July 9, 2025 • 29 mins
Alison Ketchem a Birmingham Author who writes a compendium of stories from her childhood growing up in Alabama. Then Margaret Cartner, Big City Mountaineers Regional Program Manager in Birmingham talks about their mission to introduce the outdoors to the under-privileged.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Viewpoint Alabama on the Alabama Radio Network. I'm
John Mount and if you've listened to the show a while,
you know that I love to celebrate all things local,
and that's why I love local authors. And what's even
better is a local author talking about local things. Joining
me now is Alison Ketchum. She is the author of
the book You've Been Drinking Muddy Water. Allison, Welcome to
(00:22):
the show.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you, John. I'm really pleased and happy to be here. Nickled,
you might say.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And the first thing I noticed on this book is
there is a man on the cover of your book.
People can't see this because he's on the radio, but
I'm holding the book up. There's a man on the
cover of your book. Who's that guy?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
That is my dad. That is my dad back probably
when he was in his thirties. He got married. Dan's
late twenties. He's got a wedding ring on.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So what year was this.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Let's see, he was born in twenty seven, so you
fifty something, probably late fifties, okay, yahtly sixties.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So why is he the cover of your book? Why
is he so important to the stories that you tell
in your book?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
That's a great question. A lot of the stories in
the book are about my family. There is a series
of short stories that are nonfiction with just a tiny
bit of embellishing, especially for the gaps where I don't
remember the actual specifics.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
If no one else remembers either, it's fine. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
That's exactly what I felt like. There's nothing in here
that's going to harm anyone. Hopefully it's just going to
make you laugh. One of my favorite stories in the
book is called Killing Snakes, and it's about my dad.
I just love the iconic picture and just you know,
he's in the book a lot, so I felt like
it was a good cover for it.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well, I don't want you to spoil the book, but
tell me why killing Snakes is an interesting story?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Okay, it is an interesting story. A lot of people
actually have told me they can relate to this, which
I found surprising because I thought that my dad just
made up the term killing snakes. But what happened back
in the sixth We would head from Birmingham to the beach,
usually to destined excuse me, to fish and my mom
(02:08):
would be driving. My dad would be drinking beer and
he would just inevitably ask my mom at least two
or three times to pull off the side of I
guess it was three point thirty one, I think was
the main highway back then didn't have interstates, so that
he could go in the woods and kill a snake,
and he'd take off to the tree line and come
back and tell us everybody in the car that he
(02:29):
had just killed a snake. Well, my sister and I
never question what why was Daddy going off in the wood? Stick?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Cake didn't like those snakes.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
He just did not like the snake, and he was
going to rid the world of one more legless menace.
So for years this happened every time we'd go to
the beach. And one time it happened we were on
our way back and he brought back a prop He
brought back a long stick and said, I just killed
a snake with this stick. I asked if I could
(02:59):
take the stick to show and tell the next day
at mother Goose kindergarten in Cresline, and my parents said yes,
So I took the stick the next day.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Well it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
It wasn't until years later that I found out that
my dad was actually stopped getting my mother to stop
on the side of the road to peek, and he
called it killing snakes because that was just the way
he was. He thought it was funny, and so anyway,
that's that's one of the stories.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
So yeah, for all your life, you thought your dad
would and you never quite. That's the thing I think
our parents tell. They tell us stuff and we just
don't question it. And then because I used my father,
you would tell me tall tales all the time too,
And I would walk around and I would regurgitate these
tales to people and usually friends would go, wow, that's amazing,
and adults will look at me and go, yeah, really,
I don't think so, and I realized, oh, he was
(03:48):
making that up. And it wasn't until I became a
parent myself that I realized how often I think we
as adults do that with kids. I don't know if
we're trying to entertain them, if we're trying to see
how gullible they are. Kids are great because they don't
question it is they have that sense of the adults
know what they're doing, they know what they're talking about.
I think the scariest thing for all of us is
when we grow up and we realize that the adult
(04:08):
that now you're an adult and you don't know what
you're doing. Yeah, and then you all of a sudden realize, oh,
neither did they?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Neither did they? Yes? And you know what that actually,
that actually speaks to the fact that you know, I
remember a period of time which this is kind of
off the topic, but a period of time when I
was in my twenties said I was mad at my
parents for all the mistakes they made. But then when
I had my own kids, all the mistakes they made
raising me. Then when I had my own kids, it's
(04:38):
kind of like you said, I didn't know what I
was doing. I was flying by the seat of my parts,
and it made me so much, I mean completely forgiving
of my parents. I thought they were doing the best
they knew how to do, and nothing that they did
was all that bad.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Anyway. I always feel like when they hand you your
kid after birth, after in the hospital, when when you
get your kids from the nursery, they should hand you
a owner manual. Yes, here's what you need to know.
By the way, here's how you changed the diaper. I
need to know this in a few hours. Yes, because
I was very much to say I got home with
my daughter after she was born, and an hour later
she started crying, Oh, we have to feed her? How
(05:12):
do we feed her? And I actually called the nursery
at the hospital because I said, how do I do this? Sir?
Do you really not know? I really don't. I'll tell
you one time and then lose this phone number exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I remember driving home my husband and I driving home
from the hospital with my older son and thinking why
did they let me leave with him? Why did they
let me? I don't know what I'm doing. And fortunately
my husband had been married before, so he had two kids,
which are my step children. Loved them very much, all
(05:44):
grown now, but he knew what he was doing. So
I was able to turn to him and say, Okay,
what do we do? And he was able to tell me, thankfully.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And that is helpful.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Well.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Some of the wisdom that your parents and people went
before you are shared in your book You've Been Drink
Muddy Water Works speaking with Alison Ketchum, the author of
You've Been Drinking Muddy Water, and Allison, let's talk about
your uncle Bill, because you spend some time on him
in the book. Tell me about Uncle Bill.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Thank you very much, Yeah, my uncle Bill died many,
many years ago. He was honest to goodness, and we
all have this person in our lives. He was the
sweetest man I've ever known. Grew up with my mom
in Albany, Georgia. Very southern, very southern accent they both had,
and my grandmother did too.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
That's a great rendition, by the way.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Thank you very much. And he was just salt of
the earth, a wonderful man. He didn't talk about it
a whole lot, but he actually fought in World War Two.
He was in the army. He heard the opening shots
of the Battle of the Bulge and also landed on
Omaha Beach on day two of the Normandy invasion. Thankfully,
(06:55):
came back and was not injured. You know, lived a
wonderful life after that, married, had three kids, you know,
just and ended up spending the last many years of
his life writing country music and hoping for a big break,
which unfortunately he never got. But just a wonderful man.
