August 24, 2025 • 46 mins
This week, we debate who New Zealand's best wicketkeeper is, and discuss a cricket website's selections.
New Zealand's cricket A team is set to head to South Africa on another development tour - and we speculate on whether Jacob Bethell is the answer as England’s new T20 captain.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:20):
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It's answering, it is out.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
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Speaker 1 (00:37):
On the front Put with Brian Wodell and Jeremy Cody,
powered by News Talks head B at iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hello Beck on the front Put. This week, I have
been to some time wasting in the absence of proper cricket.
A South Africa have won what now seems like a
one sided fifty other contest in Australia, even though South
Africa gave away four hundred and twenty one for three
in the last game, but the series was all over
(01:07):
by then. How did he on the A team on
its way to South Africa? A farewell to an I
was e legend. Who was or is our best wicket keeper? Well,
all that's on the front point. Yeah, I have to
own up. In the absence of some decent cricket to
watch or follow, I nearly fell over and watched some
(01:29):
one hundred on the TV, Jerry. But I've been reading
the social media cricket pages mainly, and I do understand
why people get frustrated at the anonymous plankers who share
their views without any justification. I know you wouldn't You'd
be reading the Financial Time, wouldn't you.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I always like to study those pages. I've got to
get my investments straight, as you well know, same as
you probably And I can tell you have been doing
the socials because you've lost a bit of hair. So
that's okay, now not that long. Well what sort of
socials have you been looking at?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Well, I've been. The interesting one has been the reaction
to them of Jacob Bethel as the T twenty captain
against Ireland. Now, some of the reaction I found has
been pretty reasonable. Is a fair point made by a
female journalist and a shave I don't know if you've
met her. She hopes for time for the BBC and
(02:26):
a website called The Cricket Paper, and she's obviously a
Somerset fan because she says that an all format player
that hasn't got one hundred in any of those formats
has been given the captaincy of the T twenties, while
James Rue of the same age has had eleven hundreds.
(02:47):
He's obviously a talent, but is this good for him
and what is the criteria for selection? Oh and by
the way, Rue is good on the golf course haha,
tongue and the cheek. But other respected commentators Mark Butcher
on the Wisden site says, well, he summed it up
like this.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
It's one of those ones that's quite difficult to explain
even somebody like me, let alone people who probably pay
a passing interest into English cricket or England's cricket teams. Therefore,
I don't really know what to make of it.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
I don't know whether it's a I think it's quite
a difficult thing to ask him to do, simply as
he has so much to learn and so much experience
to garner from merely being a player. You could argue
at every level, let alone at international level. But it's
also a sign that England see him as very much
as sort of a leading figure for them in the future.
(03:41):
The fact that they've arrived at a point where he
is at the future before he's actually had any sort
of past, and it's something that people will argue. The
toss about right the way up until such a time
as he starts playing more regularly for anybody.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Alone for and I think that's a fair point made
by Boych. I don't know if you've seen much of
his work on TV. I quite enjoy him as a
TV commentator. He's measured, he puts his case forward with
good balance to basically say towards the end there that
here's a guy in Jacob Bethel who's reached his future
(04:15):
without having a past or a present. Interesting line from
Mark Butcher.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, and a very fair one I think with respects
to captaincy and to playing. He's only had four tests,
not many ode Eyes, perhaps a few more t twenties
because the franchises. But very early, isn't it in his career.
I don't really quite know how to think about it.
The selectors, they presumably have seen something in the time
(04:45):
that Bethel's been around the England team. They say that
they've seen leadership qualities. Well, that's okay. That can be
different actually from captaining a team, you know, hundreds of
minor decisions that you make over a day's cricket and
picking for people for jobs on what you perceive to
(05:09):
be something in their character, which is I think what
they mean when they say leadership qualities and not on
past performance and results. I would think if I was
a selector, I'd say, well, I like him, but you know,
that would put me on high alert and it would
(05:31):
remind myself that I need to delve into his CV
a bit a bit more than just that I like
him and therefore I'm going to make him a captain.
So what is in his CV? First class captaincy how many?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Nothing?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
None? Under nineteen captain how many?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Not sure?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Have a guess none, T twenty blast captains captaincy none none.
Franchise cricket probably none none. So he's basically this Also
this year hardly he has played one first class game
(06:12):
and I think it was a partial game this season
and then the IPL and he's had an injury. And
I've got to say that the current regime, the basball regime,
if you like, They love to be seen as I
don't know, progressive. They like risk taking, they like to
be innovative and ahead of others. They want to be bold,
(06:35):
you know, and you know he's the youngest ever too,
or they've scored the fastest hundred ever. They may merely
be encouraging him. I don't know, they see a bit
of talent. He's obviously a teleogenic lad, looks great on
the screen, comes from rugby school. I think if you
(06:58):
were to go back and list the last maybe ten
to fifteen times when Jacob Bethel was a captain, you
would be putting down his school teams. It's as simple
as that. You'd be putting down captain when he was
at school, they say, they as I say, it's seen
(07:20):
leadership qualities at training. Well, I don't know what leadership
qualities do you see at a practice? Who bowls in
the nets? Is he going to come around the wicket?
Is he showing others how to take a high Catch's organized? Now? Yeah?
(07:42):
I mean causing you know, I don't know some made
up little sports games that they that they do. I
don't know. I wonder what Phil Salt, who's in that team?
Who is a captain of a T twenty kind of
Oh well, sorry, the one hundred Northern Spiders or something.
(08:02):
And Josh Butler's there. I mean, he won't mind him
being captain because he doesn't want to be now, but
he might have little quiet thoughts about it himself. I
just wonder whether it's they're just planning for the future,
you know, against the perceived easy game against Ireland now
that actually England should win even if he makes errands.
(08:25):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, that's fine. Planning for the future is about the
task that they're there for, isn't it. I mean Rob
Key and Bess McCallum and Ben Stokes will be moving
on in time that they have to plan for the future.
But I mean there are other players too who need
to be considered. I mean, they've done the wicket keeping issue,
haven't they. They've gone through probably their best wicket keeper,
(08:47):
who to my mind was Ben Folks, but he's not
good enough now to get in the England side. They've
been through a couple of others and finally settled on Smith.
Who think doesn't he keep for the same club that
Ben Folks plays for Surrey?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
He does, but he doesn't keep when Folks is playing.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, well there you go, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
But you see, this is a slightly more conservative kind
of approach, that we'll pick a wicket keeper first in
an a batsman second. That period seems to have changed
quite dramatically, hasn't it now? They're more concerned about the
runs they can get at number seven in the batting order.
And I'm a bit like I think what you were
(09:28):
saying about Mark Butcher, a slightly more conservative part of
me that feel a person, you know, he has to
kind of deserve not just for the rest of the
players and the team and not just for the selection,
but for himself as well. Do I deserve this? Am
(09:49):
I ready for this yet? And I've got to say,
you know, he's got so much to learn as a
player yet. And I think that's what Mark Butcher was
kind of talking about when he made that. I mean,
it's a nice quote, isn't it that he made, you know?
(10:09):
And he's when he's head, when he's had a few
more games, when he's learned about himself playing a bit more.
And so I don't know. I just wonder whether they're
just widening the range of people in their squad who's
had a chance to do things and can add to
the general kind of feeling in the side. And so
(10:32):
maybe that's why they've picked in. But well, we'll wait
and see, won't they If they go down one mill
in the first match, Because Ireland have beaten England before
ODIs and t twenties and what happens then that's going
to be interesting. So anyway, we'll wait.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Anison and it's not their front line side that he's
captaining either, so that's going to be the interesting factor
as well. I mean, I look at it the player.
He's obviously got talent, there's no doubt about that. He
came out here and played Test matches, but he's never
really been put under pressure at the top level, has he?
And it's how people respond under pressure, I think is
the determining factor on where they go along the track.
(11:11):
You've got to be able to play in all sorts
of conditions. It's happened in the New Zealand game. It's
happening now because we've got a lot of good young
players heading off to South Africa to take part in
the New Zealand A tour and the coach of that
side will join us in just a tick.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Brian Waddle Jeremy Coney on the front foot and.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
He's here on A cricket squad of fifteen has been
named for a five match tour of South Africa, following
on their performances in Bangladesh earlier this year. The fifteen
players chosen include three quarters ten of a number with
Black Caps experience. The captains will be Nick Kelly from Wellington,
(11:52):
the white ball captain and Joe Carter, the red ball
captain from Northern Districts. Now to be coached by Daniel Flynn.
