of Minnesota into Little Somalia and parts

(25:40):
of Dearborn, Michigan into an Islami state almost. I mean,
you look at the people that are being elected. Elan
Omar was one of those Somali refugees and she got
elected to the House of Representatives there and she's calling
for uh into fada essentially. I mean, this is this

(26:06):
is happening because we have allowed our culture in America
to be poisoned by this Islamist tate. And you know,
and we don't have any hatred toward anyone as a society.

Speaker 6 (26:23):
I mean, well we have been to too. You know,
there's a point. I mean, it's of course you want
to be kind to people, all kinds of people, but
there's there's being naives and there's being ignorant. I mean,
that is the problem.

Speaker 7 (26:40):
You know.

Speaker 6 (26:40):
It's like gays for Gaza. When Yahu was here and
spoke to Congress, he talked about gays for Gaza, because
you know, if they were in Gaza, they'd be thrown
off a roofs. And yet these people, all these people
in Gaze for Gaza. It's not just the gays, you know,
it's all the people who are in those protests and
so on. They don't realize that these same people who

(27:02):
they're trying to support are terrorists who want.

Speaker 4 (27:05):
To kill them.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
It's like signing your own death warrant, basically, right, Oh
so what is What do you think is the answer then,
other than being aware that this is a real problem
and that action must be taken, what kind of action
would doctor Carol Lieberman suggest?

Speaker 6 (27:28):
Well, a number of things. First of all, we need
to start seeing much more careful about who we elect,
even to dogcatcher, you know, and of course to mayor
and of course the governor and all of that, to
make sure how knowledgeable they are about terrorism and terrorists.

(27:51):
H Then also I think we need to each community
needs to have a committee that talks about these things
and what they're going to do to prevent anti Semitism,
to be able to fight terrorists, you.

Speaker 5 (28:07):
Know, to.

Speaker 6 (28:09):
To not just wait for people on the top to
figure out a solution, but to start doing things themselves
and to start educating themselves. And that's of course the
other place that is, you know, a big, big problem.
Kids don't learn the true history. They don't learn the
true history of America, and they don't certainly learn the

(28:29):
true history of terrorism, because that would be considered as
long as they'd be Islama, folks. I mean in some
most schools, many schools, they don't even teach about what
nine to eleven is. All the educational departments have to
be revamped and to tell the truth. And you know,
when I was first after nine to eleven, when I

(28:51):
first became the terrorist therapist, you know, helping people cope
with terrorism and all that, and then just come back
from Israel, by the way, I was there volunteering helping
people cope with the trauma from October seventh. So when
I was first decided I'm going to do this, I
had to educate myself about terrorism. I really didn't know
very much, and so I went to conferences and read

(29:12):
books and all kinds of things. And at these conferences,
people who were experts on terrorism talked about how terrorism
terrorists were going to be taking over America, but not
necessarily just by nine to eleven attacks or similar kinds
of attacks, but by infiltrating themselves in the education system,

(29:33):
in politics, and in the media. And that is exactly
what happened. And they knew this, you know, twenty four
years ago. So and yet not enough has been done
to stop it.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Well, you talked about revamping our educational systems, so the
next generation is taught about terrorism, about freedom and history
in general.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
You know.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
It's another situation where we've taken the Bible and God
out of our public life, in public schools, you know,
and they could read their Bible and learn about the
history of Israel, you know what, they could understand that
this isn't like a problem from the last fifty sixty years,

(30:24):
that this.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Has been going on for this has been going on.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
For thousands of years. That Israel is the promised land
given to the Jews by God as their home. I mean,
if you look at the real history of that region,
it belongs to the Jews. I guess that makes you
It makes me a Zionist. But okay, oh well I'm

(30:48):
a Zionist then because Israel is for Jews, yes, and
not people that want to kill them.

Speaker 6 (30:57):
Yes. I mean you have to go back. If you
go back and back and back, you know, then you
realize that this there never was a Palestine for one,
so you know, yes, this is and what's ironic about
the Fundai attack is the man who was the hero.
You know, I have the gun from one of the gunmen.

(31:20):
He was from Syria and conica all about how the
Syrians attacked the temple, destroyed the temple, and and how
there was a little bit of oil left and they
tried they lit a candle with it, and so they
thought it would last for just one day, and it

(31:42):
turned out to last for eight days. And so about
the eight nights of Honkah, the miracle, a miracle happened.
Here is what is the saying for the.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Miracle of light. And by the way, happy hanaka doctor Carol.

Speaker 6 (31:56):
I didn't get a chance, thank you, thank you. Yes.
So so look at the irony like a nice thing,
you know, a positive thing. Okay, they destroyed the temple
many years ago, but Assyrians, you know, stop this attack.
That's really irony and it's really lovely.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
It is that the bravery of that man.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
I'm watching that video and just like look like some
kind of an action movie or something. But I mean, yes,
that that guy's a hero for sure, and he paid
for it with an injury. But it looks like he's
going to be getting out of the hospital and fine
shape when it's all said and done. So Australia, of course,
isn't blaming anti semitism. I was just on the phone

(32:38):
with my friend Dan was author of Gun Goodgunbadguy dot com. Uh,
they're planning, they're planning on more restrictive gun laws because
this father and son terrorist team had licensed guns in Australia,
which is almost impossible to get a licensed permit in
Australia to have a gun, and so they're the Australian

(33:01):
government's answer isn't to attack anti semitism. It's for stricter
gun laws. That's how backward these people are.

Speaker 6 (33:10):
Absolutely, of course that's what they do here when yeah,
there's a school shooting. Oh we have to make stricter
gun laws. Yes, not address the problem, you know, because
in some ways the well, for a number of reasons.
One because there are people who want to do that anyway,
which is so dangerous because you could get someone in

(33:30):
it as the president who doesn't have well like we
had Biden and like we had Obama who didn't really
have American's best interests at heart. So we do need
to be able to have guns. But you have to
go deeper than that. You know, you have to look
at well for the kids. You have to look at kids'
mental health and how to help them, and certainly for

(33:52):
anti Semitism, you have to work on changing that. You know,
there are so many, so many inventions, technical inventions in particular,
but all kinds of things that Israelis have done. You know,
people would be shocked, like their telephones would be taken
away in your cell phones and all that and lots
of other technical things that they rely on. You know,

(34:13):
if if there hadn't been.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Israel, doctor Kara Lieherman, America's psychiatrists, the terrorist therapist.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Thank you so much for your.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Time, and we can pray for peace and better days,
but we can't ignore the problem.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
And I think that's absolu.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
All right, Thank you so much, thank you, and I
say Merry Christmas, and I say it's time for a break.
And when we come back, more Nightcap, including Richard Lyons
on the DNA of Democracy.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
You're on seven hundred w LW.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Into our number two of tonight's night tap on seven
hundred W l W. Gary jeff And joining us now,
author and poet, the author of DNA, DNA of Democracy
and Shadows of the Acropolis, and so many things to

(35:09):
talk about regarding what feels different and why we're not
living up to our birthright as a country right now.
Richard Lyons joins us tonight. And the first thing Richard
said when I called him on the phone a few
moments ago was I'm sorry about Joe Burrow. And you know,

(35:31):
before we get to weightier issues, Richard, let's let's go
ahead and tackle this one. Nothing to feel bad about
regarding Joe Burrow except feeling bad for him that he's
saddled with a franchise that obviously doesn't want to win
as badly as he does, and they prove it every

(35:52):
year and sadly the best years of Joe Burrow's life.
He maybe feels this way too, He hasn't said so publicly.
Have been wasted on this moribund franchise that can't seem
to get out of its own way. Any thoughts on that?

Speaker 8 (36:09):
Oh well, He's just he needs two things. He needs
a couple of things. He needs an offensive line, they
can stop the opponent's defense.

Speaker 7 (36:17):
Yeah, and he needs a.

Speaker 8 (36:18):
Defense that can stop the opponent. He needs a great deal.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Well, we had neither of those yesterday in a twenty
four to nothing lost to the Baltimore Ravens, including two
more Joe Burrow interceptions, which is not the usual Joe
Burrow modus operandi. I mean, he's thrown two interceptions each
in the last two games, and people blame Joe Burrow

(36:45):
just cannot see the fours for the trees.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
It's it's it's amazing.

Speaker 5 (36:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (36:50):
I think he's just exhausted because it's such an impossible position.
He said, So you tend to you tend to lose
spirits when when you know you're not going to get
to where you need to go.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
You know, And let's blend. Let's segue that into our conversation,
our greater conversation. Talking to Richard Lyons on the Nightcap,
as author of The DNA of Democracy and Shadows of
the Acropolis, do you think that it's easy for Americans
who care about their country of pride in this country

(37:24):
and pride in what it stands for and was based upon.
Do you think that a lot of us are getting
a little tired and worn out from what's happening from
within our country.

Speaker 8 (37:36):
Well, that's a really good question, but we shouldn't. And
I'll try and describe why I wrote the DNA of
Democracy series because I feel the American people need an
education on the unique brilliance of the history of this country.
It is unexampled in world history that we had a

(37:59):
country fought for the rights of humanity, a country that
fought for the divine rights given to every individual. This
is a system that is opposite to the tyrannical systems
of government that existed throughout human history. And so when
you go to the point in seventeen eighty seven Gary
where they're constructing the Constitution, they took elements of common

(38:24):
law from the Ten Commandments. They took elements of rights
trial by jury from the Greek democracy in Athens. They
took examples of home of property ownership and of commercial
rights from Rome, and again from England and its common
laws and the Magna Carta. And I put all that

(38:46):
together to show how these are each cornerstones of our
unique constitution and were put there very deliberately to protect
us from systems of tyranny. Which are like social socialism
is a tyrannical form of government. And what we're seeing
in America today, and this is where Shadows of the

(39:08):
Acropolis comes in. It's a chronicle of the last one
hundred years, beginning with Woodrow Wilson and the slow incremental
growth of socialism in this country to the point where
today you have Mamdani running as an open socialist in
New York and uh in California you have a governor

(39:29):
who who acts like one.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah, no doubt about it.

