12-4-25 Scott Sloan Show

Scott talks with cyber security expert Chris Nyhuis about the most recent phishing attack. Also Clay Risen explains how politics have developed into modern McCarthyism. Finally Michelle Sloan tells you why your family home may be better for you than a condo in your retirement years.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Do you want to be an American?

Speaker 2 (00:03):
He's got fun backed on seven hundred WLW alot news
and big news we've had in the headlines recently. There's
other things that are kind of important. One of those
is I don't know if you saw this, but the
auditor of state State of Ohio reported at least twenty
three cyber attacks against government offices in the past twelve months.
It's here in Ohio, including seven hundred thousand dollars in
theft in Licking County. We've seen this in Dayton, and

(00:25):
in Cincinnati and across the area. Oh and let's not
forget that one in Middletown. And as a result, lawmakers
are working on cybersecurity legislations coming together that would require
municipalities to develop their own policies in response to those
cyber attacks and local governments. Chris Nihis is here. He's
the CEO of Cincinnati based Vigilant Cyber Security and Joints

(00:46):
show to discuss Chris.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Welcome, Thanks Scott, thanks for having me on.

Speaker 4 (00:49):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Before we get to the new law, we also have
the holiday buying season here. Everyone's clicking, clicking, clicking. We
just had cyber Monday biggest one Everett grows every year.
We had a huge Black Friday, buying a lot of
stuff online or ordering it picking up later what it
might be. And we have seen a threat against the
supply chain. For those at the user end can explain
what's going on here, what to look out for.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Right, So what's crazy about this?

Speaker 5 (01:13):
So MPMs are packets of data it's or it's it's software,
and what developers will do is they'll go out and
get the software kind of like a marketplace, and they'll
pull it put it into their software that they write
so that they don't have to write those modules again.
So what basically happened here is uh is an individual

(01:36):
that manages these some of these MPMs, they were fished
and basically gave up access to these modules. Attacks went
in modified them to when they were updated, like when
people update their software, and these are definitely the cyber
attack went into all of these different pieces of software

(01:58):
out there.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
So the problem with this is.

Speaker 5 (02:00):
Is that developers don't always necessarily know what packages they
put into these applications. Companies they don't know if they
take a piece of software and they put it into
their websites or whatever. In this case, it's affecting a
lot of crypto wallets that are out there, and so
it's a massive problem because this supply chain attack of

(02:20):
basically a supply chain of the piece of software that
gets to tribute all kinds of places with maybe no
record that's even there is. It can affect the applications
you use every day. And in a lot of case,
what they're seeing where a lot of these applications were
affected were crypto wallets. So if you're transferring crypto, one
of the things that's happening is malicious attackers. So it's

(02:44):
where if you go to transfer crypto, the software actually
swaps out the sending address that you're sending to with
their address, So they're accumulating crypto from people trying to
make legitimate transactions by just changing that out.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
Wow, got it.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
So now every time you click buy or you know,
add the car right now, now you've got to think
about that, right.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
No, it's crazy.

Speaker 5 (03:08):
As we talk with HB ninety six, it's even these
things can be related, right because you know, when when
it's software, it's embedded in software you use, you don't
necessarily know those things are happening. So like within PM
it's invisible to everybody out there, you know, but it's everywhere, right.
It's the software library system that developers use to build
these apps and websites, and so you know, I think

(03:30):
it's like the plumbing behind all of your favorite apps, you.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Know, right right right, We don't think about it until
now we can breach that as well. And this gets
back to the discussion about HB ninety six, your cybersecurity
legislation across the state. The state says, well, if you're
in a municipality, you have to come up with a
plan to deal with cyber attacks on local level. You've
got to review your do a systems review, identify risks
and mitigation and stuff like that. But I mean that'd

(03:55):
be okay for Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland. Maybe if you're a
Toledo or a date. But what about a middle town.
We saw what happened well this past summer, systems down
timelines for restoration up in the air. I know that
it was a huge suthing to be a huge problem,
and the people in Middletown are actually angry. They want
to answer some this whole thing.

Speaker 5 (04:15):
Well, see here, the thing about it is, and you know,
you and I've talked about cyber for a while here
is that the commodity technology that's out there in the
market just it just doesn't work. And and that's that's
something that people don't like me to say, especially in
this industry, but it's the truth of it. And you know,
if you look at all of the reports year after year,
the time it takes to detect a threat right now

(04:37):
is seven years.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
I mean that seven years starts seven months.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
That's grown years.

Speaker 6 (04:42):
I know that.

Speaker 5 (04:44):
Well sometimes you know, with with the attack against Dropbox
it was four years, right so so, but average right
now with seven months and and and that's where you know,
the part of the issue is the cyber industry just
doesn't have a significant amount of technology you have to
pivot that really is effective. And when it is effective tech,

(05:05):
it does take teams that have had skill sets in
and have a lot of time to focus on that.
And unfortunately in our school districts and local governments, you know,
they don't have the funding.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
You know, they're they're they're not giving the funding to
do it.

Speaker 5 (05:18):
And you know, if you watch some of these uh
you know, council meetings, you'll find where you know, someone
bring up purchase for cybersecurity and it gets trumps because
of cydewalks fixes right and which are both important. But
but they just don't get the funding and they don't
have the resources. So to your point, yes, it's going
to be a problem.

Speaker 7 (05:35):
Now.

Speaker 5 (05:36):
You know what happens though in these organizations is they
buy commodity software that is more automatic, and that's that's
part of the issue, is that the automatic approach to
cyber treaty doesn't work, and so these school districts are
going to have to spend a lot more money. Local
governments are gonna have to do the same. They're going
to have to bolster their teams up uh, and they're

(05:57):
going to have to really be wise about the tech
that they buy inside the environments you know that they
that they use.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Right right, Well, that's the thing is finding the proper vendor.
But it's up to the municipality though to figure out,
you know, what the detection is there too. So the
onus is on them is in this in this bill,
can I just go wait a minute, I've got a
bad vendor or I hired someone doesn't know what the
hell they're doing. Does that cover them legally from the
state perspective, What about that because I don't know what
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
You know, yeah, it doesn't.

Speaker 5 (06:26):
And that's really the thing with all of this is that,
you know, companies have to be extremely careful about the
tech they buy. They can't just buy a brand name.
And in fact, if you look at that seven months
of time, that's driven by the you know, the organizations
that have quote unquote more market share. So you have
to be really careful about the organizations you buy because

(06:47):
at the end of the day, you are legally responsible
because you chose where to put the data. And in
this case, you know there there's you know, the responsibility
to report. I mean, you have to report an incident
within seven days, you know, from when it happened. I
mean right now, it's seven months to even detect it.
You have to you know, you can't ransomware, which I

(07:09):
think is a good thing in most cases because it
will it will slow down the process for these attackers.
I think it'll make school districts a lot less of
a target in some ways because they'll be harder to
get them. But they have to get either board approval
or they have to get counsel approval to pay to
ransomware now, which is really good. But the other thing

(07:31):
that I I'll say, I do really love about this bill,
and it's something that I think Ohio did really really
well and the states like California did really really poorly.
And basically in this bill, it makes all cybersecurity records
and purchases confidential, and in like California, they have to

(07:51):
report everything they do literally public record. And so why
that's important is when you're when you're fighting against cyber
tackers that know what they're doing, and if you have
a document that you literally just put out there right
and you tell everybody all the technology you use, and
all the purches you use, and all your records, then

(08:12):
they know exactly how to attack you. So I think
Ohio did a really good thing. You don't normally see
that from lawmakers a lot because they're not really technologically
advanced when they write these laws.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Ohio did an awesome job.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
That's incredible.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Here's California, Silicon Valley, Apple, all these big and they
screw it up.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
Here's Ohio. We get it right. Good for right, we
get it right.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Oh the reason I live in Ohio now California, Chris
and I heis CEO of vigil and Cybersecurity in Cincinnati.
We're a few weeks in now to legislation that was
passed in the state of Ohio that says you got
to come up with a plan no matter how big
or small municipality is, your old town, your village, if
you have an online presence, you've got to come up
with a cyber plan. And there's a lot of questions
there for the smaller ones. I mean the big ones.

(08:52):
Cleveland had a huge cyber attack. They're a victim of.
I believe the court system in Cleveland recently had that happen.
So it's big cities too, not just places like Middletown
where we were shut down for a while, and the
residents are angry because they just want to know how
much information was compromised. We know, like, for example, the
one in Columbus, Columbus last year. As a matter of fact,
it was a major one. I think it breached like

(09:12):
five hundred thousand people, including names and dobs, addresses, tax accounts, socials,
all that stuff that's stolen and sold in the dark web.
Still have no idea who did it, where the information is.
It's just out there in the ether and there's no
catching these people, as we've talked about before, Chris, But
those are two of many. I think the problem for
me is and I heard about this firsthand from a friend.

(09:33):
Kettering Health Alliance had a ransomware malware attack shut everything down,
and I don't know what the outcome was, but you know,
their pr people kind of played it close to the vest, like, Hey,
everything's fine, we got it under control, we're working on
the problem, and there's no disclosure. Now, if you're that's
one thing in your company, but if it's your health records,
if it's your social if it's your address, I need
to know that that information has been compromised and it's transparency,

(09:57):
so you look at it go. You know, I just
don't want to held accountable. I don't want to get
voted out if I'm a Middletown City council person, if
I'm the mayor of Columbus, or I'm the CEO of
a healthcare operation. I don't want that on my I'm
the one stead staying on my record, so we'll downplay it.
That's not good for the people who have been victimized.

Speaker 5 (10:15):
Though it's not you know, you know, we we have
to be better. You know, organizations have to be better
at communicating. They have to they have to not hide it.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
You know.

Speaker 5 (10:25):
That's where a lot of these classacks from lasting against
these organizations are starting to come around. The one thing
I will say is that is that when it comes
to these records, you know, when you when you want,
you know, our records, yours of mine already stolen. You know,
the majority of the population over eighteen already stolen. I mean,

(10:45):
there's been so many breaches one after the other that
data is out there, especially as social numbers things like that.
You know, where schools come into play in the municipalities.
There's two things that are interesting here. One is every
year as kids turn terms eighteen, right, it's a new
group of people whose identities haven't been compromised yet, and

(11:08):
so schools are a great place for attackers to come
in and get high value target information. And what I
mean high value target is yours. My records sell for
about a dollar out there in the marketplace.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Some of that's turning step.

Speaker 5 (11:21):
You know, seventeen eighteen, their records are going to sell
for a lot more out of the hacking marketplace because
they haven't been used yet whereas yours or mine, you know,
if they have to prove it everything else. So schools
are a major target for that. So you know, as
a parent, one of the things you can do right
now is make sure you get identity STEFF protection for
your kids. Even though they're under eighteen, they have to

(11:41):
have that. Make sure you lock down their credit because
what happens is these you know, go to apply for
their first vehicle and they realize they have a portable
credit score because you know their identity. Since you know
with that, when it comes to municipalities, you know, we
are in an international cyber war already happens and people
in this industry know it. We as as you know,

(12:05):
citizens United States have to realize that it is.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
An it is an actual.

Speaker 5 (12:09):
Border to border war and and with that, our municipalities,
our local police departments are emergencies response systems. You know,
when cyber war continues to escalate, those are the places
that are going to get shut down first, right and
you're not going to have the services, So that there
has to be accountability to make sure that these things
are done right in that our identity is protected.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
You just assume your information is out there as an adult.
And so you know, we have the credit monitoring thing
going on, and we have a LifeLock or whatever the
version is of it that we have, but that's a
good brand. And also make sure that our credit reports
are locked down. And so we originally bought a new
house and had to go remember to unlock all the
credit reports for a while till they pulled your credit
and then lock them back up. Is that the best

(12:54):
pay is that the best you can do to prevent
your information from me you just assume it's being misused.
But if you have your credit the three credit beers
locked down, then there's not much they can do as
far as trying to get credit in your.

