11-24-25 Scott Sloan Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Do you want to be an American?

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Back at it? The Scott Flung Show on seven hundred WLW.
Short week for the holiday, of course, coming off an
awful weekend for sports and since none unless you know
it's Saint Xer team Same Xavier for that manner. It
was one of the biggest stories of the decade back then,
the disappearance and murder of Caitlin Markham. Of course, she
vanished from her Fairfield home in August of twenty eleven.

(00:24):
Two years later, her remains were discovered at a dumb
site Indiana, and her fiance, John Carter, was indited for
murder just two years ago, so that's a full decade
after her disappearance. He pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter and
just before trial he received the three year sentence under
ohiolaw that's the maximum. Now John Carter wants early release

(00:46):
after serving fourteen months of his three year sentence, so
just a little over a year on. That is the
father of the late Caitlin Markham. Dave Markham on the
show on seven hundred WLW. Dave, I'd imagine this news
coming out is the context of the holidays coming It's
it's got to be hard every year for you. And
you know I heard this, I instantly thought of you

(01:08):
and the family. Your reaction, I know what mine was,
But your reaction when you found out John Carter was
seeking early release after serving less than half of a sentence.
What what were your thoughts going through your mind at
that time?

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Actually? I just thought, uh, you know, the the audacity
and the and the arrogance that he just seems to
have that he doesn't you know, he doesn't deserve the
two times three years was not enough as it is,
But I don't know, he just seems to be living
in his own fantasy world that fourteen months and oh, hey,

(01:44):
I shouldn't have to serve time, you know, let me
out early. I've been a good boy, and I just
don't buy any of it. It's uh, it's very shocking.
I guess it's I guess it's expected for him to ask.
They all have that, right. It was really hard to swalloough.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, considering just how dishonesty was. I guess during this
whole process, for lack of a better term, fought everything
tooth and now and now twelve fourteen months later, he
wants out.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, yeah, you said it. He's live from the get go.
He lied to the nine to one one callers, and
he's been lying ever since. The prosecutor wants, you know,
an education, and he wants him to vets up to everything, named, names, places, people,
how he did it. I don't see John doing that.

(02:35):
He hasn't said one thing honest and truthful the entire
fourteen years.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, Mike Bucher kind of laid it out there, floated
the balloon and said, look, if Carter is able to
give us the details, because that has been lacking in
this whole thing. What happened the night she died? Why
do you transport the body where you did put the pieces?
Was anyone else involved? For that matter? If he were
to give a full account, now, would that change your
position on his early.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
You know maybe, No, I don't think so. He would
really really have to come clean and be sincerely honest,
and right now I'm just very doubtful that he can
be honest. So, you know, I'm kind I'm kind of
up in the air. No, don't. I don't want him

(03:25):
out early, And like I said, he'd have to really
do some convincing to get me to agree to let
him out early. And I think that fourteen, fifteen, eighteen
months is not nearly enough time.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
It sure isn't you know. The expression getting away with
murder is well used, for sure, and this certainly applies
here for what he did in his role in not
only just murdering Caitlin, but disposing of the body in
the most heinous fashion available, and then all the other
things that he did to try to cover the crime up.
Serving just three years, let alone fourteen months doesn't seem

(04:04):
like it's enough. But at the same time, Dave Markham,
would you trade his early release for closure knowing exactly
what happened to your daughter back in twenty eleven?

Speaker 3 (04:18):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
You mentioned in court that Carter just won't get out
from under your skin. What's it like the last decade
plus living with this case owner resolved for so long?
We first a decade for an indictment and the plea
deal instead of a trial, and now this early release question.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah, I just can't seem to get away from it.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
You know.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
We went to court Thursday and I thought I was
going to get another answer, you know, deny or approve,
But then we come up with this and I've got
another you know, I've got another court date January ninth.

Speaker 5 (04:54):
I'll be back there again.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
It just seems to still just grab hold and uh,
you know, he doesn't ruin my day, but he sure
does put some put me through some emotions. Here we
go again.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Is it especially difficult day of this happening right before
the holidays? I mean when were the holidays big and
your family with Caitlin and all that.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yeah, obviously it is. It is poor timing. Yeah, it's
a tough time of year every year, and I you know,
I've got this hanging over my head now, and yeah,
it will definitely, uh, it'll definitely pull some emotions on Christmas,
more so than usual, just knowing that a week later,

(05:44):
you know, I'll be back in court trying to get
this thing closed, done, wrapped up, but behind me so
to speak. Yeah, and if John could come up with
some really honesty, then yeah, I'm I have a change
of heart, but I'm very very doubtful that he Yeah,
you can't do that.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
It's kind of a sophie's choice, right. You want him
to spend the maximum. At the same time, you also
want to know what happened to her, to your daughter,
and and at least no and know the whole story,
I guess, and that's what's been missing this whole thing.
I can't imagine what it's like having his name pop
up every so often. Now every time he's up for parole,
you're going to go through this same set of emotions again.
If you would just give up the ghosts, so to speak,

(06:26):
I think it'd be better for you, right.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah, I think, so give it up, be honest, and
then I'll deal with it the way I have to.
But right now it's you know, it's never ending. There's
no there is no closure. It's always always there and
John just keeps, you know, rear in his ugly head
and here it is again.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (06:49):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Dave Markham, dad of Caitlyn Mark, of course, disappeared from
her Fairfield home back in twenty eleven. Ten years later
find out founder remains, and then, of course John Carter
he and fiance indicted murder just two years ago. This
has played out since twenty eleven and now he's asking
for early release from his three year sentence. And that's
why it's only three because of the conditions in which

(07:10):
the confession came about, the involuntary manslaughter play. It means
only gets three years and that's the maxim for that charge,
far less than a murder conviction would have brought. But
in retrospect, with this new information about him wanting out early,
looking back, do you have thoughts about the decision, the
prosecutor's decision to accept that plea deal before trial.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
No.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
You know, there's a lot of circumstantial evidence and that's
what it was in this decision to definitely get you know,
his confession, his admission of guilt. That's something it could
have gone drastically wrong and him been you know, found acquitted,
and I would not have liked that. I would Yes,

(07:55):
I would have liked to have seen him spend thirty
years behind bars. But now I don't. I don't question
the prosecutor's decisions. They've been very fair and honest, and
you know that they want him too. They're they're going
after him. So yeah, I respect him and in their decisions.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
You know, when they went and got the search order,
the search weren't rather at h at the house of
John Carter's mom. There were a dozen items that receives
notes on the investigation, Caitlin's papers, some landscaping material that
they believe was a material that was taken to use
to wrap her body and then dumped in Indiana. There's

(08:36):
an SD card to drawings poetry about death and killing,
and some of those poetry kind of disturbing, uh in
a big way. You may recall some of the words
used by John Carter they found I think written over
the top of like a doorframe. I slit your wrists
with the keys to your heart deep down. I love her.
You ought to kill her, but I love her. She
must die. I can't kill her, Yes you can, No,
you can't.

Speaker 5 (08:56):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
And all these weird writings that certainly in the kate
that he is the guy, and he confessed as such.
And now Carter's mother suggests there's information about the case
that hasn't been discussed publicly. What do you make of
that claim? And is there anything that that would come
out of that?

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Well, you know they they've said it before. Her family
has ye know that there's her side of the you
know John's side of the story, and we don't know everything.
And here it is, that's the whole point of where
we're at, is that speak up, tell your side of
the story, be honest, be fair, that you know they

(09:33):
they talk about not hearing the whole story. Well, they're
the ones that's not talking about it, so yeah, you
know it doesn't make sense to me.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Well, and the other thing too, is you know you
got motive too, because the search warrants, I guess. And
they interviewed to friend police did and the friend of
Caitlin said she was unhappy with Carter's lifestyle, said he
was using drugs heavily, he was into pornography, and she's
I'm no longer attracted him because he's not going anywhere.
She's going to school, it's going to go make something
of her life, getting ready to move out of state
to Colorado. I believe that that seems to indicate that,

(10:04):
you know, it's almost ninety nine times out of one hundred,
it's the person closest to you that's responsible. And this
case that's absolutely.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
True, right. I mean, statistics are it's the spouse, the boyfriend,
the one closest. And you know, I always kind of
felt that Fairfield didn't seem to believe that and go
after John, But here we are. You know, statistics again, Yes,
there was the person closest to Caitlin.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, I mean, if anything, you haven't gotten any honest
answers about her disappearance, what happened to Caitlin? And that's
going to haunt you forever unless John does the right thing.
But there's no indication he's going to do that. If
the judge denies her to a recent January and Carter
serves his full three years, they'll be out in less
than what two years from now? Are you preparing for

(10:51):
that reality?

Speaker 3 (10:56):
No, it is what it is. He's going to be
out eventually someday, and I just hope and pray that
our paths never crossed.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yeah, I fire him. I'd probably get out of the
state and try to go somewhere else, And just at
that point it'll kind of be over for you because
you'll never see him again, hopefully. But you know, thirteen
years later, the healing process has been affected by the timeline,
and and it's dragged out for so long, this whole thing,
and now you're back in court to fight against earl

(11:28):
the release. What do you want the judge to consider
most about this decision he's going to make in January.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
Well, mostly just that you know John's attitude, he has
not felt in a remorse. You know, if he gets
away with murder quote unquote, or he gets ear the
release and it's just a slap on the wrist. If
he doesn't come clean with himself and his honesty in
his own you know, minds and talks and anger, he's

(11:58):
allowable to do it again and that. But that's what
I'm afraid of. You know, he just doesn't he doesn't
take any responsibility and aff that's the case, then he's
liable to do it again. It's happened before.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
I believe he did. I not read. And you may
know more about this than I do. I think you would.
Is that wasn't he didn't have a fiance. He had
a baby and like another one on the way when
he went to jail or at prison.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, he's married now with two children.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Wow. That always amazes me too. If your name's in
the news or something like this, somehow you're attracted. This
guy is the I don't know, like he's an innocent
victim caught up on all this stuff. And you know,
when the evidence has come out, it's pretty clear it
was John Carter. He just won't cooperate with authorities or
give you any relief. And now in January we'll revisit
this again for the empteenth time, and John Carter trying

(12:47):
to get out of jail early after fourteen months after
murdering Caitlin Markham. Do you feel if he does, he's
gotten away with it.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (12:55):
I do.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yeah. I think if he gets released without coming clean,
then he got away with it. And you know, I
sit here and think, just what is he going to
try to say? What is he going to try to
you know, his side of the story. And he's got,
you know, six weeks to figure it out or write
a story or you know, collaborate with whomever. But yeah,

(13:27):
I'm just very curious to find out what he actually
has to say, if anything.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
If he does, do you think he will do knowing
what you know about John Carter.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
I think she'll say something. Yeah, because he wants out.
I'll think he'll do anything to get out.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Well, how much of us, say, did did with meeting
with prosecutor Mike Moser on this one, It's entirely up
to you whether or not you move forward with some
sort of deal to get him out of prison. What
would satisfy you? What would you have to hear?

Speaker 3 (13:57):
I'd have to I've got to have to hear exactly
what he did, who and who. I would like him
to name names. I mean, may be too late to
prosecute because of the statute of limitations, but you know, I
would like to know who so that they get looked
at sideways when they walk by. I don't want to

(14:17):
ruin anybody's reputation, but on this case, you ruin it yourself,
and let's hear it.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Do you believe there was someone else involved with us?

Speaker 4 (14:26):
I do.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
I don't think John could have moved the body himself.
I don't think you had the smarts or you know,
the strength or ability. I certainly do believe somebody else
was involved.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Maybe he'll name names. I don't know why you'd be
loyal if you're in prison already. That's just the nature
of being in prison, I guess. But sadly, now your
your life is again up in the air for the
next month a month and a half before this goes
back to the judge, we'll continue to follow it.

Speaker 5 (14:57):
Dave.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Prayers to you brother. I can't imagine what you're going
through right now.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
All right, Thanks Scott, and I appreciate your continued support.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
All right, take care of my friend.