And before we get onto the squad, Daniel, just congratulations
to you because I think that's the first event that
you've gone away with the national side, so to step
up for you as well, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
Yeah, yeah, it's obviously a great opportunity for me. It's
spend a bit of time with Northern Districts, coming into
my third season as assistant coach there, but yeah, first
opportunity as a head coach and then obviously leading a
New Zealand a side.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah. And the side you're going away with is very experienced,
first class wise. I mentioned the Black Caps reference as well,
A good balanced side with three that were in the
last two and not there you've still had another three
players come in. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:46):
Yeah, it's an exciting max. I think just shows the
depth that they we currently have in New Zealand cricket
and the guys with international experience, you know, that's invaluable
for the group and the rest of the guys to
feed off and learn off as well.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, and you mentioned depth. I think that's important these days,
isn't it, Because there's so much cricket going on the
world over, you need that depth for selection purposes.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (13:12):
Yeah, and I think that's the beauty of this a
program and the number of opportunity these guys are getting,
you know, to tour and experience foreign conditions, so when
they do get the or have to make the step
up to international cricket, you know they're not going in
or they're going in with their eyes open.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I suppose three players out from the last two that Jacobs,
Fisher and Keane have come in, and I suppose if
you look at our domestic competition at the moment, you
could say there's probably another five or six who would
not be out of place within that side, which just
highlights the depth we're talking about, doesn't it.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Yeah, there's still some guys around the
traps that are proven performers at domestic level. So yeah,
certainly tricky side to select. I'd imagine. I wasn't involved
in that process, but yeah, that's certainly a reflection of
the depth in the game.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, and some of them have had a fair bit
of cricket. I suppose you've been working with some of
them in terms of preparing them. Those who've been around
New Zealand and have been overseas playing in tournaments. I
don't know how many of them it would be.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Yeah, We've had a couple of camps in Napier over
the last month, so probably nine or ten of the
guys have been around. But yeah, like you said, there's
a lot of guys involved in cricket, whether it be
with the Black Caps or even some guys over in
the UK with club opportunities. So yeah, which I think
holds them in good stead. Obviously coming into competition once
(14:38):
we get over to South Africa.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
The challenge there for you too as a coach, because
this side has been well performed. You know, when you
go right back to India, what three years ago, they
performed well even though they were beaten in one of
the four day games and lost the one day as Australia,
Bangladesh and other sides that they've played. There's a real
(15:00):
quality of performance, isn't here.
Speaker 6 (15:02):
Yeah, Yeah, So yeah, hopefully we can continue that on
once we get to South Africa. But yeah, at the
quality that we have in the group, I can't see
why not.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Ye. The program that the A side of hand has
been a good one. The challenge of this, of course,
is there's a fifteen man squad and you've got to
break them up into one day and four day cricketers.
Is there specialists in either of those games? Or do
you just have to move the players around. It's a
matter of picking guys and using your squad rather than
(15:34):
your best possible side every game.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
Yeah, I think that's a good point. It is about
opportunity and guys getting getting that across both formats. So
that's sort of the I guess philosophy around these tours,
and it's exposing as many of the guys in the
squad to the conditions in different formats. So yeah, yeah,
(15:57):
there's certainly not I guess the first eleven picked as such,
it's a bit of an opportunity to expose the entire squad.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, it's not all on you either. You've got some
experience to coaching staff around you.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
Yeah, I'm fortunate to have Bob Carter and Graham Aldridge
with me, so I'll certainly be leaning on them from
time time to time. With obviously the amount of experience
that they have at the.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Top level, sides would know what they're up against. In
South Africa, they see them quite often. Do you know
anything about what you're facing in terms of the South
African opposition?
Speaker 6 (16:36):
Yeah, Yeah, we've been fortunate to get get a bit
of information on them, so yeah. And there's there's some
handy cricketers in their group obviously, and the depth of
their programs was obviously on display with them taking out
the World Test Championship, so we know we're going to
be coming up against some quality players, which obviously makes
it pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
As a coach. Do things change when you get away
on two you're probably doing things and working on specific
skills with players when you're in camps, but of course
when you're away you don't want to changing people. Do
you just have to develop what they've come with.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (17:14):
I think once you get away on tour, it's more
about getting them prepared for the game. So yeah, the
work's been done through the winter obviously that any technical
bits and pieces that they've focused on, but it's more
about getting them ready for the performance aspect of it.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
You're taking a couple of guys who made an impression
on the tour of Zimbabwe in Fisher and also Zach Fuchs,
and they will be important because they reached pretty high
levels of performance in Zimbabwe. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (17:51):
Yeah, a couple of exciting, young, talented players that are
coming through in New Zealand cricket and obviously, like we
discussed before, you know, they've shown that they're more than
capable of making that step up to the international level.
So it's going to be great to have them in
the group and looking forward to seeing what they bring
to the tape.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yes, you're no Fisher through Northern districts contacts. He's also
had injury issues that haven't allowed him to develop to
the extent that you would like because he's pretty sharp.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's Yeah, he's obviously been a little
bit unfortunate with a few injuries, so hopefully he's through
the other side of that now. But yeah, certainly an
exciting prospect with the ability to get the ball through it,
you know that one forty k now, which is very exciting.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, and at the top level that's important to be
able to generate that pace, but also to be able
to do something with the ball. Pace alone doesn't do it,
does it?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
No?
Speaker 6 (18:48):
No, And he's yeah, he's worked very hard on his skills,
you know, the ability to swing the ball. But yeah,
I think the pace obviously complements the rest of our
attack quite nicely.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
What about conditions you're playing, I think in Pretoria and Pachastrom,
there's one game in Patchastrum in four games in Pretoria.
You've got a bit of experience having played their ten
twelve years ago in South Africa, but you probably add
up to date with the way things are going. You
don't check on the conditions.
Speaker 6 (19:17):
Yeah, a little bit like obviously that time of year,
are coming out of their winter as well, so you
know it's not your traditional conditions that you'd get in
South Africa. So I guess the key is adapting pretty
quickly to what's in front of us.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
And altitude, I spoke, pays part as well in terms
of being up near Johannesburg Pretoria area. I don't know
about Potchesteram, but altitude shaps the energy of it, doesn't it.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And like I said earlier, I think
that's the benefit of these tours. Guys start to get
accustomed to these foreign conditions and how they deal with it.
But I know they're all very fit, strong, so hopefully
that holds us in good stead.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Does winning become more important than development? I know everybody
wants to win, but the development of the players and
their skills is that more important than winning? How do
you rate those two situations we talked about earlier.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Yeah, Like my view is it's a bit of a
balancing act with this program. Obviously, Eron goes there to win.
You know, that's natural, they're professional athletes. But yeah, it's
as I've mentioned, it's about the opportunity to develop these players,
help them evolve their games, so when they do get
more opportunities at the next level, they feel very comfortable
(20:34):
and confident.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
What about you, how do you feel about coaching now
as a career. I suppose you've got to develop your
skills as well, don't you At the top level when
you get this opportunity.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's pretty exciting for me. I'm
only three or four years into it now, so I'm
certainly learning a lot as I go, and I guess
this is another opportunity to bank some experience and learn
learn plenty, and like I mentioned, earlier. Fortunate to have
guys like Bob Carter and Graham Aldridge there that have
done plenty of work at this level, so I'll be
(21:06):
leaning on them.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Your depth its important in coaching too. We talk off
on about players, but you know, the ability to coach
and the programs that New Zealand Cricket are doing in
terms of coaching coaches to be able to coach are
significant now because of the challenges that coaches face.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
Yeah, yeah, we're fortunate at New Zealand Cricket. There's a
lot of emphasis put into helping develop coaches. So it's
just about taking the opportunities I suppose, and you're always
looking to learn and get better, just I guess as
a player, so there's a lot of similarities there.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Well, we'll be keeping close eye on how things are
going over there while you're in Cha. It's only sort
of about three weeks in totals. In the first game
starting on Saturday, is a one day and the players,
I suppose we'll be looking to try and prepare themselves
for home conditions because first October they'll be back and
they'll be straight into some of it, possibly playing internationals
(22:04):
against Australia.
Speaker 6 (22:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well fingers cross. It's a quick turnaround
for some them and they're involved in that series. But yeah,
ideal leader.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
If that is the case, well all the very best.