Speaker 5 (13:04):
Name, right right, I mean, and that's finance side of things.
So yes, locking things down there, making sure you have
credit holds, you know, unless you're going to purchase something,
then turn the credit hold off and then turn it
back on. Make sure you're working with a reputable organization
will text your credit. But also make sure that you
have insurance around it, you know, identity step protection. You know,

(13:25):
getting your identity back can cost over a million dollars sometimes,
and so you know, I mean it depends you one
hundred thousand million, you know wherever, how widespread that is.
So make sure you have insurance, you know, with whoever
you're working with. And again for your kids. You have
to make sure that you do that for your kids.
If you if you don't, if you haven't done it,
do it today, right because right because it's it's a

(13:47):
growing problem.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Because you're young, you don't, you're not, thank you, you know,
you haven't pulled any credit yet, and so I don't
need to lock my credit down.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
But all they need is a social Security number. And
you know, you can be sixteen, seventeen, eighteen and they
can use that social We've seen them use it for
dead people and newborns. Why not teenagers? We just don't
think of.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
It right, right?

Speaker 5 (14:04):
And the other thing too is you know what you know,
want your kids, you turn a team, you know, help them,
put them on your credit card as well, and and
then that way they have some if something does happen
where their identity is stolen, you at least have some
good credit that is built then so they can they
can bounce it off, you know, set them up for success.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
But yeah, it's you know, you know this data.

Speaker 5 (14:25):
Is so widespread companies just I'll just say companies do not.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
Protect data the way they're supposed to.

Speaker 5 (14:31):
And and a lot of it isn't their fault in
the sense of what we were talking about earlier. It's
they're the ones that made the decision to choose the
technology or the solutions that they put in, but they
don't have the skill set to do the due diligence
to it, or they don't have the budget to purchase
the things they need, and so it is a growing problem.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
It's going to keep.

Speaker 5 (14:50):
Getting worse until there's a lot more accountability in place.
But then with accountability comes regulation, and with regulation there's
somethings less, less flexibility. So yes, it's a fine line.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Chris Nihi, CEO of Vigilant Cybersecurity and Cincinnati, always enjoy
the conversation the especially the eye opening information.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
I appreciate you, Nik, I appreciate you, great guy.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
I had some good news over and I we didn't
get that a little bit of snow we're expected for
the commute this mornings, so that was kind of nice,
nice little surprise this morning, nice little surprise. We'll get
a news update in the latest and forecast, especially travel
weather too. Know a number of people are going up
and myself included to Buffalo for the Bengals game. Should
be fantastic, and I have some observations about our weather

(15:32):
fear not totally unfounded. We'll get into that next and
best spot in Buffalo to get wings if you're headed
up there, you like where they get? Where do they
get the good wing? Play aware coming up next, Slooney
seven hundred WW Scott's Show. This is seven hundred w
W back half the week. All good, you good, I'm good,
you good. Okay, We're good, We're good. This is not

(15:53):
something else gonna make you feel much older today, Sony
PlayStation turns thirty thirty years old.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
Of the PlayStation play stays on.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
And now you know, back in the day, it was
just the gaming console and you played against a computer
or a buddy. And now, of course you know, it's
a whole online gaming culture and it influences movie, TV shows,
fashion now too as well. So the technology absolutely amazing.
Still the PlayStation two remains the best selling console of
all time, because I remember when that rolled out, it's like, oh,

(16:25):
you gotta get the PlayStation two. Why well, it's got
DVD player, and now before it's like five and to five.
You know, you got different multiplayer oxtionens and different games
and stuff. But it's a whole Yeah, it's really turned
into a whole culture. And so thirty years old the PlayStation, however,
I am old enough to go, wow, my first look, well,

(16:45):
I think we had a tart like the early attar
when the first ataris some of My dad got one
and we played the hell out of that thing back
in the day, you know, pac Man and especially Space
Invaders and stuff. But I think the best one memory
for me anyway was the remember the Sega had a
Sega play like NHL ninety four non stop.

Speaker 4 (17:02):
It was great, and that was state of the art
back in the day.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
For sure.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
You're like, wow, this is so realistic, and now you
know the players, it looks like real life. It's it's
incredible how much better the technology gets, like every release,
every new release at something else. Also news wise today,
the story that is it was initially kind of like, oh,
that's what a story, but now it's turned entirely tragic.

(17:25):
So the stolen Middletown police cruiser recovered in Independence, turn
out the person who stole it stabbed an individual Middletown
thirty times, and when the cops showed up, Middletown police
showed up to respond, he snuck around and stole the cruiser.
He has been captured, as I said, though in independence
and a bunch of departments alerted to be on the
lookout for a cruiser. Yeah, and you know, before it

(17:47):
turned into an attempted murder. I don't know what the outcome.
I can't say I missed the whole story there or
the I know the guy was stabbed thirty times. I'm
sure it was fatal or not. You'd think it would be,
but hopefully it's not. Is that what a story that
would be outside of the attempted homicide? Like, what is
going through your mind? They're like, I'm going to steal
this police car because initially before the story out there

(18:08):
was an attempted murder?

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Was it?

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Somebody just took the car and enjoy road And I
was like, okay, well you left it running. What's going
on now? Typically, you know, not always, but you know
they will they lock the car. But some situation like this,
obviously you're trying to respond to a life or desk situation,
so that explains it, but guy jumps in the car
takes off with it, like, you know that's not gonna
end well, right, because first of all, you know they

(18:30):
have GPS on it. I would think you also have
every other agency in the state, and while actually in
probably two or three states with that matter, not just Ohio,
but Kentucky and Indiana. Bolo goes out, Okay, we're looking
for a Middletown suv. It's not like it's just hey,
is we're looking for a white suv? That'd be hard
difficulty level gets much much better easier gameplay when it's

(18:55):
got Middletown police all over it and you're driving through Kentucky.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
Ignore.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Let would stand out in at one point they were
driving with the with the lights activated, and maybe the
person driving is like, hey, I know me to get
a cop, but what the hell, it's gonna be a
great story. I'm rolling in, you know, try to kill
someone and I'm rolling and a stolen police car. I
might as well turn the lights and sirens on. I
might as well get maximized the fun here and obviously
taking to the custody there. So good it was get

(19:19):
that that idiot off the street, you know, what but
it makes sense. I was like, okay, I got to
get away. The only thing available would be a police car. Okay,
that makes sense. I was thinking initially it was parked somewhere,
I'll run in to get a cup of coffee, go
to the bathroom, whatever, And someone stole a police car, Like,
you're just asking asking for trouble.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
They're asking for trouble.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yesterday we had residents of Victory Vista apartments and Paddo
Hills showing up to council because the new owners are
I guess the developers. Anyway, there's a threat that they
could double or triple their current rent payments. Now it
is the land on myself, I go, wow, what what
are you doing that would cause you to have to
double or triple your current rent payment? So their city council,

(20:02):
the mayor mayor after a puirval, was pretty outrage about this,
saying it's wrong and he's furious and potentially predatory, and
I'm all for everybody getting their money, but this, even
this is something that gives the landlord's a bad name.
But also the fact of the matter is it's just
it's confiscatory, is what it is. Doubling or tripling the rent.

(20:22):
I mean, how much were we paying like a dollar
a month before, right, I mean how much I would
think I was like pretty close to it may be
below fair market value, okay, you know, we want to
kind of keep up, and there's expenses and everything else,
and not everyone who's the landlord is an evil, you know,
moniacal mustache, twirling money baron for crying out Loud'm just

(20:42):
trying to make a profit here. But he said he
we're gonna take action or city's looking at action. And
this is from where it was Local twelve head of
the store. I did an interview with him and the
developer though the buildings developer kingsleyan Company is one of
the principles in that company is Chiddenman duke Way. Of course,
Chinman Dukeway was central in the PG Sittenfeld arrest. Now,

(21:07):
of course those charges no longer they all dismissed. He's
out of jail. And now you start wondering, well, maybe
it wasn't PG. Maybe it was Chittleman Duke Way. Is
there's maybe he's the guy that's driving. So they developed
the building and they had federal tax money involved a
million dollar capital grant from the city, and they received
a one tax abatement over fifteen years from the city

(21:29):
based on the estimated two and a half million dollar
worth of the of the building after it was built.
And so in the abatement application they said without it,
they we'd be about a million two short on it,
and so they gave a taxibatement to make up the difference.
And they also said, by the way, it's like, well,
we're not increasing rent right now, We're going to wait
till after the first year.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
Well, you know it is.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
I want to point this out, but it's December fourth.
Well I'm technically we're not going to do it right now.
That would be but starting January first, double or triple.
I don't think I've ever heard that one before where
your rent has gone up double or triple. Maybe in
you know, out west or something where the real estate
is ridiculously expensive out there and the cost rentals are
ridiculous expensive, but certainly not here in the Midwest alone Cincinnati, Like,

(22:15):
what do you do? Why would you double or triple
the rent at this point? I don't know if it's
you know, I don't know, it's like a total I
don't know entirely about the building Victory Vista Apartments. But
typically if you're doing this, is that a remodel is
it a complete build? And I don't know how you
went in factor that in and during the cost thing,
it just seems like you're asking for trouble, taking the
tax money and then doubling or tripling the rent. If

(22:37):
indeed that is the story, So we'll find out for sure,
but that is a disturbing story, and especially when it's seniors,
it's just not a good look for you as a
business person for sure.

Speaker 4 (22:46):
Also, I have this story here.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
I love a good prank, You love a good prank,
and it seems like we are in the post prank
era because everyone takes a prank so freaking seriously. Now,
I understand if there's something whether someone's in danger to
do something that's you know, like the what's the one
teams are doing now that the you know, knock on
the door, you know, palm the door with your foot
or something like that and people come out and now

(23:09):
people are getting shot over it. Now, you know, if
you're damaging the door, that's one thing, but you know,
knocking and running ding dong ditch basically is what it is.
We used to do that back in the day, not today,
you know, people getting shot.

Speaker 4 (23:20):
Over things like that.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
We've taken a little bit more seriously and than it
should be, and we also take any prank. What's over
now is like some sort of act of youd think
they're eligibly be interned in Gitmo or something like that. Right,
but I saw this one a while that that is
definitely something I'm going to replicate. So this is out
I think in the Northeast, and they're digging up a

(23:44):
I don't know, it's a concrete foundation or something concrete.
So they're breaking up concrete and they find a human
skull in the concrete. So everything on the job it stops.
I don't know how big a project it was, so
it looked like maybe some of the pictures it was
a some sort of yard remodel, something along those lines,
maybe doing an addition on a house. Didn't look like
it was commercial. But nonetheless, and they find a skull,
a human skull in the concrete. Well that's gonna stop

(24:07):
work right there. We're gonna shut this down. So they
come in and investigate a look at it. They pull
it out like okay, well, worker zooms. They send it
to the forensic laboratory. The corner's looking at it, they're
doing sampling. They find out it was a fake skull. Now,
immediately I heard that one. That is brilliant. I mean,
you want to talk about a long play, like the

(24:30):
longest play prank, because normally you put concrete down, it's
gonna be there for a minute, it's it's gonna be
there well forever. Or you know, if you're doing a dack,
let's say, and you're putting you know, peers in a pielone,
whatever it is, you put that in and you go,
it's gonna be you know, twenty thirty years before somebody
breaks us up. That is a long play on a gag.