Speaker 5 (15:06):
Thank you all.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Right, Dave Markham, that's the dad of Caitlin mark. I mean,
I can't help but think getting a little emotional here
thinking about my daughter and the holidays because we all
enjoy spending time together as a family and what that
would be like without someone that special at the table,
especially under the circumstances in which Caitlin disappeared and then
ten years later found out it was murder. And I

(15:27):
think Dave Markham knew that all along. So count your
blessings is thanksgiving right those around you you love, because
you never know. Horrible Scott's Loan Show seven hundred wt
weldo Scott's Loan back on seven hundred got a rough

(15:48):
weekend sports wise, right unless you're a Savior Saint Xavier
or Xavier University. Everything else just sucked. That was I
think to me, that was right up there with the
how long was that? Where you see and Xavier were
in the NCAA tournament both lost, got bounced on the
same day unexpectedly like that one really hurt this one.

(16:09):
Yes this weekend was just like a long, painful goodbye.
F Sea was terrible. Yesterday the Bengals close but no
cigar as usual and What a weird world in which
we live in which all of a sudden, now the
defense is okay and the offense is terrible, And so
goes the drama of the twenty twenty five campaign. I
thought for sure, the way things were lining up, that

(16:30):
Burrow would have started on yesterday. But still, I guess
what I heard was he was still a little sore
from practice this week, so they want to give him time.
Presumably he's going to come back against Baltimore. But at
this point you wonder, are you just risking the franchise
if something happens to him in those two games or
down the line. I mean, what are we playing for
at this point? There's no way you're making the playoffs. Nonetheless,

(16:52):
we've got other stuff going on, and not good news.
Second time of the month, we've had a shooting in
front of Privy on a l and all the victims
are transported by private vehicles. Non life threatening urgents are emergency.
But I guess they blocked out's charter tin and windows fired,
A bunch of shots hit three people, and shots about
of course went off. At this point, you know, I

(17:15):
don't know how much more attention you can play pay
to one place in that you have hired arm security.
I guess in front of this thing. It's not a
good look when all the security personnel in front are
wearing kevlar and carrying weapons with them. Not a good
look for that neighborhood because I know a number of
people who invest down there, and Ryan guys being one
of them of course, but other people with like airbnbs

(17:36):
and like a ton of money in the line. And
you know, now this is twice in a month, and
the concerns are the loud music and the drinking on
sidewalks and fighting, littering and gunplay. Now two shootings in
the same month in front of Privy. At some point
you know clearly there's an element that is attracted to
that particular bar, not the kind of bar probably me

(17:57):
and you go to because if I see someone who
is wearing I don't know, a flak jacket and carrying
a long gun, a long rifle or a side arm,
or wearing bulletproof armor or tactical gear. I look at
that and got I'm quite sure I want to go.
And it's DIFFERENTY go to a football game or basketball
you know you're gonna have armed security there. Obviously off
duty cops and stuff like that, because it's such a
big gathering. But yeah, just to talk about going to

(18:19):
a bar, I look at it and go, yeah, that's
not the risk of me, and some people yet are
attracted there. And you wonder who would be attracted to
go in an environment like that.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
I don't know if the city has the impetus to
shut this place down, but you think with the state
police involvement and everything else, that in electuor control, it'd
be a rather easy thing to do. But we're just
gonna sit around and wait till somebody gets killed, I guess,
and go, yeah, we probably should shut this place down,
all right. So we have this going on. I've been

(18:48):
talking about healthcare because that's the big issue for us
in America at this time, and just wondering what's going
to happen with this deadline coming up end of the year.
The ACA tax credits expire without the extension, about twenty
twenty two million people who will be in trouble and
not have that subsidy covering them. Trump's plan and the
GOP plan is health savings account so you have an HSA,

(19:12):
which is a coup as a credit cards account and
instead of giving the money to the insured, the money
would go right to your account. And the idea is,
instead of giving the money to the insurance companies, you
can on the free market, go out there and decide
where you want to spend your money. Some of that
may be involving a bronze level ACA plan and the
federal money goes in if you're low, especially the lower

(19:32):
income you go, and that covers all that stuff as well.
Rick Scott is trying to label USS the Trump Health
Freedom Account for premium payments and things like that. The
opposition so far from the Democrats has been just not
enough time to implement this before January first. And if
you just extend this a year, we could sit down
and hammer out the finer points of this. And if
that's your plan, and you're gonna move forward with a grade,
and I think you should extend that a year because

(19:55):
too many people are going to fall off here in
just about a month or so. But the idea is
whether it's the ACA, which is all about subsidy subsidy subsidy,
or this plan to pair hsas with brown level plans,
or just have an HSA that the government would give
you money that goes into you buy your own insurance.
The question is is that a good alternative. Well, we
know the ACA subsidies are. It's so here's an analogy

(20:17):
for let me. I love analogies because I'm not particularly bright.
It's just kind of a street smart but not not
necessarily book smart. But it's kind of like if you
gave someone a coupon. Here's instead of healthcare, let's say
it's a it's for a restaurant. Okay, here's the money.
You get a discount coup with the AC. It's a
discount coup on an expensive restaurant. The HSA approach is

(20:40):
like giving someone cash and saying, go figure out where
you want to spend the money. It's a per diem.
So that coupon would allow you to eat at a restaurant,
which is the same as your comprehensive health insurance coverage.
Take that coupon and go health insurance er, go get
a meal somewhere. But the problem is the price of
that menu keeps rising and rising and rising, and in

(21:03):
the healthcare industry, the insurance company in the risk pool
keep the restaurant running. The cash gives you freedom to
choose maybe Okay, hey, I'm gonna buy groceries. I'll go
to Kroger. I'll cook it home, which would be you know,
basic go to I don't know, fast food or something
like that. That's routine care. So the asser every day
kind of like I'm gonna get a check up. It's like,

(21:25):
you know, buying groceries. Okay, so yeah, all right, it's
type out. I gotta afford that. Maybe you have an
elective procedure, and now you've got to pay more for that.
So that's like splourging out a good meal somewhere. But
if all of a sudden, let's say I don't know,
you lose a bet you got, you're like a football.
You got to take like ten people taking your family

(21:47):
out for Thanksgiving dinner or something like that. It's a
five course meal at Boca. Let's say I was in
your forced to have five course meal at Boca. You
can't afford that, and that's kind of like cancer treatment
or major surgery, and that cash is gonna rot pretty quick.
So the problem is if enough people stop going to
the restaurant because they're trying to stretch their cash, the
restaurants will close down and that leaves people with pre

(22:09):
existing conditions nowhere to eat at all. And so I
guess the way I look at it is it doesn't
seem to me like either of these things solve the
real problem, and the problem is why is the restaurant
charging one hundred dollars for a hamburger in the first place.
Neither the certainly not the Democrats plan and the Obamacare
subsidies answer that question, and neither is this. So what's

(22:32):
the difference if I give them money to insurance companies
or you give me the money and I give them
to insurance companies. It's the fact. And the other fact
of the matter is too. What's really not working with
ACA is the fact that younger people are seeing their
premiums or eyes and going, oh, I'm perfectly healthy. I'm
in my twenties. Remember this whole scheme was highly dependent
on younger people getting insurance, and more and more younger people,

(22:54):
as they get squeezed, are saying, hey, listen, I'm perfectly healthy.
I'm my twenties, maybe early thirties, whatever, and I'm not
seeing the signs of living my life the way I
live it, or just hereditary or just random illness causing me.
I just can't justify this. I was talking to someone
in their late twenties over the weekend said, yeah, I

(23:14):
was on it for a while, and I just I
don't see the point because I never go to the doctor,
but i'm the premiums keep going up. I can't afford
it for something I don't use. I'll throw And then
what that means is God forbid. Something happens and you're sick,
you show up to the hospital and you have to
be treated. By law, it can't turn you away. And
now who's going to pay that bill? You look at
it and go, wow, I've got a eighty thousand dollars

(23:37):
hospital bill and I'm being generous here for something that
was outside of my controller. Maybe it was and accidents happened,
I didn't have insurance. They've got to treat me. And
now I've got a file for bankruptcy or I'm going
to pay them I don't know, thirty bucks a month
for the rest of my life. It's just not sustainable.
And the more premiums go up, the more people, especially
younger people who we need in the system because it's

(23:59):
depending done the young feeding the old. They're just fading away,
or give me the option go, well, I'm not going
to pay for this anymore. Remember there's going to be
a mandate that everyone had to pay for it, and
there's a pushback on that rightly, So you know it's
so you know, neither one of these ways. And then
with the Republican plan with giving you the money in
your own account, great, I can go shop on the market.
But I guess if I went to my doctor for

(24:22):
a checkup or a dental visit or something, that that's great.
But the problem is when something catastrophic happens, if I
get sick. I mean, I had a surgery on my foot,
and you know, I hit my deductible for the year,
but you're still talking thousands of dollars. Most people don't
have that, and you know you have to have it
done because you can't be limping around or you know,

(24:43):
break a bone something like that. It's just it's just
a horrible situation. So you know, the idea here that
we're gonna here's our play. Our plan is to do
the same thing, only it's going to look different. I
just don't get what that's going to do for you.
Why are the costs so freaking high in the first
place is what we have to look at and then
address the problem from there. But you're not going to

(25:04):
do that in a month. That's for dang. Sure. I
love the idea of giving you more direct control over
your healthcare spending and removing the insurance company, your medias
from the subsidy flow. And yeah, that could increase price
transparency and shopping behavior and all those things, and it
gets sort of bureaucracy. That's all well and good, but again,
the structural issue is the fee for service payment models

(25:25):
and centivized volume over value. There's the drug prices. Of course,
there's negotiating there. We're seeing hospitals because of the model
we have here consolidate to reduce competition, and there's no
mechanism to control that. Growth is a real problem. It
just continues to do more of the same, which is
redistributing subsidies. It's just more subsidy. It's just kind of

(25:47):
an old idea. And by the way, I think Medicare
Part B jumps like almost ten percent. We're seeing employer
coverage seeing its highest cost increases in the last fifteen
years ago ours went up. And if you're going to
make this truly affordable. You've got to talk about provider pricing,
you talk about drug cost, administrative costs system, and efficiencies.
This doesn't do any of that stuff. And so when

(26:10):
I see that there's this quote unquote maga revolt going on.
To some degree, we saw what happened with the Epstein
file release, where the GOP leaders, other than what one
one person said, we're gonna want the we want all
this release, Trump had no choice to go, Okay, let's
release these records. We saw what happened with Marjorie Taylor
Green over the weekend on Friday announcing her resignation effective

(26:31):
first of the year. Now, granted she does that right
after her her pension kicks in, which is pretty good
score for her and fireing that line of work. I'd
probably do the same thing. But again, we're back to
making America great again, and none of this is doing that.
So she has legitimate beef, especially with someone she supported
with her own time and effort out on the campaign
trail for two terms, banging the drum for Donald Trump,

(26:53):
and then the minute she's at the Epstein thing and
some other other issues, of course, and now she's dead
to him. So you wonder kind of like where this
is all going. I think this is another thing. It's like, Hey,
we're supposed to be fixing these great problems, which is
why we elected you, and so far the economy isn't
doing what we promised, and certainly when it comes to
healthcare and other issues, this is a big plan. I mean,

(27:15):
you've had fifteen years to come up with something, and
the something is we're just going to continue to what
we're doing. Why is healthcare so much so damn expensive?
And neither side, neither Republicans nor Democrats want to address
the real issue here, and that is huge part of
the problem. And I think you're going to see another
starting to field, another shift going on, going all right.
I don't think Democrats will really have a plan. I

(27:36):
don't know what kind of leadership they have. Maybe GAVI
and do some I don't know. You've got socialists at
the White House. I'm not sure what the hell's got.
I don't know who to believe anymore. I think that's
the problem.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
Right.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
We'll get a time out in more to follow on
this Monday morning, hopefully a short week for you, with
Thanksgiving on the horizon. They can't take our turkey. With
that we have, they can't take our turkey away. Pride
that drumstick from my cold dead hands. Scott's loan seven
hundred wi a Scott's loan, This is seven hundred WLW.