And so I just wrote about him and wrote about
(07:17):
his funeral and about how my kids and his grandkids
carried the casket and how they all stood there as
the casket was sitting on the straps above the grave
and cried as soldiers would because they were all mourning
the loss of just a great man, just a wonderful man.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
And these are some of the stories that you tell
in your book. I always appreciate something like this because
it's not a long read. It's a very easy to
read book. I mean there's the chapters are fairly short,
and the whole book is only what about a one
hundred pages and pages, yeah, ninety one pages. Based on
what I have in my hand here, and as the
author of this book, how would you recommend people go
(07:58):
about reading it? Is this a a cover book? Is
this a little bit at a time book? How would
you read this?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well? Good question. You know. I've had some friends say,
and other folks. I've done book clubs and book signings
and whatnot and gotten a lot of feedback. I've called
it a bathroom reader, which my kids and my friends say,
don't call it that. But I like it because you
can sit down and read a chapter at the time.
(08:23):
I mean, I think we've all read those five hundred
page books.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
You call it a coffee table book.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Coffee table book, Yes, yes, it doesn't have those other connotations.
The connotation. And another one of the gals that edited
it for me, who worked for the Birmingham News where
we met many many years ago when I worked there,
she said, what about a coffee shop book, so you
you know, you can still read it one chapter at
a time and not have to commit, like, you know,
(08:49):
an hour or something to that chapter. They are short,
they're I've had some folks kind of compare it to
readers digest type of stories, so easily digestible.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
And you're from the Birmingham area, right, I am so
born and race, So you've been, you've been through, You've
seen a lot of things. And I'm not trying to
divulge your age, but you've seen some history happen in
our town. And one of the things, of course that
we all know is there's a big history of what
happened involving race, especially in the sixties and before in
this town. Yeah, how did that figure into some of
(09:24):
these stories that you have in this book, especially concerning
your father.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
The first story that I wrote for the book actually
was about my dad. He was a trial attorney and
actually president of the Birmingham Bar Association in Birmingham in
the mid seventies, his I think it was his first
job as an attorney in the early sixties was in
the Massi Building in downtown Birmingham, and he met a
(09:50):
My dad was white. One of his best friends to
the end of his life was a black man named
Ulysses Gulston. He and Ulysses met on the elevator in
the Massi Building where Ulysses was at the elevator operator,
and they became fast friends and just did all sorts
of things for each other through the years. Just a
(10:11):
wonderful friendship, which actually set a bar for me that
skin color matters no more than eye color or hair
color when it comes to the things that are imported
in life. And I even talk in the book about
asking my mom when I was ten years old in
nineteen seventy, what would she think if I wanted to
(10:32):
marry a black man? When I grew up. Where I
came up with that question, I have no idea. Maybe
it was from seeing Ulysses and loving him so much,
but I remember, without missing a beat, my mom said,
I just want to know that you loved him. And
that was in nineteen seventy in Birmingham, Alabama. You know
that was from the headlines that we saw at the time.
(10:53):
That was kind of that was unusual. But I can't
help but believe those kinds of kindnesses were going on
all over this city. They just didn't they didn't grab
headlines because that doesn't sell news, right.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Well, we see the stuff with the lunch counters, we
see the stuff about the you know, the dogs and
the fire hoses, But there are plenty of people in Birmingham,
even back in the sixties, even back in the forties,
who had no animus in their heart towards the other race.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I think it's it's that five percent that get the headline.
That we're getting the headlines nationally and internationally, but there's
a lot of people who didn't feel that way, and
I think that is a story that's not often told.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Thank you, John, I totally agree, and I actually that
was the catalyst for the book. I wrote that story first.
Also wrote a story about my dad's legal secretary who
worked for him for forty years, that she shared with
me about back in the sixties. She and Ulysses had
walked from the office to the bus stop to get
(11:52):
on the bus to both head home and how Ulysses
walked her to the front of the bus. Now this
was after Rosa Parks, so Ulysses could have gotten on
that bus with Gus no problem, you know, I mean,
there was no law against it, which there never should
have been to begin with. But he did not do that.
He walked her to the front of the bus and
(12:13):
he turned around and started to head to the back
of the bus to go in in that entrance. And
Gus told me later she said, I said to him, Ulysses,
you don't have to do that, and he said, yes, ma'am,
I do. And she said, he did it for me.
He did not want me to be looked at in
a negative light for getting on the bus with a
(12:34):
black man and sitting with him. And she said, you know,
he humbled himself over that. Those kind of stories, I know,
they happened all the time, and what an amazing thing
for a person to do, you know. It just I
just I don't know. And John, I would love to
tell more stories like that. I told you know, was
(12:56):
talking about it earlier. If any one is interested in
sharing their stories, I'd love to fill a book with
those kind of stories. Not to take away from the
fact that there were horrific things that happened. We're not
saying there weren't, but there were also unspoken kindnesses that
happened during that time.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And that was going to be one of my next questions,
was your next project. This is a great book, but
you're gonna You've got a lot more books than it
sounds like. So your next project, this is what you
kind of want to do.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yes, yes, I would love to do that. I don't
have enough to fill a book myself. I've already used
two of them in this book, but I would love
to talk to other people and interview them. I was
a newspaper reporter and editor many years ago, and so
I would love to fill a book with those kinds
of good stories. You know, we have so much negativity
(13:45):
in our world now. I think it's nice to remember
that there is some great things that happen in this world.
Even back in the sixties, there.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Were, of course, we can read any number of books
about the Booker, T. Washington, all these people who are
well known civil rights pioneers. But I think, like you said,
there's a lot of everyday stories from everyday people, kindnesses
that are small but actually build the fabric of our
society and That's the reason why I think Birmingham is
one of the friendliest cities around. Yes, the South gets
(14:15):
a bad rap because they've seen those pictures from nineteen
sixty four. But at the same time, I've been up
north plenty I'm actually from Ohio. I've been up there
plenty of times. There is just as much racism up there.
People just don't have the accent. Okay, that's the only
difference really. Yeah, And you know, I think too often
we don't realize just how friendly the South is, even
within the races, and I think it's a shame. One
(14:37):
of the things I was speaking with somebody the other
day about is what I call the most divided day
of the week, which is Sunday, because Black people go
to black church and white people go to white church.
There's a law that says it has to happen, but
that tends to happen. Yeah, And wouldn't it be amazing
if there was more cross cultural population of both. You know,
I love that.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I love that. You know that's funny that you say that.
I write in this book about going to Ulysses funeral
in Sumter County, Alabama, which is very rural in a
white clapboard church. I did not know that he had
passed away until that morning. I actually saw it on
social media and I got in my car and I
(15:19):
actually got pulled over on I twenty heading from Birmingham
to Sumter County going ninety five miles an hour because
I was determined I was not going to miss his funeral.
