October 23, 2025 • 18 mins
Scott talks with health and fitness expert Sanjay Shewakramani about how your sleep plays into your health on a day-to-day basis.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right, here we go with drama in the National
Basketball Association. Free mafia families have ties to some figures.
NBA players, you got Chauncey Billups a coach, you got players.
It's incredible. It's like Tony Soprano, James Gandelfini has come
back to life with Polly Walnuts and and the rest
(00:23):
of the crew from the Sopranos, and like Jersey is
representing today in the National Basketball Association. That's a huge
developing store. We're gonna have more in that coming up
on the show on seven hundred w W. Because I
got feeling I gonna be wrong about this, but somebody's
gonna get whacked. Somebody is gonna get whacked. And when
whackings breakout, we break in here on seven hundred WW
Sloany and this morning. And this affects all of us too.
(00:47):
By the way, I just tell you a story about
the social media and how they fed all the clickbait
and all this nonsense you read on social media into
AI chatbots, and it actually made aicha AI dummer and
more angry, which is it's measurable and that's computer imagement's
doing us. And of all the things to keep you awakened.
That may be one thing. Some sixty to seventy million
Americans have chronic sleep deprivation. Twenty two of us have
(01:10):
sleep apnea. Twenty two million people have sleep apnea. Insomnia
effects about a third of the population. A third of
adults in four and ten say they often feel or
fall asleep at work. And if you're a truck driver,
that's really concerning. Some jobs you probably can get away with.
There are times where I've admittedly fall asleep during the
show and no one noticed. But truck drivers that is bad.
You're flying an airplane. Bad. You're probably in somebody's heart
(01:33):
doing surgery. Bad. Talk show not so much. Sonjay Shaiva
Crimani's on the show this morning is in the air
physician at doctor Sonja Sinsey with a y or. He
intersects the worlds of food and health and fitness and
jumps in the show This Morning in studio this morning,
How are you a coach? How you doing doing well?
Thanks for having I'm doing good, Thanks for coming in
(01:53):
this morning. Okay, so you're an your air physician in Cincinnati,
but you're also you're in the fitness realm as well. Well.
You hear the story, and you probably see a lot
of sleep apnea presents, and we know that you can
get some very serious illness. You can die from sleep apna.
How much how many undiagnosed the twenty two million, how
many of those you think are undiagnosed, like the bulk
of them.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I think it's probably the bulk. So I mean, to
have the diagnosis, you kind of have to see a doctor,
have the studies done right.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And some people, you know, are just getting slapped in
the middle of the night by their partner in bed,
being like you're snoring, when it's actually it's something more
serious than that, specifically sleep apna.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Or you just go into another bedroom of the couch exactly.
You can't stand it.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
That's the new thing. It's sleep divorce. Yeah, you've heard
of this thing. Yeah, yeah, that's a big deal. Yeah,
so people are starting to do that. But it's not
like divorcing because of sleep. It's just sleeping in separate areas.
But that might actually be your clue that maybe there's
something else going on other than you just can't sleep
well without the person or you can't stand your partner,
like it could be something worse.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Well, let's get how much how much of these sleep
problems that we have in America and affects most all
of us. I mean, they say, get between eight you know,
eight hours of sleep? Is that an actual goal? Is
that a hard fast number? Is it different for different people?
So it's a pretty solid number. So seven to eight
hours is what we're shooting for. Something less than seven
does start adding up. In fact, your performance in general
(03:09):
kind of decreases over time. So I actually went to
this Ted talk several years ago and the guy said,
you know, the first four hours of sleep is just
to restore your body. That's all you're doing. You're repairing
your body. But the next four hours is where your
brain regenerates. So like all that emotional stuff that you
need to face your day, you need to face the
struggles of your day, the challenges, like, that's what you
(03:30):
get in the next four hours, and you need those
next four hours, all of it to be your best
in those emotional situations. So, yeah, we can survive, but
we are not the best versions of ourselves while we're
just surviving. If we're getting four to six hours of sleep,
it's ours seven and eight where we really get like
the maximum benefit can you make that up in the
weekend when some people go working really hard. And then
(03:51):
I mean, you know you're an eer doc, so you
were crazy. Do you sleep for like twelve hours? Is that?
Can you? That would be a health Yeah? Right, but yeah,
excuse the pun. If you could do that like a college.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
So the whole idea of like banking sleep and getting it,
there's there's a little bit of benefit there, but it's
not as much as we think. It's the it's the
daily kind of thing we need to get and this
is one of those Yeah, you just nailed it. Like
as an er doc, my my schedule is crazy. It's days,
it's nights, it's weekends, it's all over the place. And
so that's why I hold sleep such in such importance
(04:22):
in my life because it's it's not good, but it
is literally the foundation of my well being and everything else.
