Best of Brian Thomas - 01 02 26

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good to have in studio detective retired detective Jim Grindle,
who's written a book Homicide Investigation. In the interview, Jim,
good to have you in studio and to be able
to see you face to face and talk with you.
And let me start by thanking you for your storied
career in law enforcement.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Well, I definitely appreciate that. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Happy to do it, man, And I told you before
when the mics came on. It's been my experience in
my coming up on sixty years that if you're sitting
across the table with a retired police officer or an
active police officer enjoying a beer, they're the best people
to talk with because they have the most outlangius and
crazy stories, real things that happened that never happened to

(00:37):
anybody else because of, you know, being involved with the
criminal element. It's just it's crazy what you have to
deal with over the years.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
We have a lot of fun with the stories, for sure.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Oh I bet now you are not really retired right
now as I understand.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
No.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Actually, my career started back in nineteen seventy nine. Actively
retired in twenty thirteen, following twenty one years in investingations.
The spring Town Police Department has a program which allows
officers to come back and work in an auxiliary position.
We don't do any active enforcement, but we do a

(01:11):
lot of the paper pushing and things like that.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Well, fair enough, but you got it assaulted by a
fourteen year old the other day.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, he was autistic, And is this in the line
of duty?

Speaker 1 (01:23):
This happened?

Speaker 2 (01:23):
This was an off duty detail, okay, And he was
a regular at the church that we go to and
he was just having an episode.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
I understand, Look, you were an out serving award or
something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
No, no, no, And it wasn't intentional on his part.
I don't believe either.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
All right, Well that's good. Well, let's pivot over to
the homicide investigation. The interview. Explain to my listeners what
this book consists of, Jim.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Well, the book starts, well, basically, the reason for the
book was is during the interview, the individual portrayed a
lot of body language that was beyond just your normal interviews.
Pretty much displayed everything that you can actually display during
an interview. And I always thought, man, I'd be great
for a book. So, so body language is indicating a guilt, right, Well,

(02:12):
it's basically a nonverbal communication, you know, through body posturing,
facial expressions, movements, things of that nature. And you know
that it's a lot about signs of deception or that
they're not being truthful and during the interview.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
So I imagine a young detective or someone in law
enforcement who's going to be interviewing suspects could learn a
lot from this.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Oh, I would hope.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
So I asks maybe one of the points you of
your of your putting the book together.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Well, the book's got a lot of clips in there
showing when I talk about the different kind of language
that he's portraying. It's there in the book. And there's
also a two hour interview in its entirety that could
be watched as well.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
All right, how how many years experience did you have
at the time you interviewed this suspect?

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Maybe as a police officer, about thirteen year, fourteen years?

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Because as I understand it, and here you can be
correct me if I'm wrong. I mean, there's a real
skill in an art form to getting information out of witnesses.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
I would agree with that. Basically, you pretty much got
to sit down as if we know each other and
once they get a little trust in you, they're more
apt to talk to you and tell you things that
you need to know.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
All right, So being a bad cops not a good
idea under these circumstances.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
It works for the good cops.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
It works for the good cops. No, But is this
a learned skill? Like do you sit in a class,
a cadet training class or some other follow up, you know,
a continuing police education class to learn what you need
to do and how you need to conduct yourself the
best interview witnesses and get information out of them.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
There are classes. I tell a lot of people that
are in this kind of you know job to watch
everybody's interviews and learn what you like about their approach,
what works for them, and then kind of develop that
into your own. The big thing with interview you gotta
have a lot of patience. You got to you know,
get a report with the individuals. And I feel that

(04:05):
once people feel trusted with you, they people want to
brag about themselves, So it's not hard to get a
confession once you get that response, you know through them.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Is there have you learned over the years of me
Is there certain certain psychological profile that kind of fits
people who would commit very dangerous acts. I mean, there
is no one size fits all, or do they sort
of fall into a.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
Pattern if I if I can call it that.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
I don't know if I agree with that. I mean,
I've sat down with people who you think absolutely could
not have done something like this and find out they did.
My philosophy is always, you know, I assume everybody's guilty
until I prove am innocent. So that way I'm not
lazy about what I do.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Fair enough, Now, how much advanced work do you have
to do before you're interviewing someone? Evidence gathering, you know,
the crime scene information photographs? Do you use all that
incorporated in your interview or you just kind of hit
the ground running with it.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Well, in this case here, I kind of spent a
two days to getting prepared because there was a lot
of paperwork involved in it, and when I do the
interview that that stuff is on my table. I use
a lot of that as props. There's actually there's times
where I will take out photographs of the victim or
of things that are uncomfortable source being sure, and I

(05:18):
will leave them out there and during the interview just
kind of watch his response and how he reacts to
the photographs and stuff that are sitting in front of him.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
All right, let's turn specifically to the subject matter of
the interview in your book, Homicide Investigation. The interview, what
was he what was he suspected of?

Speaker 2 (05:32):
When you were interviewing, Well, there was a robbery that
occurred involving three Hispanic males in an apartment complex there
in Springdale. After that robbery occurred and the fleeing of
that vehicle, an individual shot. He's actually one of the
people that was, you know, involved in the actual robbery.

(05:54):
So basically it's an accidental shooting by bad guy in Ohio.
That would only basically be, you know, an accidental accident shooting.
But the fact they're leaving a homicide or a robber,
I should say, it would make a felony. And therefore,
you know, a homicide.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
And anybody involved in the crime where the homicide happens
is himself or herself also going to be charged with
that homicide.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
That's correct, And the purpose of the interview was one
to establish they were involved in the actual robbery and
who actually fired the round that killed Lamar.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
And I presume at the outset of the interview, The
guy denied even being there.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
This was a two hour or tenmide interview, and it
wasn't until about an hour and a half into it
that we actually got something out of him that put
him there.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Okay, well, what was your first indication that you had
the right guy?

Speaker 2 (06:47):
What do he said?

Speaker 5 (06:47):
Down?

Speaker 6 (06:48):
Down?

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Well, the reason I say that is the work had
already been done, The search works were done. We had
text messaging, and we had phone records, so when we
said down, we pretty much knew everything we were going
to be asking him.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Then, Okay, well, when confronted with hard evidence like well,
here's your cell phone and here's the text information, back
and forth. And this is why it's relevant to this
particular case, how does someone just deny that?

Speaker 4 (07:13):
All right?

Speaker 1 (07:13):
I presume it's some measure of the guy denied it.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
No, he denied strong, strong denials with his non involvement
of it. But and actually it's kind of interesting that
the photograph is sitting in front of him. He actually
turns around and actually points out and says she did it,
and starts actually pointing on the photograph.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
I supaid, that's rather damning. Under the circumstances, he can't
say you weren't there and then identify someone who was
involved with it if you weren't there.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
That don't work very well.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
It doesn't work well. So what's a guy's reaction like that?
When he pointed out to him, he's denied it, denied it,
and then he points to the photograph, said, she did it?
I mean, did you see? Well, wait a second, you
said you weren't there. How is it you know she
did it?

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Well, the other problem was who was driving the car,
who actually fired around? So at this point he claims
now that he's the driver of the car and had
nothing to do with actually firing around that killed him.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
But truly that doesn't really matter under the circumstances because
again he was involved.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
In the crime.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
That's correct.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
All right.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, what is one of the more interesting sort of
developments during this interview that you knew you had the
right guy? I guess because I'm just kind of wondering
how this all unfolds.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well, when he first sits down and everything, you know,
the two of them were best friends. They grew up
in school together at Princeton. The person was actually killed
was an upcoming football sensation. They thought he'd make it
actually to the NFL, and he played off the fact
that they were great, you know, great friends and everything,
and when the shooting took place. Lamar didn't actually pass

(08:48):
the night of the shooting. It was a couple of
days thereafter. And this individual would actually stay with the family,
you know, as a friend and everything else, and he
had no idea that he was actually part of the
homicide while he was living with an asshold.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
I'm a huge supporter of law enforcement. You know that
we've already talked about it, and I think you were
aware from listening to the show. My sister retired from
the Cincinni Police Department after twenty five years of career
in law enforcement. Your perception of what's going on now,
we have a difficult time in recruiting police officers now.
The defund the police. The police are all a bunch

(09:23):
of racists. You know, that kind of narrative has permeated
through the society our since a police departments down one
hundred and fifty officers. They're losing more and more every day.
I know they got some classes lined up and they're
trying to do it some lateral hires. What's your take
on law enforcement right now? You know, for someone out
there that maybe consider for a career. And do you
think things have kind of run off the rails as

(09:44):
we exist in a society here relative to our perceptional
law enforcement.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Well, from when I started in nineteen eighty, things have
come a long way. And I say that not in
a good way. When you got law enforcement back then,
it was a brotherhood. It was something you they wanted
to do. Now it's a job for just money. I mean,
people come and get to work. You know, I see
people turning down details to pay fifty five sixty dollars

(10:08):
an hour. There's not a strong brotherhood like there used
to be. And it's like you said that with the
courts and what they're doing now with the people that
are you know, I think what they do is they
protect mostly the bad people and the people that are
good people. It's just don't work for them.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Well, in your motivation to go into law enforcement, I
suppose comes out of your sense of community. You want
to help the community. You want to you know, get
the bad guys and see the justices served well.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
With everything said like that, here I am forty four
years later and I still enjoy it like it was
the day one for me.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, well, one sense of community doesn't disappear with age.
I mean, you can become jaded and cynical, but it's
the reason you entered into law enforcement. And it's kind
of a shame that it's it's it's it's gotten the
way it has. And you're right, I said, the the
core to the justice system, the key, you know, leg
on the stool of the justice system is holding people

(11:04):
accountable and and and you know, punishing them for their crimes.
It acts as a deterrent so that others do not
do it. He's that person's held as an example. Look
what's going to happen to you if you do the
same damn thing, So you're not inclined to do it.
I wouldn't want to go to jail, for God's sake.
It's enough of a determ for me to just keep
my nose clean my entire life. But if you take
that away, things runningm uck.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Well. And with that said, I mean, I've worked with
a lot of great people. My career wouldn't be like
it is without the people I worked side by side with.
And I mean there's a lot of good people out
there and a lot of them have the same feelings
I do that this is a great career. I still
recommend it to people.

Speaker 4 (11:40):
Good for you. I'm glad so.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
And that's what you put into it. I mean, if
you go into it with a you know, where you
get along with people, you like to work with people,
it'll work for.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
You, right.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
And no one's going to tell anybody it's an easy job,
that's for sure, but it can be very rewarding.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
It is.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Jim, It's been a real pleasure talking with you. Thank
for putting it down on paper and letting us enjoy
and learn from your experience as a law enforcement officer.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Well, I appreciate you for having me.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
It's been a real pleasure. Have a wonderful weekend, sir.
I'm pleased to welcome to the fifty five CARSC Morning Show.
Book you can get on my blog page fifty five
krs dot com like Swans by our local author Susie
Kahin Susy, Welcome to the program. It's great to have
you on this morning.

Speaker 6 (12:18):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
I'm honored to be here. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Well, I'm honored to have you on. And you know,
you could be quite an inspiration to some other folks.
In the listening audience. And I would like to put
a plug in for Peter Bronson because his Chili Dog
Press is a local publishing outfit and he is an
extraordinary author in his own right. But let me first
ask you what part of town are you and since
you are described as a local author.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
Susie, I live in Sharonville.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Okay, great, And you got a bit of a Brady
Bunch situation going over your place.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
Well, our kids are all grown, so they actually never
grew up together. Oh okay, but they get along great.
So we're we have I have twin boys, and my
husband has three daughters, so we're one short of the
perfect baby bunch.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
That's great. I saw the description of your in your
in the outline, and I just was chuckling to myself
about that. You're also a flight attendant.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yes, be doing that from Doha last night, actually, oh
wo And I was so nervous because you know, at
the airport in Philadelphia is ams, there were so many
delayed flights and I was like praying that I would
get on the six o'clock because otherwise it would be
a very late arrival. And with the jet lag and
all that, I was like, I just want to feel

(13:35):
good in the.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Morning, you know, I understand that, And props to you
and all of the flight attendants I talked to iHeartMedia
aviation expert Jay Ratliffe every Thursday, and he is always
reminding people that you're not stewardess is you're highly trained
folks who were designed to deal with, you know, potentially
terrible problems and need to be treated with much greater respect.
So I can put in a word a positive word

(13:57):
in for you and other flight attendants for the work
that you do. All right, pivoting over your book, like Swans,
what inspired you to write the book? We're can dive
into the details of it and tell my listeners all
about it.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
Well, my parents always, especially my mom, talked about how
they escaped and life over there. And I wrote a
short story about it in like nineteen eighty six, and
my professors like, oh that, you know, that's pretty good.
You should expound on that. Well, you know, then I
had twins and got really busy and I was, you know,

(14:31):
flying full time and my mother, though, was always like, no, physy,
what are you gonna write that book? And it was
a lifelong dream and when COVID came about. The silver
lining of COVID for me was having an eighteen month
leave where I could sit down. Michael, my husband said, okay,
you know, you can write your book now, and I

(14:52):
knew I had no more excuses, so I sat down
and worked, you know, very hard. It was really a
labor of love. It was the hardest thing I've had
to ever do because when I was writing it, you know,
we had so much censorship going on, and it just
reminded me of what my parents talked about.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Well, you said over there. The over there you were
talking about is Czechoslovakia with post communists when the Communists
were in charge.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yes, it was like in nineteen sixty six was one
day escaped. So sorry if we got that small detail,
but it's okay. Yeah. So they you know, told me
about how everything was still controlled, and that's how I
felt that everything was controlled, you know, information about COVID

(15:45):
and then how we could live, what we could do,
you know, we had to wear masks. Uh.

Speaker 7 (15:51):
It was just it was just really weird.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
I can't even but see that's the See, I've found
a whole lot of positive of about COVID and know
you're illustrating one of them. I think the people will
be less inclined to just sort of prostrate themselves before
whatever directive from some random governor says about where you
can be and what you can't do. In spite of
the fact that we have amendments of the Constitution which
project protect these liberties and freedoms, it's as if the

(16:17):
Constitution was eradicated, and it did feel a lot like, say,
Czechoslovaki are under the under the Soviet Union, because I've
read a lot of Mulan Candera, and I believe that's
where he is from, and he's written about it. One
of the one of the books of the note he
made or the joke I think was the name of it.
He made some sort of random joke about one of
the Soviet leaders and ended up getting unemployed and ostracized

(16:40):
just pri merely uttering a joke.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Brian, my mother got called into the local police station
for wearing a sweater that was bright and colorful.

Speaker 8 (16:56):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
They accused her of uh, you know, advertising Western propaganda.