Hope things go well for you and we'll see how
you've assessed it when it's all finished, Thank you very much.
So Daniel Flynn is taking a side that features well
all but three of the side that performed well in
Bangladesh and there's three new players and they probably get
(22:33):
there because of form. Fisher was a success in the
Test match series in Zimbabwe. Jacobs has been marked down
as a talent and he's getting an opportunity. And Keen,
as Sir Daniel Flynn says, is a bit of an
all rounder and a useful sort of player and a
good chance. This is the sort of chance we want
(22:54):
to see these players. This is where you want to
develop your talent. And I think the New Zealand Cricket
and the selection panel Jerry have done a great job
in terms of keeping the consistency about these players and
giving the developing talent these opportunities which probably haven't been
there in the past.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
And as you pointed out, also the coaches was. You know,
Daniel Footen has been around a bit, but now he
gets a better, bigger chance, an opportunity. Same for the players.
But the first thing I would say, looking at the side,
their names we know and that's what your point. There's
a consistency about the people that they are choosing beneath
(23:37):
the black Caps. And they've now had games in New
Zealand against Australia. They've played in Australia, they've played in India,
they've played in Bangladesh, now to South Africa. And this
is what I think those of us who follow the
game have been calling for, isn't it for so many years?
(23:58):
Let's develop this group of players beneath our top players,
because you know, New Zealand is a side that contains
mature players, experienced players, and that's good, but that they
are going to finish and their finished will come at
some point. You know, you're not rushing, they're not rushing away,
(24:21):
but new players will be needed. And so it's so
much better that we've got a group of players who
have been to all these places I've just mentioned, and
that they have got built up some opportunities and some
runs and some experiences that they will be better players
because it won't be an easy to awards. They're coming
(24:42):
out of winter there. I think that Daniel mentioned spicy pictures.
They'll have very good quicks, I would think, and they'll
have decent batsmen and that's quite a potent combination. And
that's how South Africa have been for some time. So
a good test for these players. A lot of them
have played ODI's and T twenties for New Zealand, some
(25:07):
of them new ones have played Test matches and we've
got some others who are pushing the boundaries trying to
get in as well. And they reside in the side
and the squad. So good to see those named wads happy.
He was watching that and boy, it'll be interesting watching
how they go.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, and they've got a record that they will want
to preserve as well as you say, performed well in India, Bangladesh,
Australia and at home here. And you know, many of
those players may not go past this level. I mean
I look at guys like Kelly and Carter and Nick
Kelly was the top run scorer in domestic first class
(25:45):
cricket last season, yet he's only made short form teams
for New Zealand, but as a confident player is in
his early thirties now and those opportunities may by pass them.
But you're right about the depth we need those players
because oh, an IPL contract could come along and somebody
doesn't want a contract for New Zealand, and have you
(26:06):
got anybody to replace them? To do the same with
our coaches as I mentioned, and Daniel Flynt has got
experience at playing at the top level and now he's
getting the experience he needs to take him further.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
YEP. Can't disagree with any of that. So let's see
how they go. Let's see how they go. Hope they
wish them well and hope that you know, a few
of them come back being better players. That's really what
we want, isn't it. That they've got They know about
the conditions in South Africa. They've they've faced some different bowlers,
(26:39):
they've they've had to confront bowling to batsmen who seemed
too good for them to get out. But they work
a way and work away and try and solve problems.
So just like I mean that left armor that's got
that's come from CD that that was in Bangladesh. I
can't remember his name offhand. I haven't got the names
(26:59):
in front of me, sorry, Lennox. Yeah, and you know
that he learns to land the ball not just accurately
on the same spot on the pitch, but he can
get it to that same place with different flights, and
so he could be flatter and still hit that point.
He could be up in the air and down again
(27:20):
on the same point. He can get an arm ball
coming in on the same point, then we've really got
a bowler. So those are all the sorts of things
he'll need to start to think about and to learn
and to practice.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yes, indeed, and they'll be doing that coming up Saturday
of their first game against South Africa. They're playing in
Victoria and Potchefstrom. We're going to talk a little wicket
keeping in just a moment before we move on to
the question of wicket keeping. Some sad news. I don't
know how well you knew Bob Simpson, Jerry, but he
(27:53):
died just recently and a man who I guess you
could put him in the iconic Australian cricketer class. He
really committed his life to the game in Australia. He
died at the age of eighty nine. Had a good
innings as such, but he committed himself. I mean, he's
a man. He went ten years without playing Test cricket
(28:15):
just because he retired and then Kerry Packers circus came
along and he had to come back and take on
the captaincy of the side at the age of forty one.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yeah, he's a key figure, isn't he. Towards the you know,
the sort of the seventies. He started playing for Australia
in the fifties, he was under you know Beno, of
course he was his vice captain. What a supreme slip fieldsman.
He was getting almost one catch per innings, not per match,
(28:48):
per innings over his sixty two Tests, one hundred and
one hundred and something or other catchers one hundred and ten.
Maybe fantastic first slipper, not just to the quicks but
also to spin a man, as you say, pivotal figure.
(29:10):
Then he became captain after Beno, and he then paired
up with Bill Lourie who then became his He became
a captain himself. Then he had the break once he retired,
as you say, ten years working for pr firm media.
One of the first to do that. Maybe from the
players of the game who have moved into the media
(29:32):
a bit once and then you know, then suddenly you
know was a hand up, wasn't he? With their World
Series Cricket going on, Please come back, please come back,
And he did as captain for a couple of series.
(29:52):
Was dropped after those two series prematurely really when they
went to the West Indies and I think players like
Croft Roberts Garner, no one beat the West Indies away
that time in those years, and he didn't score many runs,
but they got rid of it. And then in came
(30:13):
a succession of captains like Yallop and Cohen Hughes and
so on, and so he then came back later on
as a coach, didn't he, And after they had lost
lots of games over a period, and Border was the
captain at that time, and he over the two years
(30:39):
and Border was known as his nickname Grumpy. He and
A Simpson formed a formidable pairing just at the time
of the game when you know, data, lots of computer work,
lots of figures were being thrown out at players and
(31:00):
at coaches. He was more of the old sort of
coach who taught traditionally about the skills of batting, the
techniques of batting and the fielding. I remember him actually
on a Someone asked him once there was a radio
interview that I heard, Bob you were you were an opener. Uh,
(31:26):
you had have faced all the fasties over the years.
Who would you say, Bob was the fastest you ever faced?
Sheer speed? Bob, you know? And he sort of answered, well,
you probably won't know this name. He's a New Zealander,
(31:50):
Gary Bartlett. At he said was like lightning. And I
remember asking Gary when I was interviewing him for that
TV show, I said, can you remember bowling to the Aussies?
That He said, you know you have days Jeremy when
(32:14):
things go right in your rhythm's there And he said
I had him jump in that day and he really
remembered that. You could see his smile and came back
to him. And but you know, Simmo was he would
have faced all the bowlers wads for in England. That
(32:35):
would have been Titmuss and Statham and Bailey and Laker
and Locke for the for their South Africans who were
playing then still Heini and ad Cock and Pollock, Hugh Tayfield.
Then you go through interesting he played at the time
of the Chuckers, didn't he Meccas, Gordon Rourke, Tony Locke, Griffith,
(32:59):
all those. And yet right at the end of his
career he joined the ICC and he was very much
against the developed you know, the proliferation of people who
had bad actions and wanted to fix that and complained
about the ICC for not doing anything about it. So
he would have played all those I was We's Hall, Valentine, Ramaden, Sobers, Griffiths, Gibbs,
(33:24):
you know all those players. And you know, while he
struggled in the first part of his career, the second
part he kind of averaged along with Lourie. They used
to get sixty runs and innings those openers and he
was captain for thirty nine Tests. Was Bob Simpson, so
look a very key figure. I think in the game
(33:48):
in Australia that he built a formidable side with Border
they won that eighty seven World Cup. I think it
was in India, wasn't it India? And you know then
he got a young side and instilled the hard edge,
you know, the Steve war the Boon, the Jones now
(34:08):
Dean Jones, the McDermott's you know, and he made a
made a good side. So what a figure he was
in different in different times and in different you know,
parts of the game formats te Man.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
YEP high score and Test Cricket three hundred and eleven
that was in.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
First Test was Yeah, that was his first Test hundred
at Manchester sixty four to sixty five. Yeah, and a
drawn game nevertheless. Yeah, but he got out trying to
get on with the game. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
And he featured in the partnership of three hundred and
eighty two for the opening stand against the West Indies
in Barbados, against that much vaunted West Indies attacks three
hundred and eighty two. Both he and Laurie got double hundreds.