It is the number one thing. And you can ask
my fiance. I'm almost obsessive about my sleep, but I
need to be because it's thrown off so often that
I have to do whatever I can to maximize it
so I can be my best in every.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Realm in my life. And it's more like a shift
work because you're you know, you're not, Hey, I'm not
a nine to five er, doc. No, it's where they
need you in different times and for twelve hours of
a time, right, or maybe longer in some cases. But
that's true for a lot of people who work second
third shift. They wroteate cops do that, right.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, And and it affects you over time. A lot
of people love working nights for for good reason. It's
usually a cooler vibe, right, But turning around or sleeping
during the day, it's just not what our bodies were
built to do, and overtime that wears on us. I mean,
there's studies out there that you know, if you're if
you're a night shift worker, you literally die earlier than
people who were dacious, right. And I've known this my
entire career, and I'm just like, oh, I just accept it,
(05:17):
and now I'm doing what i can to like die
a little later, I guess.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
But it's yeah, well you know what I mean. Look,
we're going to at a time a year now, son, Jay,
where you don't see the sun, and if you work
thirds like I did that for a while, you literally
you don't see the sun at all. Ever. Yeah, and
we know that has a big, big effect on the
sleep cycle or Katie.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Rhythms exactly, so like when when you wake up. So
the whole thing is people oftentimes say watch your blue
light at night before you go to bed, and that's
a that's a whole thing, or being exposed to light
in the last couple hours before you go to bed,
but they're actually finding also the morning time daylight is
really important, so like within an hour, getting ten to
fifteen minutes of light exposure in that hour. But if
it's dark outside, if you've got one of the Cincinnati winters,
(05:58):
you're not going to see the sun necesscessarily if you're
sleeping all day. And so it does affect the night
shift workers over time. And it initially you may not
feel it or if you're young, but as we get older,
it really starts adding up.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
What about one of those happy lights. I've got one
of those. I don't in the winter. Sometimes I'll plug
it in at my desk or whatever, and it throws
out simulates the sun. Does that work? Does that do anything?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
It's something, it does a little something. It's not as
great as being out in nature, being exposed to the
to the elements, but at the same time, you'd be
exposing yourself to the elements, and so it's like fifteen
degrees outside.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Hell yeah, go right, go hit the light. Why do
we do this? I mean you just hit on two things.
You want that sunlight, that natural sunlight early in the morning.
Why not make an alarm clock that has a light
hooked up to it and it gradually comes on and
lights up the room? What about that?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
It's got your billion dollar idea has already been invented
over and over again.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
But I had something again, But no, it exists.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I forget the brand names for it, but they definitely exist,
and they slowly come on and slowly wake you up.
I'll tell you, the smallest shred of light will have
me up and eyes open. So it's not great for me,
but it works for some people.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Sanja Shave of Krimani's on the show. He's the our
physician at Doctor Sonjay Sincy and a expert in fitness
and food and health and fil We're talking about sleep
this morning, which is a big deal. Most of us
don't get the necessary seven to eight hours if you're
getting sad. I'm like a seven guy myself, so I
think I'm okay, but I noticed too. The older you get,
you wake up in the middle of the night and
you're up for like two or three hour feels like
(07:23):
you're up for hours, right, Yeah, what is that? Why
is that happen?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So the brain starts getting I mean, you're just getting old, Sloan,
that's what it is. So your your brain starts.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Telling me about it. Because I'm limping around the studio
just getting off crutches. Yeah, no, kidden, thanks, you and
me both are broken ankles, shopgel. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
But overtime, so when we're young, our brain knows what
to do, and over time our brain kind of forgets
what to do and how to sync with the cycle
of life. That's what That's what the current thought is.
So as we get older, our brain's like, oh, it's
the middle of the night, maybe I'm supposed to be
awake right now, as opposed to our younger brain that
is smarter. So yeah, we're just getting dark. It's dumb
and here we are.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
I thought it was something to it, like I'm so
efficient at sleep. I only need four or five hours
and I wake up and I'll wake for two or three.
But I remember seeing something son Jay years ago a
fascinating story about the history of sleep in how screwed
up we got when electricity came on and you know,
candlelight things like, because it used to be Hey, you
and some goes down the fire, go to bed at
five o'clock and then get up in the But people
(08:21):
would sleep for four hours, get up, they'd make babies,
they get the stuff ready to eat the next day,
get some firewood going, and then they go to bed.
They'd be up for a few hours and then go
to bed for So because human history is a relatively
small sliver of our existence, so modern history we're talking
about here, we're like genetically wire to wake up in
(08:41):
the middle of the night to some degree somewhat.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I mean, we don't have a lot of evidence of
all that stuff, but I'll tell you that. Like, what
we've also found is different cultures need different amount of sleep.