Speaker 8 (17:05):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
And that was really a blessing because my father had
spoken for years about you know, he said, you know,
we need to leave things are getting worse and they're
they're not going to get better. But she didn't want
to leave her family. You know, they waited two years
to get an apartment, she had to get an extra
part time job, and to you know, furnish it. Everything

(17:31):
was difficult. I mean there was just no easy path
for food, for furniture, and so she's like, you know,
I don't want to leave. But that showed her that
someone in the neighborhood. There was every neighborhood like a
had a watch person, so you never knew who it was.
And so she got called in because of this sweater

(17:55):
and that's the turn That was the turning point for her.
You know, she knew that they had to get out.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Wow, that's that's just frightening stuff. Now, is the book
about their story, in other words, a work of nonfiction
about their trials and tribulations and experiencing wife under communist
Czechoslovakian and then ultimately leaving.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
Yes, it's it's I really wanted people to see why
you would want to leave a place like that. I mean,
you know, waiting in line for food, people would get
in line if there was a line. They didn't even
know why. Oh wow, but they got in it because
it might be something good that they could sell. I mean,
it was just like a weird sci fi and we're

(18:40):
living in almost but it was if the book is
a love story and a thriller, because you know their escape.
I mean, of course, you know they did make it,
but just the way it all happened, it was really
God's intervention, I believe, because just the way everything I
don't want to give too much away, No, no, you

(19:02):
know how it all came about. That they were actually
able to get out well really amazing because many people
weren't able.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
To well in an oppressive regime like Czechoslovakia during the
Soviet days. You mentioned the emotional struggle of deciding to leave,
because in spite of how bad things are, you have
all these emotional ties not just to the land, but
also to your community and your friends. But once they
made the decision to leave, was it was it difficult?

(19:29):
Did they have to you know, steal out of the
country under cover of darkness or be snuck out or
could they Did they work through some approval process?

Speaker 3 (19:37):
No, they tried to get approval. I mean my dad
had approval, you know, put in for years, but they
never got it because my father, my mom's dad, was
a capitalist. He had a trucking company and so he
was on their like blacklist, and so my mother wasn't
allowed to go to college. She was She actually wanted to.

Speaker 9 (19:59):
Be the flight attendant.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
That was her lifelong dream, which is so ironic because
I never that wasn't in my you know of you
at all, and I got it by just sheer chance.
And so my I don't know where was I. They
escaped because my mom got permission to take me out
of the country to Yugoslavia because I had a lot

(20:25):
of ear issues and the doctor was like, oh, you
need to go by the sea because the air is
much better. And then my dad, last like a last
minute thing, got a trip to Milan. He was an engineer,
and so he had a business trip to Milan because
one of the boss's sons was ill. I mean, you know,

(20:48):
usually only the people in the party were allowed to travel,
but this was some big job and my dad was
given permission to go normally because he would not sign
on the communist party line. He refused, and so he
knew that, you know, something was going to give. I mean,
they weren't going to let him just get away with
that forever, and that's why he knew he had you know,

(21:10):
they had to get out of there.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Wow, So they were on.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
They took the same train out of Prague, got to
Austria Vienna, and did not go on their separate trains
to their final destinations. They stayed there and my dad
had had family there that they actually didn't even know
if they were still alive because they never got the letter,

(21:36):
a letter, you know, in response to their letter. But
you know, it just worked out for them that they were.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
I'm so glad you wrote this because this may give
people something they truly need, is to pause and consider
the freedoms that we enjoy in the face of a
country that won't let you leave. I just can't imagine
being in that environment. And I've heard a lot of
stories like this over the years. Think the people tried
to get out of Berlin and had to, you know,
go through the wall or under the law or or

(22:04):
law risk getting machine gunned down for even endeavoring to leave.
This is a great story, and I guess.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
You're conism was so great. Why would people go right?

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, I know I was gonna say earlier in your
in your breadline comments like whatever happened to from each
according his ability, each according to his need. How come
it's so hard to get an apartment in a communist country?
This is all summed it up like Swan's my local
author guest today, Sussy, it's been a pleasure talking with
the Susi Khan.

Speaker 4 (22:33):
Like Swan.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
You can get it on my blog page fifty five
cars dot Com. Encourage people to do that and then
pause and reflect on what we've got here, everybody, really
inspirational Friday on the heels of the spirit of a
true Patriot, which, of course author Douglas Ernest was very,
very very profound man of faith. I'm happy to welcome

(22:56):
to the fifty five Cars Morning Show author of All
for his Glory, the Near Death Experience of a modern
day job, Pastor David Scarlett. Pastor David, is a pleasure
to have you on the fifty five Case Morning Show today.

Speaker 8 (23:09):
Well, thank you for having me.

Speaker 9 (23:10):
It's a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Well, and my father had a dear friend of his
who was a I think he was a hard surgeon.
He was a physician of some sort who ended up
on the operating table and died. And they brought him back.
But when he died, he had one of those post
death experiences, and he was in the operating room looking
down on the operating table where he was lying. And

(23:34):
my recollection is he met his mom who had passed
prior to his passing, and had this unbelievable post death experience,
only to be revived by the wonderful physicians who were
taking great care of him at the time, and from
that point forward he didn't have a care or worry
in the world. My understanding is something comparable that happened
to you. You were a former US marine and you're

(23:55):
telecommunications executive and also founder of His Glory Ministry. Tell
my listeners about your story in brief, which of course
they're going to read about in your book.

Speaker 9 (24:06):
Yeah, it's exactly, well, very similar to what you just described.
I was the least likely, still in the least likely
person on the face of ear to be a pastor
and run a ministry that reaches twenty five million people
in every country of the world. But God had a
different plan. I rose the corporate ladder after being a marine,
a three director of three Portramo in of our companies,
lots of ego lots of money, and the Lord had

(24:28):
a different plan. So on seven seven seven, I got
a bad chili dog which had botulism toxin and I
ended up dying three times. The first time that they
put me into the Cleveland Clinic was Friday the thirteenth.
I died that night, but I didn't have a near
death experience. They revived me to put me on a
breathing tube, and then they tried to pull the plug again,
and that's when I went to have it. I immediately

(24:50):
saw the panic on the doctor's look on their faces.
And when you're in the Cleveland clinic, I see you,
and you see the Cleveland Clinic doctor's panic, you know
it's probably not good. And pain. There was no pain,
There was no anxiety. Life took me up to the heaven,
saw the beauty of heaven. This just unbelievable, joy, peace, love, pictures.

(25:11):
Everything was more vivid than we ever see here on
the earth. Everything was more of The music was music
that I've never heard ever. He showed me these beautiful
mahogany pictures of my life from the time I was
born to the time to the age. So I had
to be dead for I was in having probably ten
fifteen minutes, maybe more, but I think I was only

(25:34):
clinically dead for two or three minutes. And he showed
me a couple of key things in those pictures. First,
those pictures were never taken in my entire life. Those
are pictures that he took. He showed that in heaven.
Those pictures were perfect, because heaven is perfect. But he
later told me that my report card was empty. There
was nothing I did good for him in those pictures.
So he brought me back and I was just couldn't

(25:56):
believe I'd just experienced having They stabilized me. And just
as I'm coming back, I said, I didn't see Jesus
when I was in habit. I said, Lord, I want
to see Jesus. I prayed that because I couldn't talk.
And before I even got that prayer, right at the
end of my bed was the Messiah Jesus, and he
was just glowing, beautiful, beautiful blue eyes and just absolutely love, peace, joy, hope,

(26:20):
and just over took the room. So I knew exactly
what you said that. I had no fear from that
point on. And then it went really bad. I had
five surgeries, woke up in the stomach, surgery right, well,
they're operating on me. Collapse, along, pneumonia, you name it.
It happened just barely hanging on. They finally got me
stable to pull the plug again, and as soon as

(26:43):
they did, they had all the top doctors and there's
probably thirty of the top doctors of the Cleveland kind
of watching this time to make sure nothing would go wrong.
And sure enough, as soon as that happened, it started
cold blue, cold blue beeping, and I went up. I
hovered above them, exactly the way you just vibe in
the hospital room, and I saw them and they were panicking,

(27:04):
and I said, Lord, I feel fine, I feel your love,
your joy. I don't why are they panicking? And he said,
my son, I'm going to bring it back. You're going
to start a ministry called by my name, his lord,
You're going to come out of the world, and it'd
be used for me. And again, being a director at
AT and T, and I was the least likely person
to come back to drop everything and do that for him.
And he brought me back. And later there was a

(27:27):
nurse that was kind of mocking this, saying, you know,
I'm not sure if you really experienced this, and then
I overheard two doctors that were in the room, and
he says, whatever happened in that room, we've never seen
a light radiate from the top of his bed of
his bed before.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
So when I hear you hear the words, the peace
of God would fast as all human understanding. You actually
did experience a piece of God and do have an
understanding about what it is.

Speaker 9 (27:57):
Oh yeah, it's absolutely amazing when you get that was
called in the Hebrew the shalom that peece. It can
only come from Him. You don't fear anything. You don't
fear death. People asked me to do you fear death?
Not at all. When it's time to go home, I'm
going home and I'm not worried about it. One bet.
The only thing different this time than the first time
is my report card's going to be full because I'm

(28:18):
going to do what he told me to do, be
a servant for him and to reach souls.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Well, David, were you a man of faith before this happened.
I mean, obviously you experienced an enlightenment like few people
would ever understand going through this experience. But how deep
was your faith in your connection with your with your
Christianity and your religion prior to this happening to you.

Speaker 9 (28:42):
Well, I was raised. My mother was a prayer warrior.
She prayed for me many many years, twenty five years
until I would get to the point in my life
that I would pick up a Bible. So I thought
it was about me. If I was going to get there,
it's going to be my own doing. So I was
a nine one one Christian. I would only pray when
I was in trouble. As soon as the Lord got
me out of trouble, well, I went back to my
worldly ways.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
It was like a cne Christian right Christmas in.

Speaker 9 (29:05):
Eastern exactly, and probably not even that. It's just, you know,
something that was good that I needed help with. And
once he helped me, I was out the door. But
I had a severe mentor a marital problem, and that's
in the book, and that shook me to my core
just before this near death experience, like if I wouldn't
have had that, that's what triggered me to say, wait

(29:27):
a minute, maybe it's not about me, Maybe I need
this search. And I got into the Bible, studied King David,
and then that started my walk. So I truly believe
that if that wouldn't have happened, I wouldn't have made
it to heaven. I thought I was saved, but I
was not saved.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
So since you talk about it in the book, I
guess I can ask you, perhaps was your marital issues
work related?

Speaker 7 (29:47):
Perhaps?

Speaker 9 (29:50):
Yes, I was a workaholic and my wife I took
over as a director for Ohio and had to move
my wife and young step daughter, and I was just
a workaholic and that created an affair on her part
that went really bad. And most people would have just left.
But I had a choice do I leave or do
I stay and humble myself? And how am I going

(30:10):
to get out of this? Because I was always able
to get out of things myself through the rising of
the corporate world, and I couldn't, so I had to
get on my knees and speak the Lord and that's
what started the process. And again, if that wouldn't happened,
I don't think I would have made it to happen.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
Wow, and amazing what you've done with the ministry. And
if my listeners are interested in checking it out, it's
his glory dot M the growth of that. It's just
I don't know. Clearly you have been blessed. I would
imagine you were blessed in business, but your life wasn't fulfilled.

(30:48):
This happened to you, Lord Almighty. I mean, you almost
ate a hot dog to die, and then you built
this amazing, huge church. I'm just reminded of if there
was a line from the movie Pappion a Steve McQueen
and he was standing as a dream sequence and he's
stand in front of a judge who says you are
guilty of a wasted life. Yeah, is that the kind

(31:11):
of thing when you're when you when you said that
you were told your report card was empty? Is it
some sort of Was that that the kind of realization
or is that a way of summarizing how you felt
reflecting on your life.

Speaker 9 (31:22):
That's that's exactly right. You know, you could be the
CEO of AT and T, you could create the iPhone.
At the end of the day, that doesn't impress God
and it doesn't matter. It's only what we do for
him once we accept them in our heart and become servants.
And that's hard for people to get up the corporate
ladder and to become a servant and give that all up.

(31:42):
But that's that's why Satan was thrown out of heaven
is his pride. We have to get rid of pride.
God can't work with a pride, and once we get
rid of that pride and we can be used for
this purpose, he can do amazing things.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, I'll tell you what, Pastor David, Scar's been a
real inspirational conversation. Have my listeners get a copy of
your book. We'll put my blogman podcast page fifty five
carsee dot com all for his glory the near death
experience of a modern day job. You know, I'll tell
you what. While you're uh, you're, you're, you're, you're dealing
with other of the of the deadly sins, figure out
a way to get rid of the sin of envy.

(32:15):
I think that is the root of most all of
society's problems. Yeah, I agree, David. It's been a pleasure
having you on the program. So keep up the great work,
and I'll encourage my listener to get a copy of
the book and get inspired themselves. Mark Levin returns to
the fifty five Case Morning Show, nationally syndicated talk radio
show host The Mark Levin Show, host of leve N

(32:36):
TV on the Blaze, host of the Fox News Channels Life,
Liberty and Levin cher Emeritis of the Landmark Legal Foundation,
author of Let's Count Them Eight, consecutive number one New
York Times Best Tellers, Let's call it nine. Now with
the new book on Power, welcome back to the fifty
five Case Morning Show. Always a pleasure, Mark Levin.

Speaker 10 (32:55):
Brian, I love that interview. I'm calling again tomorrow anyway,
I love the intro.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Any time, my friend. I listen to you all the time,
your Sunday show coming in. I have serious XM and
I listen to Fox News on the way and love
what you have to say. I appreciate your perspective and commentary. Now,
in your book on Power, you discussed the concept of
power extensively. That's the point of the book. How do
you differentiate between legitimate political power and its abuse? You

(33:22):
talk about the concept of positive power and negative power.

Speaker 10 (33:26):
Well, those are That's a great, great question. The book
takes the word power and takes a very close look
at it because I realized the battle in society and
the culture and government and humanity is over power. I
mean even in our personal lives psychologically in some cases,
which is not where I go, but certainly when it

(33:46):
comes to governance, and the Constitution is about power. The
Declaration of Independence lays out what I call positive power,
and then then there is the negative power. Positive power is,
for example, in our country, it's the most unique country
ever established ever. And why because this is a country
that's based on the belief that got a sovereign Judeo

(34:08):
Christian belief systems a fused with the Enlightenment. That is,
we are the sovereign God's children. Now, how do we
manifest that on earth? And the Enlightenment tells us how power?
Becking power, that's one of the main elements that came
out of the Enlightenment. Why against the monarchies, dictatorships, that

(34:28):
sort of thing, right, But look at the Marxists and
the Islamis and others. The negative power, what are they
all about? The centralization of power that people aren't the sovereign,
the ruling classes the sovereign well.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
And that's resulting in concentration of power in Washington. And
I guess you know, as a lawyer, I always go
back to this distorted Washington all powerful. We live in
a republic. We have a tenth Amendment as well as
a ninth Amendment, but we also have Wickered versus Philburn,
which extended this regulatory arm against every aspect of our lives.
That's the problem right there. The court used as a

(35:02):
mechanism to get engaged in every element of our lives.