(28:07):
So our big sports weekend, it was a big sports fail.
That was horrible week. Evert everything lined up like this
is going to be great, right, started out with so
much hope and promise or at least one local team
went anyway, And on Friday that would be uh Saint
X beating Elder and what twenty thousand people at pay

(28:29):
Corps on a chilly, misty, rainy kind of night. That's great.
Great Atmosphogot. I was not there, but I know a
number of people that were, and everyone's absolutely just blown
away with how good it was because you know, the
ribbon boards had if sant exit score, they had the
blue and purple of the Elder, and it was just
an action packed game, certainly in the first quarter was unreal.

(28:53):
But also the fact that they had video and video
replays up as well, and they went all in and
had all the you know, usual scoreboard operator and behind
the scenes teams working as they would a Bengals game.
The bad takeaway of this is because we're so used
to it watching the Bengals and NFL football, is that
you have multiple replays, you have officials on the field,

(29:13):
you have automatic reviews, booth reviews, and everything else right,
so you want to get it right, even though there
are at least a couple of plays a weekend looks
like where they got it wrong. Nonetheless, it's we expect perfection,
we demand perfection. The problem with that is when you
apply that the technology to high school, it doesn't work

(29:33):
because I was told there are a number of plays
where you know, these are high school officials officials on
an NFL field, they're not NFL officials. You have high
school officials. They're going to get wrong. I mean, it's
the way it used to be before technology. Right refereed
below the call and get mad at the referee. But
that was consistent whether it's NFL college or high school.

(29:55):
And so now we have that collegiate, but especially the
NFL expectation at a place like pay Corps where they're
replaying they're showing the replace here from multiple angles and
pretty clearly guys out of bounds, he dropped the ball whatever,
and in high school you just you don't have the
benefit of instant replay, and so the officials are being
held to a much higher standard than out of control
of and we're so used to like, oh, yeah, clearly

(30:16):
he was juggling the bull, Clearly he was down. Clearly
he was out of bounds.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
And when they missed that call, you're like, well, what
the hell, look at look at the score. But well
we can't. We're not allowed to look at that and
review it. That's how high school athletics work. So I
don't if we should do that in the futures, have
instant replay. But I'm a big proponent saying, listen, we
ought to have more games during the season at the
pay or that was awesome. I don't know if you
can do what they did on Friday night, and what
are you know what the break even point would be

(30:40):
for an event like that, because let's face it, you
can't have two you know, smaller schools. And obviously the
passionate san X and Hellill bring it of course, you know,
without saying when they meet up, it's always big, it's
always a huge game. It's always happened. But I think
the are the games that you would think of that
certainly would rise to that level and you get huge
crowds for it, so but then maybe consider for the
next time you do it. It's like, yeah, maybe I

(31:01):
don't know as much as the crowd would want to
see the replays and the you know, the highlights, like
that's probably not good for the game and officiating because
it just great, say a lot more tension than you
would have normally just saying just saying, uh. Coming up
at ten, I was seven on the show Doctor Stephen
Vegans is the medical director Hamilon County Public Health. Couple
things going on right now. One of them would be RSV.

(31:23):
The other flu. I don't know if you heard this.
We're having a particularly difficult RSV season, especially for younger
and older patients. But I'm a I religiously get the
flu shot every year and I got one last year,
and I still think I got the flu. Now. It
was pretty I thought it was pretty bad because it
was I was three days I was down, and normally
that's like a week or so. So it does have

(31:44):
an effect even if they miss and okay, well, you
know once in a while we get that where the uh,
the current dose and the current vaccine does not match
up with what the current threat is because the nature
of you know, developing it and seeing what's happening. Well,
we won't get no more with vegans in the middle.
But this flu season is supposed to be as bad,
if not worse than last year, I believe it or not,
because we have yet another mutation that happened after the

(32:07):
vaccine came out was in production. So whether or not
you get it or not, I mean, I'm I've had
it for a long time. I haven't had a problem
with it myself, and I wonder how many times I
would would have gotten the flu. And if you have
the flu, it's like it's a week, it's it's pretty bad.
And last year I got it, I had a vaccine
on it. Not only I guess conventional wisdom post COVID

(32:29):
is that, well, see this is it doesn't work. This
is why you shouldn't take it put that in your body.
I don't know, I've been doing it for thirty years.
Look at it and go, oh, only times I prevented it.
But the other thing is it still gives you a
little bit of protection against the virus. So you're saying, well, dummy,
you just got sick last year and you had the shots,
so it doesn't matter. Yeah, But I as bad as

(32:49):
I felt, I couldn't I couldn't imagine how much worse
it would be had I not get some sort of
antigens in my bloodstream. That's my that's me. You may
be different. I'll leave it at that. Vegans is next.
He's the medical director Hamil County Public Health. This where
things stand headed in the cold and flu season. Still
not too late to get that flu shot. It might
help you a little bit anyway, And we'll find out

(33:10):
how much from the man himself right after news on
the Home of the Best Bengals coverage seven hundred ww Cincinnati.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Want to be an American?

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Kick it off the holiday season this week seven hundred
WWT Scott's Loan Show. And of course with that is
seeing friends and associates, coworkers, family and others. And that
means to come in close contact. And it is also
the start of the hey, I'm going to get six season.
Some of u's already had a start on this one.
Hamlin County is seeing a rise in pediatric RSV hospitalizations

(33:39):
and usually early in the season. The other thing you
need to know is that for the second consecutive year,
it looks like this flu season is going to be
pretty bad. That's because of a new mutation. On the
show on seven hundred, WW is the medical director of
Hamlin County Public Health, doctor Stephenvegans. Good morning, how are you?

Speaker 4 (33:56):
Thanks? Got good morning? How are you?

Speaker 2 (33:58):
I'm well today tomorrow?

Speaker 4 (34:00):
Not this link.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, I'm well today tomorrow. I don't know. We'll find
out here. Good to have you back, and I know
you're really busy. Thanks for taking time out. So first
of all, let's start with the RSV thing. We're seeing
a rise number of hospitalizations unusually early this year. What's
driving that.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
Well, Urcity is one of the big three restaurerts and
dicial bars, COVID and influenza uh, and it disproportionately impacts kids,
basically very young and so you know we've last year
we saw a pretty significant RC season in children. This
year we actually sat a little bit earlier. So typically
all this season starts, you know, after October one, towards Thanksgiving.

(34:40):
We started seeing cases in September. Why is that? It's
probably just a combination of a bunch of stuff, kids
being out and about as well as adults. So and
there's a there's some now now some vaccines for mothers
so that the kid doesn't get RCV as well as
older adults. But yeah, it's just a part of the
respiratory season. And we're saying it especially especially as we

(35:03):
go into the holidays.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Okay, it hits our elderly people just as likely to
get RSV as a child.

Speaker 4 (35:12):
Yeah, and so in fact it impacts the very young
and the very old. And that's why these are these
vaccines are now out for you know, age seventy five
and upright, it's fifty enough. And so all the stuff
that you find yourself in the hospital for even to
some extent fluence restaports and fishial bars. And so you've
got the young that may be impacted by the old,

(35:34):
and the old that may be impacted by the young.
And so the important thing is to wash your hands,
do all that stuff. You're gonna let this hold you.
But also if you are eligible, there's some vaccinations now
in the last two years.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yeah, how does that present? By the way, it's art
because you know, I don't know what we called it
back in the day, but it seems like a it's
another one that there's no illnesses. You guys in Hamlin
County Health made up. No, we didn't make it up.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
You know.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
The key it vegans. It's all about marketing.

Speaker 4 (36:02):
Yeah, well we just report right, but it's it's like
a lower respiratory track, so you know the cold. Uh,
the typical coronavirus is upper restory. Cause that.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
We're losing your cell you there, Doctor Stephen Fagin's into
the lungs. Yes, oh we're losing her. We lost you
there for a minute.

Speaker 5 (36:24):
Oh, sorry about that.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
Yeah. So viruses that can kind of get down in
the lungs are the ones you got to kind of
worry about. And so that's when you you know.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Kind of cutting. Now you're cutting your cot. I'll pause
for a second. Maybe you can get another bar on
your phone. There, it's doctor Stephen Fagan's medical director, Hamlet
County Public Health. With the cold weather now here, the
wet weather, and of course being around family and friends
and big crowds as we like to do during the holidays,
and then being inside of course as an element of
this thing too or see an RSV cases hospitalizations spike already.

(37:01):
We know that it is deadly and children especially if
it's left untreated. And we're talking about the warning signs,
So are you saying, is it cough, is it fever?
Is both of those?

Speaker 4 (37:10):
Yeah, it's mostly fever as well as cough. And so
you know, if you're very young, and they always tell
you if you have a feed you need to go
to hospital, especially if you're in that first month of life,
and so those first six months are very susceptible and
that that's the kind of the problem that you'll see.
And you also that's why you have those bulbs to
clear out the nose from all the congestion as well,

(37:30):
so you can kind of reade that. Yeah, fever and
cough is what the first start can be, gotcha.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of the upper respiratory. Having
one of those nasal rinses, the netty pop things work
pretty much kind of gross, but especially in an allergy season.
I use it not often, but pretty much you're around
if I'm a little bit stuff, you just kind of
clean the pipes out a little bit. So we have RSV,
but we also have the flu too, so let's talk
about that. I think that's the one that's going to
affect a lot more people, it's a so explain how

(38:01):
the flu vaccine works. People go, well, let's why I
don't get the vaccines because it doesn't work. It's not
worked last year, it's not going to work this year.
Why can't they get this right? It'd be the typical
question that gets asked, how do you answer that?

Speaker 4 (38:13):
Yeah, So the flu vaccine prevents you from having bad flu,
finding yourself in the hospital or find yourself in the
emergency department. The reason employers like you to get the
flu vaccine. It also keeps you able to work, and
so it doesn't decrease transmission, although it can some, but
it doesn't really decreases just how bad the flu is
when you get it.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, And also we look at what is happening half
a world away, right whereas now summer, you know, on
the other half Australia, for example, we look and see
what diseases they get in the winter and go, okay,
that's going to be part of our annual vaccine here
in America. And sometimes now two years in a row,
we missed a mutation. In this case, it's called the
H three and two. What is that?

Speaker 4 (38:56):
Yeah, so we characterized by H or even gluten or
in neuromenidase, and so it's the hema gluten that helps
the virus get into the cell, and that's what you
vaccinate against. The neuromenidase is what the TAMA flu and
anti viarl's work against. And so we're always looking to
see if the h part changes in arch of the

(39:18):
typical year when they have to decide what's the vaccine
going to have in it because it takes six months
to produce, you look at the southern hemisphere like Australia
to see what it's going to be like for up here,
and so between summer and going into fall, it looks
like yes, there was not just a small but a
pretty significant change actually changing from one subclaim to another.

(39:39):
As you mentioned previously, United Kingdom is seeing a significant
flu season. Japan of the places saw a significant flu season,
and we did have a big a three into flu
season last year, one of the biggest months they had
in five years here both locally and nationally. So who
knows what's coming up? We'll see right right, are you

(40:00):
what's the scoreboard saying right now? I know you have
the tracker the gateway on your website, but does it
look like it's going to be a particularly bad flu
season again. Well, and actually what we're showing is a
lower hostilization rate for influenza than the five year average
would show. But the reason for that is that the

(40:20):
High Department of Health change their data to something called
Clinton Sinc October one, and so we're not sure. We
think it's reporting lower than actual because if you go
to actual hospital, we're higher than what we typically were
over the five year average. So we have a little
bit of data reporting issue. Subjectively, it looks like we're higher,
but we are reporting slightly lower. Right now.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
The vaccine better for kids or adults.