So like we say we need seven eight hours as humans,
but it's actually kind of an American state. I don't
know what other countries there are, but some countries actually
require less sleep. Yeah, and you're okay, you're actually thriving
at sex. So it's kind of weird. So maybe that
(09:06):
was a different culture back then too, where you needed
less sleep or needed to sleep in the middle of
the day. But you know, like European culture with the
siesta and everything, that also works for them, and so
it depends. But the kind of cumulative amount you need
is seven or eight in today's world for the most part.
Now that we're all becoming semi one culture because we're
(09:27):
all plugged into the same stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Right right, Okay, now that makes a lot of sense.
So we're also told, hey, you know you need a
ten thousand dollars mattress that cools and heats you unless
you up and down all that stuff to get the
best nice sleep in your life?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Is that just marketing? Is are some truth in that?
There's definitely truth to it. I think you know, you
got mattresses, you got supplements, you got all the other
things out there. Mattress is important. I mean, I definitely
invested in a good mattress and a good pillow. But
there's there's other things you can do. And specifically, you know,
temperature of your room would which a lot of people
(10:00):
don't key in on. It's the light that we just
talked about, and then it's consistency of sleep schedule, which
coming from me, I I mean do as I say,
not as I do on that one, because I literally can't.
But the the mattress quality is important. I mean, if
you're if you're sleeping on a bed of rocks and
that's something new to you, it's not gonna it's not
gonna turn out well.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
If you toss and turn son Jay, is that indicating
indicating you a bad nights sleep or is it just
your toster return Because I'm a touser turn.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So are you a tosser and turner all night or
is it a tosser and turner intermittently?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I have no idea. I'm sleeping. Yeah what I know.
You're the doctor and tell me I asked a really
good questions. Yeah, you definitely your flipping all over the place.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
So, so you know, our body goes through the cycles
of sleep, and you know, we're light sleep, then we're
deep sleep, and then there's the REM cycle where our
brain goes a little wild. That's when our dreams happen.
And as we go on further in the night, typically
if we're if we're healthy, we'll have more and more
REM cycles as the night goes on. And so it's
not aotypical for you to be tossing and turning, especially
(11:02):
like between if you're sleeping from eleven to seven, from
three to seven, you're probably gonna be tossing more because
you might toss more with your dreams because your brain's
a little restless and doing all the rem things that
it needs to do and having all the dreams.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, it seems I wake up, it'll be like a
solid four hours and you wake up and then you
go to the bathroom or whatever. And that's the other
thing too, is you get older, you tend to go
to the bathroom more.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, it's all you know, you and I, I mean
for the whole my part where we're definitely the four
hour wake up guys now and it doesn't matter what
I do, and and now are their ankle bros. You know,
with those injuries. I have a little more swelling in
my ankle now than I used to. And so that
just that's what goes in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Wake up and go Should you just get up? If
it's like, Okay, I'm wide awake, I feel good. Should
I just go up and do something and then come
back to bed later. So it's a great point. You
makes it long.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
So a lot of people are like, Oh, I'm just
gonna stay in bed, I'm gonna I'm gonna sleep, I'm
gonna sleep, I'm gonna sleep. I'm gonna get back to sleep.
But one of the best things you can do sometimes
is get up and move around and change your environment
just for a little bit and come back to bed.
You don't want to necessarily like a video game or
look at a screen or maybe even even look at
an eeater. You just kind of want to move your
(12:05):
environment a little bit. Don't eat, don't drink anything, but
just move a little bit, come back to bed and
try again, as opposed to just willing it to be
just lying in bed, because when we force something like that,
it just never turns out good.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, Signja Shava Karani is on his z our physician
and we're talking about health and fitness and well and sleep.
It is a big thing. Especially we're going to at
the time change here in a little bit. That always
screws people up. Yep, you know, our gain, our lost whatever.
But at the end of the day, your body still
has to adjust to these whole things, and you may
be getting up in the middle of the night and
you're tossing and turning. What does that mean to I
(12:38):
need a better mattress? Is the room comfortable? These things?
And I'll come full circle on this because we were
talking about how social media pollutes the brain, and they
tested with AI in it. It's making AI dummer. If
they feeded a steady dye a clickbait, what does that
say about me and you? I think that's the other
thing is do most people who is you know, we
talked about sleep apnean, We've talked about other reasons why
people don't get a good night's sleep, But how much
(13:00):
of this is by you know, just life baggage. You know,
we're consuming news or online and reading all this stuff,
and then you wake up and you start thinking about it,
and then you have this fear and you start getting
this cycle, this mental cycle, and now all of a sudden,
that's where the I alwould say, you know, nighttime, that's
when the demons come out in your head when it's quiet,
and you start thinking fatalist things and horrible things. And
how do you break that cycle? And how much does
(13:21):
that contribute to what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It is a great question because the two things that
we're keying in on here is one the use of
the phone in general. So you have blue light, you know,
shooting into your eyeballs and it's waking up your brain
while you're using it, and so we really want to
turn that off literally at least one hour before bed
with any like any device, tablets, phones, et cetera, to
(13:43):
allow our brains to rest a little bit. And then
you have the issue of well, the content of that
and what it's doing to you and adding to your
stress and anxiety, especially taking in world events, et cetera,
but maybe even your own personal stuff. Right, your brain's
just going and it is hard to calm down. And
a lot of people say, you know, I got to
read before I go to bed, or I got to
get my news in before I go to bed, and
it's actually working for me. You've probably conditioned your brain,
(14:06):
like watching TV before bed, which a lot of people do.
