The Nightcap with Gary Jeff Walker -- 12/23/25

Andy Furman, Gary Benoit, Matt Mohning, James Bradley, Billy J Kramer join Gary Jeff Walker on the Christmas Eve Eve edition of the Nightcap.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
And Hanika is over. But you know what, we got
Hanakah Harry on the line anyway, heralding and making the
way for Santa Claus, Old Saint Nick. It's the one,
the only. He got me a Drado for Christmas, Andy Furman,
good evening.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Well how are you?

Speaker 3 (00:17):
How are you? Are you getting ready for Santa? Don
your chimney?

Speaker 4 (00:20):
Really are you?

Speaker 1 (00:21):
No, we don't have the chimney's blocked off. You know,
in these old houses where I live in South Kate,
they made us block the chimneys. They're all blocked off.
You can't use them. I guess it was an insurance
or a fire hazard or something like that.

Speaker 5 (00:35):
Andy.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
So there's no chimney for Santa to slide down. He
has to come to the door like everybody else.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I leave some cookies and milk.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Well I would leave cookies and milk out, but the
damn cat will eat them.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Oh all right, Frankie the cat.

Speaker 5 (00:53):
Anyway, So how are you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm doing great.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Every time I get you on the phone, and Chad,
I feel as if like I'm a cop. I got
so many things on my mind. Things ta get off
my chest. You're just so you're you're a breath of
fresh air for me because I have an opportunity to unload,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (01:12):
It's like it's like right.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
I don't know if I create any results, but I
feel better getting it off my chest because there's certain
things out there in life that are wrong, just wrong.
No one talks about him. I do with you, and
I think it's good. Maybe someone will hear it.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
As long as this, as long as this makes you
feel better, firm, and that's all that matters to me.

Speaker 5 (01:33):
And that and filling this time.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
Okay, are you ready? Because I got a list, a
laundry list.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
You're making a list. He checked it twice and he's
ready to go.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Go for I want to talk about the National Football
League first. I want to talk about the Los Angeles
Rams and their receiver, a Poka Nakula pooko Akua, the
wide receiver, tremendous wide receiver. He now is apologizing for
performing a gesture that was anti Semitic in nature and
maybe harmful and a harmful stereotypic as jew people. All right,
So he did that and he apologized. I'm sure he

(02:03):
didn't do the apologizing on social media. Players agent did
it that's okay, He apologized he was too stupid to
realize it was wrong. If you have any doubts in
life about doing anything, don't do it.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
Okay, don't do it.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
But my problem is this didn't get a fine, didn't
get suspended. You do something like that in the other place,
you're gone. You'n't even get a chance to clean out
your desk. They'll send it to your home. So I
don't understand why they get this pass. Why do athletes
get this pass an anti semitic gesture? Where many of
the owners of the National Football League teams are Jewish, Okay,
the other of the New England Patriots is Jewish.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
I don't get it.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
And there's no pushback, there's no upsent it that. There's
nothing going on here, not even a suspension. All right,
Guy DK Metcalf of the Steelers goes into the stands
and smacks a fan. He suspended two games. He's gonna
lose five hundred and fifty five thousand dollars for two games.
This guy makes an anti semitic remark. Life goes on.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, he's gonna play. Tell me what's

(02:57):
wrong here?

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Well, you know, not only do Medcalf has the chance
to miss the last two games of the season for
the Steelers, and they desperately need him at this point.
But he may lose a forty five million dollars guaranteed
bonus right for this suspension and what he did. And
he didn't go into the stands. This is a fan

(03:19):
that he had problems with, yes, Seattle, and it's the
same guy, and apparently they have a long connection, you know,
And that doesn't make it right. I'm just saying, And
I didn't see the Nikoua thing. What exactly did he do?

Speaker 5 (03:35):
Andy, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
With Jesse, I saw it on social media. I don't
even worry, I Pete. It was just a bad thing,
just a bad gesture. But let's get back to the
DK Metcalf situation. You're right, he didn't go into the stands.
This guy Kennedy, who was the guy, his last name
was Kennedy. He was sitting in the front row wearing
like a blue wig, and he was leaning over and
saying something, apparently allegedly saying something about the DK's mother. Okay,
and yes, they've had some incidences in Seattle when he

(03:57):
was a fan in Seattle when the Steelers played in Seattle,
and look, I will never condone a player going into
the stands. You just can't do it. You got to
bite your tongue and say, you know, guys an idiot,
It wasn't. You're right, he went over to went over
to the guy by the railing. That's but I got
a better story than that. When I when I started
the Fox Sports Radio over a dozen years ago, my

(04:19):
first partner was a guy by the.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Name of Lincoln Kennedy.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Lincoln Kennedy played in the National Football League and he
was playing in Denver. I think he's playing for the
for the Raiders at the time, and they were throwing
snowballs and I think he got hit with a snowball.
I mean that that could be dangerous. You know that
he ran on, He went into the stands. He beat
the living daylights out of the guy. He caught the
guy who threw the snowball. He beat the living daylights
out of the guy. The day was in Denver, the

(04:42):
game was in Denver, and you could go on social
media season I remember this. I remember that Lincoln was great.
And Lincoln is a gentleman. I mean, he's a general giant.
I weighed about three hundred pounds, about sixty six. Just
a good guy, good family man. And for him to
get rattled like this, and the only other person that
could rattle him with me on the radio because I
want to use the term soft, He says, they've ever

(05:03):
used the term soft with athletes. That's the worst thing
you could say, because I said that this guy looks
soft on the field. So don't that I used to
rattle him a little bit. But the guy, I love
him to death. I still keep in touch with Lincoln.
He does the games, by the way for the Raiders
now in the radio. He does that. But he ran
into the stands and he beat the living daylights and
I think he was suspended. I don't know the results
of that. But again, you know you're in danger. Why

(05:26):
is this guy throwing snowballs? You know, this guy Kennedy
basically has a history of doing these, I guess yelling
and screaming. I don't know why he'd even do that.
He should be not allowed to go to games, That's
what it should happen. This guy's going to lose over
a half a million dollars to two games, then they
should throw this guy out of the stadium.

Speaker 5 (05:42):
Well they do.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
They do that in Major League Baseball, Yes, when a
fan interferes with a player or a game in such
a fashion. And I don't understand is this is this
like his hobby, his pastime. He just goes from team
to team and.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
Just life, I mean something with your life. Go go
visit a home with kids with sick kids instead.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Of going to a game of ral an athlete.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Here's the thing, here's the thing that I've always wondered
about Andy, And uh, it's about the psyche of some
fans like this guy with the stringy blue wig the
other night.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
It's not funny really no.

Speaker 5 (06:22):
But but here's the thing I always wondered.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Why do they think that the ticket price that they
paid entitles them to literally mess with the game, to
mess with the players. No, the ticket, the price you
pay for a ticket, whether it's an NFL, NBA, MLB,
Major League Soccer, NHL, or any college sporting event, that

(06:47):
entitles you to be in the stands and root and
cheer for or boo the h in a proper manner
that you put it does not allow you to participate
in the game. If if you want to participate in
the game. You need to be a player, You need
to uh maybe be an owner, you need to be

(07:07):
a coach or something. But the price you pay for
that ticket doesn't allow you to do anything involving contact
with the players or interfere in a game.

Speaker 5 (07:18):
It just doesn't.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
The only thing I can be the only log that
gives them life. You know, you know, when you think
of anything in life, when there's a problem, go trace
it back to money. Chris Collins would tell me that,
you know, go go back, take the steps backwards, and
say money is the root of all evil. Maybe these
people do that for hopes of an athlete smacking them,

(07:40):
beating the crap out of them, and they could sue
them for a big chunk of change. That's the only
thing I can think of why they may do it.
If not, if that's not the answer, that then Metley deranged.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Kind of like running out in traffic because an ambulance
chaser is paying you to do it.

Speaker 5 (07:54):
I mean one of those deals.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
It's cunning him about that.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
That's a different story. Okay, are you ready for something else?

Speaker 5 (08:01):
This is I am ready for ahead.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Whine is forming right now for firing college football coaches.
And the reason they're firing these guys, and they're firing them,
many of them with cause, so they don't have to
pay the guaranteed bonus laden contracts that they have.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
All right.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
So, most recently, Ohio University fired their football coach Brian Smith,
apparently allegedly for romantic relationships. Okay, now they claim one
maybe with a student. Here's my part problem. You know,
they probably want to fire the guy anyway. They don't
want to pay his contracts, so they're looking for and
his use to fire him with calls so enough to
pay him. All right, I promise you if you did

(08:38):
a survey without using names on the campus of Ohio
University of any professor being a math, professor, psychology, history,
you name it, economics, they have had an affair. He's
not the only guy in that campus who works there
in a professional capacity who's had an affair. So why
would you get fired for having an affair? That I
don't understand at all. They just wanted to get rid

(09:01):
of the guy, that's what they did.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Well quite possibly, maybe he was taking a page out
of Sharon Moore's.

Speaker 5 (09:06):
Playbook and uh you know, there you go. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
I don't I don't think that I would get into
that line of work just to pick up chicks or
to have sex. But some guys, I guess do And
maybe Brian was one of those guys he just got.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
But he's not the only one who's had an extra
marri of affair. And I don't think that's a.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Course, and it doesn't make it right for anybody else either.

Speaker 5 (09:29):
Andy. The point is.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
He got the less professor is having an affair.

Speaker 5 (09:36):
He got caught. That is the difference.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Maybe the mathematics professor hasn't gotten caught yet.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah, got caught, he gets fired. I don't think so.
Probably think so. It would be a lot less because
the public.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Eye, that's right, it would be a lot less public
and you and I wouldn't know about it.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
They would just care.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
They would just quietly say you need to leave, or
your tenure has been completed here, you need to go
somewhere else, you need to transit, just shove it under
the rug. So I'm sure it happens all the time,
but we don't know about it. And why do you
need to know about everything all the time.

Speaker 4 (10:20):
I don't want to know about it.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
You want to fire the guy, Fire the guy, but
don't ruin the guy's life, and don't make it so hey, no, no, no, no,
no no.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
No no no no no no. He had an affair,
he got caught. He ruined his own life, Andy.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Period by the guy's ruined his life, Sharon war And
you mentioned his name, the football coach of Michigan. You
know obviously its res inappropriate form. Okay, in appropriate relationship
with the stafferd. Okay, we understand that. Okay, Number one,
it takes two to tangle. Hey, why wasn't the staffer fired?
That's all I want to know.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Why was this?

Speaker 3 (10:51):
The staffer was the executive assistant to him in football.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
She was not fired.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
Okay, her name has been mentioned several times.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
That's number one.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
Number two, there's a lot of problems in Michigan, not
only football wise, and I'm talking off the field.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Now.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
There was a basketball coach who remember he smacked an
opposing assistant coach in the face. I remember that. Okay,
Not to be confused now with the same basketball coach
had an altercation with a guy in his own staff,
smacked his own guy. Okay. These they have recruit recruiting
our violations that have been uncovered. So the failure to
monitor problems in the staff comes from above, comes from above.

(11:26):
And the guy who should be fired now is the
athletic direct comes no, no, no, above the department. Okay,
Ward Manual is the Michigan director of athletics. He's been
sold as two thousand and four. He needs to be
fired because that athletic department is a zoo. It's out
of control. And look, I understand what Cheryl Moore did

(11:48):
was wrong. The basketball coach he did is wrong, but
it comes from above. There's no leadership. You can't have
people running crazy like that if this can't happen. So
they got to clean him out, get rid of him,
and have normal people as normal people working in that
athletic department.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Was what was the what was the phrase before? Institutional control?
Doesn't the athletic director? Isn't he in charge of institutional control?

Speaker 2 (12:12):
If he's the athletic director?

Speaker 5 (12:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (12:15):
Really?

Speaker 1 (12:15):
All right, Andy, these questions we're not gonna necessarily answer,
but maybe we can come up with one. During the break,
Andy fourman on the night cap tonight and he is
loaded for bear. I love it, I love it, I
love it.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
What Does that mean loaded for Bear? What does that mean?

Speaker 1 (12:31):
We will discuss when we return on seven hundred W LW.

Speaker 7 (12:36):
Is it true Tom Brenneman has not only seen the
Luckness Monster but beat.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
It in chess. I'm not at liberty to discuss, he said.

Speaker 7 (12:44):
True, there's a primitive Amazonian tribe that worships the Fannie
pat Tom Brennanman lost during a South American vacation. Sounds possible,
but not true. Is it true that listening to Tom
Brennaman makes your morning? You bet that's one hundred percent true.
Join me in the mornings, get your day started right
with the latest news, weather, traffic, sports, and lots of

(13:06):
laughs and more. Tom Brenhaman tomorrow morning at five am
on seven hundred WLW.

Speaker 8 (13:13):
More than a few of our patients have talked to
me about their first time, but it's not the first time.
You're probably thinking about.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Andy Furman is joining us and loaded for Bear means
you're ready to go.

Speaker 6 (13:25):
Andy.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
It means that you are firing on all cylinders. It
means you got you gotta loaded. You got a loaded
magazine in your mouth and you're just shooting off.