Speaker 10 (35:06):
Yeah, that is a particularly devious decision where basically you
have a wheat farmer, so the public knows who is
growing wheat on his own land, and they still claimed
it was interstate commerce capable of being regulated because if
he didn't sell the wheat into interstate commerce, it would
affect interstate commerce. So it's one of the most atrocious
decisions e R. And you're right, it laid the foundation

(35:29):
for economic socialism, endless government intervention. So on power, I
just decide, you know, you can't have liberty without rights,
and you can't have rights without power. And there's certain
kinds of power that are good and certain kinds of
power that are bad. The struggle we're having now, basically
those of us who are not in the Democrat Party.

(35:50):
The struggle we're having now with the Democrat Party and others,
by the way, is this issue over power. They want
centralized power. You talk about wicked versus of sobern This
is about a massive fourth branch of government, a bureaucracy.
We want to elected judges aren't even in the constitution,
And what does that mean. We're supposed to be a
government of consensus, a government of representative government. So when

(36:15):
you have a bureaucracy, it doesn't represent the people. When
you want to elect to judges, they don't represent the
people either.

Speaker 7 (36:21):
They got a r but the role.

Speaker 10 (36:23):
Is really outsized in terms of what they do. So
I break this down. I look at this issue of power.
I don't think we as conservatives, or let me say this,
non leftists really think about this enough. This is all
they think about.

Speaker 7 (36:39):
They're obsessed with it.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Okay, and you talk about it, you don't necessarily go
to the psychological reality. But as you're talking, and this
is something that I struggle with all the time. Mark,
I consider myself a little el libertarian. I remember the
Libertarian Party. But I trust you with your wallet and
you zipper. I don't want to take anything from you.
When I'm done fixing me, maybe I'll come after you,
but that day's never going to come. I don't understand.
Maybe it's a psychological problem they have. Why do they

(37:04):
want to control all of our lives. Why does Zohan
Mundami want to you know, regulate you know, the price
of house, literally the price of everything, micro manage everything.
I don't get where that need for power and control
comes from, which is maybe why I don't get the
direction we're going, because people tend to roll over and
just allow it to happen to them.

Speaker 10 (37:25):
Well, if you look at history, and even if you
look around the world today, that is the rule. Yeah,
the dark side of humanity the reason why the Enlightenment
was so important, and the radical Islamis never went through
the Enlightenment. They're stuck in the primitive seventh century and
the Marxists reject the Enlightenment. It's the darker side of humanity.

(37:47):
I mean, men and women are imperfect. And so the
whole reason the Enlightenment is important, again fused with the
Judeo Christian values, is to get us past that. It
is to embrace the brighter side of humanity, to nurture
the brighter side of humanity and so forth versus this
darker side. And you ask why, because people can be evil,

(38:09):
because people can be greedy, They want power, because people
like to lord over other people. We've got millions of
people who've been murdered in this world as a result
of Marxism and Islamism, that the result of Judeo Christian
values and the Enlightenment. And so you set up a
government that protects us from evil, whether it's mob, whether

(38:30):
it's centralized government. And so where this is where our
constitution is so brilliant and it's so important. Even Scalia said,
what's the key to our constitution?

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Separation?

Speaker 10 (38:40):
Powers? What did Montesquieu say, the most important philosopher during
our constitutional period? Power checks power? What did even Aristotle say,
power needs to check out? And let me ask you,
this is that the way Mondami thinks is that the
way the Marxists think is that the way Bernie Sanders thinks.
So the Democrats think, no, it is constant government program
and government taxation, government regulation, government redistribution. Their views, their

(39:05):
beliefs are simply incompatible with the sounding.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
And so I let it all out in the book
the Book on Power. On my guests today, Mark Levin, Well,
let me ask you this in terms of reforms, As
you were saying that enlightened, smart, critical thinking, logical, reasonable,
well educated people could see through this. They would see
through the lives they would recognizing the efforts of this

(39:31):
negative power and rejected out of hand. Do you think
our education system is to blame for creating a generation
or two or three of useful idiots that are just
too uneducated to see through this, this overreach and this
abuse of our civil rights and liberties.

Speaker 7 (39:49):
I think just a.

Speaker 11 (39:49):
Lot of that.

Speaker 10 (39:50):
There's no question about it that these people have conquered
the culture, whether it's the media, whether it's achademia, whether
it's Hollywood and so forth. We're on outs there on
the ends. I don't think there's any question about that.
But we also have the problem where people actually vote
for tyranny. People like freebeests. People don't want to give
up what they have, but they want to take something

(40:11):
that somebody else has. And again, this is a darker
side of humanity, and the the Marxists play right into that.
And also they plain to the fact that human beings
are imperfect, and so they compare something the imperfection of
society with their promises. And what I say is, no,
you got to compare something to something because you know

(40:34):
they'll say, you're hungry, I'll make it affordable.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
You can't.

Speaker 10 (40:37):
You can't get a house I'll make it. Excuse me,
excuse me. Let's come back down to earth and let's
actually deal with what it is that you're proposing.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
Well, that someone can run as a socialist and actually
get traction in New York and Mondomia is an illustration. Y,
that's true, true, No argument there, Bernie Sanders, Okay, I
guess there was a period of time, you know, in
my lifetime.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
I mean, nobody would touch you with a ten foot.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Poll if you said out loud I am a Socialist
or Marxist or communists. But we've changed the society and
or perception over the years. We don't study the mistakes
of the past. No one's looking at where these experiments
have been held. Like we had a moral barometer when
I was going up to the Soviet Union. It was
freedom and capitalism versus breadlines. It was a perfect point

(41:22):
to make. Look, you want to be a commie, you
see how terrible things are there. But we lost that
when the wall came down, and since then I feel
like we've lost our way.

Speaker 11 (41:31):
Mark.

Speaker 10 (41:34):
You make a great point. A lot of the younger
people today have no first hand dog about what took place.
I mean, the Holocaust is just a distant thing, and
they throw around the word Hitler in the Holocaust or
the Soviet Union. They don't know a thing about this city,
even nine to eleven. Who hit us on nine to eleven?
The islonomists, Okay, they don't. They weren't alive. Then they

(41:56):
don't think about that. And so this is a YA.
And that's why I feel like outside of the educational system, we.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Have to fight back.

Speaker 10 (42:05):
We still have free speech. That's why I write these books.
That's why you and I are on the air trying
to reach as many people as we can with American
ideals in the belief system, trying to teach history, trying
to explain these things because they're not getting it in
the school. They have no context for this. But you know,
we as parents and grandparents, we have a responsibility too.
You don't just send your kids off the school and

(42:26):
hopeful the best, certainly not. Now. You got to take
them under your wing. You got to educate them, have
them read certain things or at least listen to certain things.
That is our responsibility. And I'm hoping these books, this
one in particular, will help in that regard.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
I'm certain it will, and I'll encourage my listeners, you
go to fifty five cars dot com and my blog
and podcast page where they can easily get a copy
of Mark ar Levin's new book on power. Please read
it wonderful and inspiring book. Mark Levin, you always are
thank you for what you do each and every day,
and you always have an open spot here on the
fifty five Carsite Morning Shore. When you write another number
one best selling book, you to get a copy of

(43:02):
the book fifty five cares dot I am pleased. Welcome
to the fifty five Cassee Morning Show. Michael McNamara. He
has initially a degree in economics University of San Francisco,
but he enlisted in the US Marine Corps back in
eighty three, left active duty in ninety four, but then
returned to the Corps in two thousand and four and
deployee Iraq twice in Afghanistan, once as an infantry soldier.

(43:23):
Retiring from the Marine Corps in twenty fifteen, founder and
president of the Post Traumatic Winning Company LLC, hosted a
podcast All Marine Radio since twenty sixteen and began presenting
the ideas connected with his first book, From Trauma to Joy,
which We're here to talk about in twenty nineteen. Michael McNamara,

(43:43):
Welcome to the fifty five Carse Morning Show. The name
of the book From Trauma to Joy Life changing lessons
that fellow US Marines taught me after traumatic events occurred
in my life, Lessons that apply to anyone. Emphasis on
that last part. It's a pleasure to have you on
the program. Michael.

Speaker 6 (43:57):
Well, first of all, as a'm a former manager of
the Cincinnati red and a guy who worked on Johnson's
party boats in the summer during college tender bar, I
am happy to be back on the air. Well, I've
never been on the here of the Queen City, but
now it's a pleasure. Brian, thank you very much for
having me.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
I was going to bring that up after your bio.
I was gonna say, also, you know John McNamara, don't
you the guy that took over after Sparky Anderson left
the Cincinnati Reds and of course filling in the blanks
on that one the party boat too. That's it brings
back memories anyway.

Speaker 6 (44:32):
Oh my god, you don't even know.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Oh, I can only imagine. I can only imagine. It's
like being a fly on the wall. I suppose being
in that role Oh.

Speaker 6 (44:42):
My god, tornado warnings while you're on the river and
there's a party going on. Incredible, incredible stories.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Man, I bet well you maybe write your second book
on that. But this book, I think it's really important.
Mental health has become something that we can all talk about.
There's no longer, at least, there's very little you know,
negative viewpoints or like, you know, get over it kind
of attitudes. These days. We know a lot of people
deal with mental health challenges. But you mentioned trauma. It's

(45:12):
the title of the book, From Trauma to Joy and
point out that approximately ninety five percent of the US
population deals with some form of trauma. We could be
talking about something as traumatic as losing a loved one
for example, right, well.

Speaker 6 (45:26):
And that's what you know, you know, that's why I
don't really care for the term PTSD, because if when
you throw that out there, everybody says, oh, that's that
combat thing, right right, or that's the thing cops in firefight. No, no, no,
it's an everybody thing. If you had to tend to
somebody who you loved and hold their hand and watch
them die of a lengthy illness, you're in the same

(45:48):
valley of the shadow of death that I'm in. We
just took different paths to get there. If you've been
abused as a child, physically, sexually, emotionally, right, and you
and you've suffered with that your life, guess what You're
in that thing too.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
So the book is about.

Speaker 6 (46:03):
You know that is not a death sentence, okay, And
the first place that you should look for an answer
is not in a jar pills, and it's not in
forever therapy. It's inside of you. And I know this.
And again I'm not a Brian. I'm not a mental
health person. I've been a leader since I was a
little kid. And so I started talking about this on
my podcast and then the way the book begins is

(46:26):
with a presentation I started doing around the world, and
that is I'm going to tell you the truth, true
things about what it is to live a great life
after you go through really difficult things, right, And I
don't care what the difficulty was. And so the great
thing that people don't understand about you know, as a marine,

(46:46):
is that our suicide is not linked to combat. It
is linked to child abuse. It is linked to child
sexual abuse and adverse childhood experiences. Because when we went
to the volunteer force. Right, we're not so much across
section of America anymore. I would tell you about fifty
percent of the people that joined the American military right

(47:09):
are trying to get to a better place. Their peers
are in jail, their dead of drug overdoses or suicide.

Speaker 4 (47:16):
But they come from that.

Speaker 6 (47:17):
Part of our culture and they're looking for something better
and sometimes they don't find it. And so you can't
understand veteran suicide or military suicide unless you understand who
we recruit. And then what I found out when I
started doing seminarts for everybody was that there was no
difference between what you know, active duty and veterans talked

(47:38):
about as opposed to the civilians that I met. It
was all it was based on the traumatic events of
their life. And so this stuff applies to anybody, and
that's the beautiful part of it.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Now, I imagine the outline and the steps and the
principles that put you set forth in the book have
to start with, I suppose a pretty tremendous amount of introspection,
trying to be an objective observer of your life and
where you are and why you're experiencing this trauma.

Speaker 6 (48:12):
Yeah, and I'll tell you what, And that's not hard
for most people, because most people when you go through
these things, you know, I saw somebody get decapitated in
a training incident, a helicopter crash in nineteen ninety three,
and you know, we were trying to save the three
other guys in the back and I have my hands,
you know, all over this one young marine and everybody dies, right,

(48:35):
And one of my senior marines came up to me.
I was a commanding officer, but one of my senior
and listen guys come up to me and asked me.
About three hours later, he goes, hey, Serri said, how
are you doing?

Speaker 12 (48:45):
And I said, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
We've been kind of busy. And he looked at me
and he said, you know you're never going.

Speaker 6 (48:48):
To get over this, right, And I said what he said?

Speaker 1 (48:51):
You'll never get over this?

Speaker 6 (48:53):
And I can't use the language I use, but I said, hey,
why don't you get away from me? I don't think
that's what they're that says to the patient right now,
to go away. And he looked at me and said, no,
you need to know that.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
And I said, who told you that?

Speaker 6 (49:08):
And he said Vietnam guys told me that, And I
tell everybody the single best piece of advice ever got,
although I didn't understand at the time, was that because
when I struggled, guess whose voice I heard a guy
who who would have died for me, who looked me
in the face and told me the truth. And once
you understand, you don't get over it that when you struggle,

(49:28):
you know what? That makes you a normal human being.
You can't go through those experiences without those ghosts coming back.
And the question becomes what do I do when they
come back? Because they will. And now the way the
nation approaches it is we'll give you medications and you
can go to Forever Talk therapy. If you look at

(49:48):
the trend lines of that, the nation set a suicide
record what twelve months ago, and the military is setting
suicide records and we're nowhere near a conflict. But that
is our approach to helping these people. And what I
tell people is before you do any of that, read
my book because if you understand, the first thing you're
going to have to do is coexist with it, because

(50:10):
it's not going away. The next thing you're going to
have to do is live with some self discipline. When
you struggle, guess what you should do. Not isolate yourself,
not go get drunk, right, and which is what marines do.

Speaker 13 (50:21):
Right.

Speaker 6 (50:22):
You should talk to somebody who loves you and will
not judge you. And you should stay away from alcohol.
And you can do that. Next, stay physically active. So
if you'll do those things, watch how quick your life changes.
Then you got to learn how to meditate.

Speaker 4 (50:35):
We merge, We don't like that word. I call it
calming your brain down.

Speaker 6 (50:38):
You got to learn how to do some version of that.
You got to learn how to read when you feel
anxious or you feel anger, and how to interrupt that cycle.
And these little wellness things. The people that damage your life,
you got to put them at arm's length and keep
them there and then all of a sudden your life
calms down. But the transformational part of this whole thing, Brian,
and the beautiful thing that I learned is you know

(50:58):
how many people around you we're struggling. You're going to
find this path out of the valley of the shadow
of death, and your life's going to get better. And
then you're going to stick your hand into their darkness
and say, hey, man, I know what you're going to
you got a minute, could I talk to you? And
if you'll do that, if you'll help them, at some
point one of them is going to pick up the

(51:19):
phone and call you and say, hey, man, remember that
conversation we had two months ago. Yeah, you don't know this,
but I was getting ready to kill myself that much.
And when we do, and I'm not saying that hypothetically,
because we all know people around us that are struggling,
and good luck sleeping that night, because you will experience
the joy part of this. I call it the Gridge moment,

(51:39):
when the Grinch's heart grows through tons and he here's
the who people singing? Right, It's that feeling. And that
is what we do with our suffering. We give it meaning.
How do we do that? We learn about it, we
learn how to live our we learn how to become
a better version of ourselves, and then we help others.
And if you'll do that, I guarantee you that you

(52:01):
can transform your life.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Well, I would imagine the conversation serves of a multitude
of reasons why it's beneficial. But in so far as say,
I'm reflecting upon the horror you that you witness and
the idea that your your commander said, you're never going
to get over it, that you will remember that incident
and it may trouble you, and you may, you know,
want to blame yourself. But if you deflect your attention

(52:25):
away from that and go back to that sort of
concept of meditation, living in the moment, not going back
and retracing old events over which you have no control,
but thinking about something different and getting your mind away
from it, that in and of itself has to be beneficial.