I my best friend falls asleep watching TV every night.
You probably condition your brain to say, oh, that's the TV.
I'm going to go to sleep now, Okay, right, but
you're not going to get good sleep, so your brain's
going to be kind of still going with all of
that stuff still processing it, and then you know you'll
have one of those middle of the.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Night wake ups.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Like you're talking about, everything's quiet, and that's the time
when your brain shows up and has a party. And
so it's really hard to fall asleep when there's stuff,
you know, when you're taking in stuff right before you
go to bed.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
You should tell my wife this, because she'll sit there
and scroll TikTok for like an hour, yeah, and then
go put it down, and she's sleeping in thirty seconds
and sleeps with straight eight hours.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I mean, there's superhumans among us. They're superhumans out there,
and I am definitely not one of them.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I can't, I can't. I get my iPad. But I'm
reading a book, yeah, you know, and something that's like history,
or I'm reading a book about George Remas from Cincinnati
here of all things. And yeah, it takes you know,
for me, I read like a half a chapter and
fall asleep. So I try to find boring topics and
things like that and not to get all worked up.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
And just you know, there's two ways as far as
content goes. So my fiance was reading this boring book
and literally she read two lines every night and she
out and it was you know, it was this like
really scientific book and.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
It works.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
But I prefer actually reading fiction on a on like
a Kindle e reader, so you get a little less
blue light coming out, but there's still some lights are out.
And I read fiction because it just sends me into
like fantasy worlds and I'm in a dream zone.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Now.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Some people will say that you readers do admit the
well they do. They emit some light, so you're kind
of affecting yourself a little bit. So but you know
what's the other way you're going to do it is
have a light above your head right, and that's hitting
their book and now it's hitting your eyebody.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
You like the dark background with the light white light
right is exactly like that that mode or whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
You definitely want nightmode if you're using like one of
those fancy tablets e readers as opposed to like the Kindle.
You know, where are you on melowtonin I So, I
think we're using too much melotone? Right, So the effective
dose is like zero point three to zero point five literally,
and people are dropping like twenty milligrams a night, and
you know it's okay. There you get to a plateau
(16:14):
point where it's just not as effective. So what melatonin
does for us is it says it's nighttime, and that's
all it does. It doesn't say I'm going to keep
you asleep or anything like that. It just sets your
clock and says it's nighttime. Great for like if you've
been working nights or if your sleep's been off a
little bit, just to use sparingly every now and then.
Now I use melotone in kind of a combination with
(16:38):
a couple other things a couple of times, maybe one
or two times a week, but it's usually when I'm
flipping or I haven't had a good sleep and my
body's just thrown off for a whekit. It's fine.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I'm more frequent than that. I probably should back it up,
but I but again, I've noticed so I take like
it's like a three milligram tuble that was too much
for me? I would I like take a third of that? Yeah?
And where'd you feel it was too much? What time
of the day? Like I don't know, Like I didn't
want to wake up, Like I don't feel rested, Like
maybe it's too much of this stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I So I have about a twelve hour period that
I have to give myself where I'm going to be
awake again. Yeah, because I'm going to be groggy as hell.
If I take something even one and a half milligrams,
I'm going to be groggy afterwards. So you kind of
want to take it a little bit earlier. Now the
packaging will say twenty to thirty minutes before you sleep.
I give myself a little more time if I'm only
going to be sleeping eight hours.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah, yeah, now you really want to sleep? You know,
some some nquill four or five of those talamol pms
and a half a like a fifth of Jim Beaman.
You're good. You sleep like not doctor a baby, like
a baby. That's just all right. Doctor Sanjay, he's our
physician health food fitness at Doctor Sanjay Sinci with why
two whys in there? And thanks for coming to this man,
(17:45):
it's great to talk to you. I love the I
love the intersection of medicine and health and just common
sense kind of stuff there. Yeah. I appreciate the timesloan.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It's just it is all one to me, and it
all kind of feeds into each other back and forth,
you know, having a better life while you're awake, will
make you sleep better U versus.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
So it all it's all healthy to me, all right, goodness,
so we'll do. This's on the regular, I think anyway,
Doctor Sanjay, thanks again. We got to get to a
news update. The NBA has apparently falling apart. We have
the mobsters, my people, Laclos and Ostra, Tony Soprano, all
those guys involved in the NBA. What details seconds away
here seven hundred WW Cincinnati,
All right, here we go with drama in the National
Basketball Association. Free mafia families have ties to some figures.