I got a ticket, but anyway, made it to you know,
it was a little bit late, but made it to
the funeral, and oh my gosh. There were blacks and whites. There,
(15:40):
more blacks than whites. But I told my kids later,
I said, when I die, have me a black funeral,
because that was so inspiring. I mean, they were celebrating
this man, singing and laughing and telling stories and it
was just wonderful. And that's not church in the trade,
(16:04):
you know, that's not Sunday.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Church, but it's worship.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
But it's worship, yes, And it was phenomenal, It really was.
It was a great celebration.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
You, Alison, what I tell everyone, there's no race in
heaven there you go, every everyone is, everyone is the
same color up there. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
You are so right. And you know, John, I don't know,
I'm not a I'm not a anthropologicology, yes, thank you.
You know, the only reason that blacks have darker skin
is because they were exposed to more sun. It's just
there's cultural differences, yes, but just but.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
We have far but we have far more, I think,
in common than we have. If you were to pick
me up, my heritage on both sides is German. If
you were to pick me up and place me in Germany,
I wouldn't be able to talk to those people at all.
Did you put me in any any place in America,
black or white, and I could relate to those people
all day long. Yeah, it's the same thing. You pick
up somebody, you pick up somebody who's who's black, you
(16:55):
put them in the middle of Nigeria and Africa. Again,
probably not gonna be able to relate very well. Probably
we as America, regardless of us getting color, have far
more in common with other Americans than we do with
our ancestors, you know, a continent away.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Absolutely, And I don't mean this to sound condescending or
pandering or anything. I've got tons of black friends. If
you're white and you choose not to have friends of
other races, you're missing out.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Sure, you're just missing out.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I don't know if that happens a lot in today's world.
I don't see it a lot in my daily life.
But I also am not black, so I'm sure if you,
I'm sure black people probably could tell you that they
still have a lot of judgments and people being ugly
and whatever, you know, So I'm not negating that at all,
(17:44):
but I just think, you know, let's just move on.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Very good point. Alison Kitcham. She is the author of
You've Been Drinking Muddy Water available, I'm assuming on all
the usual platforms Amazon. Are there any local bookstores to
carry this? Not right now?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
No, Actually it's on Amazon, and I'm actually starting next
week I'm going to work on an audio version, so
you know, hopefully that's going to be available soon. And John,
could I give out my emailed if anyone wants to
share their stories wonderful. It's my name at gmail dot com.
(18:19):
So it's Allison with one L A L I s
O n maide name large l A R G E.
Last name ketchum K E T C H A M
at gmail dot com. Alison large Ketchem at gmail dot com.
Please email me let me know if you've got a
positive story about race relations in the sixties or anytime
(18:43):
to share. I'd love to talk to you and include
you in my next book.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Allison, thank you so much for spending time with us
and enlightening us. I hope we didn't share too many
stories from the book and people will still want to
get out and get their own copy.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I hope so too.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
But uh yeah, yeah, but I've enjoyed it thoroughly.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Thank you. John, and you are listening to Viewpoint Alabama
on the Alabama Radio Network. My name is John Mounts.
For our next segment, we're talking about enjoying the outdoors
right here in our state. Joining me now is Margaret
Kartner with Big City Mountaineers. Margaret, welcome to the show.
Good morning, and I'm I always like hearing about things
that we can do in the outdoors in Alabama, the
beautiful things that can get people out because, let's face it,
(19:22):
we spend too much time inside in front of the
TV or in front of our phones. It's great to
get out and just enjoy our state.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Absolutely, and that's what we focus on.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Getting the youth out in order to appreciate the nature
that surrounds.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Them because there are a lot of great things to
see in the Birmingham area, but we're reaching the entire
state here, so there's stuff all the way from Muscle
shoals all the way down to the wiregrass and everywhere
in between that you're introducing people to. So tell me
about the mission of the Big City Mountaineers.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
At Big City Mountaineers, we provide transformative experiences through connections
to nature that strengthen life skills and build community for
youth from disinvested communities.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
So explain what a disinvested commune unity is?
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Basically any person whose identity is underrepresented in the outdoors.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Well, and there are. It is true that you don't
see a lot of folks on the trails, mainly from
the inner cities, and I guess I never really thought
about that, But some people don't have the access, maybe
they don't have transportation to get them to the trail
head that sort of thing. Is that kind of where
you come in.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Yeah, that's a key obstacle that our youth face. So
we focus on youth from ages twelve to eighteen and
we provide everything from instructors to gear, to food and transportation.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
So that's where we.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Step in to kind of bridge that gap and help
youth understand that there's a way to entertain themselves that
isn't inside.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
And if you're not really brought up to know what
to do out there, because there's far more than just
walking on a trail. There's things you do when you
get out into the wilderness, you know, canoeing and repelling, spelunking,
all sorts of things. In Alabama we have all those things.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Yes, and I really want our students to understand that
they can do those things here. Even though the media
would have you believe that it's all out west. We
have so many beautiful things to engage with here in
Alabas and we try to keep it close so that
students can re engage with those spaces after they finish
their programming with us.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
So where are you active in the state, the whole
state or did you just start in Birmingham.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
We started in Birmingham.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
We are now completing our second season. So we started
in twenty twenty four and we focus on areas around
Birmingham because that's where we're focusing on the youth that
we're serving, and again, we want to show them spaces
that they can re engage with. But We have been
as north as the Sipsey the Bankad National Forest, but
we are closer here. We do Roughner Oak Mountain, chie
Haw Tanny Hill, we've been down to oh my gosh,
(21:34):
there's so many now, but.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Probably Talladagana National Forest to our east.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yes, that's where our students are right now. They're finishing.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Our final expedition of the season is out right now.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
These kids, as you mentioned, they're kind of being introduced
to this, and so they're novices at the outdoor stuff.