Speaker 6 (52:43):
Well, yeah, but I would tell you the big thing
is sometimes you can't control that smells trigger the video
in your head, right, yeah, And and and you're and
now you're you're watching the video and there's no off
button and there's no mute button. And so what you
have to learn is that's normal. That's normal. And for me,
my combat experiences were not the worst experiences of my life. Right,

(53:05):
My sister's husband murdered their two kids when she told
him she wanted her divorce fix years old and four
years old, shot him both in the head, right, and
then beat her and put the gun in his mouth
and killed himself. So even when I went to combat,
even when I went to combat, and it's important that
people hear that from somebody who spent three years in
Iraq and Afghanistan as an infantry officer, all during the

(53:27):
heights of the fighting. I'm not in that zip code.
And there's people listening to you that were sexually abused
as children, that have had this horrible things happening. They're
in my sister's zip.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Code, not in mine. And it's very humbling.

Speaker 6 (53:40):
For a cop or a firefighter to hear me speak.
And I look at them and I say, you're not
in that zip code and you know that. So you
don't have the market cornered on trauma. And so what
I want you to do is open your mind and
learn that there's nothing wrong with you when you struggle
and then it's okay. And the videos some days are
going to last longer than it's going to last. But
if you'll learn how to do these things, what you're

(54:02):
gonna do is you're going to learn how to coexist
with it. And that's really the art with your trauma,
to understand there's nothing wrong with you, to understand that
you're going to coexist with it. I mean more than
War two, that's once three hundred years old. Yeah, ask
them about what they did and they'll tell you in
slow motion, high definition what they did. So it's not
like this stuff leaves you. And that's so it's developing

(54:23):
wisdom relative to this stuff.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Michael McNamara from Trauma to Joy Life changing lessons that
Philly US Marines taught me after traumatic events occurred in
my life, underscore lessons that apply to anyone. Michael can't
thank you enough for the time you spent my listeners
with me on the program. I will certainly recommend they
go to fifty five carec dot com where we have
a link to get your book. We all experience trauma,

(54:45):
and Michael's figured out a way to help us all
deal with it. It's been a pleasure having in the program,
and I want to thank you on behalf of all
of my listeners and myself personally for your service to
our country and your service to everyone for writing this book.
By the fifty five Karri CD talk Station, Happy Friday
looking forward to the bottom of the hour with Kimberlee

(55:07):
from sant Anthea Patowa's Church regarding the Mediterranean Festival and
hopefully bearer of Kibbi and Taboulie in the meantime, happy
to welcome to the fifty five Carsy Morning Show. Understatement
to say controversial. Larry Flint. We all know him, especially
here in City Cincinnati. His wife, of course, Larry passed away.
Liz Flint is joining the program. She currently runs the

(55:27):
entire empire. She is behind the book and author of
the book Hustler Fifty Years Hustler fifty fifty Years of Freedom.
Liz Flint, Welcome to the fifty five Carsee Morning Show.

Speaker 14 (55:39):
Well, good morning to you.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
It's a pleasure to have you on, and what a
perfect timing to have you on the show.

Speaker 13 (55:44):
Now.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
I know my listeners, being of the more conservative mindset,
may not believe in and find the material that has
been featured in Hustler now since I guess nineteen seventy
four when it was first published, to their liking or taste.
But as a staunch defender of the concert and First Amendment,
you know, different strokes for different folks, if I may

(56:04):
be so bold, And I know that Larry Flint was
subject to a lot of litigation over his life and
fought a hard challenge ended up in the Supreme Court
in the name of free speech, and actually prevailed you
feature that in the book, do you not, Yes, I too.

Speaker 14 (56:21):
Well, you know what free speech is, all speech, even
hate speech. Well, we can't start slicing and dicing. Well,
it's fit. So it's called toleration. We have to tolerate
those that we don't necessarily like. But at the end
of the day, we'll always find a common ground to
agree on exactly.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
And I'm a listen you speak in my language on that.
You know, I appreciate the free speech, including you know,
there is hate speech out in the world, but the
freedom of speech allows people to make such utterances, and
in so doing, we at least can identify and choose
to agree or disagree with them, or at least engage
in a debate about the marriage of what they are saying.

(57:01):
In a society without free speech, you can't even engage
in a debate, which is why I am appreciative of
the First Amendment. You know. The other thing is speaking
of litigation, and Larry was in a lot of cases
the Jerry Follwell litigation that turned out to his advantage
as well, and it's an important Supreme Court case. Remind
my listeners about that particular one.

Speaker 14 (57:23):
Well, Larry put out a parody satire in Huster magazine
back in eighty three, and it was a compari ad
and at the bottom of the ad it said not
to be taken serious, and it was making reference to
Jerry follow his first time in an outhouse with his mother. Well,

(57:48):
obviously he didn't like that, and he sued Larry, and
Larry lost at lower cart and then Larry appealed and
went to the US Supreme Court and they accepted his case,
and well, Larry prevailed and had the Chief Justice Rehnquist

(58:10):
write the majority opinion. Larry was very shocked too, because
it was the preacher versus pornographer. But we all benefit
from this landmark case. It's taught in all law schools
all over the country.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
Right of course, I went through that case when I
was in law school. And I mean, Liz, can you
imagine the Internet had Larry lost that case? Considering I mean,
every single day you're confronted with parodies of all shapes
and forms. You know, quite often they're informative, quite often
they're extremely funny, sometimes offensive. But I just can't imagine

(58:52):
a world with the Internet age without that particular case.

Speaker 14 (58:56):
As president, absolutely so, comedians all over the country like
Bill Maher, Jeffrey Ross even back then, Jay Leno, that
you could say something hurt someone's feelings and not be
charged or prosecuted or jailed.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Now I have to ask you this, considering you know
this is the greater Cincinnati area. Does former Hamilton County
Prosecutor Fred Cardolano or Simon LEAs Junior's name come up
in the book by any chance?

Speaker 3 (59:30):
No?

Speaker 1 (59:30):
They Okay, I know that Simon Lease was not a
fan of your late husband.

Speaker 14 (59:38):
No. But you know, at the end of the day,
this coffee table book, it is five decades of Husser
magazine and the brand meaning the best cartoons, illustrations, publishers, statements,
and there's a lot more are Larry's political views. And

(59:59):
what makes it so nice it's you see the change
in the decades and it's the best of And I
think that I'm bringing something to Cincinnati that they lived
through it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Yes, we certainly did. It was a much more Victorian
era and it wasn't even that long ago. I mean,
I'll be sixty in September, Liz, and I remember when
all these cases were pending, when he was being prosecuted
for obscenity, and by Simon Leees, and of course I
remember and he was having to go through the Supreme
Court era with the free speech case which was in

(01:00:35):
that the movie featuring Woody Harrelson, who I understand did
a forward in your book.

Speaker 14 (01:00:40):
Absolutely, I reached out to Woody and asked him he
could write the forward for this book because obviously he
played Larry in The People versus Larry Flint, and Woody
is from Ohio, Lebanon, Ohio. It made perfect sense and
he will. After the movie, him and Larry became very

(01:01:01):
close friends, and it was just a beautiful friendship, relationship,
loving relationship, and he did want a beautiful forward and
tribute to it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Larry Flint, how about that? Now you know the story,
you know the movie. Is the movie accurate? I mean
quite often movies of Hollywood take liberties with facts and issues,
and I'm just wondering if the movie accurately depicts that
that period of time, if I may boil it down
to that, well, I.

Speaker 14 (01:01:30):
Asked my husband when they were filming down in Nashville, Tennessee.
I said, Larry, how would you see this movie? Would
you say they've got a lot right or obviously Hollywood's
selling a movie, they got to embellish it a little bit,
and he said, for what was their list, they just
about got a lot of the scenes, especially the court scenes.

(01:01:52):
And yes, that profile of Simon Leeese was depicted there
by James Carr, and I think that. I think Milos
Forman did a very excellent job portraying Larry and all
the other characters in the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
No, I thoroughly enjoyed the film. Again, I just was asking,
for the sake of historical accuracy, if I should view
it with a measure of skepticism. I interviewed one of
the the World War Two veterans who was in stalog
I was three the story behind the Great Escape, and
he said, with the exception of the motorcycle stunts, that

(01:02:31):
movie accurately depicted everything they went through and in escaping
from the prison camp in World War Two. So nice
to know the information I see. I have notes here
Liz the author again of Excuse Me Hustler fifty to
fifty Years of Freedom. Pete Rose's name is listed here
another local icon.

Speaker 14 (01:02:51):
Yes, so Larry knew him back in the day when
he had the hust clothes Downtown Downtown Cincinnati, and then
later Larry got in touch with Pete Rose. He was
living in Las Vegas and and whenever you would come
to Los Angeles, he would have lunch with Larry at
the Peninsula in Beverly Hills. So it was very nice

(01:03:13):
to meet him and Larry was It was very beautiful
for him to connect because Larry passed away and so
did Pete.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
So yeah, very nice. Well local icon. Pete Rose was
and a fan of Charles Bukowski.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
I am.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
I noted from the notes that there were features by
Charles Bukowski in Hustler. Hustle was not just photographs of
scanty or without closed women, also contained a lot of
interesting writing. I think of a guy like Hunter S. Thompson,
very cutting edge, you know, gonzo journalist, but he also
had a lot of interesting articles like that Timothy Leary

(01:03:49):
as well.

Speaker 14 (01:03:51):
Yes, so you know, when my husband was publishing the magazine,
he was very passionate about, you know, his political stories
and illustrations. And that's where part of the magazine got
its vitality. It wasn't just a magazine of photo sets
of women, but it had a little bit more to offer.

(01:04:14):
And that's why I call it, this book of fifty
years in entertainment. I know there is something for everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
There seven five here at fifty five Kerseity Talk Station
and a very very happy Flag Day Wednesday, and an
extra special day here on the fifty five Carssee Morning
Show because I am blessed and grace to be in
the presence of ninety six year old World War Two
veteran Frank Wettencamp, who former Anderson Township trustee. Drew Papps,
who's also in studio, was kind enough to bring and

(01:04:41):
arrange for Frank to appear on the fifty five KRSE
Morning Show. Frank, A real honor to have you here
in my studio today, sir. Let me start by thanking
you for your service to our country.

Speaker 13 (01:04:51):
I'm glad to be here, and.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
I guess we'll thank your mom for letting you enlist
in the United States military at the age of seventeen.

Speaker 13 (01:05:00):
Yes, we had. Mom had five kids in the service.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Oh five kids. I think you were going to say
mom had five kids and she wanted the house.

Speaker 13 (01:05:09):
No, wait, she had fifteen kids.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Five and fifteen kids. Yes, wow, what part of the
country you grow up in?

Speaker 4 (01:05:18):
We from here, this local area.

Speaker 13 (01:05:20):
Well, the first thing I remember is Erie Avenue. I
was about five years old, you know, and I remember
things about that. But and then from there we went
to Madisonville. Depression hit. Dad was cut down to three

(01:05:43):
days a week. Had a good job, but three days,
fifteen pair of shoes and you know. So he moved
us out to Mount Holly, which is past Amelia, and
had a farm and we had a truck garden, chickens, cow,
we had milk and you know, short food from that

(01:06:05):
dead had. He had to work in the city, okay,
twenty five miles away, and he took a bus. He's
not a good driver. In fact, what happened is he
finally bought a car and he had two wrecks. So
we had to move out. This is gonna be a

(01:06:26):
funny story. But my sister June, who was four years
older than me, made sure that I went to school
every morning and we had to catch a bus. So
June got me dressed and we went out, caught the bus,
went to school. We come home from school, okay, and

(01:06:46):
the house was empty. They had moved. Oh, the whole
family had moved while.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
You were at school.

Speaker 13 (01:06:54):
Yeah, oh my god, Well it had too many people
to count. It's like story, that's yeah, So we stood there.
What the hell you do? You know I'm five years old?
You know she's nine. So uh. Luckily the man next

(01:07:18):
door worked at the railroad in town at nighttime, Man
Mad and mister Ross, God bless him. He saw his
standing there and he says, you're a family have moved,
you know, He said, I know where they went. Give me,
give me a couple of minutes and I get dressed
and I'll take you there.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
So I go to work, right, and he did.

Speaker 13 (01:07:41):
He dropped us off at Lost three up in Coreyville.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
So what was the reaction from uh, from mom and
day when you showed up at the door, Like, Mom,
what the hell's going on?

Speaker 4 (01:07:50):
You moved away? Anything? Nothing?

Speaker 13 (01:07:53):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
There you are?

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Wow?

Speaker 13 (01:07:55):
Well, many times I had a brother year younger than me,
and one two years. We were the three Musketeers. We
traveled all over the city and you knew everything. I
shined shoes when I was eight years old.

Speaker 4 (01:08:11):
All about it.

Speaker 13 (01:08:11):
I could get in the bars. My dad was a
professional fighter, okay, and all the bouncers knew him. So
I was shining shoes for about a year. And anyway,
I don't want to get the story on the shoes.

Speaker 4 (01:08:29):
Yeah, well okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
Anyway, he's already warned you about, you know, our dump
button in language issues, which we can all joke around
off air as much as we want. Yeah, you gotta
watch ourselves a lot of air. Yeah okay. So fast
forward to age seventeen. Had you graduated from high school already?

Speaker 13 (01:08:46):
Yeah, he just had graduated. In fact, the idea that
I had to graduate to get the Marquette University to
study to be in a navy pilot.

Speaker 4 (01:08:56):
Okay.

Speaker 13 (01:08:57):
Otherwise I was going to go because most of my
end when they became seventeen, they enlisted.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
Okay, so everybody around you was doing that.

Speaker 13 (01:09:06):
Yeah, see I was going to pick up school afterwards,
which would they do?

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
And I want to dwell on that whole that little
aspect right there, it's a very important one. Not to
discount by saying little. But you joined, all of your
friends were joining. You wanted to join and serve. Were
your motivations patriotism, revenge for the for Pearl Harbor, just
because everybody else was doing it inside?

Speaker 4 (01:09:32):
What were you thinking? What was driving you to want
to enlist?

Speaker 13 (01:09:35):
I don't think kids my age were too much into it.
You know, they realized what happened. I remember on a
Sunday morning hearing it. You know, but you were an
oddball if you didn't go in.

Speaker 4 (01:09:52):
Pure pressure. Yeah four if see, you didn't want that label.

Speaker 13 (01:09:57):
Didn't want that label. See. The funny thing is I
went down with four guys and I was the only
one selected. One guy only had one eye. You didn't
know it, you know, Yeah, he didn't tell anybody. Yeah.
One guy got in an argument with the recruiting guy
and he made it a purpose to say that you were.

