Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, back at it we go in twelve thirty two.
It is. I hope your weekend has been fine and
we got a lot of great information come up as
we look forward to some of those bigger projects spring, summer,
fall projects. Maybe not an outdoor project you want to
tackle right now that we've had a couple of good days.
Joining me is Joe Hagen. He is the owner, designer
(00:23):
and the deck expert from All decked Out. Joe. Welcome
at home with Gary Sullivan.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Thank you, Gary. Great to be on here.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
How's the deck business looking.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It's been going great, ramping up to get ready for
a very busy season.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, I think it is going to be a busy season.
Let's just start with some you know, real basics, and
that is I know you're a deck designer, you are
the owner of All decked Out. You installed, build decks,
what kind of things. If somebody's sitting at home right now,
(01:03):
and I'd really like to have a deck off the
back of this house. I see these four, five, six,
eight hundred thousand dollars homes and they got a back
door and then you got about a twenty foot step. Yeah,
you got to get a deck on those things folks,
It drives me crazy every time I drive by them.
What kind of things to consider?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Really? All the main thing is considered ones. You know,
first is budget, you know, how much do you want
to invest into that space? And then material options. There's
a lot of material options on the market, and I
would say a majority of our clients are going with
low maintenance composite, something that's going to last a long time,
because having somebody build something for you these days is
not cheap. So you know, you definitely want to invest
(01:47):
in quality products are going to last.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And a lot of that goes into with the budget, right,
which was the first thing.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
You said, Yeah, absolutely, you know materials have a lot
to do with that much as well. But you know
there's different factors such as you know, the size, that layout,
you know what all are you going to use the
space for? Is are going to be for entertaining purposes?
Or you can have shade structures that can all go
(02:13):
into the budget as well.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So how do you counsel with people on layouts? Is
it really about lifestyle or is it which facing you
have or creating shade or what things do you discuss
with homeowners on that.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Emailed that I mean everything that you just said. We
would first talk about how they're going to use the space.
You know, they're not gonna be able to use the
space in the evenings if they have direct sun, so
we'd want to talk about shade structures if that's going
to be a concern. It's really just how they're going
to use the space. I like to create zones when
I'm designing. I like to create zones because everybody doesn't
(02:55):
hang out all in the same area, so I like
to have like a grilling area, die area, maybe an
area for lounging and that kind of thing. So a
lot goes into the designs, and you know.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Sure that kind of thing. I'm probably like you in
the fact you're so exposed to all the different products
that are out there, and we get the beauty of
these products is phenomenal. But there's still people, you know,
that want a deck, they want a nice deck, and
they're okay with the pressure treated wood. I got to
(03:33):
ask you, you're you're the expert. What's going on with
pressure treated wood these days?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, So, back prior to two thousand and three, wood
was treated with like arsenic and you know, kind of
crazy chemicals. To make it last a lot longer. Nowadays
they have a copper treatment because of the EPA put
regulations in place, which makes it safer to use. But
the lumber is just not as good. And you know
one thing too, they're using faster growing trees to keep
(03:59):
up demand, and you know the combination of the two
just wood decking just doesn't last as long. Well, a
lot of people might only be able to afford pressure treated.
It's just going to have its downfalls with like cracking
and splitting and a lot more maintenance. People these days
don't really have the time to maintain their decks, and
that's why composites are getting so popular.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, I you know, I agree with that so much.
I think the pressure you would and even callers have commented,
you know, like this is nothing like the pressure treatment
that used to be. And we used to say that
the pressure treat of wood's going to last thirty forty years.
I don't think anybody's going to say that anymore exactly,
(04:42):
I mean used to out there. Yeah, And you know
it used to be when we were trying to talk
to people about composites and things, you could always say,
you know, like, well you're never going to have to
really maintain if you have to clean it. I'm not
going to tell you don't think you have to clean it.
That'd be some very minor maintenance that you're going to
(05:03):
have to do. And that was the selling point. Now
it's like, you know, this stuff isn't going to last
like it used to last. So another question, just staying
in the in the uh pressure treated arena for a
bit before we go to composites. What about the undercarriages
of decks. I know there's different materials, even I think
(05:27):
Treks had this steel support system for for decking. Uh,
what do you use? And I know there's a cost
difference obviously going with a steel base, But how's the
decking boards for that rating out or would you do
a kiln dride or give me some leads on that.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, so we actually a lot of the stuff that
you're gonna get like big box stores is not kill
kill drive, so it's kind of wet lumber. We actually
use a kill drive lumber, uh, basically dried out after
treatment and that's probably the best thing to use. Now.