Speaker 5 (13:35):
That's what it means. Loaded for bear.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
Okay, thank you very much. I got a couple other
things on my mind, but you do clear the desk.
I want to clear my desk.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Of the new year.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
Okay, christ all right, I'm looking at these scores. Okay,
I followed sports, you know, I love sports.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Is my life.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
To put a lot of meals on my table and
look at women's college basketball. All right, I'm gonna give
you some scores. My namesake, Furman University in Greenville, South Carolina,
Furman Universe. He played Mars Hill Mars Hill University the
other day. The score was one ten to thirty six.
Then I've got some other scores. You gon to run
them by you. South Carolina Upstate one twelve, Actes Scott

(14:11):
thirty nine, West Georgia won sixteen, Wesleyan College twenty one,
Kent State one seventeen, Davis and Elton's thirty seven, Tennessee
one twelve, went through forty, UNC Greensboro one nineteen, Bob
Jones College thirty five, and Iowa State one all five,

(14:32):
Northern Illinois fifty two.

Speaker 5 (14:33):
And these were all women's games.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Andy women's collegiate games. Now, I want to understand what
does this do? What does this prove you talk about,
you know, I guess sportsmanship. I mean, why I don't
get it?

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Well?

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Number one, Number one, the premiere programs and the teams
that usually win these lopsided games are loaded with talent,
and they're very good. They've got good coaches.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
They and they need to understand that they playing schools
like Mars.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
They've always played the sisters of the poor outside their
conference so they can accumulate wins for the postseason in
the tournament.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
For reco, don't know what that proves. If I'm a
school university president, I'm embarrassed. I'm ashamed you're talking about sportsmanship.
Why why shake hands at the end of the game,
as they do on that line when you're losing, like
one twelve to thirty nine. There was a high school
basketball game.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
I looked this up the other day.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
A high school basketball game in Las Vegas. Las Vegas,
Del Sol defeated Cheyenne one, all four to one, one,
all four to one.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
One.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
Girl scored thirty points and at fourteen steels. If I'm
the coach, I woke up the court. I mean, how
do you schedule a game?

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Like?

Speaker 3 (15:42):
How do you sleep at night?

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Do you have a conscience.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
I mean, come on, really, you know what I want
to ask Andy is how do you sleep at night
if you're a coach, how do you have a conscience
if you let your team go out there that unprepared,
that they.

Speaker 5 (15:56):
Get slaughtered four to one.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
You know, I have a little bit of a little
bit of let me say you something, have a little
bit of pride and go back and realize that you
have work to do.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
That's there's a difference in talent. And that's why James Madison,
you know, that's why James Madison University and Tulane should
not have been playing Saturday. Know j Dame and you
have Vanderbilt should have been playing in the college.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
With you there right books?

Speaker 3 (16:22):
Is it the difference of talent lit those schools like
James Madison that had a great year, Tulane had a
great year, but they should play within their own league,
have their own tournament. They should not play with the
big boys. There's a diffinite difference in talent. There's a
different different in substitutions at backups, they're not as good.
I remember back in September seventh, I.

Speaker 4 (16:40):
Think it was nineteen ninety one.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
You see played Penn State. They lost eighty to eighty
to nothing. Eighty to nothing here in Cincinnati, all right,
And I asked Joe paternal may he rest in peace?
After the game, I went to the game, I said, coach,
why did you roll it up like that? He says, Andy,
you're gonna play something. I didn't want to have my
second and third steen team guys in there. These guys,
how they ever play. They want to prove to everybody

(17:04):
they could still play, and they want to play. The
ball started rolling, the snowball rolling down a hill.

Speaker 5 (17:09):
So you just you just got your right there.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
Those second and third teamers on those great teams get
a chance to be in the spotlight.

Speaker 5 (17:18):
And what's wrong with that? Andy?

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (17:21):
But the point is the team that is getting when
you know, when you know that one school is going
to dominate, when you see a school like Illinois, or
you know, even the smallest school like Furman's going to
dominate Mars Hill, they shouldn't be on the schedule now,
Penn State. You see, I don't think that Penn State
expected to win eighty one nothing that day. I don't
think they expected that. They really didn't. I mean, you see,

(17:43):
it was down in the dumps. There was time and
they were talking about, you see, going down the Division
three at that time. If you remember, I think it
was the late eighties, if not mistaken, I don't remember
the exact date.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
I haven't remember.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
It was the September the seventh, the day after my anniversary.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
I went to that game.

Speaker 5 (17:57):
I remember.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
I remember when I got here in the mid nineties,
even Andy, that I went to a UC football game
the first and only time that I think I've ever been,
And I wondered about, you know, the paucity of fans
in the stands for this game, and there was a
game that you see was winning. I forget who they
were playing, It doesn't matter right now. But the point is,

(18:20):
back in those days, the only reason there were people
in the stands at Knipport was because to buy seasons.
No because to buy season basketball tickets, and you see
it was a hot you had to buy football tickets too.
That's the only reason anybody was in the stands. So,

(18:41):
you see, was moribund for quite a long time. And
you know what here, look at this. They got better,
didn't they. They built the program up, the players got better,
the coaches got better, the money got better for the
athletic department and the focus on football. And look at
you see now they're perennially at least, I mean they're

(19:03):
in the Big twelve Conference.

Speaker 6 (19:05):
They are respectable. They used to be everybody's you know,
uh welcome.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
That when they were when they were in the American
Athletic Conference because they went to major ball games.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Well what I'm saying, what I'm saying is yeah, they'd
be just like James Madison and two late.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
They went they went to the Orange ball Okay, they
went there.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Okay, what happens?

Speaker 4 (19:30):
What happens?

Speaker 1 (19:32):
What happens oft times when you get trounced in a
college women's basketball game. I mean some of those times,
I mean they are the best basketball is played during
the layup drill, in the in the you know, in
the warm ups. But anyway, when a Mars Hill gets
defeated by Furman like that, you know, maybe eventually one

(19:56):
day the light bulb will go off. If they're playing
Division one basketball, maybe the light bulb will go off,
and you know it will motivate them to be better.

Speaker 5 (20:05):
That's the whole point.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
You know, you sound like a storybook character. You really
do it. I don't want I'm getting naiseous.

Speaker 6 (20:10):
I'm going to move on books.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Money, money has ruined college athletics because I.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Don't think, and maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
I think the fans love the fact that you See
is playing those big name schools in the Big Twelve,
but it's throwing off the competition balance. The scale is
tipped the other direction because U SEE does not have
the wherewithought to buy the players like schools like Kansas.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
They can't.

Speaker 3 (20:35):
I mean, do you think you See will ever win
a Big Twelve title in basketball?

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Do you really think so?

Speaker 3 (20:40):
I think people would rather see championships and maybe in
a smaller conference, then get their heads banged in in
a bigger conference. I mean, they're going to play Navy
now in a bowl game in January. Second and sores
be their quarterbacks opt that out into the transfer pool. Okay,
First of all, the morons that put that thing together
should realize that that portal should not be opened to

(21:00):
after the bowl games.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
After the bowl games, all.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Right, how's UC gonna play? They don't even know what
the quarterback is going to be against Navy.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Now in that game.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
You know, I don't respect these people that sit there
on these committees and make these rules. How do you
have the portal open during the bowl season or during
the playoffs. It doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
What about lank About Lane Kiffin leaving his old miss
team and they're in the college football playoffs?

Speaker 9 (21:24):
Agree with you?

Speaker 4 (21:25):
And you know what the hell?

Speaker 2 (21:26):
All miss one?

Speaker 3 (21:27):
And I guess what, all miss one and Kiffin is
in his contract. Got a bonus for the win? He
gets imported for that, you know what, got a couple
on hundred thousand dollars for that win.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Going right back to the nineteen nineteen seventies and the
Steve Miller band. Go on, take the money and run.
And that's what I gotta do right now.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
With you believe in me, You believe in me?

Speaker 5 (21:48):
Just just until next week?

Speaker 3 (21:50):
Okay, all right, I can hold my breath.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
I love you in Blue Andy Furman, the fur ball
on the nightcap right for Christmas. Merry Christmas to you, sir,
seven hundred WLW. Gary Benoit, who is editor in chief
of The New American, a publication affiliate of the John
Birch Society, and author of the book Vanguard of the
Americanist Cause. Good evening, Gary, and season's greetings, Merry Christmas

(22:20):
and all that good stuff.

Speaker 10 (22:22):
How are you wonderful? Merry Christmas, Gary, and yes, seasoned
screens to you as well.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
So I had another guest from the John Birch Society
on a couple of weeks back and explain to people
what the John Birch Society is and does and how
the New American is affiliated with that, if you could,
and just to kind of a nutshell, just what is
the John Birch Society.

Speaker 10 (22:51):
Well, this logan of the John Birch Society is less government,
more responsibility, and with God's health at better world. So
that tells that tells people what we're all about. But
in order to bring about less government and more responsibility,
we have to recognize the fact that there also is
a kabbal there's a conspiracy, there's a deep state, whatever
you want to call it, that is working for more

(23:12):
government leading to total government, and more internationalism leading to
world government. And so our most immediate task, most pressing task,
is to expose that conspiracy and to create awareness on
a part of the American people so that when they
go into voting booths across the country, they will not
be beguiled and they will vote for better government and.

Speaker 6 (23:37):
Go ahead, no no, I'm sorry you were on a roll.
Go ahead, please finish and.

Speaker 10 (23:41):
Then okay, well I want to say is one example
what happened in Nazi Germany actually prior to it becoming
Nazi Germany, because the German people were beguiled, they actually
voted the Hitler into power by voting for National Socialists,
and of course Nazi is hand for National Socialists, voting

(24:02):
them into the German Parliament and to such numbers that
they made Hitler Chancellor, and of course the rest is history.
So people can be beguile, people are beguiled. And Robert Welch,
the founder of the John Birch Society and the organization
was founded in nineteen fifty eight, he believed that to
prevent that from happening in the United States of America,

(24:24):
that we need to better inform the people. And of
course things that we were saying back then people kind
of scoffed at because at the time the country was
very very anti communist, presumably very anti socialists as well.
But Robert Welch warned that because of this conspiracy for
global control that was not just a communist conspiracy, also
a conspiracy above communism, that without getting involved, that we

(24:49):
would have more government and more government leading to total
government and leading to world government as well. And specifically,
in the Blue Book of the John Birch Society, which
is actually the transcript of the founding meeting back in
nineteen fifty eight, Welch warned about the United Nations, for example,
and how that was a world government trap and it
was intended to become a socialist world government. And back

(25:12):
then people's coughed and laughed, because, after all, it's not
supposed to be mankind's last best hope for peace. But
of course today Gary, no one's laughing. The cats out
of the bag, and we see this conspiracy, we see
what they're doing, and it's right before our eyes.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Well, I mean, Senator McCarthy was correct, there was a
communist insurgency in our media and in government. And yet
he was, you know, basically ran out of Washington, d c.
And his hearings were abruptly stopped, and he was villainized

(25:47):
and demonized by suggesting that there were powers from the
outside and from the inside that we're working against American,
the American Republican, the American eye deals. Do you believe
that Senator McCarthy was actually onto something back in the
early fifties.

Speaker 10 (26:05):
Yes, yes, absolutely, I believe you are correct. And Jarry,
you put that so well on what you just said.
I don't know if I could say any better, Probably
not as well as you did.

Speaker 5 (26:16):
Well, you know, every once in a while.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
Probably more once in a while.

Speaker 5 (26:22):
So you're talking about the John Birch.

Speaker 10 (26:24):
Society, I agree completely.

Speaker 5 (26:26):
Pardon you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
The John Birch Society and its formation in nineteen fifty
eight Dwight Eisenhower was president. You're right, there was a
very anti communist sentiment in the country overall, and you
know which which of course enveloped into a Cold War
within the great communist power of the day, the Soviet Union,

(26:51):
but they were the overt Communist party, and people like
McCarthy and people like mister Welch were talking about the
they were overt that they were talking about the covert forces,
which are still very much at work today.

Speaker 5 (27:08):
You talk about the German people.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Being beguiled and being convinced by the National Socialist and
Hitler himself to put him in charge, and he was
after global domination. There's no question about that. There are
people on the left. I believe the people that you're

(27:30):
talking about, the globalist who tend to insist that someone
like President Trump is trying to beguile the people into
you know, ultimate power and authority. How do you answer
those people who are calling Trump Hitler?

Speaker 10 (27:48):
For example, well, what'd you do if you look at
the actions and there are some things that Trump is
doing that I would disagree with. There are something she's
doing would agree with. Things that would agree with, let's
focus on that for a moment. Would include his opposition
to the so called green agenda, to so called man

(28:11):
made climate change. It is very clear when you look
at the record, and there's all kinds of documentation that
the people really behind that agenda, behind the agenda of
climate change, it really is not about the climate. It's
not about a concern of the environment. It's about using
climate change is a pretext to bring about global government,

(28:34):
to bring about a big green regime. And Trump is
very very opposed to that. So that is a really
good thing. And then he also has spoken in opposition
to the United Nations. That's also a good thing.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Right.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
I would also suggest that him seizing the NonStop unovated
invasion of our country and our borders was probably a
thing too, because I'm sure the globalist would love for
the American culture to be eroded to the point where

(29:09):
it simply didn't matter anymore to the average American. And
the way you do that is by replacing the population right.

Speaker 10 (29:18):
Yes, where you're putting that extremely well, and I agree.
And the only thing I would add is I believe
and the John Bird Society does believe that this is
not happenstance, that this is by design. It's part of
a program to try to change the constituency of the
American Republic, to make it a constituency that's less informed,

(29:39):
to make it a constituency that is less loyal to America,
to make it a constituency that is more dependent on
a social welfare state, all for the purpose of doing
what happened in Nazi Germany, to go back to an
earlier question, to try to beguile the people into surrendering
their freedoms. And that is what happens. When you are
promised healthcare, you are promised pre education, you are promised

(30:04):
all these three things. But as it turns out, in
order to provide those so called three things, you have
to chat tax the people one way.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Or the other.

