The Big Outdoors -- 12/13/25

Chip Hart has all your tips and tricks on the water and in the woods. Tune in!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, Welcome to the Big Outdoors News Radio seven
hundred WLW Cincinnati, the home of the best Bengals coverage
and of course the Cincinnati Reds and basketball basketball basketball.
I'm not even a basketball fan. I don't even understand
the game, but there are a lot of people to do,
and we have a lot of it around this town,
which is great to carry people through.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
At least the first quarter of the year.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
So recently in the news in this neck of the
woods down here in Cincinnati, we had a die off
of the black vultures and Amelia at I forget the
name of the Catholic school, but nonetheless, it's just coincidentally.
It already scheduled this gentleman to be with me to
talk about the black vulture, which I guess it has

(00:47):
now an very expanded range. But nonetheless, it was just
something I wanted to get to because it's been affecting
There's a lot of issues with the livestock industry and
various other sundry other I guess groups are out there
that are out there and they're much more noticeable of
course on our roadways, cleaning up the deer we hit

(01:09):
and the possum we hit the raccoons, we hit the rabbits,
we hit and everything else. And you got to have
a breakfast club out there, quite frankly, to you know, clean.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Up the mass. So but I bring in Tommy Butler.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
He is an assistant direct to a District Supervisor with
the USDA Wildlife Services here in the Southern District, Ohio. Tommy,
Welcome to the big outdoors. And how are you.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
Well? How are you?

Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'm doing fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
So we met at the Farm Science Review, which is
big agricultural events sponsored by OSU up.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
In the London, Ohio.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
And and you were there with the USDA, and you
had a couple of brochures out on the table. One
that caught my eye was on the black vulture damage.
So if you could, and I think I had some
me on from University of Kentucky a couple of years
ago we talked about the black vulture. But they certainly
have become more apparent, or maybe it's because I've gotten

(02:11):
a different appreciation for our breakfast club out there. But nonetheless,
they were they were never I guess native to this area.
They they I guess had their range has expanded from
South America, and I guess the southern States into into
this part of Ohio.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
Yes, sir, So you know, black vultures weren't necessarily super
concentrate here in state of.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Ohio for a long time.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
They're there's been sightings of black vultures in Ohio for
one hundred years or so. Okay, in the last in
the last twenty years or so is when we started to,
you know, see that population really expand. And now here
in the state of Ohio you can find black vultures
basically in any county in the state. I'll say, you know,
Southwest Ohio certainly had probably has the most, but nobody's

(03:02):
out there, you know, counting them. We don't have an
exact number or anything like that. That's just kind of
observation on my part. But yeah, right, there's a ton
of black vultures in Ohio. Now.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
So the turkey vulture, which was our prevalent vulture since
I mean since I can remember, and they apparently do
migrate south and when does that kind of start. But
you know, even this past summer or in the last
fifteen years, I've not seen the numbers of turkey vultures

(03:35):
that we used to. And it's like they were overtaken
by the by the black vulture.

Speaker 4 (03:42):
Yeah, I don't. So he reports that, you know, theory
that maybe black vultures are displacing turkey vultures, and I
don't see a whole lot of evidence of it. I
think what really happens is is black vultures are.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
Here in Ohio year round.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
So it seems like there's more of them because we
see them year round, where the turkey vulture in Ohio
is pretty pretty like clockwork with with their migration here.
So they usually migrate out of the state right around Halloween,
first week in November, depending on where you're at, and
they usually come back in you know, late February, early March,

(04:21):
so they're gone for several months and then we were
left with black vultures.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
And so a pair.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
But is was climate change the reason for their range
expansion or is there really no reason that anybody could
put a finger on.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
There's there's a few theories, and there's kind of a
several theories on why they've expanded. Warmer winners could certainly,
you know, you could point that direction. They're a southern bird,
it's a little bit warmer, you know. You one would
think that would be helpful for them, but I think
more importantly would be habitat So they are a woodland

(05:01):
edge species. They do like the forest. They roost in trees,
so over time, you know, Ohio has become more forested
after you know, initial European settlement and then the fanning
of DDT. Yeah, the infect side was bad for birds,
and so you know, they can play on eggs now
and have successful nests. And of course they are protected

(05:24):
by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, so they are afforded
some protection by the US Fish.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
And Wildlife, but not in all instances. And we'll get
to that after the break. But I also want to
just bring in a little discussion about the die off
of Amelia, and we'll do that at the end, but
I want to want to talk about, actually, you know
what what kind of damage the black vultures do and
you know, I guess what communities it really affects. Chip

(05:49):
Hard The Big Outdoors News Radio seven hundred WLW Cincinnati
back in a moment.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Hey, we're back the.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Big Outdoors News Radio seven hundred l W Cincinnati, home
and the best Bengals coverage in the Cincinnati Reds And
with me this morning is Tommy Butler, Assistant District super
for the us DA under Wildlife Services. And so Tommy,
for those out there, we'll get to the Amelia die
off in a bit, but for those out there, what

(06:19):
kinds of problems uh that you know, do does the
black vulture create? Which I guess the turkey vulture was
never much of a problem in that in that same respect,
So and then that involves you guys with the USDA
under Wildlife Services. So so what what issues are they

(06:39):
you know, do they create for the various communities out there?