Speaker 4 (40:45):
It's best for both six months and up. Go get one.
It's about fifty percent effective, which doesn't sound like much,
but it does a lot if you're feeling bad against hospitalization,
er visits and having bad flues.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Well, we see at some point a combined combined vaccination
doctor Stephen Fagin's where you get the flu and an
RSV in the same one.

Speaker 4 (41:06):
Now, probably not that there's a potential combined covid and
flu vaccine, but I will tell you if you're an
adult and you qualify, you can get RSC vaccine Influenza
vaccine and COVID vaccine all at the same time. It'd
be a good thing to do before the holiday.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
How we do it on covid By the way, we've
talked about RSV and the flu. I mean, obviously COVID
was major headlines five years ago but diminishing ever since.
Is that like a false sense of security?

Speaker 4 (41:33):
Well still here, still puts feature in the hospital, not
as much as it did. It's almost something that we
kind of we kind of deal with. We do have
some antivirals, just like flu. If you do have a
positive COVID test, it's good to start the anti viral
within two days of the first symptoms. But it's it's
still here. It's one of the big three that we
that we monitor.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
But it's not we're not seeing the fatality rich because
we've all lot they heard immunity.

Speaker 4 (41:59):
We got some immunity less combination combination vaccine and prior
evaccine and stuff, and it's mutating less fast than it
used to, and so that's also well. And so we
do have the experience and it's just one of the
viruses now. We definitely definitely don't see the fatalities that

(42:19):
we saw with this when it first started.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Which we kind of do, but five years ago much different.
We're in a much different spot at that time. How
much of that immunity has to do with the vaccine
versus natural resistance and the herd immunities I.

Speaker 4 (42:32):
Mentioned, Yeah, probably a combination of both. You know, the
vaccine probably has its effectiveness like flu for the first
three to six months, and then it gradually comes off.
And so it's probably more previous affection immunity right now
than vaccine immunity. But there is a good combination of both.
And if you're a certain age or have a lot
of comorbidities, you know, it's a good idea to go

(42:53):
ahead and get that COVID vaccine to boost that.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Is it like RSV in a way that the young
and very old are the ones that really need to
get accident.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
Inno sense, Yeah, you probably can drop that age range
around fifty or so for COVID, but nonetheless that's exactly right. Yeah,
the American pediatrics will say that from six months to
two years, they're recommending the COVID vaccine for kids.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
I know that Texas is dealing with a very severe
whooping cough upraiss like I think four times higher than
the national average or something like that. Why Texas, And
are you seeing any of those upticks in protests here
in the Tri State?

Speaker 4 (43:30):
Yeah, we are and we continue to see that. And
Protestis is a bacteria and it's a vaccination. That's what
teed app tatness dipteria a cellar Protestas is vaccinated for.
But the vaccine kind of wanes over time, and you
do treat it with zpac. It's just from isen and
if it's a reportable condition. So if we see a
kid with protessas, we will actually treat other members of

(43:52):
the family their home.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, because as a child, you might get this if
you're not vaccinated or not on the schedule yet. But
of course as you get older, you don't get vaccine
as often, and so that makes older people where the
vaccine has worn off, it affects them.

Speaker 4 (44:10):
Yeah, it does. And you won't get the big whoop
of a cough that you do when you're older that
you know, you characteristically know that barking cough if you've
ever heard it. But you do get pretty, you know,
pretty sort of bress. You got enthizin or asthma or something.
It can it can pass it even more. And so
it's not about it I diea sometimes you get the t down.
It is recommended if you go travel. That's a travel vaccine.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Okay, Yeah, there's a lot of things I get. I
mean nice for when I travel abroad, that's for sure,
because a lot of nafty things out the world. Doctor
Stephen Figin's medical director Hamilt County Public Health. We're seeing
spike and RSV cases here among the young and older people.
But it's going to be a rough season for that
as well as the flu because we have a mutuded
strain that came out since the vaccine was developed six

(44:52):
months ago. It's it's causing hospitalization rates to spike in
the UK, Canada, Japan, Australia and the other half the world.
And so expect a bad flu season. Not too late
to get that flu vax or the RSV by the.

Speaker 4 (45:05):
Way, right, absolutely get it now. You can get them
together and you know, the shared decision making it's discussed
about talking with your pharmacists qualifies. The attestation of a
you know, comorbidity to get one or more of the
vaccines is a self attestation. And so if you feel
like you really would benefit from that. Go to your

(45:26):
local pharmacy and talk with them.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, and that makes make sense, and it really you know,
you can get right in these days too, because are
we seeing a decrease in the number of people people
getting vaccinations? What do you attribute that to?

Speaker 4 (45:39):
Well, all kinds of stuff and that the various hesitancy
and things like that. But we still feel a fair
bit of confidence in the vaccine. And you talk to
people and like, do you want to get this vaccine?
They may not want to, but they think other people should.
And so you know, there's still a high confidence. And
there are lower rates for a lot of reasons, and
you probably talked about most of them.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yeah, And it seems to me like all vacs. It's
weird because we had COVID, and granted it was controversial.
We developed the fast dressed and thing and people went
and I get it. You know, I'm not going to
put that in my body.

Speaker 5 (46:10):
You know.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
I read, I read what was about and how you
developed and said, Okay, I'm gonna I'd rather take my
risk with a vaccine than take up my risk with
COVID because I knew people actually got sick and died
from COVID who were normally healthy people. You just don't
know how your body is going to react. I had
it a couple of times and I'm fine, but someone
else may give us perfectly healthy and wind up passing.
And this was in you know, twenty twenty, twenty twenty one.

(46:31):
Since then, we've learned a lot about this. But it
seems like because of that vaccine hesitate with COVID that's
now spread to other vaccines. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 4 (46:40):
You know, good ass, and we're actually last year we
dropped alow fifty percent for pediatric influenza vaccination. Forty nine
percent pediatric kids got vackcin to against influenza. In addition
to the biggest influenza season we had last year, there
were two hundred and eighty seven pediatric deaths eighty seven.
That's the highest in two thousand and four, and half

(47:03):
of those kids were totally healthy, had nothing else going on.
I ended up dying from the flu. So it's still
there and it's still important to get the vaccine.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yeah, gotcha. When you guys monitor, do you put all
this stuff on your dashboard or the Hamlet County Public
Health website? What the data is it's interesting how you
collect that. Could you take us through where those numbers
come from and how you get your accuracy?

Speaker 4 (47:27):
Yeah, so for rest of ours is it's hospitalization. So
that's the one thing you clearly know if you're in
the hospital and you have a positive test, you definitely
know you have it. And so it's the one. So
it's for RC COVID influenza that data Hall hospitals are
required to report and they report up electronically through the
Ohio Department of Health and we get that data from
the High Department of Health and that's how we get that.

(47:49):
We report it locally report Hambleton County south Ofst. Ohio
as you see on the website, but it does come
through ODH, which is anytime there's a glitch or anything
in that reporting, there's a delay or possibly an underreporting
of the numbers. We think that's happening now for this month,
and we're working to reconcile that.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Yeah, I gotcha. The other thing too is you guys
look at wastewater treatment plants.

Speaker 4 (48:12):
Right, yeah, you do, and so here locally there's three
wastewater plants that are monitoring mostly for COVID nationally to
monitor flud polio as well as RSV. The thing about
RSV SCOTT is, for the most part it's the kids
that shed who are putting it in a diaper, who
doesn't go to the wastewater. So it's a little bit

(48:34):
of underreporting. But you could, you know, get some trend
from adult RSC. We don't measure RSC locally though.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
That's incredible how granular you can get into the details
what's in our wastewater right?

Speaker 4 (48:46):
Well, and there is one case of polio not here
but in New York, and it picks it up in
the wastewater. It is an absolutely amazing technology.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
How do you know it's uh, how do you pick
out one case out of some water?

Speaker 4 (48:59):
Well, there had to be more than one case, And
so you pick up the little sipe in the DNA.
Not only did they know it was polio, they know
it was wild type meaning not vaccine associated polio, which
is amazing.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
That is incredible. How much there's just gotta be so
much information out there that's noise. On top of if
you're getting down the world a couple of cases of
polio and a sample of wastewater, there's gonna be a
ton of other interesting data you pull out of there.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
Well, yeah, I mean, but Pablo is very unique DNA
and it's like CSI, you know, in terms of DNA testing,
and it's amazing. The guys that do this are super
geeks and they really go on and on about it.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
I bet. Yeah. It's always a fascinating dinner discussion when
the when the guys who look through wastewater and the cowboy,
it makes me want to order a second round.

Speaker 5 (49:46):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Doctor Stephen Fagin's is here. He is a medical director
Hamlin County Public Health. Expect a bigger RSV season, a
bigger flu season as well. COVID numbers should be about
the same we expect or more.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
Yeah, so far, so good. Probably a little uptick, you know,
around Christmas or so. That's why we started basically looking
at the big three altogether respiratory virus season and what
is the impact, mostly around hospitalizations, and mostly so we
can know how many beds do we need or how
much capacity do we need as a region.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Gotcha, what's going to keep you awake at night here
for the next few months this season?

Speaker 4 (50:24):
You know everything? God, but I do. I am concerned
about this shift in subclade for a three into for
influenza and just what that might mean, because you know
that's they call it vaccine evasion, which means that our
immune invasion, so previous immunity or vaccine immunity you know,
isn't doesn't work nearly as well. When that human glutin

(50:45):
thing really changes, that could make a big difference. And
we could see an even more significant flu season this
year than we did last year. And the vaccine still works.
Vaccine still helps. It may not be, you know, as
much as as it typically might, but it definitely does
health as well as covery calls wash your hands and
do what your grandmother told me to do.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
And advice is still to wash your damn hands and
cover your mouth when you sneek. Yeah, it's it's I
mentioned before you came on and I got the flu
last year. I have to get the vaccine every season,
and I hit me and somebody said, hey, you know, Slan,
why are you getting the vaccine? It doesn't work. I'm like,
I'm thinking, but if I was, if I've got that
crappy for three days, I could have I'd probably been
in the hospital if I didn't have the vaccine to

(51:28):
at least help my body deal with us. So you
even get you do get some protection and some of
those proteins in your body. Even if you they wind
up miss guessing and we have some sort of mutation
like we have this year.

Speaker 4 (51:40):
Right, oh my gosh. Yeah, And then you know, the
flu vaccine really kind of only works for about five
to six months. That's why you get one every year.
That's why you kind of time it so that you
sort of you know, certainly two weeks before the holiday.
He's got two weeks to have the impact. And it
definitely works, and get one every year. There's a medicine
called him Solues that also work, but you have to

(52:01):
take it within forty hours of the start of symptoms.
But you always know when flu stars it is a
sudden fever, feeling bad. You know time that that occurred,
so it's a little bit easier to time the medication, gotcha. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
You know people go, oh yeah, the stomach flu for
a day, Well, that's not the flu. That's something entirely gasting, rise,
something entirely different. You have the flu. You know you
had the flu. It's a good solid week of feeling
a feeling like you've been over by a school bus.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
Well, and there is a virus called neuro virus the
winter vomiting signal, and so that's another varus you see
in the winter. And we had a pretty significant neauro
virus season last year as well. But that's upper GI
just like up restory upper gif. You're vomiting. You know,
it's irritating the stomach. You haven diary, you know it's
irritating the colon.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Right right, all right, useful information and this is why
we do it at a ten ten thirty because it's
far enough between breakfast and lunch is to not nausey
your further Dutch. Stephen Fagan's medical director Hamlin County Public Health.
Always appreciate you coming on. Thanks for the time.