Speaker 8 (39:32):
And that's where we are. And so we really were
at we're at a critical point, right it was we were.
We were at a critical point in the Civil War
and it cost a million casualties to correct the flaw,
the flaw of slavery in the original Constitution. We now
stand at a point where the Democrat Party has invited

(39:53):
in and grown socialism for one hundred years. And we
have to face this now and have faith in the
cornerstones of our country. And they are a faith in federalism,
a faith in representative government and not in the administrative state,
a faith in constitutional law, faith in free enterprise, and

(40:16):
acknowledge the gift that Judaeo Christianity is.

Speaker 5 (40:19):
To this system.

Speaker 8 (40:22):
These are faiths which demand humility and understanding and peace
with political opponents, which socialism does not do.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
No, Aman, you've seen the rise of the left, the
socialism socialists that you're talking about, and how they are
have no compunction at all against using violence to achieve
their goals.

Speaker 8 (40:45):
And if they do not do it legally, they do
it extra legally, which is through the administrative state. And
if they can't do it there or bend the elbow
of the judiciary, then yes, they use violence. You're exactly right.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
And we've seen time and time again on the.

Speaker 8 (41:02):
Left where when they burned out two hundred cities, oh
because they were saying angry.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
You know, the city of Cincinnati did a pretty good
job during the riots of twenty twenty, I will give
them credit, but still we had that here. It wasn't
just in Seattle or Portland or Los Angeles or any
of these major leftist cities. It happened everywhere, and it
was condoned by leaders at the time as justice for

(41:32):
George Floyd. You know, the time where the rest of
us were being told that we had to wear masks
if we went outside the house because of the threat
of the COVID boogeyman. If you were if you were
writing and setting things on fire to Black Lives Matter
rally and you weren't mirroring a mask, well that was

(41:53):
justified because you know, COVID's not going to touch people
who were rioting for a just cause, were not peacefully protesting.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
We did see that.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
And no, the other tie to the rise of socialism
is the rise of globalism.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Yes, in our world.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
You know that they're talking about a world in which
we won't no one will own anything, but we'll have
a nice little apartment box and a big screen TV
and we'll.

Speaker 8 (42:24):
Be happy at a bucket of popcorn.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah great, and we'll be happy.

Speaker 8 (42:28):
Yes, No, that's exactly so. And you find the global
The way we were constructed originally was that most politics
were local. It was at the town assembly that you
exerted direct democracy and let people in your town know
how you feel, and if you had a better way

(42:49):
of doing things, your idea carried the vote. What this
creeping socialism has done for one hundred years has taken
governance from local and state government and taking all that
power and all that money and put it in one
city and DC centralized it and redistributed it so that

(43:10):
they determine who gets money back from all the taxes
that we pay, and they do so based on whether
you carry, whether you carry the water for the political
will of the Democrat Party. So this is where we're
at today. What we need to we need to go
back to federalism. We need to decentralize as much as
we can. And there's a there's a great case before

(43:33):
the Supreme Court which will determine whether Donald Trump can
go to an agency which he is theoretically as the
executive running, and replace the heads of those agencies or
evacuate them all together. Right, And I think his best
example is what he's doing with the Education Department, where

(43:55):
he's unraveling the department and taking all that power and
giving it back to the state. And I think that's
what needs to be happening here.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Well, you know, I think that there's hope that they
will make that determination at the highest court in the land.
They already did something really, really good a couple of
years ago with the Chevron decisions.

Speaker 8 (44:17):
So exactly, which took the.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Power out of these administrative states, the administrative state, the
unelected bureaucrats in these administrations, agencies that are appointed, not elected,
and you know, giving the power back to Congress and
the president as far as rules and regulations, and Donald

(44:40):
Trump has been instrumental in deregulating a lot of these
draconian administrative state kind of rules made by people who
don't have any accountability.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
To the city.

Speaker 8 (44:54):
I don't think. I don't know, if you know, most
people in America don't understand that the administrative state is,
by its function, a fourth part of our government. Yeah,
and they exercise legislative characteristics, executive and judicial characteristics, and
investigative powers all in one. And this is exactly why

(45:20):
our government is broken into three branches, because you never
want that. And so you have four hundred and ninety
five agencies peopled by a couple of million people that
are making rules for the country that never pass the legislature,
and if you don't follow their rules, they can find
you or jail you. That is not how we were founded.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
That is truly taxation without representation, which is what we
broke away from.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
The King for.

Speaker 8 (45:47):
Yeah, exactly, exactly so, and so that's what my two
books go into. Why did we leave the King and
why have we gotten back to that? How have we
gotten back to that? And we have a government that's
un answerable to our will. It's supposed to be our government,
but we are being treated now like we're subjects, and
that's the growth of socialism.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
Can we look back, Richard Lyons, to.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
What happened to the democracy in ancient Greece and what
happened to what what was the Roman Empire? And why
they fell? Are we seeing Are we seeing similar signs here?

Speaker 8 (46:25):
Yeah? They Well, in Athens, I would point out that
there was a there was a central treasury of the
League of Greek City States that formed an answer to
the Persian invasions, and its treasury was held in Delos.
So that would be the equivalent in the United States
of oh, the treasury is in Missouri.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (46:44):
Right.

Speaker 8 (46:45):
Then Athens got arrogant and Athens said, no, we're going
to take the treasury from being in Delos. We're going
to put it in Athens. And not just that, but
every one of the league in the Delian League is
a lesser city state than Athens. From now on, Athens
will dictate to the Delian League that was contrary to
the to the federalism that the Greek city states enjoyed.

(47:10):
And again, so it's a concentration of power again. And
with Rome, what happened was through a series of civil wars,
the Senate started losing its power as a ballast of
the state, and individuals started concentrating power in their own clans,
and it ended up with the Julia Claudians winning the

(47:30):
emperorship and that destroyed the Republic. It's always concentration of wealth,
concentration of power, and that started in our country with
Woodrow Wilson.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Well don't you think that that kind of plays into
this party system we have in this country that George
Washington warned about as he was.

Speaker 8 (47:53):
Yes, that was it was one of the premier concerns
of all the founders that by having magnetism in political
parties where you formed different groups that combat at each
other and vie for power, Yeah, that would be a
problem because it naturally goes against individual rights, liberties, and interests.

(48:16):
But that is how we're formed, and we have these
two massive parties. And today I like the idea that
the Republicans, rather than being a junior partner to the
Democrat Party as it was for decades, We're now fighting
for constitutional principles. We're now fighting for the education system

(48:36):
to be given back to the states. We're now fighting
like with Doge, where are these guys spending their money?
How did Stacy Abrams get two billion dollars through the EPA.
We're on the virtuous side of this fight, and I'm
happy that the Republican Party is as strong as it
is now.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Well, hopefully it can maintain that strength through the midterms
coming up. And yeah, absolutely there are signs pointing both
ways as to how that goes right now, but we're
still months off.

Speaker 8 (49:10):
Well, I think we really need a central message.

Speaker 7 (49:12):
Now.

Speaker 8 (49:12):
The beauty of Trump was maga make America great again.
Now there's a hundred policies under that, but everybody recognizes
that line. Everybody has that hat, and that's what everybody
voted for. So I think we need you know, it
needs to We need to know we're fighting for the Constitution,
We're fighting for free enterprise, We're fighting for federalism. I mean,

(49:35):
federalism is a virtue that we've forgotten. But we in
we in in Ohio shouldn't be paying for the sins
of California, or for the sins of New York. If
we run our budgets right, we should be rewarded for that.
It shouldn't be redistributed.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
No, exactly.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Let me ask you, Richard Lyons, Uh, what what other
federal agencies this adminis straight of state would you like
to see disbanded? If you had the power to suggest
to the President and the powers that be, what besides
the Department of Education needs to go? Because I can
think of about four or five myself.

Speaker 8 (50:16):
I would think if we make a virtuous enough tax system,
we could do without the irs.

Speaker 5 (50:22):
Amen, there you go, all.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Right, I think the Department of Energy could go. I
think that, to be honest, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives doesn't need to exist.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Leave that to local law enforcement work.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
With the thing.

Speaker 8 (50:42):
All of these agencies and this is their weakness. Every
agency has offices in every state, So why not let
the states decide whether they want to keep that office
in their state. Yeah, So if you want a Bureau
of Tobacco Firearms in the state of Utah, keep it,
but disband the one in Washington.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
Well, I always thought that alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should
be a store, not a government agency.

Speaker 8 (51:13):
Well, I think Joe Burrow is pulling up to the
alcohol part of it.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Well, I don't know. Do you see that sad press
conference on his birthday?

Speaker 8 (51:22):
My gosh, it just he is such a natural quarterback. Yeah,
I mean everything about him, he's the natural.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
He was the best quarterback in the NFL last year.

Speaker 8 (51:32):
Yeah, by farnuck.