(24:53):
But so from now, and I look, by the way
I looked on Amazon, you can get a lifelike looking
human skull made a plastic made a resin for about
eighteen bucks. Now to me, that's a sound investment. There's
nothing better than a good prank, especially a prank where
it's such a long like I'll be dead by the

(25:13):
time somebody unearths this and goes, oh my god, it's
a human skull and then finds out it's a resin.
Maybe put a note inside the skull, like gotcha or
something like that, so somebody in the future will be
digging up. I don't know, not that I'm digging, you know,
putting a lot and saw a lot of concrete a
foreign slab and maybe put it below it or something
like that. But that would be unbelievable. I mean you

(25:34):
would if you're on the job right of your contractor
you're shaking your head, probably laughing, going that would be
an unbelievable plant. I wouldn't I won't be there to
see it, but just knowing that it is going to
pay dividends in the future to me worth the eighteen bucks,
worth the eighteen bucks every time out of more seriously,

(25:54):
I might have to get someone on the show next week.
I'm off Monday going up to Buffalo for the game,
but on Tuesday maybe. And I think I had George
laying out of Westchester on this. I was kind of
all for this.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
Did you have a job when you're a kid?

Speaker 7 (26:08):
I did.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
My first job was in high school I think goes
like maybe sixteen years old, and it was one of
those deals where you would, you know, go to school
for half the day and then go to work for
the other half. Because I'm not an academic guy. I
couldn't wait to get at school. And it was great
because you know, at that age you're making your own
money and it's the best time of your life. The
best job sometimes is the first job because you literally

(26:29):
are you know, you're living at home. Usually mom, you're
not really contributing anything. Mom and Dad are paying for food.
They're paying the mortgage on the house. It's probably not
your car, or maybe that is. You got to pay
for gas or insurance. Normally that money is pure profit
for you. So you know, you go nuts, you learn
how to manage money and that stuff. So the proposal
was here at the state level and this passed had

(26:49):
Senate Bill fifty that would allow teenagers to work until
nine pm on school nights, as long as they had
permission from their parents or legal guardians. And the law
the way laws right now, if you're fourteen and fifteen,
you are prohibited working past seven pm during the school year,
during during school weekends or whatever. It's fine, but seven
o'clock is the curfew for you. If you're a fourteen
or fifty year old. Workplace and they said, well, why

(27:11):
don't we make that nine o'clock? And you would think,
I don't know why dwine vetoed this other than saying
in the quote, is I believe it's unwise to bribe
for fourteen and fifty year olds to work on a
school night, that late at night. I see no compelling
reason to deviate from current law. Someone from the Children's
Defense Froent of Ohio said, but simply a children should

(27:31):
not have to be the solution to adult problems. What
the hell does that even mean? I know, the Fair
Labor Standards Act prohibits fourteen and fifteen year olds from
working before it's it's federal law before seven or after
seven in school year seven am seven pm. And there's
exemptions there too, annual revenues family businesses. But yeah, there's

(27:53):
another thing too. You know, you see a lot of kids,
especially the restaurants, mom and pop restaurants, ethnic restaurants, where
the kids are there a table, you know, looking at
their iPad or coloring or doing homework or whatever it is,
and sometimes maybe taking the garbage out or doing some work,
probably long before they're fourteen or fifty. Farmers another great
example of that. But that's different, Like, well, all right,

(28:13):
so this is just about urban kids, and I would
look at this going well, Number one is, and this
is where I deviate from Democrats and Republicans.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
Is that I believe you, as a parent, you have
the right to screw up your kid.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Now I'm not talking about it, you know, and we've
criminalized some things that should be criminalized, quite honestly, Like
if you decide that you know your kid wants to
eventually it's and we have to have a minimum age
for this obviously, but you know, you decide that you
know your your son is probably wants to be a girl,
or vice versa, or that seems like a parnal decision

(28:49):
to me. Now I look at that and go, you know,
I'm glad I'm not in their shoes. It's gonna be
a difficult thing to navigate, but I think most parents
try to do brother kids and you know, having the
state take that away or make a decision there, to me,
that cuts to the core of what we're talking about here,
and that is the nanny state. You can't be against
the nanny state when it's someone else, when someone you

(29:10):
disagree doing it, and for it when it's something else.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
It doesn't work that way. They just leaving the state
out of it.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Seems to work best parents always make not always, but
parents make bad decisions from time to time. Of course,
there are many parents who always make bad decisions. But
in this case, I look at it going, all right, Well,
if mom and dad are fine with your kid, with
your fourteen year old working till nine o'clock, I mean
it's not midnight, two am, the overnight shift. You're talking

(29:37):
about nine pm. And if you're going to do this
and go okay, fine, we're going to nanny state this,
then should we not outlaw any student activities past nine pm.
My nephew played sports and sometimes his practices didn't start
till eight or nine o'clock at night because that's the

(30:00):
only time they could get, you know, in case hockey
ring space. And there are times where you you have
that it's like well I can't or you know, you're
working on you're in the gym, working on your free
throws till seven, eight, nine o'clock at night. I mean,
what if you in your driveway doing that, did the
police come and arrest you because your kid is at
nine oh one they're shooting free what thell's the difference
gets you're still participating sports and extracurriculars at that time.

(30:22):
If someone chooses to work some other and the other
somehow they're being exploited.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
No, they're not.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
If mom and dad will say it's okay for you
to work at fourteen or fifteen, that is none of
the business. But anyway, but mom and dad, I'm sorry.
We've got a time out of We got news on
the way in just minutes. We've got some political news
going on here too. And history is always the best
indicator of future behavior, especially are we in the new
age of McCarthyism. Guests to talk about that next year

(30:47):
in the scots Land Show seven hundred WWT Cincinnati, Do
you want.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
To be an American idiot?

Speaker 2 (30:52):
He's got a flow shore here on seven hundred WLW.

Speaker 4 (30:55):
We have culture wars.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
We have free speech protests on campus, we have free
speech safe spaces on campus. We have the erosion of
political decorum. If you look at it, it looks like
some I don't know, sometimes lawmakers and elected officials act
like some third world types where they're throwing shoes at
each other and flinging poo like monkeys. We have canceled culture,

(31:17):
all this stuff, and it's been bruined for quite some time.
The question is are we living in a new era
of McCarthy As a senator, Joe McCarthy goes back to
the nineteen fifties. It was called the Red Scare back then,
if you remember from school, and it was basically going
after communism, and there's a lot of feels a lot
of people believe that we're going through the second era
of this, although no one's really stood up to be

(31:39):
the new Joe McCarthy. Clay Risen writes about this in
Red Scare and joins the show now on seven hundred
WW and Clay, welcome to the show. And it is
an absolute fact that history almost always repeats itself, isn't
that true?

Speaker 7 (31:53):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Scott. You know, when I
sat down to write this book, I really wanted to
write a book of history, and it is, but it
turns out I was also writing current events in a
way every day brings a new parallel.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, you know, some fifty plus sixty years later, we're
doing this again. So for those of them have forgotten
since grade school or college. Shoe McCarthy, a senator, from Wisconsin,
I believe, rose to national prominence in the nineteen fifties.
There are a lot of political circumstances that allowed that
to occur. You know, we had the Cold Wars post
World War Two. Tensions with the US and Soviet Union

(32:29):
escalated pretty rapidly immediately after the war. We're very afraid
of communism and nuclear annihilation and espionage, and there were
actual a bunch of real Soviet espionage cases that started
in the nineteen forties and continued in the fifties. China
fell to communism during that period of time as well,
and there's an opportunity there, right.

Speaker 7 (32:50):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, I think one of the things
that people need to keep in mind is there was
a there there. I mean, as you point out, the
threat from the Soviet Union in the Cold War was real,
and the Communist Party in the United States were bad
actors for the most part. And uh, you know, there
really were Soviet spies in the US government, although most

(33:11):
of them were gone and had you know, turned or
stopped their work at the time the Red Scare started.
But that's all true. But also it was an excuse
in you know four people like McCarthy. But there were
lots of others to take up this mantle, this this
this tool and use it for opportunism, uh, you know,

(33:35):
to advance their own careers, to go after political enemies,
to make up political enemies. A lot of the people
who suffered during the Red Scare had done nothing at
all and were simply tarnished by guilt by association.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
And that ended.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
I think there's a congressional hearing and national television and
McCarthy basically when I think ever for like Eisenhower called
a communist or something.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
Like that's something crazy, like people like what.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Someone else?

Speaker 7 (34:04):
No, No, it was well, Eisenhower was sort of behind
the scenes that he never liked McCarthy, and Eisenhower didn't
really buy into the Red Scare, although he uh, you know,
did his fair share of of red bating, but he
never thought that this was really a threat, and he
saw McCarthy as a real problem for the country, but
he was unwilling to really stand up and take him

(34:26):
on directly. He didn't think that was becoming of a president,
and so he sort of pulled strings to help arrange for,
like you said, a hearing where it was actually a
private sector lawyer who was hired. This is the this
involved the army. It's a long story, but its lawyer
Joe Welch, who himself kind of arranged almost an ambush.

(34:50):
He was quite the actor, quite the courtroom officionado, and
he arranged for a trap basically to make McCarthy uh
lash out at a young staffer and he then said
have you no decency at Long Leaps? Or He had
this great speech that he unfinded on national television and

(35:12):
people got to see sort of the ugly side of
all this. Right, McCarthy was one thing in Prince People
saw him on TV. And you're right that in a
way not only undermined McCarthy, but undermined everything that the
Red scare, that that ardent anti communists were going for.
It really took a lot of wind out.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
Of the sales.

Speaker 7 (35:33):
But you know, yeah, it's a it's a very dramatic moment.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
All right.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
So that Clay, that's okay. So that's a history point
of worry histing lesson. I feel like I should have
a chalkboard out or something like that. But we were like,
oh yeah, okay, I remember this whole thing. That's the background.
So how does that translate to today.

Speaker 7 (35:50):
Well, I think you know, a lot of the things
that we see popping up today are you follow the
same playbook, right, So, whether it's legislation that is still
on the book, or whether it's just uh, you know,
tactics that people in the administration or or in uh
Congress or just out in the media are are using

(36:13):
in terms of guilt by association, in terms of uh hyperbole,
and you know, so they are echoes.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
But I also think that.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Give me an example of that. What do you talk specifically?

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Well, okay, so I mean.

Speaker 7 (36:27):
I'll give you an example. You know, when we had
the uh, the the scare around Haitian immigrants in Ohio, right,
and you know, they're they're eating dogs or cats or whatever.
And there was a point where, uh, you know, there's
a point where Jade Vance as the time a senator said, uh,

(36:48):
you know, it doesn't matter whether what you know. He said,
I I believe this. I'm saying that some people gave
him proof that it wasn't true. He said, what doesn't
matter whether what I say is true or not. That's
up to you the media, to prove me wrong. And
essentially he was saying exactly what McCarthy was doing, was saying,
you know, fifty seventy years ago, saying, I'm going to
throw a bunch of stuff out there, this incendiary and

(37:12):
see what sticks. And if it doesn't, I'll say more
stuff and and it's up to you public politicians, whatever
to to figure it out. But you know, implicit in
that is I'm gonna say whatever I want, truth be damned,
and we'll see where it goes. Right, And that to me,
one hundred percent McCarthy playbook it is.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
But I'll push back a little there living in Ohio
and we're talking about town that is, you know, literally
maybe thirty minutes from where I live right now, and
I I agree with you up to that point. It
certainly what you're saying is wait, what they're eating dogs?
And what are we talking about over here? And it
became a it became a joke, became a meme on
social media. But that kind of like I'm gonna come here,

(37:55):
I'm gonna come to Ohio, We're gonna and it never
happened number materialize because you know, they're on something else.
Is typical and our short attention span theater. But McCarthy
would continue to bang the drum over the people over
particular people he thought he had agendiicans in conjunction, by
the way, with Jay Edgar Hoover, where the FBI had
total autonomy to do whatever the hell they want. I mean,

(38:16):
you want to talk about an era of time in
the nineteen forties, fifties, sixties, and even in the seventies
where the FBI and or Hoover had incredible power, every
unconstitutional power to investigate and bill dossiers and use that.
Hoover used that as like a personal weapon against people
he didn't like or for his allies as well. Now,

(38:37):
I will say, similar to the Haitian argument, we're seeing
that play out with Somalis in the attack on the
soldiers in DC.