The lumber we use for our deck framing is rated
for ground contact, even though we're using it above ground,
(06:11):
and there are many different options on the market for framing.
Cost is kind of keeping it from being so popular.
With like steel framing. They actually have a composite framing
out there on the market now, which are great. I
mean there's a last never going to rot, but the
cost is so high. So the majority of our clients
(06:32):
are still going with pressure treated framing, but we're trying
to We always try to use the best framing that
we have access to, and that's going to be a
kill dry lumber. It really reduces a lot of like
the wavingess on the decks and takes out a lot
of the flaws because it's already drive out.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, even the kiln dry deck, and if people are
replacing boards, it allows you to kind of get in
there where you can stain it right away. I always
think that's an advantage.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
That would be a major advantage anything that's dried out
and you can stain it and protect it right away.
You know, we don't do many pressure treated decks, but
I would think it hold up a lot longer if
you can get that treatment on it right away.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Composites the million dollar question. You've got composites that are
very expensive you've got a medium expensive, you've got less expensive.
But I got to tell you, the top of the
line stuff is just absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yes it is. Uh. Really you're paying too for that
natural wood. You know, it's got a lot of wood
grains in it and has you know, color variations in
the deck board, and that's really what you're paying for,
Like the higher end composites, that's what you're paying for,
is like the amount of detail that goes into each board.
A lot of them are still going to have the
same warranties, you know, and that kind of thing. But
(07:52):
you know, with the lower cost board, if you don't
care about all the color variation, that you might be
a good option to go with the lower cost board.
But if you really are into like the looks of it,
then you're going to pay a little bit more for that.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Oh my gosh, some of those boards they look like
Brazilian hardwood. They look like it should be in your
kitchen and not on your deck. They're absolutely outstanding. But
there's nothing wrong with the Like you said, it's about
the budget and what you're trying to accomplish totally.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yes, yeah, and that's what's really important to a lot
of people is bringing you know, they have these really
nice floors inside their home. They're really wanting to bring
the inside out and that nice smooth transition to the outside.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah. Like I say, there's something for everybody. And in
the composite industry is they know what they're pricing is
they know who their customer is. To a point where
the capped composites are, that's the that's where the bar
set is that.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
True, that is and it's going to be a lot
more like a recycled material on the inside and then
it has like a PVC coding on the outside. Nowadays
they have mineral base I mean the technology is crazy,
it's right, you know, it improves like computer technology. Really
they have like bamboo boo composites. Now they have mineral
(09:10):
based composites. So there's a lot of different technology and
all of them kind of have pros and cons the
you know, how they perform and you know the different.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
So I'm familiar with the mineral composites. They're a little
lighter and different things like that. What's with what's the
advantages of a bamboo composite.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
A bamboo is gonna be a lighter board as well.
But the finish on it. It's just a lighter board
and it has no like recycle. There's no wood uh
products really in there, and it's going to be capped
with a PVC product. That really it takes out a
lot of that contraction expansion of those OKAYO.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Does how how do you address the heat in the board?
Everybody always wants to know, if I do a composite
is capped, is that hotter than would? I know, wood
can get hot if it's in direct sun where that holes.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Guess one of the disadvantages of composite decking is it
will kind of retain the heat a lot more and
be a hotter. So instead of being out there barefoot,
you're probably gonna want to wear sandals. Because composite deckboards
do get hot. Pretty much all the lines do. There's
a couple on the market that say, you know that
cool deck technology. So some brands get hotter than other brands,
(10:23):
but it's going to be hotter than would for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Well, I say, anything you put in the sun's gonna
get hot. Yeah, gets hot. I mean it's a early
hot day, right, So that goes into the design too.
I mean, you can choose maybe lighter colors you can.
Maybe you said you set up zone thing. I don't know,
do you ever change colors in different zones or not?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, I mean absolutely So if you're under like let's
say we're building a roof, you don't necessarily need to
have a darker color underneath the you know, you want
to put a lighter color kind of out that's exposed
to the sun. Most of our decks are all one color.
But that's I mean, that is something you could think
about doing just to kind of keep the heat down.