Speaker 4 (53:05):
Thank you, scot Care.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
All right, well there you go. You got your information
for Warner's four Arms, Scott's Loan Show with News and
three on seven hundred WW. Everyone needs help every now
and then, and she's here to help us get our
heads right.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
This is Mental Health Monday with mental health expert Julie Hattershire.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
All right, the holidays are coming up. We start with Thanksgiving.
You know what that means. That means fighting, That means
pies getting thrown across the room, ceilings full of mashed potatoes,
picking pieces of cranberry out of the paintings on the wall,
clocks that are filled with the guts of turkeys because
people just don't get along, damn it. It makes you

(53:44):
want to eat Thanksgiving dinner by yourself. Julie hattershre welcome back,
are you?

Speaker 4 (53:50):
I'm fine.

Speaker 6 (53:50):
I'm laughing at what you just said. That sounds like
a middle school food fight.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Probably. I've bet there's plenty of households at the vault
into that. It's like an episode of Landman. Every time
they sit down they eat, the food's getting thrown around.
It's unbelievable, But that's true for a lot though. It's like, Man,
you get around relatives you only see maybe during the holidays,
maybe once a year or maybe twice a year, and
there's a sense of dread out there. There's a lot

(54:14):
of people that dread Thanksgiving or Christmas.

Speaker 7 (54:18):
There are a lot of people, yeah, yeah, that dread
the holidays for that very reason.

Speaker 8 (54:23):
People they don't.

Speaker 7 (54:24):
See very often and don't actually have a lot in
common with or even enjoy the company of that they
have to.

Speaker 8 (54:28):
Spend time with.

Speaker 4 (54:29):
It can be hard.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
What drives that.

Speaker 7 (54:33):
Well, I mean, you know you choose your friends, right,
You don't choose your coworkers, and you don't choose your family,
but you do choose people to spend time with.

Speaker 6 (54:42):
And so if family, if family are the people.

Speaker 7 (54:46):
You're spending the holidays with, and you don't you don't
like them, you don't have a lot in common with them,
They find.

Speaker 6 (54:52):
You annoying, you find them annoying.

Speaker 8 (54:55):
It can be really it can.

Speaker 7 (54:57):
Cause this sense of dread and taste for the holidays
make you want to spend them by yourself, maybe because
that's a little bit easier than going home wherever you're
going for the family holiday.

Speaker 4 (55:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
I always love it when you know, I don't know,
you get one of your cousins of sech extended family
in there and it's at some point, you know, she's
going to bring about the topic of a genocide in Gaza,
which is always uplifting holiday talk.

Speaker 7 (55:20):
That sound Yeah, isn't it lovely that people will do
that at the holidays with everybody around. So if you
have people like that who you know are going to
want to talk about things you don't want to talk about,
doing a little prep work ahead of time can be
really really helpful for you.

Speaker 6 (55:36):
So the first thing that.

Speaker 7 (55:37):
I recommend people do is you're probably going to know
who those people are at the event who are likely
to go places conversationally that you don't want to go,
unless it's everybody, in which case you.

Speaker 8 (55:49):
Might want to sit this one out, but there are.

Speaker 6 (55:50):
Probably a few people who are likely to do that.

Speaker 7 (55:53):
I recommend that you prep a few alternative topics of
conversation specific to each one of those people, and even
maybe write them down and stick them in in a
card in your back pocket or whatever that you can
go to the restroom and figure out, Okay, what am
I going to talk to Aunt Susie about because she's
going off on politics again.

Speaker 6 (56:10):
Oh yeah, they just renovated their kitchen.

Speaker 8 (56:12):
Let me ask her about that when I get back
out there.

Speaker 7 (56:15):
So you can prep some pivot topics ahead of time
specific to the person so that you don't feel like
you're caught in a trap.

Speaker 8 (56:22):
You can you have a way out, you have a
door out.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Okay, God, it makes sense. I you know, I was
just thinking. It's just talked about this too. There's a
great marketing opportunity, you know, if if we ever want
to get cigarette smoking back in the fold, this is
a good time to take it up because you just go, hey, yeah,
I'm gonna go grab a smoke and it Yeah, I'm
gonna go and just and just stand out there for
you know, even like fake cigarettes they sell the good

(56:46):
fake ones on looks like you're burning a you know,
you're burning a dart, and you know it's okay, and
people don't want to be around that they see the smoke.
I'm my god, I can just keep going out there
doing that. Take your little you know, five ten minute break.

Speaker 6 (57:00):
I love that idea.

Speaker 7 (57:01):
I have clients who have a very politically divided family
and this year, the rule is you can talk politics
at Thanksgiving, but you have to do it outside. And
they live in a very cold part of the country, and.

Speaker 8 (57:13):
So they you can talk politics, but you have.

Speaker 7 (57:16):
To talk them outside of the house. You can't talk
about them in the house. And so anybody who feels
compelled to do that has to go stand out in
the cold.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
That's a good way to do it. You get you
get in time out outdoor time out is what's happening.

Speaker 7 (57:28):
I love that exactly, That's exactly what you get and
it's going to shorten the time you do it because
it's going to be really chilly and windy at night.
And so they that's how they've decided to do it.

Speaker 8 (57:37):
Last year they try to know politics Thanksgiving. That didn't work.

Speaker 6 (57:40):
This year, they say.

Speaker 7 (57:41):
Politics are fine, but you have to do it outside
of the house.

Speaker 6 (57:44):
And I will be curious to see how that goes.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
Is that the big one from your house, most peoples,
is the big one? Politics? People are talking well, I
would say just I think we're all, even those on
the extreme side of it, they seem would you seem
like we're so exhausted and frustrated that I don't know
if it's going to be as bad as it's been
in years past.

Speaker 7 (58:04):
I wonder about that too, because I think we've all
kind of realized that we're not going to change the
opinions of people who aren't flexible. Right, no matter which
side of the political spectrum you're on, if you've got
somebody who's on the very far other side, nothing you
can say or do is going to change their perspective
or their mind. If you've got people who are more centrist,

(58:26):
and you can have a more reasoned conversation that that
might be worth doing if you feel like they're reasonable
people and you can have a nuanced conversation.

Speaker 6 (58:34):
But if you are on one end of these other
people are.

Speaker 7 (58:36):
On the other end, nobody's going to change your mind
and you're not going to change theirs.

Speaker 6 (58:39):
So let's move on to other things.

Speaker 7 (58:41):
I think there are a lot of people who are
pragmatic like that.

Speaker 6 (58:44):
I also think there are a lot of people who
are really.

Speaker 7 (58:47):
Staunchly grounded in their beliefs and feel like it is
not only their right but their responsibility to try to
convert others. So I do think politics is one. I mean,
there are.

Speaker 8 (58:58):
All the usual topics. Religion is another one. What's going on.

Speaker 7 (59:02):
With your kids, how they're ruining their own lives is
another one. There are so many hot topics for people.
It varies by family, and so just knowing what yours
are and what your particular sensitive spots are and then
having some strategies if those come up, to be able
to manage them effectively, I think is the best you
can do.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
Julie Hattish share our licensed mental health therapist on The
Scot's Loan Show on seven hundred wo to a mental
health Monday, and we're talking about the looming Thanksgiving holiday,
which is great for all of us, most of us anyway,
but sometimes you get family members over extended family, and
it can get a little hairy when it comes to conversations.
How do you steer yourself out of these things? Why
can't we just go listen? You know, I'm really not interested.

(59:45):
It seems like the easiest thing to do.

Speaker 7 (59:47):
You absolutely can, and sometimes people will respect that, and
sometimes they won't. So, you know, I'm thinking specifically of
a family I know where one of the kids is
not performing up to the grandparents expect and the grandparents.

Speaker 6 (01:00:01):
Continually ask the kid, so, what are you doing with
your life?

Speaker 8 (01:00:03):
Why aren't you doing anything different? Why aren't you doing
this or that?

Speaker 7 (01:00:06):
And the kid tries, well young adult not.

Speaker 6 (01:00:09):
Kids, tries to say, look, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:00:11):
I don't want to talk about this. I don't want
to talk about this. I don't want to talk about this,
and they just don't listen. They keep hounding. So you
can try not to attend every drama you're invited to,
but sometimes people will continue.

Speaker 8 (01:00:24):
To hound you.

Speaker 6 (01:00:25):
So in that instance, it can be really good.

Speaker 7 (01:00:27):
To have an ally on your side and have a
look or a signal or a code word that says, hey,
come in and rescue me. And have that person come
in and redirect the conversation or pull you away to
help in the kitchen, or take you outside for a
walk or whatever. Have somebody who can help direct you
if you're not able to manage the conversation on your own.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Another opportunity there is hire someone like me to come
to your Thanksgiving and be that guy. I don't know.
Problem is, shut the hell up. Nobody wants to hear
your crab carl.

Speaker 6 (01:00:53):
You totally could, and you get free food.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Out of it. So what's your deal that to win
all around everybody?

Speaker 6 (01:01:04):
You are so direct. Everybody wins because you were so directed.
Just say no, I'm not having that conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Leave thee he answer the question quite pressing them. We'll
turn it around on you. You think you should be
so taught and social security right now, I think you're
a little younger. What do you you know, get on
their mouth, you take it out your medication exactly. Let's
jump on you really clear and.

Speaker 7 (01:01:24):
Direct about that, and other people have a hard time
being that clear and direct, and sometimes people don't stop
when you tell them to stop. So, you know, being
able to escape, having a rescue and an exit strategy
can be really helpful for folks.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Yeah, and answer, now, how does the supply when it
comes to let's say coworkers, Because we have time in
the year we're going to do in holiday parties and
you know there's generally complimentary drinks and beverages, and you
get cornered and that that that's a whole different model
because you see these people all the time, as opposed
to maybe a certain family member at least once a year.

Speaker 7 (01:01:57):
Right, right, right, right, So in that case, it can
be really helpful to have a way of saying that
you disagree.

Speaker 8 (01:02:03):
That isn't your wrong.

Speaker 6 (01:02:05):
You can say I see it differently, or.

Speaker 8 (01:02:07):
My experience has not been that.

Speaker 6 (01:02:09):
My experience has been different than that, or in my.

Speaker 8 (01:02:13):
World view, it looks a little different. So you can
just pivot and say I see it differently. And then again, it.

Speaker 7 (01:02:19):
Can really be helpful to have those topics of conversation
to change it to So what are your family doing
for the holidays? Do you celebrate with friends, do you travel,
what do you do? You can change the topic to
something different really deftly and steer it away.

Speaker 6 (01:02:35):
And then again, if.

Speaker 7 (01:02:36):
It's coworkers, you can always just excuse yourself, go talk
to somebody else, Go refresh your drink, Go take a
smoke break, even if you actually don't smoke, right, Go
say oh, I see so and so leaving. I need
to say goodbye to them before they go, oh, there's Joe.
I've been trying to button hole them about this project.
I want to see if I can get ten minutes
next week. You can find a way to remove yourself

(01:02:58):
and most people will be pretty gracious about that. Not everybody,
but most people will be pretty gracious about that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Yeah, all right. And then are some people that just
don't get the message and they continue. That's a whole
other topic entirely.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Well, there are.

Speaker 6 (01:03:12):
People who don't get the message and they just continue.

Speaker 7 (01:03:14):
And that's when sometimes you have to get more direct
and you have to say, look, I'm interested in having
a good time tonight or spending time with friends and family.
This is not a topic I want to get into.
I really don't want to talk about this right now,
or I don't want to talk about this with you
right now, or I don't want to talk about this
ever again.

Speaker 8 (01:03:31):
In the history of ever.

Speaker 7 (01:03:32):
You can say any of those things and then just
refuse to engage, and you can remove yourself. You can say, look,
I get that this is important to you, but I
don't want to go here, and you go someplace else
and you talk to somebody else, or you remove yourself
from the conversation. If you're seated at a table, you
turn to the person to your left, if the person
do your right won't leave you alone, or you engage
the person across the table from you, or you actually

(01:03:55):
get up and move your seat, so you just stop
the conversation and focus on something else. And yes, that
could be seen as rude, but if you use it
as the last resort when the other person won't stop
bugging you, then they're actually the ones being rude and
you're actually the one being polite and holding a solid boundary.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Yeah, if you can do that, I think most people
just suffer on their minds going God help me, and
you know there's no help to be had at that point.
You just nod your head and okay, well that's good, okay,
and they just keep going and going. What about going
to a family dinner, a Thanksgiving, Christmas? I'm going to
applies for all these things where you know that there's
like I don't know somebody's going to bring up bring

(01:04:33):
up a past grievance, because it happens every year.

