Bill Seitz - Property Tax Reform

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, It's Ryan Thomas. Please to welcome to the fifty
five Case Morning Show former House Minority Speaker Bill Sites,
who now apparently is going to be leading the panel
with former Congressman Pat Taberry to help maybe resolve the
property tax issue we have going on in the state
of Ohio. As my listeners are well aware, we just
did the budget in the state of Ohio contained three
provisions which I have been referring to as sort of

(00:21):
baby steps toward property tax reform to help lessen the
burden of the property tax that we're all facing. For
whatever reason, and I don't necessarily know why, maybe Bill
can address the question. Governor de Wine vetoed all three
of them, which brought the legislative branch back. They overrode
one of the three, but tabled the other because it
looked like they didn't have the votes to override the veto.

(00:42):
They may revote on that at some point, but in
the meantime, Governor to Wine formed the Property Tax Reform
Working Group, which Bill Sites is a member of. Bill.
Congratulations on the appointment.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
I guess.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Let me start out by wondering a question that a
lot of folks have been asking, Is it really necessary.
My understanding is been working on property tax reform measures
and ideas, in formulating lists of them for well over
a year now, and that's where those three that were
incorporated in the budget came from. So do you know
why do wane veto them and why we need to
continue discussing this. Hasn't this work been done already?

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Bill Sites Okay, let's start with the fact that, yes,
there has been work done by the legislative branch. Yes,
they studied the issue. There were, however, no members of
local government on the Legislative Study Committee. The Legislative Study
Committee did come out with recommendations. There are twenty one recommendations,

(01:39):
many of which contain the kernels of good ideas, but
they said in their report I'm quoting some proposals may
contradict others end quote, and they made no effort to
prioritize among the twenty one recommendations which ones should be pursued.
So we view our job first as expanding upon those
twenty one recommendations, putting meat on the bones, and trying

(02:03):
to deliver as much property tax relief as we can
without breaking the bank of the state, and not putting
too much state money behind it. Why did the wind
detailed the three well number one. You probably have to
ask him, but to my understanding, the reason was that
he thought the measures were flawed in their language and

(02:24):
that they created too much uncertainty and fiscal stress on
units of local government. I'll give you, and you know,
I'll give you an example that they voted to eliminate.
They voted to prevent emergency levees and substitute levees from

(02:45):
being excluded from the twenty mil floor. Okay, that's fine,
but they want to apply that principle to existing levees.
And I think we have a problem with us because
it's tanked them out to changing the rules in the
middle of the game. If the levee is a five
year levee and it still has three years to run,
it should be allowed to run out and expire before

(03:07):
we go ahead and change the calculation of the twenty
mil floor. Another example, they voted to totally eliminate emergency levees,
replacement levees, and substitute levees. I'm for eliminating replacement levees,
I'm for eliminating substitute levees, but I'm really not for
eliminating emergency levees because the Property Taxpayer Coalition said, and

(03:36):
I quote it should be limited, that we should limit
the definition okay to a true emergency and run limited
to a certain period of time. I agree with that.
There could be true emergencies. For example, what if the
Kerk County floods happened in Ohio? For example? What about

(03:58):
some natural disaster? For example, what if the levee did
not pass, the district would be thrown into fiftial emergency
and subject to state takeover. So I think we can
do what they wanted, but make a slight change to
that language. I do. Our job is building upon what
the legislature has done. We are not trying to undo it.

(04:19):
We're trying to refine it. Now.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
I guess one of the concerns has got to be
looming large. Is this repeal all property tax constitutional amendment
that's they're circulating right now, trying to get it on
the ballot. Does this work that you are working on,
and do you anticipate the work getting completed and giving
us some property tax relief through any whatever measures are
presented in advance of that, Because that's looming large, and

(04:43):
it's possible that the voters in Ohio, if nothing's done,
might very well vote for that. And then you talk
about chaos. I'm not quite even sure how that would be,
how it would work in the aftermath.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Well, that's an excellent point. The governor has given us
a headline of September thirtieth to come up with our
enhanced recommendations. That's a very tight timeframe. So we are
working very diligently to meet that objective. That's number one.
The reason why he picked September thirtieth is the legislature
is coming back into session in early October, and so

(05:19):
if they care to take up our recommendations, there would
be plenty of time to do it. The repeal of
the property tax initiative would not be on the ballot
until November twenty twenty six at the earliest, and you're right,
it would cause absolute chaos because the rough property taxes
in Ohio. I'm out up to twenty three b with