Color does have a lot to do with the heat
(11:10):
as well.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Sure, just take a walk in the shades someday stiff
and direct sunlight. That makes a big difference. That can
be like twenty degrees real fast. So I'm sure you've
had this question about half a billion times. I've got
this deck and these boards are old and they're cracked.
Can I just put some composite on there?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, we do get that question quite often, And you know,
installing composite decking on existing frame and you just need
to be very careful. I'd recommend if a home owner
is going to do that, i'd recommend having a pro
out professional out to inspect the deck. Make sure the
frame is good because you don't want to put decking
on that on there that's going to last twenty five
(11:54):
to thirty plus years on a framing that might last
another ten years. So it's really important that you know.
The frame of your deck is the most important thing.
Like a foundation of a home, it's the structure of it.
So it's very important that it's done right. And I
do see a lot of people making that mistake with
you know, just putting new composite boards on there because
they don't want to stain anymore, but that can be
costly in the long run.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Well, and even knowing how to put those boards on
you pull off the old pressure treat and even if
you don't go with a composite and you put new
pressure tread on top of that without a membrane on
the that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Absolutely. We use a product called joist tape, So if
we pull deck boards up, there's gonna be lots of
holes from where the old screws and nails were, and
you don't want water getting down in there and creating
the boards to actually accelerate rot. So it's important to
put a joystape on top of all the joys before
you put new decking down.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Well, people don't realize too that water treatment or pressure
treatment only so far into that wood, and it's not
at the where that screw was exactly, and then you
got to rot at board. All right, Joe, if you
can hang on for another little segment, we'll take a break.
I'm going to talk to you about other things I'm
(13:13):
seeing now on composite deckings, also the strength of it.
When I say other things, I'm talking railings and lightings.
And then some of the mistakes maybe you see people make,
so we'll cover that. Joe Hagen, he is with a
company called All decked Out. And I've known Joe for
a few years, but he said my go to man.
And we'll continue at home with Gary Salivin right here
(13:36):
fifty five care see the talk station and back at
it we go. Joe Hagen, he is my guess. He's
the owner of the designer and deck expert at All
decked Out. And Joe, thanks for hanging on with me.
Another question is, since it's more of a design feature,
I know you're seeing more and more things being added,
(13:57):
even the layout of the planks of the decking. But
how about I always call them the bells and whistles,
but they're not really just bells and whistles. And I'm
talking about railings and lighting that can really make a
deck safe, it can really make its appearance so much more.
What's kind of going on in that a lot of
new features, different looks.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, there's actually a new system out there where it's
a lighted the glass lighting system and it's glass railing
and it lights up and it really just puts a
whole nother element to a deck at night. Just it's
incredible the technology that's coming out with decking and the railing.
(14:40):
A lot of you know, lighting is important, especially on
stairs going up, you know, for safety. And Yeah, there's
so many different options out there as far as lighting
goes and different railing systems. I'm still saying though, for
trends like aluminum railing is still going to be the
most popular, sure cables cable rail and a lot of
(15:01):
people are going with a cap top board like a
drink rail on the top of their aluminum railing. That's
that's really making a comeback.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, and that makes sense too, I mean, utilizing the
space for more things, right, I mean absolutely, yeah, Yeah,
it all, so obviously working with a designers really important
With some of these i'll call more top shelf decks.
I mean that's there's a lot going into this. I
(15:28):
mean it is a design feature of your home. Yes,
Where do people get ideas for what they want? Is
it dreams? Is it magazines? Is it on the internet?
Or where do they come up with some ideas? And
I know, I know all our ideas are always greater
than our budgets, but you know where they come up
(15:51):
with the ideas? Is there some websites you go to
even the good ideas. I know you go to different
shows and stuff, but yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Try to stay really familiar with, you know, what's going
on in the industry by trade shows. I also have
a network with different deck builders across the country that
we kind of share our work and really get inspiration
from a lot of other deck builders. We're kind of
limited on products, but we like to push the envelope
on the products. Like deck boards are not really intended
to be curved, but you know we can manipulate that
(16:20):
by heating them up and making curved deck boards. And
you know, so we're trying to take these products that
these manufacturers come out with and we just try to
push it to the max, you know, and try to
just get as creative as we can with it. But
we're working with clients too, where we want to make
it functional and really tailored to their lifestyle at the
same time.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
So if somebody went like a radius at the end
of the deck rather than just a squared off piece,
you could put a facing board where it could be
a radius.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, we can do radius decks. We can do all
kinds of stuff with deck boards. We heat them up
on it with a heat blanket that goes into it
and might mess up a border too, but we get
the perfect form built and we get that radius. Uh yeah,
it takes all the time. It's definitely an art to it,
(17:11):
but it's fine.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I actually saw somebody doing one of those recently in
our neighborhood. I guess it was in the fall, and
I'm like, whoa, that's cool. Yeah, I mean I figured
it out. It's like, well, yeah, you know, it's a
compot Gosh, that is so neat man for real. So yeah,
(17:34):
a lot of good ideas you have and before we
get into well here's a good one. So I know,
you do all different kinds of decks, it all decked out.