Speaker 4 (38:44):
But it's too early to tell.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
If you if the FBI's involved, they start making this
huge case against the month, I think that would be
a valid point, But I don't think the Springfield one works.

Speaker 7 (38:54):
No, that's true, And you know it's interesting to think about, well,
what was worse than what's worse now? And I think, yes,
the FBI. We'll see, the FBI at the moment is
much more constrained than it was back then, and we
don't have a Hoover, who has really unchecked power.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
That's great.

Speaker 7 (39:17):
There are a lot of things that come out of
the Red Scare that I want to say are sort
of good in the sense that we had a better
awareness of the risks to civil liberty and you know,
the need for strong defense of freedom, speech, freedom of association.
And you know, so back then you didn't have organizations

(39:39):
that would stand up on behalf of people who were targeted.
They were basically on their own. And it's one of
the really harrowing parts of that story. Today, someone gets
targeted by the media or by Ice or by Justice Department,
and there are armies of lawyers who will stand up
for them, and so that good, and we'll see how

(40:02):
that plays out. But at the very least, you say, well,
the annibodies from the Red Scare are also activated. And
I think that's an important metaphor to keep in mind.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Got Clay Risen is here books called Red Scare, and
it starts with McCarthyism in the nineteen fifties, of course,
and post World War two anxiety and the Soviets and
the fall of China, the communism, the Big Red Scare,
and how Senator McCarthy of Wisconsin used that to go
after people he had an agenda against, and it got
way out of control but ended in short period and

(40:34):
were as premises we're going to do. We're kind of
doing that again right now in this era when it
comes to McCarthyism and blacklists and stuff like that. So okay,
so this is all driven by the fear of and
it came on rather quickly because we had lot of
people coming back to americ who fought in the war
World War two, and now you're seeing our ally turn
into our enemy. Kind of similar today to what we're saying.

(40:55):
Maybe kind of the inverse is true with Russia under
Donald Trump, But what's the communist threat? So it's communism
isn't really the threat because okay, we're trying to repair
things with Russia. The greater enemy, and I agree with
Trump on this one, is China. They're in for the
long play and you look at all the from intellectual
property theft and everything else they're doing. It's a long,

(41:15):
slow boil for China. They really are the greater threat,
I think to our way of life than Russia is
because Russia can come along. You may disagree with that,
but we're not battling communism anymore. It might be socialism.
I'm pretty soon about that recent elections, but it's certainly
not communism.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
What are we fighting?

Speaker 7 (41:32):
Yeah, I think today and again, you know, no Mark
Twain said, you know, history doesn't repeat itself, but it
does rhyme, right, Yeah, and so things are similar, but
there are important differences. You always want to keep that
in mind. So, you know, today, I think it's less
about an X in terms of the way people are
constructing the quote unquote threat. It's less about a foreign

(41:55):
threat another country. It's more about a you know what
Trump calls, you know, the radical left, the dei left,
the woke left, all of this, and it's a fairly expansive,
vague term, right, So I'm kind of anybody who's sort
of Trump's enemy, I think would end up falling under this.

(42:15):
And and it's hard to put a finger on what
that is. But back in the forties and fifties, what
was communism? People didn't actually know on a nay to
day basis what it meant to be a communist, And
so if you were a civil rights advocate, you would
be called a communist, right right, So so all of
these are just terms that are useful to.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Go after enemies.

Speaker 7 (42:35):
So that's why that's why I think we're seeing in
terms of the parallels. And you know, you see that
in education and the way that we talk about education
today and the threat of DEI and woke schools and whatnot,
and that's that's that's very similar to the way people
talked about communist teachers and radical left teachers in the

(42:56):
teen forties and fifties.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Okay, but let me wrap clay. But the different is
we had a foreign adversary then. It was us against them.
It was good versus evil. It was the United States
against Russia and atomic warfare and all this stuff. We're
talking about internal fighting and against you know, the Fall
of Rome. We can get back to that too. Let's
face it was a real at the time. You know
who started this. Actually, we wouldn't have this opposition, and

(43:18):
I agree with it. It's absurd to times, the Haitian
immigrant things and some of the other stuff. It's just
absurd as what it is. But the reaction is to
what liberals did years ago. I mean, it seems like
it's a generation ago, but we had cancel culture, right,
and you know, you transgress these loosely defined and ever
changing line. No one knows who the line is anymore.
And what I said when I was fifteen years old

(43:38):
on Twitter now comes back to haunt me when I'm
you know, twenty seven years old or something like that.
Dave Chappelle gets killed and canceled because he makes remarks
about transsexuals, and that was only four years ago. Kevin Heart,
same thing, what be Goldberg? And long time ago, back
in the old days, Senator Al Franken had a picture

(43:58):
of him looking kind of woman. He got thrown out
of Senate by liberals. So and then you know, this
started to take root in schools, and so this is
the reaction to the I guess what you could call
is the overreactive left.

Speaker 7 (44:12):
Well, I mean, you're right, And again going back to
what we talked about with communism, there was a there
there right in the sense that not just there was
a Communist threat for not just the Soviet Union as
a military threat, but domestically, you know, we had there
were spy the Communist Party took money from Russia and

(44:33):
did its bidding in the United States, and so you know,
were those threats not really I mean, Rosenberg's are a
special case, but generally these five are not very effective.
You know, it was blown out of a proportion, and
I think that that you have that today too. Yeah,
And that's my perspective, right, is that, yes, absolutely, there
are lots of excesses and criticisms about the I culture,

(45:00):
cancel culture or whatever you know that I know exactly,
and I'm sympathetic to that. But what we're seeing now
I think is a blowing out of proportion and a
using of that as an excuse to go after people
who an ideas that have nothing to do with that,
you know. So, so I think we're seeing a rollback
of civil rights protections that have been around since the

(45:22):
fifties and sixties under the pretense that those are suddenly
now part of woe culture and they're not.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
But I think it's a fair and I think it's
a fair allegation.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
I think mainly as we have government, and this is true,
completely have lost touch with the electorate, you know, and
we look at how Joe Biden, Kamala Harris lost and
that is the humors that they exhibit. Exhibitors, well, people
that listen to my show, people live in our area, Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana.
It's like, well, we're in trouble here economically speaking, or
maxim on our credit cards. I can't find a house.

(45:55):
I can't and we're worried about this, this feel good,
these field good policies that led to the Trump movement
for the second time, going okay, we're gonna go back
to the other guy now, like rats on a sinking ship.
We just keep jumping back and forth. I don't know
if you're going to see a two term president anytime soon.
Quite honestly, we'll see tech Trump. You know, technically Trump is,
but it's like, okay, of lesser evil you're in and

(46:16):
that's kind of and it feels like me, that's what
like democrats are doing now, going well, okay, well, way
for Trump to mess up, and then we'll get the
NOD and we'll come and screw it up and we'll
just play back and forth. And meanwhile the rest of
the country sinking, I mean stock markets and he falling
apart right now. It's like, we need some damn leadership,
is what we need.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Clay, Yeah, no, I agree.

Speaker 7 (46:34):
And it reminds me a little bit of you know,
I read a book about you back in the day
and it reminds me a little bit of the late
nineteenth century, when you know, we went we had a
bunch of one term presidents now for a variety of reasons,
but we did, and the full actorate was all over
the place, and we had some real economic challenges. And
Theodore Roosevelt comes along and you know, represented new type

(46:56):
of leadership and you know, had his enemies, of course,
but was also immensely popular because he understood what the
country needed. He understood the country needed a different type
of leadership. And you know, I think really reset what
it meant to be president, what it meant to have
a federal government. I mean, I think, you know, I'm
a partisan and biased, but I think Roosevelt was one

(47:17):
of our you know, top five best presidents ever. And
that's why, because understood America needed good leadership. And so
I think something, you know, I don't want to say
exactly what this would look like, but we need a
new Theatore Roosevelt. Now, you know, he needs someone who
can come along and say, look, I understand what I
understand what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. There's

(47:39):
a through line and there's a solution but it's going
to be different from what we've done in the past.
And you know, I think we're going to keep looking
for that person until until they come along.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
And I don't know, I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Teddy Roosevelt my all time favorite president because he was
he's the guy that stepped and said, look, you know
what we can today get killed for, you know, protecting
national parks and some of the what liberals do.

Speaker 7 (48:00):
He did.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
But you know he'd come in and say, look, he
told he said, listen, you know, we want business succeed
and thrive, but we're going to crack down on the
barons basically and make where the rules are going to
play equal to everybody, which is kind of what we
need in America. Boom under under tr And not only that,
he's a tough son of a bitch because he got
shot and still gave a speech said here, hold my bear,
I'm gonna talk for a couple hours.

Speaker 7 (48:19):
So that was.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
Fantastic, one of the greatest moments in American history. That's
a real tough guy right there. Hey, yeah, I don't
have to tell you about the Battle of you right
up San Juan Hill and everything else. Clay Rising scread
Scare blacklist, McCarthy's in the making of modern America. History
is repeating itself. I kind of agree with that. Clay
all the best, thanks for joining the show. All I think, Yeah,
you know, we had the de EI nonsense come in

(48:40):
and went way overboard. Inclusion is fine, but the extremes
that they went and then the way they absolutely persecuted
people who went against the tide of problematic. But now
we're kind of seeing that somewhat with Republicans and conservatives
that you know, used to be the liberal snowflakes and
the snowflag. I know there's a lot of snowflaky stuff
that conservatives are doing now. So I think it's the

(49:01):
you know, the people in charge me a change, but
that same ideology is there, and I don't know, I
think that's necessarily a good thing.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
We got a news update run a little bit late.
I's always hear Scotslane back in about seven here right
after a traffic and weather update seven hundred WLW Scott
Flung Show on seven hundred w LW Thursday morning, we
have Sanjay Shiva Carimani in. He's an emergency medicine position
here in Cincinnati, at Dine Well Dock and we do
the same went on Thursdays. Now we're healthing, food and
fitness kind of all come together and collide in this

(49:30):
time of year. Your challenge because you're getting really really
good food necessarily good for you. Uh, probably not maybe
getting as much exercise, but if you do, it's gonna
involve shoveling the white stuff on top of icy sidewalks
and streets. So what could possibly go wrong with that equation? Sanja?

Speaker 4 (49:46):
How you been brother?

Speaker 7 (49:48):
Good?

Speaker 1 (49:48):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (49:49):
I'm doing fine. I shovel snow. I haven't fallen broken
a hip or anything along those lines. But there's always
next snowfall. There's always next time.

Speaker 8 (49:57):
Yeah, we can only hope, right, I'm just kidding. I mean,
it is a it is an interesting time in the
emergency department when it comes to the winter weather.

Speaker 4 (50:06):
Do you see a lot of hypothermia cases?

Speaker 8 (50:09):
You know, we don't see that many, fortunately. I think
a lot of people know what to do. I think,
you know, we do see some every year, though, and
that's it's a it's a problem when it happened.

Speaker 3 (50:20):
You see.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
Yeah, I mean we're not to that bitter part. That'll
be January Februey, Right, it would take a lot to
do that right now. Not necessarily, it's not true, but
you tend to see it. Do you not see it
more in older people younger people, doesn't matter a little.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
Bit of both.