Speaker 7 (51:34):
And he's suck.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yeah, he is stuck and he doesn't like it.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
And I don't blame him.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
I mean, you know, it almost shrieks of Andrew Luck
with the Indianapolis Colts and others you've seen that just
just went to the wrong team. And I hate to
say that about your Bengals, folks, but you know, and
like you know, they didn't not even I'm going to

(52:00):
get into this with the wild Man later on tonight,
Wildman Walker. They didn't even. And the NFL requires teams
to clean snow off of benches and railings before a game. Yeah,
and the Bengals did.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Not do that.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
And they did not allow fans to bring cardboard or
anything to stand on. When they didn't clean off the
stadium like they're supposed to under National Football League rules.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
I'd like to see him.

Speaker 8 (52:29):
Find for not doing well that you know, there's a
real health hazard to that. Oh yeah, clips on the ice,
for God's.

Speaker 5 (52:35):
Sake, exactly.

Speaker 8 (52:37):
You're a lot of liability there.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
And it's not like we live in an overly litigious society.

Speaker 8 (52:45):
The Democrats love that too, by the way.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Oh yes, they do money for free.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Anything else you'd like to add here in our closing minute, No, but.

Speaker 8 (52:54):
I take hope in this. I take hope in this
that Trump was elected in twenty sixteen when we were
about to become institutionally socialist under Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama,
that while he was out of power, right while he
was in power twenty sixteen to twenty twenty, he got
a majority in the Supreme Court. And now you're watching

(53:16):
with Chevron and other issues that they are rolling back
the administrative state.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Good.

Speaker 8 (53:22):
So this is all good. That Trump got elected again
in twenty four knowing what he had to do, knowing
what his cabinets should be composed of, he got a
lot of great people. I think we're better off from
that one election to twenty sixteen that we can really recognize.
I think history will recognize it more than we do now.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
All right, Richard lyonce, thank you so much the DNA
of Democracy, Shadows of the Acropolis. Look for him and
get yourself an education on the way things you're supposed
to be.

Speaker 8 (53:54):
All right, Thanks Garry.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
You take care of him. Merry Christmas Richard an to you.

Speaker 5 (53:59):
All right.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
We will continue in just a few moments. My friend
Dan was was here with us earlier. Another buddy, Drew Allen.
First time in probably two two and a half years
i've had Drew on. He's got a brand new book
about Charlie Kirk and about the movement the turning point
USA has begun, and about what's really important. So stick

(54:27):
around for that after a break on the nightcap on
seven hundred WLW.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
As I mentioned.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Before the break, it's been a long long time since
I had the pleasure of having Drew Thomas Allen on.
We first met, gosh six seven years ago. Probably he
was helping me book guests on this show and always
gave me the best people and he still does to

(54:59):
this Hey, but he's also an author.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
He's also a father.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
By the way, we'll start the conversation this way, Drew Allen,
how is the family.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
How's everybody doing?

Speaker 4 (55:12):
Oh, they're good man.

Speaker 9 (55:13):
My oldest is approaching three rapidly, she'll be three of
the inn of March. So I keep saying two and
a half. I've been saying two and a half for
like three months. But anyway, and then and my other
daughters rapidly approaching one. She'll be one in January. So
so yeah, busy, it's a blessing.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
I haven't I haven't talked to you since the birth
of your second child. That's how long it's been. But
God bless you. I'm I'm glad that it is a blessing,
and I hope it's some merrier Christmas with all of
that baby joy around the Allen house.

Speaker 9 (55:46):
Yeah, you get to readlive your childhood a little bit,
so it's an amazing thing.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
The latest book that Drew has written is called for
Christ and Country, The Martyrdom of Charlie Kirk. A lot
of Charlie Cookbrooks kirkbooks out there right now. Erica has
been front and center his widow and there's a new controversy.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Maybe we can get into that.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
But first and foremost, why did you feel compelled to
write a book about Charlie Kirk?

Speaker 2 (56:16):
Drew?

Speaker 9 (56:18):
Well, I didn't intend to write a book straight away,
I'll just tell the quick story, and I have a
very strong point that I think your audience will relate to.

Speaker 4 (56:26):
So you mentioned I'm a father, I am. I'm thirty eight.

Speaker 9 (56:29):
I don't usually pick up my daughter from school from preschool,
but my wife told me that morning that the previous
day she'd gone to pick up our daughter from school,
and my daughter come to the car and been really
disappointed because I wasn't there. She was like dad, adding car,
his dad had there, and she kept saying. My wife said, no,
he'sn't home. And I said, you know what, I'm gonna
come with you and we're gonna pick her up. I

(56:52):
want to see that joy on her face when she
sees her dad there. And so as we pulled into
the parking lot of the school, I got the notification
that Charlie had been shot.

Speaker 4 (57:00):
And you know, i'd been.

Speaker 9 (57:02):
There before in the sense that we all were there
when when Trump got shot at the Butler Pennsylvania rally,
but it was really quickly revealed that he was okay,
and this was different. So I was scrolling on my
phone refreshing news feeds while my wife went to get
her daughter, and then I saw the video and anybody
who saw that video knew, like it's not humanly possible,
you know.

Speaker 4 (57:22):
To survive it. Just it was just so gruesome, and.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
I mean it all looked it almost looked computer generated
when I saw it the first time, and it just
didn't look real and it didn't feel real. But unfortunately
it was go ahead.

Speaker 9 (57:38):
Well yeah, and it still kind of feels that way,
like I can't believe he's gone. But in the moment
that I realized he was dead, I mean, my gut
told me that my daughter was running to the car
and she was so happy and like yelling at the
top of the lungs.

Speaker 4 (57:53):
Dad, Dad as in the car, Dad as in car.

Speaker 9 (57:56):
And as I embraced my daughter, you know, I realized,
like Charlie's little girl's never gonna have that experience again.

Speaker 4 (58:04):
And it just it like it crushed me, man.

Speaker 9 (58:07):
And you know, I was Charlie's publicist last summer for
Right Wing Revolution, but I didn't know him personally.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
And that's the that's the core of the book. I
make that clear.

Speaker 9 (58:13):
And I'm writing like millions of Americans who just felt
devastated and we're trying to understand why. I mean, we've
all the older you get, the more people die, right,
And so I've lost people, but nobody affected me like Charlie.

Speaker 4 (58:24):
And part of it was it was so close to home.

Speaker 9 (58:26):
He had two kids who were roughly my kid's age,
had in his case a daughter and a son.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
And I cried for a week, Gary like I.

Speaker 9 (58:35):
The next morning, I slept it by my wi my
daughter's oldest daughter's crib that night, just because I wanted
to be close to her.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
The next morning, at breakfast, I just broke down.

Speaker 9 (58:44):
She touched me with her little oatmeal covered hands at
the breakfast table, and I just like, I just wept.
And my daughter, you know, his dad has a dada,
has an auchi and my wife said, yeah, he has
an aushae on his heart, you know.

Speaker 4 (58:54):
And I just I was.

Speaker 9 (58:56):
Grappling with this, and and I knew Charlie was, you know,
in important. But I don't think anyone, I don't I
don't think anyone understood how important he was because he
planted a lot of seeds and apparently he planted seeds
for me too. And then as I was watching his
videos and his sermons effectively, because he was kind of
like a preacher, really set down to because he put
he put his faith first. I just it just it

(59:18):
just moved me, and it it just challenged me to
confront like the gap in myself between the man I
wanted to be and kind of the man Charlie became.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
Charlie wasn't always that Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 9 (59:28):
He had a hunger for truth, a hunger for knowledge
and and faith and deepening that stuff. And so I
still had this residual fear because I'd lost so many
friends Democrat friends in twenty twenty. And even though I
told myself I was courageous. I mean, I'm not tepid.
I write books, I do a podcast, I come on shows.
But he went into hostile environments and I would never
have done that in the past because I just like

(59:51):
the sting of, like of of the secular world, you know,
And and so it killed that fear in me too.
And so I went on this journey because I wanted
people to understand why this happened.

Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
Who did it?

Speaker 9 (01:00:02):
It was the left transgender movement, and to talk to
Americans about what we have to do to prevent this.
And it's just that's what it was kind of born of.
And then there are all these issues we need to
talk about as a country, because I don't want to
live in a country where this happens. Not only where
this happens, but you know, I've got a chapter called
nine ten is the new nine to eleven. That's not
to downplay nine to eleven, But I remember when the

(01:00:24):
towers fell when I was a freshman, Gary Jeff. And
even more shocking than the event itself was the reaction
by Muslims in the Middle East that were celebrating our pain.
And that was happening in the United States of America
by leftists.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Celebrating Charlie's death. Yeah, it disgusted me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
And the thing is, we on the right, for the
most part, don't have hatred against our political enemies or
against the people that disagree with us.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
We don't generally do that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
The left, it seems, has a pensiant for thinking violence
is okay. And you look and poll after poll around
this country. If you're looking at Democrats or people who
identify as Democrats, people on the left are condoning. I mean,
they're in favor. They think it's okay sometimes to commit

(01:01:24):
violence against someone that you disagree with. And that's really
a bad trend. In this country that has just risen
up over the last five to ten years.

Speaker 5 (01:01:33):
Drew.

Speaker 9 (01:01:35):
Yeah, I mean it started with Trump's election twenty sixteen,
and I get into an address on that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
This book's very personal too, but.

Speaker 9 (01:01:45):
It started in twenty sixteen, and then by twenty twenty
is when it really mistastatized, metastized, right, because you know,
I didn't lose my friends in twenty sixteen the first
time I voted for Trump. I did in twenty twenty
because that constant drumbeat of hatred and the human is
is what it was led people to excommunicate me from
their lives just because of politics. And so there's moral

(01:02:06):
relatives on the left. Charlie talked about it. We believe
in transcendent.

Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
Power in God. They are moral absolutes, and the left
doesn't believe that.