So I imagine there's a little bit of a training
you have to give them in terms of, you know,
trail out of kit, had a hike and the proper
gear or all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
We start the youth with a day hike and then
by choice, they choose if they want to engage with
the overnight camp. And after that, if they're still engaged,
then we'll lead them into a seven, five or seven
day backpacking expedition.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
When you talk about overnight camp, so this is when
they're actually carrying all the stuff on their back.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
The overnight is more of a car camping situation. The
sooners can choose to carry their big pack with everything
in it but it's where we introduce kind of this
more stringent hike and then we camp in a more
isolated spot so they can really develop their own community
amongst themselves.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
If I had the option to not carry the tent,
I prefer not to. But when you're backpacking, you don't
have that option. You kind of have to carry your
home on your back.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Yes, for the five to seven day they are carrying everything, food, water, gear, tent,
sleeping bag.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
The whole shebang.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Do you do this year round?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Not right now.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Right now it's focused on the spring, but we have
had youth particularly ask for more programming in the fall,
So that's something that we're talking about as an organization.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I was going to say, because if it gets cold
now Alabama, especially in January, so you're going to need
a pretty robust bag if you're going to go camping
in January, but if you're camping in April, you can
get away with a lighter bag absolutely, And that equipment's
not cheap. So do you guys have access to equipment
because I imagine a lot of the people who are
doing this they don't own the equipment themselves.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yes, we provide all the gear that they need. All
of the equipment, and we're lucky we get quite a
few donations.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Do you have any sponsors that also like corporate sponsors
or businesses that also are involved with maybe helping you
equip yourselves.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yes, pretty much all of them.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
We are packs or ausprey or osprey, depending on how
you say it. Outdoor Research has been super kind, Big Agnes, MSR,
all the main outdoor brands have been very generous over
the years and have donated all of our gear. It's
all nice gear that I would take on my own
backpacking expedition, that I pay money for to go do
on my own. So we're providing the students with the
(23:41):
same quality of gear.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I guess you give them some sort of leadership on
the trail, like somebody from big city Mountaineers or with
them to say, okay, now we're going to go this
way because it's easy to get lost in the woods.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yes, so we have two qualified instructors that are trained
and on trail with youth. We also ask the youth
agency that we work with to bring a lead.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
We aren't open enrollment.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
We work with youth agency partners around town like you
serve break Through Birmingham Girls Inc.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Huffman Outdoor Adventure Club.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Those types of organizations, and those orgs actually also provide
an adult to help attach their experience and their reflections
from trail back to their daily life.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I'm just wondering because I was in the Boy Scouts
thirty plus years ago, and when we used to do
a lot of this stuff, we had a map, usually
in a zip block bag. So I think, get wet
in a compass and that was it, and that's how
we navigated the trails. Have things graduated where now you
use a cell phone? Are you still using the map
in the compass?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
So we still use a map in a compass.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
There are GPS devices that we send on trail, but
students actually aren't allowed to have their phones on trail
as of now. We try and really encourage them to
unplug and experience.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
How can you do that? They must lose their minds.
It's like you had to go through detox.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yeah, they do get nervous at first, but actually on
all of our surveys they record having either no reaction
to it in the end or being really appreciative for
that time being unplugged.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Although then they also can't take any picture. Can you
I guess I could take a digital camera.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Right, We send, Yes, we send cameras.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
You can offload your pictures at the end and then
post your social media exactly.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
So they have cameras throughout the trip that they can
take and document their trip. We upload it for them
and share it with them afterwards.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Is there any cost to the kids. No, So if
there's no cost to the kids, this thing cost mighty
to run. How do you operate?
Speaker 4 (25:20):
We're mainly donation based, but from private foundations. We do
have grants state and federal, which have fluctuated a little
bit this year, but that we're donation based.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
So.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Is it also that there's a lot of volunteers that
the leadership is volunteer mostly.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
No, we're we're full staffed and our instructors are paid.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
We do have volunteers that go on trail with you
that are completely vetted and trained, but.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Their additional help.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
We've learned that we can't quite run as efficiently and
as dependably dependably as we'd like if we without paid help.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
This is view Point Alabama on the Alabama Radio Network.
My name is John Mountsin speaking with Margaret Cartner Chieze
with the Big City Mountaineers and Market. You said it's
only been around for a couple years.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Well, the organization's been around for thirty five anniversary actually,
but we're based out of Denver. But the Birmingham branch
we launched last spring. So since twenty twenty four, around
March twenty twenty four is when we've been here in Birmingham.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Okay, so the Birmingham chapter is the new thing exactly,
but the organization's been around for a while. Is the
ultimate intent to be able to have these people go
on trips that say, are not just Birmingham, but maybe
go to other places, like other state because you're right,
there is bigger stuff to look at. We have mountains here,
but they're not like the ones you have in the
Denver area.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Right. Well, I'm Birmingham born and raised, and so I'm
a big proponent of staying here. We actually did have
an opportunity last year Southwest sponsored for alumni students to
fly to Denver to celebrate for our thirty fifth anniversary.
So we figured out who those students are. They're going
to fly in a couple of months to our big
cornhole tournament out there, and that would be a beautiful goal.
We love to do something like that, and we've had
(27:00):
students ask if they can, but right now it's not
in the budget.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Well, it takes a little bit of time to get
that money together. Okay, So we've talked about the things
that you do. How do people get involved? First of all,
you're a if you're a student or a parent. If
somebody wants to be involved, how do they sign up?
How do they find a chapter?
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Well, you would talk to whatever type of youth group
that your student is involved in. That can be a
school club, that can be any sort of organization that
you're involved in around town. That's who we work with directly.
So again we work with organizations like Youth Serve Girls, Inc,
Breakthrough Birmingham, and Huffman Outdoor Adventure Club. We also work
with Holy Family, Critsoure and build Up Birmingham. Those two
(27:40):
schools and Huffman all three are doing outdoor clubs.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
So if you have a student.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Who's interested and they can find a teacher sponsor who
might be interested in hosting a club like this, they
send them my way.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I'd be happy to give some consulting advice.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
And you've also got a website.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
I assume Yes, big City Mountaineers dot org and.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
You can probably google that and there's probably a Facebook
page something like that if we were to look for
Big City Mountaineers yes, dot org. Uh, Margaret, thank you
so much for joining us, and yeah, get out there
and enjoy. I mean, it's awfully hot. Do you do
anything in July? You don't do anything?
Speaker 4 (28:11):
No, we did last year, but it is so warm,
it's kind of rough. And our goal is to have
students want to re engage. Oh yeah, that's great, and
that's a tough sell.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, I was gonna say so maybe so definitely in
the spring, but maybe in the fall. You might have
some programming coming up.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Yeah, we're hoping to launch some some program in the fall,
and we will for sure be running again in the spring.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
You know, a great place to get down to. I
don't know if you've been down there or not, but
this is kind of in the down in the black Belt.
Is Alabama's first capital. Have you ever been down Yeah,
Cahaba and it w Cahaba. I know, yes, and it's
an incredible place to pike around. So you've been down there.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I haven't yet.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
I've actually looked at it as a potential area for
us to visit. We're talking about actually introducing canoeing as
part of our programming as well in the future. And
when we talk about doing that expedition, doing part of
the Cahaba down to the confluence and then doing a
tour in Cahabo would be really amazing.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
And you can also i mean this is more of
an urban thing, but you can go see Selma because
there's a lot of history there. So there's a lot
of history all through that part of the state.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
So absolutely, we have a cool opportunity coming. One of
our groups from Denver is coming to do a civil
rights trip next year and they want to do a
hike with us while they're here. So we're hoping to
combine the regions in that way and celebrate that history.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
And that's and that all sounds like a great thing
and opens minds because you can see history and you
can also see nature all at the same time.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Well they're often interconnected, and teach.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Them the difference between regular plants and poison ivy.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yes, yes, that's an important distinction.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Margaret Cartner, thank you so much for joining us this
week on Viewpoint Alabama.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
You've been listening to Viewpoint Alabama, a public affairs program
from the Alabama Radio Network. The opinions expressed on Viewpoint
Alabama are not necessarily those of the staff, management, or
advertisers of this station
This is Viewpoint Alabama on the Alabama Radio Network. I'm
John Mount and if you've listened to the show a while,
you know that I love to celebrate all things local,
and that's why I love local authors. And what's even
better is a local author talking about local things. Joining
me now is Alison Ketchum. She is the author of
the book You've Been Drinking Muddy Water. Allison, Welcome to
(00:22):
the show.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you, John. I'm really pleased and happy to be here. Nickled,
you might say.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And the first thing I noticed on this book is
there is a man on the cover of your book.