They scored six to fifty six and I think the
West and he scored six hundred and eleven. Thanks very much, guys.
(35:08):
Game over a lovely man, Bob Simpson and we remember
whom finally passed away at the age of eighty nine,
sadly missed. We end this week highlighting my well messing
around in cricket media social accounts. On Facebook. There's an
(35:30):
account called Cricket Zone and they put up a posting
New Zealand's top wicket keepers. That's why I say who
were they? They've got five pictures of them. The goat,
greatest of all time, not a goat. They've got Brendon McCallum, legend,
They've got b J. Whittling, world class, adam PERORI, iconic
(35:55):
Tom Blundell and great Gareth Hopkins remember him, played a
couple of games for New Zealand. I'm sorry, I disagree.
You can't pick a group of wicket keepers without the
name Smith, Petrie, Ward, Dick, Wadsworth, Lee's and the numbers
(36:16):
go on, where do you sit on those, Jerry, because
you've played alongside some of the great wicket keepers that
we produced in New Zealand cricket.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Yeah, I started wads with Ken Wadsworth, a very very supportive,
encouraging man. Gave to the team very positive great ball
hand eye coordination. Stood back a bit more because New
Zealand's attack in those days. You know where the two Hadleys,
Richard and Dale. He had Richard Collins, of course, he
(36:46):
had kids. He had Bruce Taylor, Murray Webb, those kinds
of players. So he was back behind the stumps. Hell
of a good against them and take some of the
catches he took, but he was used to also standing
up a bit. David O'Sullivan played for CD, and of
course Hedley Howard's was the New Zealand left arm spinner
(37:09):
in those days as well, so he is quite comfortable
with that. Then Wally Wally came along and a keeper
and a captain. Now that's not easy. You don't see
many of those tough job, great team man. Wally very
comfortable standing up with bocky embraces, and Peter Petherick member him.
Good tour of seventy six, I think in the subcontinent
(37:32):
as well. Yeah, but you know. And then the Smithy,
of course was the majority of the period that I played.
But I have a suspicion. A lot of people look
at the dismissals, they look at the number of catchers,
they look at the stumpings, they check their batting average
and they say, yeah, he's the goat. I'm not sure
about that. He was a good keeper and they all
(37:54):
the names you gave me probably were, but from my
experience I wouldn't have listed those. I personally think that
some of the names I mean Smith because I knew
and watched him. John Johnny Ward Johnny Ward, timrou You know,
(38:16):
he was in the nineteen fifty eight side, and they
actually named him in the in the final game of
the tour, which wasn't a Test match but was like
a fifth Test match, they named him against the New
Zealand because they thought he was so outstanding. That's over
in England and so. But I think the thing to
me is, if I can for a second, would you
(38:36):
regard them as the central figure in the field, the
wicket keeper, Well, I think.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
People do, don't they, because they basically provide all the
info of line length, pace in terms of what's going
on out in the middle for the skipper, don't they
and the bowler. That is, to my mind, what the
partnership and pairing is about.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Isn't it absolutely the they? When you think of the
cricket transaction, say the bowler starts to the batsman, but
it's always aimed at the keeper. He has to expect
every ball of the day, every piece of action. So
that's about over five hundred deep squats a day, the
(39:22):
matter how hot it is, the matter how cold, and
he's holding his balance every day. In New Zealand, probably
he's the one fielder who takes probably more catches than
anyone else. The high ones off the top edge that
he has to turn and run leg side, ones going low,
(39:44):
diving low to the sides, and so on. Some he
gets both hands to. Some just one he's stopping. Buys
he delivers the coup de gras, and the majority of runouts.
He kind of makes a team appear good. You know,
he camouflages poor returns. He makes it look a good return.
(40:08):
He picks it up on the half volley. You know,
he adds a bit of color. He's tidying up all
those things. He's running up to the stumps. Most balls,
he's tidying up from defensive prods. He runs around the
batsman to do that. Even if he drops a chance, wadds.
He's got to get and remain enthusiastic about the team.
(40:29):
He can't waver. His sort of enthusiasm and his concentration
can't waver, even though he's sort of got a bit disappointed,
as you say. He helps the bowler, you know, encourages them.
You're hitting the gloves well today, Pow. Your wrist's looking
good from here. Your front arm looks strong. Keep it
(40:49):
up there. You're nice and tall. You know, he's talking
little words about movement and length to the bowler, and
I recall Smith he actually talking you and I write
in commentary in India and Paddles is one short of
his world record if you remember that eight And I
(41:10):
remember him having a chat to Richard at the end
of an over and looking at ball marks on the
pitch where the balls landed. Look, you're beating the you're
beating the bat paddles. But I reckon if you're another
foot up and paddles was good enough, he could change that,
and two overs later j Hadley had the world record
caught in the slips. And that's where a keeper comes
(41:33):
in that you don't kind of notice unless you're watching closely.
And the captain, you know how much movement, how much
movements he getting is he's hitting the hands. And sometimes
you're wanting, in fact, to get your pace bowler more wads,
and you quite deliberately say let's all move upper pace,
(41:55):
and the old fast bowler thinks, like, hell you are,
I'm I'm going to push them back now, and so
you get more pace from him. Those kinds of things
the keeper does, And then of course there's the bat
that we know. But look, we could go on about
keeping a long time. But I think of people like
(42:17):
when I was playing and when you were playing you
he was on your side, Silvery McMahon, Trevor McMahon in
the fifties. Wards, I reckon he's the oldest living Test
cricketer now, is he? You know he used to stand
up to Bruce Taylor who was playing for New Zealand yep,
(42:37):
and stump people down league side as you overbalanced. But
I think some of the names you know over the
Ken Wadsworth that I meant John Ward, I've mentioned again,
Eric Petrie, Ian Smith, I think I think they're just
just as equal as any of those people that you
have named.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Actually, yeah, I think you can get caught up with
the greatest of all time because everyone has done a
significant job in their era. And I suppose it is
a business of the era that you are playing because
things change, pictures change, balls change, yes, and change. But
we've been we've been well served. I would be hard
(43:20):
pressed to put Brendan McCullum in the greatest of all time,
but I don't know who I would put the ahead of.
I mean, the one wiki keeper I saw for being
esthetically pleasing as the keeper was adam PERORI I thought
he was an outstanding government. But you know that was
just one skill. There are so many skills involved in
(43:41):
keeping wicket, isn't he.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Oh yes, to keep, to keep the whole side. You know,
it's not the it's not the chin chundering. You hear
nowadays that that really matters much. We all know, come on, boys,
we're in here. Well, we're all looking to do that
actually all the time. But it's a little word here,
a little word there, as I say to the bowler,
(44:04):
to the captain, helping things out and keeping things going,
not just after two sessions, because any keeper can do that,
but after five, after five in the field and it's
and it's bloody hot or in still absolutely so. Look,
I'm I'm a bit like you. I don't like having
(44:26):
these these titles that people want to give too keepers.
They all do the work, they do it the best
they can. They're just doing their best, the same as
everybody else.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
All Right, we'll end that discussion there, and I'm just
putting aside the best second slippers that New Zealand and
see if I can get any or people to come
forward with.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Those Bob Simpson was so good he would take second slippers.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Well yeah, and I'm talking about this he didn't.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
That's right. Yeah, think about that, Jerry. I might see
if we can find something out over there.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Hey, well I've got a suggestion.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Okay, what's save them for next week? Right? I get
the Financial Times out mate, and keep off the social
cricket web pages.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
All right, I will, mate, I will thank you very much,
and I'm looking forward. I'm heading back your way next week.
So it's been good time over here, seeing some good
cricket with India and England and and some not so
good cricket at times. That's always the way. But looking
forward to coming home.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Look, weather has been lovely summer's day in Wellington and
we've had a few of them over the last few days.
So you know, if it feels like that and Wellington,
that must be good around the country. Good trip, handel,
sleep well.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
You'll be good ones. Just get out and do those lawns. Boy,
I know what's there like on the egg like that
you have to get one league long and the obum exactly.