Speaker 10 (30:13):
You have to take the money out of the economy
to begin with in order to pay for these programs
because the government is non productive. And then the government
in order to distribute the wealth, to take from the
rich to give to the poor, or however you want
to describe it. That becomes a huge mechanism, and then
we find out what socialism is really all about. It's

(30:34):
not really about a share the wealth program. It's about
a control the wealth program.

Speaker 5 (30:41):
Excellent point. Excellent point.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
You are the editor of The New American, and yes,
as I mentioned that that's a publication affiliate of the
John Birch Society. Tell me a little bit about your
editorial goals and it goes to informing the public. But
how many people even know about the New American?

Speaker 10 (31:06):
Well, I think a lot do through social media. And
the major media is not helping. They treat the John
Birch Society as if it's an artifact of the past,
as if you know, it doesn't exist today, But it
very much does. But the media at least gives us
credit for being a precursor to Mega and a precursor
to the great awakening that we have today. But the

(31:28):
John Birch Society is alive and well, and the John
Birch Society its purpose is to wake the town and
tell the people and get them involved, and we do
that through organization. We recognize that in order to save
our freedoms, we cannot do it through what, let's say,
a malhouse. We cannot do it by electing a particular politician.
If we are going to save our freedoms, we have

(31:50):
to do it ourselves. And so we are organized in
living rooms and meeting halls, but not organizations. We call
chapters all through the country and they're working to create
this great awakening so that the people will be informed.
And the more informed we are, the less likely we
can be be guiled by these conspirators for world control. Now,

(32:12):
the way the New American magazine fits in, and the
way our editorial policy fits in, is you can look
at the New American as being a tool that is
used by members in order to inform the American people
as well as other people. Because we're now making The
American the New American Magazine available to others as well,
and different languages. We're just starting to embark on that,

(32:34):
starting with French and also Spanish.

Speaker 5 (32:38):
Very good.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
The globalists that you talk about, they're all involved with
the with the World Bank, the World Economic Forum.

Speaker 5 (32:45):
You mentioned the UN.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
And I have thought for years that the first thing
that we must do if we want to save our
country is get the UN completely out of our country,
and that means not just the build building, but the
influence and the adherence to United Nations decrees, you know,

(33:08):
international law and all of this. How do we do that?
How do we root it out?

Speaker 10 (33:15):
Well, we do it through education, and the John Birch
Society has been doing that from the beginning, and back
in the nineteen sixties, for example, a lot of people
still remember all the billboards that we had across the
country to get out to get us out. That was
the slogan, get us out of the United Nations. And
of course, Gary, I'm sure there are critics today who

(33:38):
had said, well, gee, the John Birch Society has not
been effective, because over all these years we're still in
the United Nations. But I would say that those people
are terribly wrong in saying that, because I firmly believe
and I've been a remember the John Burgucie since nineteen
sixty eight and on the staff since nineteen seventy seven.
I firmly believe that if it were not for Robert Welsch,

(33:59):
the founder of John Birch Society, if we're not for
the organization that he created, and they used the word
created in the full sense of the word, if we
were not for the tens of thousands of wonderful members
he got to join our epic undertaking, I believe the
battle would be over. I believe we would be living
in slavery today and under a communistic world government that

(34:21):
the United Nations was intended to what to become. But
because of the John Birch Society and because of everything
that we've done, we still have the opportunity. We still
have our freedoms, largely in tech where we can use
those freedoms to save our freedoms. And regarding the in
that Nations specifically, if you think back to the nineteen sixties,
where it was portrayed is mankind's last best hope for

(34:44):
peace peace, and people would scoff at our agenda to
get out of the United Nations. That's not happening today.
I think today most Americans realized that the United Nations
is a bad thing, not a good thing. And so
the opportunity to get out, I think is greater than ever.
And Congress is the key. Congress can pass legislation to
get us out. In fact, there is legislation right now

(35:06):
in both houses of Congress to get us out of
the nations. But one thing that would give us give
that impetus, of course, would be a President Trump would
come out and say, let's get out of the that nations.
And so far you has not done that.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Well, he's coming pretty close on a couple of occasions. Anyway,
tell me about real quickly, your book, The Vanguard of
the Americanist Cause.

Speaker 10 (35:31):
Okay, the book came out last year. Again it's called
Vanguard the Americans Cause. It's available at the JDS dot org.
People want to go there and just search for the book.
And it is a close look at the John Birch Society,
as the subtitle says, and it's really written for people
not that familiar with the John Birch Society. It's written

(35:53):
for people who want to find out what we're all about.
And it's also for new members who may want to
find out more so in the book, and it's a
very short book, about one hundred and thirty pages. But
it explains what the John Bird Society is for, what
we are against, and how we are organized, and what
we're doing in order to save our country and to

(36:17):
make it greater than ever before.

Speaker 5 (36:19):
In other words, it's an expansion of our conversation tonight.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
Yeah, exact, all right.

Speaker 5 (36:25):
Gary Vanoid is his name.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
He is the editor in chief of The New American,
a publication affiliate of the John Birch Society, and author
of Vanguard of the Americans. Cause we just talked about,
thank you so much for your time in a very
merry Christmas.

Speaker 10 (36:38):
Gary, Merry Christmas to you, and thank you Gary.

Speaker 5 (36:41):
You bet more of the nightcap in just a moment.

Speaker 11 (36:44):
There you are listening to the Eddie and Rocky Show,
when all of a sudden, two co workers start slugging
it out over the last bag of funions in the
snack machine, forcing you to miss part of our show.
Eddie here with a solution. Listen to the podcast of
the Eddie and Rocky Show on the iHeartRadio app date
hear what you missed, and have the snat guy put

(37:05):
some more damn funions on that machine.

Speaker 12 (37:07):
I'm Stephen Curry and this is gentleman's cut. I think
what makes a gentleman's cut different is me being a part.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Did once again in the studio by my friend Matt Morning,
a former Cincinnati undercover cop, who says, there's a whole
lot more to the Oklahoma City bombing, remember that over
thirty years ago. Then most of the American public knows
or has been allowed to know. And he crosses some
of the t's and dots some of the eyes or

(37:36):
is just talking nonsense. We'll let you listen and let
you decide in just a few minutes. Thanks, thanks for
visiting here on the nightcap on seven hundred WLW seven
hundred WLW Adjoining us for another bite at the Apple
is my friend Matt Morning, who has been with us before.

(37:56):
He is a former Cincinnati police officer. He's also these
days a collector of rare and collectible items, and we're
going to talk I guess a little bit about both tonight.
But first and foremost, Matt, good evening. Merry Christmas, ayo Gary,
Merry Christmas.

Speaker 6 (38:12):
Yep uh.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Do you want to do you want to get into
any of what has happened in the past and what's
going on now.

Speaker 13 (38:22):
Dam I'm an open book about everything.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
So so yeah, so originally you were you came in
and talked to me about the Oklahoma City bombing and
a lot of things that I didn't know and that
the general public doesn't know. And you were interviewed by
who was it, Katie Kirk and who else?

Speaker 5 (38:44):
Back in the day when was this back.

Speaker 13 (38:46):
In twenty twenty two, Bob Sands with NBC and Katie Kirk.

Speaker 5 (38:49):
They were putting together.

Speaker 13 (38:50):
A documentary has just showed on HBO last year for
the thirtieth anniversary, you know, and they wanted to talk
to me about it. But I explained to him, I said,
I was more than willing to talk to him, but
I didn't believe that what we were going to talk
about was actually going to make the cut and put
it and be put on the air. They swore to
me up and down that it would, and the short

(39:11):
and simple of it is they supposedly did it. I
didn't bother talking to him, and all of it ended
up on the cutting room floor, just like I.

Speaker 6 (39:18):
Told him I was going too. Now, what did you
divulge in these interviews with Katie Couric and Bob Sands, Well, I.

Speaker 13 (39:25):
Never I only talked to Bob. I said over the
phone a couple of times, would I explained to him?
I said, I said, what you're trying to say the story?
You're trying to tell my story? What I told you,
I said, we'll never be told. I said, it's always
going to end up on the cutting room floor. And
I said, you're going to find it out the hard
way when you go to do this for this thing
for HBL. And that's exactly what happened. I said, the

(39:47):
short and simple of it is, for thirty years after
telling the American public that it's Tim McVay and Terry
Nichols that did this, and I said, it's a completely
false narrative. I said, there there's a bare minimum three
other people that are involved in it, probably upwards of
another five or.

Speaker 6 (40:03):
Six, and many of them were FBI or well, the.

Speaker 13 (40:07):
Three I know about were actually FBI and CIA and
Secret Service informants. Huh, So you have informantsis working for
the Alphabet soup blew up the Oklahoma City bombing right
underneath their nose, you know, probably with money they're being
paid for informant on other people.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
So talking about the MURA of Federal Building in Oklahoma
City in nineteen ninety four. Yeah, that Timothy mcveil was
McVeigh was convicted for Terry Nichols went to jail and
is in jail.

Speaker 5 (40:35):
Four.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Of course, Timothy McVeigh is no longer with us. They boy,
they executed him fast.

Speaker 5 (40:41):
Yeah, that was it.

Speaker 13 (40:41):
I mean, like I said, it was a record time
for an execution. And I said, they had the perfect patsy.
I said, you had a guy that was more than
willing to go down for it, you know, for whatever
fame and infamy he thought he'd get out of life.

Speaker 6 (40:51):
I said, you know, he was just soured on life.

Speaker 13 (40:53):
I said, I mean that's a guy that you know,
you know, you want to say that you take people
off death row for having mental disease and stuff. I said,
he'd been a perfect example for it, you know. I said,
you can't just rush into execution and do it as
normally when anyone, it doesn't matter state or federal, gets convicted.
I said, you're talking at a bare minimum another fifteen
to twenty years sitting in jail, with all the appeals
and everything else going on.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
So if this is all true, and I have no
reason to doubt you, you have a lot of behind
the scenes knowledge of these people, and.

Speaker 5 (41:26):
Well, why are they still trying to cover it up.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
It's just like we're finding more and more that these
so called conspiracy theories, like the twenty twenty election fraud.
We were called conspiracy theorists for saying that that it
was a fraudulent election, and we found out, no, our
conspiracy theory is actually the truth. And we're finding out
more and more that our conspiracy theories are conspiracies. They're

(41:52):
not figments of our imagination. There's actually what happened, but
they were covered up, and they were and this was
another one of those Oklahoma City you say.

Speaker 13 (42:01):
Yeah, precisely. I mean to me, I was, you know,
one of the beginnings of it. I said, I've been
called a conspiracy theorist. I've been called everything that you
can think of. I said, over you know, when I
tell people what actually happened and why I lost my job,
you know, I didn't lose my job what the city
of Cincinnati says. You know, you know, he he did this,
he you know, he looked stuff up. He wasn't supposed to,
you know, computer theft, whatever the hell they wanted to say.

(42:22):
It was I said, and that was just the beginning
of things. I said, you know, you look at it now,
I said, and when I tell people, I said, the
best example of it is is, I said, UFOs. You
said anything about a UFO before twenty seventeen, you were
a knut bag, you know.

Speaker 5 (42:37):
I mean it's you.

Speaker 13 (42:38):
If you were in the service and you said something
about it, you'd be out of the service in a
matter of a year or so.

Speaker 5 (42:43):
I mean you'd be instructed.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yeah, you give full reports on Yeah, you had seen
and what you would experience.

Speaker 13 (42:49):
Yeah, you want to let to talk about Then all
of a sudden, in twenty seventeen, you know, Trump comes
up with Space Force and nobody added an eye even
asked about what it is. But I said, in twenty seventeen,
you know, it was simultaneously around the world, I said, Japan, Russia,
United States, Canada, Ireland, Britain, everybody released their files on
the UFOs and admitted, okay, yeah, there are UFOs overnight.

(43:13):
I mean, this is just like, all of a sudden,
within a month, I said, all of a sudden, you
went from being a nutbag to okay, yeah they're there
and they exist, and we've been investigating for a long time.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Right, But they don't tell us what they are now
they're just nun explained aerial phenomena.

Speaker 5 (43:29):
Yeah, the UFOs are UAPs, as they do.

Speaker 13 (43:31):
Yeah, we relabeled them. Yeah, we don't call them UFOs
now they're UAPs.

Speaker 6 (43:34):
So take me back to Oklahoma City real quickly. What
you know about that?

Speaker 1 (43:40):
But can you can you kind of like compress that
into a little tidy package for us here on Christmas
Eve eve of what you believe went on and what
you know.

Speaker 13 (43:50):
But what I know is that there were three other
people here in Cincinnati that I was investigating. I said,
one was a guy named Sean Kenny. He was and
he was ed Woods, who were for the FBI. He's
an FBI agent. Sean Kenny was ed Woods Prime CI,
you know, his confidential informant. And what he was using

(44:10):
him for was he was using him to go around
the country, you know, get into the airing nation compounds,
get into different militia groups and everything, collect his evidence
and then go ahead and shut it down. And you know,
he was primarily responsible for shutting down Hayden Lake up
in Idaho. And he also when he also had but
Kenny Shawn Kenny had two friends and you know they

(44:33):
went by the names of uh, Pete Langen.

Speaker 5 (44:38):
And Richard Lee Guthrie.

Speaker 13 (44:40):
Okay, Now, at the time I'm investigating Sean Kenny, his
wife tells me, you know, she she wanted to make
a domestic violence report and she wanted to get him
out of the life. She wanted to separate her husband
Sean from Guthrie and Langon. And when when I when
I first initially took the report in August of ninety three,
She's telling me all this, and.

Speaker 6 (45:01):
You're working as a Cincinnati policeman.