Speaker 9 (01:02:13):
So you know, Trump, I mean, well Trump too, But
Charlie to the left was just a clump of sales. Right,
It's just like an unborn baby wild. If you don't
want the baby, it's a clump of sales. But if
you want it, it's a baby. You know, you get
the sonogram and it's like, that's a beautiful baby. If
you want it and if you don't, it's just a
thing to be discarded and killed. And so that's what
they viewed Charlie kirkas. He wasn't somebody. He wasn't a father,

(01:02:36):
a husband, a human being. He was just you know,
it was crazy what they did because they said his
words were violence, and then they said actual violence that
took his life.

Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
You know that was righteous.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Yeah, it's insane. It is insane, and you're right. It
is very much like people Islamist in the Middle East
dancing with joy when the towers came down in this country.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Back in two thousand and one, we're.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Talking to Drew Allen about his new book For Country
or for Christ and Country rather get it right, Christ First, Always,
For Christ and Country. The Martyrdom of Charlie Kirk. There
was a meeting earlier today. I've not heard how it
turned out between Erica Kirk and Candace Owens. Candace Owens

(01:03:23):
has raised Erica Kirk's ire and caused some controversy for
sailing saying that Tyler Robinson did not kill Charlie Kirk
that and pointing to the fact that she thinks it
was an inside job by people at turning point USA
that allowed this to happen or were complicit in Charlie's death,

(01:03:49):
and she says she has sources, she has leaks. I
saw the interview, the YouTube thing on Seeing Andrew, and
you know, I've enjoyed Candace Owens in the past, but
I saw this and she wasn't very convincing to me
that she had real proof of this when the interviewer
kept pressing her. I mean, any comments on that.

Speaker 9 (01:04:13):
Yeah, she's she's lost the plot.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
She's not one of us.

Speaker 9 (01:04:18):
She's an instrument of an evil at this point in destruction.
And let me just say broadly before our narrow in
on her, we had an opportunity here to really address
and defeat the left because a radical wise leftist killed
Charlie Kirk. Now you can ask questions about this and that,
but the evidence is pretty clear that it was Tyler

(01:04:42):
Robinson certainly. And the enemy that we face that we
rallied to confront in the previous presidential election is we
understand that the greatest threats of this country is the
left and their violence and their ideology. And we spent
the last three months because of people like Charlie, because
of people like can So's not focusing on the issue

(01:05:02):
we need to confront, talking about conspiracy theories and pulling
the finger, even insinuating that Errika Kirk was involved in
the assassination of her own husband. And Candice Own is
somebody who turned Charlie Kirk's assassination into a stage for
her to perform, and it's outrageous, and look the the
the he her own comments prove that she's full of

(01:05:25):
crap because she keeps changing the story. You know, she
she points out some Egyptian planes presence coincidence, and that
of course doesn't actually link to anything at all. And
then it was you know, a trapdoor that the Jews
did it. No, it was mac Ron and the French
Foreign Legion that kills in. I mean, you're proving that
you're full of crap by not following through with your

(01:05:48):
your previous accusation with the receipts, and she keeps saying,
I've got receipts, I've got this, and it never ends
up going anywhere.

Speaker 4 (01:05:55):
And you know, her followers at this point are very
much like leftists.

Speaker 9 (01:05:58):
And let me be clear too, Cannis Owens and these
people are not looking for the truth.

Speaker 4 (01:06:02):
They're looking for conspiracy theories. There's a very big difference.

Speaker 9 (01:06:05):
And you know, they operate from the position that it
couldn't have been the guy who actually killed Charlie Kirk,
and so therefore any evidence that would prove far more
than anything they're throwing out there that he is the killer,
they dismissed because they don't believe he did it. It's
kind of like brock Hussein Obama, our first Muslim president,

(01:06:26):
you know, the Billy Graham of Islam, who every time
you had a Jahadis attack, he would come out and
defend Islam because he operated from this position that Islam
was religion of peace and therefore Islam could have nothing
to do with these murders. Well, these people were operating
from a similar assumption. Well, it couldn't have been the killer.
So therefore anything that would point to the killer, we're
going to separate and say this isn't it. No, it's

(01:06:47):
Egyptian planes and trap doors and Jews and the French
Foreign Legion and it's a brigettunch he killed them, or.

Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
They're penis or whatever.

Speaker 7 (01:06:55):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:06:55):
I mean, I just I can't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Candice Owens used to see to me to be a
pretty reasonable person. And I found her, like I said,
entertaining an instructive in years past. I don't know what's
happened to her other than this need to have people
pay attention to her. Is she doing it for clicks
for likes? Is is that what it is?

Speaker 5 (01:07:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (01:07:20):
I mean, look, she's obviously a narcissist. She turned Carl's
assassination into a story about herself. And you know, I
tiptok to people at turning Point and people around there,
I mean Eric, I mean, you know cannas Ollens puts out,
you know, text messages between her and Charlie from like
twenty eighteen, you know, as if that's reflective of was

(01:07:42):
reflective of her current relationship with the organization and Charlie.
Charlie was a decent person that wasn't going to go
and throw her under the bus in public. He took
the higher ground, like Erica Kirk has until you know,
Canus forced her to have to come out and say something.
And you know, Canna keep playing the VICTI I she
operates like she's a Marxist. That's that's that's the the

(01:08:05):
strategy she uses. And she's always the victim of everything
and not the bully. And I just you know, she
she was exommunicating that group a long time ago. People
were we were done with her years ago. I mean,
she wasn't associated with TPUSA. She's over a daily wire
and doing her thing, and so I mean she acts
more like a spurned lover, like a jealous ex girlfriend.

(01:08:27):
That's like trying to you know, come out and settle
personal scores.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
You know, that's that's really really sad for Christ and Country.
The Martyrdom of Charlie Kirk is Drew Allen's new book.
I understand you've had some trouble getting it out there.
For some reason, people bought the Brooke book and then
Amazon suspended it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
What is Amazon doing?

Speaker 9 (01:08:52):
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean I I can't speak with
complete certainty except that I think there was a war
that oh there were gonna be a bunch of Charlie
kirkbooks come out that are AI generated and so on
and so forth. And I mean I have a publisher,
Eric Mataxas wrote the endorsement on the front of the cover.
So I'm not smoking schmuck face, you know, I have

(01:09:13):
a publisher, Post Tail Press, that actually did a couple
of Charlie's books as well, and when they tried to
upload the book to Amazon it got blocked.

Speaker 4 (01:09:22):
Then they got it through and people were buying it.

Speaker 9 (01:09:25):
It was really rising through the rankings, and then sometime,
I guess on Saturday night or by Sunday morning, people
are texting me saying, hey, we can't buy your book.
Every time we go to buy it now it says,
you know, we can't deliver to the address. So whatever's happened,
my book has been throttled and sabotaged, and you know,

(01:09:46):
the publisher's working to get it fixed. But it's really
frustrating because you know, this is a book that I
feel like it's very important because it refocuses and grounds
our movement and Charlie's legacy frankly and moving forward again,
and you know it's being.

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
I've never had this happen before, Darren Jeff.

Speaker 9 (01:10:06):
I mean, it's just it's it's I mean, I get
some of the concerns out there about people who are
writing these AI books or whatever else.

Speaker 4 (01:10:12):
This is not that.

Speaker 9 (01:10:14):
And yet somehow, you know, my book can't be be purchased.

Speaker 4 (01:10:17):
I mean, they'll they'll get it fixed at some point,
but you know, I don't. I don't.

Speaker 9 (01:10:21):
I don't really know what to do because I don't
want to point fingers in the wrong place. I don't
want to pull candas owns. Yeah, I am frustrated, but
you know it's just it's tough man.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
Well it's important.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
And you addressed this earlier that the title is for
Christ and country, Christ first and people. I mean, I
don't think people until they started examining in the aftermath
of Charlie's death, that that's what Charlie was about. Christ first,

(01:10:57):
Country second, you know, and family probably wedged in between
those two because they were so important and dear to him,
and uh he was. You made you made the point
that his speeches and his rallies for turning Point USA
were more like sermons, and you know, then he would

(01:11:18):
open the floor up for people to engage in, you know,
a debate, a discussion about the things that he'd addressed
in these sermons that he was giving around the country
on college campuses.

Speaker 9 (01:11:31):
You speak to that, Yeah, yeah, I mean that's what
made Charlie unique and different is that most people want
you know, uh, friendly, you know, curated audiences.

Speaker 4 (01:11:41):
You know, they need a candy crally.

Speaker 9 (01:11:42):
Debate moderator to bail them out, like she bailed Obama
out during that debate with mint Romney. And he he
had so much conviction that was willing to go into
hostile environments and talk because he he had a mastery
of the truth and that's all he needed.

Speaker 4 (01:12:00):
He didn't need an army at his back.

Speaker 9 (01:12:03):
And you know, and that came from his faith, his
Christian faith, and you know, his life and death totally
transformed me. I mean, when people died in the past
for a couple of days, maybe you know, I I
thank God for the.

Speaker 4 (01:12:16):
Breath of my lungs. I'm a little bit more.

Speaker 9 (01:12:20):
Aware of the the you know, shortness, brevity of our
time on this earth. But then I get back into
the same old routine where it doesn't change. This changed
me permanently, And I mean, I can't tell you how
much I've been reading scripture and trying to deepen my
faith and train like an athlete trains in the gym
in terms of from an academic perspective of preparing for

(01:12:44):
debates and mastering my own belief, so that I had
that conviction that he had. I'm just I'm not afraid anymore,
you know, which is such a weird thing to say
because it was so shocking and it is scary to
see what happened to a truth teller in this world
that embraces life, eyes and hatred.

