The state of the building industry with Jeff Wieland 10/19/2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:14):
All right back to where we go and joining me. Now,
we've had this fell on several times, and we're going
to talk about new construction home building. Jeff Wheeling from
Wheeling Builders, Jeff.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome, good morning here. How are you.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm doing fine. I'm doing fine. So we're talking to
a lot of people across the country right now. But
you are a and your family has been involved in
custom home building for how many years?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
If you dated back to my grandfathers, we're probably talking
more than seventy five years of the homes just here
in southwest Ohio.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Well, so I don't know where to start, but I
got a lot of questions, you know, home building, and
you see this and we're all hearing stuff on the news.
I just kind of wanted to go right right right
to the horses mouth and get what's what's going on,
what the trials with the tribulations, what's the great things
going on? But home building really does drive our economy

(01:17):
across the United States? Do you agree with that?

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah? I absolutely agree with it. You know, I think
that if you talk to every industry, as you talk
to the truck drivers, if you talk to the food industry,
and then you talk to those people. They all believe
that they probably lead the United States as well. But
as far as jobs, and I don't have the exact
data more, but you know, when I build a house,

(01:42):
we have data that says that there's probably over three
hundred and fifty people who work on that house and
at given time. And then if you take it back
to all the way back to all of the counting officials,
all of the inspectors, all of the truck drivers, all
of the architects, all the people that led it up
to that point, it's even more so it is it's

(02:03):
a ton of people who work in this industry.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
You get into furniture makers, hardware stores, to supply houses.
I mean it touches. It touches a lot of people.
It touches a lot of people. And you you're a
custom home builder. Explain the difference between a custom home
builder and a track home builder.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Favorite question ever, because I think the word custom gets
tossed around a lot, like a lot of other industries
have words that get toss around, and the cattle business
people tossed around the angus word all the time, and
it doesn't really need anything. So custom to me is
what we do is start from a blank sheet of paper, design, build,
picking all of the ideas. We're building the house specifically

(02:51):
for somebody. But we don't build market houses, we don't
build neighborhoods. We're not developers. And this is specifically what
we're here for. And and you could say this is
the best house that was ever built because it was
built specifically for those people. Every decision, every dimension, every color,
every every flooring, floor covering next to your walk covering

(03:13):
has made decisions together with the builder and the customer
and that and that's what it means to me. I
think where it gets misconstrued at is where people are saying, hey,
we we're custom and they're making a few modifications to
a standard plan, or they're building on your lot, or
you know, they call them semi custom, which again I
don't understand that word either either.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
You already aren't.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
And so there's a lot of different things, but it
has to be specific for that customer, drawn from scratch.
Whereas in neighborhoods where you have where I call them
neighborhood houses trying to be nice, I call them production house.
And those are houses where you go into a model. Uh,
you you choose from a number of floor plans, you

(03:55):
choose from a number of standard options, and they put
your plane together and you know, probably six months later
you have a house. So it's a completely different process altogether.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
I'm gonna say something and correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't know. I was just when you're listening to you,
I was just thinking, maybe a custom home builder is
a little more creative, a little more artistic, a little
more price isn't addressing isn't driving the sale. I'm not

(04:30):
saying it's not important, but it's not driving the sale.
Maybe a neighborhood housing project price is driving the sale
more so. And yeah, I think the semi custom means
maybe you can have a brown roof instead of a
black roof. Maybe you can't. It depends on what the
HOA says. But do you think that's a good good

(04:53):
way of describing it.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
I think that again, budget gets misconstrued with customs because
you on a five million dollar house, we still have
a budget and within the confines of it. And and
I think the same thing for neighborhood houses. They're trying
to hit a specific target to where they are going
to open up the opportunity for as many people to
buy that house in that target market.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Right.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
And I remember when I was president of the Homebuilding Association,
we had data that said every time the price of
a house went up one thousand dollars, there was so
many people that couldn't afford to build that house anymore.
Those are the production builders. They rely heavily on the
market and what the interest rate is doing because that
affects the person's payment and whether or not they can

(05:37):
afford that house. Whereas in custom yet you know, it's
it's it's more of a situation where it's not necessarily
budget driven, but it's what the customer wants driven. There
aren't options, there's there's customer desires, there's not upgrades, it's
what it's just what the people pick. So everything, everything
gets driven on what the customer wants and not necessarily

(05:57):
what they can they can afford. But again you have to,
you know, the builder, we always have to be good
stewards of the people's money and making sure that we're
putting into good use as whatever they're looking for.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
So that was and that that says it very well.
Thank you you. As a custom home builder, what's the
biggest part of your job, you think. I mean, because
if I'm a homeowner and I want to custom build home,
and who doesn't I better get a builder. We're on

(06:30):
the same page. I mean, that sounds very simple. But
what what do you feel like the most important role
you play in your business? I know you have seventy.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
I know, but but but you hit on it. I
think that the most and that's not necessarily the most
important role that I played, but the relationship between my
company and our customers. And you know, there are people
who are not meant in this world to build house,
and they need to just go by an existing house.
And that's why market houses are really a good option.

