August 19, 2025 • 27 mins
Brian Thomas is joined by energy expert Brigham McCown to talk about US energy production including carbon dioxide emissions, solar power and how the US stacks up against the rest of the world.
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Seven five Here at fifty five krc DE talk station
half eat Tube. Today one hour from now, the insight
scoop of Breitbart News be talking to at Alex Marlow,
editor in chief over at Breitbart. He's got a brand
new book, number three in the books he's written, Breaking
the Law. It's about using lawfair against President Donald Trump
and how damaging. That was followed by the Daniel Davis
Deep Dive in the meantime. Welcome back to the fifty
(00:36):
five KRSE Morning Show. Brig him accown. He directs the
Initiative on American Energy Security at the Hudson Institute Hudson
dot org. He's also a professor at Miami University. Former
Federal Energy Transportation Safety Regulator and retired naval aviator. Thank
you for your service to our country, Brigha McGown. He
focuses on energy security, infrastructure and regulatory policy. He also
gets to sit down with folks on c SPAN like
(00:58):
the President of the League of con Servation Voters and
have an argument about climate change. Welcome back, Brigham. It's
always cool having you in studio. Man, Brian, It's great
to be here. Thanks for the invite. Well, you know,
it's kind of interesting that you brought that up before
we're on the break there, the League of Conservation Voters, Yeah,
some left wing organization about you know, climate change. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You know, it's interesting because growing up as a kid,
I thought they were just the people that hosted presidential
debates and they were kind of you know, moderate, right,
And apparently that's not the case, because zero change and
we need to get rid of everything we own and
everything that has power, and you know, we just can't
(01:39):
do it.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Until conditions become miserable and the population starts revolting against it. Yeah,
which seems to be going on in European Union. Yes,
it is, and that's that started for some time.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
You know, we've uh.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Part of Europe is is headed back towards reality. The
other part of Europe keeps going full speed ahead. Germany, Yeah,
they have killed their economy.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
They have killed it. They absolutely have.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
And you know people say, well, no, no, no, that was
brought on by you know, Russia's brutal invasion.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah he was. But you know, the backbone.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
What allowed Germany to kind of profess to be this
renewable capital of the world was their entire economy is
underpinned by cheap Russian oil and gas. It nothing to
say behind the curtains here look at my window.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
We here in Germany aren't produced in carbon dioxide. But
even though the Russians are, you know, providing us with oil,
it's their oil airgo, we didn't produce it, so we
don't have to be accountable for burning it to generate power.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, everybody wants to outsource their green gilt.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Same thing in Canada.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
You know, if it's produced elsewhere, it doesn't count.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I know. And you know a part of the larger
picture too.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
We cut our own throats in the name of reducing
carbon dioxide output. Meanwhile China produces and belches it out
like a grand scale. We're all breathing the same air. Yeah,
I mean, the wind does blow from China in this direction, right,
I mean, it's just it's ridiculous to ignore that reality.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
And if you look at you know, coal for example,
you know, yeah, yeah, the West has reduced coal consumption
thanks in large part to the shale fracking revolution, right,
and so we've reduced our coal consumption. China, India, the
developing world said thank you very much, We're gonna take
everything you took offline and double it. Coal has never
(03:41):
had a more larger banner. Year twenty twenty five, we're
gonna use the most coal in the world. So these
self imposed restrictions, all in the name of climate change,
it doesn't work. And I think you know, back during
the first Trump term, that was one of his complaints was, look,
you're holding us to this unex uptible standard, and you're
(04:01):
letting the real polluters under the guys of being developing nations.
Just China's a developing nation. Apparently, just keep going and going. Well,
isn't that the ultimate point. I've been making this point
for a long, long long time that this isn't about
reducing carbon or the Earth changing its environment. It's the
(04:22):
fact that European Union for a long time, and of
course the United States, has enjoyed a much more bountiful economy.