Speaker 4 (01:13:02):
And yet it's you know, to watch.

Speaker 9 (01:13:03):
Him basically fulfill what Christ promised us. You know, look,
you're you're gonna be persecuted for following me. He took
that all the way to the very end. And that's
why also in the book, I say he was absolutely
a martyr, and I think that millions of other people
have been changed and you're not. There's not gonna be
another Charlie Kirk ever again, just like there was never

(01:13:24):
gonna be another Rush Limbaugh. All it's necessary, though, is
for people like me and millions of others, thousands of
others even to you know, pick up the.

Speaker 4 (01:13:34):
Baton and carry Carrie.

Speaker 9 (01:13:37):
You know, his race is finished, I guess you could
say in ours is just beginning, and you know, we've
got to step into the void, not to not to
you know, I mean, like I said, he's irreplaceable, but
we but we can, we can collectively still fight to
continue that legacy and save the country.

Speaker 4 (01:13:52):
We just have to have that conviction that he had.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
Continue to uh attempt to get Drew's book for Christ
and Country, The Martyrdom of Charlie Kirk. It should be available,
hopefully by this week and this nonsense stops, and Drew,
I have some suggested reading for you with what we
just talked about.

Speaker 5 (01:14:12):
I'm ready.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
That is Ephesians chapter six, verses ten through twenty, about
putting on the armor of God, because our struggle is not,
as it says, against flesh and blood, but against the rulers,
against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world,
and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore,

(01:14:35):
put on the full armor of God, so that when
the day of evil comes, you're able to stand your ground.
And after you've done everything to stand firm, stand firm, then,
with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with
a breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet
fitted with the readiness that comes from the Gospel of peace.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
Amen.

Speaker 4 (01:14:57):
Amen. That's one of my favorite scriptures.

Speaker 9 (01:14:59):
And you know we don't live for man's applause.

Speaker 4 (01:15:02):
The only applause me to live for is our Lord
and saviors.

Speaker 9 (01:15:06):
And if you can have that attitude like Charlie, did
you know you are unstoppable in terms of you know,
your journey on this earth.

Speaker 4 (01:15:16):
I mean, you know they can kill you. But look
look what his murder did.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
I mean, I know it's amazing. Drew. Great luck with
the book and we'll talk soon.

Speaker 4 (01:15:25):
Okay, friend, thanks brother, love you.

Speaker 5 (01:15:28):
You got it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
Merry Christmas?

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
Uh break and then back a lot more nightcap to come,
tagging our scheduled guest Bill Convoys. So in lieu of that,
a very interesting interview I did last year well a
man named Shotgun Tom Kelly on American History on the radio.
Here is part two of that convo with the shotgun.

Speaker 10 (01:15:55):
They lie in boothills all through the West, the outlaws,
the guns, the bit of the kids, and wiss say,
a fellow like the cow that shot Bill Hiccock in
the back. There's always one like that and every time
of history. Sure most of them were vomits, but every
once in a while and one of them I may
have lived a man.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
We talked about Lauren Green and Ringo in our first segment.
We're talking with Shotgun Tom Kelly, who has the same
kind of voice as Lauren Green did. My God, he's
a Monster American History on the radio. Shotgun Tom is
our guest for the rest of this hour, and we're back.

(01:16:40):
I wanted to ask you, Tom about your dad because
in Tom's new book, all I want to do is
play the hits out now on Amazon and anywhere you
buy books about his career. In his life, you talk
a lot about your dad, who was a train engineer
back in the day, and there's stories in the book
like the one you're gonna kind of share with us.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
Now, tell me about your dad.

Speaker 7 (01:17:03):
Yeah, dad was a locomotive train engineer for the Santa
Fe in San Diego. And I remember Dad came home
and he said, this actor they had a film crew
there and they wanted now this is later on in
the in the late fifties, and this actor Dad had

(01:17:24):
to get on his knees and bring the F seven,
which is the war bonnet, the red war bonnet, a
beautiful engine into San Diego. And so the film crew
from the television station was filming that had this guy
get off. He was portrayed as an engineer, so he
got he was an actor. But he got off the

(01:17:44):
F seven Santa Fe engine and walked into the depot
and then they.

Speaker 5 (01:17:47):
Cut and turns out he was my favorite.

Speaker 7 (01:17:51):
Children's show host. His name was Johnny Downs. He used
to be Johnny of Our Gang, and so for years
as a kid, I used to watch him on the
air and I used to say, Hey, my dad is
Johnny Downs's engineer. He portrayed an engineer, see, so just
like engineer Bill in LA. But yeah, my dad told

(01:18:13):
me that story, and he told me another story. He
got the nod to be the engineer on the presidential
train to bring the President of the United States into
San Diego, picked him up in Los Angeles, came to
San Diego, and then my dad hates crowds. He looked

(01:18:34):
out one side of the engine and there were thousands
of people waiting to see hear the president and see him.
He looked out the other side and there was nobody, Gary,
nobody there.

Speaker 5 (01:18:44):
So this was.

Speaker 7 (01:18:45):
My dad's job, was done his This is his opportunity
to get out of there. He grabbed his grip, he
got off the engine and he was making his way
to his car as fast as possible, and this guy
stopped him. He said, I've been with these foes all day.
You're the engineer, aren't you. And my dad said, yes,

(01:19:05):
mister President, I am. It was Harry Truman. Wow in
nineteen forty eight. Yeah, so, annyway, my dad walked about
one hundred yards with Harry and then the Secret Service
got ahold of him. He bitted my dad goodbye, and
then he spoke to the people. But you know, my
dad told that story and it was one of his favorites.
And I said, I'd love to meet a president someday.

(01:19:27):
So my congressman got me the job of doing the
MC job for a president who came to San Diego.
And I did, and so he says, I have an idea.
Why don't you you know your trademark, ranger. You don't
have a smokey the bear hat that I wear because
I did children's television for seventeen years locally here in
San Diego and on my syndicated show Words of Poppin

(01:19:50):
was syndicated around the country and I won two Emmys
for that show.

Speaker 5 (01:19:54):
But anyway, the hat is a.

Speaker 7 (01:19:56):
Traditional thing that I've had in my career, and so
I wanted to meet a president. So anyway, Duncan Hunter,
my congressman made it happen. I went to the White
House and this is all in the book. It's a
deeper story in the book. But anyway, we're waiting outside

(01:20:16):
the Oval office. Gary White House staff member comes and
to tell us. And by the way, that hallway outside
the oval it's not that big anyway, he said, duncan, Shotgun,
the president is better to see you. So we go
in the Oval office. The President is behind the resolute desk.
He gets up from the resolute desk and he walks

(01:20:37):
over to the shell bookcase.

Speaker 5 (01:20:39):
Well, Gary, he knows my name.

Speaker 7 (01:20:43):
He said, well, Shotgun, I understand that you were the
MC and kept the people entertained why they're waiting for
me in San Diego. And I said, yes, mister President.

Speaker 5 (01:20:53):
I did. And I bring you my trademark ranger.

Speaker 7 (01:20:56):
Hat, and I hope you'll put it on. And he goes,
well he put it on. It was President Ronald Reagan
in the book.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
That's a great Reagan impression. You do that really? Well, oh, well,
I had a little nay.

Speaker 5 (01:21:11):
Michael Reagan.

Speaker 7 (01:21:12):
Michael Reagan, his son is friend of mine. And when
you get a copy, you get a stamp. It's not
really the president's signature. But in the book, if you look, uh,
in the book, all I want to do is play
the hits available on Amazon and Barnesanoble dot com.

Speaker 5 (01:21:27):
Uh. If you go in.

Speaker 7 (01:21:28):
There, you will see uh the president's signature. Michael Reagan
went to his dad and Santa Barbara and actually had
him sign that's actually his signature and it's not a stamp.

Speaker 5 (01:21:41):
I value that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
That's phenomenal because of your dad's involvement with trains, You've
had a continuing lifelong love of trains.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
Haven't you.

Speaker 5 (01:21:50):
Tom Oh. Absolutely.

Speaker 7 (01:21:52):
But the problem is when I was a kid, I
was I came home from the train store and I said, Dad,
I'd like to have a train, said, and he goes
nothing doing sun I worked sixteen hours a day.

Speaker 5 (01:22:03):
I don't want to see him when I come home. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:22:06):
So anyway, and so maybe now as an adult, I
had somebody else build my train layout twenty five thousand
dollars Lloyd's Layouts of Los Angeles.

Speaker 5 (01:22:21):
They do a marvelous job.

Speaker 7 (01:22:22):
And I've got a downtown area, residential area, I've got
four industrial areas plus a yard and the hero in
the downtown area. I've always wanted this because I've never
seen another train layout with an AM FMTV station right
downtown and I had a tower, yeah, tower for the
big tower, you know, not the one like WLWS, which

(01:22:47):
is a standing tower, but it's a tower on my layout,
and yeah, I have lots of fun with it. And
if any of your listeners are ever in San Diego,
I'm going to run train every Wednesday from one to
four and they can come out to the San Diego

(01:23:07):
Model Railroad Museum very near the world famous San Diego
Zoo and they could see me run trains and I
get to visit with them on my show on Sirius
XM sixties go Old Channel seventies, where I've mentioned that
and I've had lots of people come out.

Speaker 5 (01:23:21):
It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
I bet you have.

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
What was your first radio job, Tom, very first.

Speaker 7 (01:23:28):
First radio Yeah, the very first one. I was sixteen
years old. I was hanging around a radio station in
the week and then the weekend guy was the program
director of this FM station now Gary. As you know,
FM back in nineteen sixty six was like a background
music thing. AM was the big deal and if you

(01:23:50):
want to really wanted to be on a big station,
you had to be on an AM station like KCBQ,
like KGB.

