Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Alabama's Morning News. My name is John Mounts,
filling in for JT. And we now turn our attention
once again to Iran, as President Trump is denying that
he's working on an Iran Israeli ceasefire, saying he wants
real end to the conflict. Yesterday, while on Air Force One,
Donald Trump spoke to reporters about the US response should
Iran decide to retally, He'll come.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Down so hard?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Are they doing anything?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
People welcome down so hard that the loves her off
so beautifully?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Now they.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
They I think they know that to Dutch aller dreams.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
But what should America want and why should we care?
Joining me now is doctor Ivan Sasha. She and he
is the Associate dean of the College of Public Affairs
at the University of Baltimore and a full professor with tenure. Sasha,
Welcome to Alabama's Morning News.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
John. It's great to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I want to start off with how do we get here?
It seems like for the last fifty years the United
States has been involved in Iranian affairs. Why is that?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Well, John, it's a great question. Man. It's important that
we take a step back from the current existential crisis
facing the regime. You're correct that the violence that's intensified
over the past few days is actually part of a
much broader pattern of instability that originates with the Iranian
regime itself, and what's triggered this latest round of escalation
(01:23):
is not new aggression, but the continuation of a four
decade long strategy by the clerical regime to both export
chaos but also suppress dissent at home. You know, John,
we could talk at length about the drivers of the
current crisis. We could continue to talk about Israel's strikes
(01:46):
on Iranian command and control centers, and we could talk
for days about the vulnerabilities of the Iranian regime. But
at some point we and I think individuals around the world,
will need to turn their attention to the most critical
component of creating lasting change in Iran, and that is
(02:11):
the Iranian people. You know, one of the things that
I've been saying over the past forty eight hours is
that the toppling of the theocracy in Iran is ultimately
their project. It cannot be a Western endeavor regime change
that's imposed that the tip of a spear is very
(02:33):
often not lasting and not perceived as credible, and I've
believe that US authorities at this juncture would be wise
to support the Iranian people's right to self determination and
help them throw off the chains of their pressors.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
If you look at years gone by, I'm talking like
fifty years ago, pictures taken of the Iranian people back
in the nineteen seventies, and you see women studying at
the universities, and the women are dressed like women here
in the United States. Here they're wearing shorts and crop
tops and that sort of thing. And now everyone's in
the full garb. How much things have changed in the country.
(03:15):
And I guess it's because of the theocracy. And I
think it has nothing to do with even the Islamic religion,
but everything to do with power and the power they're
using the religion to exert power over their people and
over the whole region.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Well, you're absolutely right. You know, the Iraniant civilization is
a rich and very progressive civilization, at least it was
until such time as the Mullahs came to power. And
since that period, the United States has been kind of
oscillating between this false binary, false choice between either war
(03:54):
on the one hand, or impeasement of a rogue regime
on the other. But you know, John, this is a
deeply flawed and from my perspective, dangerously false binary. Framing
the Iran debate as a choice between war and appeasement
ignores the most promising path forward, and that is supporting
(04:18):
the Iranian people in their struggles for freedom. You know,
for too long, as I said, Western policy has oscillated
between failed diplomacy, and there are so many illustrations of
that diplomacy that legitimizes a brutal regime and then military
threats that really serve to rally hardliners in Tehran. But
(04:43):
there is John, a third path, an approach rooted in
principal strategy, and that is to stand with Iran's pro
democracy opposition. There are Iranians inside a on who are
risking their lives to challenge the regime from within. They're organizing,
(05:07):
they're mobilizing, They're calling for a secular, democratic, non nuclear republic.
They don't want foreign military intervention, but they also reject
the idea that the only alternative is giving concessions to
the iatolas. And so this brings me to kind of
(05:29):
a fundamental policy prescription that I think US officials should
look at closely. We don't need boots on the ground.
