December 11, 2025 • 29 mins
Glenn Lutjens, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist has solutions for estranged families that are facing difficulties over the holidays. Then Elanie Stolze, Associate Vice President of Development and community relations with the American Theatre Guild joins us to talk about their Staging for the Future Program and how much good it as done in Alabama.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
As we approach the holiday season and watch those warm,
fuzzy Hallmark movies, for many, there's kind of an empty
feeling inside, and that's because a lot of families there's
fractures between parents and children. Hello, I'm John Mounts and
this is Viewpoint Alabama on the Alabama Radio Network, and
this week I'm joined by licensed marriage and family therapists
Glenn Legends. He is a licensed marriage and family therapist
(00:22):
who's been with Focus on the Family Counseling for more
than thirty years. Glenn, Welcome to our program.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
John, Thank you so good to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Our society is experiencing what some would call an epidemic
of children cutting off contact with their parents, and studies
show that more than a quarter of young adults are
a strange from their parents. Glenn, how can children re
establish that relationship with their parents? Or maybe first we
should start with how can parents address when the children
shut them out?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I think the first point is to be aware of
what our heart is telling us, the emotions that we're feeling,
to recognize the herd and the heartache. When we've raised
a child, we've spent years building into their lives, encouraging them, physically, emotionally, spiritually,
and now there's maybe this wall that has been erected,
(01:09):
a relationship that has been severed. So just to be
honest with the fact that this really hurts and give
ourselves the chance to grieve, I think is really a
first important step, Glenn.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
In many cases, this estrangement comes from a situation where
there was one huge incident, or maybe there was multiple
incidents over months or years, where the child began to
feel they no longer have that connection to their parent,
and it just built upon itself. It got worse and worse,
and finally the child decided to cut off contact. And
(01:44):
that event is sitting there. How do you go ahead
and put the try to put the toothpaste back in
the tube, or maybe you forget it, clean up the toothpaste,
throw out the toothpaste, and try and work forward. What's
the best strategy, Try and fix it, to try and
go back and solve what needed to be solved in
the past, or to just go ahead and move forward
from there.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Right right? I think it is important to explore maybe
the reasons, and it can vary. Sometimes it may be
a person going to college and being told that you know, hey,
if you you know, if your parents have made you
go to church, you know they're being controlling, they're being manipulative,
and so you need to stand up for yourself and
(02:25):
you know, just kind of disavow any type of spiritual background.
I mean, it can be as as that can be
the type of situation that comes up. It can be
that there may be was a particular situation or scenario.
Maybe it was where a child felt maybe not always
accurately so, but a child may have felt that there
(02:46):
was favoritism in the family. Maybe they felt that a
parent dealt with a situation in a harsh fashion. I mean,
it's put it this way. As parents, we all are
going to make mistakes. There is no perfect parent other
than the Lord Him, and so we all are going
to we're going to come up short, and so being
willing to explore, can you help me better understand what
(03:10):
your concerns are. I want to be able to look
at them. I want an honest expression of my heart.
If there's some things that I did that we're wrong,
that were really hurtful to you. So I think as parents,
really having that posture of I want to be able
to address that. But it also becomes important for it
not to be one where we enter into kind of
(03:33):
either a begging and pleading, which can sometimes happen where
you know, hey, I just I just have to have
this relationship with you, and and so you know, we
need to work this out. Because the more we do that,
the more in one sense, it gives the power to
the child, to the adult child. And so we can
communicate our desire for a good, meaningful relationship. But when
(03:55):
we get into the begging and pleading, it actually ends
up discouraging or or keeping the relationship we would like
to happen from happening.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
And you make a good point, Glenn, because I think
it is subjective. And while you, as a parent look
at it and say I think I did everything right,
they and you might truly believe that their perception from
the child's standpoint might be very different, like you said,
because they've gone off to college. And part of that
rebellious thing because when you it is a natural part
of growing up as you want to try and build
(04:27):
some separation, some independence. But part of that is they
can begin to believe, well, I've taken my psychology class.
I'm so much more educated now that I've gone off
to college. I'm absolutely right, they're wrong that religion stuff
is old and hokey, and I don't have to go
along with that. I don't have to have a relationship
with my parents anymore because they have nothing to offer
to me. And in the end, both parties are thinking, well, I,
(04:49):
as a parent, I'm right. They don't know what they're
talking about. They just went off to college and learned
a bunch of nonsense that children are thinking. Those parents
don't know what they're talking about. They haven't been to
college in thirty years. How do you deal with when
both parties think I right, they're wrong.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I think a key to that is just being able
to hear their emotion, hear their heart without judging it. Now,
I'm certainly not saying that the way that the adult
child may be approaching it is necessarily accurate. It may
it may be distorted, it may be impacted by kind
of a worldview that they've now become accustomed to. But
(05:21):
to be able to hear it, I think one of
the greatest things that we can do. It's the easiest
thing to describe, it's the hardest thing to do, and
that is just listen for the emotion, Listen for the emotion,
listen for the thought, and just be a mirror reflect
it back. You may it doesn't mean you agree with
what they're thinking. It doesn't mean you agree with what
(05:42):
they're saying, but you're just simply being a mirror. If
I'm understanding correctly, you felt that there were a lot
of areas where we control choices that you made and
that was really frustrating for you. And so again we
may see it from a different vantage point, but if
we listen and validate that, and then I encourage people
to leave a little bit of a gap to say
(06:04):
thank you for sharing your heart with me. I want
to think about that a bit and then maybe take
some time think about it, pray about it, maybe come
back to them and say, you know, I hope you
felt heard and understood. I have a little bit different
take on it, and I'm wondering if you would be
open to hearing my heart on it now. Generally speaking,
(06:24):
I think curiosity, if nothing else, will encourage them to
be willing to hear where you know we're coming from.