What do you and this is an unfair question, but
I know you'll handle it. You do all price ranges,
I'm sure, but what what do you think is an
average price for the decks that you built? I know
(17:57):
it could be all over the lot, but can you
just yeah, yeah, give me.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Some fair question. A lot of people like to know,
and we're pretty transparent on our website. We like to
post pictures of projects we've done with the price ranges,
so at least people can go online and do the research.
But cool, I would say, like a sixteen by twenty
deck is your average with you know, maybe like an
elevated deck set of steps. You're probably in the twenty
five to thirty thousand dollars range for a composite, well built,
(18:25):
low maintenance deck, you know, so I would say that
would be a good starting point. But you can always
do it less expensive than that. You can always do
it more expensive than that. Just depends on you know,
your final selections and options.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Sounds like a kitchen rehab.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Pretty much.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
That's kind of the part investment. That's a that's a
good way, you know, whatever it costs, you do your
kitchen it's probably what the kind of deck you're gonna want.
I think that's a good analogy. Yeah, and yeah, so
let's get your name out there again. It's all decked out.
And what's the website you have there in case people
(19:03):
want to check it out?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, our website is www dot all decked out five
one three dot com all.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Decked out five one three dot com. Very good. Now
let's get into mistakes, not yours. You don't make mistakes,
but you know, we got a couple of minutes. I
don't want to dwell on. But you know, a lot
of people, I think they have visions of what they
can do by themselves are a little higher than maybe
their skill set. And of course it depends on the
(19:34):
type of deck you're building. But what kind of mistakes
should people really protect themselves from making?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, I would say if you're going to do it yourself,
at least consult with you know, you know, a professional.
Some of that does it. You don't want to just
take this on by watching some YouTube videos because the
products are expensive, right, You also want to you also
want to check to make sure you don't need any
building permits or you know, check with the local building
departments to see if you need permits. And then also
(20:04):
if you're going to do it yourself, I would say
you want to read and understand the manufacture and installation
instructions because little small details as far as like gapping
and you know, just building techniques can really destroy it.
That in along run me. If you don't put the
proper gaps in, you're going to get real wavy decking
because it, you know, it has nowhere to contract and expand.
(20:27):
So I think those are the most important thing. If
you're going to do it yourself, you know, to just
plan it out properly, do your research, and then follow
the manufacturer instructions.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Like to a t boy, I say it all the time,
You've got to read the instructions. All these products are
so different and they require specifics. And I even hind
somebody today, you know, had an old pressure tree deck
and you wanted to run like a floor stand or
over it. And I go, what was your wood deck installed?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And he is, well, what do you mean? And I'm
talking about cut and crowning and you know, all this stuff,
but a lot He was like, what are you talking about?
I said, well, as a tree grows, you can see
the rings and you know, and they can't go different
ways all over. You got a tripping hazard. And if
you try to run a center over that, you're making
(21:18):
a big mistake. So there is a lot of little
tiny details that can really screw up a wonderful project.
And that's why I had my pro my pro on today.
So how about your phone number, Joe.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Our phone number is five one three eight eight six
seven seven seven to.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Two seven seven seven two. It's been a pleasure Joe
as always, and I thank you very much for joining
us today. And uh, I hope you have a great
deck season, my friend, take care.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Thank you so much, Gary, I appreciate it all right.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
You bet that's a Joe Hagen from all decked out
and again it's eight eight six seven seven seven two
is this phone number and all decked out five to
one three dot com. What a great guy, none for
a long time, does good work. And wanted to get
him on and he obliged, So hooray, all right, Danny boy,
(22:16):
thank you very much. I hope you all got a
lot of tips today and hope all your projects go
well marvelously. We'll say that the good Lord Willing Danny
and I'll both be back tomorrow for more at Home
with Gary Sullivan
All right, back at it we go in twelve thirty two.