(07:07):
Resale is a really good option for people. And I'm
not saying that to be mean. I'm saying, hey, there's
a lot of decisions, and there's a lot of time
and effort. And when I sit down with people, the
first thing I say is they always say, hey, how
long does it take you to build a house like that?
And I say, don't worry about how long it takes
us to build this house. Let's talk about how much
time you have to dedicate to this project, because we

(07:28):
need a ton of time from you, and not everybody's
prepared for that. So people really need to understand that
that dedication, that time commitment in there. But you know,
it's really important that you align with your builder and
that you guys have a really good relationship if there's
something that's off between it, and it's no different than
any other relationship that you have in your life, if

(07:50):
there's something that's off in that relationship, because it's a
long term relationship, especially in custom building. You know where
you are in the design phase for probably six seven
months times a couple of years, you're building. We are
building this house together, you know, probably for twelve to
sixteen months, and then you have the warranty period and
then you know, MY goal is always to be able

(08:12):
to still have this friendly relationship with these customers where
we're talking to each other, you know, we've gotten them
too now where we continue to come back and work
for the families over and over again, doing different things
for them. I want to build that relationship and keep
it going. So that's that's another really important part. But
if we don't want our customers, if I only can
speak for as Wheeland builders, I want my customers to

(08:34):
come in and be transactional and say hey, what's your
price for square foot?

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Right?

Speaker 2 (08:37):
And well, yeah, there's so many other factors.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, but you say, some people maybe it's not cut
out for, but there's probably other people that really get
into it.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Passions, it's time, passion and money is what I talk
to people about all the time. And that time commitment
is what we just talked about, passion being one of
the most important parts because I want you involved. I
want you making decisions. I want you looking up things
and bringing them to us and saying, hey, what if
we did this, or what if we did this, and
and coming up with ideas and and just really invested

(09:12):
into it. And that's what makes the project really cool,
you know, and uh, and making it exciting and making
it theirs.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Well, Jeff, i've known you for many years and your
family doing custom home building and stuff. I'm sure you've
got more than a couple of families that you build
a house for and turn around and build a house again.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
We do and and and it's really I love that
part of it because it's a there's nothing that you
can hang your hat on better than than somebody coming
back to you and wanting to work with you again.
But then there's you know, in our line of work,
it's kind of crazy, but we build on these larger
acre sites, so there's opportunity for other buildings to be
built on the site. And now we're come back and

(09:54):
we're building another detached for os, We're building another poolhouse.
We're building another right now on our hom'erm the house
from twenty twenty four. Are building an in law suite
on the back of it. It's attached to the house.
So there's other opportunities and may continue to want us
to come back and do those things. And I really
take a lot of pride in that.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Sure. Jeff Wheeling, he's my guess. He's with Wheeland Builders. Uh,
let's take a little break and if I can keep
you about another ten minutes. I want to get you
to give us your take on the status of the
building industry, the demand, workforce and sound good to you.
Absolutely all right, very good, Jeff, Thank you. We'll take

(10:33):
that break. You're at home with Gary Sullivan. Help for
your home is just.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
A click away at Garysullivan online dot com. This is
at home with Gary Sullivan.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Thank hi everyone. I've been raving about wet and Forget
outdoor cleaner for years, and for good reason. It takes
the hassle out of cleaning moss, mold, and mildew. No bleaching,
no scrubbing, no rinsing, Just spray and you're done. It's

(11:12):
perfect for roofs, decks, sidewalks, even patio umbrellas. Available in
hose en sprayer with a thirty foot reach a concentrate
and are ready to use option. Find Wet and Forget
It Low's Walmart, Minards or visit Wetinforget dot com and
now in stores the new Wet and Forget Window and
screen cleaner. For over forty years, Dumont has made powerful