Speaker 13 (45:03):
I'm working as a Cincinnati policeman trying to take a
domestic violence report over and over on Montana Avenue near Cheviot.
And she starts telling me about her husband, what he's
involved in, and the two people that he's with. And
she gave me the names and you know they were
going by and explained it and I said it sounded
like Pete, Langan and Guthrie. So I asked her, I said, well,
can you pull them out of out of a lineup

(45:25):
if I give you some lineups? So I had some
lineups made, you know, one headline, Yeah, yeah, six. They
call them six packs, you know, and I had one
made with Langan in it. I had one made with
Guthrie in it. I mean she picked them both out.
I mean within the split second of showing them to her.
So I mean obviously she knew these people. And she
said that Pete and Guthrie were teaching her husband how

(45:47):
to rob banks, how to make fake ID cards, how
to use this machine that they had, because UPC codes
were just coming into their own in the early nineties.
They had a machine where they would change the UPC codes,
so they would go buy an item for twenty bucks
and they go return it for you know, for two
hundred bucks. And that was their way of making money
to get by doing yeah, you know. But what surprised

(46:10):
me about it was, I said, this is August and
ninety three. We had locked Langan up in November of
ninety two, and he was going to be in there
for a long time. And she's telling us, said, I
asked her. I said, well, when's the last time. She
mentioned just last week. I said, well, that's impossible, I said,
because Langan's locked up. I said, but I said, you

(46:30):
picked him out in a matter of seconds, I said,
so it just it just didn't wash with me, and
that's how everything started from there. Yeah, so I go,
I got go over to the Justice Center and I
asked him about it. Well, no, Langan's not there. Turns
out the FBI had come and got him and took
him out of jail and he's out on the run again.
And what I found out long down the road later

(46:50):
was it Langan was pulled out to get to Guthrie.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
You know.

Speaker 5 (46:54):
So the year goes by.

Speaker 13 (46:57):
And through that whole thing, you know, the FBI just
keeps longing to me about different things. Oh, you know,
they're they're still in prison there, you know, there is
they're this, They're that. I said, Okay, if they're still
in prison, I said, here's a here's a here's a
wanted poster from you guys from down in Georgia where
Langon's wanted for robbing this pizza hut. I said, So,
either he's locked up or he's not. He's out robbing
pizza joints, you know, or he's locked up. You know,

(47:19):
which is it? You know, they just keep lying to Yeah,
and that's and that's what that's just what kept pushing
me on. Everyone asked, why did you just wanted you
just let it go. And I was, just like when
you're young and you just got on the force. I said,
you know, you're trying to work your way up the
ranks and doing things. I said, I just don't like
being lied to, especially when it's supervisors that are lying
to you. I said, you know the FBI. You know

(47:39):
you looked at as well above your bosses with the
police division. And I said, when they're actively lying to
you and trying to point you in the wrong direction,
there's a reason for it, you know. And I said,
that's just what bugged me. I said, so that's the
reason I latched onto it like a bulldog, and I
would just never let it go.

Speaker 5 (47:55):
Well, I tell you what.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Let's let's break there and come back and talk about
how these three guys are connected to the Oklahoma City bombing. Okay,
Matt Mauning is our guest. Uh just kind of really
eye opening stuff. If you haven't heard it before, keep listening.
We've got more to tell.

Speaker 14 (48:14):
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He's smart and funny and genuine. He's one of a kind.

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When I listen to Willie, I feel better about things.

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Speaker 5 (48:29):
Willie cares about me and my family. All you have
to do is listen to me the great America. I
want to be a great American just like Willie.

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w l W.

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worring about.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
In studio here in this first half hour tonight is
Matt Mauning, a former Cincinnati undercover cop and my friend
and he's a collector and talking about, uh, the Oklahoma
City bombing here more than thirty years later after the fact,
we were all convinced and told that Timothy McVeigh and
Terry Nichols were the two that were involved, and that

(49:41):
was it. That was the official story. It's still their
official story. But Matt of course detailing three people with
FBI and CIA connections with a local tilt as he
was investigating back when he was a cop in nineteen
ninety three. And we're back to where we were. So

(50:02):
Robert Langan is his name, Pete Langon. Pete Langon is
robbing banks and the FBI says he's in prison at
the same time he's robbing banks somewhere else.

Speaker 5 (50:14):
So anyway, pick up the story from there, man.

Speaker 13 (50:18):
Yeah, So the short of it was, you know, they
you know, I found out that Langan and Guthrie were
doing this, but she kept telling me that they were
going around and they were robbing these banks, and she said,
you know, they kept getting away with it. And at
the time she was at her parents' house that lived
on Montana. They lived in a trailer down off of
one twenty eight down there behind where the.

Speaker 6 (50:35):
VP station was.

Speaker 5 (50:36):
They said, it's a place.

Speaker 13 (50:38):
It's stripped out now it's gone, so the trailer park
isn't there anymore, you know. But she tell me, and
I'd asked her, I said, well, can you call me?
You know, I gave him my phone number, and I said,
you know, can you can you call me and let
me know, you know, when they're in town, when they're
down there, or what they're doing, because she said they
would rob these banks and then they would go to
the trailer down there where she was at, and they'd

(50:59):
be sorting all them money, you know, and doing things,
you know, figuring out if they had die packs or
not ones that had gone off. And what had happened
was when they were sorting through all the money, all
the stuff that got that's staying with the red dye
and everything from the die packs is given to Sean
and they told him, you know, you need to get
rid of this, go burn it, do whatever you need
to do once we're gone, and that idiot started spending it.

(51:22):
So he was spending it down at the same area
where he's he's living at down there and in Miami Town.
So he's buying gas with it at the gas station.
He's going to Angelo's Pizza down the street. He's ordering
his food and everything from there, and he's paying with
all of it from this money. But it's all dice stained,
you know, from these robberies. You So, I'm going back

(51:42):
and forth to the FBI asked him about this, and
they just keep lying to me, saying that this stuff
never happened. You know, this is no good that the
money I had that wasn't die stained money, that's you know,
someone spilled pain on it or something like that, just
trying to tell you everything that it's not, you know. So,
I mean, this just kept going on and on, and
then you know what I find out later is the

(52:03):
three of them together formed what they call the Aryan
Republican Army, and they were going around in robbin these banks,
and then this money was being funneled into Oklahoma.

Speaker 6 (52:12):
City, is what it was.

Speaker 5 (52:14):
What the BI beliefs happened, you know.

Speaker 13 (52:16):
But at the same time, these guys are informants for
the whole alphabet suit I said, Langan was actually working
with the CIA. I said his entire family of ci A,
his dad was ci A. In fact, his dad isn't
one that was credited with killing President DM during the
Vietnam War, so he's CIA. His son, Pete, you know,

(52:40):
was never in the CIA. I think he just worked
for him as like an informant because he was just
too unstable. But his sister was also in the CIA.
And what the FBI guy kept telling me through this
whole thing was that they yeah, yeah, well well and
and when I'm when I went, they asked, uh, the
FBI guy about it, woulds you know, he's just telling

(53:01):
me that that I'm totally totally off my rocker about it.
You know that I don't have no idea what I'm
talking about. Yet it's a common knowledge of I mean,
who these guys were, especially after ninety five, after the
bombing happened. And then I found out later through all
these different investigations, who the guys actually were and what
they were doing. And it turns out that the reason
they were always one step ahead. That's what the FBI guy,

(53:23):
Eddie Woods kept telling me. These guys are always one
step ahead. We're always just missing them this and this,
and what's because they're working for you?

Speaker 4 (53:29):
You know.

Speaker 13 (53:30):
For one, I said, that's why you keep missing them,
I said, but the second thing is the reason you
keep missing them. And I said, what would happen was
they get Langing out of prison and then with the
goal of going to get Guthrie. So what happened is
they'd get him out of prison. He basically you know,
flip his fingers at him, sayonara and boom on his
way and never would contact him or doing it, and
then he go hook up with Guthrie and go do

(53:50):
what they were doing the best, robbing these banks.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
You know.

Speaker 13 (53:53):
So they were robbing these banks the whole time. And
the reason they were one step ahead, I found out
later was because Langan's sister worked for the CIA and
they had satellite phones. Now, satellite phones in ninety three
was the common man here was just you know, it's
like watching Star Trek. Sure, you know, so these guys

(54:14):
had satellite phones. But it wasn't just they had the
satellite phones. They had Defense Department codes that you had
to use in order to have these phones work exactly.
And so Lang's sister was the one supplying them with
these codes. You know that they were using to communicate
with each other back and forth, and that's why they
always supposedly one step ahead of you know, the FEDS

(54:34):
and what they were doing.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
Okay, so the money is being funneled that they're robbing
from these banks, being funneled to Oklahoma, I believe.

Speaker 13 (54:41):
Yeah, I believe it all got funneled into Oklahoma City
bombing somehow, you know, either paid for the fertilizer, paid
for the rental trucks. Basically the money got funneled into that.
They're saying that through twenty they say twenty three robberies.
They believe there was twenty seven robberies is what I
was told. An an armored car truck that was done,
and they said that the whole total was only about
two hundred and fifty thousand, is what they the FBI,

(55:03):
and that comps out to in their official paperwork.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
So, I mean Timothy McVeigh does play a role in this. Yeah,
there's been a roll of actually setting or delivering the bombs.

Speaker 13 (55:13):
Well, well, they are actually rumors that he was actually
up here robbing the banks, that he actually was it
took part in the Springdale robbery in ninety four.

Speaker 6 (55:20):
I believe it.

Speaker 13 (55:21):
Was, you know, but that no one can ever prove
it or say that he was or say that he
wasn't you know the only person that could would be
you know, you know one of these Sean, Kenny Langon
or Guthrie. You know, Langan's in prison. He got locked
up and I said they were given the golden key
on him because when he got arrested, they when he
did the strip serch he he had pink toenails. So

(55:42):
they found out that in ninety five, well actually in
yeah one they got when they got Langen, I believe
in ninety six, in January ninety six they finally locked
him up for good. And that's when all the Oklahoma
City stuff came into play, and you had the two
investigations they call Okay bomb rob which was the Oklahoma
City bombing, and then you had bomb rob which was

(56:04):
you know these uh, these all these different robberies that
Langing and Guthrie in the Arian Nation where Aryan Republican
Army was supposedly doing, you know, but when they got
him and when they stripped him down, he had pink toenails,
and they found out that he was while he was
doing all this being on the far right militia move
and everything on the other side, he was you know
dressing up as a woman and going to all these
different gay bars and everything. So they he found out,

(56:26):
he comes out when they finally arrest him and says, oh,
he's gonna transsexual this and is blah blah blah. That
was all you had to say anything that came out
of his mouth. Now, I said, they had the golden
ticket to say that the guy's got mental issues and
he's a nut bag, you know.

Speaker 4 (56:41):
Now.

Speaker 13 (56:41):
Guthrie, on the other hand, em were and this is
this was this is what gets me because this is
just history repeating itself, I said Guthrie. At the time
when they were talking to him, they find when they
were saying that, you know, we're gonna basically they went
back and forth a few times and then at the
end they finally said, we're gonna fry you because they
found out he was talking to porter in la and
he was exposing everything that he was doing and everything

(57:03):
he had been doing for the government for the last
twenty thirty years. When they found out about that, all
of a sudden, I'm going over to interview the guy.
Get over there, and I find out he hung himself last.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Night in this jail cell.

Speaker 13 (57:14):
How convenient, How convenient, I said, But what gets me is,
I said, you're talking over the last thirty years, everybody
that had something to do that was going to expose
or do something miraculously hung themselves in jail. I said,
this is a thirty year problem. How can you not
fix this in thirty years? You know that you're allowing
people to hang themselves supposedly in their jail cells.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Well, you you lost your job for looking into things
that you were told not to look into exactly, and
that was a lot of this.

Speaker 5 (57:43):
Yeah, that was That was the kick of it.

Speaker 13 (57:45):
I said, when when I finally got fired, you talked
to the guys with the Cincinnati Police Division and they'll
tell you. You know, I don't know why you're coming after
us and talking all this stuff about you know what
we were doing, I said.

Speaker 5 (57:54):
He said it was the FEDS.

Speaker 13 (57:55):
You know, the FBI is the one that wanted you gone.
He said, they were the ones pressure and you know,
the upper people on the Police Division to get rid
of you because of this Oklahoma City.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
You feel like we're we're both in danger for talking
about this on the radio.

Speaker 13 (58:07):
Man, No, not anymore. I mean, because I said, they've
muddied the water so much. I mean they just chalk
it up as you know, two nutbags talking. They could
care less. Yeah, we might be two nutbags, but even
when you have the proof on stuff, I mean they
were Yeah, they talked the way around it.

Speaker 5 (58:21):
I said.

Speaker 13 (58:22):
There was a lady contacted me after Bob Sayings and
Katie Kirk. She wrote a book. It's called Blowback. Yeah,
it just came out last actually it just came out
this year, was released over the summer, and I mean
it's her name is Margaret Roberts. And I said, she's
associated with America's Most Wanted I believe, the TV show,
So she's got credentials.

Speaker 5 (58:43):
Yeah, and it took her years.

Speaker 13 (58:45):
I mean I think it took her almost sixty seven years,
you know, of investigating, doing all this stuff to put
this whole book together. But miraculously she didn't talk to
me until after the book was written.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (58:56):
So I've been talking to her since then, and she's
just like, you know, I should talk to you before
we wrote the book.

Speaker 5 (59:01):
Ye always do a reprint of the book.