NBA players, you got Chauncey Billups a coach, you got players.
It's incredible. It's like Tony Soprano, James Gandelfini has come
back to life with Polly Walnuts and and the rest
(00:23):
of the crew from the Sopranos, and like Jersey is
representing today in the National Basketball Association. That's a huge
developing store. We're gonna have more in that coming up
on the show on seven hundred w W. Because I
got feeling I gonna be wrong about this, but somebody's
gonna get whacked. Somebody is gonna get whacked. And when
whackings breakout, we break in here on seven hundred WW
Sloany and this morning. And this affects all of us too.
(00:47):
By the way, I just tell you a story about
the social media and how they fed all the clickbait
and all this nonsense you read on social media into
AI chatbots, and it actually made aicha AI dummer and
more angry, which is it's measurable and that's computer imagement's
doing us. And of all the things to keep you awakened.
That may be one thing. Some sixty to seventy million
Americans have chronic sleep deprivation. Twenty two of us have
(01:10):
sleep apnea. Twenty two million people have sleep apnea. Insomnia
effects about a third of the population. A third of
adults in four and ten say they often feel or
fall asleep at work. And if you're a truck driver,
that's really concerning. Some jobs you probably can get away with.
There are times where I've admittedly fall asleep during the
show and no one noticed. But truck drivers that is bad.
You're flying an airplane. Bad. You're probably in somebody's heart
(01:33):
doing surgery. Bad. Talk show not so much. Sonjay Shaiva
Crimani's on the show this morning is in the air
physician at doctor Sonja Sinsey with a y or. He
intersects the worlds of food and health and fitness and
jumps in the show This Morning in studio this morning,
How are you a coach? How you doing doing well?
Thanks for having I'm doing good, Thanks for coming in
(01:53):
this morning. Okay, so you're an your air physician in Cincinnati,
but you're also you're in the fitness realm as well. Well.
You hear the story, and you probably see a lot
of sleep apnea presents, and we know that you can
get some very serious illness. You can die from sleep apna.
How much how many undiagnosed the twenty two million, how
many of those you think are undiagnosed, like the bulk
of them.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I think it's probably the bulk. So I mean, to
have the diagnosis, you kind of have to see a doctor,
have the studies done right.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And some people, you know, are just getting slapped in
the middle of the night by their partner in bed,
being like you're snoring, when it's actually it's something more
serious than that, specifically sleep apna.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Or you just go into another bedroom of the couch exactly.
You can't stand it.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
That's the new thing. It's sleep divorce. Yeah, you've heard
of this thing. Yeah, yeah, that's a big deal. Yeah,
so people are starting to do that. But it's not
like divorcing because of sleep. It's just sleeping in separate areas.
But that might actually be your clue that maybe there's
something else going on other than you just can't sleep
well without the person or you can't stand your partner,
like it could be something worse.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Well, let's get how much how much of these sleep
problems that we have in America and affects most all
of us. I mean, they say, get between eight you know,
eight hours of sleep? Is that an actual goal? Is
that a hard fast number? Is it different for different people?
So it's a pretty solid number. So seven to eight
hours is what we're shooting for. Something less than seven
does start adding up. In fact, your performance in general
(03:09):
kind of decreases over time. So I actually went to
this Ted talk several years ago and the guy said,
you know, the first four hours of sleep is just
to restore your body. That's all you're doing. You're repairing
your body. But the next four hours is where your
brain regenerates. So like all that emotional stuff that you
need to face your day, you need to face the
struggles of your day, the challenges, like, that's what you
(03:30):
get in the next four hours, and you need those
next four hours, all of it to be your best
in those emotional situations. So, yeah, we can survive, but
we are not the best versions of ourselves while we're
just surviving. If we're getting four to six hours of sleep,
it's ours seven and eight where we really get like
the maximum benefit can you make that up in the
weekend when some people go working really hard. And then
(03:51):
I mean, you know you're an eer doc, so you
were crazy. Do you sleep for like twelve hours? Is that?
Can you? That would be a health Yeah? Right, but yeah,
excuse the pun. If you could do that like a college.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
So the whole idea of like banking sleep and getting it,
there's there's a little bit of benefit there, but it's
not as much as we think. It's the it's the
daily kind of thing we need to get and this
is one of those Yeah, you just nailed it. Like
as an er doc, my my schedule is crazy. It's days,
it's nights, it's weekends, it's all over the place. And
so that's why I hold sleep such in such importance
(04:22):
in my life because it's it's not good, but it
is literally the foundation of my well being and everything else.