(11:32):
pain coating removers that are tough on layers but save
for you in the environment. Try Demand Smart Strip Advanced.
It works on over ninety percent of the coatings. No
harmful fumes, no dangerous chemicals. Not sure what you're removing, Well,
Demon's easy test Kit tells you exactly what you need.
Find Smart Strip at You're participating Do It Best retailer
Sherwin Williams or visit Dumont Global dot Com at Dumont

(11:55):
Global dot Com. Dumont Smart safe and proven, so do
it yourself with them on remodeling your basement into a recroom,
officer home gym. Well, don't forget to ventilate those spaces
to protect your home from decay. The Easy Breathed ventilation
system changes trap dirty damp air for cleaner, dryer, healthier air.
We've had an easy brief system in our home for

(12:16):
ten years now and the air in our basement always
feels fresh and clean. Do it yourself kits are available
and right now get two eumdistats with every Easy Breathed
purchase co eight six six eight two two seventy three,
twenty eight or visit easybreed dot com. Well. I talk
a lot about products that can make your life easier
and I use in love ter Mender now. Terra Mender
repairs tears and all types of clothing, fabrics, leather, buttons,

(12:39):
So grab a bottle of Terra Mender. Halloween's right around
the corner. It's one product you gotta have around your home.
It's a must have for all your Halloween decoration repairs,
no so costumes and fall crafts. Terra Menders available. That's
your local hardware store Amazon or find a store at
tear mender dot com. And find more great make do
and men's solutions and ideas. I hope you're enjoying our conversation.

(13:13):
Jeff Wheeling is my guess. He is with Wheeling Custom Builders,
and he builds custom homes, and boy uh, Jeff, I
guess this is a wide open question. But your take
on the state of the building industry, I know that's
a huge question. But where where is everything at?

Speaker 2 (13:36):
You know, I think it's been a good shaw. I mean,
I'm one of my mentors forever only told me you
pay attention to your own economy and don't pay attention
to anybody else's and and Wheeling Builders weren't really busy
and that, and I think that that's just a method
of the way we do things and the opportunity that
we've opened ourselves up to to be in a market

(13:58):
at Southwest Ohio, not just in a certain neighborhood or something.
I think that if I look around, you know where
we live in Lebanon, and if I look around Lebanon
and see I have constant conversations with our superintendent there
and he gets a report of how many different developments
are going in in the city limits, in the townships

(14:19):
that affect the school. And if I look at that list,
the building industry is on fire. I mean, it's amazing
how much stuff is happening and going on, even though
the woes that are faced with it. When you think
about pricing, when you think about interest rate, things are
still happening on a daily basis. So I think it's
in a I think it's in a space there where

(14:39):
it fits in between. It's it's riding along, you know,
it's not failing and it's not going crazy. So it's
something that I think would would dream of to keep
a consistent line on that market.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, our country is in a lot of spaces and
a lot of different economies. I love your mentor's take
on his work about your economy. My daughter lives in Charlotte.
Every time I go down there, there's like fifteen more huge,
massive high rise condo developments. And where I'm in Integrator

(15:13):
Cincinnati area, there's condo developments, but they're same. There's all
kinds of land that's being built on residential areas, homes,
and so I kind of agree with you. I mean,
we hear maybe you know, nothing's ever perfect, not everybody
can get what we want, but it seems like the
building industry is on fire.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
That condo apartment building thing. I think that that really
comes from a couple of different factors. One is, you know,
when you look back at the recession where people were
losing everything, every everything they had, including their house, they
didn't want to get into a situation like that, so
they were starting to rent. And then the other part
of it is is that these parents want to live

(15:59):
next to or close to their grand baby and they're
moving to They want to have another place that they
can go to as a vacation destination, and they want
to have a place that they can live close to
their kids. And I think that that is something that
people are really caught ontore. And then and then this
whole walkability deal that people talk about, you know where

(16:20):
they tried it in Cincinnati and and but you know
they use sprawl out and go to Liberty Town Center
and you go to different areas where you can live
in a condo. You can walk downstairs and walk down
and go to restaurants, go to bars, ice cream, whatever
you want entertainment, and it's it's all walkable. So I
think all of those things play into that big condo

(16:41):
apartment complex building.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, yeah, well there's nothing wrong. Cultures and things change, right,
But I don't see the residential buildings slowing down any either.
So maybe if we're just you know, grabbing more cultural
things at different segments and different generations, and that's been
going on for a long time.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
I think. So as any business owner, you have to
watch the economy. You have to watch what's happening around you,
in which direction it's going, and trying to see if
it see if something like that adapts to.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Your ann We've all heard for the last ten years
in a workforce workforce, a lot of people retiring. We're
getting a lot of companies working, bringing in new people
into the workforce, and we hear people grumbling there's not
enough workforce in construction. Is that beginning to change?

