Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining us now from the Family Research Council. David Clausen
is here. David, welcome in, Thanks for being here, joy.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
To be on the program. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Well, I'm afraid to ask you, but I saw this
new study and I said, I got to talk to
David about this. A new study out now showing that
the United States churchgoers' views are shifting rapidly. Let me guess,
not in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
No, unfortunately not. This survey we did with you know,
the well known researcher George Barnham, and it looks at
regular church goers, people don't that don't just identify as Christian,
but who actually go to church, and we ask them
a series of questions on really just basic theological questions
as well as more kind of cultural and political issues.
(00:40):
I will say there are some silver linings, but some
of the shifts are in the wrong direction.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
All right, what do you attribute that to? And you know,
I've heard before that Christianity is blossoming all over the world,
but in the United States it's actually slowing down and
kind of digressing. So what's what's behind the cause.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
That's a that's a good question. I think there's probably
multiple reasons behind it. I will say, though, these numbers
that we're looking at right here, church attendance is up
in America. We are at pre COVID levels in many
places around the country, largely actually fueled by gen Z
(01:20):
returning to church first time ever. We see young men
actually going to church at higher rates than their counterparts
young women. No other generation do we see that, and
so I do think this is an opportunity. But I
will say with rapidly you asked the question what's causing this?
(01:40):
I think secularization, I think a watering down of basic truths,
theological liberalism, the rise of those in this country who
don't even identify with religions. So there's a lot of
causes I think. But again I'm always wanting to be
an optimist. I do see with gen Z in particular
Bible prayer, church attendance, what an opportunity for pastors to
(02:04):
kind of kind of I don't know, refocus on what
the basics of the Gospel are to folks who are
ready to hear it.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
You know, somebody told me a long time ago that
God is not here to grant us our desires. God
is there to change our desires and God's laws and
God's way and God's teachings have been the same as
they were, you know, one hundred million years ago, as
they will be today in one hundred million years from now.
(02:33):
They don't waiver. And what I finally mentioned secularism is
that people, you know, like they'll ride the wave of
what's the societal societal view of the day, you know,
the way it ought to be djure. For instance, there
are a lot of church leaders now that are compromising
the gospel. And you know, if you're going to be
(02:55):
a leader and a teacher of Christianity and God and
following Jesus, you can't compromise the gospel, no matter how
much you want to get along. And well always shouldn't
be so hard on x y Z. Well always shouldn't
have such a strong opinion about it, you know, Well
granted you shouldn't, but God's opinion doesn't change. So I
(03:16):
don't know why we're trying to please so many people
all of the time, and you know, not continue to
bring the truth as you mentioned, that just blows my mind.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Well, I think your impulse right, there is one deeply
rooted in scripture. You're right, God does not change He's
the same yesterday, today, and forever. And you know, I
live and work here in Washington, d C. And you know,
there's a lot of folks who want to bear a
lot of people want to be able to cite God
on their side on whatever their issue is. And I
think we need to be honest as Christians. There are
(03:48):
some issues where we can agree to disagree. The Bible
give us principles on probably any issue that you consider
in the public square. But you know, on immigration, I
think Christians can agree to disagree on some aspects of that.
But on other issues such as family, human dignity, sexuality,
the abortion question, there is a thus saith the Lord.
(04:09):
There is a chapter in verse we can go to.
And so again, my hope with this research project is
that pastors will look at where we are and realize, hey,
if this is kind of where America is right now
on some of these issues the Bible speaks to. Again,
I'm never someone that wants to beat up on pastors,
but hey, here's kind of the results of the test. Now,
let's teach to the test, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
And look, you know, I get, you know, having different
ways to interpret scripture and different opinions coming in. But
I think it gets really down to the fundamental basis
of you either believe Jesus is who he says he
is or you don't. Okay. And if you say, well,
Jesus was just a good guy, he was a prophet
(04:51):
and he meant well, and you know, but I'm not
buying this whole thing of being the Messiah, Well no,
you can't have it both ways.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Forget, Jesus is either who he says he is. I
am the Great, I am the way, the truth in
the life, and nobody gets to the Father except through me.