Speaker 5 (01:23:57):
Like wl W.

Speaker 7 (01:24:00):
You know. But I love those call letters man anyway,
So I got a job at ANFM station on the
weekends on Sunday because nobody wanted Nobody wants to work Sunday.
So George Manning, who was working weekends at radio station KDO,
where I made my little tapes for.

Speaker 5 (01:24:19):
My bootleg station. Anyway, he said, how would you like
to do Sunday morning at KPRI.

Speaker 7 (01:24:25):
I said, I'd love that. So I was sixteen years
old and I got my first job on the air
Sunday morning playing jazz Frank Sinatra, Sergio Mendez and Brazil
sixty six That's.

Speaker 5 (01:24:38):
How I remember.

Speaker 7 (01:24:39):
It was sixty six, and then of course we stopped
down at eight o'clock. I did a children's radio show,
which remember I've always wanted to be a children's show
host sometime in my career, and I got that because
I was I did Words of Poppin', which is a
word game show for kids. Graw Hill own the show

(01:25:01):
and that went for five years. And then I did
the KUSI Kids Club with the cartoons and everything for
about twelve years here in San Diego. So that was
my first kid show on radio, and it was when
I was sixteen.

Speaker 2 (01:25:16):
So what made you so interested in doing children's programming.

Speaker 7 (01:25:21):
Well, you've got to realize we all have heroes. Frank
Thompson was my radio hero, and Johnny downs was my
television hero because my dad was Johnny Downes's engineer on
that show Oh Wow.

Speaker 5 (01:25:36):
And he was so good. He was so great.

Speaker 7 (01:25:38):
Johnny Downs was and I talk about him in the
book because Johnny and I were both in for an
audition for this Words of Poppin' show and I walk
in and I said, Johnny, are you here to audition?
He said, yes, I am. I said, well, listen, I'm
going to get out of here. You're going to do
Words of Pop and I'm going to watch every Saturday.
He said, you have just as much right to audition

(01:26:00):
as I do. So he gave me a cup of
coffee out of his thermos, and he walked in did
his audition, and he came back out and he says, Shotgun, congratulations.
I hope you do your best. So I went in
and did my audition for Words of Poppin' and then
I left, and I knew.

Speaker 5 (01:26:20):
Johnny was going to get the job.

Speaker 7 (01:26:21):
I just knew it because he had the experience, and
so I didn't hear from the people for like weeks.

Speaker 5 (01:26:29):
All of a sudden I got a phone call.

Speaker 7 (01:26:30):
From the producer, you got the job. I said, wait
a minute, you got the wrong guy, Johnny Downs. You
need to hire him. He said, no, you related more
to the kids than Johnny did. And so I did
that show for five years. And that story is also
in the book.

Speaker 1 (01:26:48):
What a Feather in Your Cap To actually supersede your
childhood television host hero and take a job, that's an
incredible time.

Speaker 7 (01:27:01):
Well that's happened again because you know what when I
got the job at Kate Earth one O one in
Los Angeles. Uh, the real Don Steele we all remember there.

Speaker 5 (01:27:09):
The real Don.

Speaker 7 (01:27:10):
Steele's voice is used in the movie Once upon a
Time in Hollywood.

Speaker 5 (01:27:14):
I'm Burial dold Field.

Speaker 7 (01:27:16):
Right, you know when when Brad Pitt gets in the
car and he turns on the ignition, that's the ninety
three k h J.

Speaker 5 (01:27:22):
I'm Burial dolds Field.

Speaker 7 (01:27:23):
There we go.

Speaker 3 (01:27:24):
You know that that's his voice.

Speaker 5 (01:27:26):
That's what.

Speaker 7 (01:27:27):
So anyway, when he passed away, and he was one
of my radio heroes, I loved the real Don Steele
and Wolfman Jack. I became friends with Wolfman Jack.

Speaker 5 (01:27:39):
But I only met the real Don Steele three.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Howl yeah when he passed away, Go ahead, I'm sorry.

Speaker 7 (01:27:46):
Well, when he passed away, Frank, they had the memorial
and Mike Phillips, the program director, was looking for somebody
to succeed the real Don Steele. He told me this,
He said, he closed the door of his office and
he said a prayer, and he said, God, please help

(01:28:06):
me find the right guy. And there was a whisper
that came into his mind, shot Don domb and he
called me and he hired me, and I was there
for twenty years.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:28:20):
Now, and you talk about what a couple of great
radio legends to have, as you know, as friends and
successors or whatever you succeed them, the real Don Steele
and Wolfman Jack.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
What was Robert like in person?

Speaker 7 (01:28:35):
Robert was a good friend mine before I came to
ca Earth. He was We used to watch sixty minutes,
and we after the sixty minutes, we always used to,
you know, talk about it after the show. I was
so anyway, I guess I was out after sixty minutes
one time and he called my house and my wife
Linda entered the phone.

Speaker 5 (01:28:55):
She said hello, and he says, yeah, this is R. W.
Margan a shotgun there.

Speaker 7 (01:28:59):
No he's not well tell him. Robert called and she said, okay, Bob.

Speaker 5 (01:29:04):
No, no, Bob lives here. He hated to be called Bob.
It was always Robert W. Morgan.

Speaker 7 (01:29:11):
But anyway, No, he was a he was a good guy.
He was he was firm, he was eccentric. H he
but but to me he was a good guy. But
some people aggravated him and and I guess he.

Speaker 5 (01:29:27):
Got a wreck.

Speaker 1 (01:29:27):
Well when I said Robert, I meant wolfman Jack as
his real name was.

Speaker 2 (01:29:32):
First name was Robert Smith, Bob Smith.

Speaker 5 (01:29:35):
Yeah, oh yeah, but that's also in the book.

Speaker 4 (01:29:37):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:29:38):
By the way, my book has got happiness, but it's
got ups and downs. Sure, there's some things in my
life that happened that I'm not too proud of.

Speaker 5 (01:29:48):
And uh uh my house got raided by the police.
That's in the book. Uh. And it was because I
did these tonight shows.

Speaker 7 (01:29:56):
I built a tonight show, said way before Kramer and
my garage and very professionally done, had a crew, and
I had the Sheriff of San Diego County, the chief
of police, and I played ed McMahon and so we
did this show and it was a cult favorite of
both departments.

Speaker 5 (01:30:15):
After seven years, there was some murders.

Speaker 7 (01:30:18):
That happened here in San Diego of prostitutes, and so
they thought the police was going to, you know, defend
their officers. They thought an officer killed this prostitute. So
they took it away away from the local police department,
and the state Attorney General formed a homicide task force.

Speaker 5 (01:30:38):
And they raided my house. Gary And in the front.

Speaker 7 (01:30:41):
Now I was doing the kids show over at KUSI
at the end and the front. You know, I always
wanted to be on the front page of the paper,
above the fold. The headline was seven hundred and fifty
tapes seized in murdered probe. Anyway, a lot of the
reporters were coming out.

Speaker 5 (01:30:59):
And you know, yeah by the way, yeah yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:31:04):
Anyway, they Heisman Trophy winner Johnny Rogers said that he
one of the dead prostitutes was on the.

Speaker 5 (01:31:11):
Show, and that was a lie.

Speaker 7 (01:31:12):
So that's why they rated the house.

Speaker 2 (01:31:16):
We got left.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
We have two minutes, Tom, right around two minutes, and
I want to hear about the Hollywood the Star and
the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Shotgun Tom Kelly has a star,
and radio people don't don't get radio people don't get stars.

Speaker 7 (01:31:34):
No, they don't like giving them to radio people. But
I had to wait for mine. But you know, Robert W.
Morgan had a star, the real Don Steele had a star.
So t Earth was really the radio station of the
rock stars for disc jockeys. So anyway, I got rejected
the first year, the second year, but then the third

(01:31:56):
year I got my star, and I asked Stevie.

Speaker 5 (01:31:59):
Wonder to beat my speaker, and he was there.

Speaker 7 (01:32:01):
Along with Art Leveau and Johnny Mathis and my program director,
Johnny Ka he was also a speaker, and thousands of people,
I mean, maybe I shouldn't say thousands. Hundreds of people
showed up, including radio's best friend Art Volo.

Speaker 1 (01:32:18):
He was there to patcha there there you go, two mentions.
Art got two mentions. That's perfect. The book is all
I want to do is play the hits, and he
has been doing it successfully and supersedingly successfully now for
decades and decades and decades. The one and only Shotgun
Tom Kelly from Sirius XM's sixties gold our guest on

(01:32:40):
American History on the radio, and Tom It's been such
a pleasure and I know we could go on like
this for hours, but unfortunately.

Speaker 5 (01:32:46):
Yeah we can't.

Speaker 2 (01:32:47):
That's the time with.

Speaker 7 (01:32:48):
Jarry, you are such a big time guy. I am
just delighted to be on your show because you've had
Pat Saint John, You've had flash Stelps, and now you've
got me.

Speaker 5 (01:32:58):
Thank you, Sank, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:33:02):
The shotgun On the nightcap, we continue of this nightcap
from Monday, December fifteenth, twenty twenty five. Gary, Jeff and
I got to tell you we got some sports for
the out of sorts. And it was a terrible weekend
for football fans like me and maybe like the wild Man.
It was just not a great weekend of football in

(01:33:25):
the NFL.

Speaker 2 (01:33:26):
Or the Heisman's or you know.

