"The Greatest Test Series Win Ever! Featuring Neil Wagner"

Paul Ford & Dylan Cleaver join Jason Hoyte for another episode of NZ's #1 cricket pod the BYC!

In the latest episode, the fellas go deep into the greatest Test Series win in NZ cricket history. Then Black Caps legend Neil Wagner joins the show to discuss the team's success in India and chat about his new book 'All Out'. 

Finally, they look ahead to the Sri Lanka T20 Series and the squad in Dambulla.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Live from the Export Beer Garden Studios. You're listening to
the b YC. And the unthinkable has happened, a three
new whitewash of India.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
In India, it is an.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Unfathomable result, particularly given the black Caps form going into
the series. In our wildest dreams, we may have thought
that perhaps the black Caps could steal a Test match
when a favorable toss, have what go our way and
catch the Indians on the hop. But to win all
three tests, and more importantly, to dominate all three tests,

(00:37):
seemed well outside the realms of possibility. But here we
are reveling in the glow of New Zealand's greatest ever
Test series victory. So let's discuss And Dylan, you said
at the end of the last podcast, now I want
three zapp and I was like, oh, I just had
a feeling, fellas that all the rage of India would

(00:58):
be unleashed on and that third Test. But for me,
it just proves that we got under their skin and
we had their measure.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
I felt it proved that we had exquisitely formulated plans
that we executed really efficiently. Yes, I think you nailed
it in that intro New Zealand outplayed India, but there
was there might have been a random element to that
first Test, sure, but still India won the toss. Was
like New Zealand won the toss and decided to take

(01:29):
first use of those conditions. But in Pune and Mumbai
with tracks specifically catering to Ashwin and Jadasia, New Zealand
had better plans and played them better. It was immense.
I cannot give steared Latham. I presume Southeast still part
of that leadership firm, probably even came Williamson from home

(01:52):
knowing him. Cannot give them enough credit for what they
came up with.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Well, you know, when we were considering their form Paul forward,
it's just such an extraordinary turn a turnaround from what
they came from. And I, you know, I don't know
anyone out there that could ever have protected this result.
It has just blown everyone's mind and it is our

(02:18):
greatest Test Areas victory. But we did dominate them, and
even with that one forty seven guys in the final innings,
I was like, I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
We beat them every single way. You could beat them
out better than we out bowled them. We outspun them,
We outpaced them, we out caught them, and it was
just so utterly comprehensive it was. It was staggering, and
you know, yeah, I actually felt quite emotional when we
won the third one. I just couldn't believe it. It

(02:50):
was my birthday and I just wanted something good for
my birthday. The Phoenix lost, and then I went like,
the cricket has just blowing my mind. It was just
three extraordinary winds over consecutive weeks, and each one more
incredible than the one before. And I mean last week, yeah,
you know, you just referenced to there with Dylan said,
God would be good to win three nil. But I

(03:12):
just have this feeling of dread and I just don't
think that we're going to be able to do it.
But if we do, shit, it'll be amazing. And here
we are, so last week we think we're having a
discussion about whether that second Test win and the series
win was our greatest Test series win in the history
of cricket. And now this week, this series three, Niel

(03:32):
black Cat Blackwashing is being called out as the biggest
upset in Test cricket history, bar every team, bar none.
It's just it's unfavorable. It just blows my mind and
I do hope that it stops. It won't, but I
just kind of hope we can't keep saying we're punching
above our weight. Once you've beat in India three nil

(03:54):
in India, yeah you're kind of you're boxing in the
right waight division heavyweights now.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, by the way, the Phoenix got a hiding. What
struck me, Dylan was that it was a comprehensive team performance.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
And yes, you had outstanding contributions from your Sanna's the
age as et cetera, et cetera. But the Batsman, for example,
made contributions. You know, there were no hundreds, but really
significant contributions. So let's focus on the on the batting
side of things.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
First.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
We spoke to Gary Stead yesterday and I said to him, Gary,
you know who I'm most stoked for Will Young because
I've really felt for the guy and he's been an
example of perseverance in terms of hanging in there, hanging
in there, and I was so stoked for him.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
He had a great series.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
What a Gary see?

Speaker 1 (04:48):
He said, yeah, he's he agreed, and that he said
that you know, he's a good player. And he's been
given an opportunity and he's taken it, and we were
delighted for him.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
And he might be carrying the drinks in the next yest.
But exactly exactly, we'll get to that point. But the
thing about contributions is really interesting because you can get
contributions and bunches and you can win a test. But
what I thought was particularly unique to the series was
that not many Black Caps had what you'd call a
consistently great series. Like Will Young was very consistent. Sure,

(05:20):
AJS was great in one test, Sata was great one test,
Henry was great in one test. But what happened was
they were phenomenally well timed. Yes, when guys did stand up,
they really stood it. And the guy that probably had
the toughest series of all, Tom Blundell. You know that
number six spots just a dead spot for New Zealand
at the moment. He still managed out of that debris

(05:42):
to score a vital forty one in the second dig
and Pune and kept like a god on that last
day when at one Kadie, which was incredibly difficult, the
catch he took off the reverse swegk Oh that was
ridiculous Ashwood was just it was fantastic work. So yeah,
contributions were key up and down the audito. You look

(06:02):
at Mitchell struggled a bit in the series hugely vital
weighty two that partnership him and Will Young put together
on that first day at one KDE when it just
looked like oven like conditions of pressing conditions amazing. Glen
Phillips at number seven didn't have an amazing series with
the bat but scored a vital forty eight night out.

(06:23):
I think it was had a Benglaro who and then
he smote a few sixers with the tail and another
innings that kind of pushed New Zealand from a struggling
position to a good position. Sowdy gets his sixty five
yes at Bengalaru who he had row it on toast
for the first couple of innings that he bowled, but
again didn't have a great series. Yes, it was just

(06:46):
it was just, you know, these amazingly well timed interventions
from everyone in that batting order.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
And that's not forgetting Latham's eighty odd great New Zealand
innings of all time.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
Comway, a couple of chipping in a cup of time.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yes, just on that catch with was at Ashwyn, that
incredible catch by Blundele. But I don't know if you
both went, oh god, because we'd used up our what
do you call them reviews, reviews and the last one
was an absolute shocker. That was a great decision by
the humpire. That was I thank god he made that call.

(07:21):
Your thoughts on everyone contributing, Paul Forward, Yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
Mean, I guess in the aftermath of the series, it's
it's just sort of searching for answers about how it happened,
you know, it's it's almost unexplainable. And yeah, that the
multiple contributions is the first thing that comes to mind.
I think the wake up call that came in Sri Lanka,
you know, and maybe that would have come we might
have got a fright against Afghanistan, you know, the game

(07:46):
that never got played, that miserable week spent in Great Annoider,
And yeah, the Sri Lankan series maybe was the thing
that we needed to push ourselves into action. But it
did feel like India were at sea. New Zealand were
absolutely clinical, Route was adaptive, flexible. It felt like we
were like the sleeper cell that India just completely underestimated,

(08:07):
thought they were going to kick our ass, if not
in the first Test, then definitely in the second and
the third. It really shows that the team culture in
that Black Cats unit is so so strong. You know
that they should have been broken going into that series,
given the fact that you know, any number of data points,
tea twenty Cricket World Cup, shit, our wash out in Afghanistan,

(08:28):
pasted in Sri Lanka, captain's gone best, batsman's out, injuries
to Matt Henry, injuries to Santana. India is a fortress.
Players are out of form. Conservative coach and you know,
I wanted to touch on this just briefly. We've been
we've been very critical of some of the selections and
the dogma and the conservative nature of this Black Cats

(08:51):
team over recent months, recent series, prior to this one.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
Probably eight months to two years really, but.