Good trip home, hate all right, take.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Care of.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Summer.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
For more from News Talk set B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk Sat B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on
iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah, take another pat Now we got a bill.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Get in.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
It's answering, it is out.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
The test is over, smooth, it was a beauty.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
It is out.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Here he goes this delivery has a un used to bowl.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
On the front Put with Brian Wodell and Jeremy Cody,
powered by News Talks head B at iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hello Beck on the front Put. This week, I have
been to some time wasting in the absence of proper cricket.
A South Africa have won what now seems like a
one sided fifty other contest in Australia, even though South
Africa gave away four hundred and twenty one for three
in the last game, but the series was all over
(01:07):
by then. How did he on the A team on
its way to South Africa? A farewell to an I
was e legend. Who was or is our best wicket keeper? Well,
all that's on the front point. Yeah, I have to
own up. In the absence of some decent cricket to
watch or follow, I nearly fell over and watched some
(01:29):
one hundred on the TV, Jerry. But I've been reading
the social media cricket pages mainly, and I do understand
why people get frustrated at the anonymous plankers who share
their views without any justification. I know you wouldn't You'd
be reading the Financial Time, wouldn't you.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I always like to study those pages. I've got to
get my investments straight, as you well know, same as
you probably And I can tell you have been doing
the socials because you've lost a bit of hair. So
that's okay, now not that long. Well what sort of
socials have you been looking at?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Well, I've been. The interesting one has been the reaction
to them of Jacob Bethel as the T twenty captain
against Ireland. Now, some of the reaction I found has
been pretty reasonable. Is a fair point made by a
female journalist and a shave I don't know if you've
met her. She hopes for time for the BBC and
(02:26):
a website called The Cricket Paper, and she's obviously a
Somerset fan because she says that an all format player
that hasn't got one hundred in any of those formats
has been given the captaincy of the T twenties, while
James Rue of the same age has had eleven hundreds.
(02:47):
He's obviously a talent, but is this good for him
and what is the criteria for selection? Oh and by
the way, Rue is good on the golf course haha,
tongue and the cheek. But other respected commentators Mark Butcher
on the Wisden site says, well, he summed it up
like this.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
It's one of those ones that's quite difficult to explain
even somebody like me, let alone people who probably pay
a passing interest into English cricket or England's cricket teams. Therefore,
I don't really know what to make of it.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
I don't know whether it's a I think it's quite
a difficult thing to ask him to do, simply as
he has so much to learn and so much experience
to garner from merely being a player. You could argue
at every level, let alone at international level. But it's
also a sign that England see him as very much
as sort of a leading figure for them in the future.
(03:41):
The fact that they've arrived at a point where he
is at the future before he's actually had any sort
of past, and it's something that people will argue. The
toss about right the way up until such a time
as he starts playing more regularly for anybody.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Alone for and I think that's a fair point made
by Boych. I don't know if you've seen much of
his work on TV. I quite enjoy him as a
TV commentator. He's measured, he puts his case forward with
good balance to basically say towards the end there that
here's a guy in Jacob Bethel who's reached his future
(04:15):
without having a past or a present. Interesting line from
Mark Butcher.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, and a very fair one I think with respects
to captaincy and to playing. He's only had four tests,
not many ode Eyes, perhaps a few more t twenties
because the franchises. But very early, isn't it in his career.
I don't really quite know how to think about it.
The selectors, they presumably have seen something in the time
(04:45):
that Bethel's been around the England team. They say that
they've seen leadership qualities. Well, that's okay. That can be
different actually from captaining a team, you know, hundreds of
minor decisions that you make over a day's cricket and
picking for people for jobs on what you perceive to
(05:09):
be something in their character, which is I think what
they mean when they say leadership qualities and not on
past performance and results. I would think if I was
a selector, I'd say, well, I like him, but you know,
that would put me on high alert and it would
(05:31):
remind myself that I need to delve into his CV
a bit a bit more than just that I like
him and therefore I'm going to make him a captain.
So what is in his CV? First class captaincy how many?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Nothing?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
None? Under nineteen captain how many?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Not sure?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Have a guess none, T twenty blast captains captaincy none none.
Franchise cricket probably none none. So he's basically this Also
this year hardly he has played one first class game
(06:12):
and I think it was a partial game this season
and then the IPL and he's had an injury. And
I've got to say that the current regime, the basball regime,
if you like, They love to be seen as I
don't know, progressive. They like risk taking, they like to
be innovative and ahead of others. They want to be bold,
(06:35):
you know, and you know he's the youngest ever too,
or they've scored the fastest hundred ever. They may merely
be encouraging him. I don't know, they see a bit
of talent. He's obviously a teleogenic lad, looks great on
the screen, comes from rugby school. I think if you
(06:58):
were to go back and list the last maybe ten
to fifteen times when Jacob Bethel was a captain, you
would be putting down his school teams. It's as simple
as that. You'd be putting down captain when he was
at school, they say, they as I say, it's seen
(07:20):
leadership qualities at training. Well, I don't know what leadership
qualities do you see at a practice? Who bowls in
the nets? Is he going to come around the wicket?
Is he showing others how to take a high Catch's organized? Now? Yeah?
(07:42):
I mean causing you know, I don't know some made
up little sports games that they that they do. I
don't know. I wonder what Phil Salt, who's in that team?
Who is a captain of a T twenty kind of
Oh well, sorry, the one hundred Northern Spiders or something.
(08:02):
And Josh Butler's there. I mean, he won't mind him
being captain because he doesn't want to be now, but
he might have little quiet thoughts about it himself. I
just wonder whether it's they're just planning for the future,
you know, against the perceived easy game against Ireland now
that actually England should win even if he makes errands.
(08:25):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, that's fine. Planning for the future is about the
task that they're there for, isn't it. I mean Rob
Key and Bess McCallum and Ben Stokes will be moving
on in time that they have to plan for the future.
But I mean there are other players too who need
to be considered. I mean, they've done the wicket keeping issue,
haven't they. They've gone through probably their best wicket keeper,
(08:47):
who to my mind was Ben Folks, but he's not
good enough now to get in the England side. They've
been through a couple of others and finally settled on Smith.
Who think doesn't he keep for the same club that
Ben Folks plays for Surrey?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
He does, but he doesn't keep when Folks is playing.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, well there you go, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
But you see, this is a slightly more conservative kind
of approach, that we'll pick a wicket keeper first in
an a batsman second. That period seems to have changed
quite dramatically, hasn't it now? They're more concerned about the
runs they can get at number seven in the batting order.
And I'm a bit like I think what you were
(09:28):
saying about Mark Butcher, a slightly more conservative part of
me that feel a person, you know, he has to
kind of deserve not just for the rest of the
players and the team and not just for the selection,
but for himself as well. Do I deserve this? Am
(09:49):
I ready for this yet? And I've got to say,
you know, he's got so much to learn as a
player yet. And I think that's what Mark Butcher was
kind of talking about when he made that. I mean,
it's a nice quote, isn't it that he made, you know?
(10:09):
And he's when he's head, when he's had a few
more games, when he's learned about himself playing a bit more.
And so I don't know. I just wonder whether they're
just widening the range of people in their squad who's
had a chance to do things and can add to
the general kind of feeling in the side. And so
(10:32):
maybe that's why they've picked in. But well, we'll wait
and see, won't they If they go down one mill
in the first match, Because Ireland have beaten England before
ODIs and t twenties and what happens then that's going
to be interesting. So anyway, we'll wait.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Anison and it's not their front line side that he's
captaining either, so that's going to be the interesting factor
as well. I mean, I look at it the player.
He's obviously got talent, there's no doubt about that. He
came out here and played Test matches, but he's never
really been put under pressure at the top level, has he?
And it's how people respond under pressure, I think is
the determining factor on where they go along the track.
(11:11):
You've got to be able to play in all sorts
of conditions. It's happened in the New Zealand game. It's
happening now because we've got a lot of good young
players heading off to South Africa to take part in
the New Zealand A tour and the coach of that
side will join us in just a tick.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Brian Waddle Jeremy Coney on the front foot and.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
He's here on A cricket squad of fifteen has been
named for a five match tour of South Africa, following
on their performances in Bangladesh earlier this year. The fifteen
players chosen include three quarters ten of a number with
Black Caps experience. The captains will be Nick Kelly from Wellington,
(11:52):
the white ball captain and Joe Carter, the red ball
captain from Northern Districts. Now to be coached by Daniel Flynn.