What we need is political recognition of these individuals and
their right to self determination. We need international amplification of
(05:50):
their message. We need sanctions that target this brutal regime,
not the people, and we need accountability for human rights abuses.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
This is Alabama's Morning News. I'm John Mounts filling in
for JT. Sasha. Let's talk about the situation in Iran
in terms of what we as Americans can do, specifically,
what Donald Trump and the Trump administration can do to
help the Iranian people break free of the control of
the Iatola without putting the United States in a situation
(06:24):
where we once again a drug into another war on
another continent.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Well, John, you know, the Iatolas want you to believe
and want Americans to believe that the theocracy in Iran
is a permanent fixture of the Middle East landscape. They
want you to believe that it's either them or perpetual chaos.
But the fact of the matter is that's a lie.
(06:48):
There is a viable alternative. There is potential for a
free Iran led by its own people, and it's time
that the West stopped legitimizing tyrants and started empowering those
fighting for democracy. And so you know, I would urge
US officials to focus on the solution. And there is
(07:09):
one opposition movement inside Iran that stands above all the rest,
and that's the National Council of Resistance of Iran.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
And how would we go about helping them, because we
don't just want to throw money at the problem number
one and number two, we don't want to be seen
as intervening that might might cause things to escalate in
the region.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
No, you're right, and the National Council of Resistance of Iran,
it's never asked for money, They've never asked for boots
on the ground. They simply want the self determination of
the Iranian people to be respected. The NCRI is a
broad based coalition formed in nineteen eighty one that operates
(07:53):
as a sort of parliament and exile. The MEK is
their leading organization and they have a vest an intricate
domestic network of support inside Iran. Their commitment is to
secularism and democracy and human rights and the rule of law,
(08:13):
all principles that the US and the West can appreciate.
And this makes them from my perspective, the only serious
alternative to the Iatolas. Not to be clear, you know, John,
there are also opposition movements that want to replace the
(08:35):
Mullahs with a monarchy, but you know this is absurd.
Iranians want democracy.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
That does bring up a really good point because we
have had a history in America of getting involved in
these sort of situations like what happened in Egypt a
while back, where we toppled or Libya, any of these
countries where we topple a bad what we deem to
be a bad regime and then we kind of replace
it with nothing, and then an even worse guy gets
in and things actually get out of control. I think
(09:04):
that's what we saw in Afghanistan, and that's why we
have to be careful because we might create a void
in the region and then we're really in trouble.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
No, you're absolutely right. You know, the installation of the monarchists,
the so called Shaw's men, who have virtually no popular
support in the country, would be a catastrophe for a
free Iran. You know, a study undertaken by my colleagues
at the Around Policy Committee a number of years ago
found that the NCRI and it's leading constituent group. The
(09:36):
MEK received more than three hundred and fifty percent more
attention by the regime than all other opposition organizations combined.
And this is because they ultimately represent the greatest internal
threat to the ruling theocracy. They're organized, they're ideologically coherent,
(10:00):
they're capable of mobilizing mass resistance, and they're the only
opposition movement with resistance units capable of sharing intelligence but
also mobilizing anti regime sentiment on the ground. And this
is precisely why Tehran has spent decades trying to demonize
(10:21):
and infiltrate and destroy them. And John they also have
a ten point plan to govern Iran as a democratic, secular,
and non nuclear republic based on separation of religion and state.
It really is they are the antidote to everything the
regime represents.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And doctor Gan I like that idea because we have
really only one ally in the region over there, and
it's basically Israel. That's it. I would love to see
us have a second stabilizing ally in that region to
sort of kind of keep things in check. I believe
the Iranian people are capable of governing themselves and actually
doing it in a way that would lead to stability
(11:04):
in the region and ultimately make us make things safer,
stabilize the price of oil. There's so many things, good
things that could come of it, doctor Shean, We're about
out of time, but for more information on any of
the things we talked about today, is there a place
people can go to find information, real information about the
things we talked about?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, you can follow me on my ex account at
proft Shean, and you can also look me up online.
I do a lot of writing about us around policy,
and I speak quite a bit about this secular democratic
alternative that exists in Iran that I believe would help
to isolate to extremist actors, empowered democratic forces, and create
(11:47):
a space for peaceful development of a new and promising republic.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Doctor Ivan Sasha Sheen, thank you so much for joining
us this morning on Alabama's Morning News.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
It's a pleasure, John, thank you for having me.