Speaker 13 (59:04):
Ye, your information, you're always doing a denim or do
whatever I said, you know, like I said, when you're
promoting the thing on different you know, podcasts or however
things are done. Now, I said, you know, you can
bring it up and mention it. I said, I got
no problem talking about this stuff.

Speaker 5 (59:17):
But I said, the.

Speaker 13 (59:17):
Problem is they had someone that came forward and one
of their big things was it was a guy that
was an FBI informant and he was telling them exactly
what I'm saying now. So this this entire thing where
they were allowing these guys to rob these banks and
then you know, you know, supposedly following the money so
they could do these search warrants across the nation to
shut down the area nation and everything. Well that all

(59:38):
had a name too, for with the FEDS. It was
called someone called pat Con. And one of the informants
came forward from pat Con and explained to them exactly
what was going on and that's what they were going to.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Do, and fascinating stuff. Well, we'll have to pick it
back up at a later time. Listen, Merry Christmas. I
hope you have a good night to good weekend, and
thanks for joining us again. Matt Morning on the Nightcap
Wild Stuff on seven hundred WLW into another hour of

(01:00:09):
this Nightcap, and as we continue tonight, we just had
my friend Matt Mouning who says he's got some insights
on the Oklahoma City bombing and all of this thirty
plus years ago. Today we have a real life detective,
a Sluther, if you would say Luther the Sluthor. He

(01:00:31):
is a crime expert, has been a private investigator for years,
and he's an author, a US Army veteran who did
three tours in Korea and DMZ service and he is
the author of The Last law Man, The Stories of
a Private Detective.

Speaker 5 (01:00:48):
Please welcome, Nils Gravillis Gravillius.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Well to distract.

Speaker 9 (01:00:55):
Pleased to be addressing Cincinnati, and we're probably broadcasting south
of the River down into Covington, don't we.

Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
Oh, of course we are. We get all over it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
We get we get into Indiana too for that man,
and West Virginia. This time of night, we're all over
the middle of the country.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Neils, Well, that's fantastic.

Speaker 9 (01:01:15):
You know, I lived in Hate when I was a kid,
and that was the that was the mattress for the
Chicago Outfit. It was an amazing place.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Yeah, yeah, home of the famous pretzels as well. We
we wanted to talk to you about many different things
that when we got the news that you were available
to talk to us. As the story at the time
circulating was the just released news that FBI Deputy Director

(01:01:45):
Dan Bongino was stepping down uh in January after a
speculation had risen about his departure, and I wanted to
get your take on this. Dan Bongino, of course a
longtime law enforcement career and in the Secret Service, and
then all of his days on Fox Television. Do you

(01:02:05):
think he got on the inside, Nils and found out
that maybe doing his show was more fun.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
You know, that could very well be. I mean, when
you're running your own radio.

Speaker 9 (01:02:17):
Show and podcast, it's easy to get rid of people
who are problematic and dishonest. It's how did they do
in the government obviously, I mean, we've created all these
civil service.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Laws, and all these people he'd want to fire are
very well connected.

Speaker 9 (01:02:31):
But Gary, I'll tell you my greater concern is his health.
I think he battled canceled twice, really yes, and I pray.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
That it hasn't come back.

Speaker 9 (01:02:46):
It may be that he set a time limit on
his service to the FBI to get back to his
family and his show. That sort of thing I don't know.
I pray that he's okay, and that Paul is Okay's
he's a fantastic man who sacrificed a lot for this
country and protected citizens.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Whether they realized it or not.

Speaker 5 (01:03:09):
I didn't realize that Dan Bongino had been battling cancer neils.

Speaker 9 (01:03:13):
Right well, I mean, last I heard it was in remission.
But so when an announcement is made like this, it
causes me to wonder. I know, President Trump's very happy
with him. If President Trump was going to dismiss the man,
we'd know all about it. Donald Trump isn't shy when
he's displeased with somebody who's supposed to be doing a job.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
No, No, you know about You know about that. You
know about that immediately. You're correct about that. So you's
but but you believe that it may be health related
and certainly family related, that Dan is stepping down from
this position next month.

Speaker 9 (01:03:52):
It may be now, we don't have any indication of that,
and Dan likes to say, qut se time is over
when the FBI but with both feet he reassigned all
the agents who had been pretending to work on the.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
January sixth pipe bomber.

Speaker 9 (01:04:08):
And got that case sold, And he worked on a
bunch of narcotics trafficking and money laundering issues and child
exploitation cases, so he made a big impact. He also
dismissed more than a few people who had been dead
wood and problematic and DEI etc. At the bureau, So
I think he made a good impact. Let's let's wait

(01:04:30):
and see what Dan has to say about it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
Yeah, as a private investigator, how long do you think
you would have had to work on determining who the
January sixth pipe bomber was?

Speaker 5 (01:04:41):
If you had free rein.

Speaker 9 (01:04:42):
Nils, free reign and assets, I think could have solved
it as fast as the team. Bonchino put on that
the man Coleman who turned out to be the person
they arrested for it was an immediate suspect, and I
don't think the was terribly motivated to take it anywhere

(01:05:03):
after January of twenty one, just simply because the bombs
didn't blow up, and there may have been a hidden
political agenda. The press release stated that the bombs were viable,
meaning they could have been detonated. I don't know what
the standard for that is. I know a bit about
high explosives, low explosives, detonators, timing devices, things like that.

(01:05:27):
I learned a lot about demolitions working in various past
jobs of mine.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Yeah, so you know, let's see what the evidence says.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
I just had a friend of mine on who was
a former Cincinnati undercover police officer, and he says he
has and he described it, entailed it during our conversation.
A lot of evidence to say the FBI and the
CIA were heavily involved in what led up to the
Oklahoma City bombing. And he named some names and told

(01:06:01):
some stories. Do you think that there was more to
the Oklahoma City bombing than Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols?

Speaker 5 (01:06:07):
Just your opinion, Nils?

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
Does Howdy duty have a wooden fanny? How about this? Okay?

Speaker 9 (01:06:19):
They put out a sketch photo, a wanted photo or
wanted sketch of a man resembling McVeigh who was ultimately identified,
and a second man wearing a baseball cap, a dark
baseball cap, who was never arrested, never identified, and much

(01:06:40):
later the Bureau said, oh, well, there was no second suspect.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Somebody was mistaken.

Speaker 9 (01:06:44):
And apparently that man was with McVeigh when McVeagh went
to rent the rider truck. I have long wondered if
that person was not an FBI asset or an FBI
agent himself. Wealth asset meaning informant, sure, FBI agent meanings
for in law enforcement.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Yeah, this is what he This is what he claims,
and that the money provided to buy the explosives the
fertilizer was funneled directly from FBI and CIA informants that
were working, among other places, out of Cincinnati. So it'll
be interesting to se if it ever gets sold.

Speaker 9 (01:07:26):
Well, that's that's very interesting to me. I had some
correspondents prior to his death with a character named Gorvy Doll,
and Gorvy Doll had become pent pals with McVeigh when
McVeigh was scheduled for retirement at the Federal Penitentiary in
Terre Haute, and the Doll was concerned that the CIA

(01:07:52):
was involved or may have been involved, and that the
FBI wasn't being completely frank. Now when they pushed them
something over into a into a counter intelligence investigation, Gay,
that's when all bets are off. That means that they
have eleven different ways to classify it, to hide it,

(01:08:12):
to departmentalize it to justify disobedience to orders, like with
the Epstein case when Pam Bondi ordered Southern District of
New York to disgorge all of the Epstein evidence files, tapes, interviews, photos,
et cetera. Jim dennihe the Special Agent in charge of
the FBI Southern District of Manhattan, resigned and not from

(01:08:36):
the case, not from the office, but from the FBI. Now, Denny,
he was not a bank fraud investigator. He wasn't a
gang's investigator. He was not a child sex trafficking investigator.
He was a counterintelligence man from start to finish in
the bureau.

Speaker 5 (01:08:55):
Huh, very very interesting.

Speaker 9 (01:08:58):
I wanted to go ahead if you unpack McVeigh a
little bit further. There's long being speculation that there was
foreign involvement in the McVeigh Nichols combination that may have
been fake used to turn it into a counter intelligence
matter rather than domestic terrorism, domestic criminal that sort of thing.

Speaker 5 (01:09:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 15 (01:09:25):
Well, our friend Matt Morning was saying that these three
men from this area who were involved as FBI or
CIA informants were being allowed to rob banks and then
funnel money to these different militias around the country so
the FBI could track the money, and a lot of

(01:09:46):
that went into Oklahoma in Oklahoma City, and maybe the
FBI or the CIA or one of these other clandestine
organizations decided to cover their tracks because they were responsible
for the money actually reaching ground zero at the Murrah
Federal Building.

Speaker 9 (01:10:06):
It wouldn't be the first time that something like that
has occurred. Was what was the name of that operation
where I colder allowed stolen firearms to penetrate Mexico and
a Border patrol agent was killed with one of those firearms.
Things like that, and then yeah, tried to cover that up.
And then Baby Husseino's wingman was found in contempt of Congress,

(01:10:29):
and nobody ever bothered to prosecute the man, even though
Bannon and Navarro went to prison for contempt of Congress.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
Indeed, I digress, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Well now it's good. This is the show that you
were free to digress upon. That's what we have you
on for. Nils Gravillius is our guest private detective extraordinary
and he is of course the head of your own
detective agency, the Gravillius Detective Services, and author of the

(01:10:59):
Last Man If you will indulge uce Nils will take
a quick break and come right back for another segment.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
It's the night I'm standing by, all.

Speaker 6 (01:11:10):
Right, it's a nightcap on seven hundred WLW.

Speaker 7 (01:11:13):
Just wondering if you give someone wrapping paper as a gift,
how do they know when they've unwrapped it?

Speaker 5 (01:11:19):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:11:21):
A puzzling present problem from seven hundred WLW.

Speaker 12 (01:11:26):
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what makes Gentlemen's Cut different is me being a part of,
you know, developing the profile of this beautiful finished product.

Speaker 5 (01:11:37):
With every sip you get a.

Speaker 6 (01:11:38):
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Speaker 16 (01:11:40):
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This message is intended for audiences twenty one in order
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Speaker 6 (01:11:55):
Please enjoy responsibly.

Speaker 5 (01:11:56):
Running a business is hard enough. Don't make it harder
with dozens of apps that don't talk to each other.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
That's software okay with Nils Gravellis this Tuesday, Christmas Eve
Eve nightcap on seven hundred WLW, and Nils had a
message for everyone listening, specifically in Hamilton County.

Speaker 5 (01:12:17):
What was that message again.

Speaker 9 (01:12:18):
Nils, I want every man with any starch a hair
on his bum to get out and buy a pre
ordered copy of The Last law Man, My Truder life
memoir is a private detective running and gunning on the
streets of Los Angeles, all over the United States and internationally.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
It'll be delivered in June, just in time.

Speaker 9 (01:12:39):
To wreck your father's Father's Day. Don't hesitate, pull the trigger.
I'm standing by with more commentary for the Cincinnati area
right now.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
Nils, as we are detailed up front, served our country
proudly in Korea and the DMZ and first came to
light as an inventor instigator during the Wonderland Avenue murders
the cover up of those murders. More specifically, Nils remind
the listeners what the Wonderland murders were and how you

(01:13:11):
were involved.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
Well.

Speaker 9 (01:13:13):
The Wonderlan murders took place in nineteen eighty one. July
nineteen eighty one, I was actually.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
In Korea on the DMZ when they.

Speaker 9 (01:13:20):
Occurred, but many years later I worked to investigate how
they were covered up, and it was very simple.

Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
It was a drug ripoff.

Speaker 9 (01:13:28):
Organized by a very famous adult simmelstar named John Curtis
Holmes from Patascola, Ohio. Long John Holmes, Yes, yes, yes,
a notorious character.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
This man he set up.

Speaker 9 (01:13:42):
A drug rip off and when he didn't get his
fair share of the ripoff, he went to the mobster
who had been robbed and told him I know who
robbed you. And in order to make penance with this man,
he participated in the murders of the men who did
the robbery. And that's as simple as it was.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
Now.

Speaker 9 (01:14:03):
The reason that that mobster escaped prosecution for nineteen years
was because of his tentacles into Los Angeles City government.
He owned judges, he owned lawyers. He even had a
pet vice officer, a LAPD administrative vice who then wound

(01:14:24):
up in organized crime intelligence who would tip him off
as to search warrants, wiretaps, things like that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
And then an ATF agent on.

Speaker 9 (01:14:33):
The strikeforce also was corrupted and was protecting him in
his business partner.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
As an investigator. The Reiner family tragedy where Rob and
his wife Michelle were brutally murdered allegedly by his son Nick.
Is that pretty clear cut as far as the who
done it? And I guess the whys and other things

(01:14:59):
are in question.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Do you think about all of that, Well, it's a
sad case. If you're a father a mother and your
child is.

Speaker 9 (01:15:10):
Lost in the miasma of drug addiction, you're going to
do anything in your power to try to save them,
if you're any kind of a responsible parent.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
And Rob Ryner apparently.

Speaker 9 (01:15:20):
Listened to some experts who weren't terribly experts. Now, there
was a story out today in one of the papers
about how Nick Reiner was introduced to heroin by somebody
he met at some Utah outdoor Discovery rehabilitation program that
he went to at fifteen and prior there too. He

(01:15:43):
was not a heroin user, and once he was in
the grip of heroin, you know, to him, there was
no escaping it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
He was in and out of.

Speaker 9 (01:15:51):
Rehab seventeen times between age fifteen and age twenty two. Apparently,
now some are asking it was Nick Reiner psychotic. No,
Nick Reiner was not psychotic to the extent that he
is responsible for his actions. He knows right from wrong.