It is. I hope your weekend has been fine and
we got a lot of great information come up as
we look forward to some of those bigger projects spring, summer,
fall projects. Maybe not an outdoor project you want to
tackle right now that we've had a couple of good days.
Joining me is Joe Hagen. He is the owner, designer
(00:23):
and the deck expert from All decked Out. Joe. Welcome
at home with Gary Sullivan.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Thank you, Gary. Great to be on here.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
How's the deck business looking.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It's been going great, ramping up to get ready for
a very busy season.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, I think it is going to be a busy season.
Let's just start with some you know, real basics, and
that is I know you're a deck designer, you are
the owner of All decked Out. You installed, build decks,
what kind of things. If somebody's sitting at home right now,
(01:03):
and I'd really like to have a deck off the
back of this house. I see these four, five, six,
eight hundred thousand dollars homes and they got a back
door and then you got about a twenty foot step. Yeah,
you got to get a deck on those things folks,
It drives me crazy every time I drive by them.
What kind of things to consider?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Really? All the main thing is considered ones. You know,
first is budget, you know, how much do you want
to invest into that space? And then material options. There's
a lot of material options on the market, and I
would say a majority of our clients are going with
low maintenance composite, something that's going to last a long time,
because having somebody build something for you these days is
not cheap. So you know, you definitely want to invest
(01:47):
in quality products are going to last.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And a lot of that goes into with the budget, right,
which was the first thing.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
You said, Yeah, absolutely, you know materials have a lot
to do with that much as well. But you know
there's different factors such as you know, the size, that layout,
you know what all are you going to use the
space for? Is are going to be for entertaining purposes?
Or you can have shade structures that can all go
(02:13):
into the budget as well.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So how do you counsel with people on layouts? Is
it really about lifestyle or is it which facing you
have or creating shade or what things do you discuss
with homeowners on that.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Emailed that I mean everything that you just said. We
would first talk about how they're going to use the space.
You know, they're not gonna be able to use the
space in the evenings if they have direct sun, so
we'd want to talk about shade structures if that's going
to be a concern. It's really just how they're going
to use the space. I like to create zones when
I'm designing. I like to create zones because everybody doesn't
(02:55):
hang out all in the same area, so I like
to have like a grilling area, die area, maybe an
area for lounging and that kind of thing. So a
lot goes into the designs, and you know.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Sure that kind of thing. I'm probably like you in
the fact you're so exposed to all the different products
that are out there, and we get the beauty of
these products is phenomenal. But there's still people, you know,
that want a deck, they want a nice deck, and
they're okay with the pressure treated wood. I got to
(03:33):
ask you, you're you're the expert. What's going on with
pressure treated wood these days?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, So, back prior to two thousand and three, wood
was treated with like arsenic and you know, kind of
crazy chemicals. To make it last a lot longer. Nowadays
they have a copper treatment because of the EPA put
regulations in place, which makes it safer to use. But
the lumber is just not as good. And you know
one thing too, they're using faster growing trees to keep
(03:59):
up demand, and you know the combination of the two
just wood decking just doesn't last as long. Well, a
lot of people might only be able to afford pressure treated.
It's just going to have its downfalls with like cracking
and splitting and a lot more maintenance. People these days
don't really have the time to maintain their decks, and
that's why composites are getting so popular.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, I you know, I agree with that so much.
I think the pressure you would and even callers have commented,
you know, like this is nothing like the pressure treatment
that used to be. And we used to say that
the pressure treat of wood's going to last thirty forty years.
I don't think anybody's going to say that anymore exactly,
(04:42):
I mean used to out there. Yeah, And you know
it used to be when we were trying to talk
to people about composites and things, you could always say,
you know, like, well you're never going to have to
really maintain if you have to clean it. I'm not
going to tell you don't think you have to clean it.
That'd be some very minor maintenance that you're going to
(05:03):
have to do. And that was the selling point. Now
it's like, you know, this stuff isn't going to last
like it used to last. So another question, just staying
in the in the uh pressure treated arena for a
bit before we go to composites. What about the undercarriages
of decks. I know there's different materials, even I think
(05:27):
Treks had this steel support system for for decking. Uh,
what do you use? And I know there's a cost
difference obviously going with a steel base, But how's the
decking boards for that rating out or would you do
a kiln dride or give me some leads on that.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, so we actually a lot of the stuff that
you're gonna get like big box stores is not kill
kill drive, so it's kind of wet lumber. We actually
use a kill drive lumber, uh, basically dried out after
treatment and that's probably the best thing to use. Now.