Speaker 4 (01:10:20):
Insubordinate.

Speaker 13 (01:10:21):
No, it was uh, he he was color blind. But
the army took him. Yeah, the Navy. You know, this
guy was mad's as well. He's not going to get
in the navy, you know. So uh and the other
guy had a lot of problems. Okay, so uh So
I was selected and I went off by myself.

Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
By yourself? And what was where were you first assigned?

Speaker 13 (01:10:49):
After I went the Great Legs.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Uh that's the one up in Chicago.

Speaker 13 (01:10:54):
R Yeah, boot what they call boot camp, and then uh,
they wanted me. They tell you what you're good for,
and they said, well you can join gunnery school. So
I went to gunnery school. I come out first into school.
They sent me to Pontiac, Michigan by myself, and I

(01:11:18):
was studying new guns that they were developing in Pontiac, Michigan.
So I had an expertise in that that nobody else had,
except a few guys that were there with me from
different schools. So after that, I got a paper that says,

(01:11:42):
go pick up a ship in Seattle. Okay, So I'm
on the train going to Seattle. The ship wasn't ready
to be fitted. They sent me a shoemaker. They put
me on short patrol. I remember saving the Marines. But

(01:12:05):
because he's fighting with some Mexican kid down and you know,
I advance and this special cop wants to beat him up,
and me and the special cop went around a circle.
Because I was short patrol, I said, I'll take care
of him, you know. So I did the little things
that's going to come to my mind. So anyway, then

(01:12:29):
the ship was ready. I go up to Puget Sound,
pick up the ship and we head out. And the
next thing, we're laying off of one guom Tinny Anne
and tie end. We're all tied in together and our
ship was sitting there waiting for an escort, and all

(01:12:54):
of a sudden I get a call from my ordance
officer and I meet him up on the deck and
he said, you're being transferred to fleet Marines. Okay, so
they you go what they tell you to do, you know?
So I said, okay, what happened? So I was transferred
to an LCM, which is a different ship than mine.

(01:13:17):
I had an lsd uh which was called landing ship.
So uh, I stayed there with these marines on this
LCM and finally we hit the beach. Lady, Ah, it's
not like the movies. Believe me, I can tell you.

(01:13:38):
Going into that beach is not.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
Like the movie under Fire.

Speaker 13 (01:13:43):
Well, I don't know what. Luckily, we were not under fire.
It was like the fourth Landing.

Speaker 4 (01:13:49):
Okay.

Speaker 13 (01:13:51):
In fact, the funny thing that happened is being the
only Navy man amongst these marines. Somebody was sending semaphore
with the flags on the beach, yeah, and uh I
could read it, so I was reading it to him.
Ended up saying welcome Marines about okay, And when we

(01:14:15):
got on the beach, you hear it was a native girl.
Some marine must have taught must have tottered to do
the flags.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
Well, I'll tell you, sir, I would much much rather
be greeted by a Native girl than the end of
a bayonet or a heavy fire machine gun.

Speaker 4 (01:14:30):
As he landed on the beach.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Real quick here, because we're gonna have to take a break.
We'll come back and hear more from you and again.
World War two veteran Frank wetting Camp in studio. You said,
it's nothing like they show in the movies, and that
immediately made me think of like Omaha Beach or one
of the landings where you're under fire. You said you
were like the fourth waves of the beach had been secured.
When you say, nothing like the movies.

Speaker 13 (01:14:48):
No, but we didn't know that.

Speaker 4 (01:14:50):
Oh okay, so you know you were expecting there.

Speaker 13 (01:14:53):
Was no joke. You know, Hey, you know this is
a rough ride, and you know all the movies, right right,
they got to stay something.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
Yeah, quiet, quiet, definitely quiet. Yeah, let's pause from it.
We'll continue with World War Two veteran Frank Wedding Camp.
Ryan Thomas enjoying so far, and I'm certin for the
balance of the hour of my conversation with World War
two veteran ninety six year old Frank wedding camp enlisted
at seventeen. Sounded like peer pressure had a lot to
do with it. And he probably served his country in

(01:15:25):
World War Two and actually after that as well. We're
gonna get more details. When last we left Frank in
our story, he was landing on the beach. Was it
was guaem was it not?

Speaker 4 (01:15:37):
Lady?

Speaker 13 (01:15:38):
Yeah? And where MacArthur went in.

Speaker 4 (01:15:40):
Where MacArthur went in, yeah, and lady and.

Speaker 13 (01:15:42):
You went in four times.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
I shouldn't tell the return was more successful if I recall,
but yeah, but you were met by a lady when
you when you landed on the beach, which I love.
I love that part of the story, Frank, that's hilarious.
So what was what happened next?

Speaker 13 (01:16:02):
Well, I land on the beach. I was supposed to
set up the gun that I studied in Pontiac, which
is a ninety millimeter gun aircraft to keep the Japanese
planes from straff and the guys on the beach. Okay, okay,
And what happened? MacArthur was furious. I can tell you that, okay,

(01:16:24):
because I ended up at this U, the capital of Lady,
because the gun didn't show up. I had nothing to do.
They took me up to Kokolopin, Okay, which was the capital,
and MacArthur's making his four landings. He fell down.

Speaker 1 (01:16:43):
I forgot about that, that's right.

Speaker 13 (01:16:45):
Yeah, you know, yeah he was a great general, but he,
you know, he was just had that type of thing that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
Had to be perfect, present a certain proection.

Speaker 4 (01:16:57):
Aura about made more deals.

Speaker 13 (01:16:58):
I'm gonna tell you about the deal. Anyway. So anyway,
there I was, Truman drops the bomb. The war's over.
I think I'm going home. So I get a paper
report to FASU number three, Okay, which I didn't know

(01:17:20):
what was floating ammunition storeach three. So I go to
Subic Bay, Okay. I go to Subic Bay. I pick
up twenty two American prisoners. They volunteered to help me
do what I was doing, Okay, And then if we

(01:17:41):
got it done, they were allowed to go home instead
of back to prison. And that was the deal with them.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Oh, they were imprisoned by American Americans. This was in prison.
These were guys who ran a fast of US military.

Speaker 13 (01:17:57):
I see, yeah, yeah, they were they were a bundle
of the Yeah, they were a bundle of the handle.
I'm gonna tell you, you know, because someone was a
little psychle you know. Oh sure, I had a monkey name,
you know, and uh, in fact, I had two of them,
but I had one and he was going to be

(01:18:19):
And this redhead guy from Saint Louis, he come over
and I catch him taking a half of an orange
and rubbing it into Monky's face. So, you know, you
gotta be I told him, look, your men, you keep
your place clean. I'm not gonna be on your butt, okay.

(01:18:39):
And if everything's if you don't keep it clean, you're
the guy that don't keep his place clean. He's going
to clean up for everybody else. And that was the deal.
And they they volunteered on everything.

Speaker 4 (01:18:53):
See, and your job was to dispose of.

Speaker 13 (01:18:55):
We were Our job, as far as the country was concerned,
was to dump this ammunition. They already here's the point.
They already had a crew there. So why did they
take that crew away and bring us in? Okay? So

(01:19:16):
I thought to myself, something's wrong here. So I got
real close. There were seventeen huts on the edge of
the beach. We were stationed in a bay about one
hundred yards away, no, not even that far, maybe seventy
five but they were lined up on the beach, seventeen huts. Okay,

(01:19:40):
all native up in the hill was a pack of
communists gorillas, Okay, and we knew all this. I got
real close with sal who was the chief of the village.
He was a captain in the Philippine Gorillas. What happened

(01:20:00):
when MacArthur made the deal for getting them prisoners out
of Manila before the Japs killed them. They made a
movie of it, you remember. And he made a deal
with the communist gorillas. There was a Japanese camp here,

(01:20:22):
in the Japanese camp here, okay. So he made a
deal if the communist gorillas would make sure that these
did not bother the escape.

Speaker 4 (01:20:35):
Route, right, the Japanese camps.

Speaker 13 (01:20:37):
Yeah, the Japanese and the America and the Philippine gorillas
were on this side stopping the other one on okay.
And they had to take them out and carts with
donkeys and you know, and oxen. So it was a
slow process.

Speaker 4 (01:20:53):
See.

Speaker 13 (01:20:55):
So the deal was if they if the communists hell,
he would not bother him, I see, Okay, gave them
that promise. Okay. So now we're sitting here, that's here,

(01:21:15):
calming us up here, Okay. It didn't take long to
figure we were an American, we were an American presence.

Speaker 4 (01:21:28):
Okay, ye.

Speaker 13 (01:21:30):
So, and it came about to me because I kept
in touch with them. I used to stay at the village.
They called me. They made me a little catamarand that
I could run all around. We bought fruit and vegetables.
They had chickens, we had eggs, and we became very close.

(01:21:53):
I gave them blocks of TNT to blow up the fish.
You know. I gave them car beans.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
If you're making fun, you're making friends with the locals,
the load natives. They love you. You got Commi's up here
in the hills. You got Japanese camp over here. And
this is again after the war is over right, they're
still there though. There's and MacArthur making deals with everybody
to get our prisoners out of the area to help
you destroy munitions at sea.

Speaker 4 (01:22:21):
That was That was a cover, all right, that's the cover.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
Now let's posset when we'll get the rest of the story,
because we've got to take a break in the interest
of keeping the show on the air. Happy to have
in studio. World War Two veteran ninety six year old
Frank Wetton Camp talking about his service towards the end
of the and then after World War Two when we
last left him. He's on Guam and he is along
with former US prisoners that will be prisoners because they

(01:22:45):
violated US military law. And they have been assigned, this
whole ragtag group that you're in charge of, Frank, have
been assigned to destroy what's left over of the ordinance
after the war. So the commis in the Hills can't
get it right? Is that really where we are on this?

Speaker 3 (01:22:58):
Well?

Speaker 13 (01:23:00):
We are? Is it? I kept I kept in touch
with them. Rudolph Gloria was a nephew of the guy
say Away. We wrote back and forth when I came home, Okay,
And the last letter I got said that sal the
chief Okay was kidnapped by the communists. Our presence was gone.

(01:23:27):
Oh they took off, the whole village took off and
went to Manila.

Speaker 1 (01:23:35):
Okay, because the comedies were taken over.

Speaker 13 (01:23:37):
Because they come down here and took over the whole village.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
So you were you your force was the stabilizing force.
You guys kept the peace among these different.

Speaker 13 (01:23:46):
Facts until MacArthur pulled the plug.

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
And once you're gone the comedies move in and they
fought a civil war then cost okay.

Speaker 13 (01:23:56):
The Marco was ahead of the Communists, no, ahead of
the and he became president. His wife had three thousand pair.

Speaker 1 (01:24:05):
Of shoes, that's right. So that's where they came from.

Speaker 13 (01:24:11):
He was he was a nice guy.

Speaker 1 (01:24:13):
Yeah, well, you know it's interesting anyways, because you all
right and beat the connies doesn't mean that you're gonna
end up necessarily better off.

Speaker 13 (01:24:21):
Yeah, Sue Big Bay where I was at, you said,
go on, But Sue b where I was at, it's
now as a resort. They got a golf course. Yeah,
they've got The water was beautiful, I mean absolutely beautiful.
You know, I met people on a cruise who were
school teachers from Philippines and we talked about, you know,

(01:24:43):
what happened. So anyway, that was the end of that,
you know. But just a quirky thing. You know, that
happens in the service. It happens. You know. I never
got to shoot the ninety millimeters gun. I spent monch.

Speaker 4 (01:25:00):
I moved all over the place.

Speaker 13 (01:25:02):
I'll tell you. I was all trades, one man. You know,
last scene, nobody wants his job. Frank's you call Frank.

Speaker 4 (01:25:12):
Frank, He'll do it. He'll do anything. Frank muttin camp.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
We're gonna pause right now, we'll come back. We'll find
out what it was like returning after the combat, after
the service to the United States neighborhood, change your reactions
with other people who served in the general environment and folks,
if you'd like to call, say word to two to
Frank feel free five one, three, seven, four nine, fifty
eight hundred and eight two three talk seven thirty nine.
Here fifty five Krcity Talk Station, an extra special flag

(01:25:37):
Day Here at fifty five KRC Morning Show with World
War two veteran ninety six year old Frank went and
camp in studio and as promised, I was gonna go
to the funds before we find out about Frank's triumphant
return from World War Two. We have a couple of callers.
We're going to start with ten year old Jackson. Jackson,
thanks for calling this morning. I know you have a
couple of things and words is talking to say to Frank.

(01:25:58):
Welcome to the morning show.

Speaker 5 (01:26:00):
If you don't want me, sir, what branch were you
and did you see any battles when you were in
World War Two?

Speaker 13 (01:26:13):
Actually the kind of ship I was on, Jackson, is
it Jackson? Yeah, Jackson, there's all kinds of ships. And
our ship was only had guns for any aircraft. We
didn't have the big guns like the other ones did,
so we never knew whether we hit somebody or hurt

(01:26:36):
them or anything, you know, And so we missed that
kind of action. We shot the guns a lot, but
we didn't know whether we hurt somebody, you know. And
of course that helps when you come home because you
don't have that problem in your mind. Oh yeah, you see,

(01:26:59):
you know. So I was lucky, Jackson, and I appreciate
you calling me and asking me about that.

Speaker 4 (01:27:07):
Jackson, thanks man for the call.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
So Navy and you did fight, but you didn't see
the people you were bombing.

Speaker 4 (01:27:14):
Clear distinction on that one. Gun guns guns.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
All right, let's move to the phone. A friend of mine, Cribbage,
Mike Cribbage. Mike was a sub mariner and he probably
served his country. He's a little younger than you, I
got to point out, Cribbage, Mike. Welcome to the show.
Now you have a few words for Frank wetting Camp.

Speaker 12 (01:27:30):
Yes, sir, welcome gentlemen, and Frank, thank you for your service.
I'm glad to see you chose the best service that'd.

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
Be in the Navy.

Speaker 13 (01:27:37):
There you go.

Speaker 12 (01:27:40):
You and my father may have swapped the same footsteps
because my dad was in the fourth Marine Division, twenty
fourth Regiment, and he did land on Saidpan Tenny and
Andy Rejima. So he spoke very highly of you guys
that transported him to those beaches, and unfortunately he did
see a lot of action there Injima. By the grace
of God, he did make it home. So did you

(01:28:02):
ever have any opportunities to run across some of our
diesel boat submariners and your towards of duty.

Speaker 13 (01:28:09):
No, I didn't. I was pushed all over the place
pretty much. But I appreciate these guys. I went into
the beach, you know, and I realized what they had
to go through just just to get in that boat
and go in and not know what they're facing. That's

(01:28:30):
a different that's a different feeling all together than what
I was used to because I was honest.

Speaker 12 (01:28:36):
This morning reminds me so much of the stories that
we would sit and talk my dad had. He did
share a lot with us towards the life for him. Yes, sir,
and and as Brian knows, I'm involved with on a flight.
Drew Pappas has been over there a lot too, and
it is an honor of privilege to be there four
times a year to shake people like your hand, because

(01:28:59):
without you, we would not be here today living in
this country. Thank you, sir am.