Speaker 4 (08:59):
And you know, they they were still pretty conservative with
their selections, but shit, they were not with their tactics.
They played in a completely different way. You know, they
played with freedom, They were very deliberate about attacking the spinners,
and you know, when selections were forced to the guys
that came and performed magnificently. And I guess you know,
in that sense we've touched on that Young coming in
for Williamson. I mean, Santana coming in basically because Bracewel

(09:23):
went home, you know, and then you know Ajs stepping
up when Santon was out the following week. Just just
a bunch of extraordinary circumstances. Really.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, speaking of Ages, he likes Mumbai, doesn't he. Yeah,
what was that twenty how many wickets?

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Twenty five?

Speaker 3 (09:38):
I've read something that there's no foreign bowler has taken
as many wickets at one KDI Stadium as Ages.

Speaker 4 (09:44):
Yes, it was Ian, both of them, I think before. Yeah, yeah,
it was Ian both.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
So it's amazing. I mean, guys, when you look at
this as a whole, I know you will pull but
a favorite statistic from the series.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
I've got a kind one and and a mean one.
The kind one is in mineer obvious, ye know. The
kind one is that it's the first time we've ever
won three matches in a Test series. The mean one
is the fact that it's the first instance of India
being whitewashed at home in a three match series. So
so good. And just to balance that, out just so

(10:17):
that they don't feel too bad. We have also lost
two series three mil at home, one to England in
the sixties and one to Australia in two thousands, which
was very painful, very painful. Few weeks an you'll leave
for me.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, we've spoken about well, Young but I want to
go to some correspondence here.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Can I just give you one step?

Speaker 4 (10:37):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (10:37):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (10:37):
No?

Speaker 3 (10:38):
Do will Young faced four hundred and sixty bulls in
this series? Colie and Sharma between them face three hundred
and six.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
And average fifteen collectively fifteen.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Jeez, I tell you what bluddy India is. We will
be panicking, won't they? And mate, do you think, just
very briefly, there was an element of them looking over
to Australia and forgetting that there was they were playing
a test series here?

Speaker 3 (11:05):
Absolutely? I think also that they've been a new coach,
which dot I don't think is universally adored in that
changing room. Yes, and also maybe they are going through
some of the pains that we've been through for the
past eighteen months with a golden generation of players. And
let's basic Kohali Sharma, Jadeja at Eshwyn a Gods of

(11:26):
cricket in India. They're all getting slightly long in the
tooth now and may have taken their r off the
ball a little bit.

Speaker 5 (11:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
I think as well that if you're a team with
the batting talent of India and the spin bowling talent
of India, you bring the teams together, you bring weaker
teams on paper closer to you by putting us on
spinning tracks because you don't have to be an amazing
spinner to spin the ball on those tracks. And you know,

(11:56):
you have to show application with your batting and all
of that, all of that kind of stuff. But if
your batsmen are not up to scratch out of form,
as you say, getting a bit long in the tooth,
and then you're young players who are really really good,
but let's be honest, they're not betting like Rale Dravd,
you know Rahana. Those guys just really kind of digging
in and just settling in to bat for you know,

(12:18):
seven sessions. Yeah, that really that The way that India
attempted to screw the scrum in their favor played into
New Zealand tens magnificently in this series.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
You know, I'm loving this bit of correspondence that we
got because I was asking myself a similar question going,
you know, regarding Will Young and AGEZ and Simon of
CD rights watch well, age Azz are well and age
Azz what watch well and age as will be dropped

(12:54):
for the next test Canterbury beebs. It's good to have
something to ground yourself in these heating times. But imagine
Will betting at number five, feasting on spin and I
you know, because it was actually my wife that said
to me. She said, oh, so what happens when Williamson
comes back? And I was like, it's going to happen

(13:14):
again to Will Young, isn't it. He's going to be ditched.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
I think he will be, Yeah, because in christ Church
it's just not the New Zealand way to go on
with just three seemers, even though when it's normally green
conditions down there, you would have thought three seemers could
get the job done. Darryl Mitchell can be that kind
of surrogate for I just forget that Glenn Phillips is
you're one and only spinner, and then you could maybe

(13:37):
find a spot for Will Young. But Latham's not going anywhere.
He's Captain Conway's back and form Williamson's got number three.
You have to have a spot in the middle order
for Ratchen and Darryl Mitchell. You have to have a
worker keeper. Doesn't matter if it's Bundle or Mitchell. Hey,
but they've got to play. So unless they do something
incredibly radical and say to Tom Latham you've got the

(14:00):
gloves now, mate, it's a good place to captain aside
from as wicket keeper, and then have to look for
an opener, which would be will Young even though it's
not Averages twenty two is an opener unless they get
really funky. I think he is going to miss out
and christ Church.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
It's unbelievable when you consider that, isn't it. It's unbelievable,
and it's just it's just a reflection of his career really,
But yeah, it's very difficult, Budgie. We've also got ratching
for a bit of spin as well, of course. Yep,
and I thought he was actually he was underbold in
that series, but there you go.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, well, I've already accounted for the fact they won't
carry a Santa on AJZ in christ Hitch, and I
still can't squeeze them in elegantly.

Speaker 4 (14:39):
I can't squeez them in elegantly. But yeah, I agree
with your Latham Kamai, Williamson, Revender, Young Mitchell, but I
think I can't see them getting rid of blunder either.
And then if you're seem as a Sauthi, Henry and O'Rourke,
you've got you could do a Phillips or a Center
or a bracelet and not have that fourth cema, because
who is the fourth sema. It's not James and he's injured.
It's not sea As he's injured. You know, it's Duffy

(15:01):
another right arm, or it's Google Line, it's Techno, or
it's Nathan Smith. I don't know. I think that maybe
they'll do a Phillips or a Santna or a Bracewoll,
and they will get young in there. I can see
away it.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
It'll be Phillips, won't they. They're not going to drop
Phillips for a Bracewill or a Santner, are they?

Speaker 4 (15:16):
Surely?

Speaker 6 (15:17):
Though? So?

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Mmmm, fascinating stuff, Fellas.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
What about some other great upsets and test cricket history,
Paul Ford, this is your sort of zone. You'll be
all over this. In fact you are. You've written my
one for me, I am all over it.