But I think that that approach of really trying to
hear and understand is going to be very valid Unfortunately,
sometimes as parents we can get into the guilt trip.
I remember a bumper sticker that I saw one time
(06:46):
that said, you know, my mother is the travel agent
on all of my guilt trips. And instead of you know,
approaching it from the vantage point of, you know, how
could you cut us off after all that we've done
for you, We've paid for your college. I mean things
like that, And again it may be very accurate and true,
but it's usually going to create more of a wall.
(07:06):
It's not going to create that ability to hear and
understand and really see if there can be some movement
in the relationship towards a better understanding and a closer relationship.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
This is a viewpoint Alabama on the Alabama Radio Network.
I'm speaking with Focus on the Families Glenn Legends, and
we're talking about what happens when parents and children become
a strange, especially around the holidays. Glenn, you mentioned money.
How often do you find the situation where money is
the root of the problem. In other words, the child
feels that I should have been better supported financially by
(07:39):
the parent, The parent didn't give me enough so that
I was able to get off on a good foot.
As I moved out of the house, moved into college,
whatever it was, or maybe it's the other way around,
and the parent used money as a way to manipulate
the child. The child now realizes this and is feeling
that manipulation and now has grievances because of it.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, no, I think it can be a fairly common situation, John, Now, money,
money tends to have a lot of emotion to it.
I mean, even in a situation where let's say there's
been the death of a spouse and now or divorce
that takes place that the parent has had and now
there's a new person in their life, maybe somebody that
(08:19):
they're dating or somebody that they marry, and now, okay,
well I thought we were going to get this inheritance
and now we're not. I mean, that can that can
factor in sometimes unfortunately. But really the key becomes to
to hear each other's hearts and to see if we
can model that. Now, if we've been doing that throughout
(08:39):
our parenting years, hopefully that will come a lot easier.
If maybe we haven't, maybe we've been more direct, we've
not maybe been all that interested in what our sons
or daughters are feeling it's going to be a little
bit tougher, but I think you know by by modeling
it it can it can help create a greater openness
and a greater desire, hopefully for each person to really
(09:04):
move forward in the relationship in a constructive way. There's
what I refer to as the principle of the lowest
common denominator. Remember back in grammar school, high school, Yeah,
trying to find that lowest common denominator in the fraction.
But in relationships that lowest common denominator is important as well.
(09:24):
So let's say on the scale of zero to ten,
zero being no connection whatsoever, ten being we're best buddies,
we're connected at the hip. Let's say that one person
wants the relationship to be a four and the other
person wants the relationship to be an eight. You can't
really say, well, i'll tell you what, let's meet at six.
(09:46):
It really has to be where the person with the
lowest level of commitment to the relationship is at. And
that can be frustrating for the person who has the
higher interest in connection. But the person with the lowest
level is really the one who has the ability to
say no, this is real. Where I want the relationship.
Now the other person may say I'm not okay with that.
(10:08):
Now they may become the lowest common denominator. But I
think it's important to recognize that our children, they do
have choices. It may not always be in line with
what we would like them to do or even what
may be biblically sound, because it could be that they're
not showing honor to a parent. I'm not talking about
obeying the parent, you know, throughout the adult years, but
I'm talking about an honor, a sense of I care
(10:31):
about you, I appreciate what you've done in my life,
and I want to honor you with my thoughts, my words,
my actions.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Glenn, you mentioned you touched on the concept of the
blended family because a lot of families in this day
and age, they've been divided by divorce. A lot of
times the child will necessarily both parents kind of they
compete for the child's affection, but invariably the child tends
to latch onto one hold a grudge against the other.
(11:00):
How do you establish that relationship if you're the say,
the parent that the child feels aggrieved against, and how
do you encourage if you're the parent and maybe you're
a child has a good relationship with you, you want
to encourage them to have a good relationship with their
with their other, with their parent, your other parent, even
if maybe you don't anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, And that's where there'll still likely
be times where if people have divorced, that they'll still
need to interact with each other. It may be a wedding,
it may be a birthday celebration for the child. How
how can I do that in as constructive a way
as possible so that the child sees me trying to
(11:42):
show kindness and love to my expects and if they
can see that, that goes a long way. I think
just verbally in speaking with the adult child is to say,
I want you to have as good a relationship as
you can with both, with both parents. I'm not in
this to try to, you know, persuade you I was right,
(12:02):
you know your mom or your dad was wrong. I
want you to have as good a relationship as possible,
And anything I can do to encourage that is really
where I want to be coming from.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
And what if you're on the other side of that,
where you're, like I says, a blended family and maybe
mom went on and married. There's a new I guess
you would call stepfather involved. If you're the stepfather, what
is your role in that situation? Because the child might
very well feel some hostility towards you, but you still
have to function together as a family unit when that
(12:33):
side of the family is together. How do you navigate that?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Sometimes it'll depend upon Okay, how old is it the
child when parents were no longer together. Has there been
a gap of you know, ten twelve years in between,
or is it you know, six months after mom and
dad are no longer together. Now there's a stepfather or
stepmother in the situation, so that can come into play.
I'd say probably a key component there is to really
(13:00):
try to develop a friendship before we try to come
in with some parental authority when it's a person who
is in a step parent role, because a lot of
times the child has never really fully worked through why
mom and dad are not together and now here's this
other person who's you know, says hey, I'm the head
of the home, and so they try to exert their
(13:22):
authority and that usually doesn't work well. If they can
really try to develop and understanding again using the tools
of active listening and reflecting back you know what the
child is expressing, and even saying to the child. I
understand this is probably a pretty hard thing for you.