Speaker 13 (01:29:03):
I feel very humble about that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:06):
Thank you So Mariner Mike appreciate the call it. I
know Frank does as well. And see what Tom has
to say. Tom from Hamilton has a word or two
for you.

Speaker 4 (01:29:12):
Frank. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
Tom.

Speaker 8 (01:29:15):
First of all, thanks for his service. And I'm also
another Navy man. I was stationed in Civic Bay. Also,
do you remember the down name Alonapoll.

Speaker 13 (01:29:27):
Along a pool? Absolutely? Yeah, yeah, quite a little town.
Wasn't quite a little town.

Speaker 14 (01:29:35):
Here we go.

Speaker 13 (01:29:36):
I was right by it.

Speaker 6 (01:29:38):
I was.

Speaker 13 (01:29:39):
I had something I did THEMB. I had these prisoners
and they wanted to celebrate a birthday and I sent
them into the law to at to p X to
get something and they end up. They were wayward kids
like and they end up and they end up in
a long a pool and the Marines picked a up

(01:30:02):
and put them in the prison. And I came over
and tried to get them out, but they had broken
their promise and they send them back. And I really
was saying about that I couldn't do anything about it.
I told the Breen lieutenant, come on, give him a break.
They've had enough problem, but he couldn't do anything about it.

Speaker 4 (01:30:26):
Tom.

Speaker 1 (01:30:26):
Thank you for your service to our country. I appreciate
you calling in today. I think we can get Jay's calling. Jay,
thanks for calling this morning. Welcome to the program, and
I'll introduce you to Frank Wettingcam. Frank.

Speaker 4 (01:30:36):
This is Jay.

Speaker 11 (01:30:37):
Good morning, Frank. Thank you for your service. Thank you
so much for your service. I really appreciate it. I'm
glad to hear the callers calling in. And I don't
know if we can ever, you know, do enough. Thank
you doesn't seem to be enough, but man, we appreciate it.

Speaker 13 (01:30:54):
Well. Listen, I give talks on Veteran's Day and I
always leave with the thought that these kids that are
listening to me, we'll ever have to go to war.
Oh wow, amen, everybody, which is the same thing. And
thanks for calling, and I appreciate.

Speaker 4 (01:31:14):
Your appreciate it.

Speaker 15 (01:31:16):
Jay.

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
John, You're gonna have to hang on again and go
into a break here, but I love me just real
quickly as as Drew and uh, Frank wetting Camp are
Vietnam World War two veteran been talking back and forth,
and Drew has been remarkably silent. Drew was singing Frank's praises,
not only I mean we know from me saying it
over and over this morning. Frank's ninety six. The man

(01:31:36):
is in amazing health. He still lives inde penalty. He
golfs every week. He's up there painting his own porch
or painting his own house. It's like, how the hell
you painting your own house? He goes, what I got
a scaffold out? Next It's like, I don't even paint
my own house. Frank, you are absolutely amazing. We've got
one more segment with Frank Wetton Camp and Jay or
John Rather. You'll be the first call out of the

(01:31:56):
gate five one, three, seven, four nine fifty five undred,
eight hundred and eight two three talk seven forty nine
I fift You have Kercity Talk Station, A true celebration
of Flag Day with Frank Wettingcamp. He's our ninety six
year old in studio, World War two veteran still going strong,
and he certainly can. He's got a great recollection of
memory about his time at World War Two. And we

(01:32:17):
got one more caller online to ask you a question.

Speaker 4 (01:32:19):
John.

Speaker 1 (01:32:20):
It's John John. Welcome to the program. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 15 (01:32:24):
Good morning, Brian. Thanks, I have a question from mister Wetcam. First,
thank you for your service and being part of the
men and women of the Greatest generation. And every morning
I wake up and look at the news, I'm picking
you people get greater every day, which there were more
of these around.

Speaker 13 (01:32:39):
True, Thank you, Thank you, Joe.

Speaker 9 (01:32:42):
I'd like I did some.

Speaker 15 (01:32:43):
I read a couple of books about MacArthur, and I
wonder what you Bluewater sailors thought of MacArthur when you
were in the theater over there, because I know in
some of the books he wasn't a huge fan of
the navy, and what you guys at the shipboard level
thought of him.

Speaker 13 (01:33:06):
We just knew that he was a good general in
his moves, like when he went in the incheon in Korea.
You know, I had a brother who was a frog
man for thirty years and he he talks about having
to do this under MacArthur. But you know, and I had.

(01:33:28):
I didn't give much of a talk to anybody about MacArthur.
But he was a deal maker, you know. Obviously made
some deals in the Philippines that I reiterated. But he

(01:33:49):
was mad at the Navy, and i'll tell you why.
When he landed in Lady Halsey with his four aircraft
carriers was supposed to keep the Japanese planes away, but

(01:34:09):
the Japanese decided they sent out three decoy aircraft carriers
and were traveling north. They drew Maguarth up with They
drew Halsey away from Lady Beach after them. He wanted

(01:34:31):
to kill all of those aircraft carriers. So MacArthur and
him had a real falling out over that. Because Lady
Golf at the time was the biggest worst naval battle
that ever happened. They had the most ships. One incident

(01:34:55):
was the Johnson destroyer going after a bat battleship and
when they Japanese sunk it, the admiral of the ship
that sunk it lined all his men up and saluted
the Johnson as it went down, and uh and then

(01:35:15):
veered off. And that's uh and Halsey uh, So that
was one incident, but him and Nimmits never got along.
Nimtz did not want to go into Aara, They did
not want to go to three different He said, we
can blockade the Philippines, cut off all their supplies and

(01:35:38):
let them starve the death. We don't have to land
people there. They didn't have to land a Mettoia Palah,
two different islands. And Nimbus worse against it. But Truman, Uh,
not Truman, but Roosevelt at the time. Okay, MacArthur had

(01:36:01):
to go into the Philippines. But because of his promise.

Speaker 1 (01:36:05):
His promise, Yeah, he made the promise out loud, and
I'm glad he did. John, Thanks for the call, man,
really appreciate that. Before we wind up, I wanted to
bring up the Sonise Foundation because it was through the
Gary Sneeze Foundation that you and Drew Pappus, our silent
guests today met Drew. You can chime in on this
the story of how you met Frank and how you

(01:36:25):
came to be friends.

Speaker 4 (01:36:27):
Yeah. Thanks.

Speaker 16 (01:36:28):
First of all, five years ago, Colonel Todd Mayer arranged
for the sydneyse Foundation to take approximately forty one World
War two veterans and forty one guardians down to the
World War Two Museum in New Orleans. And if you
ever get a chance to go to New Orleans for
any other purpose, go for the World War Two museum

(01:36:50):
down there at National World War Two Museum. It is
it is great. And so I was assigned through luck
Frank at got the best guardian and that was me.
And you Yeah, that's right, that's true, and be half
of that is right.

Speaker 4 (01:37:06):
Anyway, I'll tell you what.

Speaker 16 (01:37:07):
They treated us like gold. They treated they the first
class all the way. I mean, Honor Flight does a
fantastic job. I mean, you know, week in, week out,
month and month out. The Sidneys Foundation much along the
same lines, took care of everything.

Speaker 4 (01:37:22):
And it was an experience. It was. It was.

Speaker 16 (01:37:24):
I was talking to Todd Mayor last night and Frank
will vouch for this. It was a trip of a lifetime.
It was first class and I got to experience. And
it was for three days, three.

Speaker 13 (01:37:34):
Ninth three days.

Speaker 16 (01:37:36):
And you know, forty guys, forty World War Two veterans,
some of which we had to carry on and off
the buses.

Speaker 4 (01:37:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:37:43):
Jack Snyder from the West Side was there. Rest in
peace he had you know, he passed away a few
years ago. Remember Jack and just hearing the stories with
these guys was something that cannot be replicated, can't be
can't be recreated.

Speaker 4 (01:37:57):
Really, it was just amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:37:58):
And we've been pals ever sense that's fantastic, And thank
you Drew for bringing Frank and Frank coming in. It
has been a distinct pleasure having you in my studio
to talk to you, to hear your you know, the
stories that you recall from World War Two, and the
fact I know that you're still out there speaking to
young people.

Speaker 4 (01:38:15):
That is outstanding.

Speaker 1 (01:38:16):
You're a real true treasure and uh, we don't have
enough of you around anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:38:21):
That's it. That's a real shame and reality of life. It
marches on.

Speaker 1 (01:38:24):
But thank you for passing along the love and the
lessons learned for World War Two.

Speaker 13 (01:38:29):
Okay, my friend, I was glad to do it. And
a little plug for Andy here. He had us at
the what what the hell was that place? Oh yeah,
on Veterans today. We had people coming. It was up last.

Speaker 4 (01:38:51):
Yeah, we had a bunch of.

Speaker 16 (01:38:53):
Tod did I just helped out a little bit, very small,
but you know, I got to tell you this is
a treasure people need to take part in. I mean,
this is something. We're losing more and more.

Speaker 4 (01:39:04):
People every day. Obviously it's the way life is.

Speaker 16 (01:39:07):
But I mean the fact that we've connected and connected
with so many other veterans and so many other great
guys and girls. It's just it's an honor. It really
is an audio for me to be at least here,
you know, and we're gonna go have breakfast after this.

Speaker 4 (01:39:21):
Enjoy it. Yeah, they have a couple of cocktails. Wid
This guy sounds a.

Speaker 1 (01:39:24):
Fun guy to hang out with.

Speaker 4 (01:39:25):
Frank's a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:39:26):
He definitely is. Frank a distinct pleasure. God bless you
for your service to our country and spending time in
the studio today with my listeners in celebration of Flag
Day and an honor of you, my friend eight thirty
fifty gout FIRCD talk Station. Very Happy Monday today made
you an extra special happy because the return of Mandy
Gunnas Sakara, author of Y'all Fired, a Southern Mills Guide.

(01:39:47):
You're restoring federalism and draining the swamp we had around
in October when the book first came out. She spent
at the center of the US energy and environmental policy
for a full decade from the Senate cloak Room to
the Oval office of Veteran environmental attorney, energy strategist, and
community cater served during President Trump's first term as chief
of staff at the US Environmental Protection Agency. Currently a
visiting fellow the Heritage Foundation, and welcome back. It is

(01:40:08):
a real pleasure to have you back on the show, Mandy.

Speaker 17 (01:40:11):
Yeah, good to be with you.

Speaker 9 (01:40:12):
Brian.

Speaker 1 (01:40:13):
I mean, can I just sort of sum up what
I think your perception is that this DOGE Department is
like the answer to your dreams?

Speaker 17 (01:40:22):
Yeah, I think he summed it up. Well, it really is.

Speaker 18 (01:40:24):
And it's man, it's such a beautiful thing to see
because having been on the inside, even in my position
as chief of staff and the access to the information.

Speaker 17 (01:40:35):
That I had, it was hard to paint the whole picture.

Speaker 18 (01:40:39):
You could pinpoint specific types of waste, fraud or abuse
or redundancies and efficiencies.

Speaker 17 (01:40:45):
You could pinpoint those sorts of things.

Speaker 18 (01:40:47):
But it really is a beautiful thing where you have
someone like Elon and his really talented team of software
engineers going and looking at the data and then painting
a big picture in ways that all of us can
understand and all of us can see, and is an
absolute misuse of taxpayer resources.

Speaker 17 (01:41:03):
So yeah, it's an answer to a lot of prayers.

Speaker 1 (01:41:04):
Actually, well, sunlight, it's a great disinfect and lord knows,
we're getting a lot of it. And one of the
problems that I'm sure you probably during your period of
time in the administration, we're as frustrated as anybody else
the obstructionism that comes when when people that are responsible
for the oversight of our dollars, subcommittees, committees, the congressmen,
the congress women, the senators, when they're told basically go

(01:41:26):
to hell when they ask for information.

Speaker 18 (01:41:29):
Yeah, really, I know, I know, it's it's really frustrating,
and it's you know, that is part of their responsibility.
Their responsibility is to report back to the public how
they're using these funds and what it's actually doing. But
it's not just the members of Congress, I mean you,
it's also these bureaucrats, these entrenched deep state bureaucrats.

Speaker 17 (01:41:48):
And here's the truth.

Speaker 18 (01:41:50):
There is a there is a crisis of expertise on
Capitol Hill.

Speaker 17 (01:41:55):
Frankly, you have a.

Speaker 18 (01:41:56):
Lot of people there that don't really know what they're doing,
so they're hot wholly dependent on deep state bureaucrats. Who've
been working at their job for thirty years to give
them information they don't otherwise know how to get. So
that's how the deep state works. They don't give them
all the information. Maybe they give them a little drip
drip here. But it's been many decades of this type
of imbalance between an agency funded to eight at the

(01:42:21):
tune of eight billion dollars and as EPA is an example,
with that oversight staff of less than.

Speaker 17 (01:42:27):
Two million dollars trying to perform oversight, and.

Speaker 18 (01:42:30):
So you just have this massive mismatch and the resulting
consequences is just decades of layers of complexity and us
not knowing how our resources are spent well.

Speaker 1 (01:42:40):
And it's also seemed to be very obviously a just
simple lack of care of how money is spent. I mean,
Musk over the weekend was talking about, you know, over
looking at through the Department of Treasury, right Treasury department,
and he says, you know, I was told that there
were currently over one hundred million dollars a year of
in time went payments individual with no social Security number,

(01:43:01):
even a temporary ID number. And see, you know, he
pulls the room and Treasury he says what percentage of
that is unequivocal obvious fraud, And the consensus in the
room was at least fifty billion dollars of it. That's
something that's simple to fix. Look, no social Security number,
no ID, you don't get any money. How hard is that?

Speaker 18 (01:43:21):
It shouldn't be difficult at all? But that's what these agencies,
they've just become all about, constantly asking for more money.
There is no incentive for the everyday bureaucrat to find
ways to be incentive, to find ways to cut costs
and to be truthful about the expenditure of those costs.
And there's this this mentality, this culture in DC that

(01:43:44):
people are almost entitled to these taxpayer resources, and when
you come in and you ask questions, they like to
pretend like they're these global do gooders and they're saying, oh,
but this poor person is going to lose access to
these resources that they really need. Meanwhile, that person isn't
even getting the fund. To the extent they're getting any
it's barely enough to actually live.

Speaker 17 (01:44:04):
But you know, it's coming off the top.

Speaker 18 (01:44:05):
A fair amount is coming off the top and going
to nonprofits that either pad them personally or their relatives
or just grow the power of the left, which is
ultimately what they want.

Speaker 1 (01:44:15):
Yeah, non governmental organizations NGOs, you know, and quite a
the ole. We're five oh one c three, we're not
for profit. Yeah, but you're making a salary of four
hundred and five hundred thousand dollars a year. Is president
or CEO the five o' one C three? I mean,
that's what's happening.

Speaker 17 (01:44:31):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And it's it's so discussing. It's
so many of them is going to the spouses of people.