Speaker 4 (15:34):
But I just want to say I have thought about
this and I don't think that my nomination beats what
New Zealand have achieved over the last few weeks. But
on paper, when New Zealand beat the West Indies in
nineteen eighty, that was an incredible, incredible victory if you
don't look too deep into the circumstances surrounding. You know,

(15:56):
and and you know. The case in point is that
Playing with Fire and Babylon, the magnificent film about the right,
the documenting the greatness of the West Indies coming together
in the nineteen seventies under Clive Lloyd and the soundtrack
of Bob Marley and all the magnificent things they did
to bring the West Indies together. The nineteen eighty series

(16:17):
Against zeal And got kind of left out of that
documentary because it very very much did not fit the narrative. A.
They lost, b they carried on like pork chops and
see some of the umpiring was probably not going to
be It was probably more fit for comedy than documentary.
But yeah, like that West Indies team that came over here,
they'd just all been rock stars in the world series.
They've beaten Australia in a series, and then yes, of

(16:39):
course they came over here and we all know what
happened with Richard Headley getting was at seven lbw's and
Fred Goodall and all the carrying on with Colin Croft
and all that kind of stuff. Western is deliberately misfielding
balls and dropping catchers and just wanting to go home.
I love the comment from Fred Goodall where he said,
I'm not sure what they got so angry about. I'd
umpired county games in England. I wasn't a professional. I

(17:01):
was a school teacher. I mean, I don't think that
made anybody feel better.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
No Iver a series that certainly can be accused of
recency bias here, but I loved that series. In twenty
twenty one when India beat Australia in Australia, oh that
was great. After Tim Payne said wait till we get
you to the gabba mate, and they got to the
Gabba and India won that test to win that. This
was the series. They were all out for thirty something

(17:26):
in Atelaide, thirty six years thirty six they won in
Melbourne and Tim Payne was giving it all this and
telling ash when none of his teammates liked him. And
it's probably true that smashed them at the Gabba and
they got up there. And it wasn't just the fact
that India beat Australia at the Gabba. They beat them
without Kohli, without Jadesia, without Ashwin, without Boomera, and without Chami.

(17:49):
Their bowling attack for that Test was Washington Sunda. Yes,
it was only on that tour as a development player
because he was seen as a sort of T twenty guy.
Only a guy called Shad Or the ker Lord, Chardle
Nev Deep Signe, Mohammad Sharaz saraj who was really only
a kind of novice back then, and some guy called

(18:11):
Finger Rahu Netarajan who I can barely remember. So that
was a magnificent day.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
I remember that Test match very well because because of
the massive injuries that the Indians had in the situation,
no one gave him a chance and hall of winning
that Test match, and neither did I quite frankly, and
I remember didn't Pant.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
Had a Pant and Gil who had both got there
were kids, yes, they kind of one pink Gil got
ninety ninety odd and I think Pink got eighty nine.
Not out about you, Jason.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
West Cindy's beat England and England in nineteen forty two.
I was just a little fella at that stage, with
the team containing a young Gary Sobers and led by
Jamaican Michael Manley.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
No I don't remember that, No, neither.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
In the middle of the war, was it.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Yeah, yeah, you son of a bitch kept them by
the Jamaican Prime Minister.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Well, at least I knew it was a setup because
you wrote it for me. So all right, let's look
at the ramifications then, because three Test wins in terms
of the World Test Championship and when we're done and dusted.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
It's brought us back into the race a little bit.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
Dylan, Yeah, look, I still think it's a bit of
a long shot. But the first thing that we can
control the controllables, as Gary Stead will be saying probably
about seventeen times in the lead up to the first
Test against England, but we can control the controllables by
beating England in the series, and that at the very
least would mean that there's five teams in Australia, India,

(19:53):
South Africa, Sri Lanka, Australia's in pole position and they've
got a home series against India and an away series
against Sri Lanka. They should couple enough points to be
one of the two teams. I think India are going
to struggle. I think they've only from memory, They've only
got the series against Australia and obviously they are not
gain feeling great about themselves. South Africa is the one though.

(20:13):
They've got two Test series against Sri Lanka and Pakistan
at home. I can see them winning all four of
them and I think that would be it. Is that right, Paul?

Speaker 4 (20:24):
Yeah, I think that's right. I mean I had a
there's so many permutations. There's some dangerously complicated maths, but
the guts of it. Some nerd did a calculation. Australia
are eighty six percent chance of making the final, So
Africa sixty four percent, New Zealand thirty three percent, Sri
Lanka nine percent. That's kind of factoring in every possible permutation.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
So sounds about right, yeap.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
What would really suck is if South Africa make that final.
And I can tell you why, after what they did
when they sent their shitty team down here and we
gave them a hiding. It would really suck if that
became an acceptable method for They still managed to qualify
for the final. So whilst it would be nice for
a team that's not one of the big three, I'll

(21:07):
still find it quite annoying if so that every can
make that final. But something cool about the World Test Championship.
We're going to be watching test matches like South Africa
versus Pakistan and Sri Lanka versus Australia and Gaul with
a huge amount of intensity, much more than usual, just
to see what the ramifications are for New Zealand. So
and if I guess it shows test cricket with context

(21:28):
is a good thing.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
Yeah. And if you flip that scenario, that need of
scenario on its head, wouldn't it be so great of
South Africa just missed out by a couple of percentage points,
knowing that if they had sent their A team to
New Zealand they would have had a different story chance
of making the final.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
Absolutely, that would be delicious, fantastic.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
Well, we're going to take a quick break when we
come back, talk about the black Caps in Tri Lanka
fellas minus heyt.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Though maybe guess you've got a meeting.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
I've got a meeting and so we've got a very
special treat in this podcast, which made us run a
little bit later than normal, which the Fellers will reveal
a little bit later on in the Poddy.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
All right boys, your bals OKJS? Just checking or is
it a meeting?

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Is it?

Speaker 6 (22:12):
Well?

Speaker 1 (22:12):
I had some cost coss last night and I'm not
sure that it was I think it had expired maybe
so no, my checking round great, did.

Speaker 4 (22:24):
Have shredded chicken and mixed in with it?

Speaker 1 (22:26):
No, it was a bit of salmon with a miso
glaze actually, and roasted vegetables.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
But there you go, good stuff. Thanks for listen. We'll
be back shortly.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
We're thrilled to have with us one of cricket's fiercest,
most relentless bowlers, Neil Wagner, join us for a chat.
Known for his aggressive onfield persona and two hundred and
sixty hard earned wickets and sixty four Tests, Neil bowled
thirteen thousand, seven hundred and twenty five balls and Test
cricket for New Zealand since his debut and Antigua in

(23:00):
twenty twelve. He's been a massive lion hearted, beautifully coy charismatic,
admirable and hugely entertaining presence on the kiwie cricket scene
since washing up on our shores from Pretoria earlier this century.
Feared by batsman worldwide for his skill and passion, he's

(23:21):
been a bloody inspiration to battler's all over this great nation.
Neil Wagner, Welcome to the byc.

Speaker 6 (23:29):
Mate, Thanks guys, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Absolute pleasure.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
And yeah, why'd you write a book?

Speaker 6 (23:36):
Good question. I was very against it.

Speaker 5 (23:38):
I didn't want to do it, to be honest, at
the start. The rider kept haunting andnouning me for quite
some time.

Speaker 6 (23:46):
I said, nah, nah, I don't want to do it
for about a year and a half.

Speaker 5 (23:49):
And then after retirement, sitting back, I guess reflecting a
bit about your career in life and a few bits
and pieces, and yeah, a couple of whiskeys deep on
the deck of my wife, she sort of inspired me
and said, hey, I think you should do it. I
wrung the writer up and said, hey, James, that's rather
bloody book mate, and put it on and paper now

(24:11):
because I've probably changed my mind.

Speaker 6 (24:12):
In the morning.

Speaker 5 (24:12):
So so yeah, it wasn't easy, but I sort of thought,
you know, there's a bit of a story to tell
and some people might like it, some people might not.
But I sort of thought, you know, if I can
make a difference in someone's life, then even if it's
just one person, I'll be bloody stokes so worth a
crackly well.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
On that subject. I mean, what were the hardest bits
for you to dig into? And is there a sort
of do you ever feel guilty about digging into those?
I guess very personal parts of your life that other
people would have been unaware of.