(05:42):
a billion dollars, all of which goes to local services.
None of that money goes to the state. It is
for local police and fire and parks, and senior citizens services,
and mental health services and developmental disability and schools. Eliminating
twenty three billion dollars would obviously do great damage to

(06:04):
all of those local services on which people depend, and
it would create another problem, what do you replace that revenue? Yes,
you would need it if we've done great work Brian
and cutting the income tax I was there twenty four years.
We took the income tax brackets in Ohio that used

(06:25):
to be nine brackets and a match tax rate of
over eight percent. During my tenure, we took it down
to two brackets, three point five percent and two point
seven five percent, And so we made tremendous strides there,
and the legislature just took another great stride forward and
cutting it to a flat tax of two point seven

(06:45):
five percent. I don't see the legislature being at all
interested in raising income taxes again when we were so
close to having achieved that goal.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Well, and what a practice. Well, we're quite of the
problems with income taxes. Only property or income tax only
people who work are paying them, and property taxes only
people who own property are are are paying them. But
yet you have a whole host of people who are
enjoying the benefits of all these services that are funded
by property taxes. That aren't paying them. How about I mean,
I've heard this issuon. I've even thrown it out increasing

(07:16):
the sales tax a little bit. So literally, everyone who
buys anything in the state of Ohio is participating and
paying for government services. The problem that that presents for
me is that's a giant pile of money that ends
up in Columbus that will be responsible for choosing and
picking how much money goes to any given entity.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Well, that's a very good observation. And let me just
say this. You would need a statewide sales tax rate.
It's something approaching twenty percent if you were to replace
that twenty three billion dollars with an increased sales tax.
And for those of us who live here in Hamilton
County on the border to Kentucky, on the border to Indiana,

(07:57):
people would vote with their feet and buy their goods
and services in Kentucky. They would not pay twenty percent
in Ohio. In general, I agree with you consumption taxes
are preferable to income and property taxes. But frankly, I
always thought the income tax was the principle evil to
be avoided because we've had property taxes in Ohio since

(08:19):
the eighteen thirties. The income tax didn't arise until Governor
Gilligan brought it to us in the early seventies. And
you know, we've viewed that as the principal target. Now
there's a lot we can do, a lot we can recommend.
For example, why don't we let folks who are senior

(08:41):
citizens and disabled homeowners, why don't we give them some
tax relief, either in the form of an enhanced homestead
exemption or in the form of some sort of a
deal where you pay up to x percent of their
income and anything on top of that the state will
pick up, perhaps with the obligation on the part of

(09:02):
the homeowner that when they die or move out of
the house, they have to pay it back. So that
would be kind of a no cost option to the
state while providing relief to the homeowner during the homeowner's
occupancy of that house. There's an idea for you. How
about letting people instead of paying their taxes in big
chunks twice a year January in June, how about saying

(09:24):
we're going to give you a monthly payment plan. Yes,
there might have to be some interest factor applied to that,
because you're not getting all the money up front. But
I think one of the reasons people hate property taxes
is you get this job smackingly large bill twice a year.
If it was spread out into more manageable payments, you

(09:45):
would probably have fewer delinquencies and less outrage over property taxes.
So there's a whole lot of great ideas like that.
And our group contains school superintendents, county commissioners, county auditors,
county treasure mayors, business people like Congressman te Berry, and
me as a former legislator and taxpayer and property owner

(10:08):
for twenty four years in the state legislature. So we're
going to do our best to build on what the
legislature has done, to suggest refinement of some of what
they have done, and to agree with them that more
needs to be done. We totally agree with that. There's
a great bill that's pending up there called House Bill

(10:29):
one eighty six. I heard one of the leaders in
the House say that bill has to pass. I completely
agree that bill has to pass. So there's not as
much division between the legislature and at least me as
might be perceived, I agree with much of what they
want to do.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
So fair enough, bill sides. Appreciate your insight on this.
We'll very much look forward with bated breath the reforms
that you recommend and how quickly the legislative branch acts
on them. Of course, you know it, I know it.
Everybody in Ohio knows that our property tax bills just
keep going up and up and up, and we're all
demanding some form of relief. I wish you all the
best in the world getting that relief to the property

(11:09):
taxpayer bill.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Thanks, Brian, appreciate it. It'll be a large task, but
we're willing to try to get that done.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
I'm certain you are. Bill. Look forward to talking with
you again when you get something out on paper.