It is the number one thing. And you can ask
my fiance. I'm almost obsessive about my sleep, but I
need to be because it's thrown off so often that
I have to do whatever I can to maximize it
so I can be my best in every.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Realm in my life. And it's more like a shift
work because you're you know, you're not, Hey, I'm not
a nine to five er, doc. No, it's where they
need you in different times and for twelve hours of
a time, right, or maybe longer in some cases. But
that's true for a lot of people who work second
third shift. They wroteate cops do that, right.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, And and it affects you over time. A lot
of people love working nights for for good reason. It's
usually a cooler vibe, right, But turning around or sleeping
during the day, it's just not what our bodies were
built to do, and overtime that wears on us. I mean,
there's studies out there that you know, if you're if
you're a night shift worker, you literally die earlier than
people who were dacious, right. And I've known this my
entire career, and I'm just like, oh, I just accept it,
(05:17):
and now I'm doing what i can to like die
a little later, I guess.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
But it's yeah, well you know what I mean. Look,
we're going to at a time a year now, son, Jay,
where you don't see the sun, and if you work
thirds like I did that for a while, you literally
you don't see the sun at all. Ever. Yeah, and
we know that has a big, big effect on the
sleep cycle or Katie.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Rhythms exactly, so like when when you wake up. So
the whole thing is people oftentimes say watch your blue
light at night before you go to bed, and that's
a that's a whole thing, or being exposed to light
in the last couple hours before you go to bed,
but they're actually finding also the morning time daylight is
really important, so like within an hour, getting ten to
fifteen minutes of light exposure in that hour. But if
it's dark outside, if you've got one of the Cincinnati winters,
(05:58):
you're not going to see the sun necesscessarily if you're
sleeping all day. And so it does affect the night
shift workers over time. And it initially you may not
feel it or if you're young, but as we get older,
it really starts adding up.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
What about one of those happy lights. I've got one
of those. I don't in the winter. Sometimes I'll plug
it in at my desk or whatever, and it throws
out simulates the sun. Does that work? Does that do anything?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
It's something, it does a little something. It's not as
great as being out in nature, being exposed to the
to the elements, but at the same time, you'd be
exposing yourself to the elements, and so it's like fifteen
degrees outside.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Hell yeah, go right, go hit the light. Why do
we do this? I mean you just hit on two things.
You want that sunlight, that natural sunlight early in the morning.
Why not make an alarm clock that has a light
hooked up to it and it gradually comes on and
lights up the room? What about that?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
It's got your billion dollar idea has already been invented
over and over again.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
But I had something again, But no, it exists.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I forget the brand names for it, but they definitely exist,
and they slowly come on and slowly wake you up.
I'll tell you, the smallest shred of light will have
me up and eyes open. So it's not great for me,
but it works for some people.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Sanja Shave of Krimani's on the show. He's the our
physician at Doctor Sonjay Sincy and a expert in fitness
and food and health and fil We're talking about sleep
this morning, which is a big deal. Most of us
don't get the necessary seven to eight hours if you're
getting sad. I'm like a seven guy myself, so I
think I'm okay, but I noticed too. The older you get,
you wake up in the middle of the night and
you're up for like two or three hour feels like
(07:23):
you're up for hours, right, Yeah, what is that? Why
is that happen?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So the brain starts getting I mean, you're just getting old, Sloan,
that's what it is. So your your brain starts.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Telling me about it. Because I'm limping around the studio
just getting off crutches. Yeah, no, kidden, thanks, you and
me both are broken ankles, shopgel. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
But overtime, so when we're young, our brain knows what
to do, and over time our brain kind of forgets
what to do and how to sync with the cycle
of life. That's what That's what the current thought is.
So as we get older, our brain's like, oh, it's
the middle of the night, maybe I'm supposed to be
awake right now, as opposed to our younger brain that
is smarter. So yeah, we're just getting dark. It's dumb
and here we are.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
I thought it was something to it, like I'm so
efficient at sleep. I only need four or five hours
and I wake up and I'll wake for two or three.
But I remember seeing something son Jay years ago a
fascinating story about the history of sleep in how screwed
up we got when electricity came on and you know,
candlelight things like, because it used to be Hey, you
and some goes down the fire, go to bed at
five o'clock and then get up in the But people
(08:21):
would sleep for four hours, get up, they'd make babies,
they get the stuff ready to eat the next day,
get some firewood going, and then they go to bed.
They'd be up for a few hours and then go
to bed for So because human history is a relatively
small sliver of our existence, so modern history we're talking
about here, we're like genetically wire to wake up in
(08:41):
the middle of the night to some degree somewhat.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I mean, we don't have a lot of evidence of
all that stuff, but I'll tell you that. Like, what
we've also found is different cultures need different amount of sleep.
So like we say we need seven eight hours as humans,
but it's actually kind of an American state. I don't
know what other countries there are, but some countries actually
require less sleep. Yeah, and you're okay, you're actually thriving
at sex. So it's kind of weird. So maybe that
(09:06):
was a different culture back then too, where you needed
less sleep or needed to sleep in the middle of
the day. But you know, like European culture with the
siesta and everything, that also works for them, and so
it depends. But the kind of cumulative amount you need
is seven or eight in today's world for the most part.