Speaker 6 (24:45):
Not till recently.

Speaker 5 (24:48):
Spoken to some of my closest mates or cane to
and trains around some of the stuff I went through.
You know, it wasn't until probably very recent but once
once I said it, you sort of feel a little
bit shitty and bad, and it's sort of like, ah,
it was better often and I just get it to

(25:08):
myself and I was the only one who knew about it.
But then after a week or two, you know the
support you gives and you actually feel better for it.
I shed open to a massive group of his young
cricketers which we had a meeting to give in christ
it and sort of told them briefly about it and
seeing the response and that I sort of looked at
it when she's lighter, and I do this back in
twenty twelve, like you know, and Mike Sandel was a

(25:31):
huge driver around a problem shed his problem halved, and
it was definitely that once I sort of felt like
sharing those I guess insecurities and few things that you
had and mental sort of battles mental health issues and
sort of felt easier to talk about it. And then
obviously the retirement part was something that was pretty tough
to talk about and pretty tough to put in writing.

(25:53):
But there was a lot of speculation and there's a
lot of talk around it, and people have their own
sort of I guess, you know, made up version or forden.

Speaker 6 (26:03):
It started agin coming.

Speaker 5 (26:04):
Hard when you go out play around a goal for
around and sort of doing at a restaurant and someone
sort of asked something or said something and their own
perception was sort of quite tough to deal with, and
I sort of felt like for my own personal sort
of going out well being you know, I sort of
felt fit out there and I kind of wanted it
from the start, and everyone knows the truth and what happened.

(26:26):
Then I feel more happy about it, so I thought
it's a way to go.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
Yeah, and just to clarify, just for our listeners who
might not have read the book yet, when you're talking
about those mental health battles, you're talking about the trip
to shrit anchor Eity and your create and when you
had a really tough time, you found yourself in an
incredibly dark place. And I mean, I guess you can
tell the story now, but there was a lot going
on in your mind that wasn't good.

Speaker 5 (26:51):
Yeah. To be honest, the team was a pretty tough
place at the time. There was a lot going on,
coaches going on out the environment was a little bit
more selfish, a little bit more yet to look after
your own backyard, and it was tough building relationships and friendships.

Speaker 6 (27:08):
And like I said, I talk about in the book,
you know, the way I came and.

Speaker 5 (27:12):
Brought up in South Africa was being quite hard and
aggressive on the field and quite verbal.

Speaker 6 (27:17):
And that's how I started out over here.

Speaker 5 (27:18):
And a lot of the guys I you know, played
against them, sort of take a liking of that, and
all of a sudden you find being in the same
change room and it's not.

Speaker 6 (27:27):
The sort of key we way.

Speaker 5 (27:29):
I think it took a long long time for people
to get to know you, and at the start I
reckon I probably try too hard to fit in and
wanting to, I guess, show the true side of me.

Speaker 6 (27:40):
And it was quite frustrating at the time. But you know,
when you're in a.

Speaker 5 (27:43):
Deep dark hole and you don't really feel good, when
a little conversation happened and you get there and people
stopped talking which was not about you, you automatically think,
oh gosh, it's got to be about me, you know,
And when you're a in the rabbit hole, you start
thinking the worst. You better I think just going down
room and sitting there with yourself and the team was
in a different place, and Brennan and obviously Hess was

(28:06):
a huge driver that changed the whole. I guess, you know,
I guess the landscape of the team, the whole You
know everything about it, the whole way, the team not
just run, but you know everything about what we wanted
to be here as a team, who we wanted to
play for, how we wanted to play was a huge

(28:27):
drive from from those two and in Kane or you
see a huge part of it as well, changing changing
everything that from the first environment he walked into wasn't
really ortent sary the most welcoming and friendliest environments to
probably one of the best environments in the world now currently.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
You know, you talk about coming from South Africa there,
Neil and there is a there is a sort of
different mentality that South Africans bring onto the field. What
do you think, you know, the South African cricketers that
have come over from South Africa good to New Zealand
bring to New Zealand crew.

Speaker 6 (29:04):
Yeah, look, I think the wall has changed now.

Speaker 5 (29:08):
I think way back in the day there was a
lot more that sort of happening, even if we played
against Australia or Sovaka play Australia Australia Bay in New Zealands.
A lot of that sort of stuff that have happened
a lot more, I think with the landscape of Tea
twenty cred and all these franchise and leagues and a
lot of guys playing with each other and against each other.

Speaker 6 (29:23):
Now you become mates of each other.

Speaker 5 (29:25):
So the banter is still there, but it's a lot
smarter and friendly banter. It's not as aggressive as what
it used to be. I guess, and it's changed massively,
like you're still the oddag year are there? Or people
that don't really see eye to eye like each other.
That sort of still happens. But in the past it
used to be a real intimidation sort of factor. You know,
people try to get under your skin and went quite personal.

(29:46):
That has changed a lot now, and I think it's
through the landscape of obviously the leagues and players getting
to know each other a lot, and friendships I guess
all around the world now.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
Neil, sometimes, to be honest, you looked pretty passed off
You're out there playing, and you know, Michael Jordan famously
latched onto like little things just to get himself fired
up in basketball games. Were you a bit like that?
Did you need to, I guess stoke things along to
get the best out of yourself.

Speaker 5 (30:14):
Every time I played with smile on my face or
do something happy, I don't do it good. So I
had to try and change that way.

Speaker 4 (30:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (30:22):
Look, I struggle with anxiety and pressure streets and pressure
of the game and things that I can really control.

Speaker 6 (30:29):
Selection and you know, what people think about you.

Speaker 5 (30:31):
And at the start of my career, when I was younger,
I read way too much media. I listened to commentators
talking about you know, your scene position, or being good
enough of this or that, and things as you're actually
trying to do, and bits and pieces in it, and
it would be a thing where guys and the team
would take the piss out of you with a little
bit as well. And it got to a point where
you know, you don't try and show it because you

(30:53):
don't want to show weakness. You don't want to show
something that could jeopardize your selection in a way.

Speaker 6 (30:58):
So you just bottle it up.

Speaker 5 (30:59):
And for me, he was trying to channel learn and
obviously I guess try and get aggressive and get in
a fight, in a battle with a better to get
rid of all the other stuff that was.

Speaker 6 (31:10):
Pulling me back and holding me back.

Speaker 5 (31:12):
They had to try and find a blue battle to
give myself to get rid of that strets and anxiety
and pressures and the stuff the negative thoughts was in
your head.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
A release valve very much.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
I want to briefly talk about the end and a
couple of aspects of that. You write very well in
the book about the meeting in Hamilton that you were
called to you kind of blindsided. I was wondering how
you viewed Tim's role in that, and whether you sort
of had admiration for the fact that he's one of
your best mates and he's sitting in that room. I'm

(31:45):
not sure if he's struggling to make eye contact, but
he knows that there's bad news coming. How you kind
of felt about that, And also, in all honesty, when
you came onto the base and as that twelfth man
and the crowd stood as one for you, did you
shed it here?

Speaker 6 (32:01):
I started that first.