Speaker 1 (01:33:28):
The only bright light all weekend long to me, wild Man,
was the fact that my dad's Navy beat the Army
seventeen to sixteen. And even though they tried to lose
that game. But my Lions, I mean, every one of
the teams I root for let me down over the weekend.

(01:33:49):
And I gotta tell you what, at this point in
the evening, wild Man, I'm tired. I just want to
finish the show and get out of here, like maybe
Joe Burrowfield's about to being or maybe maybe the entire
Bengals organization is just tired and they all just want
to go home and forget that there's still games to play.
A wild man your thoughts, am am, I just am

(01:34:12):
I a weenie because I'm tired and I want to
get out of here. And as Joe Burrow have we
seen the last of the Joe Burrow era with the Bengals?

Speaker 11 (01:34:21):
Well, I think you're kind of Bengalized already. It's just
the way I am talking.

Speaker 1 (01:34:25):
Well that I became Bengalized when I became a Kansas
City Chiefs fan seven years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:34:32):
And even that didn't help me this weekend. It was
a bad weekend.

Speaker 11 (01:34:37):
If you're you know, you're fans of what you're talking about,
especially here in Bengals Nation.

Speaker 2 (01:34:42):
I mean that's yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:34:43):
We had the you know, the big snow, the big snow,
and the Bengals organization knew it was coming and they
weren't prepared for it. Fans had to uh wait outside
forever to get into the stadium because they didn't have
enough ticket takers or security personnel of them miss almost
the first quarter. Then they get into the stadium and

(01:35:04):
they have the seats are not cleared with snow, which
is a violation of NFL rules. But according to the NFL,
the Bengals.

Speaker 2 (01:35:14):
They cooperated. Well that you know, I'm not buying that.
Well no, yeah, okay, hold on, Hold on a second.

Speaker 1 (01:35:19):
The NFL, the shield as it is, controls everything that
these teams do, from how much players are paid, the
salary caps to what I mean. They have very strict
rules in this membership, this thirty two member club. And

(01:35:40):
how can the Bengals get away with skirting the rules
of not cleaning the stadium seats and railings. They're supposed
to do that.

Speaker 11 (01:35:50):
Okay, Well, they came out and said the NFL came
out and said that they they they kind of went
by the policy, but they really did. Because there were
so many seats that were just covered with snow. They
would not allow fans in with cardboard. So the fans
could put cardboard they could stand on, they keep their

(01:36:10):
feet from freezing on the concrete. They confiscated the cardboard
and it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
Was just a mess. Car's a mess.

Speaker 11 (01:36:16):
And here's the thing, Gary, Jeff, they knew this snow
was coming.

Speaker 2 (01:36:20):
Okay, they knew the snow was coming. This wouldn't happen
in Green Bay.

Speaker 11 (01:36:24):
They had eleven hours to clean that stadium up, and
they chose not to do it, not to take care
of their season ticket holders. They had eleven hours. They
could have got people from the jail to come down
and clean, but they.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
Don't want to pay those people.

Speaker 11 (01:36:38):
They've got people to come in here and clean that stadium.

Speaker 5 (01:36:40):
They didn't get.

Speaker 2 (01:36:40):
People to do it well man.

Speaker 1 (01:36:42):
And in Buffalo they get the fans out there, and
they'll pay fans to come and clear the stadium because
they are exactly they have to deal with that all
the time in Buffalo. I mean, and it's not like
it never snows here, and it's not like it's never
below zero here.

Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
I mean, this is not.

Speaker 1 (01:37:01):
The coldest ever Bengals game that's been played, as you
well know, mister Freezer Bowl, mister Ice Bowl. But uh,
you know, it's it is absolutely when I saw the
posts on social media in the aftermath of that game
and the little girl is trying to see over the

(01:37:21):
snow on the railing. When it's it's an NFL rule
the teams have to have to find a way to
do that before games. And and the fact that the
fact that they wouldn't let people with cardboard into stand
on Well, we all know that cardboard can be used
as a violent weapon as a as a legal weapon.

(01:37:43):
So yeah, really really a big threat from cardboard coming
into the stadium.

Speaker 2 (01:37:48):
What was that about this?

Speaker 11 (01:37:50):
Well, the stadium operations the completely botched it all by
not having enough ticket takers and uh.

Speaker 2 (01:37:56):
Security personnel to get people in.

Speaker 11 (01:37:58):
Like I said, a lot of a lot of fans
didn't get in until the end of the first quarter. Gary, Jeff,
what the hell is with that? And then here's here's
what really grubs my ass. You get the TV stations,
all of them just kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:38:13):
Like brushing it off, brushing this off.

Speaker 11 (01:38:15):
If you're a season ticket holder, how many thousands of
dollars that you're paying and you get treated like that,
you know a lot I'm gonna say, enough is enough.
And I know a lot of people right now. I'm
telling you they're giving up their tickets. They've had enough,
they've seen enough, they've had enough. You know, you don't
treat people like that. I mean, it's just like, dude,
does the Brown family really care about their fan base

(01:38:36):
or their customers. It's obvious they don't. I mean we're
seeing it. But yesterday, and then you get the product
that we saw in the field yesterday. The fellas embarrassing.
The fans couldn't get in until after the first quarter.
The Bengals couldn't get into the end zone all game.
It was the first time they've been shut out at
home since when twenty seventeen or going back further than that,

(01:38:57):
and I was against the Ravens. Yeah, it was just
lackluster all the way around. And you talk about the
fans being disgruntled with the organization. How disgreuntled do you
think Joe Burrow really is with the Bengals organization? After
the press conference on his birthday and then he had
to backtrack, and then yesterday, I mean he just he

(01:39:21):
looks he looks shell shocked. Oh, I think he's I
think he's disappointed. I mean, he he manned up and
said the game when you know it, I don't think
any team could have won a game with him at
quarterback yesterday, which.

Speaker 2 (01:39:33):
He's a stand up guy. He loves playing football.

Speaker 11 (01:39:36):
You know, I'm not gonna Joe Burrow is not going anywhere,
and again he's talking heads on natural television. They have
no clue what's going on here in Cincinnati. You know,
Joe Burrow is a loyal guy, and I'm sure behind
the scenes because he's not gonna come out and publicis
say that the Bengals need to do this and need
to do that, but you can bet that his voice
is going to be heard, and he's just frustrated. We're

(01:39:57):
all frustrated, well, you know, from the ticket as to
the security.

Speaker 2 (01:40:01):
People, to maybe Mike Brown.

Speaker 11 (01:40:03):
I guess he's frustrat but we're all frustrated over the season.
And injuries, of course played a part of this. I mean,
Trey Henson. They would not spend a ton of money.
The guy played four games.

Speaker 1 (01:40:13):
Yeah, not a good result, not a good return on
your investment.

Speaker 7 (01:40:20):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:40:20):
Here's the thing, too, is that Joe Burrow just wants
to win and the Bengals have not allowed him the
proper tools with which to compliment his talent. I mean
they've they've done things like signing and taking care of
Jamar Chase and t Higgins and Trey Hendrickson. When he

(01:40:43):
asked that, But my friend mo Egger on Saturday morning
made the point, and I believe he's correct here, is
that Joe Burrow does not do anything anything without intention,
and that that press conference that he gave back on
his birthday that sparked all these questions of Joe Burrow
leaving Cincinnati, Joe Burrow did that intentionally to send a message.

(01:41:07):
So the message has been sent to the organization. Will
they listen and can they do anything about that message?
That's the question right now, wild Man, how to get
is yeah, are you? Are you talking to me on
an Obama phone?

Speaker 2 (01:41:23):
Wild Man? All right?

Speaker 1 (01:41:25):
So I was making the point that on my show
Saturday morning, Moe Egger made the point that Joe Burrow,
in his estimation, doesn't do anything unintentionally, and that whole
tone and timbre of that press conference and the things
that Joe Burrow imparted last week was had an intention

(01:41:47):
of sending a message to the Bengals organization. And my
question you is do you think they'll receive that message
loud and clear going forward?

Speaker 2 (01:41:57):
Well, they'd be crazy not to. You know, pay attention
on Joe's.

Speaker 11 (01:42:00):
Saying because he is the faith of the franchise that
he's guaranteed I think two hundred and nine million dollars
still on his contract. I mean, as the as Joe
Burrow goes, the Bengals go.

Speaker 5 (01:42:13):
You need what Joe.

Speaker 11 (01:42:14):
When you see how Joe acts in the press conferences,
he doesn't ever really he pauses before he says something.
You know, he thinks stuff out because he's not gonna
get you know, backed into a corner some stuff that
he says no. And I hope that and I hope
that when the season ends and then Joe sits down
with the front office, that they listen to him. Not

(01:42:35):
that he has every answer, but there are changes that
have to be made, and one of them one of them.

Speaker 2 (01:42:39):
Gary, Jeff, I'm just gonna put it to you this way.

Speaker 11 (01:42:42):
Marvin Lewis, you know, straighten out this Bengals franchise got
him to the playoffs, but his last three years they
didn't make the playoffs. Zach Taylor came in here, but
a new culture in the locker room, got rid of
the knuckleheads. They won, they made the playoffs, but the
last three years they have not made the playoffs. And
what happened with Marvin Lewis he got fired, what happened

(01:43:03):
with Zach Taylor?

Speaker 12 (01:43:04):
Something's got a change. Bye by something's got a change,
something has to change. Bye bye bye bye bye bye.
Uh it wasn't lost on me. And I sent this
to a couple of people. Maybe I sent it to you. Uh,
the irony wasn't lost on me. That yesterday, on the sideline,
as the Bengals are getting thoroughly thumped by Baltimore, Zach

(01:43:26):
Taylor is wearing a sweatshirt that says, yeah, inspired change. Well,
you know what, I think a lot of people are inspired,
inspired to change at the Bengals head coaching position, Zach,
what a weird T shirt or sweatshirt for you to
wear that says inspired change? When you're inspiring change every
game this year with your coaching And.