Welcome back to Alabama's Morning News. My name is John Mounts,
filling in for JT. And we now turn our attention
once again to Iran, as President Trump is denying that
he's working on an Iran Israeli ceasefire, saying he wants
real end to the conflict. Yesterday, while on Air Force One,
Donald Trump spoke to reporters about the US response should
Iran decide to retally, He'll come.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Down so hard?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Are they doing anything?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
People welcome down so hard that the loves her off
so beautifully?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Now they.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
They I think they know that to Dutch aller dreams.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
But what should America want and why should we care?
Joining me now is doctor Ivan Sasha. She and he
is the Associate dean of the College of Public Affairs
at the University of Baltimore and a full professor with tenure. Sasha,
Welcome to Alabama's Morning News.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
John. It's great to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I want to start off with how do we get here?
It seems like for the last fifty years the United
States has been involved in Iranian affairs. Why is that?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Well, John, it's a great question. Man. It's important that
we take a step back from the current existential crisis
facing the regime. You're correct that the violence that's intensified
over the past few days is actually part of a
much broader pattern of instability that originates with the Iranian
regime itself, and what's triggered this latest round of escalation
(01:23):
is not new aggression, but the continuation of a four
decade long strategy by the clerical regime to both export
chaos but also suppress dissent at home. You know, John,
we could talk at length about the drivers of the
current crisis. We could continue to talk about Israel's strikes
(01:46):
on Iranian command and control centers, and we could talk
for days about the vulnerabilities of the Iranian regime. But
at some point we and I think individuals around the world,
will need to turn their attention to the most critical
component of creating lasting change in Iran, and that is
(02:11):
the Iranian people. You know, one of the things that
I've been saying over the past forty eight hours is
that the toppling of the theocracy in Iran is ultimately
their project. It cannot be a Western endeavor regime change
that's imposed that the tip of a spear is very
(02:33):
often not lasting and not perceived as credible, and I've
believe that US authorities at this juncture would be wise
to support the Iranian people's right to self determination and
help them throw off the chains of their pressors.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
If you look at years gone by, I'm talking like
fifty years ago, pictures taken of the Iranian people back
in the nineteen seventies, and you see women studying at
the universities, and the women are dressed like women here
in the United States. Here they're wearing shorts and crop
tops and that sort of thing. And now everyone's in
the full garb. How much things have changed in the country.
(03:15):
And I guess it's because of the theocracy. And I
think it has nothing to do with even the Islamic religion,
but everything to do with power and the power they're
using the religion to exert power over their people and
over the whole region.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Well, you're absolutely right. You know, the Iraniant civilization is
a rich and very progressive civilization, at least it was
until such time as the Mullahs came to power. And
since that period, the United States has been kind of
oscillating between this false binary, false choice between either war
(03:54):
on the one hand, or impeasement of a rogue regime
on the other. But you know, John, this is a
deeply flawed and from my perspective, dangerously false binary. Framing
the Iran debate as a choice between war and appeasement
ignores the most promising path forward, and that is supporting
(04:18):
the Iranian people in their struggles for freedom. You know,
for too long, as I said, Western policy has oscillated
between failed diplomacy, and there are so many illustrations of
that diplomacy that legitimizes a brutal regime and then military
threats that really serve to rally hardliners in Tehran. But
(04:43):
there is John, a third path, an approach rooted in
principal strategy, and that is to stand with Iran's pro
democracy opposition. There are Iranians inside a on who are
risking their lives to challenge the regime from within. They're organizing,
(05:07):
they're mobilizing, They're calling for a secular, democratic, non nuclear republic.
They don't want foreign military intervention, but they also reject
the idea that the only alternative is giving concessions to
the iatolas. And so this brings me to kind of
(05:29):
a fundamental policy prescription that I think US officials should
look at closely. We don't need boots on the ground.