Speaker 5 (32:02):
I'm not gonna lie to you. I had a not
on my throat. There was a million things going through
your mind that you just can't explain. Just that Number one,
this is the last moment you're going to have a
black cap and be close to the action in this way.
Then seeing the reaction, what it's meant for people, I
guess in New Zealand and I guess, yeah. Getting their

(32:25):
reaction was something I didn't expect, but it was sort
of overwhelming, to be honest, and I didn't know where
I was quite try and don't know where to look
at one and then instantly I thought, shit, if a
catch come away, don't drop it here now. So my
heart was literally in my throat thinking, gosh, don't make
it up your last little moment. I guess I'm in
the Black Cap and playing in New Zealand, like you
could still play a part in contributing something. Yeah, but yeah,

(32:47):
I mean, hey, myself and Tim went through a hell
of a lot together on and off the field.

Speaker 6 (32:53):
We pretty good mates.

Speaker 5 (32:54):
I write about in the book that you know, when
I came into the scene first, it was probably one
of the guys that didn't like me a lot and
sort of didn't really know what it was like really,
And so he got to know me, I guess better,
and our friendship sort of grew and there was a
lot of trust that grew with that.

Speaker 6 (33:09):
And yeah, we shared a hell of a lot.

Speaker 5 (33:12):
And I know for him, you know, having to sit there,
I guess captain having that discussion, it could not have
been easy.

Speaker 6 (33:18):
It must have been bloody hard.

Speaker 5 (33:19):
And I have a lot of respects for Tim.

Speaker 6 (33:22):
You know.

Speaker 5 (33:22):
The first thing is we picked up the phone afterwards,
and while I was on the road driving back to
my had a yarn of me and spoke to me
over the phone and just trying to really support and
be there and every way he could and the first,
you know instance that he was in the mount with
a black apps camp. He text me and said, listen,
let's catch up the coffee and we'll go, you know,

(33:44):
have something and every yarn. And I've got a lot
of respects for that, and I appreciate that from to
me obviously, and shows you that the leader and the
person he is in that sense.

Speaker 6 (33:51):
And it could not have been easy anyway.

Speaker 5 (33:53):
But that's why I sort of mentioned the book is
that's the brutality of I guess sport and the nature
of I'll probably not the the first, Bobby want be
the last to be able to go through something like this,
and it's it's you know, it's it's gutting. And it
was probably the one of the lowest points I've had,
I guess my career.

Speaker 6 (34:10):
It was pretty tough, but there's learnings and all these
sort of things and you've got to take board I
guess with it.

Speaker 5 (34:15):
And yeah, like I say, although it wasn't easy, you
have to spear forward for the guys involved having to
do it too.

Speaker 6 (34:23):
And like I said, it's the brute and brutal.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
Nachel's classic Dela there zeroing and on the Miserable days. Yeah,
I think you're done. Yeah, classic, mate, Neil. You've made
it pretty clear. I guess in the book about what
you're some of your toughest days in the in the
black cap have been. But but what about what about
some of the great moments? What what? What one or
two or whatever? You know, what comes to mind? Do

(34:45):
you think ship that was a good day?

Speaker 5 (34:50):
It's hard to put a finger on it, because there's
so many moments in your whole career that it's so
so hard to single out. But one of the first
I guess this one's when when Trend I think he
took teen wickets to the base and against you know,
West Indies. You know, I barely contribute in that game.
I didn't really feel to good or ball to her good.

(35:10):
But you know, seeing everyone's face and finally getting your
first Test win and being able to sing the pledge
and doing it out in the middle of the wicket and.

Speaker 6 (35:19):
Seeing the smile on everyone's faces.

Speaker 5 (35:21):
It took about teen, I think or eleven tests before
you got your first Test one. Some of the guys
rocking now and then debut at a first Test one
and I don't really understand how hard it was back
in the day. You know, that was a huge relief
in one of the I guess most treasured moments. I
guess in a black cap getting their first Test win
and singing the pledge for the first time, and in

(35:43):
that space around that time, I think going to about
twenty fifteen sixteen, when when people really knew their role
and stood their role and like I say, you know
the way the team was run. Then the confidence within
the lads and understanding each other's role and knowing that
whole team first dynamic and buying into it, that whole

(36:04):
area there when that started was amazing.

Speaker 6 (36:07):
It was amazing.

Speaker 5 (36:07):
But it's with the whole team just started. You started
feeling a brotherhood building. You started realizing that your mates
are playing for each other. You felt like you wanted
to run for a brick wall for Canaan, Bears and
the guys involved. That there was when, you know, even
on the toughest days of Test crickete, you sat back
and Bears was very much on not getting on too
much of a high or low. And when we lost
a Test match, you could sit down and have a

(36:28):
beer and look at each other and the iron shich
we gave everything, you know, we tried really hard and
no one was pointing fingers. There was no sort of
you know, sort of discussions having behind the doors or
something like that. It was just an amazing environment to
be around and be in, and that sort of grew
as it went, and then I think, you know, coming
in twenty seventeen eighteen, where there was you know, some

(36:50):
really good things happening with the team, you know, starting
a record which was really proud of home. We started
winning test matches at home and becoming a forced to
reckon with home conditions. There was amazing times as well
to be able to just in the change room and
know the bloody hard work has been going and beyond
the scenes of this, it was just that huge I

(37:11):
guess relief and knowing that you know, you story paying
dividends finding forward. Then I guess the Test Series obviously
against England, where myself fish throughout. I mean I remember
looking at the screen on the TV and regular pointed
it out in the change room, you know, thirty something
on years through three years, I think since we've been
in England in the Test Series and walked out to

(37:31):
better vision, you know, finally sort of got a draw
and warn a series. It was a bloody with great
night of celebrations made. It was pretty epick night that
and and that just kept you know, growing and growing,
and that's I said. It was so many moments and
and and all you guys and uh and you know

(37:52):
in our test history that sort of added to you know,
significant dates with that and yeah, that World Test Championship
Final made.

Speaker 6 (37:59):
It's hard to That's that's something that will always stick
with me.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
The guys have just had a bit of a moment themselves.
Now you have any thoughts on Ada and three nil.

Speaker 4 (38:08):
And three zip meal?

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Did you put any money on there at the TV?

Speaker 5 (38:15):
Well, I'm not allowed to beat yet still because I'm
still playing cricket right, Yeah, but if I was a
betting man made.

Speaker 6 (38:21):
Chief as I would never guessed that.

Speaker 5 (38:23):
Look, hey, when you get on a plane going to India,
you're excited because you know it's going to be a
tough challenge. You're excited about the you know, the whole
playing cricket in India, how much they love it and
get beyond the.

Speaker 6 (38:35):
Support that everything that goes with it.

Speaker 5 (38:37):
But you know, as soon as you get on their plane,
your backskins the wall and it's a it's a bloody
tough place to go and play, mate, for so many reasons.
Obviously history shows no one has done it before for
them to go up there, you know, bounce back after Slanka.

Speaker 6 (38:52):
When not just the first test, within the second teast
and the third test.

Speaker 5 (38:56):
That is incredibly hard to go over there and play
and will achieve that, mate, it's bloody art to top that.
It would be a pinnacle of most people's careers. I reckon,
I said last night. I sort of thought maybe, you know,
winning in Australian winning your box and atists probably probably
could get up there, topping there, but no one has
done an India made and that's just a phenomenal achievement.

(39:17):
And I'm so stoked for those boys that are on
involved and I know what their changing would have been
like afterwards, and it's it's finally want to be and
now I can tell you that.