And before we get onto the squad, Daniel, just congratulations
to you because I think that's the first event that
you've gone away with the national side, so to step
up for you as well, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
Yeah, yeah, it's obviously a great opportunity for me. It's
spend a bit of time with Northern Districts, coming into
my third season as assistant coach there, but yeah, first
opportunity as a head coach and then obviously leading a
New Zealand a side.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah. And the side you're going away with is very experienced,
first class wise. I mentioned the Black Caps reference as well,
A good balanced side with three that were in the
last two and not there you've still had another three
players come in. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:46):
Yeah, it's an exciting max. I think just shows the
depth that they we currently have in New Zealand cricket
and the guys with international experience, you know, that's invaluable
for the group and the rest of the guys to
feed off and learn off as well.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, and you mentioned depth. I think that's important these days,
isn't it, Because there's so much cricket going on the
world over, you need that depth for selection purposes.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (13:12):
Yeah, and I think that's the beauty of this a
program and the number of opportunity these guys are getting,
you know, to tour and experience foreign conditions, so when
they do get the or have to make the step
up to international cricket, you know they're not going in
or they're going in with their eyes open.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I suppose three players out from the last two that Jacobs,
Fisher and Keane have come in, and I suppose if
you look at our domestic competition at the moment, you
could say there's probably another five or six who would
not be out of place within that side, which just
highlights the depth we're talking about, doesn't it.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Yeah, there's still some guys around the
traps that are proven performers at domestic level. So yeah,
certainly tricky side to select. I'd imagine. I wasn't involved
in that process, but yeah, that's certainly a reflection of
the depth in the game.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, and some of them have had a fair bit
of cricket. I suppose you've been working with some of
them in terms of preparing them. Those who've been around
New Zealand and have been overseas playing in tournaments. I
don't know how many of them it would be.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Yeah, We've had a couple of camps in Napier over
the last month, so probably nine or ten of the
guys have been around. But yeah, like you said, there's
a lot of guys involved in cricket, whether it be
with the Black Caps or even some guys over in
the UK with club opportunities. So yeah, which I think
holds them in good stead. Obviously coming into competition once
(14:38):
we get over to South Africa.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
The challenge there for you too as a coach, because
this side has been well performed. You know, when you
go right back to India, what three years ago, they
performed well even though they were beaten in one of
the four day games and lost the one day as Australia,
Bangladesh and other sides that they've played. There's a real
(15:00):
quality of performance, isn't here.
Speaker 6 (15:02):
Yeah, Yeah, So yeah, hopefully we can continue that on
once we get to South Africa. But yeah, at the
quality that we have in the group, I can't see
why not.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Ye. The program that the A side of hand has
been a good one. The challenge of this, of course,
is there's a fifteen man squad and you've got to
break them up into one day and four day cricketers.
Is there specialists in either of those games? Or do
you just have to move the players around. It's a
matter of picking guys and using your squad rather than
(15:34):
your best possible side every game.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
Yeah, I think that's a good point. It is about
opportunity and guys getting getting that across both formats. So
that's sort of the I guess philosophy around these tours,
and it's exposing as many of the guys in the
squad to the conditions in different formats. So yeah, yeah,
(15:57):
there's certainly not I guess the first eleven picked as such,
it's a bit of an opportunity to expose the entire squad.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, it's not all on you either. You've got some
experience to coaching staff around you.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
Yeah, I'm fortunate to have Bob Carter and Graham Aldridge
with me, so I'll certainly be leaning on them from
time time to time. With obviously the amount of experience
that they have at the.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Top level, sides would know what they're up against. In
South Africa, they see them quite often. Do you know
anything about what you're facing in terms of the South
African opposition?
Speaker 6 (16:36):
Yeah, Yeah, we've been fortunate to get get a bit
of information on them, so yeah. And there's there's some
handy cricketers in their group obviously, and the depth of
their programs was obviously on display with them taking out
the World Test Championship, so we know we're going to
be coming up against some quality players, which obviously makes
it pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
As a coach. Do things change when you get away
on two you're probably doing things and working on specific
skills with players when you're in camps, but of course
when you're away you don't want to changing people. Do
you just have to develop what they've come with.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (17:14):
I think once you get away on tour, it's more
about getting them prepared for the game. So yeah, the
work's been done through the winter obviously that any technical
bits and pieces that they've focused on, but it's more
about getting them ready for the performance aspect of it.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
You're taking a couple of guys who made an impression
on the tour of Zimbabwe in Fisher and also Zach Fuchs,
and they will be important because they reached pretty high
levels of performance in Zimbabwe. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (17:51):
Yeah, a couple of exciting, young, talented players that are
coming through in New Zealand cricket and obviously, like we
discussed before, you know, they've shown that they're more than
capable of making that step up to the international level.
So it's going to be great to have them in
the group and looking forward to seeing what they bring
to the tape.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yes, you're no Fisher through Northern districts contacts. He's also
had injury issues that haven't allowed him to develop to
the extent that you would like because he's pretty sharp.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's Yeah, he's obviously been a little
bit unfortunate with a few injuries, so hopefully he's through
the other side of that now. But yeah, certainly an
exciting prospect with the ability to get the ball through it,
you know that one forty k now, which is very exciting.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, and at the top level that's important to be
able to generate that pace, but also to be able
to do something with the ball. Pace alone doesn't do it,
does it?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
No?
Speaker 6 (18:48):
No, And he's yeah, he's worked very hard on his skills,
you know, the ability to swing the ball. But yeah,
I think the pace obviously complements the rest of our
attack quite nicely.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
What about conditions you're playing, I think in Pretoria and Pachastrom,
there's one game in Patchastrum in four games in Pretoria.
You've got a bit of experience having played their ten
twelve years ago in South Africa, but you probably add
up to date with the way things are going. You
don't check on the conditions.
Speaker 6 (19:17):
Yeah, a little bit like obviously that time of year,
are coming out of their winter as well, so you
know it's not your traditional conditions that you'd get in
South Africa. So I guess the key is adapting pretty
quickly to what's in front of us.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
And altitude, I spoke, pays part as well in terms
of being up near Johannesburg Pretoria area. I don't know
about Potchesteram, but altitude shaps the energy of it, doesn't it.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And like I said earlier, I think
that's the benefit of these tours. Guys start to get
accustomed to these foreign conditions and how they deal with it.
But I know they're all very fit, strong, so hopefully
that holds us in good stead.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Does winning become more important than development? I know everybody
wants to win, but the development of the players and
their skills is that more important than winning? How do
you rate those two situations we talked about earlier.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Yeah, Like my view is it's a bit of a
balancing act with this program. Obviously, Eron goes there to win.
You know, that's natural, they're professional athletes. But yeah, it's
as I've mentioned, it's about the opportunity to develop these players,
help them evolve their games, so when they do get
more opportunities at the next level, they feel very comfortable
(20:34):
and confident.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
What about you, how do you feel about coaching now
as a career. I suppose you've got to develop your
skills as well, don't you At the top level when
you get this opportunity.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's pretty exciting for me. I'm
only three or four years into it now, so I'm
certainly learning a lot as I go, and I guess
this is another opportunity to bank some experience and learn
learn plenty, and like I mentioned, earlier. Fortunate to have
guys like Bob Carter and Graham Aldridge there that have
done plenty of work at this level, so I'll be
(21:06):
leaning on them.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Your depth its important in coaching too. We talk off
on about players, but you know, the ability to coach
and the programs that New Zealand Cricket are doing in
terms of coaching coaches to be able to coach are
significant now because of the challenges that coaches face.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
Yeah, yeah, we're fortunate at New Zealand Cricket. There's a
lot of emphasis put into helping develop coaches. So it's
just about taking the opportunities I suppose, and you're always
looking to learn and get better, just I guess as
a player, so there's a lot of similarities there.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Well, we'll be keeping close eye on how things are
going over there while you're in Cha. It's only sort
of about three weeks in totals. In the first game
starting on Saturday, is a one day and the players,
I suppose we'll be looking to try and prepare themselves
for home conditions because first October they'll be back and
they'll be straight into some of it, possibly playing internationals
(22:04):
against Australia.
Speaker 6 (22:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well fingers cross. It's a quick turnaround
for some them and they're involved in that series. But yeah,
ideal leader.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
If that is the case, well all the very best.