The lumber we use for our deck framing is rated
for ground contact, even though we're using it above ground,
(06:11):
and there are many different options on the market for framing.
Cost is kind of keeping it from being so popular.
With like steel framing. They actually have a composite framing
out there on the market now, which are great. I
mean there's a last never going to rot, but the
cost is so high. So the majority of our clients
(06:32):
are still going with pressure treated framing, but we're trying
to We always try to use the best framing that
we have access to, and that's going to be a
kill dry lumber. It really reduces a lot of like
the wavingess on the decks and takes out a lot
of the flaws because it's already drive out.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, even the kiln dry deck, and if people are
replacing boards, it allows you to kind of get in
there where you can stain it right away. I always
think that's an advantage.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
That would be a major advantage anything that's dried out
and you can stain it and protect it right away.
You know, we don't do many pressure treated decks, but
I would think it hold up a lot longer if
you can get that treatment on it right away.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Composites the million dollar question. You've got composites that are
very expensive you've got a medium expensive, you've got less expensive.
But I got to tell you, the top of the
line stuff is just absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yes it is. Uh. Really you're paying too for that
natural wood. You know, it's got a lot of wood
grains in it and has you know, color variations in
the deck board, and that's really what you're paying for,
Like the higher end composites, that's what you're paying for,
is like the amount of detail that goes into each board.
A lot of them are still going to have the
same warranties, you know, and that kind of thing. But
(07:52):
you know, with the lower cost board, if you don't
care about all the color variation, that you might be
a good option to go with the lower cost board.
But if you really are into like the looks of it,
then you're going to pay a little bit more for that.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Oh my gosh, some of those boards they look like
Brazilian hardwood. They look like it should be in your
kitchen and not on your deck. They're absolutely outstanding. But
there's nothing wrong with the Like you said, it's about
the budget and what you're trying to accomplish totally.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yes, yeah, and that's what's really important to a lot
of people is bringing you know, they have these really
nice floors inside their home. They're really wanting to bring
the inside out and that nice smooth transition to the outside.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah. Like I say, there's something for everybody. And in
the composite industry is they know what they're pricing is
they know who their customer is. To a point where
the capped composites are, that's the that's where the bar
set is that.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
True, that is and it's going to be a lot
more like a recycled material on the inside and then
it has like a PVC coding on the outside. Nowadays
they have mineral base I mean the technology is crazy,
it's right, you know, it improves like computer technology. Really
they have like bamboo boo composites. Now they have mineral
(09:10):
based composites. So there's a lot of different technology and
all of them kind of have pros and cons the
you know, how they perform and you know the different.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
So I'm familiar with the mineral composites. They're a little
lighter and different things like that. What's with what's the
advantages of a bamboo composite.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
A bamboo is gonna be a lighter board as well.
But the finish on it. It's just a lighter board
and it has no like recycle. There's no wood uh
products really in there, and it's going to be capped
with a PVC product. That really it takes out a
lot of that contraction expansion of those OKAYO.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Does how how do you address the heat in the board?
Everybody always wants to know, if I do a composite
is capped, is that hotter than would? I know, wood
can get hot if it's in direct sun where that holes.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Guess one of the disadvantages of composite decking is it
will kind of retain the heat a lot more and
be a hotter. So instead of being out there barefoot,
you're probably gonna want to wear sandals. Because composite deckboards
do get hot. Pretty much all the lines do. There's
a couple on the market that say, you know that
cool deck technology. So some brands get hotter than other brands,
(10:23):
but it's going to be hotter than would for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Well, I say, anything you put in the sun's gonna
get hot. Yeah, gets hot. I mean it's a early
hot day, right, So that goes into the design too.
I mean, you can choose maybe lighter colors you can.
Maybe you said you set up zone thing. I don't know,
do you ever change colors in different zones or not?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, I mean absolutely So if you're under like let's
say we're building a roof, you don't necessarily need to
have a darker color underneath the you know, you want
to put a lighter color kind of out that's exposed
to the sun. Most of our decks are all one color.
But that's I mean, that is something you could think
about doing just to kind of keep the heat down.
Color does have a lot to do with the heat
(11:10):
as well.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Sure, just take a walk in the shades someday stiff
and direct sunlight. That makes a big difference. That can
be like twenty degrees real fast. So I'm sure you've
had this question about half a billion times. I've got
this deck and these boards are old and they're cracked.