People can't see this because he's on the radio, but
I'm holding the book up. There's a man on the
cover of your book. Who's that guy?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
That is my dad. That is my dad back probably
when he was in his thirties. He got married. Dan's
late twenties. He's got a wedding ring on.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So what year was this.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Let's see, he was born in twenty seven, so you
fifty something, probably late fifties, okay, yahtly sixties.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So why is he the cover of your book? Why
is he so important to the stories that you tell
in your book?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
That's a great question. A lot of the stories in
the book are about my family. There is a series
of short stories that are nonfiction with just a tiny
bit of embellishing, especially for the gaps where I don't
remember the actual specifics.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
If no one else remembers either, it's fine. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
That's exactly what I felt like. There's nothing in here
that's going to harm anyone. Hopefully it's just going to
make you laugh. One of my favorite stories in the
book is called Killing Snakes, and it's about my dad.
I just love the iconic picture and just you know,
he's in the book a lot, so I felt like
it was a good cover for it.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well, I don't want you to spoil the book, but
tell me why killing Snakes is an interesting story?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Okay, it is an interesting story. A lot of people
actually have told me they can relate to this, which
I found surprising because I thought that my dad just
made up the term killing snakes. But what happened back
in the sixth We would head from Birmingham to the beach,
usually to destined excuse me, to fish and my mom
(02:08):
would be driving. My dad would be drinking beer and
he would just inevitably ask my mom at least two
or three times to pull off the side of I
guess it was three point thirty one, I think was
the main highway back then didn't have interstates, so that
he could go in the woods and kill a snake,
and he'd take off to the tree line and come
back and tell us everybody in the car that he
(02:29):
had just killed a snake. Well, my sister and I
never question what why was Daddy going off in the wood? Stick?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Cake didn't like those snakes.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
He just did not like the snake, and he was
going to rid the world of one more legless menace.
So for years this happened every time we'd go to
the beach. And one time it happened we were on
our way back and he brought back a prop He
brought back a long stick and said, I just killed
a snake with this stick. I asked if I could
(02:59):
take the stick to show and tell the next day
at mother Goose kindergarten in Cresline, and my parents said yes,
So I took the stick the next day.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Well it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
It wasn't until years later that I found out that
my dad was actually stopped getting my mother to stop
on the side of the road to peek, and he
called it killing snakes because that was just the way
he was. He thought it was funny, and so anyway,
that's that's one of the stories.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
So yeah, for all your life, you thought your dad
would and you never quite. That's the thing I think
our parents tell. They tell us stuff and we just
don't question it. And then because I used my father,
you would tell me tall tales all the time too,
And I would walk around and I would regurgitate these
tales to people and usually friends would go, wow, that's amazing,
and adults will look at me and go, yeah, really,
I don't think so, and I realized, oh, he was
(03:48):
making that up. And it wasn't until I became a
parent myself that I realized how often I think we
as adults do that with kids. I don't know if
we're trying to entertain them, if we're trying to see
how gullible they are. Kids are great because they don't
question it is they have that sense of the adults
know what they're doing, they know what they're talking about.
I think the scariest thing for all of us is
when we grow up and we realize that the adult
(04:08):
that now you're an adult and you don't know what
you're doing. Yeah, and then you all of a sudden realize, oh,
neither did they?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Neither did they? Yes? And you know what that actually,
that actually speaks to the fact that you know, I
remember a period of time which this is kind of
off the topic, but a period of time when I
was in my twenties said I was mad at my
parents for all the mistakes they made. But then when
I had my own kids, all the mistakes they made
raising me. Then when I had my own kids, it's
(04:38):
kind of like you said, I didn't know what I
was doing. I was flying by the seat of my parts,
and it made me so much, I mean completely forgiving
of my parents. I thought they were doing the best
they knew how to do, and nothing that they did
was all that bad.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Anyway. I always feel like when they hand you your
kid after birth, after in the hospital, when when you
get your kids from the nursery, they should hand you
a owner manual. Yes, here's what you need to know.
By the way, here's how you changed the diaper. I
need to know this in a few hours. Yes, because
I was very much to say I got home with
my daughter after she was born, and an hour later
she started crying, Oh, we have to feed her? How
(05:12):
do we feed her? And I actually called the nursery
at the hospital because I said, how do I do this? Sir?
Do you really not know? I really don't. I'll tell
you one time and then lose this phone number exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I remember driving home my husband and I driving home
from the hospital with my older son and thinking why
did they let me leave with him? Why did they
let me? I don't know what I'm doing. And fortunately
my husband had been married before, so he had two kids,
which are my step children. Loved them very much, all
(05:44):
grown now, but he knew what he was doing. So
I was able to turn to him and say, Okay,
what do we do? And he was able to tell me, thankfully.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And that is helpful.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Well.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Some of the wisdom that your parents and people went
before you are shared in your book You've Been Drink
Muddy Water Works speaking with Alison Ketchum, the author of
You've Been Drinking Muddy Water, and Allison, let's talk about
your uncle Bill, because you spend some time on him
in the book. Tell me about Uncle Bill.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Thank you very much, Yeah, my uncle Bill died many,
many years ago. He was honest to goodness, and we
all have this person in our lives. He was the
sweetest man I've ever known. Grew up with my mom
in Albany, Georgia. Very southern, very southern accent they both had,
and my grandmother did too.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
That's a great rendition, by the way.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Thank you very much. And he was just salt of
the earth, a wonderful man. He didn't talk about it
a whole lot, but he actually fought in World War Two.
He was in the army. He heard the opening shots
of the Battle of the Bulge and also landed on
Omaha Beach on day two of the Normandy invasion. Thankfully,
(06:55):
came back and was not injured. You know, lived a
wonderful life after that, married, had three kids, you know,
just and ended up spending the last many years of
his life writing country music and hoping for a big break,
which unfortunately he never got. But just a wonderful man.