We reap the benefits of our freedom, the capitalism, the
profits that we make. That we are a very developed
we're very comfortable, we can afford a lot more, we
have more stuff and things. When you compare it to
(04:44):
third world and second world countries, they're allowed to continue
to pollute, they're allowed to continue to develop their coal
based infrastructure, electricity production, even though it's belching out carbon
just because they are developing. So while we cut our
throats to reduce our ECONO might and ability, they're raising
their economic might inability. This seems to be the path
(05:05):
and trajectory that the globalists want to flatten the playing field.
So we're all, i might argue, equally miserable briging. Well, Brian,
you just gotta you know, you can't run so fast.
You need to slow down and let everybody else catch up.
That's it, you know, and and not fair. It's not fair.
And I made that point on c SPAN National Audience
(05:25):
was early in the morning. It was interesting the callers
who called in, Uh, you know, they have a Democrat line,
they have a Republican line and an independent line. And
I think I fielded one Republican call in like nine
of the other people. It's it's almost like they had
a plan to call in. Oh I'm sure, but you
know it. I made this point, and that is, folks,
we can all hold our breaths not amid anything, and
(05:49):
it is not going to reach any of these international
IPCC Coordinating Council goals because other people aren't playing along
China and India, for example, And I said, you know,
folks online, great, great, you want to do this, run
over to India, run over to China, because you know
(06:11):
China doesn't care about this. They go, oh, we can
work with China. No we can't.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
No, they benefit economically by jitting the system and trying
to submit propaganda around the world that we all are
killing the planet and that we need to be convinced
that global warming is a real thing, the carbon dioxide
output is a bad thing, needs to be stopped. In
other words, they can foster and encourage that message while
ignoring it themselves to their benefit economically, because everything related
(06:37):
to the green revolution is manufactured in China.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yes, absolutely true. And meanwhile, you know China is running
around suitcases full of cash saying, let us take your port,
let us build you some infrastructure. This is all designed
to extract the materials that China needs all over the
world and bring it home.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
They energy security. I have to give it to them.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
They have a very traditional definition of energy security, which
is we want it all. We don't want to be
dependent on anybody else.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
All the above strategy. Yeah, and they're doing it right,
and all the.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Above considering how the expense associated with whether you go
nuclear or coal or natural gas or put up a
windmill farm. Coal is the cheapest option apparently, because they
can put up a new coal generation factory in virtually
no time.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
They can, and you know, quite frankly, it's still the
cheapest way of doing things. And so there's if you
look at the West that has retired at coal versus
the people adding coals, it's insane.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Google it, go look at it. Oh, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Well, and I guess you could use New Jersey as
an illustration of how terrible things have gotten following green policies.
They close down the nuclear pants or the plants, they're
coal generation facilities in a rush to go full carbon
neutral before they had the carbon neutral or panel and
wind farm infrastructure even in place, which means they had
(08:03):
to rely on Pennsylvania for all their liquid natural gas
to keep their energy production going because they didn't have
their own source of energy production anymore. It's just it's
like the European Union buying from Russia. We stopped producing
it in the European Union and start supporting the Russian
economy by buying it from them.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yes, and We've seen this play out in Europe also,
where people in Norway are upset because their electric prices
are rising because they're backfilling Germany when Germany is short.