Speaker 7 (01:04:38):
It does absolutely, So first of all, maybe you don't
need to engage in that conversation.

Speaker 6 (01:04:43):
Maybe it has nothing to do with you.

Speaker 7 (01:04:46):
Maybe they bring up a past grievance with somebody else
and you can just mentally check out. If it does
have something to do with you, you can say, listen,
I will happily discuss this with you, but not hearing now,
Let's set a time that we can talk about it later.
Or I feel like we've covered this in years past.
I don't feel like there's any more to say, and
I'm not interested in discussing it with you anymore. And again,

(01:05:08):
remove yourself from the situation.

Speaker 6 (01:05:10):
It's really about holding.

Speaker 7 (01:05:11):
Your own personal boundaries, not being the person who brings
up the past grievance and ruins the party, but holding
your own boundaries and having some escape strategies if you
need them.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Yeah, all right, So we've covered those angles in particular.
Julie Hatter share a relative to getting together and uncomfortable
conversations at what point, should you just go, Okay, I'm
out of here. It's always a bad look when you start.
You know, I'm storming off, but it's like, okay, we're leaving.

Speaker 7 (01:05:40):
Well if you are, if you are unable to have
a useful, worthwhile conversation with anybody at the event, Let's
say you are the only person who is not believing
a particular way or engaging in a particular conversation, and
you don't want to. If it starts to get antagonistic,
if you start to feel yourself getting in antagonistic and

(01:06:01):
you can't back yourself down into a place of peace
and calm, If it looks like things are going sideways
and there doesn't seem to be any other avenue to explore,
then you can say, look, I think it's time for
us to go. This isn't going in a direction that
I want for us or for you. I don't want
anybody's holiday to be.

Speaker 8 (01:06:19):
Ruined, yours or hours. It's time for us to go.

Speaker 7 (01:06:21):
And you make your exit, you politely, as politely as
you can. If you're the one who's really worked up,
you politely say I'm stepping out, and you do. We
hope that's the last resort, But that's also a really
clear consequence. And actions have consequences. So if you are
the person who's been trying to say no, I don't
want to know, I don't want to know, I don't
want to and the others aren't listening, then a consequence

(01:06:44):
of that is you remove yourself and they don't get
to talk to you anymore. They don't have you at
their party or their dinner. Actions have consequences. Okay, we
hope that that's the last resort.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
What does it say and how do you addrest the
person who simply doesn't get the message you don't want
to have this conversation. If they just continue to pester people,
is it up to the host to throw them out?
What do you do if it's a relative and.

Speaker 7 (01:07:03):
The relatives I think I think the host should definitely
set some expectations. And the host is the one with
a certain kind of power.

Speaker 8 (01:07:12):
I'm not saying all the power, because.

Speaker 7 (01:07:13):
Families are power dynamic, interesting, but the host has a
certain kind of power because you are at their home
and the host can say, hey, listen, look, Aunt, Susie,
Uncle Joe, no politics tonight, please, I've asked you, I'm
going to remind you please no politics tonight. You're making
making people uncomfortable, and the host can then ask those
offending parties if they're not paying attention to leave. That

(01:07:36):
would be a really big thing to do, though, I
mean that would take a lot of That would take
a lot of gumption on somebody's part to ask folks.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
But a church bells? Are you kidding me? That'd be
awesome exactly.

Speaker 7 (01:07:49):
But if they're being that disruptive to everybody else's holiday
and there's nothing that anybody can think or figure out
to do to back them down and to make that better,
it is an option. I would say it's the last
resort option, but it is an option available to say, look,
I'm sorry, you're gonna have to ask you to leave
because everybody.

Speaker 6 (01:08:09):
Else is trying to enjoy themselves when you're making it impossible.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
That's a job for you, a holiday bouncer. How about that?

Speaker 7 (01:08:16):
You you should hire yourself out to be the truth teller,
the stopper of all awkward conversations, and the enforcer the muscle.

Speaker 6 (01:08:26):
If things go sideways.

Speaker 7 (01:08:28):
And you get free food and you get paid for.

Speaker 6 (01:08:30):
It, and all you do is miss a holiday with
your own family.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
You shut up here and this pie is horrible, by
the way. Oh yeah, this is what a business model
right there, Just for a good food critic, right right, right, roll.
Keep in mind that's smoking kills, but it also can
get you out of uncomfortable situations during the holidays. Just
something enough.

Speaker 7 (01:08:47):
Absolutely, you can also pretend to take a call.

Speaker 8 (01:08:50):
You don't have to smoke.

Speaker 7 (01:08:51):
You can also pretend to take a call and move
to a different room.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
You know, my stocking a carton of Marlborough's. She's Julie
hattersh heare licensed metal health expert at that be Connected
dot care. Hey, Juliet be Connected dot care. She jumps
in every Monday morning and mental health Monday here on
the Scott Sloan Show. We'll talk again next week. Have
a wonderful holiday. Okay, thanks you, I appreciate you. We
got to time out in and when a return to
the show. We have all sorts of stuff, believe it

(01:09:15):
or not, happened in Washington. We have the Supreme Court
on terrafs for this matter. It looks like in some
of these things go okay, well, what's the point of
the Supreme Court going to wind up ruling that terrifs
are illegal and what are the consequences of that too
as we head in the holiday shopping season here too,
when we're paying a little bit more for everything. It's
all in play in the Scott's Loan Show seven hundred WWD.
Since now do you want to.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
Be an American idiot?

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
Sloaney back on seven hundred WLW. It is the International
Emergency Economic Powers Act, the old i e EPA boring
but important. It's normal reserved for national security crisises to
impose widespread tariffs, and of course this has let a
constitutional showdown a fire. Some ninety billion dollars has been

(01:09:59):
collected under the t AFS under Trump and China. Of
course they're easing their measures, so in that case it
looks like it might be working. But it's before the
Serame Court as we speak, and it could reshape how
future presidents are able to use that power. On the
show this morning, Kyle Moran, he's a political analyst and
at Young Voices he's senior contributed there. Welcome, how are you.

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
I'm good?

Speaker 5 (01:10:19):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Yeah, I appreciate it. So the big issue here as
we debate tariffs and if they're effective or not. Is
that the President invoked the Powers Act and designed for
a national security crisis like wars or terrorism or seizing
assets things like that to impose Trey teffs on China.
Is this a misuse of emergency powers? Because that's what

(01:10:40):
the High Court is going to decide here.

Speaker 5 (01:10:43):
Yeah, it basically is guaranteed to be some sort of
abuse of overreach in terms of the emergency powers granted
to him through that Act, because from day one when
he rolled these out, he was already exempting very specific
industries that are economically important because he knows the impact

(01:11:05):
that tariff would have on those would be detrimental to
the United States. But critically, this shows that it's not
based on national security. When he's exempting copper, pharmaceuticals, semiconductors,
all these other types of materials from the tariffs, then
what is it? What is he even tariffing a lot

(01:11:26):
of the needs a lot less important goods that we're importing.
So therefore it's not based on national security, which he
himself has sort of admitted very at various times. He
has gone on record as saying it's going to be
used to pay down the national debt to do now
to do these stimulus checks as a source of revenue

(01:11:48):
rather than as a national security concern.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
Yeah, and that is a concern too, is purely a
revenue standpoint, And so far we've had some indication that
the conservative justice are even pushing back on that. Amy
Cony Barrett and Justice Chief Justice Rod John Roberts said
that the vehicle is in position of taxes on Americans
and that has always been a core power of Congress.

(01:12:11):
Those early indicators certainly don't indicate how they're going to vote,
because there's been times that I've thrown that out there.
They're challenging it. But that if you're looking at the
tea lives here, it doesn't bode well for this.

Speaker 5 (01:12:22):
No, it doesn't because like I was, like I said,
so much of this has not even been like the
opposition criticizing the administration, but the administration undermining its own position.
So it really does. It does get into some tricky
legal battles for the administration to keep the standing. But

(01:12:43):
I do have to I do have to step back
and think these powers were passed to be very limited
in times of in times of actual concerns to national security.
We have reached a point where Congress has seeded so
much power to the executive. The point of passing that
Act in nineteen seventy seven was never to institute broad

(01:13:08):
sweeping powers for the executives to just simply impose and
pull off and impose more tires, willy nilly. That was
not what it was for. It's not what it's for now.
And the country is not designed to be run by
somebody who has essentially more and more unlimited power for

(01:13:29):
four years before an election.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
If the Supreme Court rules against these terroriffts does that,
then call them the re examination of the executive order
power of the part of the presidency and executive. I
mean we saw Biden and the autopen do it with impunity,
and Trump said, well, here, hold my diet coke, watch
me make a bunch of executive orders. In Congress has
absolutely no. They're feckless, right, I mean, you can shut

(01:13:52):
the government down for forty something days over god knows what.
They can't really pass any income to conclusion, other than
releasing the Epstein files because it covers their asses. But
does this change that? How we how we maybe that
the Congress actually is forced to do their job.

Speaker 5 (01:14:09):
I'm not optimistic on that it will limit the executive
in terms of being able to do this on again,
off again charade, which has reached incredible levels where it's
literally back in April and May, it was every day
you would open the news new tariff, and then one
of those tariffs was canceled, and then the next day
more tariffs. So that type of stuff would be much

(01:14:33):
harder for future executives. But to your point about Biden,
with the autopen and all these things, Congress has essentially feeded,
like I said, so much of its own power to
the executive on a broad range of issues. The Supreme
Court doesn't have the ability to step in and say
Congress needs to do this. It can say that the

(01:14:54):
president doesn't have the ability himself to do it, but
it can't make Congress do its job, and certainly, as
we are seeing, Congress can't make Congress do its own job.
So we are in an unfortunate position there and I'm
not gone through them that will see much of an improvement.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Yeah, well, I think I'm hoping anyway, uh com moran
that if the if the Supreme Court rolls against him
with tariffs, which we'll get into the repercussions of that
in a second, but on a bigger scale, and that
is limiting executive office powers and executive branch powers. That
there's a roadblock there, and the other one is going
to be Venezuela at some point, I imagine you know

(01:15:31):
that's going to come to some sort of fruition here
because we're blowing up ships off the coast of Venezuela, which, yeah,
allegedly drug runners, but we've had numerous studies and the
like that have been done that says, well, Venezuela is
not a drug problem. Maybe Mexico, and now he's considering
other countries. So you could kind of like maybe put
a couple of pillars up there, maybe a couple of
speed bumps for these guys with a branch down the line.

(01:15:51):
We'll see what happens. But relative to the ninety billion collected,
that is another big problem there. The of course, the
money's coming back in, but would there be a refund
and how would that even work?

Speaker 5 (01:16:04):
That is an excellent question because this is something on
this scale that's never been attempted before. So if these
are struck down, there would have to be refunds. But
depending on when this actually happens depending on if the
government has spent this money. Trump is already eyeing using
those funds for these two thousand dollars stimulus checks, which

(01:16:28):
wouldn't even be enough to cover those by the way,
but it would create a very unprecedented situation. We would
have to see exactly how this plays out. But to
answer your question, yes, they would have to be refunded well.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
And the other element here is if we have a
thirty eight trillion dollar deficit, why are we handing out
two thousand dollars checks exactly?