Speaker 18 (01:44:38):
Yeah, you know, just just look at the net worth
of someone like Samantha Power. She was the administrator, the
head essentially of USAID, and her net worth grew five times.

Speaker 17 (01:44:50):
I think that's right. It's around that it's a significant number.
Grew five times. Her salary has.

Speaker 18 (01:44:54):
Been the same salaries for bureaucrats are typically capped out
around one hundred and eighty thousand dollars. Yeah, somehow she
has a mass a multi million dollar fortune and it
just leaves you scratching your head, Huh, where did that
money come from? And it's most likely because it was
funnel to nonprofits of what she or her family was
sitting on the board and they get to reap the

(01:45:16):
benefits of millions of dollars of taxpayer funds going into
their back pocket, and they cover it up by saying, well,
we're helping the poor in the world, We're giving people
in Africa access to water and food.

Speaker 17 (01:45:27):
But really they are just patting their own personal coffers.

Speaker 1 (01:45:30):
Well, and as I read through the list of these
things that the Doge has revealed and the comments from
the senators that you know, I had no idea that
this money was being spent this way, And I said,
wait a second, aren't she responsible for the power of
the purse? I mean, you go ahead and you allocate
forty million dollars to USA, but then you stop. Somebody

(01:45:51):
had to approve the project. But ultimately, you know, twenty
million dollars goes to a sesame street show in a
rock And then how much of that twenty million dollars
really went to the sesame street show in a rock production.
It didn't land in some corrupt officials pocket. They don't
follow the trail of the money, and some of it
just stops once the aid's been allocated to the general
collective US AID fund.

Speaker 18 (01:46:13):
Yeah, that's right, and it's there's no accountability and no oversight.
And that's why you see the people who are screaming
the most, or the ones who have the most to
lose in terms of this personal racket or money laundering scheme,
if you will.

Speaker 17 (01:46:26):
That's that is what it is.

Speaker 18 (01:46:29):
These people are using their positions of trust and consequence
to siphon money off to the side to their benefit.
And they use stories of people that most people would
say like, yeah, they could use some help, or of
course we would want to take care of these vulnerable populations.
They use that as a cover for their own sick game.
And those are the people who are sitting outside of

(01:46:51):
USAID or some of these other areas that are throwing
up their hands, and the Democrat members of Congress who
are at the front of the line because they are
recipients of campaign donations from these people who are putting
taxpayer resources in their own pocket.

Speaker 1 (01:47:07):
Yeah, and that's the to me, that is the most.
I don't want I want to call it comical that
they're screaming at the top of their lungs over these
funds being identified, these outlandish, outrageous programs that no American
could find straight faced legitimate. They're not saying that the
money didn't go to these stupid programs like shrimp running
on treadmills. They're just screaming about the general focus on

(01:47:31):
USA and the fraud, waste abuse and defending it for
some reason. Just there's there's no denial here. There's no
that didn't happen. That's a lie. Elon Musk is making
that up.

Speaker 18 (01:47:42):
It's yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's it's just frustrating to see.
And I will say though, it's it's frustrating to see
some of the reaction, but you know, those people are
in the minority now and that is a really wonderful feeling.
And the cats out of the bag. I mean again,
some of us who are on the inside. Some of

(01:48:02):
it was the fact that we didn't really understand the
links the deep State would go to cover their tracks,
and they had decades to figure out ways to cover
up their tracks, and they're very, very good at it.

Speaker 17 (01:48:13):
So we were all in there.

Speaker 18 (01:48:14):
You know, you're drinking from a fire hose is the
words people often used to describe what it's like to
go into these positions, and a lot of us went
in not knowing that the tricks that the deep State
would use not just to confuse, but to try to
undermine and to hide what they were actually doing.

Speaker 17 (01:48:32):
All that's over, So it really is.

Speaker 18 (01:48:33):
Great to see Elon Musk, his team, Department of Government Efficiency,
and most importantly, the American people see this and they're
behind the President and his work one hundred and ten percent.

Speaker 1 (01:48:44):
Yeah, and you know it as well as I do. Yeah, Mandy,
that they've only scratched the surface. I mean, Elon Musk
has identified some real low hanging fruit just in one
USA department. I mentioned the Treasury Department. He's worked there
as long as he can get his access back centers
for Medicare and Medicaid Service, National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration, Department
of Energy, and Lord Almighty, nobody wants me more, that

(01:49:07):
wants the military spending to be audited more than me.
They can't even pass an audit seven or eight times
in a row.

Speaker 4 (01:49:14):
Mandy.

Speaker 17 (01:49:16):
I know, and I'm sure I'm sure you've seen.

Speaker 18 (01:49:18):
There was an interview not too long ago of one
of the UH one of the heads, one of the
people who was responsible for these types of audits, and
you know, she was just incredulous that people would wouldn't
trust them. Yeah, we felled audits, but you don't understand
what an audit is is essentially her response, and it
doesn't really matter. Like again, this goes through there's this

(01:49:40):
culture of people in DC that are so arrogant and
so flippant about their very real responsibility. And when people
come around asking basic questions that they cannot answer, Uh,
they they just they try to belittle you say that, well,
you don't really understand it. If you were, if you
were like me, you would understand. So yeah, look, Elon

(01:50:01):
Musk is scratching the surface. This type of misuse and
miss expenditure of funds.

Speaker 17 (01:50:08):
It permeates every single agency.

Speaker 18 (01:50:11):
So there's a lot more to come, and I'm excited
to see it, for it to finally be exposed.

Speaker 1 (01:50:14):
A lot more to come and maybe even I'll keep
my fingers crossed some criminal investigations into where this money
has landed. Manny, give us the car. Author of Y'all Fired,
A Southern Bell's Guide to Restoring Federalism and Draining the Swamp,
she had an advance on Doge.

Speaker 4 (01:50:28):
This is what the book's about.

Speaker 1 (01:50:30):
And I'm sure, I said, I know she's seeing it
just come all to fruition with it being ferreted out.

Speaker 4 (01:50:35):
Mandy.

Speaker 1 (01:50:36):
I got your book up on my blog page, but
if I have caresee dot com so people can get
a copy of it to the extent they haven't done
it already, and I'll encourage them to do so. It's
been great here talking with you. Keep up the great
work and looking forward to another volume maybe uh something
like along the aftermath lines.

Speaker 17 (01:50:52):
Yeah, what it's like after y'all fired. Yeah, well we'll
come up with a guts out. But thank you, thanks
for having me and thanks for the support.

Speaker 1 (01:50:59):
Pleasure man, it's been a real treat. Hi's Ryan Thomas
pleased to welcome to the fifty five Cassina Morning Show.
Cincinnati native Anson Freiks. He has a wild background. He's
the founder of Athletic Capital and co founder of Strive
Asset Management, but prior to founding Strive, he led finance
sales and underscore the word marketing operations as president of
Anheuser Busch Sales and Distribution company, and he's written a

(01:51:22):
book about it. Last Call for bud Light, The Fall
and Future of America's Favorite Anson. It's great having you
on the show.

Speaker 7 (01:51:30):
Thanks for having this morning, Brian, Well.

Speaker 1 (01:51:31):
What a dream job running a brewery and one of
the biggest in the world. That had to have been
a good time up until what happened. And how come
you're not there anymore? Anson?

Speaker 7 (01:51:41):
Yeah, So brid just be clear, I left about a
year before Anna hazer Bush's partnership with Bill Maulvaney, So
I wasn't there when the partnership happened, but I left
in part because I saw a lot of these problems
coming down the pipeline where the company really stopped focusing
on its customer, knew who its customer was. I mean,
when I was at Ane hazer Busch, we tried to
win the Super Bowl ad Meter Award every single year
and that was really sort of the gold standard if

(01:52:01):
you got if you won this Superowl Adameter Award, that's
when you knew you were hitting the core customer. But
over time, once the company was bought by kind of
European and Belgian company called InBev, and you had a
lot of sort of foreign folks from Europe and Belgium
and in Brazil coming to the US, and they really
changed the marketing. They changed the marketing to fit more
of this diversity, equity inclusion standards. They're trying to win

(01:52:23):
awards over in Europe. That was forcing bud Light and
not do what bud Light was. So I saw the
company changing a little bit left. About a year before
me and I actually founded a company with vid A
Ramaswami from Cincinnati as well called Drive to ask companies
not get involved in political issues. So it was really
a collision of two worlds. When my old company, an
Hunter Bush did the partnership with Dylan Malvaaney about two
years ago actually this week, and then the company we

(01:52:46):
started with Strive, we was telling companies now to get involved.

Speaker 4 (01:52:48):
In these things.

Speaker 7 (01:52:48):
It was bad for business. I became sort of the
person that was most knowledgeablebout the topic and kind of
what went wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:52:55):
Were you perhaps an impetus behind the Vex's book Woke Incorporated?

Speaker 7 (01:53:00):
You know this was uh, this was this was before
Vivid wrote the book, right when we were kind of
starting Strives. I think he was the one who wrote
Wolks Incorporated. And you know, I wrote this book Last
Call for bud Life, and hopefully it's sort of the
last time that companies need to get involved in political
and social issues and reminds people that man, the most
sustainable thing a business can do is focus on its customers,
give them great products and services, stay out of all

(01:53:22):
the issues that companies have gotten involved in over the
last couple of years. Whether it's been the transgendered issues,
whether it's been roe Vy weight issues, whether it's been
voting rights issues.

Speaker 4 (01:53:30):
I mean, you name it.

Speaker 7 (01:53:30):
You've had so many companies get involved in things that
really aren't in their mission or their their their core
kind of customer promise. And that's what's led to a
lot of the issues. Whether it's been at Disney, or
it's been at Nike, or it's been at Starbucks, Ben
and Jerry, you name it. There's been so many companies that, unfortunately,
have lost millions of customers, you know, billions of dollars
of value and have had to fire a lot of

(01:53:51):
employees or have had their suppliers shut down solely because
they fragmented their customer base by by you know, getting
involved in issues they shouldn't be.

Speaker 1 (01:53:58):
Well, it defines logic reason that a major corporation like
Anheuser Busch would engage in actual advocacy along any of
these lines, because, of course, the world is filled with
a diverse group of people and that already holds that
particular ideology that they would be alienating a sizable chunk,
particularly a beer company, a sizeable chunk of their base.

(01:54:19):
It just seems so obvious. How is it that any
advertising department could just fail to recognize such a simplistic, logical,
and reasonable concept as that and go the opposite direction.

Speaker 7 (01:54:32):
I mean, you're you're right, Brian. I mean, you know,
most beer drinkers, they just want their beer cold and
they want it fresh. That's essentially the value proposition, even
for a brand like bud Light. Bud Light was the
biggest beer brand in the US because it had this
idea that wanted to be easy to drink, easy to enjoy.
It was like an easy drinking, simple logger, and it
was always a humorous, funny, kind of kind of beer brand.

(01:54:53):
And really, I think a lot of the DNA of
the company. It changed really in the two thousand and
eight two thousand and nine time period when Anne hazer Busch,
which was this historic US American owned brand and beer company,
was bought by InBev, which is again this European and
Belgian company. And then also when the company the Europeans
and kind of Belgians who bought it. They moved the

(01:55:13):
headquarters of an hazer Bush from Saint Louis, Missouri, to
New York City. And this happened in sort of like
the twenty sixteen twenty seventeen time period. And at that time,
all of a sudden, you're hiring people that just grew
up in New York City, that only attended New York
City schools. They had only seen the US through the
lens of you know, kind of Fifth Avenue, and that's
not really who the core beer drinker was. And even

(01:55:34):
the lady that was running bud Light when named Alissa Heinerschnein,
who was doing the part who did the partnership with
Dylan Malvaney. I know Alyssa, and you know, nice, nice girl,
but then grew up in New York, went to boarding schools,
went to Harvard for undergrad went to Wharton and UPenn
for business school. You know, I don't know if she
never drank a bud Light in her life. I knew who'
somebody who was And so that's where the company really

(01:55:55):
started going wrong. And then on top of that, there
was a real sort of push over the last five years.
By this I called this coalition of of sort of
a DEI and ESG enablers. That was, you had large
asset managers like black Rock, State Street, Vanguard, the Control
twenty two million dollars a capital, largest investors in company
like Anhezard Bush. They were pushing this esgdi agenda. You

(01:56:17):
had large consulting companies like McKenzie and Bain. They were
kind of selling DEI consulting services on how companies needed
to become more diverse, more equitable, more inclusive. And then
you had a lot of really activist organizations, especially under
sort of like the Biden administration, that were going to companies,
things like the Human Rights Campaign, things like other organizations
that really pushed sort of aggressive ideologies on companies and

(01:56:40):
shame them if they didn't if they didn't abide. And
so therefore you had this sort of you know, coalition
of actors that were putting a lot of pressure on companies.
And as you had sort of the wrong people at
the companies that were running brands, Unfortunately they were susceptful
and fell for you know, this this progressive agenda that
just didn't sit with most most Americans.

Speaker 1 (01:56:59):
Well, so you have basically this echo chamber of liberal
voices talking to each other and only listening to each other,
but failing to appreciate that the underlying motive and reason
that the business is in business is to generate profit
and revenue. I mean, they seem to have lost track
and the focus of what was important is that's serving
the shareholder's best interest. That's a fiduciary obligation of board

(01:57:19):
of directors' owns. And again, you got to step outside
of yourself and think even these left wing nutcases that
haven't heard anything but their own voices have to understand
that they don't hold the only viewpoint and they might
want to do a little bit of polling and research
ahead of time to find out if this is the
right road to go down, because it may be bad
for the bottom line.

Speaker 7 (01:57:40):
Brian, You're exactly right, and that's it. And unfortunately a
lot of these folks they didn't do the thinking and
they thought, and frankly, they got away with it for
a number of years, and there was this more of
philosophical battle that's been going on for really ten years
of what's the purpose of the corporation. You talked about
historically businesses that they were in the business to give

(01:58:00):
returns to shareholders. That was kind of the Milton Friedman
view of the world. That's been happening since the nineteen
seventies where Milton Friedman, famous economists here in the US,
wrote this article about the social purpose of a business
is to return money to shareholders. How do they do that?
Create create products and services folks in your customer that
allows you to get to do more innovation, hire more people,
you know, be involved.

Speaker 6 (01:58:19):
In your community.

Speaker 7 (01:58:20):
And there's been this push towards this more this European
stakeholder capitalism model, which is that's the cloud Schwab world
economic form, this globalist kind of view that says no, no,
businesses need to work with governments and other stakeholders, the
kind of social engineer policy. I reject that view because
then you end up with what we did over the
last couple of years, where you had businesses getting involved

(01:58:41):
in all these social and political issues that alienated their
customer base. That led to millions of customers leaving these businesses,
thousands of people getting fired, and then massive losses in
share market value for companies. And that's not sustainable.