Hope things go well for you and we'll see how
you've assessed it when it's all finished, Thank you very much.
So Daniel Flynn is taking a side that features well
all but three of the side that performed well in
Bangladesh and there's three new players and they probably get
(22:33):
there because of form. Fisher was a success in the
Test match series in Zimbabwe. Jacobs has been marked down
as a talent and he's getting an opportunity. And Keen,
as Sir Daniel Flynn says, is a bit of an
all rounder and a useful sort of player and a
good chance. This is the sort of chance we want
(22:54):
to see these players. This is where you want to
develop your talent. And I think the New Zealand Cricket
and the selection panel Jerry have done a great job
in terms of keeping the consistency about these players and
giving the developing talent these opportunities which probably haven't been
there in the past.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
And as you pointed out, also the coaches was. You know,
Daniel Footen has been around a bit, but now he
gets a better, bigger chance, an opportunity. Same for the players.
But the first thing I would say, looking at the side,
their names we know and that's what your point. There's
a consistency about the people that they are choosing beneath
(23:37):
the black Caps. And they've now had games in New
Zealand against Australia. They've played in Australia, they've played in India,
they've played in Bangladesh, now to South Africa. And this
is what I think those of us who follow the
game have been calling for, isn't it for so many years?
(23:58):
Let's develop this group of players beneath our top players,
because you know, New Zealand is a side that contains
mature players, experienced players, and that's good, but that they
are going to finish and their finished will come at
some point. You know, you're not rushing, they're not rushing away,
(24:21):
but new players will be needed. And so it's so
much better that we've got a group of players who
have been to all these places I've just mentioned, and
that they have got built up some opportunities and some
runs and some experiences that they will be better players
because it won't be an easy to awards. They're coming
(24:42):
out of winter there. I think that Daniel mentioned spicy pictures.
They'll have very good quicks, I would think, and they'll
have decent batsmen and that's quite a potent combination. And
that's how South Africa have been for some time. So
a good test for these players. A lot of them
have played ODI's and T twenties for New Zealand, some
(25:07):
of them new ones have played Test matches and we've
got some others who are pushing the boundaries trying to
get in as well. And they reside in the side
and the squad. So good to see those named wads happy.
He was watching that and boy, it'll be interesting watching
how they go.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, and they've got a record that they will want
to preserve as well as you say, performed well in India, Bangladesh,
Australia and at home here. And you know, many of
those players may not go past this level. I mean
I look at guys like Kelly and Carter and Nick
Kelly was the top run scorer in domestic first class
(25:45):
cricket last season, yet he's only made short form teams
for New Zealand, but as a confident player is in
his early thirties now and those opportunities may by pass them.
But you're right about the depth we need those players
because oh, an IPL contract could come along and somebody
doesn't want a contract for New Zealand, and have you
(26:06):
got anybody to replace them? To do the same with
our coaches as I mentioned, and Daniel Flynt has got
experience at playing at the top level and now he's
getting the experience he needs to take him further.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
YEP. Can't disagree with any of that. So let's see
how they go. Let's see how they go. Hope they
wish them well and hope that you know, a few
of them come back being better players. That's really what
we want, isn't it. That they've got They know about
the conditions in South Africa. They've they've faced some different bowlers,
(26:39):
they've they've had to confront bowling to batsmen who seemed
too good for them to get out. But they work
a way and work away and try and solve problems.
So just like I mean that left armor that's got
that's come from CD that that was in Bangladesh. I
can't remember his name offhand. I haven't got the names
(26:59):
in front of me, sorry, Lennox. Yeah, and you know
that he learns to land the ball not just accurately
on the same spot on the pitch, but he can
get it to that same place with different flights, and
so he could be flatter and still hit that point.
He could be up in the air and down again
(27:20):
on the same point. He can get an arm ball
coming in on the same point, then we've really got
a bowler. So those are all the sorts of things
he'll need to start to think about and to learn
and to practice.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yes, indeed, and they'll be doing that coming up Saturday
of their first game against South Africa. They're playing in
Victoria and Potchefstrom. We're going to talk a little wicket
keeping in just a moment before we move on to
the question of wicket keeping. Some sad news. I don't
know how well you knew Bob Simpson, Jerry, but he
(27:53):
died just recently and a man who I guess you
could put him in the iconic Australian cricketer class. He
really committed his life to the game in Australia. He
died at the age of eighty nine. Had a good
innings as such, but he committed himself. I mean, he's
a man. He went ten years without playing Test cricket
(28:15):
just because he retired and then Kerry Packers circus came
along and he had to come back and take on
the captaincy of the side at the age of forty one.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yeah, he's a key figure, isn't he. Towards the you know,
the sort of the seventies. He started playing for Australia
in the fifties, he was under you know Beno, of
course he was his vice captain. What a supreme slip fieldsman.
He was getting almost one catch per innings, not per match,
(28:48):
per innings over his sixty two Tests, one hundred and
one hundred and something or other catchers one hundred and ten.
Maybe fantastic first slipper, not just to the quicks but
also to spin a man, as you say, pivotal figure.
(29:10):
Then he became captain after Beno, and he then paired
up with Bill Lourie who then became his He became
a captain himself. Then he had the break once he retired,
as you say, ten years working for pr firm media.
One of the first to do that. Maybe from the
players of the game who have moved into the media
(29:32):
a bit once and then you know, then suddenly you
know was a hand up, wasn't he? With their World
Series Cricket going on, Please come back, please come back,
And he did as captain for a couple of series.
(29:52):
Was dropped after those two series prematurely really when they
went to the West Indies and I think players like
Croft Roberts Garner, no one beat the West Indies away
that time in those years, and he didn't score many runs,
but they got rid of it. And then in came
(30:13):
a succession of captains like Yallop and Cohen Hughes and
so on, and so he then came back later on
as a coach, didn't he, And after they had lost
lots of games over a period, and Border was the
captain at that time, and he over the two years
(30:39):
and Border was known as his nickname Grumpy. He and
A Simpson formed a formidable pairing just at the time
of the game when you know, data, lots of computer work,
lots of figures were being thrown out at players and
(31:00):
at coaches. He was more of the old sort of
coach who taught traditionally about the skills of batting, the
techniques of batting and the fielding. I remember him actually
on a Someone asked him once there was a radio
interview that I heard, Bob you were you were an opener. Uh,
(31:26):
you had have faced all the fasties over the years.
Who would you say, Bob was the fastest you ever faced?
Sheer speed? Bob, you know? And he sort of answered, well,
you probably won't know this name. He's a New Zealander,
(31:50):
Gary Bartlett. At he said was like lightning. And I
remember asking Gary when I was interviewing him for that
TV show, I said, can you remember bowling to the Aussies?
That He said, you know you have days Jeremy when
(32:14):
things go right in your rhythm's there And he said
I had him jump in that day and he really
remembered that. You could see his smile and came back
to him. And but you know, Simmo was he would
have faced all the bowlers wads for in England. That
(32:35):
would have been Titmuss and Statham and Bailey and Laker
and Locke for the for their South Africans who were
playing then still Heini and ad Cock and Pollock, Hugh Tayfield.
Then you go through interesting he played at the time
of the Chuckers, didn't he Meccas, Gordon Rourke, Tony Locke, Griffith,
(32:59):
all those. And yet right at the end of his
career he joined the ICC and he was very much
against the developed you know, the proliferation of people who
had bad actions and wanted to fix that and complained
about the ICC for not doing anything about it. So
he would have played all those I was We's Hall, Valentine, Ramaden, Sobers, Griffiths, Gibbs,
(33:24):
you know all those players. And you know, while he
struggled in the first part of his career, the second
part he kind of averaged along with Lourie. They used
to get sixty runs and innings those openers and he
was captain for thirty nine Tests. Was Bob Simpson, so
look a very key figure. I think in the game
(33:48):
in Australia that he built a formidable side with Border
they won that eighty seven World Cup. I think it
was in India, wasn't it India? And you know then
he got a young side and instilled the hard edge,
you know, the Steve war the Boon, the Jones now
(34:08):
Dean Jones, the McDermott's you know, and he made a
made a good side. So what a figure he was
in different in different times and in different you know,
parts of the game formats te Man.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
YEP high score and Test Cricket three hundred and eleven
that was in.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
First Test was Yeah, that was his first Test hundred
at Manchester sixty four to sixty five. Yeah, and a
drawn game nevertheless. Yeah, but he got out trying to
get on with the game. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
And he featured in the partnership of three hundred and
eighty two for the opening stand against the West Indies
in Barbados, against that much vaunted West Indies attacks three
hundred and eighty two. Both he and Laurie got double hundreds.