And so I just wrote about him and wrote about
(07:17):
his funeral and about how my kids and his grandkids
carried the casket and how they all stood there as
the casket was sitting on the straps above the grave
and cried as soldiers would because they were all mourning
the loss of just a great man, just a wonderful man.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
And these are some of the stories that you tell
in your book. I always appreciate something like this because
it's not a long read. It's a very easy to
read book. I mean there's the chapters are fairly short,
and the whole book is only what about a one
hundred pages and pages, yeah, ninety one pages. Based on
what I have in my hand here, and as the
author of this book, how would you recommend people go
(07:58):
about reading it? Is this a a cover book? Is
this a little bit at a time book? How would
you read this?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well? Good question. You know. I've had some friends say,
and other folks. I've done book clubs and book signings
and whatnot and gotten a lot of feedback. I've called
it a bathroom reader, which my kids and my friends say,
don't call it that. But I like it because you
can sit down and read a chapter at the time.
(08:23):
I mean, I think we've all read those five hundred
page books.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
You call it a coffee table book.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Coffee table book, Yes, yes, it doesn't have those other connotations.
The connotation. And another one of the gals that edited
it for me, who worked for the Birmingham News where
we met many many years ago when I worked there,
she said, what about a coffee shop book, so you
you know, you can still read it one chapter at
a time and not have to commit, like, you know,
(08:49):
an hour or something to that chapter. They are short,
they're I've had some folks kind of compare it to
readers digest type of stories, so easily digestible.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
And you're from the Birmingham area, right, I am so
born and race, So you've been, you've been through, You've
seen a lot of things. And I'm not trying to
divulge your age, but you've seen some history happen in
our town. And one of the things, of course that
we all know is there's a big history of what
happened involving race, especially in the sixties and before in
this town. Yeah, how did that figure into some of
(09:24):
these stories that you have in this book, especially concerning
your father.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
The first story that I wrote for the book actually
was about my dad. He was a trial attorney and
actually president of the Birmingham Bar Association in Birmingham in
the mid seventies, his I think it was his first
job as an attorney in the early sixties was in
the Massi Building in downtown Birmingham, and he met a
(09:50):
My dad was white. One of his best friends to
the end of his life was a black man named
Ulysses Gulston. He and Ulysses met on the elevator in
the Massi Building where Ulysses was at the elevator operator,
and they became fast friends and just did all sorts
of things for each other through the years. Just a
(10:11):
wonderful friendship, which actually set a bar for me that
skin color matters no more than eye color or hair
color when it comes to the things that are imported
in life. And I even talk in the book about
asking my mom when I was ten years old in
nineteen seventy, what would she think if I wanted to
(10:32):
marry a black man? When I grew up. Where I
came up with that question, I have no idea. Maybe
it was from seeing Ulysses and loving him so much,
but I remember, without missing a beat, my mom said,
I just want to know that you loved him. And
that was in nineteen seventy in Birmingham, Alabama. You know
that was from the headlines that we saw at the time.
(10:53):
That was kind of that was unusual. But I can't
help but believe those kinds of kindnesses were going on
all over this city. They just didn't they didn't grab
headlines because that doesn't sell news, right.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Well, we see the stuff with the lunch counters, we
see the stuff about the you know, the dogs and
the fire hoses, But there are plenty of people in Birmingham,
even back in the sixties, even back in the forties,
who had no animus in their heart towards the other race.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I think it's it's that five percent that get the headline.
That we're getting the headlines nationally and internationally, but there's
a lot of people who didn't feel that way, and
I think that is a story that's not often told.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Thank you, John, I totally agree, and I actually that
was the catalyst for the book. I wrote that story first.
Also wrote a story about my dad's legal secretary who
worked for him for forty years, that she shared with
me about back in the sixties. She and Ulysses had
walked from the office to the bus stop to get
(11:52):
on the bus to both head home and how Ulysses
walked her to the front of the bus. Now this
was after Rosa Parks, so Ulysses could have gotten on
that bus with Gus no problem, you know, I mean,
there was no law against it, which there never should
have been to begin with. But he did not do that.
He walked her to the front of the bus and
(12:13):
he turned around and started to head to the back
of the bus to go in in that entrance. And
Gus told me later she said, I said to him, Ulysses,
you don't have to do that, and he said, yes, ma'am,
I do. And she said, he did it for me.
He did not want me to be looked at in
a negative light for getting on the bus with a
(12:34):
black man and sitting with him. And she said, you know,
he humbled himself over that. Those kind of stories, I know,
they happened all the time, and what an amazing thing
for a person to do, you know. It just I
just I don't know. And John, I would love to
tell more stories like that. I told you know, was
(12:56):
talking about it earlier. If any one is interested in
sharing their stories, I'd love to fill a book with
those kind of stories. Not to take away from the
fact that there were horrific things that happened. We're not
saying there weren't, but there were also unspoken kindnesses that
happened during that time.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And that was going to be one of my next questions,
was your next project. This is a great book, but
you're gonna You've got a lot more books than it
sounds like. So your next project, this is what you
kind of want to do.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yes, yes, I would love to do that. I don't
have enough to fill a book myself. I've already used
two of them in this book, but I would love
to talk to other people and interview them. I was
a newspaper reporter and editor many years ago, and so
I would love to fill a book with those kinds
of good stories. You know, we have so much negativity
(13:45):
in our world now. I think it's nice to remember
that there is some great things that happen in this world.
Even back in the sixties, there.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Were, of course, we can read any number of books
about the Booker, T. Washington, all these people who are
well known civil rights pioneers. But I think, like you said,
there's a lot of everyday stories from everyday people, kindnesses
that are small but actually build the fabric of our
society and That's the reason why I think Birmingham is
one of the friendliest cities around. Yes, the South gets
(14:15):
a bad rap because they've seen those pictures from nineteen
sixty four. But at the same time, I've been up
north plenty I'm actually from Ohio. I've been up there
plenty of times. There is just as much racism up there.
People just don't have the accent. Okay, that's the only
difference really. Yeah, And you know, I think too often
we don't realize just how friendly the South is, even
within the races, and I think it's a shame. One
(14:37):
of the things I was speaking with somebody the other
day about is what I call the most divided day
of the week, which is Sunday, because Black people go
to black church and white people go to white church.
There's a law that says it has to happen, but
that tends to happen. Yeah, And wouldn't it be amazing
if there was more cross cultural population of both. You know,
I love that.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I love that. You know that's funny that you say that.
I write in this book about going to Ulysses funeral
in Sumter County, Alabama, which is very rural in a
white clapboard church. I did not know that he had
passed away until that morning. I actually saw it on
social media and I got in my car and I
(15:19):
actually got pulled over on I twenty heading from Birmingham
to Sumter County going ninety five miles an hour because
I was determined I was not going to miss his funeral.
I got a ticket, but anyway, made it to you know,
it was a little bit late, but made it to
the funeral, and oh my gosh. There were blacks and whites. There,
(15:40):
more blacks than whites. But I told my kids later,
I said, when I die, have me a black funeral,
because that was so inspiring. I mean, they were celebrating
this man, singing and laughing and telling stories and it
was just wonderful. And that's not church in the trade,
(16:04):
you know, that's not Sunday.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Church, but it's worship.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
But it's worship, yes, And it was phenomenal, It really was.