Speaker 6 (39:26):
But amazing achievement and just brought a bunch of for
the lads.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, great stuff. Well, Neil, how do you feel about
some quick fire questions? Mate? Is that all right to
finish off the interview here?

Speaker 6 (39:37):
You sure can. I'm bloody horrible with these times.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, you'll be fine, do you want to kick us off?
Pulled forward with the first question.

Speaker 4 (39:44):
Neil, if you weren't a professional cricketer, what would you be?

Speaker 6 (39:48):
Oh? Formally one driver? Or I'd love to be an
all black?

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Oh you're nice. Does your wife do your Instagram?

Speaker 6 (39:56):
No?

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Mine does?

Speaker 3 (39:59):
What what opposition?

Speaker 6 (40:01):
Because sometimes I don't know how to do the bloody?

Speaker 4 (40:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (40:03):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
Hey, what one opposition player do you wish could have
been on your team?

Speaker 6 (40:10):
A good question? I have a hushing mammer okay, roll? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Nice?

Speaker 4 (40:24):
Nice worst roommate and why oh.

Speaker 5 (40:29):
Jesus too, that's James ni number one, number two. I
want to say Scott google line.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah nice. What is your weirdest superstition or Rachel?

Speaker 5 (40:45):
Oh gosh, I wouldn't say it's a superstition of richeal,
But I'm I've got O C D. And I'm very
neat and clean and tidy, which none would sort of
pick from me, but annoy the living crapit on my teammates.
My stuff will be clean and in a nice place
and between Selvy Bolts and Blundle. They always used to
just go muck around and I'll get back in the

(41:06):
change room, mate, and I should just be everywhere. And
I think it's funny, but yeah, it's it's not a superstition,
but I just like it.

Speaker 6 (41:12):
And yeah, they probably the worst thing about me.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Nice, easy one. Who was your favorite umpire?

Speaker 5 (41:18):
Oh gonna, it's got to be Richard Kilber is good. Yeah,
Richard Kilber was very nice. I enjoyed joy having him
in the other end.

Speaker 6 (41:33):
Could laugh.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
Meal when you're cooking at home my go to meal.

Speaker 5 (41:38):
Oh gosh, anything in a barbecue, mate, steak and bere
and yeah, whatever I can cook in the.

Speaker 6 (41:42):
Barbecue, beautiful.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
The most disorganized person you've ever played alongside got to
be a niche again, wouldn't it?

Speaker 6 (41:49):
No?

Speaker 5 (41:50):
Bj Watling, okay, made his gloves are not number They
all in a mess, like's got to be twelve and
for you, yeah, he has some gloves and you can't
get a pee together.

Speaker 6 (42:01):
It's just all over the place being miss individual.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
But what's the strangest thing you've ever had to autograph?
This isn't a family show, so you can say whatever
you want.

Speaker 6 (42:17):
Gosh, there's been a few things. There's a blow up
doll here, undies and a bank card right.

Speaker 4 (42:33):
Sorry, what's Cricket's most annoying rule.

Speaker 6 (42:38):
Can't buy more pounces enough.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Where is your black cap right now?

Speaker 4 (42:45):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (42:46):
Great question. It's in the bag. I've got this little.

Speaker 5 (42:51):
Bag that I put all the caps from every team
that I've played for and represented, so Tigo and obviously
Normal Districts and and the Black Caps. It's my kit
bag and I've taken this out and it's just sitting
on top with my Black CAP's helmet, which has now
been taken out of my bag in this little trophy
campne thing. I've gone the garage and I haven't touched

(43:13):
it since the last day since retirement, and it's due
to get touched now because.

Speaker 6 (43:19):
I've got to get my indie cap out of it.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
So for this week's game, who is the best sledger
you've come across from World Cricket?

Speaker 6 (43:27):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Good question.

Speaker 5 (43:37):
Yeah, I had a pinpoint one, but Matthew simply was outstanding.
I had a lot of battles of Skippy and he
was bloody funny mate. I walked out one day onto
McLean Park playing a game and I had a muffin

(43:57):
from Tea and I put it on a lengthh Andy
Whens way too full for you, and he was just
always starting some bant or some sledge or something, and
there was always a heated battle of myself. And so
I want to say, skippy Matthewson clears up there, and yeah,

(44:18):
Joe Root wasn't far behind with a few funny comments.
You were there and Aby Devilliers and Graham Smith was
giving me a mouthful and my first teamitch against Sinapia.

Speaker 4 (44:31):
Yeah, what's your most embarrassing moment?

Speaker 6 (44:38):
I played a game in South Africa. I went quite
hardy opposition and I walked out to bats and the
guy kept asking me how's your pants feeling? And I
was like, I want to think where this is going.

Speaker 5 (44:52):
And I just didn't bite back and sort of left
and he kept going, keep going and goes, mate, can
you can can you get better them in that?

Speaker 6 (45:00):
Like surely?

Speaker 5 (45:01):
After you even think I've been dishing out to you?
What the hell are you talking about? Mate, I've body pants?
Like surely, and he goes, how's your pants feeling? I
was like fine, mate, He goes, well they're on the
wrong way around, mate, And this went on for a
good half an hour, and yeah, I felt like an
episoute idiot after that, to be honest, and I had
to bet my my pants the other way around, trying

(45:23):
to think you don't get out now, and I don't
get out.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
And finally, Neil, the last book you read be all out,
woonn't it?

Speaker 6 (45:32):
No?

Speaker 2 (45:34):
I can never remember the titles of the books I'm reading.

Speaker 6 (45:37):
I'm a shocker, honey, funny enough, I'm horrible. I do
not read a lot of books, and.

Speaker 5 (45:46):
I'm a shocker when it comes to reading. I'm not
the best reading myself, so I never thought I would
write a book myself. But I actually read The Three Quicks,
which was myself and a book there Trivia. I'll get it, honestly,
that's kind of the last book I'll read on this.
I feel it was the book I.

Speaker 6 (46:06):
Recently read, and for some reason I can't remember now,
but yeah, good one. I don't actually read a lot
of books, which is yeah, it comes to nice surprise.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Well, Neil Wagner, you're an absolute legend, mate. You were
hugely and are still hugely loved by the fans out there. Mate,
what a career to be proud of. And Mate, all
the best with your book. I'm sure it's going to
go great guns and hopefully, hopefully we still see you
around about the place.

Speaker 6 (46:37):
No, definitely, mate, I'm still playing cricket. I'm getting on
the older side now.

Speaker 5 (46:40):
I don't know how long I've got left, but I'm
enjoying playing for and D and who knows, hopefully get
stuck into their black chess game someone way to come
from the near future. But you know, thank you very
much for having me.

Speaker 4 (46:54):
Welcome back to the b YC. And Jason Howitz Bealves
have hit it off to a meeting and it's poor
for a Dylan Cleaver here, Dylan Neil Wagner, what a
good bugger. And I had a question for you. Actually
he mentioned working with the writer of the book.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
Was that you No, No, it wasn't. Actually I did
write about Neil Wagner and the best selling modern New
Zealand cricket Greats. But no, I believe it was a
very talented writer named James Borrowdale, who I think And
I'm sure I'll be let know if I get this wrong,
but I'm pretty sure he is of South African heritage

(47:32):
as well.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
Oh good stuff. Well, I mean, I'm sure you couldn't
tell during the interview, but I haven't read the book,
but I'm very keen to get my hands on forty bucks,
so get stuck into it.