Speaker 11 (01:43:49):
I think the change might have I might have the
ax might have fell with this so called shirt shirt
inspired change?

Speaker 4 (01:43:55):
On what was it? Fourth and four?

Speaker 11 (01:43:57):
And they decided to throw a long pass to try
to get the ball in between two defenders to josekeep
throwing the ball deep?

Speaker 2 (01:44:05):
Is but there's only fourth and four? Is that the
best play you've got in your back pocket? Come on, man,
you know I have no idea.

Speaker 5 (01:44:14):
You know what.

Speaker 1 (01:44:16):
Bengals fans are not only alone in their suffering and
playing Monday morning quarterback and kind of ruing what happened
over the weekend. I as a Kansas City Chiefs fan,
uh am really really concerned about another quarterback, Patrick Mahomes,
who was injured at the end of yesterday's loss.

Speaker 2 (01:44:38):
The Chiefs, the chief when he went down.

Speaker 1 (01:44:41):
The Chiefs being drummed out of the playoffs for the
first time. Guys, this is the first time in what
six years that they won't be in the AFC Championship Game.

Speaker 2 (01:44:51):
Five or six years and like eleven years that haven't
been in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (01:44:55):
Right exactly. So it is a sad day for Chiefs
fans like me as well as for Bengal fans like you,
and also my Detroit Lions. What has happened to the
Lions here? I mean, they've had a lot of injuries.
I know that. Have you been following that at all

(01:45:16):
here and there?

Speaker 11 (01:45:17):
But they had long injuries last year, especially towards the
end of the season, and that caught up to him.

Speaker 1 (01:45:21):
Yeah, that's what kept him out of the Super Bowl
last year, and they may keep him out of the
playoffs this year. It's not a lock that Detroit's gonna
make it with that, with that NFC North the way
it is and the Bears. Are you surprised with that Bears?
Are you surprised about the Bears resurgence under Ben Johnson?

Speaker 11 (01:45:42):
I've been shocked about the Bears. Nobody saw this, Yeah,
nobody saw this. They just continue to, you know, get
the job done.

Speaker 2 (01:45:50):
Quietly, they really do.

Speaker 1 (01:45:52):
And and green Bay, I mean, you know Green Bay
and Matt Lafleur and Jordan Love. I just yesterday was
just a weird day in the NFL. For me, it
really was. And it's not like, not like I'm I'm
a fan of the Cowboys, because I'm probably the farthest

(01:46:14):
thing away from a fan of the Cowboys, but I've.

Speaker 2 (01:46:17):
Never been a fan of the Cowboys.

Speaker 11 (01:46:18):
On time the Cowboys lose, it's a great day, and
it was great last night watching them lose.

Speaker 1 (01:46:23):
But it was just, don't you agree, it was just
a weird weekend in the NFL. There were some results.
There were some results that really kind of left me
scratching my head, going what's going on here? And let's
turn our attention for a few minutes to the Heisman
Award presentation. Neither one of us surprised at Fernando Mendoza

(01:46:44):
wound up walking away with the trophy. My man, Diego
Pavia came in second in the voting, and you know,
I was kind of hoping against hope that somehow he
might rise above Mendoza and his Indiana Hoosiers. But Indiana's,
you know, the number one seed going into the college

(01:47:05):
football playoff and Mendoza has been a key part of that.
But if not for Diego Pavia, Vanderbilt doesn't win ten games,
they may not win enough games to be Bowl eligible.
Without Diego Pavia, he certainly carried that team on his back.
I've talked to a lot of Vanderbilt people who say,

(01:47:26):
not only was he one of the best quarterbacks in
the country, he was the reason that Vanderbilt won ten wins.
I mean, you talk about a guy carrying a team
on his back. That was Diego Pavia, and to me,
that is emblematic of what it takes to be a
Heisman Trophy winner.

Speaker 11 (01:47:44):
Your thoughts on that, well, there's no doubt in my
mind that Fernando Mendoza was the logical choice, the number
one in the country, undefeated.

Speaker 8 (01:47:54):
Guy.

Speaker 11 (01:47:55):
The guy's a winner. I mean the guy as a winner.
You look at this up bringing too. Have you saw
his speech? It was like, you know, it was it
was a great, great, great speech.

Speaker 2 (01:48:04):
No, I think I think he's I think he's awesome. Okay,
go ahead, and he's well deserved.

Speaker 11 (01:48:08):
And then Diego Pavia, I mean the numbers he put up,
what he did at Vanderbilt, because they're not known to
be a football power. Either's Indiana, but the Vanderbilt's kind
of like always been down on the lower and down
on the totem pole. But the Diego Pavia, I mean,
he'll use this to to be, you know, to be
a better quarterback in the National Football League. The thing

(01:48:29):
about Diego Pavia, you know, and he finished second whatever
that's for.

Speaker 2 (01:48:34):
But he got a case of the gouabat it.

Speaker 11 (01:48:36):
And he should have kept his mouth shut because that
that that, you know, that's just kind of like, well,
you're a sore loser if you're gonna be complaining about that.

Speaker 2 (01:48:42):
I didn't he didn't come back down that apologized. I didn't.
I didn't see I didn't see what he said. What
did he say? Initially? I can't really explain.

Speaker 11 (01:48:50):
I I just there wasn't it wasn't pretty and he
dropped I think an m bomb uh about the voters.
So it wasn't it wasn't pretty. But he after twenty
four hours and he issued an apology and said, I,
you know, I overstepped my bath. I shouldn't you know,
I should have realized you know that I should have
done this, and you know, like accept my apology.

Speaker 2 (01:49:10):
I accept as apology, he manned up. Okay, that's all
you can ask for, right right.

Speaker 1 (01:49:16):
Well, I mean, once you start getting the backlash, you
either you either double down or you you take it back,
and you you know, you choose that which hill you
want to die on there?

Speaker 3 (01:49:28):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:49:29):
I don't know about.

Speaker 1 (01:49:29):
Diego Pobby at the next level because he's so short,
wild man. I talked to my friend Scott Droud, who
of course famously played basketball at Vanderbilt and was a
great player there and has been to about uh went
to about five home games this year because he's got
a nephew that's a second string kicker on the Vandy squad.

(01:49:52):
So he went to about five home games and he
said he's been right next to Diego Pabby and Scott's
he's like maybe six one two. He said, Paby is
no more than five to nine, even though they list
him at six feet.

Speaker 11 (01:50:05):
Well, then he goes to the Canadian Football League where
you can make up make a living and prove what he
can play in that way playing it at that level
aka Doug Flute.

Speaker 2 (01:50:13):
He could do that.

Speaker 1 (01:50:14):
I think he's a good enough football player. He could
play almost any position in the NFL outside of alignment
or quarterback, and you know what, he'd be great. He
would be great to have as a special teams player
a running back because he can run.

Speaker 2 (01:50:31):
He can roll right through people. He proved that.

Speaker 1 (01:50:34):
And you have a ready made second string quarterback ready
to go in case your starter goes down. So any
number of NFL teams might like to have a Diego
Pavia on the ross.

Speaker 11 (01:50:47):
Unlike the Kansas City Chiefs who ran out there, yeah yesterday, Minshew,
Oh my god, Gardner, Minshew.

Speaker 2 (01:50:55):
That's the best they can find. Well, it was the best.
It was the best mustache they could find. I'll give
you that.

Speaker 1 (01:51:05):
Yeah, yeah, all right, wild I think we've covered all
the bases. So Joe Burrow isn't going anywhere. Joe Burrow
was not going any Zaza is Zach Taylor packing up
the moving van.

Speaker 2 (01:51:20):
The season.

Speaker 11 (01:51:20):
I would say, I would say, he means he probably
needs to call two men in a truck and see
how much it's gonna cost. Maybe maybe maybe to move because.

Speaker 2 (01:51:29):
Something's gonna happen here.

Speaker 11 (01:51:30):
I know something's There's got to be some change, not
only with the personnel but in the front office because
Zach Taylor is not cutting it and the fan and
the fans don't like it either. Yeah, well like and
don't ask me who I you know who I want
this head coach?

Speaker 2 (01:51:44):
I wrote?

Speaker 11 (01:51:45):
I mean I think about I'm thinking, well, they're going
to make a change. Do we bring in an established
coach or they're bringing a guy who's never head coach?

Speaker 7 (01:51:53):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:51:53):
Ever, hed gone down that road? Yeah, every gone down
down road with Zach Taylor.

Speaker 11 (01:51:56):
So are you bringing a guy that's been a previous
head coach like Mike McCarthy? Maybe maybe bringing John Maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:52:02):
Maybe the Bengals will follow the advice on Zach Taylor's
sweatshirt on the sidelines yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:52:08):
And inspire change. Inspire change?

Speaker 11 (01:52:13):
How many people and went out and bought those shirts?

Speaker 2 (01:52:16):
Wild man? Uh see in church? Merry Christmas? Talk to
you start without me if I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:52:21):
There, Okay, you bet we'll be going for a long
time without wild Man there, I'm afraid. Merry Christmas to you,
thanks for putting up with his on the nightcap. And
now we end tonight's show as we do all of
these shows that I host, by playing our national anthem,
the only national anthem of the United States of America,

(01:52:43):
the Star Spangled Banner to honor America on seven hundred
w l W

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