Speaker 8 (50:35):
It's it's definitely an older they're more at risk. Could
just have a harder time kind of keeping the body
temperature up, and you know, their skin is thinner and
so they're exposed to the elements more. But you know,
it's not just necessarily January or February. I mean even
at this time, because of the sudden drops in temperature,
people get you know, caught by surprise, and then they
can even fall this in the hypothermia. Now, so it's

(50:57):
always good to be vigilant and dress some layers. There's
our always told us to do and we never did.

Speaker 7 (51:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
Well it was like me, I realized, you know, because
we had just moved and I have I think I
had my winter coat still in the box.

Speaker 4 (51:08):
I'm like, I don't know where any of the stuff
I got a very who I have been a patient.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
At them, but I know, like the first one of
the first indications would be disorientation.

Speaker 8 (51:16):
Right, It's well, I mean disorientation will actually come fairly late.
And the reason is our body tries to protect our brain,
and so you know, it'll do everything it can to
keep your brain intact. And then you know, by the
time you get to disorientation, you're you're pretty far down
the way, and so before you get there, you really
want to, you know, focus on what else could be

(51:37):
going on, Like, am I one? You know it sounds simple,
but am I feeling cold? And if you're feeling cold,
find ways to warm up, whether it be going inside
if you can, or get another layer, but certainly removing
yourself from the elements that that first sign of, you know,
even just feeling a little colder than normal, or maybe
your fingertips are or facet are getting numb, and that's
the it's kind of one of the first warning signs

(51:58):
before your brain starts to go.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Say that's just me, though, I wait until I'm disoriented
til I go well, I probably should go in.

Speaker 8 (52:06):
And that's what keeps me in business, thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
Like, yeah, you know, I'm used to the call. It's fine.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Does your body over time do you acclimate to the
climate in which you reside. Let's say I don't know,
if you live in northern Canada, let's say, and then
all of a sudden you move to Florida, are you
gonna know that?

Speaker 4 (52:25):
And vice versa? Does it take it? Does your body acclimate?

Speaker 8 (52:28):
Your body does acclimate somewhat. I mean, but you also
you're in your mind acclimates a little too, and you
just know what to expect. I think, you know, living
in a place where we were just what seventy degrees
just a few weeks ago, right, we get thrown off
a little bit, and it's harder to be prepared.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
Kind of year round.

Speaker 8 (52:45):
And you know, when you're always in the cold, you
know what to expect, You're you're ready for it. And
so we are at risk here in Cincinnati of being
caught eye surprise and you know, ending up in the
emergency department.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yeah, is it more dangerous? Is he a dangerous and cold?

Speaker 7 (53:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (53:03):
They both have their risk. I think heat is harder,
you know, it's oftentimes harder to get away from the heat.
It's easier to layer up oftentimes. We definitely, I definitely
in my career have seen much more heat exhaustion, heat
stroke than I have. Cold weather injuries and cold you know,
the cold exposure problem.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Right, But I would say because you're you know, grew
up in Boston, if that would probably reverse if you're in.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
Massachusetts oftentimes, I mean, but.

Speaker 4 (53:33):
Well, we lost you, is there me from Boston?

Speaker 8 (53:35):
You know, we're not used to it. And when you're
not used to something, that's when you're caughty surprised. It's
best to be prepared.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Now, it makes sense. How cold is too cold to
exercise out. I'm gonna exclude shoveling and that kind. We'll
get to that in a second. But like, you know,
you'll see people out there while I'm still training for
the Flying Pig coming up in the spring, and I'm
gonna run when it's you know, twenty degrees blows air.
Is that that smart?

Speaker 7 (53:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (53:56):
It's a tough one because it does vary by age conditioning.
You know, if you're if you are, you know, a
pretty healthy person who runs a lot. Is this weather optimal?

Speaker 1 (54:05):
No?

Speaker 3 (54:06):
Is it a good idea? Probably? Still not?

Speaker 8 (54:09):
But really you know, they've they've actually done some studies
on blood pressure alone, and so like your blood pressure
will raise when you're outside in cold weather, even just
that fifty five degrees, So fifty five degrees outside your
blood pressure will start to rise after about fifteen minutes
of being in that kind of weather. So now that
we're in the thirties, you can imagine your blood pressure
will go much higher, much quicker, and so there are

(54:32):
a lot of factors there. But at the end of
the day, it's about being smart.

Speaker 7 (54:36):
You know.

Speaker 8 (54:37):
Do I exercise outside in this no other than shoveling.
I'd rather be inside of my gym and be in
the comfort of that and staying warm.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
I yeah, when I was in my twenties, was running
outside in pretty cold weather and wound up developing bronx
of your bonchitis and the like. I don't know if
directly from the running, but it screwed my lungs up
for a while. So I'm pretty aware of being out
in you know, getting my blood pressure and heart rate
rate when it's was very cold out.

Speaker 8 (55:02):
Yeah, And so you know, it's partly that getting cold
air into your lungs will make them go into spasm
a little bit. So if you have asthma, COPD and phasma,
you really want to be careful out there. But in general,
just being exposed to the cold, you know, like our
mom would always say, you know you'll get you'll catch
a cold, and I'd be like, Mom, I went to
med school, Like that's not true. It's kind of true.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
So Mom was right.

Speaker 8 (55:25):
The thing being is that the cold will impact your
immune system and that makes you more susceptible to getting cold.
So you know, if you won't get a virus from
the outsides, but your immune system will be damaged by
the exposure to cold.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
So you also want to be careful with that.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
So if you're cold and your body's fighting it, and
then you go and you're exposed to infection, then you're
more likely to get is what you're.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
Saying exactly exactly right?

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Because immune system is because my mom would when she
was alive, she there'd be like times I went out
with a hat the previous winner and the following winner.
I get sick and she says, because you went out
last year a hat on. Yeah, okay, it's a twelve
month carryover the sickness. She just holds that. She would
hold that card and play it against you. Is it
true we see a lot more heart attacks in the

(56:11):
winter because people out there shoveling. Is or is that
more of a lifetial?

Speaker 3 (56:15):
It's actually true and the reason is a couple folds.

Speaker 8 (56:19):
So what being outside in the cold does in the
first place is actually makes your blood vessels shrink down.
It makes them tight, which increases your blood pressure. So
already you're setting yourself up for something, and then snow
shoveling is actually one of the hardest activities we can do.
Sometimes it doesn't feel like much, but you put a
lot of strain on your heart. Within two minutes you're

(56:40):
at you know, like eighty five percent of your maximal
heart rate, and so it's heavy exercise. You're out in
the cold, and then the cold interestingly, and we all
get into the details, but it makes your blood thicker,
for lack of a better term, and so you're more
likely to have heart attacks when it's cold outside, especially
in the cold snow like four days or so, which

(57:01):
is one of a British studies showed that the heart
attacks and strokes go up after a four day cold snap.
And that's that's the reason why.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
It's because that extra strength doesn't seem like much of
my wad that nice light, fluffy snow this week went
out and shoveled the driveway and you know, it didn't
feel like now they're really heavy stuff. It's a different
story maybe or maybe you get a snowblower. I guess
if you're not used to exercise, you know, that's the
thing you got all of a sudden, you throw yourself into,
you know, the mechanics of lifting, and your body's fighting
the cold.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
You definitely could set yourself up for troubler exactly.

Speaker 8 (57:31):
Like it's a kind of silent exercise, and I mean
I love it for that reason, being barely in shape myself.
Is that the snow can actually add up pretty quickly.
Seven to eight you know inches, is like twenty five
pounds each time you shovel. And so you're doing that work,
You're twisting around, you're using your core, you're using your legs,
and it ends up being a pretty big strain on

(57:53):
the body. I think you burn more than five hundred
calories an hour of shoveling, and so it's a pretty
significant exercise, we're all. But it does lead to that strain.
So it's got it's good and positives, but it's also
got its cons for that reason too.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Yeah, Okay, interesting son Jay Ashaver comandi on the show.
He's our resident physician and health expert, health and fitness.
We talked that and died and everything on Thursday mornings
in the Scott Slone Show. Here on seven hundred WLW,
we're talking about the cold weather because welcome to Cincinnati.
It's seventy one day. The next day it's snow. When
we got five and a half inches of snow. That's
how we roll here. Next thing, No, you'll blink your
eyes will be opening day and summer again, the two

(58:29):
seasons of six.

Speaker 4 (58:30):
We're always on our toes, all right.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
So y'are shoveling? When should you stop? If you're feeling
a little faint, you don't want to kind of plow
through that?

Speaker 4 (58:38):
What typically? What is your when's your body telling you stop?

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (58:42):
The best best treatment is actually a first prevention. So
you know, when you're shoveling again, it is a pretty
big strain on your body, so stop before the symptoms
even start. Ten every ten to fifteen minutes, take a
little rest. And that's how That's how I like to
do most things in Lifeblone. You know, I'm on a
hike and I'll just stare at a tree for a
while and people are like, are you resting? I'm like, no,

(59:02):
I'm enjoying nature, Yes, exactly, you want to really enjoy
the experience. But yeah, every ten to fifteen minutes, take
a break, take a breather, go inside, you know, warm
up if you need to, or just sit there and
admire the work you're doing. But start with prevention first,
and then you know, look out for signs if you know,

(59:23):
even if you're having a little you know, people think
heart attacks feel like chest pain and if they're not
like dying in agony, that they're okay. And and the
truth is one, heart attacks present in a lot of ways,
but the most common reason heart attacks present, especially in males,
is pressure in the chest, not pain. And so they'll
be like, oh, yeah, it's not much. It's just a

(59:44):
little bit of tightness in my chest. That's not my heart.
And the truth is that more likely is is your heart.
So if you start having any chest pressure, trouble breathing, nausea, sweat,
anything like that, it's time to definitely go inside and
not get checked out.

Speaker 4 (59:58):
I'll tell it's scarce.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
You know, if you're like your work out, you're truly
trying to or getting back into it at high recent
was you push it? You know, and get your heart
right up pretty high, you start to have a little
bit of arrhythmia going on there.

Speaker 4 (01:00:08):
That's always pretty scary.

Speaker 8 (01:00:10):
Yeah, you know, even just a few extra beats that
maybe your heart's signaling to you that it's time to
slow down. That could be getting you know, too much exercise,
or also pumping against blood pressure that's too high. So
there's a lot of things that could be causing that.
But once you feel any way different, it's a good
time to be in tuned with your body. If you
feel different, it's time to just shut it down, you know,

(01:00:33):
take stock and decide.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Where to go from there.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
All right, we have not yet talked about what happens
when foot meets ice and you usually see a lot
of wrist, knee, hip injuries. Is that what we're talking about.

Speaker 8 (01:00:43):
You nailed most of them. It's rist and hip, it's
not head. The thing is that, you know, I worked
on the morning of the storm, and people don't come
in then because they know it's snowing. They're going to
stay inside and if they go outside, they're going to
be careful. The problem is actually the day after. That's
what I've experienced in my career, and that's what we're

(01:01:04):
experiencing right now. Mornings after you know, there's black ice
that's formed because it's kind of melted through the day
and then that freezes overnight, and that's when people are slipping, falling,
going boom and coming to me with hips are the
are the biggest victim, and then you know your ankles
and heads as well.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Yeah, that's that's that's pretty scary. You fall down, it's
always okay, Yeah, I think I'm okay the next day
to three to five days, depending on how of you are.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
It's always like, oh my god, I feel terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
I to buy a bus. When should I get medical
help if I after an injury? I mean when when
do I know?

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
When?

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
When do I come see you?