Can I just put some composite on there?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, we do get that question quite often, And you know,
installing composite decking on existing frame and you just need
to be very careful. I'd recommend if a home owner
is going to do that, i'd recommend having a pro
out professional out to inspect the deck. Make sure the
frame is good because you don't want to put decking
on that on there that's going to last twenty five
(11:54):
to thirty plus years on a framing that might last
another ten years. So it's really important that you know.
The frame of your deck is the most important thing.
Like a foundation of a home, it's the structure of it.
So it's very important that it's done right. And I
do see a lot of people making that mistake with
you know, just putting new composite boards on there because
they don't want to stain anymore, but that can be
costly in the long run.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Well, and even knowing how to put those boards on
you pull off the old pressure treat and even if
you don't go with a composite and you put new
pressure tread on top of that without a membrane on
the that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Absolutely. We use a product called joist tape, So if
we pull deck boards up, there's gonna be lots of
holes from where the old screws and nails were, and
you don't want water getting down in there and creating
the boards to actually accelerate rot. So it's important to
put a joystape on top of all the joys before
you put new decking down.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Well, people don't realize too that water treatment or pressure
treatment only so far into that wood, and it's not
at the where that screw was exactly, and then you
got to rot at board. All right, Joe, if you
can hang on for another little segment, we'll take a break.
I'm going to talk to you about other things I'm
(13:13):
seeing now on composite deckings, also the strength of it.
When I say other things, I'm talking railings and lightings.
And then some of the mistakes maybe you see people make,
so we'll cover that. Joe Hagen, he is with a
company called All decked Out. And I've known Joe for
a few years, but he said my go to man.
And we'll continue at home with Gary Salivin right here
(13:36):
fifty five care see the talk station and back at
it we go. Joe Hagen, he is my guess. He's
the owner of the designer and deck expert at All
decked Out. And Joe, thanks for hanging on with me.
Another question is, since it's more of a design feature,
I know you're seeing more and more things being added,
(13:57):
even the layout of the planks of the decking. But
how about I always call them the bells and whistles,
but they're not really just bells and whistles. And I'm
talking about railings and lighting that can really make a
deck safe, it can really make its appearance so much more.
What's kind of going on in that a lot of
new features, different looks.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, there's actually a new system out there where it's
a lighted the glass lighting system and it's glass railing
and it lights up and it really just puts a
whole nother element to a deck at night. Just it's
incredible the technology that's coming out with decking and the railing.
(14:40):
A lot of you know, lighting is important, especially on
stairs going up, you know, for safety. And Yeah, there's
so many different options out there as far as lighting
goes and different railing systems. I'm still saying though, for
trends like aluminum railing is still going to be the
most popular, sure cables cable rail and a lot of
(15:01):
people are going with a cap top board like a
drink rail on the top of their aluminum railing. That's
that's really making a comeback.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, and that makes sense too, I mean, utilizing the
space for more things, right, I mean absolutely, yeah, Yeah,
it all, so obviously working with a designers really important
With some of these i'll call more top shelf decks.
I mean that's there's a lot going into this. I
(15:28):
mean it is a design feature of your home. Yes,
Where do people get ideas for what they want? Is
it dreams? Is it magazines? Is it on the internet?
Or where do they come up with some ideas? And
I know, I know all our ideas are always greater
than our budgets, but you know where they come up
(15:51):
with the ideas? Is there some websites you go to
even the good ideas. I know you go to different
shows and stuff, but yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Try to stay really familiar with, you know, what's going
on in the industry by trade shows. I also have
a network with different deck builders across the country that
we kind of share our work and really get inspiration
from a lot of other deck builders. We're kind of
limited on products, but we like to push the envelope
on the products. Like deck boards are not really intended
to be curved, but you know we can manipulate that
(16:20):
by heating them up and making curved deck boards. And
you know, so we're trying to take these products that
these manufacturers come out with and we just try to
push it to the max, you know, and try to
just get as creative as we can with it. But
we're working with clients too, where we want to make
it functional and really tailored to their lifestyle at the
same time.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
So if somebody went like a radius at the end
of the deck rather than just a squared off piece,
you could put a facing board where it could be
a radius.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, we can do radius decks. We can do all
kinds of stuff with deck boards. We heat them up
on it with a heat blanket that goes into it
and might mess up a border too, but we get
the perfect form built and we get that radius. Uh yeah,
it takes all the time. It's definitely an art to it,
(17:11):
but it's fine.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I actually saw somebody doing one of those recently in
our neighborhood. I guess it was in the fall, and
I'm like, whoa, that's cool. Yeah, I mean I figured
it out. It's like, well, yeah, you know, it's a
compot Gosh, that is so neat man for real. So yeah,
(17:34):
a lot of good ideas you have and before we
get into well here's a good one. So I know,
you do all different kinds of decks, it all decked out.