Speaker 6 (47:42):
Now.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
It's a decent read, and we didn't sort of broach it.
But some of the stuff around him growing up in
Pretoria and relatively straightened circumstances was really interesting as well,
and kind of he needed a few things to fall
his way to get into the the right school, to
get noticed by the right people. But in the end,
you know, it wasn't quite enough. He struggled to I mean,

(48:05):
he made it into that South African first class system,
but for various reasons, his ceiling was relatively low in there.
So I think he made the great call to come
to this fear land of ours.

Speaker 4 (48:18):
We should talk about the black Cats or so Sri Lanka,
But I just wanted to say one thing. I was
surprised that didn't come out. Any of his answers around
his favorite cricketers and all that kind of stuff was
Fath Dupless, who I know he was very close to
when he was growing up. I think they were schoolmates
and he used to go to the Duplesses for cricket
training and all of that kind of stuff. But keep
that one under his hat today. Dylan Blackcats well, you

(48:41):
must be excited. What a great way to celebrate a
magnificent test victure in India. Then heading to Sri Lanka
from some t twenties and one day is it? There's
five matches over there, starting on Sunday night, actually Sunday
morning at two thirty am. I think it is doublehead
of Sunday and Monday two thirty am starts and then

(49:02):
the first one day or is at ten pm on
Wednesday night. Yeah, how do you feel about this one, Dylan?
I'm not sitting there Lar.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
I'm not really that interested in the tea twenties. I mean,
I'll watch them because it's what I do. But you
know what as a kind of a.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
Well, what do you call that thing?

Speaker 3 (49:21):
What's that little drink you have in France when you
finished your main meal? Is it a pestif pestis or
a pair of tief is beforehand? And then yeah, I
think it's you have something to close the stomach afterwards,
a brandy or something like that. Yeah, the one days
we'll do it for me? Is she? For the simple
reason is there's like I don't really care about the results.

(49:43):
Well I say that now, but I'm really intrigued to
see a couple of these guys that have been waiting
for opportunities, Zach Fuchs or Fuchs. Is that how you
say that, Fuchs or folks or I.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
Think it's folks.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Looking forward to watching him player looking forward to watching
Tim Robinson, Mitch Hay, Nathan Smith. Like there's a real
sprinkling of under thirties in there, which is not that
common in New Zealand international cricket scene at the moment.
So yeah, I'm excited enough. What about you?

Speaker 4 (50:19):
Oh yeah, look, I'm excited to see how Nathan Smith goes.
You mentioned him and Mitch Hay, then keeper batsman from Canterbury.
I think the other debutante that's in there. I think
Smith was a Domestic Player of the Year last year
and I think Hay was Canterbury's Player of the Year
and nice to see those guys have a crack and
get stuck in. I think Smith's in particular is really

(50:41):
banging on the door. And you would imagine, I don't
know that who would be the next wicket keeper up
if Blundle was injured in the Test patch. I was
just trying to work that out of my head on
the fly.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
I think the vindicated that Mitch Hay is seen as
a red bull option was perhaps Daine Cleaver, who's over
time has got the best record of them. I think
you've seen more a white ball keeper at the stage
of his career, and you know he's plus thirty now
as well.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
He might be.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
He might have missed his.

Speaker 4 (51:13):
Y, missed the bus. Also, I always look forward to
seeing Lockie Ferguson and he'll be leading that attack with
Jacob Duffy, the two old dogs, and then yeah, just
say folks and Smith and Clarkson, I guess will be
the main, the main, the main event on that front.
Lots of guys aren't available for this series. Blundle Conway
later Mitchell O'Rourke sow the ravender Williamson of course, and
then add an a shock out with the back injury.

(51:35):
Ben says is still injured in Cole Jamison, I think's
out till kind of March next year at the earliest.
So yeah, it's a bit of a ragtag bunch.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
But yeah, I guess we'll know we've already talked about
him on this podcast at length. But I'm also looking
forward to you you go through that squad there and
I'll just quickly run through it sent Nichols, Young, Robinson, Braceball, Chapman, Clarkson, Folks, Foxcrift, Phillips, Ferguson,
Duffy Hay and Nathan Smith. You know, Will Young is

(52:05):
almost like the senior player in there now, and he's
coming off the first kind of I guess, coming of
age moment in his test cricket. I'd be interested to
see if he just is a little bit more puffed
out at the crease if you if you know what
I mean, you can tell when a batsman feels like
he might have made it. He knows that he belongs,

(52:27):
He knows that that's a far better way of putting it.
He now knows he belongs and can play at this level.
And I just like to see if that transfers to
the other formats and just as general countenance on the
field hard to measure obviously countenance.

Speaker 6 (52:41):
But.

Speaker 4 (52:44):
Yeah, we'll see, We'll see how he goes. I feel
like the New Zealanders have got something to prove after
the shoddiness of the of the Test matches. As well.
Other good news, I guess the world champion white ferns
are rampaging their way around New Zealand, including to Havelock North,
I know, and there are national tour they swung by
Tarwa College and Tawa Intermediate here in Wellington over the

(53:05):
recent days of Absolute Powerhouse under the tutelage of Robbie Kerr,
of course, absolute magnet for woman's cricket talent over the
over the years. Warm fuzzies around this one DC.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
Yeah, I mean it's well, it's not a shame, It's
never a shame, but it almost feels like they didn't
get a long enough celebration before events moved to Benglaruho
and Pune and Mumbai. But yeah, we shouldn't forget that.
It wasn't long ago that they just pulled one out
of the fire and it was brilliant And look, I

(53:41):
hope they get all the kudos that's coming their way,
and I hope, as we've mentioned before, I hope it
actually translates into real gains for women's cricket around the country,
whether it be coverage, whether it be particip participation numbers
or just general vibe of the thing. Will be fantastic.
But have some of the players gone on to the WBBL,

(54:03):
which is in full swing right now. I was doing
quick check of scorecards. I haven't seen much yet.

Speaker 4 (54:10):
Yeah, I don't know if they have made it over now.
Maybe obviously Ameliacur and Sophie Devine and the like, they've
certainly been on tour, but whether they're doing the whole
shooting box, I'm not quite sure. So maybe you might
find that they go their separate ways over the next
few days. The other thing that's coming out on the
women's cricket front is the Future Tours program, effectively for

(54:31):
in the scheduling for the women's cricket and there was
a bit of speculation leading in and then leading out
of that announcement. The likes of Susie Bates and Sophie
Divine merely occurre obviously really gagging to be playing some
test cricket, but the economics, from the sound of it,
just did not stack up for New Zealand cricket. So
it looks like that is not going to be a thing.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Yeah, I wonder if it evid will I mean, it
feels like something that in Yeah, Australia and England will
do and no one else will. I mean, have South
Africa played a Test? Did they play one recently? I
think they may have actually, yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:09):
Maybe, And I think the West Indies have got a
couple of test matches scheduled in this in this next
set as well, and certainly England are going to be
playing Westernies, India, Australian South Africa and test matches. So okay, yeah,
we seem like a bit of an odd one out
in terms of not being able to do that. But
economics I think plays a big part there obviously.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Yeah, I don't know how I feel about that, to
be honest, I don't know if I can quite work
up the requisite outrage for it, because yeah, I like
the I like the way woman's cricket is trending in
the T twenties and ODI's and the way it's being played.
Would I be gagging for a woman's test match? I