(01:16:12):
He can discern real from unreal. He is infuriated, and
he's probably a Walsh in shame, guilt, and remorse now
for what has occurred. He very plainly was overcome overwhelmed
by his anger at his father and his mother to

(01:16:33):
a lesser extent. According to what I'm hearing, and I'm
basing this on the number of cuts to each Rob
apparently sustained more than fifty knife wounds and a cutthroat.
And it's horrifying to consider that romy Nick's sister discovered

(01:16:54):
murdered parents at the house the next day, all of
these things. When after Nick did these things, he fled
to a hotel. He had been staying on the property
and fled to a hotel. Well, that's that's cognizance of
guilt to flee. So you know, it's I didn't agree

(01:17:15):
with Reiner's politics so much, but it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
A good thing.

Speaker 9 (01:17:22):
I bless his memory. It's horrifying to see a family
crime like that.

Speaker 6 (01:17:28):
Yeah, I don't know what else you can say. I'm
a supporter of President Trump, but I thought his comments were.

Speaker 5 (01:17:37):
Very cold at the at the.

Speaker 9 (01:17:40):
So considering that for decades he considered Donald Trump a
friend or pretended as if they were friends. In the
moment that Donald Trump comes out for the opposition, Rob
Reiner suddenly isn't.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
His friend anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:17:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:17:52):
It puts a lot of energy into attacking a man
from whom he steered political donation to Democrat candidates.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
Oh. Absolutely, it wasn't good of Rhiner.

Speaker 5 (01:18:05):
No, it wasn't good of Reiner.

Speaker 1 (01:18:06):
And I understand the president's reluctance to, you know, say
anything nice about Rob Reiner. At that point, I wanted
to ask you to about the Brown University case, and.

Speaker 9 (01:18:20):
You met us Valente. What an interesting character. I'm glad
that you asked me, Gerry.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
Talk about a tangled web and what they will find
out as they entangle it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
What do you think, Well, I think it's kind of odd.

Speaker 9 (01:18:34):
We have a scientific you know, a STEM graduate student
admitted to this country twenty five years ago to go
to Brown, who drops out and then is allowed to
linger around the United States for a while and then
go back to Portugal for a while, and then come
back and go back, and then ultimately he's given permanent

(01:18:55):
legal residency in the United States and keeps an apartment
in Miami that he's never at. Nobody knows who he is,
Nobody ever saw him at the apartment in Miami for
years he was supposed to.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
Be living there. That's where his mail was picked up.
May I tell you what I think, please.

Speaker 9 (01:19:14):
I think he was a used up human intelligence source,
maybe filtered by USAID or the State Department, but ultimately
an informant to the CIA.

Speaker 5 (01:19:29):
It wouldn't surprise me because.

Speaker 9 (01:19:32):
I don't believe that any of those agencies are involved
in the murders. I don't think that there was anything
to that. This was purely his rage, his fury, that
sort of thing. He was a difficult man to get
along with, that sort of thing, But he had no
apparent means of support in this nation. And he fits
the stem profile of the sort of man that human

(01:19:55):
intelligence likes to recruit from a foreign country to to identify,
to spot talent in other people from his country or
another country.

Speaker 3 (01:20:07):
And in the John Brennan era of the CIA, a lot.

Speaker 9 (01:20:10):
Of them are Marxists left this that sort of thing,
and I think the CIA has fallen much farther, much
harder than anybody realizes into this.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Well, the CIA has been in question in my mind
going back as far as me being two or three
years old in the Kennedy assassination.

Speaker 5 (01:20:30):
But that's me.

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
Right. Well.

Speaker 9 (01:20:33):
I have a pet theory of that the CIA employed
a counterintelligence man who was legend named James Jesus Angleton,
and Angleton was a very capable man, did his best
to protect this country, but sometimes he took unnecessary risks.
And I'll tell you what I think the unnecessary risk was.

(01:20:56):
Oswald was clearly under observation and in surveillance when he
met with the Soviet in Cuban embassies in Mexico City
and when he attempted to assassinate Governor Walker or General
Walker before he assassinated President Kennedy. And I think that

(01:21:18):
CIA gave Oswald a long leash to go on, hoping
that they could identify more people, either foreign nationals or
US persons involved in the fair Play for Cuban Committee,
Soviet intelligence things like that, and that he was just
merely under surveillance rather than anybody warning the Dallas police

(01:21:43):
that he had already attempted to assassinate a retired U. S.
Army general with the same rifle.

Speaker 3 (01:21:50):
A lot of people forget that after Oswald left the
book depository on foot. Somebody told Dallas Police Department to
be on the lookout for Oswald Oswalt specifically by name
and description, right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
And the officer who tried to.

Speaker 9 (01:22:09):
Detain Oswald was killed by Oswald with another gun of
Oswald's at two inch thirty eight special Smith and Wesson.

Speaker 5 (01:22:18):
You are buying.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
I gotta tell you, Nils, you are my favorite guests
so far in twenty twenty five and twenty twenty five
almost over, so you'll wind up number one, I think
for the entire year. The book is the Last Lawman,
True Destinctives, True stories of a private detective Brather. You
can pre order it now. And what a wonderful early
Christmas present they gave me with you.

Speaker 5 (01:22:41):
Thank you. What we're out of time.

Speaker 2 (01:22:42):
Thank you.

Speaker 9 (01:22:43):
Merry Christmas to all of Ohio and Kentucky and Appleasia.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
And look forward to talking to you all again.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
All right, thank you. We look forward to it as well.
It's the nightcap. We're running late seven hundred wlw Eve
and Gary Jeff or Gary Jeff, whatever you want to
call me.

Speaker 5 (01:23:02):
It's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
I'm in the Christmas spirit, and I'm in a good
mood and I'm in a good mood, partially because of
our next guest. He is a New York Times best
selling author of Flags of Our Fathers. I could stop
right there and that would be enough, but also Flyboys,
The Imperial Cruise, The China Mirage, and now Precious Freedom,

(01:23:26):
a novel it's about the war in Vietnam. Please welcome
James Bradley into the fold. Mister Bradley, A pleasure and
an honor to have you.

Speaker 17 (01:23:37):
How are you, sir, good, I'm great, Gary, Thank you
for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:23:42):
No, thanks for being had as i'd like to say.
You actually lived in Vietnam for a decade to research
and write this book, Precious Freedom, a novel of the
Vietnam War. You are the son of the family Ewajima, Corman,
Doc Bradley, and obviously the roots of Flags of Our Fathers.

(01:24:05):
I'd like to talk a little bit about about all
of these books, if you don't mind, and I hope
that's not a problem for you, but whatever you want
to get into. I think that we were kind of
talking about Iran at the top of the pitch anyway,
of how the Islamic Republic is on the on the

(01:24:27):
ropes and on the Wayne and Mike Pompeo says it's
time for President Trump the Iranians to finish the job.
Wouldn't it be better if the Iranians just went ahead
and toppled the Iatolas James rather than us having any
more to do with ending that reign of the Islamic

(01:24:49):
Republic in Iran? Because there are there are a lot
of powerful forces now inside and outside of that country
of people who are Iranian. I mean, there's a whole
other government that is in absentia. I've talked to some
members of that group. But wouldn't it be better for

(01:25:10):
the Iranians to do this than for us to get
involved more fully than we already are.

Speaker 17 (01:25:18):
I think it's a good idea, but it hasn't worked.
The American military hasn't had a victory in eighty years.

Speaker 2 (01:25:25):
Yeah, you know this is not working.

Speaker 17 (01:25:28):
It was Vietnam, you know, Vietnam was on the ropes, Vietnam,
North Vietnam, Ho Chi Minh. The people were going to revolt.
And then I went to Vietnam and he was there,
George Washington, he was their hope. I went into veterans'
homes and they had altars with incense to ho Chi Minh.

(01:25:50):
I'd go to the living room, ho Chi Minh, go
in the dining room, ho Chi min Go in the bathroom,
ho Chi Minh.

Speaker 4 (01:25:56):
And then I went into.

Speaker 17 (01:25:57):
American veterans in America, and I never saw a picture
of LBJ and Wes Moreland, General Westmoreland, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:26:08):
But they were fighting.

Speaker 17 (01:26:10):
The name of the book is precious freedom, yes, and
that's what Ho Chi Minh defined.

Speaker 4 (01:26:17):
It that way.

Speaker 17 (01:26:18):
I mean more than talking about the name of my book,
I'm talking about I went into Holmes for ten years
and said, oh my god, why did you fight the Americans?
You know, killed your father and mother and burnt your
house down and imprisoned people. And they all said to me,
ho Chi Minh told us, there's nothing more precious than freedom.

(01:26:41):
So I have lived in Iran, and what I understand
is the recent bombing it has consolidated support for the regime.

Speaker 4 (01:26:51):
I mean, it's the old story.

Speaker 17 (01:26:53):
The husband and wife are fighting, they hate each other,
they're at each other's throat, and the cop comes to
the door, and then the husband and wife attacked a cop.

Speaker 4 (01:27:04):
You know, it's my house Vietnam.

Speaker 17 (01:27:10):
In the Vietnam situation, we were told there was a
North and a South. And I went to Vietnam and
an old man said to me, mister Bradley, you Americans
had such big imaginations.

Speaker 4 (01:27:24):
And I said, what what do you mean?

Speaker 17 (01:27:26):
And he said, well, the French came and told me
I was an Indo Chinese, and mister Bradley, I was
not Indo Chinese. I was a Vietnamese. And then the Americans.
Walter Cronkite in the New York Times said that my
uncle lived.

Speaker 4 (01:27:41):
In North Vietnam and I lived the South.

Speaker 17 (01:27:44):
He said, you Americans said that we had two Vietnams.
We only had one Vietnam, and you had big imaginations.
And Gary, I went back to my hotel room and
I thought, you know, the ken Burns documentaries today are
still already out with a.

Speaker 4 (01:28:00):
North Vietnam and South Vietnam.

Speaker 17 (01:28:04):
And the Vietnamese never saw it that way. They for
two thousand years they beat the Mongols, Chinese, French, Japanese,
and then the Americans came and we were just another
ball coming across their plate that they knew how to
hit out of the park.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 17 (01:28:24):
It took me ten years to write the books because
I had to unwind my mind from all the American
propaganda I had learned from Walter Cronkite until today.

Speaker 1 (01:28:37):
Well, there was great incursion as you and you mentioned
the Chinese, and they certainly played their role in trying
to separate that country, and our involvement only made that
division even even more stark in our minds, but not

(01:28:58):
in the minds of the Vietnamese people, is what you're saying.

Speaker 17 (01:29:03):
No, I meant that the Vietnamese fought the Chinese for.

Speaker 4 (01:29:05):
A thousand years.

Speaker 17 (01:29:07):
Yeah, if we had, if Robert McNamara had just looked
at the history of Vietnam, they're you know, like you
and I are Americans, so.

Speaker 4 (01:29:16):
We okay, We've got Wyatt.

Speaker 17 (01:29:19):
Earp and John Wayne and the pioneers and the entrepreneurs,
and Vietnam their history is just about beating foreigners.

Speaker 4 (01:29:29):
When you grew up in Vietnam, it's like see that.

Speaker 17 (01:29:32):
Tree over there, Johnny, Yeah, well that's where you know,
your great great great great grandfather fought the Chinese.

Speaker 4 (01:29:39):
And then see the road down here, that's.

Speaker 17 (01:29:42):
Where your great great great great grandfather he beat the
Mongols over there.

Speaker 4 (01:29:48):
You know.

Speaker 17 (01:29:48):
I interviewed this woman. She was at the time in
the sixties. She was sixteen years old, and she designed
a battle where they put bamboo steaks in the water
of a river, and the Americans came, and then the
tide went out and the ships were up on the
bamboo stakes and they killed everyone in the ships.

Speaker 4 (01:30:09):
Well, that was designed from a battle that.

Speaker 17 (01:30:13):
Had taken place a thousand years before.

Speaker 6 (01:30:16):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:30:18):
And I said, how.

Speaker 17 (01:30:19):
Are you, as a sixteen year old, aware of a
battle a thousand years old?

Speaker 4 (01:30:24):
And she said, that's our history, our history.

Speaker 17 (01:30:27):
As the foreigners come, we all stand up and we
do people's wars. So, Gary, the whole nation was fighting us.
So during the day, you know, the market girls would
be walking with vegetables and fruit on their head. Ti,
mister soldier, how are you Well, they were moving messages

(01:30:49):
between generals. You know, we would walk you and I
as Marines, would walk through the patty swamps. We'd see
a little stupid looking buffalo boy with no shoes on,
sitting on a buffalo picking his teeth. Well, he was
part of the intelligence net.

Speaker 4 (01:31:07):
They had a million.

Speaker 17 (01:31:08):
Buffalo boys around the country memorizing every single thing that
the Americans were doing and reporting it back to the
Viet com what I learned about Vietnam. You know, the
argument is how did we lose? That's what Americans are
still trying to figure out. How did we lose? I
went back and I realized we never won one day

(01:31:31):
of that war. Every single day, at four pm or
five pm, we had to retreat back to our bases,
barbed wire, We had to.

Speaker 4 (01:31:42):
Dig a hole, right, dig a hole in the ground.

Speaker 17 (01:31:45):
Guys put out the barbed wire and the mines, and
that's when the Vietnamese came out. I interviewed this. I
was talking to this hero of the Vietnam War, Vietnamese guy,
and he said, so, you've seen a lot You've watched
a lot of documentaries about Vietnam, right, mister Bradley. I said, yeah.