What's hardest about it? What are some of the things
(13:43):
that are most difficult for you in this new family arrangement.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Well, and the other day I was reaching into my
cabinet looking for something, and I noticed in the very
back a bottle of maple syrup had fallen over and
it had leaked, and it had gotten all over everything
in the back of the cabinet. And wasn't something that
happened now. It was something that probably happened months ago,
maybe a year ago, I don't know, But that syrup
had completely hardened and set, and not only was the
(14:09):
syrup a loss, but all the stuff in the back
of the cabinet. Probably you don't want to eat that
old food anyway, But I had to throw all of
it out. And I was thinking about the analogy of
when things are said and sometimes there's an incident, a
one off incident. But it was so awful, and then
we didn't do anything about it. We just walked away
and we let it sit there, and it hardened over
the weeks in the months, and it made it that
(14:30):
much more difficult to clean up. Glenn, how do we
address when something happens during the holidays and it's it's
one of those situations you just want to run away
from it and just pretend like it never happened, But
it's gonna sit it's gonna get worse. Do you recommend
that we clean up the syrup the moment it leaks
out of the thing, or do we need to step
back and kind of let cooler heads prevail. What's the
(14:51):
best way to approach one of those situations.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I think that first step is, Okay, what's going on
in my heart? What am I feeling? You know, our
feelings again are not you know, are not going to
always reflect what truth is, but they are real we
are feeling them. Secondly is to explore is there anything
I need to take ownership up? You know, was my
Maybe what I said was good, but maybe my attitude
(15:13):
or the words that I used were not the best
way to express that. So taking ownership if there is
anything that I need to do. I think the Biblical
principle of dealing with things quickly. Scripture says, you know,
be angry, but don't let the sun go down on
your anger. Doesn't mean that you have more time in
the winter to deal with things, because in the summer,
(15:37):
you know, the sun is up longer. But it does
mean deal with things on a quicker basis, and you know,
don't let it fester because the longer it festers, the
more that it's likely to you know, grow in place,
and really it's going to be more challenging, more difficult.
So i'd say, you know, if it's that opportunity to
(15:58):
even write a letter, if it's opportunity to say, hey,
I'd love to talk with you, sometimes what can be
helpful is doing that in a public place if it's possible,
because people might be less inclined to care about how
they're coming across if they're sitting in a kitchen table,
if we're you know, sitting at you know, Chili's or
(16:19):
wherever it might be, we're probably going to be a
little bit more careful how we communicate, our tone, our
volume is likely to be more subdued, which I think
in many ways can be helpful. So sometimes by addressing
those areas kind of say hey, I'd love to have
lunch lunch with you, you know, would you be open.
Is there some time this week that might work for you?
And that way you can bring it up in a
(16:40):
way that you have some kind of guidelines externally for
guardrails that will probably keep the conversation in a more constructive,
in a more gentle way.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
And Glenn, I don't want to make this all about
that we always must unify. There are such things as
toxic relationships and sometimes the best thing is for there
to be a separation. How do you determine when it's
a situation of it's not going to work and there's
a reason why it's not going to work and we
actually need the separation because that can happen, can't it?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
It sure can. There are times where we need to
be able to say no. I usually encourage people to
have what I refer to as a bridge. So what
bridge means I want the relationship, But there may be
something that needs to happen between now and when. Hopefully
that that bridge we're able to cross that together. And
so it may be that there needs to be some steps,
(17:35):
maybe for a person to talk to a counselor or
a pastor first. But where there are some steps that
need to occur, pretty rarely is it one where it's
just Okay, this is a relationship. I'm ending it. There's
no potential for any restoration whatsoever. I'd say I encourage
(17:56):
people towards looking Are there some middle ground components? You
know I was talking before about you know, where maybe
a person wants the eight relationship, you know, the other
person wants a four, or let's say a person says,
you know, zero is where it needs to be. Is
it possible for there to be a two or a
three or four something that allows there to be some connection,
but it protects it safeguards our hearts so that that
(18:20):
toxic component of the relationship is not impacting us in
powerful ways. But I would say just being aware of
the fact that you know, what impact does it have
upon me? Is there any part here that I'm playing
in this? Am I maybe stirring the pot in some ways?
If I am, I need to address that. But if
(18:42):
there's someone who really is not willing to have a
relationship or is just using the relationship in a manipulative way,
I may need to set some stronger boundaries and hopefully
there will be a change of heart. We can always
pray for another individual that they do have a chain
of heart that they're willing to address those areas in
their lives that need healing. But that softer heart and
(19:06):
spirit I think is really a key component.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Glenn, you mentioned the need for in a lot of
cases mediation, somebody a disinterested third party to kind of
help lead the relationship in a more productive and a
more healthy way. What do you look for in a
counselor be it a like I said another maybe you
get a person who's not member of the family. Maybe
you get somebody who's actually a pastoral staff at your church.
(19:31):
What do you look for in that person?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
I think you wanted to be a person where both
individuals or if there's several individ people that are going
to be meeting with them, that they all respect. You know,
if one persons, if it's a if it's a person
who's just tied into one of the individuals, it can
feel like you know they're on your side. So you
want it to be somebody who has that capacity to
(19:56):
really hear and understand and really does desire to see
the potential for healing in that relationship.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Glenn, we've covered a lot of ground today. Is there
a place focus on the family has where families can
go and find information about any of the things you
talked about, maybe more helpful hints as we approach the holidays.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Two things. One is they can give us a call
and speak with one of our counselors or pastoral counselors.
They can call one eight hundred A family eight hundred,
the letter A and then family. Or they can go
to our website www. Dot Focus on the Family dot com.
They can click on the parenting tab or whatever other
(20:35):
tab might be of help. There's a wealth of resources
available through that.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Glenn Lechend's a licensed marriage and family therapist with Focus
on the Family. Glenn, thank you so much for joining
us today and covering all of this ground. I hope
it's been very helpful for our listeners, and I hope
it's helpful for your program for us to get this
information out.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
John, great to be with you. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
In this day of AI and computers, there will always
be a place for the arts and in our world.