It was a great celebration.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
You, Alison, what I tell everyone, there's no race in
heaven there you go, every everyone is, everyone is the
same color up there. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
You are so right. And you know, John, I don't know,
I'm not a I'm not a anthropologicology, yes, thank you.
You know, the only reason that blacks have darker skin
is because they were exposed to more sun. It's just
there's cultural differences, yes, but just but.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
We have far but we have far more, I think,
in common than we have. If you were to pick
me up, my heritage on both sides is German. If
you were to pick me up and place me in Germany,
I wouldn't be able to talk to those people at all.
Did you put me in any any place in America,
black or white, and I could relate to those people
all day long. Yeah, it's the same thing. You pick
up somebody, you pick up somebody who's who's black, you
(16:55):
put them in the middle of Nigeria and Africa. Again,
probably not gonna be able to relate very well. Probably
we as America, regardless of us getting color, have far
more in common with other Americans than we do with
our ancestors, you know, a continent away.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Absolutely, And I don't mean this to sound condescending or
pandering or anything. I've got tons of black friends. If
you're white and you choose not to have friends of
other races, you're missing out.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Sure, you're just missing out.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I don't know if that happens a lot in today's world.
I don't see it a lot in my daily life.
But I also am not black, so I'm sure if you,
I'm sure black people probably could tell you that they
still have a lot of judgments and people being ugly
and whatever, you know, So I'm not negating that at all,
(17:44):
but I just think, you know, let's just move on.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Very good point. Alison Kitcham. She is the author of
You've Been Drinking Muddy Water available, I'm assuming on all
the usual platforms Amazon. Are there any local bookstores to
carry this? Not right now?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
No, Actually it's on Amazon, and I'm actually starting next
week I'm going to work on an audio version, so
you know, hopefully that's going to be available soon. And John,
could I give out my emailed if anyone wants to
share their stories wonderful. It's my name at gmail dot com.
(18:19):
So it's Allison with one L A L I s
O n maide name large l A R G E.
Last name ketchum K E T C H A M
at gmail dot com. Alison large Ketchem at gmail dot com.
Please email me let me know if you've got a
positive story about race relations in the sixties or anytime
(18:43):
to share. I'd love to talk to you and include
you in my next book.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Allison, thank you so much for spending time with us
and enlightening us. I hope we didn't share too many
stories from the book and people will still want to
get out and get their own copy.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I hope so too.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
But uh yeah, yeah, but I've enjoyed it thoroughly.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Thank you. John, and you are listening to Viewpoint Alabama
on the Alabama Radio Network. My name is John Mounts.
For our next segment, we're talking about enjoying the outdoors
right here in our state. Joining me now is Margaret
Kartner with Big City Mountaineers. Margaret, welcome to the show.
Good morning, and I'm I always like hearing about things
that we can do in the outdoors in Alabama, the
beautiful things that can get people out because, let's face it,
(19:22):
we spend too much time inside in front of the
TV or in front of our phones. It's great to
get out and just enjoy our state.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Absolutely, and that's what we focus on.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Getting the youth out in order to appreciate the nature
that surrounds.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Them because there are a lot of great things to
see in the Birmingham area, but we're reaching the entire
state here, so there's stuff all the way from Muscle
shoals all the way down to the wiregrass and everywhere
in between that you're introducing people to. So tell me
about the mission of the Big City Mountaineers.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
At Big City Mountaineers, we provide transformative experiences through connections
to nature that strengthen life skills and build community for
youth from disinvested communities.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
So explain what a disinvested commune unity is?
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Basically any person whose identity is underrepresented in the outdoors.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Well, and there are. It is true that you don't
see a lot of folks on the trails, mainly from
the inner cities, and I guess I never really thought
about that, But some people don't have the access, maybe
they don't have transportation to get them to the trail
head that sort of thing. Is that kind of where
you come in.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Yeah, that's a key obstacle that our youth face. So
we focus on youth from ages twelve to eighteen and
we provide everything from instructors to gear, to food and transportation.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
So that's where we.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Step in to kind of bridge that gap and help
youth understand that there's a way to entertain themselves that
isn't inside.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
And if you're not really brought up to know what
to do out there, because there's far more than just
walking on a trail. There's things you do when you
get out into the wilderness, you know, canoeing and repelling, spelunking,
all sorts of things. In Alabama we have all those things.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Yes, and I really want our students to understand that
they can do those things here. Even though the media
would have you believe that it's all out west. We
have so many beautiful things to engage with here in
Alabas and we try to keep it close so that
students can re engage with those spaces after they finish
their programming with us.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
So where are you active in the state, the whole
state or did you just start in Birmingham.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
We started in Birmingham.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
We are now completing our second season. So we started
in twenty twenty four and we focus on areas around
Birmingham because that's where we're focusing on the youth that
we're serving, and again, we want to show them spaces
that they can re engage with. But We have been
as north as the Sipsey the Bankad National Forest, but
we are closer here. We do Roughner Oak Mountain, chie
Haw Tanny Hill, we've been down to oh my gosh,
(21:34):
there's so many now, but.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Probably Talladagana National Forest to our east.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yes, that's where our students are right now. They're finishing.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Our final expedition of the season is out right now.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
These kids, as you mentioned, they're kind of being introduced
to this, and so they're novices at the outdoor stuff.