That's either the foundation of your belief or you're calling
Jesus a liar because if he says who he is
and you don't buy that, then you think he's a fraud,
and that's not being a nice guy in a prophet.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
You're absolutely right. And you know what's interesting is Jesus
himself doesn't give us any other option. Billy Graham, the
Great Evangelist, died at age ninety nine. He wanted one
verse etched on his tombstone, and it was John fourteen
six that says, or Jesus himself tells us to his
disciples I am the Way, the Truth, and the life.
No man comes to the Father except through me, so
Jesus doesn't give us any other option, you know. Cornerstone
(05:45):
number three. In our research we lay out seven cornerstones.
These are basic beliefs that you need to really believe
to be considered someone the biblical world. Cornerstone number three
asked the question on salvation, how do you know what
happens to you when you die? He's actually only thirty
six percent of regular churchgoer said when they die, they
believe they'll go to heaven because they've confessed sin and
(06:07):
accepted Jesus as their savior. And then you can look
at the research and see what the other options were.
But again, I would argue that that is not an
issue where there's two opinions that are equally valid. E.
Three twenty three Roman six twenty three John three to sixteen,
famous verse in the Bible. There's one way to salvation.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Jesus makes that clear one hundred percent. Well, I'm so
glad to see that what's happened with Charlie Kirk, and
you know, his movement and his assassination, that God is
being glorified in all of this and the request for
more of what he was doing for these from these
college campus is just amazing and just I'm so thankful
to hear the stats on young gen Z men as
(06:47):
well going back to church and women will follow that
as well as men, you know, need to be the
leader in the homes and you know and guide you know,
the families in that direction. So that's great news. But yeah,
you're right, there's a lot of pressure from society to
accept everything and if you don't, you're a hater. And
it's just not that way. I mean, at the end
(07:09):
of the day. You can have an opinion. I can
have one, Billy Graham can have an opinion, but the
only opinion that matters is God's. And I'm going to
scripture on that one. All right, buddy, thank you so much.
Great talking to you. We'll have you back. Appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Thank you so much.
Joining us now from the Family Research Council. David Clausen
is here. David, welcome in, Thanks for being here, joy.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
To be on the program. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Well, I'm afraid to ask you, but I saw this
new study and I said, I got to talk to
David about this. A new study out now showing that
the United States churchgoers' views are shifting rapidly. Let me guess,
not in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
No, unfortunately not. This survey we did with you know,
the well known researcher George Barnham, and it looks at
regular church goers, people don't that don't just identify as Christian,
but who actually go to church, and we ask them
a series of questions on really just basic theological questions
as well as more kind of cultural and political issues.
(00:40):
I will say there are some silver linings, but some
of the shifts are in the wrong direction.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
All right, what do you attribute that to? And you know,
I've heard before that Christianity is blossoming all over the world,
but in the United States it's actually slowing down and
kind of digressing. So what's what's behind the cause.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
That's a that's a good question. I think there's probably
multiple reasons behind it. I will say, though, these numbers
that we're looking at right here, church attendance is up
in America. We are at pre COVID levels in many
places around the country, largely actually fueled by gen Z
(01:20):
returning to church first time ever. We see young men
actually going to church at higher rates than their counterparts
young women. No other generation do we see that, and
so I do think this is an opportunity. But I
will say with rapidly you asked the question what's causing this?
(01:40):
I think secularization, I think a watering down of basic truths,
theological liberalism, the rise of those in this country who
don't even identify with religions. So there's a lot of
causes I think. But again I'm always wanting to be
an optimist. I do see with gen Z in particular
Bible prayer, church attendance, what an opportunity for pastors to
(02:04):
kind of kind of I don't know, refocus on what
the basics of the Gospel are to folks who are
ready to hear it.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
You know, somebody told me a long time ago that
God is not here to grant us our desires. God
is there to change our desires and God's laws and
God's way and God's teachings have been the same as
they were, you know, one hundred million years ago, as
they will be today in one hundred million years from now.