Speaker 4 (06:44):
Yeah, here in Ohio we kind of split it into
two categories of black vulture damage. The first being property damage.
So black vultures when they congregate in these large roofs
and stuff, they can they can cause damage to things
like rubber roofs, vehicles, whether they're stripping on windows, whether

(07:04):
it be cars or houses.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Things like that.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
Soft things they like picking it rubber and plastic and
that can cause roof damage and people can get you know,
pretty big damage bills for for black vulture damage.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
So that's one.

Speaker 4 (07:19):
Category and which I help people with often.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
The other category is livestock.

Speaker 4 (07:24):
So black vultures will kill young livestock basically while they're
being born or shortly thereafter. So it's a it's a
it can be a big hit to you know, local
farmers livestock industry when we're you know, while livestock's prices
are high right now, so it's a big loss to
lose like a calf for example.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (07:47):
That's how we split it up in the in the
livestock and property. And we do have a unique situation
with the livestock program and that we can help people
give them you know what we call technical assistance, give
them advice on what they can do.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
On the farm to help prevent the black.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
Vultures, but also that can get elevated at the point
where we can help them get permits to lethally remove
some vultures.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Are you getting more call? Are the calls coming?

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Say, the number of calls vary depending on where what
part of the state you might be in, or I guess,
in that case of livestock, depending on you know, what
counties are heavily born into livestock than crops.

Speaker 4 (08:30):
In twenty twenty five, I think we've done you know,
livestock permits for people in over.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
Half of ohioest counties real heavy.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
I think the most permits we've had are not too
far from Cincinnati there in Highland County is kind of
ground zero for a lot of permits, and it's kind
of due to there's a lot of vultures in Highland
County and there's a lot of livestock in Highland County,
so when you put those two things together, it leads
to conflict. Adams County is another one, kind of down
the area that the kind of same boat as Highland

(09:02):
County move over to the eastern part of the state.
Jackson is another one, and then I think Guernsey County
would kind of be that top four, top five counties
here in the state.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
But anywhere from the Ohio River clear up to.

Speaker 4 (09:15):
Lake Erie, we've helped people get permits.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
I guess.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
I guess being more living, I live more rurally these
days than anything else, and I'm seeing more and more
And maybe that's because of obviously I'm out with the
lot where the livestock are contrary when I grew up
or even up to fifteen years ago, so maybe that's
why I'm noticing more. But nonetheless, the flock seemed to
be fairly large size in comparison to what the turkey

(09:43):
vultures used to be. I mean, these things flock in
huge numbers.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
They do flock in larger numbers than turkey vultures do
a lot of times when people see turkey vultures, they
do flock, but you know, you might see something like
six or ten turkey ballltures where black vultures will congregate
up into the hundreds. And in fact, this time of
year is when we do see those big, you know,
congregations and flocks here in the wintertime. Often they're in

(10:12):
municipalities around the state, so kind of the county seat
that the town county seat tends to have a big
flock of them, And those are those when they get
together like that, and those big flocks, damage can happen.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Well, I would imagine the heat from a particular town,
like take Batavia for instance, or or hillsbro does the
does the heat off of town attract them? I just
kind of just looks like because they're on the buildings
and you know in cold weather, is that I'm just.

Speaker 4 (10:42):
Nuts now, I don't know if that's a I don't know.
I think the things that I see of that are
roost attributes for for black vultures are kind of high points.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
They like being on cell.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
Phone towers, water towers, large buildings. Often we'll see them
in reachedon pine trees, like on top of the hill
for example. So you know there's a there's a patch
of pine trees in a town that's on you know,
on a high point. Often that's a good area to
find them. God.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well, you know here I thought they were keeping an
eye on all the politicians in the communities. You know,
just just the thought. That's my thought, Tommy, not yours,
I know. Anyway, Sit tight, We got more to come.
The Big Outdoors News Radio seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati back
in the Mommy.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
The iHeartRadio app seven hundred WLW.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Hey, we're back the Big Outdoors News Radio, seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati, Chippark.
My guest is Tommy Butler, and he is with the
us DA under their Wildlife Services Division here in southwest Ohio.
Been talking to black vulture and so Tommy, uh, just
to recap your responsibility is is what as far as

(12:01):
you're out there, you're working with the people that have
issues with this particular bird.

Speaker 4 (12:10):
Yeah, well, big picture with USDA Wildlife Services here in
Ohio is our our you know, mission or goal is
is to help you know, we provide federal leadership in
human wildlife conflict resolution. So we're out there just trying
to help people are having conflict with wildlife. As far
as black vultures go. You know, we're doing just that

(12:33):
in southern Ohio and the rest of the state. You know,
when conflict arises, one of the things we do is
is we provide advice on you know, how to how
to help resolve these problems, how to lessen damage is
kind of.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
How we're driven.