Speaker 8 (01:01:40):
You know, it definitely differs on your your chromobility, So
what other medical conditions you have. You know, if you're
hitting your head and you're un blooded, or you're coming
straight to me, you know, anything that prevents you from
putting weight on a leg is definitely a reason to
come in. But if things are lasting longer than you
would expect them to, or if you have any concerns,

(01:02:01):
it's either time to call your doctor or just come
in and get checked. We you know, we can get
you in and out pretty quick, especially if you're concerned
about a broken bone.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
I generally you kind of know because you can't move
it that my swelling is different. But you know, broken
bone a little bit, a little bit different.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Of course, if you know, if you have a compound fracture,
it's sticking through your skin, AT's a that's a different story.
Entiro that you'd be pretty stupid to sit there and go,
I think it'll be all right, this will be okay.
I just yeah, second man, I'll be good.

Speaker 8 (01:02:26):
It's pretty little index on it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
You'll be fun.

Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's all.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Well.

Speaker 4 (01:02:31):
Yeah, we're just not used to the ice and the
snow and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
And as you get older too, it's awfully, it's more
more difficult to keep your balance and you're more probably
more likely to get injured.

Speaker 4 (01:02:40):
You just don't recover.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
There's nothing like you know, you watch a a four
year old on the ice, they fall down, they cry
for thirty seconds.

Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
There, fine, you do that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
You're on the sideline for two weeks exactly.

Speaker 8 (01:02:50):
And actually you underline one of my main things is
why I you know, try to stay fit which is
keeping balance and so that that equates to strength training
and the legs that also equates to like balance training
with yoga. But all of those things prevent you from
falling or if you fall, helping you get back up
because as we know in the elderly, falls are one
of the main reasons for eventual death unfortunately. And so

(01:03:13):
you know, staying upright as much as you can, doing
the things that build your legs up and your balance
up could be some of the most important things to
you know, extend your life spam you know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
In additionally, our physician here on the show also you
are a health guy and a gym on a gym,
and I think it's interesting. I in some of my
ill last few years, I've seen more more people do this,
and it'd be the test to see just how flexible
you are at any age. And that is getting up
off the floor without using your hands.

Speaker 4 (01:03:40):
Can explain that.

Speaker 8 (01:03:42):
Yeah, so you know that equates to those things we
were just talking about, which is the legs or the
lower extremities, what their strength is like, but also your balance.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
So you need both of.

Speaker 8 (01:03:51):
Those and a strong core to be able to get
off the ground. So you know, I was actually watching
Did you watch that Blue Zones special on Netflix?

Speaker 4 (01:04:00):
I did not know?

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Was that? Okay?

Speaker 8 (01:04:02):
So it was basically this special as a series or
a documentary about these blue zones where people throughout the
world live longer in certain areas. And one of the
things that they were looking at was that, well, the
main thing they were looking at is what are the
factors that lead to a longer life in these blue
zones where people are living longer than average. And one
of the things was actually people getting up from the floor.

(01:04:24):
So in Japan, that's what they do. They sit down
for dinner and they get up the same thing. And
there's a town in Italy where people just walk up
and down hills all day. And you know, they don't
do any formal strength training. They're not across fit or anything,
but they are they're strong in their legs and that
keeps them upright. And so it's one of the most
important things is keeping your leg strength and your stability

(01:04:46):
so you're not falling. It's correlated with the longer and
higher quality of the life.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Gotcha.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
I know one of the you know, one of the
classic exercises that's like anything's it's a fad it comes
back is the Turkish get up. And what you do
is you lay on your bed. You start laying on
your bag. You hold a kettle ball over your head
with one arm and you lock your arm throughout the
whole thing. And then you bend your knee on the
same side as a kettlebell, and then you roll up
on your opposite elbow. You push up to your hand,

(01:05:11):
you bridge your heads up, you sweep your legs out,
you stand up, or you just push the ken ball
of your head and the kettlebell falls back down and
cractioning this call and you go to sleep. There are
two outcomes with that, and generally the second one is
the one I do.

Speaker 8 (01:05:25):
Yeah, it is one of the hardest things I had
to learn, Like, yeah, you just named twenty of the
seventy three steps to do a Turkish get up, but yeah,
they are worth it. They work everything in your body
and again, yeah, it gets that coordination and strength down well.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
But you can do it without the kettlebell too. You know,
you need somebody does it with a fifty pound kettle ball.
I mean, you should probably have your own TV show
if you can do that. But I'm sure you've seen
some people in your gym that can. I'm fascinated about
the whole process. It's awfully difficult to do. The older
you get, the harder it is, oh for sure.

Speaker 8 (01:05:57):
But you know again, like you just pointed out, you
don't need the way. Our body weight is plenty for
a lot of exercises, especially if you're doing it slowly
and deliberately. Your body weight can you know, serve as
a great weight for you, especially me. After the holidays,
there's extra bodyweight there to work out, So thanks, thanks
for all the dinners.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
He's got to burn off that extra three or four
pecan pies, not slices, entire pies. Sevcamanti are a physician, fitness,
diet exercise guy here in the scott Slone. She pops
on Thursday morning, just a left way. I know this
is just the startup of the winter season, but keep
all that influence the back of your head and hopefully
you'll be around to hear the show next year.

Speaker 4 (01:06:36):
Hey man, I appreciate it. We'll check out next week.
Did your brother have a good one?

Speaker 8 (01:06:40):
Sounds gracelan you too?

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Take care, it's a Scott's Loan show. We've got news
on the way in just minutes. It's seven hundred WLW.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
Do want to be an American? All right?

Speaker 4 (01:06:49):
Let me back on seven hundred w WELW.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
We are seeing within the Republican Party Mike Johnson, Speaker
Johnson has grasped on the gap looks not quite as
strong as it used to be. Number of women factor
challenging him. Tennessee just had that election. We're Republican won
by nine points. But the problem is that Trump carried
that just a year ago by twenty two points. Number
of lawmakers are stepping down. Marjorie Taylor Green an example

(01:07:13):
of that too. So not all well in the GOP.
So you're a lot the Democratic brought the GOP as well.
There's a riff there. And you know, we just came
off an election night last month. We had a string
of GOP underperformances in this off year election. So now
you've got Trump activist saying we need more MAGA, not
less MAGA. As a solution of this, a new poll
has come out commissioned by our friends of the Manhattan

(01:07:33):
Institute that shows the deep cracks within the GOP coalition.
You've got what's called a cohesive corps and a less
stable outer ring. I love less stable stuff because it
means there's action going on here. Jesse arm with Manhattan,
How are.

Speaker 3 (01:07:46):
You great to be with you? Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Yeah, appreciate it. Kind of long set up there, but
we've got lots going on. And the thing that jumped
out to me about this was that almost a third
of current Trump and GOP voters are what you call
new entrant Republicans who may have voted Democratic as recently
as twenty six year, maybe even twenty twenty for that man,
what's surprised you most about that particular group when you

(01:08:10):
started looking at the data.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
Yeah, So here's the bottom line.

Speaker 7 (01:08:13):
We were very curious because there's been so much talk
in recent weeks about what is the American right, what
are the fractures within today's GOP, what does it mean
to be MAGA, and is this President Trump's winning coalition
from twenty twenty four capable of remaining intact once the
president exits the stage. So what we did was we

(01:08:34):
went out and we asked nearly three thousand voters nationally,
the vast majority of which we're Republican. We had a
few Democrats in there for comparative purposes, and then we
introduce these large what's called over samples of black and
Hispanic voters, which we account for on the back end
with waiting, But we really wanted to get a clear
picture of the small groups that are Sometimes you don't

(01:08:57):
want to make inferences that are too large out of
sub populations that are too small in a survey. So
all that's to say, this is one of the largest
and most exhaustive survey projects to date of this new
Trump built, multi ethnic working class GOP. And like you said,
Scott's got two main camps that emerge. There's about a
two third majority a little over that constitutes what we

(01:09:21):
think of as traditional Republicans. They're quite conservative on everything
from foreign policy to the economic policy, to social issues.
But there is this sizeable minority, what we're calling new
entrints to the GOP, people who just voted for the
Republican Party for maybe the first time in the last
two presidential cycles, but have we're very likely to have
voted for a Democrat in.

Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
The recent past.

Speaker 4 (01:09:44):
You're talking about, right.

Speaker 7 (01:09:46):
Well, not necessarily, they're a younger block. There are more
diverse block Ethnically, they are more likely to hold progressive
policy views across every major policy domain. But then, somewhat oddly,
they're also a significant share of them are more likely
to report that they are open.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
To racist views or anti Semitic views.

Speaker 7 (01:10:09):
And they express potential support for political violence, and yet
again they are more liberal on policies.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
How do you explain that contradiction.

Speaker 7 (01:10:19):
Well, I think that President Trump brought in people to
the party who are all over the ideological map. And
I don't think it'll be at any surprise for a
lot of your listeners that the racists in American politics
are often not coming from the right most place, and

(01:10:40):
that is an ideological line that is just not neatly
defined all the time. Your listeners probably know this. There
are people in their lives who feel various different ways
about any given issue. And you know, there are two
kinds of factions at play in the national discourse right now.
You've got left wing corporate media type and you've got

(01:11:02):
some of these odd ball types on the real They
want to position themselves on the right, but really they're
kind of flirting with a bunch of nasty things. And
what they both have in common is that they don't
want to see the politically successful coalition for the Republican
Party that Donald Trump put together in twenty twenty four
remain intact for future election cycle.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:24):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
And there's also, i know too in the study here
a generational avide. So if you're on an under fifty
Republican that looks different than plus fifty Republican, I'm pretty
much everything it's dark, whether it's Israel, China, or you know,
traditional vatos political violence. Are there just simply now two
different Republican parties coexisting temporarily?

Speaker 8 (01:11:45):
No.

Speaker 7 (01:11:46):
I think it's going to be up to the next
Republican nominee to stick together a coalition that can work
and win at the national level. President Trump, you know,
some people might be able to pin this in kind
of a endearing light and say that he's very pragmatic.
Someone more hostile as the president might say that he's inconsistent.

(01:12:08):
But there is a fundamental truth to the fact that
President Trump has been sort of ideologically flexible on questions.

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
Over the years.

Speaker 7 (01:12:15):
He's not a man who's afraid to change his mind.
In the first term, one of his signature policy achievements
with Congress was passing the first Stepbacks, which was a
big piece of criminal justice reform. In this term, he's
been much tougher on crime and policing. These National Guard
deployments have been its signature achievement. And in his campaign

(01:12:35):
for office, he ran on a message of no new wars,
but also he's not afraid to use force. Now that
he's in office, he's got a very hawkish posture toward Iran,
towards Venezuela, toward a lot of our adversaries across the globe.
So President Trump's appeal has kind of been his celebrity,
his humor, and also his pragmatic flexibility around issues. What

(01:12:59):
is it going to be for jd.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
Vance or Ted.

Speaker 7 (01:13:01):
Cruz or Mark or Rubio or whoever it is who
becomes the Republican standard bearer in twenty twenty eight. Maybe
they'll bring in a lot of young men the same
way President Trump did in twenty twenty four. Maybe they'll
win back some of the suburban moms that President Trump
lost over the course of his tenure in office. But
politicians have to be created, and if they want to
win at national level, they can't do it with just

(01:13:22):
the base. But the question is who do they add in?
And it's probably pretty unlikely that the next standard bearer
is going to add in that same group that President
Trump would managed to manage to put together.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Jesse ARMC Manhattan Institute on the study, that's a damn.
I wouldn't say impossible. Nothing's impossible. And you know, every
day in politics feels like it's a year these days.
For sure, hardly Trump's only been in office a year.
It feels like I'd spend two terms, maybe four terms
at this point, like FDI, not even yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:13:49):
Right exactly, it's just every day.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
But you look at it, it's the cult of Trump's personality,
the enigma that's Donald Trump.