(01:32:07):
He said, you never saw me in one. I said,
what do you mean? He said, we didn't fight during
the day. He said, Uncle Hoe said that the Americans
had eyes in the sky during the day. Why fight
the Americans during the day, They're too strong. He said,
we came out at night. We knew the territory, we
couldn mine it. And he said, then your brother was sleeping.

Speaker 4 (01:32:30):
In a you know, sleeping in a u, not a fort.

Speaker 17 (01:32:35):
Comnth you know, in his dugout, and we would harass
them and we'd maybe kill a century or two. And
he said, so even if your brother supposedly, you know,
if he wasn't killed, he didn't get a good night's sleep.
And then when those Marines woke up the next morning,
they could not leave their base. They had to mine

(01:32:58):
sweep the whole area. We put out mines and pungee sticks.
Gary when the Marines, when we first sent the Marines
into Vietnam, you know, just think of a nineteen sixty
five marine top heavy, really good machine gun muscled, you know,
really chiseled. Well, thirty percent of them were injured by

(01:33:20):
pungy sticks.

Speaker 4 (01:33:22):
They stepped into holes.

Speaker 17 (01:33:24):
Poachi Minh had assigned the whittling of pungee sticks to
the grandmas and grandpas of the country. Everybody was fighting,
so gramma and grandpa were sitting there in their hamlets
whittling punge.

Speaker 4 (01:33:36):
Sticks, and fifteen year olds.

Speaker 17 (01:33:38):
Were picking them up and at night putting them in
holes where they knew that you and I were going
to walk the next day. So we had, you know,
one thousand dollars worth of armaments on us, and we
fell in a hole the pungy stick went to our boot.
If we had worn sandals, that would have been more effective.
We could have felt the false cover of punge pits,

(01:34:00):
but we had thick boots and we went right into
that hole and the pungee stick went up and split
our leg into.

Speaker 4 (01:34:08):
You know, went up into the ankle. I'm screaming.

Speaker 17 (01:34:12):
The whole platoon's paying attention, and meanwhile, as you look
come to help me, you're getting picked off by Vietcong
and the trees or in the tall grass. The heroine
of this book May, she saw a chip from Minnesota
kill her father.

Speaker 4 (01:34:30):
So May was a farm girl. She didn't know.

Speaker 17 (01:34:32):
All of a sudden instantly she knows the enemies of
the American She goes to the forest. They train her
in People's War, and she comes out and she sniper's
death five of the Marines whose names are on the
Vietnam Wall. This was, you know, this was a farm girl.

(01:34:52):
There were millions of farm girls around the country that
were chasing us. They chased the Marines out of.

Speaker 4 (01:35:00):
This northern part of Vietnam. That's the point of this book.

Speaker 17 (01:35:04):
Oliver Stone said that if we knew in nineteen sixty nine,
you know, I'm not talking nineteen seventy five when we
saw the helicopters leave. If we knew this is Oliver Stone,
a veteran the Vietnam, he said, if we know what
James Bradley reveals about what happened in nineteen sixty nine
in Vietnam, American mothers would have never sent their children

(01:35:27):
to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Speaker 4 (01:35:30):
Civilians pushed the Marines.

Speaker 17 (01:35:32):
Out Gary, not the North Vietnamese military, no tanks, no armaments.
Civilians and sandals. Not most of them, but like half
of them. Girls I interviewed like kids, you know. When
I interviewed them, they're in their seventies, you know, but
they were like fifteen, sixteen years old. And Ho Chi

(01:35:56):
Minh gave him a game plan. He communicated down to
the hamlets and the patties, look at this is how
we beat the Chinese, This is how we beat the Mongolians.
And everybody stands up, Grandma, grandpa, the girls, the women,
everybody is fighting. Every hamlet is a battle station. So

(01:36:17):
what we didn't realize is the whole country was against us.
We had this idea that we were fighting the North
for the South, and they saw it as just one country,
and they had just beaten the French. Gary, that's what mazed.
They had just wiped the French off, pushed them out
of the country, and then the Americans came in and said, well,

(01:36:40):
we'll fight harder.

Speaker 1 (01:36:42):
Well, you got me absolutely spelledbound James with these stories,
and you know, I feel like I feel like you're
giving away a lot of the book here, but I
know there's so much more after ten years of research
on the Vietnam War and the Vietnamese people and how
they regarded in hindsight. The original question though, going back

(01:37:06):
to Iran, I've talked to many people from the NCRI,
that is again this resistance against the Iatolas that is
still very much alive in in Iran and outside of Iran.
And my question originally to you was, wouldn't it be
better to let the Iranians take care of this than

(01:37:27):
for us to have this kind of involvement again, this
intervention policing, like we're in charge of the entire globe.
And I think that you've answered that very sufficiently to
the answer of courses, yes, because after the bombing of
the nuclear site, you say that they've kind of gathered

(01:37:51):
around the Iatolas again, when there was much descent beforehand?
Was there a lot of was there a lot of
a cent against the communists in Vietnam before they came,
And they have a much different history of invasion than
say a country like Iran.

Speaker 17 (01:38:12):
Yeah, no Iran.

Speaker 4 (01:38:15):
Here, So which one should we do first? Iran?

Speaker 17 (01:38:19):
My policy is because the US military for eighty years
has been unable to successfully do this.

Speaker 2 (01:38:26):
Regime regime change noise.

Speaker 17 (01:38:29):
You know, we should Where did Paton and Eisenhower spend
most of their career on the Mexican border inside the
United States? We didn't have a thousand bases around the world.
And then you know British British Columbia wants to secede,
Northern Michigan wants to secede. Half a California wants to

(01:38:50):
split up. Alabama doesn't like Massachusetts. I mean, you know,
let everybody just rule themselves. You know, we can't bomb Maricopa,
colon because the elections didn't go honestly, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 5 (01:39:04):
Yeah, oh no, I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:08):
I would love to I would love to see a
decentralization of this government and the power out of Washington,
DC and into the exact localities. But What I thought
was most instructive about our conversation thus far James Bradley,
is that the people regarded ho Chi Minh as their

(01:39:29):
George Washington, and we had a George Washington here, and
people who understand our history still revere the father of
our country. But he wasn't an interventionist. He was just
trying to enjoy some precious freedom of their own away

(01:39:51):
from the British monarchy.

Speaker 4 (01:39:54):
That's it.

Speaker 10 (01:39:55):
I went.

Speaker 17 (01:39:56):
I thought I had to study why were these people
fighting communism? And this buffalo boy told me, you know,
an American shot my sister, and that's all I had to.

Speaker 4 (01:40:07):
Know about politics.

Speaker 17 (01:40:08):
He said, we didn't understand or talk about what is democracy?
What is communism? That it was it was American propaganda
that did this communist thing. Walter cronkite communist forces today
were the communists? Well, just listen to it this way,
capitalist leader George Washington, and there's capitalist troops fighting for capitalists.

Speaker 4 (01:40:34):
Nobody does that.

Speaker 17 (01:40:36):
They fight, they fight for mom and dad, and this
isn't so but here now we could just we're just
listening to James minn is the George Washington of the country,
and they're only fighting to be free and there's no
way the Marines.

Speaker 4 (01:40:54):
Can beat him. Who said that.

Speaker 17 (01:40:56):
The commandant of the Marine Corps, his name was David
Shop He won the Medal of Honor at Tarawa, and
when LBJ went into Vietnam, he said, you're absolutely crazy.
The Vietnamese fight at night. They know how to fight.
We can't train our marines to beat him. And he

(01:41:18):
went out and he made speeches across the country that
I and you were not allowed to hear, and he
just turning the word communists into bad. He said, they're
not communists, they're Vietnamese and they're fighting.

Speaker 4 (01:41:35):
For their land and we are going to lose.

Speaker 17 (01:41:38):
So that was the commandant of the Marine Corps Medal
of Honor winner at Tarawa, who said all that.

Speaker 4 (01:41:46):
It's in the book. I was shocked.

Speaker 5 (01:41:48):
James Bradley, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:41:50):
Our time is very, very limited and it has been absolutely.

Speaker 5 (01:41:58):
Man. I'm just.

Speaker 1 (01:42:01):
I'm blown away by your descriptions, by your interviews and
by what you found. The book is Precious Freedom, a
novel of the war in Vietnam. The author is James
Bradley has been our guest and I'm just like I said,
I'm blown away, man, thank you so much.

Speaker 17 (01:42:25):
Well, thank you for twenty eight years at the same
radio station.

Speaker 4 (01:42:30):
An amazing record.

Speaker 5 (01:42:33):
You've been talking to somebody.

Speaker 4 (01:42:37):
Well, we got to do our research.

Speaker 5 (01:42:39):
Yes we do. Thank you sir so much. I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:42:43):
Okay, thank you for having me Garret you bet.

Speaker 5 (01:42:46):
You bet.

Speaker 1 (01:42:47):
James Bradley on the Nightcap Precious Freedom, a novel of
the war in Vietnam.

Speaker 2 (01:42:57):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:42:57):
If that doesn't, if that does not incur you to
go and get that.

Speaker 6 (01:43:01):
Book, I don't know what will.

Speaker 2 (01:43:03):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:43:04):
We're gonna revisit an interview I had with one of
the early stars of the British Invasion, Billy Joe Kramer.
Billy j Kramer coming up afternoons.

Speaker 7 (01:43:15):
Listening to a woman shop in the produce section isn't funny?

Speaker 8 (01:43:19):
Yeah, a sail on cucumbers.

Speaker 7 (01:43:21):
Listening to a woman poot next to the Granny Smiths
oops is funny. Eddie and Rocky are also funny. So
when you think of an apple farterer poops, think of
Eddie and Rocky.

Speaker 5 (01:43:34):
Eddie and Rocky. Tomorrow afternoon at.

Speaker 11 (01:43:36):
Three seven hundred w eldom.

Speaker 5 (01:43:40):
Happy holidays from the Bengals. The Bengals welcome the NFC West, Arizona.

Speaker 2 (01:43:47):
Don't you ever leave me? I'm so in love with you.

Speaker 18 (01:43:56):
The why And that was the first time many people
heard Billy J.

Speaker 1 (01:44:11):
Kramer and the Dakota's nineteen sixty three was it? Yeah,
And he is back and he's still here. He's still
doing what he loves to do. And I think that's
so cool because I'm getting to do what I love
to do, which is interview people like Billy J. Kramer,
Gary Jeff Walker as we continue here on seven hundred WLW.

Speaker 5 (01:44:33):
And I've looked forward to this.

Speaker 6 (01:44:35):
When our friend Jeff Perholtz, who's been working with you
on your new album Billy, mentioned that you were going
to be in town and we had a chance to
do this, I was just like blown over Billy Kramer.

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
Really I got to interview Billy Kramer. Very very cool.
This was the early stage of what became the British Invasion.
You were obviously way bigger in the UK than you
were in the US, but you had hits here too,
and you had the benefit of some pretty pretty prolific songwriters.

Speaker 5 (01:45:07):
We'll get into that in a moment, but how are you.

Speaker 6 (01:45:09):
I'm very well, thank you, I'm nice to be here.

Speaker 5 (01:45:12):
Yeah, what brings you to America this time?

Speaker 2 (01:45:15):
Bill?

Speaker 6 (01:45:15):
Well, I've lived in America for many years now, Okay,
you know I lived in America for like thirty six
thirty seven years.

Speaker 5 (01:45:22):
All right, So what brings you to town?

Speaker 2 (01:45:25):
Then?

Speaker 6 (01:45:25):
I came to town to work with Jeff per Holtz her Holts,
my friend Jeff her Holes. That's what I came to
town for. So how did you get hooked up with Jeff?
I was doing a cruise last year, about a year ago,
and they they linked me up.

Speaker 5 (01:45:50):
It's all right.

Speaker 6 (01:45:50):
They tied me up with Jeff, and I came to
Cincinnati and rehearsed for the cruise with Jeff the studio
and then we we did a cruise together. And I
was going to Abby Road to celebrate sixty years in
show business on my atheeth birthday, and I got him like,

(01:46:13):
I have some fire with Jeff and his wife, Missy,
and I invited them to a couple along time Abby.

Speaker 5 (01:46:19):
They're wonderful people.

Speaker 1 (01:46:20):
I've known him for about twenty five years and actually
hadn't seen him for about twenty years until we met
in a parking lot and for the first time in
twenty years, and he just mentioned working with you, and
I said, really, Billy J.

Speaker 6 (01:46:31):
Kramer, that's so cool. And I said, well, is there
any chance, since he's going to be in town we
could get together? And here we are. So it's coming
on sixty years since you first appeared on the Ed
Sullivan Show. Sixty years June seventh, June seventh, the year

(01:46:53):
of the Great British Invasion. Yes, June seventh was when
I was on The Sullivan Show. And it's come by
very quick.

Speaker 5 (01:47:03):
What do you remember about that night? Specifically?

Speaker 6 (01:47:06):
I was very nervous. I remember, you know, funny enough,
it's it's a bit scary to think that, you know,
you know, you stand there in front of a camera
and realize that there's going to be seventy million people
looking at It's a bit of a scary thought. So

(01:47:26):
I'll be honest with you. I I did the rehearsal
Joe on the day and then I went back to
the hotel and I timed it that I just went
back and just about time to walk on and do it.
So you were managed by Brian Emstein, as I was
who managed the Beatles, obviouslying many other acts right at
that period in popular music in Great Britain and.

Speaker 5 (01:47:49):
How did that happen? How did you get together with Brian?