(02:33):
They don't waiver. And what I finally mentioned secularism is
that people, you know, like they'll ride the wave of
what's the societal societal view of the day, you know,
the way it ought to be djure. For instance, there
are a lot of church leaders now that are compromising
the gospel. And you know, if you're going to be
(02:55):
a leader and a teacher of Christianity and God and
following Jesus, you can't compromise the gospel, no matter how
much you want to get along. And well always shouldn't
be so hard on x y Z. Well always shouldn't
have such a strong opinion about it, you know, Well
granted you shouldn't, but God's opinion doesn't change. So I
(03:16):
don't know why we're trying to please so many people
all of the time, and you know, not continue to
bring the truth as you mentioned, that just blows my mind.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Well, I think your impulse right, there is one deeply
rooted in scripture. You're right, God does not change He's
the same yesterday, today, and forever. And you know, I
live and work here in Washington, d C. And you know,
there's a lot of folks who want to bear a
lot of people want to be able to cite God
on their side on whatever their issue is. And I
think we need to be honest as Christians. There are
(03:48):
some issues where we can agree to disagree. The Bible
give us principles on probably any issue that you consider
in the public square. But you know, on immigration, I
think Christians can agree to disagree on some aspects of that.
But on other issues such as family, human dignity, sexuality,
the abortion question, there is a thus saith the Lord.
(04:09):
There is a chapter in verse we can go to.
And so again, my hope with this research project is
that pastors will look at where we are and realize, hey,
if this is kind of where America is right now
on some of these issues the Bible speaks to. Again,
I'm never someone that wants to beat up on pastors,
but hey, here's kind of the results of the test. Now,
let's teach to the test, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
And look, you know, I get, you know, having different
ways to interpret scripture and different opinions coming in. But
I think it gets really down to the fundamental basis
of you either believe Jesus is who he says he
is or you don't. Okay. And if you say, well,
Jesus was just a good guy, he was a prophet
(04:51):
and he meant well, and you know, but I'm not
buying this whole thing of being the Messiah, Well no,
you can't have it both ways.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Forget, Jesus is either who he says he is. I
am the Great, I am the way, the truth in
the life, and nobody gets to the Father except through me.
That's either the foundation of your belief or you're calling
Jesus a liar because if he says who he is
and you don't buy that, then you think he's a fraud,
and that's not being a nice guy in a prophet.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
You're absolutely right. And you know what's interesting is Jesus
himself doesn't give us any other option. Billy Graham, the
Great Evangelist, died at age ninety nine. He wanted one
verse etched on his tombstone, and it was John fourteen
six that says, or Jesus himself tells us to his
disciples I am the Way, the Truth, and the life.
No man comes to the Father except through me, so
Jesus doesn't give us any other option, you know. Cornerstone
(05:45):
number three. In our research we lay out seven cornerstones.
These are basic beliefs that you need to really believe
to be considered someone the biblical world. Cornerstone number three
asked the question on salvation, how do you know what
happens to you when you die? He's actually only thirty
six percent of regular churchgoer said when they die, they
believe they'll go to heaven because they've confessed sin and
(06:07):
accepted Jesus as their savior. And then you can look
at the research and see what the other options were.
But again, I would argue that that is not an
issue where there's two opinions that are equally valid. E.
Three twenty three Roman six twenty three John three to sixteen,
famous verse in the Bible. There's one way to salvation.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Jesus makes that clear one hundred percent. Well, I'm so
glad to see that what's happened with Charlie Kirk, and
you know, his movement and his assassination, that God is
being glorified in all of this and the request for
more of what he was doing for these from these
college campus is just amazing and just I'm so thankful
to hear the stats on young gen Z men as
(06:47):
well going back to church and women will follow that
as well as men, you know, need to be the
leader in the homes and you know and guide you know,
the families in that direction. So that's great news. But yeah,
you're right, there's a lot of pressure from society to
accept everything and if you don't, you're a hater. And
it's just not that way. I mean, at the end
(07:09):
of the day. You can have an opinion. I can
have one, Billy Graham can have an opinion, but the
only opinion that matters is God's. And I'm going to
scripture on that one. All right, buddy, thank you so much.
Great talking to you. We'll have you back. Appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Thank you so much.
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