These wonderful expressions of our humanity are seen in paintings
and music and of course the theater. This is John
Mounts and now on Viewpoint, Alabama. I'm joined by Elaine Stols.
She is the associate vice president of Development and Community
Relations with the American Theater Guild. Elaine, Welcome to Viewpoint.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Oh, thank you, John, Good morning. Well, we're delighted to
talk about staging in the future, but let me give
you some background about American Theater Guilt. Absolutely, we are
the not for profit touring Broadway presenter of the Broadway
shows at the BJCC. Our mission is really simple. It's
really an opportunity that we try to create for students
(21:38):
and or served individuals to experience the magic of live theater.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
And when you say for underserved individuals, you're talking about
young people from the community who maybe otherwise don't have
exposure to these sort of things. And by exposure do
you mean participation or viewing or both both.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Our program is designed for Title one SKI students as
well as organizations that maybe fifty percent of their population
is poverty stricken, or they may have special needs. These
are individuals that may not have the means to go
(22:17):
to a Broadway show. We just really truly believe that
exposure to the arts is important. You know, it has
a way to move audiences, It fosters creativity, it inspires
kind of that next generation of artists, and so our
Stage in the Future program we provide that exposure through
(22:42):
funded tickets to our Broadway shows. Many of these kids
have never seen a Broadway show at all, and we're
hoping that these moments kind of nurture a lifelong love
and appreciation for the arts.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
You mentioned that they can also participate as well, so
in other words, there are ways for people, if they're
an aspiring actor, that they might be able to get
their foot in the door, maybe get some experience or
very least some training in that field.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Yeah, Well, in our program in particular, we work with kids,
So we've reached probably four thousand students and community members
since twenty twenty three, and this is designed so that
they can see our Broadway turning shows at the BJCC.
We have educational resources on our website and then we
(23:38):
provide we host events. So one of the examples is
during Wicked, we had provided tickets to several organizations and
schools in the Birmingham area. We provided talk back and
(23:58):
the cast members that play Glinda Back and Madame Morrible
were there. These kids were able to learn more about
what their journeys were in the performing arts. And of
course see such a beautiful and amazing show.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
So and this is pretty well received by a lot
of these students. Did you have a lot of people
come up and ask really good and form questions where
they engaged in watching the performance so they could kind
of make have questions about what they saw and the
way it's done.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yes, absolutely, all of the students were blown away. They
were incredibly engaged during the whole time. We've done other
community events like to Kill a Mockingbird. We had an
opportunity to spotlight Birmingham Public Library to help raise their
(24:52):
awareness of their literacy programs. We actually hosted a library
event at the Central Life location with Mary Badham, who
plays Scout in the original film and she's also in
the Broadway touring show production and students from the Alabama
School of Fine Arts were provided an opportunity to hear
(25:15):
about her experiences and on stage and in the movie,
and they were also gifted a books. So it was
just a wonderful experience for them to be able to
learn about the stage production, what it takes to have
a career in the performing arts.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I actually had an opportunity to speak with Mary Badham
last year when they were in town, and she talked
about the interesting role that she plays because of course,
like you mentioned, she was scouted in the original movie,
but of course today she can't play a child, so
she played an older lady who I forget the character
she played but had very outdated racist views, and the
(25:58):
struggle she had in trying to portray such a almost
an evil person in this thing, but that wasn't her
and how she had to really act to be able
to bring out the evil in the character that she
was she was supposed to portray when that wasn't her
personality at all, And that's the kind of thing that
a lot of the actors deal with as they portray
(26:19):
characters on stage.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
That's correct, that's correct, And she did talk about that
that it was a difficult activity. She had to really
kind of dig in deep to bring that character out,
but she believed so much into in the story and
the storyline that and she felt like this story was
(26:43):
something that was important to tell.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Now, the reason we're talking about this today is because
last Tuesday was Giving Tuesday, and although that is coming gone,
that doesn't mean you can't still give. And this is
a very worthy thing to give to the Staging the
Future your program, explain the organization's philanthropic branch and how
what Staging the Future specifically does for your organization.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Yeah, we thank you so much. We are asking for
support for and we really rely on the generosity of
our donors. The funds that we received through Staging the
Future are used to provide subsidized and funded tickets to
the underserved community members and youth in Birmingham to be
(27:35):
able to attend these wonderful, amazing Broadway touring shows. And
then again we host a lot of different types of
events for organizations in Birmingham to either help raise awareness
for the great things that they're doing for kids and
(27:55):
underserved community members, but also to allow them to participate
in talkbacks and masterclasses.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
And the Stage in the Future. People want to find
out more information about it, there is a website they
can go to.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah, you can go to americatheaterguilt dot com Staging in
the Future and we also have available a handle on
venmo now and you can go to our handle it's
at stf dash at Guilt. Again, we'd appreciate any support
(28:29):
from the community to introduce young audiences to the arts.
Any gift large or small, weld will certainly help us
and the students of Birmingham.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
And so one more time on VEMO. That's STF dash
At Guild. That's correct to give to you guys. Well,
I want to thank you so much for joining us
explaining a little bit about what it is that you
do and how you're able to help the community, help people, because,
like I said at the outset, I think the arts
are very important, especially in this day and age where
nothing is human anymore. At least the theater is implicitly human.
(29:04):
There's humans up there on the stage doing the acting,
and we hope that continues for many, many centuries to come,
just as it started, you know, well in you know,
two thousand or more years ago.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yeah, we certainly appreciate it. We think live theater is
extremely important and introduction to the arts. So thanks so much, John,
We certainly appreciate it and for your support of the
arts as well.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Absolutelyne, thank you so much for being on the program today.