The same thing in France, and I've mentioned before France
has had to save both hard to say, but France
is actually say both Germany and Spain from their own policies,
(08:45):
relying on the backbone of French electricity, which is nucuclear power.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Nuclear They have what forty reactors.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
They have somewhere in that neighborhood, and it produces, depending
on the day, somewhere between seventy five and eighty percent
of their entire electric needs, and exports and exports to
other countries. And yet they won't allow themselves to have
air conditioning. Yes, did you see the article? I saw
the Wall Street Journal article about that.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, if you have air conditioning, only air conditioned one
room and never ever set the thermostat below, was it
seventy eight degrees?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Seventy eight degrees? Yeah? You know.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Here, here's the whole point I think is, do you
look at policy through a lens of prosperity, And I
don't mean just get rich, I mean comfort for your
fellow man, or do you look at it from a
scarcity perspective and when you look at it through sarsity fox.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Scarcity, Yeah, it is, there isn't. I mean, electricity production
is only scarce because we regulated into scarcity.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
That's very true.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And you know, speaking of electricity, we have a shortfall
coming up because we too, under the previous folks have
ret I hired a bunch of coal fired power plants
while our demand goes up for lots of different reasons,
but the number one is we have more people here
than we've ever had. They've been moving to the South
it's hotter in the south and AI generation data centers.
(10:17):
We're going to have our own electricity crunch in the
next five to ten years. And that's why the current
administration is moving as quickly as possible on permitting all
forms of new power generation.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Including my favorite, these small modular nuclear reactors. Yes more
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Speaker 2 (11:41):
This is fifty five krc an iHeartRadio station our seven
twenty one.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
I'm thinking about krcdtalk station by the Times with the Briga
mcgowns from the Hudson Institute Energy policy expert. He is,
of course, you'll find them all over the place. Charged
Conversations is Briga mccowns podcast, and I strong I encourage
my listeners to take a listen to that.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
You got a new one that came out or is
coming out.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, I've got a new ones coming out on the
US and EU trade policy and how energy plays a
role there. And then we've had one that just came
out within the last ten days or so on natural
gas as the workhorse for American energy.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Always excellent your thoughts, insights and expertise on those subjects, Brigham.
So we'll be looking for that again. Charged Conversations. We
were talking about COEO two emissions, and I know Donald
Trump has gotten rid of that endangerment finding sort of
a I don't know, an alchemy way of turning carbon
dioxide into a pollutant by saying it contributes to air pollution,
(12:43):
although by and in and of itself, it is not
a pollutant.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Correct, Correct? And what and Brian you're spot on? What
makes it different is most of the pollutants that the
EPA when it came into being under President Nixon back
in the seventies, right, we were to clean up uh
Cuyahoga River. We didn't want articulates, right, yeah, lead, mercury,
things that are actually carcinogenic or harmful, things that are
(13:09):
harmful to your health. And if we look back at
the seventies versus a day, our water, our air, our
land is so much cleaner, dramatically, so dramatically, and repealing
that endangerment finding is important because that is the lunchpin
that allows plane of flawyers to run around the country suing.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
The polluters.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Right, not you and me that buy the stuff, but
the companies that produce our gasoline.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Oh, wait for it, Brigham, wait for it. You see
a massive class action against humanity. You're all responsible.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
No, no, write a check, Brigham, you respond, write a check.
We're all responsible.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And that wasn't what I know that if you if
you're producing carbonaxid, then somehow you have to engage in
a carbon capture program which comes at some outrageous costs.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Like a coal plant.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
It this, well, you need to capture all the carbon
dioxide that comes out of it. That renders it impossible
to make a profit.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
So here's a couple things that mister Meysmith said that
I thought were pretty interesting.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Running back to the c span for just a second.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Repealing the endangerment finding would be catastrophic for climate and
public health. And aggressive EPA action is essential regulation volume.
That's the amount of rags, I guess is a proxy
for climate progress. Okay, speaking of progress, I know you
have a chart, a valid chart which has tracked the
(14:37):
CO two emissions from what around nineteen seventy to today.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Nineteen hundred actually teen hundred to today. Where does the
statistic come from?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
This came from the folks over at our world today
that put charts together. You can google these charts anywhere
on the internet.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And put in your learn experience. These are valid figures.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, they come from national international sources. These are accepted charts.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
The kind of stuff that the various UN climate regulatory
agencies rely on. Yes, absolutely so, from nineteen hundred to today,
how much progress have we made on this evil carbon
dioxide breaking the count?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Well, it depends on what country you live in.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Right now, if we talk about emissions and billions of tons,
nineteen hundred we went from about four now we're about
forty tons, forty billion tons of CO two a year. Okay,
that sounds pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Not to me because of plant food, yes, yes, but
as a percentage of the atmosphere, it's still a fraction
of a percent, right.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Oh my gosh, it's less than one half of one percent.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
All right, yeah, not a whole lot of plant fluid
of food out there, no.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
And plants actually thrive on this. And so what I
find interesting is if we look at the Western world.