Speaker 1 (01:58:53):
No, it's not, and the demand for beer I don't
think went away. What this did to bud Light, the
most popular beer in Erica at one point, is people said,
I'm not going to buy that because of this woke
crap and this you know, this Dylan mulvaney person. I'm
going to go over and I'm going to sample maybe
one of the other thousands of beers that exists, and
they found there were other beers that were maybe even

(01:59:14):
tasted better that they chose over bud Light. They were
longtime bud dry Light drinkers, weren't inclined to try something else,
so this forced them to try another product, and they
found out in the world of competition, if you make
a better product, people will buy it.

Speaker 7 (01:59:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:59:29):
No, that's exactly it.

Speaker 7 (01:59:30):
And I think one of the other things that this
showed as well, this is one of the very first
times that there was actually like a real consumer boycott
of a brand. You know, there's been a lot of
people that were upset over the last five years, maybe
the NFL when you had a lot of players kneeling,
or the NFL was was going down. You know, the
whole Black Lives Matter movement, which became very controversial but
the thing is like if you are you know when

(01:59:50):
I watch football on Sundays, there's no real alternatives in
the NFL.

Speaker 4 (01:59:53):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:59:53):
One of the reasons is bud Light boycott was so successful.
There's really two reasons. One, there's a lot of alternatives
to bud Light. I mean everywhere you have butt Light,
cores Light, you have Miller Lite, and they're all in
the same six packs, are on draft and the same
price points. It's really easy to pick those up. And
then secondarily, people were seeing the impact that they had
because every single week, sales of bud Light are reported

(02:00:13):
at retailers like Walmart and Kroger in seven to eleven,
so every week you were seeing that sales were down
ten percent, twenty percent, thirty percent. And then you were
seeing all these pictures on social media nobody being in
the bud Light line at you know, Cincinnati Red's gates
or a Bengals games, they're.

Speaker 4 (02:00:28):
Off the cores lightlines for it's start.

Speaker 7 (02:00:30):
Now you're at the point where bud Light sales, I
mean they've been down. They're down fifty percent from where
they were two years ago, which is absolutely crazy to
think about. You see a brand implode like.

Speaker 1 (02:00:39):
That last call for bud Light to fall and future
of America's favorite beer. Speaking of the last component of
the subtitle, is there a way for them to rehabilitate?
Can bud Light ever recapture that top spot?

Speaker 7 (02:00:53):
You know, I don't think into the current leadership that
they can. They had multiple chances to go to their
loyal consumer base say hey, we screwed up. We never
said but like involved in these like in these political
and social issues, and so I think the current the
current group, which is again is a Belgian owned company,
and they have US leadership that hasn't been able to apologize.
I think what they actually do is they actually need
to sell the US business. I think they need to
sell that US business back to a group like I

(02:01:15):
don't call it Warren Buffett or Berkshire Hathaway or who knows,
maybe the Bush family. And I think you need to
have real leadership come back in for the for you know,
the American population, they're actually pretty forgiving. And I think
if you just went to them and said, you know,
I always say, like the path that forgiveness goes through redemption,
You're never going to be redeem unless you admit there
was an air, and nobody's admitted there's an air. So
you have to have a strong leadership team come back
in and say, hey, we screwed up. There's a new

(02:01:36):
ownership in place where American owned once again. We're going
to earn your trust back by being just this funny, humorous,
great tasting logger that you can enjoy at barbecues and
sports and music festivals. And that's what we want to
do it. I think they actually can get back to that,
but it's not going to be innto the current ownership group.

Speaker 1 (02:01:53):
It's been fabulous talking with you, Anson Frereks. He is
again since a resident author of the book we're talking
about today, Last Call for bud Light, The Fall and
Future of America's Beer, A favorite Beer. Answering your books
on my blog page fifty five carsy dot com with
a link where people can easily get a copy of it,
and I'm sure they will. Fascinating conversation and interesting analysis
of really bad decisions in the wrong direction. You have

(02:02:14):
a wonderful day, so it's been a real pleasure having
you on the program. Welcome to the fifty five Cars
Morning Show. Author Doug Ernest in the name of the
book we're talking about this morning, The Spirit of a
True Patriot, the inspiring story of retired Captain Doug Ernest,
who also now is a successful businessman. Doug, it's a
pleasure to have you on the program. Let me start
by thanking you for your service to our country.

Speaker 5 (02:02:34):
Thank you for that wonderful pleasure and that introduction. I
cannot say thank you enough.

Speaker 1 (02:02:39):
Well, we'll get to the business because I think it's
an integral part of what you learned from. Obviously a
horrific situation in the military. You served an Operation Desert Storm,
and as you describe in the book, jumping out of
your M one thirteen personnel carrier, it sounded a lot
like what the experience on the beaches in Normandy. We
get all this more to rounds and gunshots and explosions

(02:03:04):
all around you. I mean, how old were you at
the time.

Speaker 5 (02:03:08):
I had just turned eighteen. I had joined the Army
at the age of seventeen, spent six months in training infantry,
airboard school and some other classes, and then I went
off to Saudi Arabia about two weeks after I finished
my training. Eighteen years old when that experience happened.

Speaker 1 (02:03:22):
Eighteen years old, and you know, I've sort of come
to the realization over the years they have a cutoff
with enlisting in the military because guys like my age,
I'll be sixty in September, Doug and Douglas and you
couldn't I have a problem with authority anyway. But jumping
out of an M one th thirteen personnel carry amid
bombs and blasts and gunfire, that scares the living crap

(02:03:44):
out of me right now. But as an eighteen year old,
what was your emotional reaction went to that and the
other warfare and the challenges you faced during the Operation
Desert Storm.

Speaker 5 (02:03:54):
My emotional reaction was really simple. I had a great
one reaching ship with the war when I was younger
because I was grew up and that type of environment
with my family, attending a Lutheran school and always having
a presence with the Lord. And I was just communicating
with him consistently throughout the day, and so were my
brothers that I was with. We were having prayer groups together,
we were having spiritual caathery. We were every time we

(02:04:17):
could get together, we grab each other's hands and to say,
please Lord, guide us, give us direction, please ask us
the Lord to end this conflict quickly, because not only
did we not want to get hurt, but we you know,
as human beings and loving men, we don't want to
hurt other people. And it was hard as a kid.
I think the hardest part too, was knowing that I
might be inflicting collateral damage on people that we were

(02:04:39):
firing these weapons at. That was hard for me because
I grew up as a kid, peaceful and I did
not want to hurt people. I did not want to.
I could not see the pain that I knew if
I had hurt someone. I wasn't ready for that yet.
I had learned how to train, I had done this
in simulation, but I wasn't ready to actually kill another person.

Speaker 1 (02:04:57):
Is that the general mindset of the majoriyority of your
your comrades, because you know, we had this this ridiculous notion.
I feel so badly for the men and women and
mostly men who served in combat of Vietnam and they
got treated so miserably. They were called baby killers, and
they got a reputation with all the Hollywood movies depicting
Vietnam that they were just running around gleefully killing women

(02:05:19):
and children. I think of you know, like the machine
gunner and the helicopter at oh what was that movie?
Doesn't matter, but that they relished in the fact that
pulling the trigger had no concern or care for collateral damage.
What's reality, as you saw in an operation Desert Storm.

Speaker 5 (02:05:40):
Yeah, and it's the opposite is true. But what you
see in these Hollywood movies when you have these cycle
paths that are trying to, you know, inflict damage upon
their human beings. Ninety nine point nine nine percent of
those that serve in the military in our country are
always number one concerned is not hurting somebody else? And
if you do have to inflect damage and use these
ammunition and these rounds to get your point across to

(02:06:02):
get your territory, you do it shock and all you
get the damage over with, you attempt to get the
other side to concede so that you can stop. And
you know, and we and that's the way we've been
this in the military in the last two hundred and
sixty years of our country. Has there been some outliers
where there was some things that maybe shouldn't happen, of course,
but that's that one percent of one percent of one
percent that happened ninety nine point nine percent of people

(02:06:24):
in the military. And the way that I was trained
and brought up in the military is you just have
a complete, one hundred percent unadulterated shock and all program
where you get to your point across and you get
it done swiftly and quickly so that the enemy will
concede and you can move on and we'll stop the
damage on both sides so that the war will come
to an end.

Speaker 1 (02:06:42):
Yeah, we're talking earlier this morning with the retired lieutenant
colonel about the situation with Russia and Ukraine, and we
just pray that they'll put end that ridiculous dispute soon
because the loss of life is just overwhelming. And you
know your your your faith in God is right, I
somehow have a sense, and having never been in combat
or served in the American military ever since, if you

(02:07:02):
have a profound belief that your connection with God and
that you will be embraced and have this this wonderful
after life, having you know, served God and committed to
your faith, does that take the pressure off of the
idea of dying.

Speaker 13 (02:07:20):
It does?

Speaker 5 (02:07:21):
It gives you you know, and you use that a
few moments ago, you use that example from the movie
called The Populipse. Now people, you know, as a kid,
I watched that movie and then later I was putting
myself on a battlefield and I asked myself, what in
the world have I done? So, yes, the people that
I served with, the majority of us were Christians. We

(02:07:41):
had a few people that were in my platoon that
were Buddhists and so forth. But everybody had some type
of outer spiritual connection to a lord or something they
believe was a Lord, or something that they believe was
their savior. They're guiding universal force. And without me having
that universe of force, I don't think I could have
mentally or taught natively gotten true. So for me having

(02:08:02):
that spiritual connection to my Lord at that point in
my time, not only did it resonate with me and
my fellow brother that I was on the battlefield. That
gave me that chance to be able to stay connected
with the Lord and that relationship with my Savior. It
stayed with me my whole life. It's with me this morning.
You know, I just said a prayer, you know, only
fifteen minutes ago, to make sure I speak well and

(02:08:23):
I do a good job, you know, to serve my
country and to serve my fellow sisters and brothers that
are serving right now, so that I can do an
excellent job. And I did this relationship where I feel
like the Lord comes through me. He guides my life
as a of where I'm going to go every day,
and it just seems like it's just a part of
my life. And I see, you know in our communities
in our country, most of our country, about seventy percent

(02:08:45):
of it this Christian base. So we do have this
well that do embrace it, do use it. They can
actually have a better life, help themselves and to just
have a better life that's connected to our Lord.

Speaker 1 (02:09:00):
Did your service in the American military, along of course
with your profound faith which is coming through clearly? Did
that serve you in your business world? Because I understand
that you have a very successful might be jealous about
this corvette car dealership in Dallas, Texas. See you sell
exclusively corvettes.

Speaker 5 (02:09:19):
Yes, and absolutely the name of my business is Corvette Warehouse.
If you can just Google search a Corvette warehouse, you
can't miss it. We're the largest corvette dealer in the Southwest.
And the skill sets in the military absolutely on definitely,
without a doubt, added to the business sense of mine,
my business acumen. They teach you skill sets in the military,

(02:09:41):
like how to get things done, how to make things happen,
how to work with a team, just playing all down
to the nitty gritty skill sets that you need in
life to be successful, things that you need to need
in life to be happy, to be fulfilled, to be
able to work hard, and then no one to take
the break and sit on the sideline. So I learned
these skill set and I had the best mentors and

(02:10:01):
the best leaders anyone could ever ask for in the military.
When I was in the infantry, I had the best leaders.
When I was in a staff job working at a brigade,
when I was doing boring workle supply and signing for
millions dollars of equipment and never being on the field,
you know, being in a hotel room if you will.
I never had a bad leader. I've been so fortunate.

(02:10:23):
I've met so many people. I've everybody in the military,
the most nine to nine point nine percent of them
want to get ahead. They want to educate themselves, they
want to learn, they want to be good parents, they
want to be good people. That want to take care
of themselves physically. So learning these skill sets one hundred
percent gave me access to the knowledge. It gave me
access where to go get the knowledge I need. And
when I got out of the military, I set my goal.

(02:10:45):
You know that I was a hobby that I loved
playing with corvettes, that I wanted to do something I
love and I was passionate about. And I definitely understood
that these skill sets let me into the direction I'm
losing my falling in life so that I could be
good at it, but also having something when I can
enjoy every.

Speaker 15 (02:11:02):
Day of my life.

Speaker 5 (02:11:02):
And one other thing I'd like to that book now,
on the spirit of a true patriot, I write about
the skill sets you learned in the military. You know,
the quick heuristics, the shortcuts, theology, being on the move,
always doing something, to have your body in motion every day.
If you have your body in motion, your inertial forces

(02:11:23):
will propel you forward. You can't be three hundred pounds
overweight and expect to be a great business leader. You
can't be four hundred pounds overweight and expect to be
a great parent, because you're going to pass those skill
sets off to your children. So I learned that if
I can percent use the skill sets that I learned
in the military and passes off to people, that actually
reinforces my skill sets and it gives me a sense

(02:11:45):
of satisfaction to fulfillment that I've done the best I
can do by passing off these heuristics that I learned
to other people.

Speaker 9 (02:11:51):
In this world.

Speaker 1 (02:11:52):
So the name of the book is the spirit of
a true patriot inspiring story of My guest today, retired
Captain Douglas j Ernest, who are you hoping reads this book?
I mean, I obviously had a target audience in mind,
and I presume it's maybe the entrepreneurial folks out there.
But who else might benefit from the book? Douglas?

Speaker 5 (02:12:11):
You know, that's a great question, and I was when
I wrote this book. My intent was to direct it
towards people that were thinking about military service, or those
the parents that were thinking about military story, because that's
where my aim was. But as I wrote the book,
I was told later by friends and colleagues, man, that's
a good book. That's a management book, that's an executive

(02:12:31):
leadership book. And I didn't recognize that part of it
until after I wrote it because I had been living
this life of leadership and going to leadership school, and
it's just abred character. It's a part of my life.
Later when I read it, I've been told and I
reread the book over and over that it is it
is a management book. It is something how you can
not only manage a business, manage your life, manage your career,

(02:12:53):
but also have a better life with your physical, with
your with your spiritual, with your children, being a great parent,
being a involved in your community. It just has just
basic shortcuts they teach you in the When I joined
the military, I was twenty five pounds overweight. After I
joined the military, that weight was gone and I've never
put that on. I'm in the best physical shape you

(02:13:13):
can possibly imagine for the last thirty years of my life.
I feel like I'm twenty years old. And it's because
of this that they taught me in the military. Well,
this Book of a True Patriot has those shortcuts in
there that you can use to make improvements in your life.
And I believe it will help anyone that will take
the plunge and go spend the fifteen bucks to take
the opportunity and buy the book.

Speaker 1 (02:13:34):
Well, and I'm sure it sounds extremely uplifting and inspirational,
and that's all. That's a lot of what we need
right now. Douglas Ernest, thanks again for your service to
our country and for the inspiring book. I'll encourage my
listeners to get a copy of it, which will make
them easy to do at fifty five KRC dot com.
Will add it to our blog page with a link
to buy a copy. Thanks again, man, it's been inspiring
talking with you, man, it really has well.

Speaker 5 (02:13:56):
Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate you, and I
appreciate you getting the mesa adopt those people out there
that need want it to more than's good stuff. So
help our nation prosperous and continue this nation for another
two hundred and sixty years.

Speaker 1 (02:14:10):
Amen to that, brother. You have a fantastic week.