What we need is political recognition of these individuals and
their right to self determination. We need international amplification of
(05:50):
their message. We need sanctions that target this brutal regime,
not the people, and we need accountability for human rights abuses.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
This is Alabama's Morning News. I'm John Mounts filling in
for JT. Sasha. Let's talk about the situation in Iran
in terms of what we as Americans can do, specifically,
what Donald Trump and the Trump administration can do to
help the Iranian people break free of the control of
the Iatola without putting the United States in a situation
(06:24):
where we once again a drug into another war on
another continent.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Well, John, you know, the Iatolas want you to believe
and want Americans to believe that the theocracy in Iran
is a permanent fixture of the Middle East landscape. They
want you to believe that it's either them or perpetual chaos.
But the fact of the matter is that's a lie.
(06:48):
There is a viable alternative. There is potential for a
free Iran led by its own people, and it's time
that the West stopped legitimizing tyrants and started empowering those
fighting for democracy. And so you know, I would urge
US officials to focus on the solution. And there is
(07:09):
one opposition movement inside Iran that stands above all the rest,
and that's the National Council of Resistance of Iran.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
And how would we go about helping them, because we
don't just want to throw money at the problem number
one and number two, we don't want to be seen
as intervening that might might cause things to escalate in
the region.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
No, you're right, and the National Council of Resistance of Iran,
it's never asked for money, They've never asked for boots
on the ground. They simply want the self determination of
the Iranian people to be respected. The NCRI is a
broad based coalition formed in nineteen eighty one that operates
(07:53):
as a sort of parliament and exile. The MEK is
their leading organization and they have a vest an intricate
domestic network of support inside Iran. Their commitment is to
secularism and democracy and human rights and the rule of law,
(08:13):
all principles that the US and the West can appreciate.
And this makes them from my perspective, the only serious
alternative to the Iatolas. Not to be clear, you know, John,
there are also opposition movements that want to replace the
(08:35):
Mullahs with a monarchy, but you know this is absurd.
Iranians want democracy.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
That does bring up a really good point because we
have had a history in America of getting involved in
these sort of situations like what happened in Egypt a
while back, where we toppled or Libya, any of these
countries where we topple a bad what we deem to
be a bad regime and then we kind of replace
it with nothing, and then an even worse guy gets
in and things actually get out of control. I think
(09:04):
that's what we saw in Afghanistan, and that's why we
have to be careful because we might create a void
in the region and then we're really in trouble.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
No, you're absolutely right. You know, the installation of the monarchists,
the so called Shaw's men, who have virtually no popular
support in the country, would be a catastrophe for a
free Iran. You know, a study undertaken by my colleagues
at the Around Policy Committee a number of years ago
found that the NCRI and it's leading constituent group. The
(09:36):
MEK received more than three hundred and fifty percent more
attention by the regime than all other opposition organizations combined.
And this is because they ultimately represent the greatest internal
threat to the ruling theocracy. They're organized, they're ideologically coherent,
(10:00):
they're capable of mobilizing mass resistance, and they're the only
opposition movement with resistance units capable of sharing intelligence but
also mobilizing anti regime sentiment on the ground. And this
is precisely why Tehran has spent decades trying to demonize
(10:21):
and infiltrate and destroy them. And John they also have
a ten point plan to govern Iran as a democratic, secular,
and non nuclear republic based on separation of religion and state.
It really is they are the antidote to everything the
regime represents.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And doctor Gan I like that idea because we have
really only one ally in the region over there, and
it's basically Israel. That's it. I would love to see
us have a second stabilizing ally in that region to
sort of kind of keep things in check. I believe
the Iranian people are capable of governing themselves and actually
doing it in a way that would lead to stability
(11:04):
in the region and ultimately make us make things safer,
stabilize the price of oil. There's so many things, good
things that could come of it, doctor Shean, We're about
out of time, but for more information on any of
the things we talked about today, is there a place
people can go to find information, real information about the
things we talked about?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, you can follow me on my ex account at
proft Shean, and you can also look me up online.
I do a lot of writing about us around policy,
and I speak quite a bit about this secular democratic
alternative that exists in Iran that I believe would help
to isolate to extremist actors, empowered democratic forces, and create
(11:47):
a space for peaceful development of a new and promising republic.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Doctor Ivan Sasha Sheen, thank you so much for joining
us this morning on Alabama's Morning News.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
It's a pleasure, John, thank you for having me.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.