You've been listening to Viewpoint Alabama, a public affairs program
from the Alabama Radio Network. The opinions expressed on Viewpoint
Alabama are not necessarily those of the staff, management or
advertisers of this station,
As we approach the holiday season and watch those warm,
fuzzy Hallmark movies, for many, there's kind of an empty
feeling inside, and that's because a lot of families there's
fractures between parents and children. Hello, I'm John Mounts and
this is Viewpoint Alabama on the Alabama Radio Network, and
this week I'm joined by licensed marriage and family therapists
Glenn Legends. He is a licensed marriage and family therapist
(00:22):
who's been with Focus on the Family Counseling for more
than thirty years. Glenn, Welcome to our program.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
John, Thank you so good to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Our society is experiencing what some would call an epidemic
of children cutting off contact with their parents, and studies
show that more than a quarter of young adults are
a strange from their parents. Glenn, how can children re
establish that relationship with their parents? Or maybe first we
should start with how can parents address when the children
shut them out?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I think the first point is to be aware of
what our heart is telling us, the emotions that we're feeling,
to recognize the herd and the heartache. When we've raised
a child, we've spent years building into their lives, encouraging them, physically, emotionally, spiritually,
and now there's maybe this wall that has been erected,
(01:09):
a relationship that has been severed. So just to be
honest with the fact that this really hurts and give
ourselves the chance to grieve, I think is really a
first important step, Glenn.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
In many cases, this estrangement comes from a situation where
there was one huge incident, or maybe there was multiple
incidents over months or years, where the child began to
feel they no longer have that connection to their parent,
and it just built upon itself. It got worse and worse,
and finally the child decided to cut off contact. And
(01:44):
that event is sitting there. How do you go ahead
and put the try to put the toothpaste back in
the tube, or maybe you forget it, clean up the toothpaste,
throw out the toothpaste, and try and work forward. What's
the best strategy, Try and fix it, to try and
go back and solve what needed to be solved in
the past, or to just go ahead and move forward
from there.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Right right? I think it is important to explore maybe
the reasons, and it can vary. Sometimes it may be
a person going to college and being told that you know, hey,
if you you know, if your parents have made you
go to church, you know they're being controlling, they're being manipulative,
and so you need to stand up for yourself and
(02:25):
you know, just kind of disavow any type of spiritual background.
I mean, it can be as as that can be
the type of situation that comes up. It can be
that there may be was a particular situation or scenario.
Maybe it was where a child felt maybe not always
accurately so, but a child may have felt that there
(02:46):
was favoritism in the family. Maybe they felt that a
parent dealt with a situation in a harsh fashion. I mean,
it's put it this way. As parents, we all are
going to make mistakes. There is no perfect parent other
than the Lord Him, and so we all are going
to we're going to come up short, and so being
willing to explore, can you help me better understand what
(03:10):
your concerns are. I want to be able to look
at them. I want an honest expression of my heart.
If there's some things that I did that we're wrong,
that were really hurtful to you. So I think as parents,
really having that posture of I want to be able
to address that. But it also becomes important for it
not to be one where we enter into kind of
(03:33):
either a begging and pleading, which can sometimes happen where
you know, hey, I just I just have to have
this relationship with you, and and so you know, we
need to work this out. Because the more we do that,
the more in one sense, it gives the power to
the child, to the adult child. And so we can
communicate our desire for a good, meaningful relationship. But when
(03:55):
we get into the begging and pleading, it actually ends
up discouraging or or keeping the relationship we would like
to happen from happening.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
And you make a good point, Glenn, because I think
it is subjective. And while you, as a parent look
at it and say I think I did everything right,
they and you might truly believe that their perception from
the child's standpoint might be very different, like you said,
because they've gone off to college. And part of that
rebellious thing because when you it is a natural part
of growing up as you want to try and build
(04:27):
some separation, some independence. But part of that is they
can begin to believe, well, I've taken my psychology class.
I'm so much more educated now that I've gone off
to college. I'm absolutely right, they're wrong that religion stuff
is old and hokey, and I don't have to go
along with that. I don't have to have a relationship
with my parents anymore because they have nothing to offer
to me. And in the end, both parties are thinking, well, I,
(04:49):
as a parent, I'm right. They don't know what they're
talking about. They just went off to college and learned
a bunch of nonsense that children are thinking. Those parents
don't know what they're talking about. They haven't been to
college in thirty years. How do you deal with when
both parties think I right, they're wrong.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I think a key to that is just being able
to hear their emotion, hear their heart without judging it. Now,
I'm certainly not saying that the way that the adult
child may be approaching it is necessarily accurate. It may
it may be distorted, it may be impacted by kind
of a worldview that they've now become accustomed to. But
(05:21):
to be able to hear it, I think one of
the greatest things that we can do. It's the easiest
thing to describe, it's the hardest thing to do, and
that is just listen for the emotion, Listen for the emotion,
listen for the thought, and just be a mirror reflect
it back. You may it doesn't mean you agree with
what they're thinking. It doesn't mean you agree with what
(05:42):
they're saying, but you're just simply being a mirror. If
I'm understanding correctly, you felt that there were a lot
of areas where we control choices that you made and
that was really frustrating for you. And so again we
may see it from a different vantage point, but if
we listen and validate that, and then I encourage people
to leave a little bit of a gap to say
(06:04):
thank you for sharing your heart with me. I want
to think about that a bit and then maybe take
some time think about it, pray about it, maybe come
back to them and say, you know, I hope you
felt heard and understood. I have a little bit different
take on it, and I'm wondering if you would be
open to hearing my heart on it now. Generally speaking,
(06:24):
I think curiosity, if nothing else, will encourage them to
be willing to hear where you know we're coming from.