So I imagine there's a little bit of a training
you have to give them in terms of, you know,
trail out of kit, had a hike and the proper
gear or all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
We start the youth with a day hike and then
by choice, they choose if they want to engage with
the overnight camp. And after that, if they're still engaged,
then we'll lead them into a seven, five or seven
day backpacking expedition.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
When you talk about overnight camp, so this is when
they're actually carrying all the stuff on their back.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
The overnight is more of a car camping situation. The
sooners can choose to carry their big pack with everything
in it but it's where we introduce kind of this
more stringent hike and then we camp in a more
isolated spot so they can really develop their own community
amongst themselves.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
If I had the option to not carry the tent,
I prefer not to. But when you're backpacking, you don't
have that option. You kind of have to carry your
home on your back.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Yes, for the five to seven day they are carrying everything, food, water, gear, tent,
sleeping bag.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
The whole shebang.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Do you do this year round?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Not right now.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Right now it's focused on the spring, but we have
had youth particularly ask for more programming in the fall,
So that's something that we're talking about as an organization.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I was going to say, because if it gets cold
now Alabama, especially in January, so you're going to need
a pretty robust bag if you're going to go camping
in January, but if you're camping in April, you can
get away with a lighter bag absolutely, And that equipment's
not cheap. So do you guys have access to equipment
because I imagine a lot of the people who are
doing this they don't own the equipment themselves.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yes, we provide all the gear that they need. All
of the equipment, and we're lucky we get quite a
few donations.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Do you have any sponsors that also like corporate sponsors
or businesses that also are involved with maybe helping you
equip yourselves.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yes, pretty much all of them.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
We are packs or ausprey or osprey, depending on how
you say it. Outdoor Research has been super kind, Big Agnes, MSR,
all the main outdoor brands have been very generous over
the years and have donated all of our gear. It's
all nice gear that I would take on my own
backpacking expedition, that I pay money for to go do
on my own. So we're providing the students with the
(23:41):
same quality of gear.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I guess you give them some sort of leadership on
the trail, like somebody from big city Mountaineers or with
them to say, okay, now we're going to go this
way because it's easy to get lost in the woods.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yes, so we have two qualified instructors that are trained
and on trail with youth. We also ask the youth
agency that we work with to bring a lead.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
We aren't open enrollment.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
We work with youth agency partners around town like you
serve break Through Birmingham Girls Inc.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Huffman Outdoor Adventure Club.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Those types of organizations, and those orgs actually also provide
an adult to help attach their experience and their reflections
from trail back to their daily life.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I'm just wondering because I was in the Boy Scouts
thirty plus years ago, and when we used to do
a lot of this stuff, we had a map, usually
in a zip block bag. So I think, get wet
in a compass and that was it, and that's how
we navigated the trails. Have things graduated where now you
use a cell phone? Are you still using the map
in the compass?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
So we still use a map in a compass.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
There are GPS devices that we send on trail, but
students actually aren't allowed to have their phones on trail
as of now. We try and really encourage them to
unplug and experience.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
How can you do that? They must lose their minds.
It's like you had to go through detox.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yeah, they do get nervous at first, but actually on
all of our surveys they record having either no reaction
to it in the end or being really appreciative for
that time being unplugged.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Although then they also can't take any picture. Can you
I guess I could take a digital camera.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Right, We send, Yes, we send cameras.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
You can offload your pictures at the end and then
post your social media exactly.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
So they have cameras throughout the trip that they can
take and document their trip. We upload it for them
and share it with them afterwards.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Is there any cost to the kids. No, So if
there's no cost to the kids, this thing cost mighty
to run. How do you operate?
Speaker 4 (25:20):
We're mainly donation based, but from private foundations. We do
have grants state and federal, which have fluctuated a little
bit this year, but that we're donation based.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
So.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Is it also that there's a lot of volunteers that
the leadership is volunteer mostly.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
No, we're we're full staffed and our instructors are paid.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
We do have volunteers that go on trail with you
that are completely vetted and trained, but.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Their additional help.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
We've learned that we can't quite run as efficiently and
as dependably dependably as we'd like if we without paid help.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
This is view Point Alabama on the Alabama Radio Network.
My name is John Mountsin speaking with Margaret Cartner Chieze
with the Big City Mountaineers and Market. You said it's
only been around for a couple years.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Well, the organization's been around for thirty five anniversary actually,
but we're based out of Denver. But the Birmingham branch
we launched last spring. So since twenty twenty four, around
March twenty twenty four is when we've been here in Birmingham.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Okay, so the Birmingham chapter is the new thing exactly,
but the organization's been around for a while. Is the
ultimate intent to be able to have these people go
on trips that say, are not just Birmingham, but maybe
go to other places, like other state because you're right,
there is bigger stuff to look at. We have mountains here,
but they're not like the ones you have in the
Denver area.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Right. Well, I'm Birmingham born and raised, and so I'm
a big proponent of staying here. We actually did have
an opportunity last year Southwest sponsored for alumni students to
fly to Denver to celebrate for our thirty fifth anniversary.
So we figured out who those students are. They're going
to fly in a couple of months to our big
cornhole tournament out there, and that would be a beautiful goal.
We love to do something like that, and we've had
(27:00):
students ask if they can, but right now it's not
in the budget.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Well, it takes a little bit of time to get
that money together. Okay, So we've talked about the things
that you do. How do people get involved? First of all,
you're a if you're a student or a parent. If
somebody wants to be involved, how do they sign up?
How do they find a chapter?
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Well, you would talk to whatever type of youth group
that your student is involved in. That can be a
school club, that can be any sort of organization that
you're involved in around town. That's who we work with directly.
So again we work with organizations like Youth Serve Girls, Inc,
Breakthrough Birmingham, and Huffman Outdoor Adventure Club. We also work
with Holy Family, Critsoure and build Up Birmingham. Those two
(27:40):
schools and Huffman all three are doing outdoor clubs.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
So if you have a student.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Who's interested and they can find a teacher sponsor who
might be interested in hosting a club like this, they
send them my way.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I'd be happy to give some consulting advice.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
And you've also got a website.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
I assume Yes, big City Mountaineers dot org and.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
You can probably google that and there's probably a Facebook
page something like that if we were to look for
Big City Mountaineers yes, dot org. Uh, Margaret, thank you
so much for joining us, and yeah, get out there
and enjoy. I mean, it's awfully hot. Do you do
anything in July? You don't do anything?
Speaker 4 (28:11):
No, we did last year, but it is so warm,
it's kind of rough. And our goal is to have
students want to re engage. Oh yeah, that's great, and
that's a tough sell.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, I was gonna say so maybe so definitely in
the spring, but maybe in the fall. You might have
some programming coming up.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Yeah, we're hoping to launch some some program in the fall,
and we will for sure be running again in the spring.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
You know, a great place to get down to. I
don't know if you've been down there or not, but
this is kind of in the down in the black Belt.
Is Alabama's first capital. Have you ever been down Yeah,
Cahaba and it w Cahaba. I know, yes, and it's
an incredible place to pike around. So you've been down there.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I haven't yet.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
I've actually looked at it as a potential area for
us to visit. We're talking about actually introducing canoeing as
part of our programming as well in the future. And
when we talk about doing that expedition, doing part of
the Cahaba down to the confluence and then doing a
tour in Cahabo would be really amazing.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
And you can also i mean this is more of
an urban thing, but you can go see Selma because
there's a lot of history there. So there's a lot
of history all through that part of the state.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
So absolutely, we have a cool opportunity coming. One of
our groups from Denver is coming to do a civil
rights trip next year and they want to do a
hike with us while they're here. So we're hoping to
combine the regions in that way and celebrate that history.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
And that's and that all sounds like a great thing
and opens minds because you can see history and you
can also see nature all at the same time.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Well they're often interconnected, and teach.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Them the difference between regular plants and poison ivy.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yes, yes, that's an important distinction.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Margaret Cartner, thank you so much for joining us this
week on Viewpoint Alabama.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
You've been listening to Viewpoint Alabama, a public affairs program
from the Alabama Radio Network. The opinions expressed on Viewpoint
Alabama are not necessarily those of the staff, management, or
advertisers of this station
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