(55:49):
mean it's not up to me. Oh yes, but you know,
probably not.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
And you've got to say when you I don't know
if you've had a good look at it yet, but
you know that when you look at that FTP cycle,
there's a very quite a clinical calendar, unlike the men's game,
quite a clinical calendar with carve outs for the major
T twenty competitions. Obviously, the T twenty World Cup every
couple of years, the fifty over World Cup every four years.
It's actually pretty damn organized compared to that absolute smagas

(56:17):
board Shenanigans that is the men's schedule. Now obviously that's
economics as well, but yeah, it looks a hell of
a lot more organized that from a from A for
the woman. But anyway, on we go.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
That clinically. Can I mention something that's maybe not as
clinically organized as the women's FTP, and that is Auckland
Crickets scheduling. So press release dropped in into my inbox
this morning and it's we've already broached this topic, but
it was there were a couple of Auckland dates in

(56:53):
the Super Smash the Dream of eleven Supersmash that were TBC,
and the press release reads, please note the venues for
Auckland's for Dream eleven super Smash games on January thirteen
and fifteen, initially slated for Eden Park before being compromised
by a music concert, have been agreed to below and
they're going to Seddon Park and McClain Park. Napier. I

(57:18):
can confirm that neither Seddon Park, Hamilton nor mcclaim Park
Napier are in fact in Auckland. And I also, I mean,
did you detect a kind of sneering irritability from New
Zealand Cricket in that press release pool?

Speaker 4 (57:35):
Yes, a little bit. And I mean the other thing
is that I think it's the Luke isn't it the
Luke Combs concert. I don't even like that big country
and Western singer guy. And so I mean tickets on
that have been literally to the Eaton Park concert on
that day have been signed, sealed, delivered, sold, months and
months and months ago, so it shouldn't really be a surprise,
but yet the announcement is so so late. So yeah,

(58:00):
Shamble's absolute chambers.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
And this has wider implications obviously, and that and Scott
Weinding's got a bit of grief for this when he
came out and back to Eden Park is the future
home of New Zealand cricket or cricket in Auckland, International
cricket in Auckland. And I know exactly why he had
to do it. I mean, you want to host cricket
in the biggest city in the country and if there

(58:23):
are no other options, you back the option. That's potentially available.
But eden Park, on the other hand, have made it
very very clear that they see their summer future in
the concert game. Stadiums for music. Concerts need huge leaden
times to prepare them and get them ready. Cricket is

(58:47):
just going to be forced to the margins in Auckland
unless they get a bespoke venue. I mean, I'm banging
my head against the brick wall here. Eden Park is
not the future for cricket in Auckland. It's a diabolical
set of affairs which was just in this just kind
of reinforced it.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
Yeah, they're turning into the full the equivalent of Pakistan
and international cricket and days gone by, recent days gone by. Yeah,
not not great, not great. But I want to keep
an eye on too, because, as you say, yeah, the
sneering irritability, they cannot continue. You wouldn't. You wouldn't assume, Hey, Dylan,
have you got a who am I? This week?

Speaker 6 (59:29):
I have?

Speaker 4 (59:30):
It's Dylan Cleavers. Who am I.

Speaker 5 (59:35):
You were?

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Last week? A couple of sharp eyed listeners or sharp
aired listeners detected correctly that who am I was Mark Burgess,
the blue eyed Aucan grammar schoolboy, and they were Michael
Seth and Patrick Peterson are there, Michaels. I made a
reference to him being usurped by another blue eyed Ucan

(59:58):
grammar boy, and he thought that I was reference seeing
Martin Crow, but in fact I was referencing another one,
which was Jeffrey Phillip Howerth who took over the captaincy
from Mark Burgess and kind of led the first Golden
era of New Zealand cricket ready through his urbane captaincy.

Speaker 4 (01:00:18):
Mark Burgess was a gun fielder too, right. I remember
my dad talking about Mark Burgess and the covers, the
young fellow, and I didn't quite know who he meant,
but yeah, I worked I did work that out, and
didn't he. I think he also worked at Britain Cricket
Cricket bat sales and sports goods and all of that,
which was obviously I think that was where Phil Horn

(01:00:38):
ended up as well. But after after subsequently, ye man
Phil Horn? Yeah, okay, cool, we have you got a
new Have you got another? Who am I for us?
This week?

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
Certainly have? And I think I've made the clues a
little bit harder, a little bit more cryptic this time around.
But I guess the listeners will tell me if that's
the case.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Who am I?

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Is the case with a lot of New Zealand cricketers.
My wisdom career summary comes with the classic did his
talent no justice? Line, But that's not strictly true. While
that might have described the majority of my seventy international matches,
I found enormous comfort in the middle of a foreign field,
specifically one patch of grass surrounded by streets like Kennington

(01:01:22):
av Surrey Road and Lancashire Road. Very strange. I'm being
a little oblique here, which is the opposite of my
batting that was very direct. I could have been a
great T twenty I player, although I never played one.
Very strange. Although I'm a wisty, my career revival occurred

(01:01:44):
while I was a banker in Europe's financial capital. Then
I became a wisty of sorts. Again, very strange. All
good things must come to an end. Mine did at
Milton Keynes, of all places. Very strange. Who the hell
am I?

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
Do you have any clues for intriguing? No, I don't.

Speaker 6 (01:02:06):
I feel.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
Oh it's really got my brain wearing mate, this one.
This one, yeah, No, this is I'm gonna have to
wrap the memory banks and get the get the men
and white out. I think for this one, I've got
one of those big exhibition copies as big as a
table of men in white that we got loan to
us from the tab and I'm the acc custodian of

(01:02:27):
that book and it is an absolute beast. So I'll
have a look and see what I can find intriguing clues. Hey,
before we go, I do have a violence corner, poor
forwards cricket violence corner, yes, And this week great news
tip following terrible news, A man has been arrested following

(01:02:48):
a burglary at the home of England cricket captain Ben Stokes.
Stokes was in Pakistan for the recent Test series and
his wife and two children rapped the property in Castle Eden,
County Durham, when a masked, gang broken two year old
man from North Yorkshire was arrested overnight on suspicion of
burglary and he has been released on bail. Stak Stokes
said his family did not come to any physical harm,

(01:03:09):
but a number of sentimental items were taken, including the
medal for his obe, which he received in twenty twenty
for helping England draw the World Cup the year before.
He posted pictures of the missing items on social media,
which also included three necklaces, a ring and a designer bag. Yes,

(01:03:29):
well I'm not saying that he deserved it, but yeah,
good news for him. But what a thing to steal
the OBA awarded after the atrocious crackle.

Speaker 3 (01:03:40):
Yeah, it's a real thing in England, isn't it. It
happens often to football players that when they go away
to play in Europe their houses get burgled by otunistic
masked robbers.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
Grim, Hey, DC, we've crept on for long enough today,
thanks to everybody for listening. If you've got a short epistle,
flick at our way b YC at Basebagade dot cod
on NZ will slide into their dms on the ACC
or the base Brigade on Instagram or Facebook and we
will copy and paste that into our WhatsApp group and

(01:04:16):
folded into our our episode next week. But in the meantime, DC,
you have a great week, and we hope Jason's bowls
are okay. And I'll tell you what, no matter what
happens in Sri Lanka, we probably won't be coming in
as hot and excited as we did. Today because this
may be, we may be in the aftermath of the
greatest ever performance by a New Zealand cricket team and

(01:04:37):
the greatest Fortnite in BYC history.