Speaker 4 (01:13:56):
That's awfully hard to replicate.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
We've seen that tried before with other people, maybe not
till Trump's level, but I'm let's face it, he's not kindoclassed.
You can't replicate that. That's gonna be difficult.

Speaker 7 (01:14:08):
And we'll have to keep in mind that the Democrats
are super eager to finally get their Trump. Don't be
surprised that they nominate somebody in twenty twenty eight who's
willing to fight some heads off and be a creative
communicator and you know, break break the electorate up on
along interesting ideological line. Gavin Newsom is capable of doing that. Hell,

(01:14:29):
even maybe AOT may be capable of doing that. So
hopefully there's a Republican that comes forward with the same
kind of policy entrepreneurship and political creativity that President Trump
is able to possess. But as you and I both
know and your audience knows, that's no easy task.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
Yeah, you surveyed this group three thousand, which is a
really good sample size. By the way, on a point
you may go, oh, that's not that many people, but
that's pretty good on where the GOP is standing, where
they're headed.

Speaker 4 (01:14:55):
I guess right now.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
You tested things like anti semitism and the conspiracy theories,
and I thought the political violence one was particularly interesting.
That more than half of what you're calling the new
entrant Republicans say political violence is justified or can be
justified anyway, and that matches up with those on the left.

Speaker 7 (01:15:11):
Yeah, well, a lot of these people, like I said,
they're younger, and they're more conspiratorial. They've got a more
and once you're more conspiratorial. Another thing that our data
told us is that you're also more likely to excuse
political violence under the right circumstances. So we have to
ask ourselves, right when we're hearing and seeing a lot
of stuff in the news about the evolution of media

(01:15:34):
figures like Tucker Carlson or Canvasz into a transition to
a fully online environment, Well, we have to ask ourselves, like, Okay,
so they're appealing to a younger block, a more diverse block,
a block that's spending a lot of time in digital spaces,
not listening to radio shows like yours, but are perhaps
you know, spending a lot of time on TikTok and

(01:15:57):
on platforms like rumble x, and the incentives are just
different than what they are for electoral politics. We actually
pulled voters, and when you talk to voters, it's a
lot more traditional and coherent ideologically, at least the vast
majority of the GOP looks that way. So it's important
to keep in mind that your favorite voices in sort

(01:16:19):
of new media have incentives that are different than your
favorite politicians and Republicans or any political party.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
Yeah, I mean you had this confluence event that the
long distrust of legacy media, and then along came the
Internet and different influencers are online and there's no filter
for them, and the more extreme the better, and that
that makes sense as to why so many people majority
would lean towards political violence because that's being preached on
those platforms.

Speaker 7 (01:16:44):
Absolutely. Yeah, it really all comes down to that there
is a core group and a fringe group, and it's
up to whoever is going to be the next standard
bearer for the party to come to a determination about
who will make up their blows and can they create
a book wide enough to secure a victory at the

(01:17:05):
national stage, because I have no easy cap. President Trump
even struggled to do it three times. He you know,
depending on who you are married at least.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
So, yeah, Jesse Armin Manhattan Institute a new poll that
they did. They are very exhaustive one that reveals divides
inside the GOP coalition. So you've got the core, You've
got the less stable outer ring. One is hearing this
and going so it's just what the older people are,
the neocons, and that's the cohesive core traditional conservatives of
maybe ten years ago. And now you've got a less
stable outer ring who are the younger entrance into the

(01:17:38):
GOP is. But but even that is probably a misleading summary,
right Executive Summer.

Speaker 7 (01:17:45):
Yeah, no, I mean we're not seeing a natural fault
line along what you might call neocons or and then
their their adversaries being I don't know, paleocon guys who
like pack you canon or something like that. Maga, Yeah,
isn't this isn't falling along. It's not that tidy split. Okay,

(01:18:06):
We've found two much messier blocks, which I've described for
you now earlier. But again it does bear repeating that
just under thirty percent of today's GOP is what we
call these new entrance Republican voters who join the coalition
in the Trump era. They are younger, more racially diverse,
and much more likely to have voted for Barack Obama,

(01:18:27):
Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, or Kamala Harrince at least one time.
So they are the ostensible base for much of the
eccentricity that now preoccupies conservative politics. Because those voters are
also so much more liberal on issues that we tested,
from taxes and spending to foreign policies, immigrations to DEI
to transgender issues. This is a consistent through line. And

(01:18:52):
beyond all that, like I said, there is a flirtation
with the kind of odd here. They're much more likely
to believe a number of conspiracy theories. They're much more
likely to work with political violence in some ways. And
that is, you know, breaking our politics up along very
funny line.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
Yeah, yess you mentioned the minority faction of the GOP
was over sampled deliberately. But I'm looking at the numbers
of d and then maybe that factors into the reason why,
even more so than white Republicans, Hispanics and blacks say
DEI should be made illegal.

Speaker 4 (01:19:29):
What do you make of that?

Speaker 7 (01:19:31):
I think that DEI has got to be a winning
issue for conservatives moving forward, no matter who the policy
standard bearers for the Republican Party. One thing that was
a parent from our data is that a really useful
way to think about our politics and what it is
that Republicans stand for is.

Speaker 3 (01:19:51):
Merit, meaning we believe in.

Speaker 7 (01:19:55):
A true meritocracy that anybody can work their way up
equality of opportunities, not equality of outcome. And I'll say
that actually a politician in your state is perhaps one
of the best articulators of what it means to organize
the Republican Party along the through line of merit. What

(01:20:17):
is fair? What is just that the best people rise
to the top and that we're not giving out handouts
and living in a sort of DEI racially discriminatory identity
politics of set America. And that politician is the zach Ramaswami,
who's I think stands a very good shot of being

(01:20:37):
your next governor.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that too. Similarly, because
we're a limited time here, Jesse. Almost parallel to that
is the masculinity question. Seven out of ten current GOP
supporters believe that America is too feminine, and it's almost
sixty percent of Republican women. What's driving that settlement and
how does that going to shape the cultural position when

(01:21:00):
it comes to the gender wars.

Speaker 7 (01:21:02):
Well, keep in mind that our polling was of most
heavily what we call the current GOP, and we defined
that as you had to be either part of the
whole group that voted for Trump in twenty twenty four,
regardless of your policy party registration, or you are a
registered Republican even those who did not vote for President

(01:21:24):
Trump to be considered in that current GOP block. And
that group that President Trump has brought together and reshaped
the Republican Party in that image is very male, and
beyond being very male. Even the women who are part
of that block believe that America has become too a feminine,
feminized as a country. So how do you articulate and

(01:21:48):
develop a politic that is strong masculine nationalist but avoids
you know, I mean, we're both guys. We know kind
of where.

Speaker 6 (01:21:59):
Guys picked right right right to be too macho, to
be headstrong, stubborn effective, that compromise illy difficult, song and dance,
and you're gonna see I think if I had, if
I'm a betting man, the Democrats are probably going to
nominate a man in twenty twenty eight if triude nominating

(01:22:20):
women a couple of times.

Speaker 7 (01:22:21):
Now they've lost Gavin as the guy who sort of
appears to be the front runner right now. So we're
gonna be in dangerous territory as Republicans if the Democrats
end up nominating a man who can speak the language
of masculinity effectively while articulating a progressive policy program.

Speaker 2 (01:22:37):
Yeah, is that I mean it could be a Gavin Newsom.
Is that an Andy Basher from Kentucky?

Speaker 7 (01:22:42):
It should be a lot of people, but Andy Basheer
is another one who definitely gets kicked around a lot
Joshupiro in Pennsylvania, another popular Democratic governor who is not
you know, he doesn't talk in the sort of ultra progressive,
woke ways that so many Democrats did just a couple
of years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:23:02):
We're losing a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
Yeah, and obviously the big glooming problem here is Trump
two point zero. The next candidate is at paradox because
based on what you just said, Jesse, the most Trump
like rhetoric will appeal to the new entrance, as you
call them. But core Republicans that tend to dominate the
primaries want steady or more traditional leadership. So that's that's
gonna be a tough one to play out. We'll see
how it goes.

Speaker 3 (01:23:22):
Again.

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
He is at Jesse arm he's at Manhattan Institute helping
with this new study to kind of diagram what's happening
with the GOP. We may have to do one of
the Democrats too, because that's also equally confusing. We're just
at one of those political crossroads that happens every generation,
for sure. All the best, Thanks again for jumping.

Speaker 3 (01:23:39):
On, Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
Take care, take care, all the best. Scott Sloan Show
with News in just minutes. Here traffic weather, all the
good stuff on the way down. We'll check it with
my wife. Next real estate stuff, just to head Sloney
seven hundred w O.

Speaker 4 (01:23:52):
Jeez, the Princess of property, the Queen of closings. But
touch us out deals.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
It's a realistic time. What's Michelle Sloan? All hell?

Speaker 7 (01:24:04):
The bestest remax time agent I've ever met on seven
hundred W l W.

Speaker 4 (01:24:10):
Good morning, How are you?

Speaker 9 (01:24:12):
I'm doing great? How are you?

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
He fine?

Speaker 7 (01:24:16):
Yeah, you are.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
It's been a roast here because you know you your
knee has been hurting for a while and you're like, well,
you know, you just had your ankle done and we're
it hit our kope. So I would say that's far
a smart financial management.

Speaker 7 (01:24:29):
That's right.

Speaker 9 (01:24:29):
Care full knee replacement the day before Thanksgiving. And so
it's been exactly a week in a day and actually
I'm getting along pretty well.

Speaker 4 (01:24:42):
Yeah, you're doing all right?

Speaker 9 (01:24:44):
Yahretty good?

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
Yeah. I was.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
I talk about, you know, over extending myself. We had
seven family members over for a holidays. I did all
the cooking and taking care of you the same time, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
What the hell?

Speaker 9 (01:24:56):
Yeah, on Thursday, there wasn't much taking care of me,
feeding me, pills, and you know.

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
I was in I will say the anything you're you're
up and around. Although the best thing happened when you
were kind of in that fog of what do you
want to call it? Pharmaceuticals some degree after surgery. This
is awesome, she blurts out, because you always wonder what
somebody's gonna sayhen they're under the influence of well, no,

(01:25:24):
you were talking about how you came up with an
idea that you should have scented oxygen like what they
got the nasal candyle idea, And You're like, well, why
don't they have to say you know, it'd be good.
They could do like eggnog flavored, and and I'm like,
uh huh. I was like, you just kept going about
the different flavors it should be. There should be a

(01:25:44):
peppermint wine and a gingerbread one. And wouldn't it be
good if they have like, yeah, what about I don't know,
ham soup. Yeah, well okay, I'm like, holy crap, she's
high af right now.

Speaker 9 (01:25:55):
I know, you know, I totally remember that they set
that thing in my nose terrible and it was a
little bit uncomfortable, and it's now funny it's not funny
to me. And I just thought, well, I need flavor.

Speaker 4 (01:26:08):
You're just getting I can't. Everything with you has to
be flavored.

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
It's the water.

Speaker 4 (01:26:12):
I got flavored oxygen.

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
I think back in the.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
Day when the oxygen bars were a thing, and they
might still be, but I think they had the scented oxygen.
But you're going alike, and you just kept talking and
talking and talking about the different sense that we're coming
to mind like, Okay, I get it, Yes, send it oxygen,
run into the whole playlist.