Speaker 6 (01:47:53):
And it came about where there was a local paper,
Mersey Beat, that all the young kids used to buy.
You know, I was very very very popular music paper
and there was a popularity poll and it was you know,
at the time, I think it's about four hundred bands
around Liverpool and I came second in the popularity pool

(01:48:18):
to the Beatles, and.

Speaker 5 (01:48:20):
That's not a bad runner up.

Speaker 6 (01:48:23):
I was during second with a guy called Lee Kurs
and the All Stars, and then you know, I was
doing shows with the Beatles. I was opening for the
Beatles as it's certain shows, and then when I came second,
there was like they had this show. It's like a
big showcase and we all got got a price and

(01:48:44):
I met Brian there because he he'd he'd given a
tour of Scotland for the highest place non professional and
I declined it because I was I was at the time,
I was, and I was training to be an engineer.

Speaker 5 (01:49:00):
Right, you were a railroad engineer, right.

Speaker 2 (01:49:03):
You know, No, I was.

Speaker 6 (01:49:04):
You know, people when you say I was an engineer
on the railroad, people think that you drove trains. I
didn't drive trains. I took them to pieces and maintained
and put them back to ge Okay, that was the
kind of work I was doing. And I was, you know,
I was actually about to leave Liverpool and go to
a place go Crew for a year, which to me,

(01:49:25):
I've been there doing gigs and I didn't fancy the
idea of going there for a year. But I was.
I was about to pack up the music business altogether,
because part of the training was you went to Crew
for a year to rolls Royce and I was about
I told the guys in the band I was, I
was going to pack it all in. And then Brian
came about about a month before I was going to go.

(01:49:48):
Brian came along and offered me offers and management. Well,
tell me about obviously, through your association with Brian Epstein,
how uh, how met the Beatles.

Speaker 2 (01:50:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:50:01):
Well, and the fact that they gave you songs. They
were so prolific at writing songs. They had a lot
of songs that they never recorded and they kind of
threw you those bits and you turn them into hits.

Speaker 5 (01:50:14):
That that's wonderful.

Speaker 6 (01:50:14):
That.

Speaker 2 (01:50:15):
Tell me.

Speaker 6 (01:50:16):
Tell me about John and Paul and what it was
like to work with them or to you know, open
for them, or was I so open for them? You know,
it's it's more when I look back now, it's more
of a big deal to me now than what it
was then. I think, you know, it was like when
you share dressing rooms with people and people share your

(01:50:37):
hairbrush and stuff like that. You don't you know, to me,
it was you know, I mean I never thought about it,
you know, Paul McConney, like what I did that Christmas show.
I remember, we used to do this like pancake makeup
just to sup. We used to call it slap and
they go, well, kind of go, where's your slap? Believe
I kind of buy your hairbrush? And you know it's

(01:50:58):
like I never looked at it.

Speaker 2 (01:50:59):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:51:01):
The funny thing is I never eat all the Times
of the Beetles, as many songs. I never even us
for an autograph, right, No, I just don't think.

Speaker 1 (01:51:10):
Well, if you'd have known what we all know now,
I probably would have saved some of Paul's hair from
my hair brush.

Speaker 6 (01:51:16):
Yeah, you know what I mean, you know, but I
never thought about it. Yeah, you know, it's like, you know,
people say to me, like when I did like set
Lennon McCartney songs and the lyrics are that that they've
written out by hands. I never I just like roll
them up in the ball and throw them nobody's paper.
But I never nobody thought it was gonna I never

(01:51:38):
thought about it.

Speaker 5 (01:51:39):
So tell me about this new work that you're doing now.

Speaker 1 (01:51:42):
You you've continued to record and obviously play all these years. Yes,
and you and I were talking about what a what
a blast it is to do what you've always wanted
to do in life. Yes, you know, I was seven
years old and I wanted to be on the radio,
and from nineteen and till now. You know, I've been
blessed enough to be able to do that. And you've

(01:52:03):
been in music now for this sixty year period.

Speaker 6 (01:52:07):
Well, I mean I feel very blessed.

Speaker 2 (01:52:09):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:52:09):
Like I said to you earlier, I've never considered this
to be a job. You know, we don't get a
gold watch after so many years. It's something. It's like
I remember my sister, you know, she's older than me,
she's ninety four, and she said to me, like, why
do you do all this? You know, you know, why

(01:52:30):
how come you know you make these records and you
do this and you do that, and I've said it's
because it's what I do.

Speaker 1 (01:52:37):
I've told people for years, Billy that my retirement plan
is death.

Speaker 4 (01:52:43):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:52:43):
Do people ask you are you going to hang it up?

Speaker 2 (01:52:46):
You know?

Speaker 6 (01:52:46):
I mean, I'll be honest with her. We've put a
tremendous amount of work into this, this album, you know,
and I'm delighted with it. I said to Jeff yesterday,
what are we going to do next?

Speaker 5 (01:52:58):
That's right, you're thinking about the project, he says.

Speaker 6 (01:53:01):
To me, let's get this one out of the wake fist.
But that's the way I am, all right exactly, you know.
I mean it's like, you know, I'm azy, and people go,
you know, why you're still doing this just because it's
what I do.

Speaker 1 (01:53:15):
Well, look pretty damn good for Adie, I'll tell you that, Billy.
Thank you probably better than I look at sixty three. Well,
you know, do you attribute that to clean living?

Speaker 2 (01:53:26):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (01:53:27):
I mean, I'll be honest with that. I mean I
wasn't always clean living. I used to drink. I used
to drink and smoke and stay out late and all
those things. Oh this stuff. But I quit all lots
of forty years ago really, I quit all lots of
forty years ago. Yes, well that's.

Speaker 1 (01:53:41):
That's a tribute to you and also a testament to
what that kind of life can give you, this longevity.
There's a lot of different pretty famous people playing on
this album too. You want to talk about some of
the sidemen that you've got working with you.

Speaker 6 (01:53:57):
Well, there's yeah, you know it was a great drummer.
It was with Paul Lawrence Jupa playing guitar. Alan Thompson
it's a bass player with jes Hotel.

Speaker 2 (01:54:13):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (01:54:15):
You know I met Ian Anderson once. Yeah, And have
you ever met Ian?

Speaker 6 (01:54:19):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:54:20):
I met Ian he was doing something. He was in town,
doing something across the country called the Rubbing Elbows Tour
and it was so neat because we were on a
stage at music Hall and there was a big couch
in front of the band on stage, and Ian had
some local musicians who were playing the songs with him,

(01:54:41):
and he'd do a song and then we we'd sit
and do an interview in front of the audience about
the next song and talk about the and then he'd
get up and perform again. It was a very cool experience.
You know, it's that is a I do similar thing.
Now do you where I do this?

Speaker 6 (01:54:58):
This acoustic song and stories, and I have somebody like
a DJ interviewed me and asked me questions about different
songs how I acquired them. Keep me in mind the
next time you're in Cincinnati, Billy, I will you know
songs that I acquired how I recorded them? Any follow
these stories about them and I talk about that and

(01:55:20):
then I sing the songs.

Speaker 2 (01:55:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:55:22):
So were you ever married?

Speaker 6 (01:55:24):
I've been married twice. Yeah, yeah, I was married. I
always say we're all entitle, so make one mistake. Yeah,
you know I didn't get I'll be very honest with you.
I didn't get it right the first time. Neither did
I the second. My second marriage was tremendous. I was
married to a girl from Long Island, New York, Ronnie.

(01:55:46):
We were married for over thirty years. Unfortunately she passed away.
I'm sorry to hear that. So you say you've been
in the United States now for thirty six years living here. Yes,
what prompted you to move from my men? Ronnie?

Speaker 2 (01:56:00):
Huh?

Speaker 6 (01:56:01):
I met I met her. I met her. I was
I was over doing it to all in the United States,
and I met Ronnie.

Speaker 5 (01:56:09):
Aren't the girls wonderful on tour.

Speaker 6 (01:56:11):
Billy. No, It's strange because you know, I think we
had an argument the first time I met. She was
to get it out of the way. She was into
like photography. That's how I met her. She come to
take some So that's another thing you had in common
with Paul Linda, Right, So I did you keep touch

(01:56:33):
with the boys and the initial I'll be honest with that.
In the early days I told with the Beatles I
lost and then you know, I'll be honest with her.
I got to a point where, you know, I didn't
want to hang on to the hotels.

Speaker 2 (01:56:47):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:56:48):
I used to stay at this place in the Russell
Square in London, the President Hotel, and I used to
see Neil Aspinall and male Evans. Then they go, you
come to polls to night and Saint Johnson Wood and
I was calling, no, I'm taking some chick out, some dancer,
you know, good for you, and I've benestly. I sort
of like backdaze. I think you know, I also have

(01:57:10):
a life, sure you know, oh absolutely, And that's that's
what I mean. From time to time over the years,
I've seen the Beatles, you know, the last time Paul
came to Long Island. I got together with him, but
I'm not going to call him up every day in
the week. And that's confirmed. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no,
I didn't. I didn't think that he's driven crazy. You know,

(01:57:31):
I'll be honest with you. He's probably crazy counting his mine,
you know, I was. I was with a lady friend
at Christmas time. We were going through some big department
store and I said, you know, Paul can't do this. Yeah,
you're right, And I thought, you know, I wouldn't want that.
I like going places, I like going stores, and I like,
you know, I like being in show business. I like performing,

(01:57:54):
I like making music. But would you like to be
somewhat anonymous when you're rist to me, I'm like, I
always say that Billy J. Crame is someone that I
take out of a suit bag. So you've got a
new single coming from this new album. What is the
title of this? Well, we have a single after the Moment,
right are you with Me? But there's a new one coming.
There's a new one coming which is written by Mark Hutson.

(01:58:16):
Oh I couldn't have done it without you. Well again,
the benefit of a pretty darn good songwriter. He you know,
he's a heck of a songwriter. I've done a lot
of shows with Mark. I'm funny enough. When we were
like compiling what songs we're going to do Abby Road,
I'd spoken to Mark about a year before. We we
have talked about ideas, and then I'd sort of like

(01:58:39):
made the list of ten songs I thought would be
good to do. And then a week or two before
he called me up and he says, you know this
song we were talking about Berli. I said yeah. He said, well,
I finished it, I'll send it to you. And it
was so flipping good. I thought, you know, what can
I take out and put it? Put this one? And

(01:59:00):
so the album though, is debuting, correct when does that happen?
It's going to come out at the end of May.
Begin in viewe all right, and the title of the
album is are you with Me? Well we are today
and it's been a joy, Thank you, It's been an
absolute joy. So you're gonna do videos and everything for

(01:59:21):
the song?

Speaker 2 (01:59:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:59:21):
We We did a great video one. Jeff and I
went to Liverpool after we did the Abby Road thing.
Win and Jeff Kindy did a great video which is
a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:59:33):
Is there something about is there still something about the
mystique about Abbey Road Recording? There is there something to that,
you know, is it just a studio or is it
something else?

Speaker 6 (01:59:44):
There is something special about it. But you know, I'll
be honest with you.

Speaker 17 (01:59:47):
I have.

Speaker 6 (01:59:48):
We had this wonderful party and my best day and
everything there. But you know, it's like there was so
much going on. The only thing is I'll be honest
with Somebody came up to me, tous what's it feel?
And I looked across them and remembered exactly where John
Lennam was when he sat at the piano and played
Beats to me and I call your name, and where

(02:00:10):
Paul played from a window. And I'll keep you satisfied,
you know. Yeah, it's a bit like a bit melancholy,
you know.

Speaker 1 (02:00:20):
Well, I love I love even the old stuff. I mean,
we started with the Bad to Me, which was your
first big one, and Little Children is a fantastic song too.
And I'm looking forward to hearing the album Are You
with Me by Billy J. Kramer comes out end of May,
first of June, and we'll keep you posted, thank you
very much. Anything else, anything else, No it's just been

(02:00:43):
a pleasure. It's been great to be here in Cincinnati.
It's being wonderful to have met Jeff and Missy and
do this album. They're very very special people. Oh they're
great people. And on top of that, they're phenomenal musicians.

Speaker 6 (02:00:58):
See absolutely, and I just feel blessed to meet such
people at this time or month.

Speaker 19 (02:01:04):
Maybe you missed one of our shows because your car
isn't really hands free, oopsy.

Speaker 5 (02:01:12):
Don't worry.

Speaker 19 (02:01:13):
Maybe you missed one of our shows, maybe miss Maybe
you missed one of our shows because your car. Maybe
you missed one of our shows because your car isn't
really hands free. Oops, don't worry. You can get the
podcast of our shows and here what you missed. Check
them out on the iHeartRadio.

Speaker 8 (02:01:33):
Add Another summer is ended, and you may have noticed
that your energy is lowering, Your workouts aren't as productive.
Perhaps you aren't sleeping as well, and feel.

Speaker 1 (02:01:43):
Just ticking down the hours towards another Christmas celebration in America.
I'll be celebrating, and if you are, we can celebrate
together tomorrow night. A very special night cap. It's some
of my favorite Christmas music, some of your favorite Christmas music,
Some favorite Christmas music of people around here on the

(02:02:04):
Big One, including Bill Cunningham and a few other friends,
will drop by tomorrow night between nine and midnight. I
hope you can join us then, but for now, we
conclude this night camp by playing our Star Spangled Banner,
the one and only national anthem of the United States
of America, on seven hundred WLW.

Speaker 7 (02:03:43):
News, Traffic and Weather News Radio seven hundred w l W, Cincinnati.

Speaker 14 (02:03:52):
Survivors and lawmakers say the Justice Department missed a deadline
and released only a fraction of the Epstein files.

Speaker 1 (02:04:00):
With your twelve twelve o'clock report on Travis Laird Bring