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Well, there's there's always been a workforce, but it's the
skilled workforce that we need. It's the people who understand
specific methods of construction that we need. Into your turn carpenters,
we need painters, we need you know, people who can
operate equipment. You know that those specific skill set need
to be there or you know, what I always tell

(17:58):
people is you need to have the drive to be
able to want to learn to do it. And if
you have the drive, you know, hungry, humble, and smart.
If you have if you're hungry to figure this out,
then you're going to be able to do just about
anything you want to do. And so that's really what
we're We have plenty of workforce, but we need the
people who are who have a desire to learn and
a desire to want to continue to work in the

(18:21):
construction industry. And once again, you know, if you look
back at the recession, and I know this was a
long time ago, but you know, Colorado State University was
one of the people who said it best and said, hey,
we used to have nine hundred kids in our in
our construction program. Now we have forty. Because they saw
what people went through and their businesses, and they saw

(18:41):
what their parents went through or whoever it was. And
it was tough to get people back into the construction
industry because it took such a fall and hurt a
lot of people, and so that that was a struggle.
Now we're getting back to the point where we have
a ton of people back in the school trying to
learn about the construction business. And I think that trade
schools and you know, if you're if you have any

(19:01):
inkling to work with your hems right now, you could
go be a plumber and electrician and heating air conditioning
contractor and equipment operator. And you're going to be so
super successful in life. It's gonna it's gonna be amazing.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, yeah, I with you. There. Tariffs, we hear about that.
How yeah, I know, But how's that working for you?

Speaker 2 (19:26):
You're lumber.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
It's all over the place, it seems like, I mean,
is it's kind of go with the flow.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
I think I think President Trump has a desire to
to make sure that people quit messing with the United
States and that the United States is in charge. And
so in order to be that, you have a business
method and and you know, you don't have to agree
with it, but you have to see the long term
goals of it. And and so that's one part of it.
But then these tariffs, it doesn't if you don't like

(19:55):
that one morning and go We're going to put a
tariff on this. It's the threat of the terraff, right,
and then you have to be where of it. So
the only the only time, the only thing I can
say is anytime we get up against something like this,
where there's severe threat of price increases or or something's
going to happen, you have to bounce back to question.
So so my stone guy can't call me up and say, hey,
we got a price increase on our stone and it's

(20:17):
going to be thirty percent. Well, let's let's hold on
a minute. What does that increase consist of? Is that
only on that stone material. It's not on your mortar,
it's not on your nails, it's not on your labor,
it's not on your propet and and let's understand what
that looks like. And the same thing with an electrician,
and the same thing with so one day we got
a call from from our plumbing supply house and Kohler said, hey,

(20:38):
we're getting these tariffs and you have to buy all
of your pictures today. Well for us, that's a couple
of hundred thousand dollars. And I said, well, wait a minute,
I want to see a letter from President Trump that
told it tells us that the tariff is in enacted
today and it's going to be this much money on
this particular faucet. And of course I'm the pain in
the butt, and they don't like that. But it's it's true.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
So where you've got to go with the flow.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
So three days later lo and behold, yeah here and
and well, it's going to be coming. It's going to
be coming, and we haven't seen it yet, so I
think that it's it's definitely something that is in his program.
That's that's setting America up to operate in a different manner,
but we're going to have to take some hits to
get there. I haven't felt it just yet. You know,

(21:21):
there's a couple of people who say it and then
we go back and start investigating it and then you
don't really see it too much. But I definitely think
the threat is there, but we haven't felt it just yet.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Great answer, Jeff, Thank you so much for your time today.
I certainly appreciate And if you don't mind, I'd like
to touch base a few times. As winner comes in
and maybe things slow a little bit, maybe we can
have a little segment and kind of touch base every
now and then.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Absolutely, anytime you want, Gary, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Thank you all right, Jeff, Thanks, thanks a bunch. It's
Jeff Wheeling with Wheeling Builders out of the Greater Cincinnati area.
If you ever want to touch base and talk to
a true builder custom home builder Will and Holmes. I
certainly would highly recommend Jeff's great guy. All right, let
me give you the phone number. Let's chat about your home.

(22:09):
It's eight hundred eight two three eight two five five
and you're at home with Gary Sullivan.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
More time to get your hands dirty with Gary Sullivan.
Give him a call at one eight hundred eighty two
three talk. You're at home with Gary Cellibant