They scored six to fifty six and I think the
West and he scored six hundred and eleven. Thanks very much, guys.
(35:08):
Game over a lovely man, Bob Simpson and we remember
whom finally passed away at the age of eighty nine,
sadly missed. We end this week highlighting my well messing
around in cricket media social accounts. On Facebook. There's an
(35:30):
account called Cricket Zone and they put up a posting
New Zealand's top wicket keepers. That's why I say who
were they? They've got five pictures of them. The goat,
greatest of all time, not a goat. They've got Brendon McCallum, legend,
They've got b J. Whittling, world class, adam PERORI, iconic
(35:55):
Tom Blundell and great Gareth Hopkins remember him, played a
couple of games for New Zealand. I'm sorry, I disagree.
You can't pick a group of wicket keepers without the
name Smith, Petrie, Ward, Dick, Wadsworth, Lee's and the numbers
(36:16):
go on, where do you sit on those, Jerry, because
you've played alongside some of the great wicket keepers that
we produced in New Zealand cricket.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Yeah, I started wads with Ken Wadsworth, a very very supportive,
encouraging man. Gave to the team very positive great ball
hand eye coordination. Stood back a bit more because New
Zealand's attack in those days. You know where the two Hadleys,
Richard and Dale. He had Richard Collins, of course, he
(36:46):
had kids. He had Bruce Taylor, Murray Webb, those kinds
of players. So he was back behind the stumps. Hell
of a good against them and take some of the
catches he took, but he was used to also standing
up a bit. David O'Sullivan played for CD, and of
course Hedley Howard's was the New Zealand left arm spinner
(37:09):
in those days as well, so he is quite comfortable
with that. Then Wally Wally came along and a keeper
and a captain. Now that's not easy. You don't see
many of those tough job, great team man. Wally very
comfortable standing up with bocky embraces, and Peter Petherick member him.
Good tour of seventy six, I think in the subcontinent
(37:32):
as well. Yeah, but you know. And then the Smithy,
of course was the majority of the period that I played.
But I have a suspicion. A lot of people look
at the dismissals, they look at the number of catchers,
they look at the stumpings, they check their batting average
and they say, yeah, he's the goat. I'm not sure
about that. He was a good keeper and they all
(37:54):
the names you gave me probably were, but from my
experience I wouldn't have listed those. I personally think that
some of the names I mean Smith because I knew
and watched him. John Johnny Ward Johnny Ward, timrou You know,
(38:16):
he was in the nineteen fifty eight side, and they
actually named him in the in the final game of
the tour, which wasn't a Test match but was like
a fifth Test match, they named him against the New
Zealand because they thought he was so outstanding. That's over
in England and so. But I think the thing to
me is, if I can for a second, would you
(38:36):
regard them as the central figure in the field, the
wicket keeper, Well, I think.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
People do, don't they, because they basically provide all the
info of line length, pace in terms of what's going
on out in the middle for the skipper, don't they
and the bowler. That is, to my mind, what the
partnership and pairing is about.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Isn't it absolutely the they? When you think of the
cricket transaction, say the bowler starts to the batsman, but
it's always aimed at the keeper. He has to expect
every ball of the day, every piece of action. So
that's about over five hundred deep squats a day, the
(39:22):
matter how hot it is, the matter how cold, and
he's holding his balance every day. In New Zealand, probably
he's the one fielder who takes probably more catches than
anyone else. The high ones off the top edge that
he has to turn and run leg side, ones going low,
(39:44):
diving low to the sides, and so on. Some he
gets both hands to. Some just one he's stopping. Buys
he delivers the coup de gras, and the majority of runouts.
He kind of makes a team appear good. You know,
he camouflages poor returns. He makes it look a good return.
(40:08):
He picks it up on the half volley. You know,
he adds a bit of color. He's tidying up all
those things. He's running up to the stumps. Most balls,
he's tidying up from defensive prods. He runs around the
batsman to do that. Even if he drops a chance, wadds.
He's got to get and remain enthusiastic about the team.
(40:29):
He can't waver. His sort of enthusiasm and his concentration
can't waver, even though he's sort of got a bit disappointed,
as you say. He helps the bowler, you know, encourages them.
You're hitting the gloves well today, Pow. Your wrist's looking
good from here. Your front arm looks strong. Keep it
(40:49):
up there. You're nice and tall. You know, he's talking
little words about movement and length to the bowler, and
I recall Smith he actually talking you and I write
in commentary in India and Paddles is one short of
his world record if you remember that eight And I
(41:10):
remember him having a chat to Richard at the end
of an over and looking at ball marks on the
pitch where the balls landed. Look, you're beating the you're
beating the bat paddles. But I reckon if you're another
foot up and paddles was good enough, he could change that,
and two overs later j Hadley had the world record
caught in the slips. And that's where a keeper comes
(41:33):
in that you don't kind of notice unless you're watching closely.
And the captain, you know how much movement, how much
movements he getting is he's hitting the hands. And sometimes
you're wanting, in fact, to get your pace bowler more wads,
and you quite deliberately say let's all move upper pace,
(41:55):
and the old fast bowler thinks, like, hell you are,
I'm I'm going to push them back now, and so
you get more pace from him. Those kinds of things
the keeper does, And then of course there's the bat
that we know. But look, we could go on about
keeping a long time. But I think of people like
(42:17):
when I was playing and when you were playing you
he was on your side, Silvery McMahon, Trevor McMahon in
the fifties. Wards, I reckon he's the oldest living Test
cricketer now, is he? You know he used to stand
up to Bruce Taylor who was playing for New Zealand yep,
(42:37):
and stump people down league side as you overbalanced. But
I think some of the names you know over the
Ken Wadsworth that I meant John Ward, I've mentioned again,
Eric Petrie, Ian Smith, I think I think they're just
just as equal as any of those people that you
have named.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Actually, yeah, I think you can get caught up with
the greatest of all time because everyone has done a
significant job in their era. And I suppose it is
a business of the era that you are playing because
things change, pictures change, balls change, yes, and change. But
we've been we've been well served. I would be hard
(43:20):
pressed to put Brendan McCullum in the greatest of all time,
but I don't know who I would put the ahead of.
I mean, the one wiki keeper I saw for being
esthetically pleasing as the keeper was adam PERORI I thought
he was an outstanding government. But you know that was
just one skill. There are so many skills involved in
(43:41):
keeping wicket, isn't he.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Oh yes, to keep, to keep the whole side. You know,
it's not the it's not the chin chundering. You hear
nowadays that that really matters much. We all know, come on, boys,
we're in here. Well, we're all looking to do that
actually all the time. But it's a little word here,
a little word there, as I say to the bowler,
(44:04):
to the captain, helping things out and keeping things going,
not just after two sessions, because any keeper can do that,
but after five, after five in the field and it's
and it's bloody hot or in still absolutely so. Look,
I'm I'm a bit like you. I don't like having
(44:26):
these these titles that people want to give too keepers.
They all do the work, they do it the best
they can. They're just doing their best, the same as
everybody else.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
All Right, we'll end that discussion there, and I'm just
putting aside the best second slippers that New Zealand and
see if I can get any or people to come
forward with.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Those Bob Simpson was so good he would take second slippers.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Well yeah, and I'm talking about this he didn't.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
That's right. Yeah, think about that, Jerry. I might see
if we can find something out over there.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Hey, well I've got a suggestion.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Okay, what's save them for next week? Right? I get
the Financial Times out mate, and keep off the social
cricket web pages.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
All right, I will, mate, I will thank you very much,
and I'm looking forward. I'm heading back your way next week.
So it's been good time over here, seeing some good
cricket with India and England and and some not so
good cricket at times. That's always the way. But looking
forward to coming home.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Look, weather has been lovely summer's day in Wellington and
we've had a few of them over the last few days.
So you know, if it feels like that and Wellington,
that must be good around the country. Good trip, handel,
sleep well.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
You'll be good ones. Just get out and do those lawns. Boy,
I know what's there like on the egg like that
you have to get one league long and the obum exactly.
Good trip home, hate all right, take.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Care of.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Summer.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
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Popular Podcasts
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.