Now that we're all becoming semi one culture because we're
(09:27):
all plugged into the same stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Right right, Okay, now that makes a lot of sense.
So we're also told, hey, you know you need a
ten thousand dollars mattress that cools and heats you unless
you up and down all that stuff to get the
best nice sleep in your life?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Is that just marketing? Is are some truth in that?
There's definitely truth to it. I think you know, you
got mattresses, you got supplements, you got all the other
things out there. Mattress is important. I mean, I definitely
invested in a good mattress and a good pillow. But
there's there's other things you can do. And specifically, you know,
temperature of your room would which a lot of people
(10:00):
don't key in on. It's the light that we just
talked about, and then it's consistency of sleep schedule, which
coming from me, I I mean do as I say,
not as I do on that one, because I literally can't.
But the the mattress quality is important. I mean, if
you're if you're sleeping on a bed of rocks and
that's something new to you, it's not gonna it's not
gonna turn out well.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
If you toss and turn son Jay, is that indicating
indicating you a bad nights sleep or is it just
your toster return Because I'm a touser turn.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So are you a tosser and turner all night or
is it a tosser and turner intermittently?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I have no idea. I'm sleeping. Yeah what I know.
You're the doctor and tell me I asked a really
good questions. Yeah, you definitely your flipping all over the place.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
So, so you know, our body goes through the cycles
of sleep, and you know, we're light sleep, then we're
deep sleep, and then there's the REM cycle where our
brain goes a little wild. That's when our dreams happen.
And as we go on further in the night, typically
if we're if we're healthy, we'll have more and more
REM cycles as the night goes on. And so it's
not aotypical for you to be tossing and turning, especially
(11:02):
like between if you're sleeping from eleven to seven, from
three to seven, you're probably gonna be tossing more because
you might toss more with your dreams because your brain's
a little restless and doing all the rem things that
it needs to do and having all the dreams.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, it seems I wake up, it'll be like a
solid four hours and you wake up and then you
go to the bathroom or whatever. And that's the other
thing too, is you get older, you tend to go
to the bathroom more.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, it's all you know, you and I, I mean
for the whole my part where we're definitely the four
hour wake up guys now and it doesn't matter what
I do, and and now are their ankle bros. You know,
with those injuries. I have a little more swelling in
my ankle now than I used to. And so that
just that's what goes in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Wake up and go Should you just get up? If
it's like, Okay, I'm wide awake, I feel good. Should
I just go up and do something and then come
back to bed later. So it's a great point. You
makes it long.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
So a lot of people are like, Oh, I'm just
gonna stay in bed, I'm gonna I'm gonna sleep, I'm
gonna sleep, I'm gonna sleep. I'm gonna get back to sleep.
But one of the best things you can do sometimes
is get up and move around and change your environment
just for a little bit and come back to bed.
You don't want to necessarily like a video game or
look at a screen or maybe even even look at
an eeater. You just kind of want to move your
(12:05):
environment a little bit. Don't eat, don't drink anything, but
just move a little bit, come back to bed and
try again, as opposed to just willing it to be
just lying in bed, because when we force something like that,
it just never turns out good.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, Signja Shava Karani is on his z our physician
and we're talking about health and fitness and well and sleep.
It is a big thing. Especially we're going to at
the time change here in a little bit. That always
screws people up. Yep, you know, our gain, our lost whatever.
But at the end of the day, your body still
has to adjust to these whole things, and you may
be getting up in the middle of the night and
you're tossing and turning. What does that mean to I
(12:38):
need a better mattress? Is the room comfortable? These things?
And I'll come full circle on this because we were
talking about how social media pollutes the brain, and they
tested with AI in it. It's making AI dummer. If
they feeded a steady dye a clickbait, what does that
say about me and you? I think that's the other
thing is do most people who is you know, we
talked about sleep apnean, We've talked about other reasons why
people don't get a good night's sleep, But how much
(13:00):
of this is by you know, just life baggage. You know,
we're consuming news or online and reading all this stuff,
and then you wake up and you start thinking about it,
and then you have this fear and you start getting
this cycle, this mental cycle, and now all of a sudden,
that's where the I alwould say, you know, nighttime, that's
when the demons come out in your head when it's quiet,
and you start thinking fatalist things and horrible things. And
how do you break that cycle? And how much does
(13:21):
that contribute to what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It is a great question because the two things that
we're keying in on here is one the use of
the phone in general. So you have blue light, you know,
shooting into your eyeballs and it's waking up your brain
while you're using it, and so we really want to
turn that off literally at least one hour before bed
with any like any device, tablets, phones, et cetera, to
(13:43):
allow our brains to rest a little bit. And then
you have the issue of well, the content of that
and what it's doing to you and adding to your
stress and anxiety, especially taking in world events, et cetera,
but maybe even your own personal stuff. Right, your brain's
just going and it is hard to calm down. And
a lot of people say, you know, I got to
read before I go to bed, or I got to
get my news in before I go to bed, and
it's actually working for me. You've probably conditioned your brain,
(14:06):
like watching TV before bed, which a lot of people do.