But I think that that approach of really trying to
hear and understand is going to be very valid Unfortunately,
sometimes as parents we can get into the guilt trip.
I remember a bumper sticker that I saw one time
(06:46):
that said, you know, my mother is the travel agent
on all of my guilt trips. And instead of you know,
approaching it from the vantage point of, you know, how
could you cut us off after all that we've done
for you, We've paid for your college. I mean things
like that, And again it may be very accurate and true,
but it's usually going to create more of a wall.
(07:06):
It's not going to create that ability to hear and
understand and really see if there can be some movement
in the relationship towards a better understanding and a closer relationship.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
This is a viewpoint Alabama on the Alabama Radio Network.
I'm speaking with Focus on the Families Glenn Legends, and
we're talking about what happens when parents and children become
a strange, especially around the holidays. Glenn, you mentioned money.
How often do you find the situation where money is
the root of the problem. In other words, the child
feels that I should have been better supported financially by
(07:39):
the parent, The parent didn't give me enough so that
I was able to get off on a good foot.
As I moved out of the house, moved into college,
whatever it was, or maybe it's the other way around,
and the parent used money as a way to manipulate
the child. The child now realizes this and is feeling
that manipulation and now has grievances because of it.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, no, I think it can be a fairly common situation, John, Now, money,
money tends to have a lot of emotion to it.
I mean, even in a situation where let's say there's
been the death of a spouse and now or divorce
that takes place that the parent has had and now
there's a new person in their life, maybe somebody that
(08:19):
they're dating or somebody that they marry, and now, okay,
well I thought we were going to get this inheritance
and now we're not. I mean, that can that can
factor in sometimes unfortunately. But really the key becomes to
to hear each other's hearts and to see if we
can model that. Now, if we've been doing that throughout
(08:39):
our parenting years, hopefully that will come a lot easier.
If maybe we haven't, maybe we've been more direct, we've
not maybe been all that interested in what our sons
or daughters are feeling it's going to be a little
bit tougher, but I think you know by by modeling
it it can it can help create a greater openness
and a greater desire, hopefully for each person to really
(09:04):
move forward in the relationship in a constructive way. There's
what I refer to as the principle of the lowest
common denominator. Remember back in grammar school, high school, Yeah,
trying to find that lowest common denominator in the fraction.
But in relationships that lowest common denominator is important as well.
(09:24):
So let's say on the scale of zero to ten,
zero being no connection whatsoever, ten being we're best buddies,
we're connected at the hip. Let's say that one person
wants the relationship to be a four and the other
person wants the relationship to be an eight. You can't
really say, well, i'll tell you what, let's meet at six.
(09:46):
It really has to be where the person with the
lowest level of commitment to the relationship is at. And
that can be frustrating for the person who has the
higher interest in connection. But the person with the lowest
level is really the one who has the ability to
say no, this is real. Where I want the relationship.
Now the other person may say I'm not okay with that.
(10:08):
Now they may become the lowest common denominator. But I
think it's important to recognize that our children, they do
have choices. It may not always be in line with
what we would like them to do or even what
may be biblically sound, because it could be that they're
not showing honor to a parent. I'm not talking about
obeying the parent, you know, throughout the adult years, but
I'm talking about an honor, a sense of I care
(10:31):
about you, I appreciate what you've done in my life,
and I want to honor you with my thoughts, my words,
my actions.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Glenn, you mentioned you touched on the concept of the
blended family because a lot of families in this day
and age, they've been divided by divorce. A lot of
times the child will necessarily both parents kind of they
compete for the child's affection, but invariably the child tends
to latch onto one hold a grudge against the other.
(11:00):
How do you establish that relationship if you're the say,
the parent that the child feels aggrieved against, and how
do you encourage if you're the parent and maybe you're
a child has a good relationship with you, you want
to encourage them to have a good relationship with their
with their other, with their parent, your other parent, even
if maybe you don't anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, And that's where there'll still likely
be times where if people have divorced, that they'll still
need to interact with each other. It may be a wedding,
it may be a birthday celebration for the child. How
how can I do that in as constructive a way
as possible so that the child sees me trying to
(11:42):
show kindness and love to my expects and if they
can see that, that goes a long way. I think
just verbally in speaking with the adult child is to say,
I want you to have as good a relationship as
you can with both, with both parents. I'm not in
this to try to, you know, persuade you I was right,
(12:02):
you know your mom or your dad was wrong. I
want you to have as good a relationship as possible,
And anything I can do to encourage that is really
where I want to be coming from.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
And what if you're on the other side of that,
where you're, like I says, a blended family and maybe
mom went on and married. There's a new I guess
you would call stepfather involved. If you're the stepfather, what
is your role in that situation? Because the child might
very well feel some hostility towards you, but you still
have to function together as a family unit when that
(12:33):
side of the family is together. How do you navigate that?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Sometimes it'll depend upon Okay, how old is it the
child when parents were no longer together. Has there been
a gap of you know, ten twelve years in between,
or is it you know, six months after mom and
dad are no longer together. Now there's a stepfather or
stepmother in the situation, so that can come into play.
I'd say probably a key component there is to really
(13:00):
try to develop a friendship before we try to come
in with some parental authority when it's a person who
is in a step parent role, because a lot of
times the child has never really fully worked through why
mom and dad are not together and now here's this
other person who's you know, says hey, I'm the head
of the home, and so they try to exert their
(13:22):
authority and that usually doesn't work well. If they can
really try to develop and understanding again using the tools
of active listening and reflecting back you know what the
child is expressing, and even saying to the child. I
understand this is probably a pretty hard thing for you.