What do you and this is an unfair question, but
I know you'll handle it. You do all price ranges,
I'm sure, but what what do you think is an
average price for the decks that you built? I know
(17:57):
it could be all over the lot, but can you
just yeah, yeah, give me.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Some fair question. A lot of people like to know,
and we're pretty transparent on our website. We like to
post pictures of projects we've done with the price ranges,
so at least people can go online and do the research.
But cool, I would say, like a sixteen by twenty
deck is your average with you know, maybe like an
elevated deck set of steps. You're probably in the twenty
five to thirty thousand dollars range for a composite, well built,
(18:25):
low maintenance deck, you know, so I would say that
would be a good starting point. But you can always
do it less expensive than that. You can always do
it more expensive than that. Just depends on you know,
your final selections and options.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Sounds like a kitchen rehab.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Pretty much.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
That's kind of the part investment. That's a that's a
good way, you know, whatever it costs, you do your
kitchen it's probably what the kind of deck you're gonna want.
I think that's a good analogy. Yeah, and yeah, so
let's get your name out there again. It's all decked out.
And what's the website you have there in case people
(19:03):
want to check it out?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, our website is www dot all decked out five
one three dot com all.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Decked out five one three dot com. Very good. Now
let's get into mistakes, not yours. You don't make mistakes,
but you know, we got a couple of minutes. I
don't want to dwell on. But you know, a lot
of people, I think they have visions of what they
can do by themselves are a little higher than maybe
their skill set. And of course it depends on the
(19:34):
type of deck you're building. But what kind of mistakes
should people really protect themselves from making?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, I would say if you're going to do it yourself,
at least consult with you know, you know, a professional.
Some of that does it. You don't want to just
take this on by watching some YouTube videos because the
products are expensive, right, You also want to you also
want to check to make sure you don't need any
building permits or you know, check with the local building
departments to see if you need permits. And then also
(20:04):
if you're going to do it yourself, I would say
you want to read and understand the manufacture and installation
instructions because little small details as far as like gapping
and you know, just building techniques can really destroy it.
That in along run me. If you don't put the
proper gaps in, you're going to get real wavy decking
because it, you know, it has nowhere to contract and expand.
(20:27):
So I think those are the most important thing. If
you're going to do it yourself, you know, to just
plan it out properly, do your research, and then follow
the manufacturer instructions.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Like to a t boy, I say it all the time,
You've got to read the instructions. All these products are
so different and they require specifics. And I even hind
somebody today, you know, had an old pressure tree deck
and you wanted to run like a floor stand or
over it. And I go, what was your wood deck installed?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And he is, well, what do you mean? And I'm
talking about cut and crowning and you know, all this stuff,
but a lot He was like, what are you talking about?
I said, well, as a tree grows, you can see
the rings and you know, and they can't go different
ways all over. You got a tripping hazard. And if
you try to run a center over that, you're making
(21:18):
a big mistake. So there is a lot of little
tiny details that can really screw up a wonderful project.
And that's why I had my pro my pro on today.
So how about your phone number, Joe.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Our phone number is five one three eight eight six
seven seven seven to.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Two seven seven seven two. It's been a pleasure Joe
as always, and I thank you very much for joining
us today. And uh, I hope you have a great
deck season, my friend, take care.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Thank you so much, Gary, I appreciate it all right.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
You bet that's a Joe Hagen from all decked out
and again it's eight eight six seven seven seven two
is this phone number and all decked out five to
one three dot com. What a great guy, none for
a long time, does good work. And wanted to get
him on and he obliged, So hooray, all right, Danny boy,
(22:16):
thank you very much. I hope you all got a
lot of tips today and hope all your projects go
well marvelously. We'll say that the good Lord Willing Danny
and I'll both be back tomorrow for more at Home
with Gary Sullivan
At Home with Gary Sullivan News
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