I my best friend falls asleep watching TV every night.
You probably condition your brain to say, oh, that's the TV.
I'm going to go to sleep now, Okay, right, but
you're not going to get good sleep, so your brain's
going to be kind of still going with all of
that stuff still processing it, and then you know you'll
have one of those middle of the.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Night wake ups.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Like you're talking about, everything's quiet, and that's the time
when your brain shows up and has a party. And
so it's really hard to fall asleep when there's stuff,
you know, when you're taking in stuff right before you
go to bed.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
You should tell my wife this, because she'll sit there
and scroll TikTok for like an hour, yeah, and then
go put it down, and she's sleeping in thirty seconds
and sleeps with straight eight hours.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I mean, there's superhumans among us. They're superhumans out there,
and I am definitely not one of them.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I can't, I can't. I get my iPad. But I'm
reading a book, yeah, you know, and something that's like history,
or I'm reading a book about George Remas from Cincinnati
here of all things. And yeah, it takes you know,
for me, I read like a half a chapter and
fall asleep. So I try to find boring topics and
things like that and not to get all worked up.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
And just you know, there's two ways as far as
content goes. So my fiance was reading this boring book
and literally she read two lines every night and she
out and it was you know, it was this like
really scientific book and.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
It works.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
But I prefer actually reading fiction on a on like
a Kindle e reader, so you get a little less
blue light coming out, but there's still some lights are out.
And I read fiction because it just sends me into
like fantasy worlds and I'm in a dream zone.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Now.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Some people will say that you readers do admit the
well they do. They emit some light, so you're kind
of affecting yourself a little bit. So but you know
what's the other way you're going to do it is
have a light above your head right, and that's hitting
their book and now it's hitting your eyebody.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
You like the dark background with the light white light
right is exactly like that that mode or whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
You definitely want nightmode if you're using like one of
those fancy tablets e readers as opposed to like the Kindle.
You know, where are you on melowtonin I So, I
think we're using too much melotone? Right, So the effective
dose is like zero point three to zero point five literally,
and people are dropping like twenty milligrams a night, and
you know it's okay. There you get to a plateau
(16:14):
point where it's just not as effective. So what melatonin
does for us is it says it's nighttime, and that's
all it does. It doesn't say I'm going to keep
you asleep or anything like that. It just sets your
clock and says it's nighttime. Great for like if you've
been working nights or if your sleep's been off a
little bit, just to use sparingly every now and then.
Now I use melotone in kind of a combination with
(16:38):
a couple other things a couple of times, maybe one
or two times a week, but it's usually when I'm
flipping or I haven't had a good sleep and my
body's just thrown off for a whekit. It's fine.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I'm more frequent than that. I probably should back it up,
but I but again, I've noticed so I take like
it's like a three milligram tuble that was too much
for me? I would I like take a third of that? Yeah?
And where'd you feel it was too much? What time
of the day? Like I don't know, Like I didn't
want to wake up, Like I don't feel rested, Like
maybe it's too much of this stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I So I have about a twelve hour period that
I have to give myself where I'm going to be
awake again. Yeah, because I'm going to be groggy as hell.
If I take something even one and a half milligrams,
I'm going to be groggy afterwards. So you kind of
want to take it a little bit earlier. Now the
packaging will say twenty to thirty minutes before you sleep.
I give myself a little more time if I'm only
going to be sleeping eight hours.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah, yeah, now you really want to sleep? You know,
some some nquill four or five of those talamol pms
and a half a like a fifth of Jim Beaman.
You're good. You sleep like not doctor a baby, like
a baby. That's just all right. Doctor Sanjay, he's our
physician health food fitness at Doctor Sanjay Sinci with why
two whys in there? And thanks for coming to this man,
(17:45):
it's great to talk to you. I love the I
love the intersection of medicine and health and just common
sense kind of stuff there. Yeah. I appreciate the timesloan.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It's just it is all one to me, and it
all kind of feeds into each other back and forth,
you know, having a better life while you're awake, will
make you sleep better U versus.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
So it all it's all healthy to me, all right, goodness,
so we'll do. This's on the regular, I think anyway,
Doctor Sanjay, thanks again. We got to get to a
news update. The NBA has apparently falling apart. We have
the mobsters, my people, Laclos and Ostra, Tony Soprano, all
those guys involved in the NBA. What details seconds away
here seven hundred WW Cincinnati,
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