What's hardest about it? What are some of the things
(13:43):
that are most difficult for you in this new family arrangement.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Well, and the other day I was reaching into my
cabinet looking for something, and I noticed in the very
back a bottle of maple syrup had fallen over and
it had leaked, and it had gotten all over everything
in the back of the cabinet. And wasn't something that
happened now. It was something that probably happened months ago,
maybe a year ago, I don't know, But that syrup
had completely hardened and set, and not only was the
(14:09):
syrup a loss, but all the stuff in the back
of the cabinet. Probably you don't want to eat that
old food anyway, But I had to throw all of
it out. And I was thinking about the analogy of
when things are said and sometimes there's an incident, a
one off incident. But it was so awful, and then
we didn't do anything about it. We just walked away
and we let it sit there, and it hardened over
the weeks in the months, and it made it that
(14:30):
much more difficult to clean up. Glenn, how do we
address when something happens during the holidays and it's it's
one of those situations you just want to run away
from it and just pretend like it never happened, But
it's gonna sit it's gonna get worse. Do you recommend
that we clean up the syrup the moment it leaks
out of the thing, or do we need to step
back and kind of let cooler heads prevail. What's the
(14:51):
best way to approach one of those situations.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I think that first step is, Okay, what's going on
in my heart? What am I feeling? You know, our
feelings again are not you know, are not going to
always reflect what truth is, but they are real we
are feeling them. Secondly is to explore is there anything
I need to take ownership up? You know, was my
Maybe what I said was good, but maybe my attitude
(15:13):
or the words that I used were not the best
way to express that. So taking ownership if there is
anything that I need to do. I think the Biblical
principle of dealing with things quickly. Scripture says, you know,
be angry, but don't let the sun go down on
your anger. Doesn't mean that you have more time in
the winter to deal with things, because in the summer,
(15:37):
you know, the sun is up longer. But it does
mean deal with things on a quicker basis, and you know,
don't let it fester because the longer it festers, the
more that it's likely to you know, grow in place,
and really it's going to be more challenging, more difficult.
So i'd say, you know, if it's that opportunity to
(15:58):
even write a letter, if it's opportunity to say, hey,
I'd love to talk with you, sometimes what can be
helpful is doing that in a public place if it's possible,
because people might be less inclined to care about how
they're coming across if they're sitting in a kitchen table,
if we're you know, sitting at you know, Chili's or
(16:19):
wherever it might be, we're probably going to be a
little bit more careful how we communicate, our tone, our
volume is likely to be more subdued, which I think
in many ways can be helpful. So sometimes by addressing
those areas kind of say hey, I'd love to have
lunch lunch with you, you know, would you be open.
Is there some time this week that might work for you?
And that way you can bring it up in a
(16:40):
way that you have some kind of guidelines externally for
guardrails that will probably keep the conversation in a more constructive,
in a more gentle way.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
And Glenn, I don't want to make this all about
that we always must unify. There are such things as
toxic relationships and sometimes the best thing is for there
to be a separation. How do you determine when it's
a situation of it's not going to work and there's
a reason why it's not going to work and we
actually need the separation because that can happen, can't it?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
It sure can. There are times where we need to
be able to say no. I usually encourage people to
have what I refer to as a bridge. So what
bridge means I want the relationship, But there may be
something that needs to happen between now and when. Hopefully
that that bridge we're able to cross that together. And
so it may be that there needs to be some steps,
(17:35):
maybe for a person to talk to a counselor or
a pastor first. But where there are some steps that
need to occur, pretty rarely is it one where it's
just Okay, this is a relationship. I'm ending it. There's
no potential for any restoration whatsoever. I'd say I encourage
(17:56):
people towards looking Are there some middle ground components? You
know I was talking before about you know, where maybe
a person wants the eight relationship, you know, the other
person wants a four, or let's say a person says,
you know, zero is where it needs to be. Is
it possible for there to be a two or a
three or four something that allows there to be some connection,
but it protects it safeguards our hearts so that that
(18:20):
toxic component of the relationship is not impacting us in
powerful ways. But I would say just being aware of
the fact that you know, what impact does it have
upon me? Is there any part here that I'm playing
in this? Am I maybe stirring the pot in some ways?
If I am, I need to address that. But if
(18:42):
there's someone who really is not willing to have a
relationship or is just using the relationship in a manipulative way,
I may need to set some stronger boundaries and hopefully
there will be a change of heart. We can always
pray for another individual that they do have a chain
of heart that they're willing to address those areas in
their lives that need healing. But that softer heart and
(19:06):
spirit I think is really a key component.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Glenn, you mentioned the need for in a lot of
cases mediation, somebody a disinterested third party to kind of
help lead the relationship in a more productive and a
more healthy way. What do you look for in a
counselor be it a like I said another maybe you
get a person who's not member of the family. Maybe
you get somebody who's actually a pastoral staff at your church.
(19:31):
What do you look for in that person?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
I think you wanted to be a person where both
individuals or if there's several individ people that are going
to be meeting with them, that they all respect. You know,
if one persons, if it's a if it's a person
who's just tied into one of the individuals, it can
feel like you know they're on your side. So you
want it to be somebody who has that capacity to
(19:56):
really hear and understand and really does desire to see
the potential for healing in that relationship.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Glenn, we've covered a lot of ground today. Is there
a place focus on the family has where families can
go and find information about any of the things you
talked about, maybe more helpful hints as we approach the holidays.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Two things. One is they can give us a call
and speak with one of our counselors or pastoral counselors.
They can call one eight hundred A family eight hundred,
the letter A and then family. Or they can go
to our website www. Dot Focus on the Family dot com.
They can click on the parenting tab or whatever other
(20:35):
tab might be of help. There's a wealth of resources
available through that.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Glenn Lechend's a licensed marriage and family therapist with Focus
on the Family. Glenn, thank you so much for joining
us today and covering all of this ground. I hope
it's been very helpful for our listeners, and I hope
it's helpful for your program for us to get this
information out.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
John, great to be with you. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
In this day of AI and computers, there will always
be a place for the arts and in our world.