Speaker 5 (01:16:48):
Which is part of the issue here. Again, we saw
the impact back under the Biden administration, incredibly big spending
and money printing in one which drive inflation up to
nine percent, and we are still feeling the results of that.
We're still feeling the impact of that for almost five

(01:17:12):
years on now. So when the inflation goes up like that,
it never comes down again. The inflation rate at which
prices increase may come down, but the prices that went
up they're just there and you're stuck with that. You
will never see twenty nineteen prices for a lot of
goods again. And that's the unfortunate reality of the money

(01:17:35):
system that we have now, where we just print more
and more, and almost certainly we would have to print
a considerable amount of money to make these two thousand
dollars checks happen. And then on top of that, Trump
hates the current Federal Reserve charge your own power, who's
not flallaced by any means, but he wants to replace
them with somebody who's going to be even more dubbish

(01:17:58):
and turning the money print is back on and just
print prints.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
And you know, as someone who is I guess more
libertarian than anything, and I just distrust government top to bottom.
I don care my team, your team. Kind of nonsense.
There's an apocrisy test here. So how many Republicans who
absolutely celebrate the tariffs in all this and the bombing
of ships off Venezuela, wouldn't they be outrage of a

(01:18:24):
Democratic president of the same. I mean, look at this one.
We talk about the Affordable Care Act, which is they're right,
it's subsidy. You're taking taxpayer money to give other people
a break on their healthcare. Healthcare is too damn expensive.
Let's do something the lower the cost of healthcare, as
opposed to just giving aid to people and redistributing wealth.
It doesn't work. It's too expensive, it's not a four.

(01:18:45):
It doesn't make it affordable, it makes it less affordable.
Subsidy does using that same logic, And I'm right about that.
Republicans should be talking about what we're doing here with
Trump and be equally outraged that now we're going to
take money that could go pay off the deficay and
we're going to give people subsidies.

Speaker 5 (01:19:03):
Yeah, and to your point, the healthcare situation is something
the GOP has basically ignored for the last a decade
minimum and at this point it's reaching a breaking point
where they just can't ignore it anymore. They tried to
appeal and replace Obamacare in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, it
went down in pretty famous ways, and the deal they

(01:19:27):
wanted to pass is not a great deal to begin with.
But ever since then, they just haven't tried much of anything.
And the only people talking about healthcare reform now are
the progressive And that's a very dangerous situation because when
people when people see that their health care costs are skyrocketing,
which they are, and the only people even talking about

(01:19:48):
it are going to be AOC and Bernie Sanders, Like
that is how you wind up with people like Zar
Mombami is mayor, even though he doesn't have direct control
over health care. People just hear these things from the
left and resonate with it, and not illegitimately either because
they they cannot afford these cramy surge surges in these cranses.

(01:20:12):
So the GT really needs to get going on healthcare.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
Yeah, I've said that all along, Kyle is. You know
the Democrats plan is here's groupon we're going to get
lower cost on your healthcare. We're gonna take something else's
money and give it to you. Okay, that that's not
a plan. That is just a band aid, is what
that is. It makes things worse, not better in the
long run. Look what the subsidies done to the college industry.
You know, college is out of control because the subject

(01:20:37):
is the same thing. And then I look at the
Republicans and it's been fifteen years. They have no answer
on this. All I hear is well eat better. Well,
that's okay, eat better, but don't take tayl and all. Okay,
but I've got cancer now and I can't afford it.
I'm going to take the subsidy. That's that's what we're
faced with.

Speaker 5 (01:20:57):
I know, it's it's absolute mannits and the talking points
that they use for some of it is are legitimate.
So when they were talking about not wanting any legal
immigrants to be on our government subside of healthcare, this
is a legitimate concern. But that is not addressing the
issue that to millions of American suits and are seeing

(01:21:19):
their healthcare comps go up more than double, sometimes triple
over the last several years. Myself, I have seen mine
go up more than doubles over the last four years.
So this is unsustainable, and nobody on the right is
even talking about it, let alone at proposing real plans

(01:21:40):
on it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
Yeah. Yeah, And it was supposed to make America great again,
and I think healthcare is certainly a cornerstone of that,
and to some degree, people like Marjorie Tayler Green are
accurate on that one too. Let's focus on this kind
of stuff. You've had fifteen years to come up with
a plan, and there's no plan at this point. It's
nothing but platitudes, is what I'm getting. He is a commed.

Speaker 3 (01:22:03):
People on the.

Speaker 5 (01:22:04):
Right have been attacking her over this, and I'm thinking
to myself, this is this is madness. I find it incredible.
I'm raising Marjorie Taylor Green of all people. But she
is absolutely right about this, and I respect her toward
her courage and standing up to people who are otherwise
just burying their head in the stands and depending all
of well, it's not And I respect the fact that

(01:22:27):
she's addressing him.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
He is a common ran political analyst and young voice,
a senior contributor, and talking about tariffs now before the
Supreme Court, and a will decide whether not these are
illegal or not. If it's a no go, we got
to talk about refunding money to these countries. But you know,
at the same time, you look at getting China to
the table to kind of negotiate, look at some of
the deals done with other countries. Would it be tough

(01:22:50):
for the Supreme Court don do all that.

Speaker 4 (01:22:54):
Well?

Speaker 5 (01:22:54):
In terms of executive the president negotiating with foreign countries,
he certainly has pretty broad powers there. But the issue
is that he is currently arguing that the tariffs are
for national security and in no small part using that
as leverage. But the issue is that he has also

(01:23:15):
made so many other statements as well as other people
in his administration making other statements that directly undermine that argument,
because on one day, the case will be made that
we need tariff to protect American industry, the next day
it will be that tariffs are needed as a temporary
measure to get other countries to lower their tariffs on us,

(01:23:38):
and then the day after that it will be that
we need tariffs to generate revenues that we can pay
off our debt. So nobody, the administration's position on this
changes on the daily and it's going to be a
very challenging hill for the administration to climb, given how
all over the places has been.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
Yeah, it's almost like corporate America in a way, is
that you know, we live quarter to quarter. We don't
care about tomorrow. We just care about the bottom line today,
and we may cut our nose off to spite our face,
but damn it, we got to do that right now.
And it's now that's permeated to politics to agree. If
you think about it, is if this is allowed, you
want and you know, Republicans will celebrate this big win
by the Supreme Court and the tariffs can stand. The

(01:24:20):
present can do that. Okay, great, But one of the
same people will be yelling and angry about this in
the future next year or five years or eight whenever,
and at some point a Democrat will be back in
charge and maybe they go, hey, you know what, climate
change is an economic emergency. We're going to impose carbon
tariffs exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:24:40):
And that's why, that's why this whole system was set
up not to be the way we're hurringly experiencing it,
because we are. If you if you have a country
in which you have radical changes of of national policy
every four years, you're going to go through these wild
whiplashes of of moving to the right for one administration

(01:25:03):
moving to the left, and the other administration. And this
will happen to some extent no matter what the system is,
because the executive does have some power. But it was
never designed to be this wild swing between Biden comes
into office and because he's president, he can do all
of these far left things and open the border in
at least ten million illegal immigrants, which nobody voted for.

(01:25:26):
Nobody voted in twenty twenty to open the border and
let ten million people into the country. That was not
part of the campaign. It just happened with no input
from the American electorate, but despite widespread opposition to it,
it just continued for three and a half years before
he really tried to address them. Then Trump comes in.
Nobody voted. I do not seriously believe that anyone really

(01:25:50):
voted for such high tariffs on other countries. People may,
as he did talk about it during a campaign to
his credit on that, but I really don't think that
this is my bunch of a huge point that people
ended up voting on. So these these massive swings are
just detrimental to the stability of our country.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
Yeah, there are checks and balances and we need them
and this will uh, this definitely will decide. It is
a huge case before the court. He is a calm
moran with the young voices. Thanks again, Kyle, great stuff,
appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (01:26:20):
Thank you very much for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:26:22):
Yeah, I will be interesting to see what the Supreme
Court does. Congress, I'll silent on this one. Just out
of the show. News updates as we slow it down
here headed to Thanksgiving Day on Thursday. Short week for
most of us, hopefully you too, and uh, rough weekend
for sports in Cincinnati unless you are one of the
team's named Xavier. It sucked largely, we'll do Bengals stuff

(01:26:44):
with James Rapine from SI's Bengals Talk dot Com and
Lockdow Bengals a daily podcast. That's next on the Scott
Sloan Show seven hundred w WELW. What a horrible weekend
for since these sports, unless, of course your team had
Xavier and it's name and that was pretty good. But
you see FC and the Bengals all lost at home,
Bengals getting beat by the Patriots twenty six twenty Bengals

(01:27:05):
fall to three and eight. Up next short week, it's
Thanksgiving Night at Baltimore A twenty on the national stage
and will we burrow or won't we borrow? We'll find out.
James Rapine is here from Bengals Talk dot Com and
the Daily Podcast Locked on Bengals. James, what an interesting
day yesterday was. You can't help but think that if
either Joe Burrow or Jamar Chase were in that game,

(01:27:28):
Bengals win.

Speaker 5 (01:27:30):
No doubt, no doubt that the defense did it not
and they did their job. Now were they perfect? No,
they weren't perfect. Some of the stuff they did give
up was ridiculous. Five they had to pick six, They
had multiple goal line stands where the Patriots have it
inside the five and don't score on nine plays, and

(01:27:52):
then on another one you hold them to three at
the one yard line, you hold them to a field goal.
So yeah, if you get that kind of effort on defense,
the way this team is built, with Joe Burrow and
Jamar Chase and t Higgins up until the end, you
expect to win that game. And obviously that they did.
I think that's clearly a big reason why they lost

(01:28:14):
the game.

Speaker 2 (01:28:15):
Well, we kind of knew Joe Burrow is up in there,
and you know, you raid the team leaves, and the
way coach was talking last week seemed to indicate like
you think Joe Burrow is going to play, And I'm like, well,
you know what, let's rest him. He said he was
sore after practice, So you know, let's focus on the
season's over for all intents and purposes. Anyway, this just
seals it even more. But let's focus on the Ravens game,
getting them back and getting them ready. But the big

(01:28:36):
one to me was Jamar Chase. And I don't think
it's lost on anyone that if Jamar starts that game,
probably you got another target, especially with the injuries, Right,
joshavask goes down, Higgins goes down with the concussion, and
know Jamar Chase, that's a tough roat to ho even
with Joe Burrow. But I think if Jim R. Chase
were back, yeah, probably got a couple more catches, passes,
first downs, maybe a touchdown. I think the outcome is different.

Speaker 5 (01:28:58):
For sure, and even late, let's just say that everything
happens the same. I think the offense would have been
better early in the game, but late, Zach Terrish probably
far more likely to go forward on fourth and one
from his own forty five if Jamar Chase is on
the field, and he should have went anyway regardless. But

(01:29:19):
I do think right, I think Jamar makes an impact.
I think Joe Blacker would have been far more in
rhythm early because he wasn't. And that's the difference, especially
going up against a Patriots team that has won eighth
straight coming in and now nine straight.

Speaker 2 (01:29:35):
Yeah, the Bengals offense didn't score a TD for almost
an hour against the Patriots, but they weren't blown out.
You know, it's a competitive loss, but you know, the
whole moral victory thing is it's a waste because you know,
does it actually help the team move forward or is
it just masking problems that won't be addressed.

Speaker 5 (01:29:57):
Yeah, I mean I think the moral vic reads are
They're not a young team, they're not an up and
coming team. They're a team that was supposed.

Speaker 4 (01:30:04):
To win this year.

Speaker 5 (01:30:06):
And so even on defense, right, there's there's no moral victories.
Their linebackers were awful yesterday. They could not guard sountor
Henry and in some pretty obvious moments had some breakdowns. Now,
I do think they played much better had the defense
showed up against the Jets, while they win by three scores,
had that defense showed up against the Bears, I think

(01:30:26):
they win that game. Right that there are reasons to
buy into all. Well, maybe what Al Golden is teaching
is working for everyone but the rookie linebackers, who again
I think struggled mightily.