Speaker 4 (12:45):
So that goes you know to like I said with
the livestock stuff, is helping farmers you know, make decisions
on farming practices that can help produce that. For example,
parcass management's very important with with black vultures. You know,
on the farm, things die and what they do, they
need to be disposed up properly so we don't make

(13:05):
the farm attractive to our scavenger black vultures.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Husbandry issues too.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, I'm just gonna say that that could be. That
could be tough.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
Yeah, it can be tough. It's it's it can be
difficult to man. It's but it's important. You know, you
kind of you can branch that out to you know,
having carcasses on the farm there can be attractive to
other predators like coyotes things like that. So it's an
important aspect of of of of what they do on
the farm. The other thing is husbandry stuff with you know,

(13:39):
the way they cave so a lot and I'm kind
of you know, heavy on the cattle here because a
lot of.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
This stuff there is cattle driven.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
But uh, you know, heifer cabin for the first time
that you know, they don't know what they're doing. It's
their first time doing it.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
It can take a long time.

Speaker 4 (13:55):
They can have a calf and kind of walk away
and when that happens, predators key in on that and
black valters do as well. So you know, keeping those
those first time you know us or or heifer's that
are you know, layman or cabin the first time. Putting
those things in the barn is a really good way
to kind of head off your vaulture damage.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, Well, and so people can just go to you
uh just just uh, I guess doing uh internet search
for us d A Wildlife Services for a particular area
and up you guys will come right, Yeah, you can.

Speaker 4 (14:32):
You can do Google search US. If you call one
eight six six for U. S. D A W S.
That phone number will route you to to our state
office and then we can get you get you in
touch with the right person depending on the subject matter
you're dealing with. All Right, that number work, go ahead,
that number of work throughout the country, the whole country.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
That number will get you where you need to go
for the state you're in.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Fantastic, Okay, now we gotta we'll switch gears a little bit.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Talk about Amelia and the die off at uh.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
It was a Catholic school I think a week ago
thereabouts of what like seventy black vultures, which being a
flock bird. Where what is the current status on that
as as you know it to be.

Speaker 4 (15:18):
Yeah, as far as I know, I think the Division
of Wildlife kind of took the lead on sampling those.
I think the samples were taken and I think they're
sent up to the Higher Department of Agriculture up in
Reynoldsburg and they were tested for hypatha Avian influenza. Uh.
It turned out to be a non negative is what

(15:39):
they call it. So then that that then those samples
then get forwarded to uh NVSL, which is kind of
a feed USDA apist our our lab that just tests
samples like this. So I think we haven't heard back
if it's been confirmed by NVSL, but it.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Presumed it was high path avian influenza.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
We had a die off in a couple of lakes
that like East Fork Lake and Caesar's Creek earlier. I
guess reports from fishermen and so forth to I guess it.
Apparently something went through the population.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
Yeah, Avian influenza is out in the environment.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Wild birds carry it.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
Yeah, and then of course sometimes it turns high path
and people are not people, but it spreads through wild
population affects them and there can be die offs.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
We see it.

Speaker 4 (16:36):
We see it when this high path a eye flares up,
kind of this time of year.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Well, Tommy Butler, reappreciate your time this morning, and we'll
hopefully get a follow up and not too distant future
on everything.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Vulture appreciate it. Good talking to you, all right, thanks
for that.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
We got to hit a break the Big Outdoors News
Radio seven hundred WLW Cincinnati back in the morning and
Gary Jeff of course we'll be up at the bottom
of the hour and him and the cast of characters
and every other Nitwick we can take care of everything

(17:15):
throughout the day along with all the sports. Gerbils just
going crazy around here, and it's it's kind of fun
to watch. It is their time of year, you know,
and their kind of sour pusses, you know. But then
there's good reason. Okay, I'll leave it at that. Here
we are with the numbers for everybody that's got to

(17:36):
know how much how many week killed? So Ohio hunters
took twenty three and forty nine an opening day. The
season total for the week of gunn was at eighty
seven thousand, one hundred and ninety one total. Harveston, Ohio
is currently as of earlier in the week, one hundred

(17:58):
and eighty eight thousand, two hundred and ninety one.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
White Tails.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Kentucky, you guys did pretty good one hundred and thirty
thousand and nine hundred as of earlier this week.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
And in Indiana, you.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Guys over here, you Hoosiers, are at one hundred and
nineteen thousand, nine hundred and twenty two.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
So in some total we're almost.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Nearer a half million deer taken, and that's a lot
of innocent, gonna be a lot of sausage, a lot
of jerky, and maybe some good old Pennsylvania bologney. So
with that, everybody be safe out there, and uh, you know,
fill that freezer with whatever it is. Duck rabbit, I
don't care, Chip Hart, the Big Outdoors News Radio, seven

(18:44):
hundred WLW, Cincinnati.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Be safe in the woods, safe on the water, and
safe in that trees.