These wonderful expressions of our humanity are seen in paintings
and music and of course the theater. This is John
Mounts and now on Viewpoint, Alabama. I'm joined by Elaine Stols.
She is the associate vice president of Development and Community
Relations with the American Theater Guild. Elaine, Welcome to Viewpoint.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Oh, thank you, John, Good morning. Well, we're delighted to
talk about staging in the future, but let me give
you some background about American Theater Guilt. Absolutely, we are
the not for profit touring Broadway presenter of the Broadway
shows at the BJCC. Our mission is really simple. It's
really an opportunity that we try to create for students
(21:38):
and or served individuals to experience the magic of live theater.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
And when you say for underserved individuals, you're talking about
young people from the community who maybe otherwise don't have
exposure to these sort of things. And by exposure do
you mean participation or viewing or both both.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Our program is designed for Title one SKI students as
well as organizations that maybe fifty percent of their population
is poverty stricken, or they may have special needs. These
are individuals that may not have the means to go
(22:17):
to a Broadway show. We just really truly believe that
exposure to the arts is important. You know, it has
a way to move audiences, It fosters creativity, it inspires
kind of that next generation of artists, and so our
Stage in the Future program we provide that exposure through
(22:42):
funded tickets to our Broadway shows. Many of these kids
have never seen a Broadway show at all, and we're
hoping that these moments kind of nurture a lifelong love
and appreciation for the arts.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
You mentioned that they can also participate as well, so
in other words, there are ways for people, if they're
an aspiring actor, that they might be able to get
their foot in the door, maybe get some experience or
very least some training in that field.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Yeah, Well, in our program in particular, we work with kids,
So we've reached probably four thousand students and community members
since twenty twenty three, and this is designed so that
they can see our Broadway turning shows at the BJCC.
We have educational resources on our website and then we
(23:38):
provide we host events. So one of the examples is
during Wicked, we had provided tickets to several organizations and
schools in the Birmingham area. We provided talk back and
(23:58):
the cast members that play Glinda Back and Madame Morrible
were there. These kids were able to learn more about
what their journeys were in the performing arts. And of
course see such a beautiful and amazing show.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
So and this is pretty well received by a lot
of these students. Did you have a lot of people
come up and ask really good and form questions where
they engaged in watching the performance so they could kind
of make have questions about what they saw and the
way it's done.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yes, absolutely, all of the students were blown away. They
were incredibly engaged during the whole time. We've done other
community events like to Kill a Mockingbird. We had an
opportunity to spotlight Birmingham Public Library to help raise their
(24:52):
awareness of their literacy programs. We actually hosted a library
event at the Central Life location with Mary Badham, who
plays Scout in the original film and she's also in
the Broadway touring show production and students from the Alabama
School of Fine Arts were provided an opportunity to hear
(25:15):
about her experiences and on stage and in the movie,
and they were also gifted a books. So it was
just a wonderful experience for them to be able to
learn about the stage production, what it takes to have
a career in the performing arts.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I actually had an opportunity to speak with Mary Badham
last year when they were in town, and she talked
about the interesting role that she plays because of course,
like you mentioned, she was scouted in the original movie,
but of course today she can't play a child, so
she played an older lady who I forget the character
she played but had very outdated racist views, and the
(25:58):
struggle she had in trying to portray such a almost
an evil person in this thing, but that wasn't her
and how she had to really act to be able
to bring out the evil in the character that she
was she was supposed to portray when that wasn't her
personality at all, And that's the kind of thing that
a lot of the actors deal with as they portray
(26:19):
characters on stage.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
That's correct, that's correct, And she did talk about that
that it was a difficult activity. She had to really
kind of dig in deep to bring that character out,
but she believed so much into in the story and
the storyline that and she felt like this story was
(26:43):
something that was important to tell.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Now, the reason we're talking about this today is because
last Tuesday was Giving Tuesday, and although that is coming gone,
that doesn't mean you can't still give. And this is
a very worthy thing to give to the Staging the
Future your program, explain the organization's philanthropic branch and how
what Staging the Future specifically does for your organization.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Yeah, we thank you so much. We are asking for
support for and we really rely on the generosity of
our donors. The funds that we received through Staging the
Future are used to provide subsidized and funded tickets to
the underserved community members and youth in Birmingham to be
(27:35):
able to attend these wonderful, amazing Broadway touring shows. And
then again we host a lot of different types of
events for organizations in Birmingham to either help raise awareness
for the great things that they're doing for kids and
(27:55):
underserved community members, but also to allow them to participate
in talkbacks and masterclasses.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
And the Stage in the Future. People want to find
out more information about it, there is a website they
can go to.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah, you can go to americatheaterguilt dot com Staging in
the Future and we also have available a handle on
venmo now and you can go to our handle it's
at stf dash at Guilt. Again, we'd appreciate any support
(28:29):
from the community to introduce young audiences to the arts.
Any gift large or small, weld will certainly help us
and the students of Birmingham.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
And so one more time on VEMO. That's STF dash
At Guild. That's correct to give to you guys. Well,
I want to thank you so much for joining us
explaining a little bit about what it is that you
do and how you're able to help the community, help people, because,
like I said at the outset, I think the arts
are very important, especially in this day and age where
nothing is human anymore. At least the theater is implicitly human.
(29:04):
There's humans up there on the stage doing the acting,
and we hope that continues for many, many centuries to come,
just as it started, you know, well in you know,
two thousand or more years ago.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yeah, we certainly appreciate it. We think live theater is
extremely important and introduction to the arts. So thanks so much, John,
We certainly appreciate it and for your support of the
arts as well.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Absolutelyne, thank you so much for being on the program today.
You've been listening to Viewpoint Alabama, a public affairs program
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.