Speaker 2 (01:30:39):
Feels like Geno Stone has that one good game of
year one big seven tackles, has a pick six pass
the defender, he had what the tackle one fourth and
goal from the one yard line. He was great.

Speaker 5 (01:30:53):
He was he was great, and he deserves a ton
of credit because he he played well. He heard it,
he heard all the crem and I probably led the
charge when it came to Geno stilling criticism and I
and I'm fine with that. And guess what I want
players like that that are struggling, that's how they should respond.
They should respond. And I don't mean tick six. You

(01:31:14):
can't really control that. Drake made through it right, the Genie.
Really like the return through it right, the Geno. But
on the very first player, second play from scrimmage, I
noticed Geno soon his effort level in intensity, and it
was its fuilt different than what I had seen, watched
every staff of them all year, different than what I
had seen this year. And whatever that was, that needs

(01:31:36):
to be what he plays with every week. And that's
what I would tell him if I'm the Bengals coaching staff.
But whatever pissed him off or made him mad or
whatever he played with maybe, and maybe it is just
reading my criticize.

Speaker 2 (01:31:50):
Who knows.

Speaker 5 (01:31:50):
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
It's not me like a lot is absolutely you, James.
They all listen to what you have to say. Your weight, carry,
your mouth carries enough way to break an ordinary man's jaw,
offer cry out.

Speaker 5 (01:32:00):
But but whatever it is, keep doing it, because I
did notice really from the first and intensely difference with
Gino's Stone, and that's how you should play on defense,
especially a defense that's been back.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
James Rapen from Bengals Talk dot Com Lockdown Bengals. The
Bengals lost there three and eight. Right now, Pittsburgh Baltimore
up next on Thanksgiving Night. Let's go back and do
Pittsburgh again. Uh place, Because we're talking about Geno Stone.
He was really bad against Pittsburgh, but he flashed yesterday,
that's for sure. Zach Tedter says that the Bengals haven't
lost a game because of Joe Flacco yet he's now

(01:32:34):
throwing pick sixes in consecutive weeks. His passer rating was
just to tick over sixty three. At what point do
you look at this and go, it's just it's untenable.
There's a reason why, Zach, there's a reason why Joe
Flacco is a backup. This is it.

Speaker 5 (01:32:51):
Yeah, for sure, he's come back down to earth, and
I do think help is a part of it. He
told me he was healthy after the game, and I
think that's that's relative right. A forty year old quarterback
that's dealing with a throwing shoulder injury and now a
finger injury. But I do think he'll be active. I
do think he's been good enough to be Like when

(01:33:17):
they traded for him, as you just said, this, you're
going to get I think everybody in the building, I
think we I think we would have all signed up
for it. And the downside is is that when he
was playing that elite level of football for a few
games and they were humming on offense and in a rhythm,
he did not. He did not the defense needed to

(01:33:40):
back him up and to get a couple more wins.
He only is one win as a Bengals quarterback. That
shouldn't be the case. He shouldn't be one in five.
He should probably be three and three. And that's not
the case. And that's unfortunate. And that's why the Bengals
are never going to have a real discussion about the
playoffs this year.

Speaker 2 (01:33:59):
Could they have started Joe Burrow?

Speaker 5 (01:34:03):
I would I would have and I said that Saturday.
This isn't my on sight. I get the frustration. Look,
if you're bringing Joe Burrow back at all this week,
and I fully expect that to be the case, why
not bring him back when it's their three seven when
they have an actual chance to go three and seven
to five and seven in a five day stretch to

(01:34:25):
get back into the playoff mix, and they would. If
they were five and seven, I would consider them back
in the playoffs night, except for everything that had happened. Obviously,
they would still need to win a bunch of games.
I get it, But that's what I would have done.
I said, if I'm bringing Joe Burrow back in what
feels like a meaningless season, I wouldn't give him every
opportunity to have a chance at making a run at it,

(01:34:48):
even if it's improbable. And there are going to be
people that say, well what if he wasn't ready and
all of those things. Well, the difference between playing Sunday
and Thursday, there's not much of one outside of a
few days rest, and obviously have a short week. I
get that. I get that, the concern of playing on
a short week. I also think that after a couple
of full practices last week, Burrough would have been good

(01:35:11):
to go, or good enough to go to play. And
if you're doing that, give him a chance, because now
I wouldn't personally, I wouldn't play in Thursday.

Speaker 4 (01:35:18):
Would you playing Thursday?

Speaker 5 (01:35:19):
I wouldn't. What does that do? That just puts him
on the road in Baltimore, exposed against the division rival,
who knows what's going to happen. That's that's how I
looked at It.

Speaker 2 (01:35:27):
Feels like, I mean, you know, okay, so you don't
win out the rest of the season. They're already selling
tickets at twenty percent off every long game. Now make it,
make it half off Bogo, some sort of Bengals Bogo
deal for the rest of the season. I don't get
why you would put your quarterback, especially Joe Burrow, the
entire operations built around him. You're going to need him
healthy in the off season to work and then get

(01:35:49):
ready for hopefully a better twenty twenty six, a playoff
twenty twenty six, because let's face it, you know the
windows shrinking every single year. It doesn't seem prudent to
put the guy on the field. Why does need the rep.

Speaker 5 (01:36:02):
Yeah, I I think he wants to play, right, So
that's it. And look going into last week when he
was really starting to make his push and I could
get the sense that he was going to push to
play and play this week, I said, all right, Bengals,
do one or the other pick away either say hey,

(01:36:26):
you're not going to play and don't play him, which
means moving forward, don't playing Thursday. Maybe you give him
a full week of practice ahead a buffle if you
really play, but he's not going to get one real
practice this week and then he's going to go play
Baltimore because it's such a short week. I mean, that's
a that's a really big downside to me in my mind,
especially in the gamement. What are you going to get

(01:36:48):
to four and eight? You know that's and so that
to me, there's enough risk involved there where I would
be super cautious and pull him completely back or go
the other way and say, hey, you know what, we
have a shot at this. Joe feels good enough, he
wants to play, let's go play, and let's try to
get back in this thing. And they kind of the

(01:37:09):
answer for them was in the middle. And I hate
the middle. You'd never want to be in the middle.
In the middle is usually the wrong place to be.
And I think that's where they're going to end up,
because they'll end up with, you know, five or six
wins with Joe Burrow playing dumb straight.

Speaker 2 (01:37:23):
And it's how developed down the receiver. So Jamar Chase
out with the suspension. He'll be back for Thursday night football.
Now t Higgins isn't the concussion protocol. He didn't look
good on the sideline when he was sitting on the cart.
I'd be shocked if we were a bit back. I
don't know. Jose Vask got hurt. That doesn't look good.
How good was Mitchell Tinsley?

Speaker 3 (01:37:41):
Though?

Speaker 5 (01:37:41):
Good, really good? And Mitch Tinsley is like he's a
real guy. He needs to get more reps. I think
that's what we learned yesterday. I know he splashed down
the class in the preseason last earlier this year, I'm
I'm of the belief now after what he did game
on the line, no one had really made a play.
He made plays. You need Mitch Tinsley to get more reps,

(01:38:03):
and I hope he gives them. I really do, because
he's he's kind of a matter of fact, no nonsense,
work really hard, do what it will with's asked, and
when you do throw the ball his way, he's going
to do everything. He can't get it. Like I just
described the receiver, you want every single receiver to be.
Whether his attitude is pulling this to block all of

(01:38:25):
those things. So, yeah, Mitch Tinsley, I would expect him
to be part of that Joe Burrow target share on
Thursday at Baltimore.

Speaker 2 (01:38:33):
Well, sure as hell, isn't Jermaine Burton an active twelfth
consecutive game. You thought they'd elevate you. Is he done
in Cincinnati? And if so, what does that say about
how the team evaluates how they draft, because that's really
the issue here were specially when it comes to the defense.

Speaker 5 (01:38:49):
Oh, it ps me he's done. It tells me he's done.
If you can't get on the field and your team
is longing to roll with four wide receivers active over
activating you, it certainly tells me he's done. And they wished,
they wished gay time on this pick. Maybe maybe he

(01:39:09):
catches on somewhere else and it worked. Clearly it hasn't
worked here.

Speaker 2 (01:39:14):
James E. Bengals defense has been battered all season. Last
couple of games are starting to put it together, and
you got to give credit recordits down linebackers, different story,
but man at run defense was pretty good yesterday. It
wasn't bad, right, unbelievable.

Speaker 5 (01:39:26):
I'm unbelievable to say that the run defense was all right,
how about that? Where where was this a month ago?
When dancing on the grade and that's what was happening.
We just didn't know what.

Speaker 2 (01:39:37):
It's crazy, right, it's crazy. It's crazy how the script
flip too, because the defense and now now the offense
is the problem.

Speaker 5 (01:39:45):
Got so offensive scored twenty five points in the last
two games. You think about it, they had yesterday they
had thirteen on offense and uh in last week when
they had twelve against the Steelers. I mean they just
for all all the people that said the offense wasn't
the problem we had nowadays you know it's Uh, it's
just this never ending circle of a season where it's

(01:40:08):
offense is at an issue than it is then it's not.
Now it's the defense. Now the defense is better, but
the offense isn't.

Speaker 2 (01:40:15):
I don't know how that happened.

Speaker 5 (01:40:16):
I don't know a wheel and tell me what happens
on Thursday.

Speaker 2 (01:40:19):
And the defensive player's probably given Jamar side Jamar Chase
side eye right now for his comments like taking shots
at the defense, and it's like, okay, were you a
big boy?

Speaker 5 (01:40:28):
Yeah? Wow, yeah, I mean that's something else. It really
it's forth mooting the jamar Fitgate loss of him in
that potentially costing.

Speaker 2 (01:40:39):
Them that game. I would agree. I'd agree that's going
to hang over his head and hopefully, you know, you'll
learn from it. And I hate to say that because
it sounds so cliche, but he seems like the guy
that that would take that to heart and go kay
can be unlike Jermaine Burton, different story. I'm not expecting
much Thursday night changed. I'm not expecting much even if
Joe Burrow does start.

Speaker 5 (01:40:56):
Man, Yeah, it's so tough because I I think I'll
just called Joe Burrow in high regard, and I think
there's some that you necessarily, but I think there's some
people that had forgot what he means and how important
he is, and so like, am I going to count
Joe Burrow out in Baltimore?

Speaker 4 (01:41:15):
Like?

Speaker 5 (01:41:15):
Hell no? But that that's also why I would have
played him against the Patriots. I would have said, hey, Joe,
it's a tall task. We're willing to do this if
you are, and he would have said, hell yeah, I'm
willing to do this five days to try to stay
of our season and get us to five and seven.
And you know, I think He's going to have that
team fired up. They will be fired up. The problem

(01:41:35):
is a Baltimore needs that game too.

Speaker 2 (01:41:37):
Yeah, and Lamar's back too. That's the big one. Lamar's
back and he's you know what he can do. So
James Rapine over at Bengals Talk dot Com and the
Lockdown Bengals Only Daily Bengals podcast, James, all the best,
All right, have a great holiday. I know you're on
the road for this one, and we'll catch up in
a couple of weeks.

Speaker 5 (01:41:54):
You don't trust the Bengals lining actors against Lamar?

Speaker 2 (01:42:00):
Well, I didn't see them, you know, that close against
New England. So what do we know?

Speaker 1 (01:42:04):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:42:04):
I mean, it's the high flying New England Patriots. Drake
May looked, it looked like Joe Flacco for most of
the first half of the entirety of the first quarter.
So who the hell know is what's going to happen?
All the best, buddy, Appreciate.

Speaker 5 (01:42:14):
You, Thank God, appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (01:42:16):
All Right, there you go, I've got a holiday weekend
coming up and got Thursday night football, Bengals. Have some turkey,
have some more turkey. Stuff yourself silly. If the game's terrible,
have even more turkey, and just fall asleep. That's how
it works. Willie is on the way next on the
home of the best Bengals coverage seven hundred w W
since now

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