Speaker 9 (01:26:29):
I must have been doing that when I when they
wield me in, I don't know. So they wheeled me
into the operating room, and I remember I was just
superjabber and I just I have no idea what I
was talking about. But all I saw were the bright
lights above me. You know, I felt like I was
in a medical drama or something, and I was on
the table and I'm just going, oh, the lights, the

(01:26:51):
blah blah blah, and all of.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
A sudden, I'm like, you're a nervous going yeah, I'm
kind of like a veteran with these things, like yeah,
you'll you know, you're alert, wake oriented, and all of
a sudden. I said, you know you're gonna You're gonna
blink and you'll be in recovery going what the hell
just happened?

Speaker 9 (01:27:05):
So exactly all I remember is looking up at the
lights going, oh, I'm like in a TV.

Speaker 4 (01:27:10):
Show, doctor Murphy Beacon awesome did a great job.

Speaker 9 (01:27:17):
So yeah we did.

Speaker 7 (01:27:18):
He did.

Speaker 9 (01:27:19):
Actually, And again I've been up walking around. I had
a you know, and they tell me, they tell you
when you have me replaced in surgery, and I've heard
a lot of people had it, and over the years,
I think it's changed quite a bit. But just walking
around day one day too, you know, that first day
of p T was on Friday, just two days after surgery,

(01:27:42):
and the boy the next day, I.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
Felt that I was feeling right right, But a lot
of people with there it's like it's it's it's pretty
easy comparatively speaking to what it was just a few
years ago.

Speaker 9 (01:27:53):
So well, I thought I was going to be like Superwoman.

Speaker 4 (01:27:55):
And I was, you know, I was too old for that. Wow,
way too old for that.

Speaker 9 (01:28:00):
Oh thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
To that point, my final point on this one, it
was hysterical. The other night, I'm She's like, well, I'm
kind of cold, she's on the gosh, you got her
leg up, she's got her ice on. Uh. And I
walk in the living room. She's watching TV. She's stopped
for some reason, like at the Hallmark channel or something
like that. She's got her blanket on, she's got a
cup of tea, and her cane is next to her.
I'm like, oh, you're just one cat away from being

(01:28:24):
that lady, that old lady. And I went, oh my god,
and you started laughing. I was like, it was so
funny because.

Speaker 9 (01:28:32):
It's like, yeah, you know, if I wanted a cup
of tea, if I had a.

Speaker 2 (01:28:37):
Nice you want a nice cup of tea? How about
a nice cup of tea would go great with your cat?
You're asking your cane in the Hallmark Channel's perfect. All right,
let's talk real estate stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:28:47):
What do we got?

Speaker 9 (01:28:49):
Oh my gosh. Okay. So, actually, this is a topic
that has come up a couple of times in the
last month, so I thought it would be a good conversation.
There's a lot of people who are getting to that
age where they want to downsize or right size their home,
and they want to decide do I want to find
a ranch, do I want to live in a condo

(01:29:10):
and so the it's sort of an interesting idea of Okay,
am I ready for a condo because you have to
kind of be ready to go into a condo because
you're going to have neighbors, they're going to be nosy,
You're going to have an h o A a condo,
A condo is. There's a lot of great factors when

(01:29:34):
it comes to condo. So let's just look at the
comparison between if you want to buy a home or
do you want to buy a condo. The condo the
pros are pretty easy to lift. The low maintenance living
you don't have to well, you have maintenance inside your.

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
Home maybe, but you know the thes are cutting the grass,
of moving the snow, the roof, the siding, anything big
like you don't have to worry about it.

Speaker 9 (01:29:59):
No, you still have to worry about, you know, making
sure you're changing your filters on your age back. You
know there's there's interior or stuff that's not forget about it.
It's nothing for you, but there's something for people. Yeah,
something you know people regularly you have to do change.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
A filter something you know, call a plumber, electrician if
something else goes wrong. But that's largely.

Speaker 9 (01:30:20):
It's fairly low maintenance living. For sure, it can be
more affordable, but once you factor in the monthly HOA fees,
it could be very similar price point wise to a
single family home because just imagine you're paying two hundred,
three hundred, four hundred. I've seen as high as five
hundred dollars a month for a homeowner's association, plus if

(01:30:45):
you have a mortgage. Now, if you don't have a mortgage,
you're just paying that monthly fee along with your utility. Okay,
that may be doable, but that could add up to
like a thousand dollars a month. So again it's something
that you have to think about. The amenities and a
con could be very nice and attractive. A pool, fitness center, clubhouse,
walking trails, things like that.

Speaker 7 (01:31:06):
You don't really have to worry about it.

Speaker 9 (01:31:08):
You know, you can kind of close the door and
go on vacation. But again, the cons then are those hoavs,
your rules and restrictions. If you have a pet, you
usually can't just let it out the back door and
let us go do it business and come back in.

Speaker 3 (01:31:24):
You're going to have to walk your pets.

Speaker 9 (01:31:26):
You may or may not be able to use that
property as a rental at any point. A lot of
homeowners associations and condos are doing away with allowing rentals
in most communities, so you have to check on that.
It's also a little bit of a slower appreciation as
far as that investment goes with a condo that has

(01:31:49):
a homeowner's association. The older the condo is, the higher
the HOA fee is on a monthly basis. So plus,
you want to make sure that the condo is doing
the best they can with your money. They're investing it.
You make sure there's a good reserve. Those kinds of

(01:32:10):
things are important to look at before you buy, because otherwise,
if a big if they're you know, if they don't,
if the HA doesn't have their stuff together and you
need a new roof, and so does ten other condos,
you know, that's not a cheap thing that comes out
of the condo budget, the HOA budget. So you want

(01:32:31):
to make sure that there's a reserve in there to
take care of that and there's a plan. So condos
can be extremely great, but I've had two clients of
mine who moved into condos in the last year and
they hated it. Absolutely hated it. If they felt restricted,
they felt like it wasn't their own home, they felt
like they were renting even though they owned it. So

(01:32:54):
they moved from get me out of this condo and
find me a single family home. And so I think
that's a really interesting I just find it fascinating because
you're all in on the condo thing until you're in
there and you're like, oh, this is way too restrictive.
So obviously the pros of buying a single family home.

(01:33:17):
You know, you have the space, you have the control
for the most part, there's usually fewer rules, but you
do have to handle all of your maintenance. But guess what,
if you're to the point in your life where this
is this is your life, you can always hire somebody
to do it. And sometimes you can hire someone to

(01:33:37):
do your lawn maintenance for cheaper than an hoa wall.

Speaker 2 (01:33:41):
Yeah, I mean you can hire it out right. You
look at it, going okay, pepepe, and and probably that's
the case too. I'm wonder some of these hoas you
look at the fees and you know, I know you've
had clients, Michelle where they have balked and said, man,
the hoa is killing me right now, and you add
it up to go, well, I could firm this out
that you know, the snowshoveling, which is maybe not even
a hand full of time of year, or you could
do it yourself maybe, but okay, I don't want to

(01:34:03):
cut the lawn anymore right now. But they also pay
if you know, then when the roof needs replay, well,
the roof roofleling needs are replaced every well roughly twenty years.
They're not going to do an air conditioning unit or
anything like that. Maybe you know, they'll paint it every
few years if it's older. Okay, but I think I
I'll have to do the math and go. You know,
if I just did this myself, it's I'm a head

(01:34:23):
of Again.

Speaker 9 (01:34:24):
In the long run, it could save money. And again,
when you're buying a home, there's higher appreciation as long
as you are continuing the maintenance. You can't just you know,
buy it and forget it. A lot of people do that,
and then you know, we know that that can result
in some disastrous maintenance bills as things move forward. But

(01:34:45):
you know, it's a great question you have to understand
before you get into it, because the other thing is
if you're planning on selling, condos do turnover a little
bit more than a single family home. So if you're
planning to be in that home for at least five
to seven years, consider the single family home first, and

(01:35:07):
then you know, maybe an option would be a condo.
There's a lot of new condos being built currently. Again,
if depending on your lifestyle, do you want to have
someone like directly next to you, do you want to
be able to hear them? Would you like to have
someone above you or below you? In a lot of condos,

(01:35:29):
it's either an apartment style or it's a townhouse style.
So there's a lot of different options when it comes
to condos. You know, we find that younger people who
are just starting out, the condo's a great option. Right
If you are a young first time home buyer and
you can find a condo that helps you build equity,
helps you build your credit, a condo's a great option

(01:35:53):
because you may not have a single clue unless you
have a handy dad. Yes, you may not have a
clue as to how to do the maintenance and stuff
like that. So buying a condo when you're young and
you don't know might be a good it's a good
option for you and then graduate to a single family home.
But if you're on the other end of the spectrum,

(01:36:14):
you really have to consider what's important. Is the condo
better for your lifestyle, your financing and all of that,
or is a single family home better?

Speaker 4 (01:36:24):
What about an RV Clark.

Speaker 9 (01:36:26):
An RV Clark, I don't know much about that, and
it's not something that I would ever consider, because we
are not going to be an tenement on wheels.

Speaker 4 (01:36:36):
We're going to afford a tenement on wheels exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:36:39):
Although I know those people who have done that and said,
you know what, I'm just getting an RV and driver
on the country. They're quite happy about it. And you
could think about it. You sold your house, you could
buy you could buy a boss. Most people could for
the cost of a house.

Speaker 7 (01:36:50):
Right.

Speaker 9 (01:36:50):
Yeah, But here's the thing. Okay, let's talk about that
for a second. And we've known people who've done it,
but they've done it for like a year or so.
It's fun for a minute, But are you really going
to live in an r.

Speaker 7 (01:37:03):
V for the rest of your life?

Speaker 4 (01:37:04):
I don't off.

Speaker 2 (01:37:06):
Maybe you know, for the short maybe I don't know.
Maybe you want to do it for five years.

Speaker 9 (01:37:09):
I mean it's fine, it's fine for I think short
term personally, I could never do it.

Speaker 7 (01:37:15):
Just no, No, that's a that's a that's a.

Speaker 2 (01:37:18):
Hard mat because no matter how big it is, it's
still not far and off away from me, right.

Speaker 9 (01:37:24):
That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying, sir.

Speaker 2 (01:37:28):
Yeah, we fight, We fight enough now we actually driving
is the largest houses on wheels right now?

Speaker 4 (01:37:34):
What could possibly go row out?

Speaker 9 (01:37:35):
And if I'm in a way you.

Speaker 4 (01:37:38):
Leave doors open, somebody's bound to fall out.

Speaker 9 (01:37:48):
That's kind of funny. It's like, so if you would
live on an airplane, so that would mean I'd have
to close all the cabinet doors and do the little
locky thing like they do an airplane. You gotta lock
it so there's any trigger, right.

Speaker 4 (01:37:58):
Yeah, it's going to look like the tight Gus, what's
gonna happen? It's gonna be crap all over.

Speaker 7 (01:38:02):
You left?

Speaker 4 (01:38:02):
Did you like those doors?

Speaker 2 (01:38:03):
I thought I shut?

Speaker 9 (01:38:04):
Shot, I shut that I did, I closed, and I swear.

Speaker 4 (01:38:08):
My innditions for the fifth time this month. Awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
My wife, Michelle Sloan, We'll just we're just happy having
a home.

Speaker 4 (01:38:14):
How about that? Our home is nice.

Speaker 3 (01:38:16):
We love our home.

Speaker 2 (01:38:17):
We're the house that's all good. Well S, your knees
getting better, so it's all good during these holiday seas.
All right, thanks again, appreciate it. My wife over at
Sloan sells homes dot com and every next time in Mainville, love.

Speaker 4 (01:38:28):
You, see you light. I gotta go. I gotta go
because I gotta get the news.

Speaker 2 (01:38:31):
We've got Willie on the way next. We got lots
going on on this Thursday morning, and he made it
to Friday, at least I did. Anyway, a few more
hours for you and you're there as well. Right weekend,
just ahead all of the best Bengals coverage seven hundred
WWT Cincinnati