In the US emissions, by the way, we're below two
thousand and five levels on CO two. We are down substantially,
but for some reason that chart keeps going.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Up, right, And the European Union is also down on
CO two emissions.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
They are down.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I guarantee you every Western nation is down in CO
two emissions.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
So if we take the US and Europe together, we're
about where we were nineteen sixty eight nineteen seventy total emissions.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
In spite of massive population increases. Yeah exactly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
We more electricity generation, more demand, more use of and
yet we're.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Static, yes, in fact down a little bit, down a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
And where has all of the extra billions of carbon
dioxide come from?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Briging the colen gosh, Brian, I'm so glad you asked.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
It looks like India has gone from a little tiny
line to a really thick red line. In fact, India
right now produces more CO two than the Western world.
I'm sorry, I'm misreading that. I need to put my
glasses on red. China obviously, all right, Yeah, China produces
more CO two than the rest of the Western world combined.
And India has also gone from a tiny sliver too,
(17:24):
more than the US or Europe. They're getting close to
both of us. But give them, give them time here,
give them time. Briging well, Pauls will bring brigg in
the comeback. Just shed a little dose of much needed
reality on the insanity we have to deal with with
this CO two problem. That's not a problem.
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Speaker 3 (18:44):
Over the years you've bear see the talk station.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Seven thirty one fifty five KRC. Talkstation Hudson dot Org
is where you find Brigham account and the Hudson Institut.
Brigham our energy policy expert in studio. One more segment
here with Brigham before he is off to take his
off to college, and congratulations to your son, real milestone
for him.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Thank you very much. And the parents. Oh yeah, well
I tried.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I went through that, so yeah, I know I didn't
have to drive as far as you. So good luck
on the journey and safe travels to you and your family.
So your wife's waiting in the wings. Hurry up, rigam,
get home. We're going to go on a road trip.
So one more, moving back to energy policy. Yeah, and
I know, we got some new guidance on windmill and
solar farms here, which makes it a little more difficult
(19:28):
under the big one, big beautiful bill to continue working
on a project if it hasn't actually started. So maybe
some clawing back on that. But what of solar. I
thought that was going to be the salvation of the
of the world. They're not doing solar anymore.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Well, yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
You know, if you look online, all you see is
renewables are taking over x number a gigawats at it.
By the way, in real in traditional power, let's take coal,
nuclear gas. When you add megawatts of power, it's a
real number.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
You know.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
It's like driving your car. When you say it has
x number of horse power, it has x number of
horse power. When you add gigawatts or megawatts of solar
or wind, what you have installed is not necessarily what
you get out of the.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
City, just depended upon the weather it is.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
And so people are like, well, we added this much,
you don't know, not necessarily and it's what we call
intermittent because it is not a dispatchable power source, meaning
it's not available twenty four to seven. And what's happened
is until about twenty twenty three, solar looked like it
was on an exponential curve, and then suddenly it flatlined.
(20:45):
We're not installing anymore solar in twenty twenty five than
we did in twenty twenty three. Why because around the
world subsidies are ending.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And the same thing is true on wind. I don't
know if you've seen, but some of the wind perers
are going bankrupt, asking for one Danish company is asking
for a nine billion dollar bailout from the Danish government
because it doesn't it doesn't make sense. So the whole
point of energy security is to have available energy where
(21:15):
and when you need it at at a affordable price,
and that's where some of these other technologies fall short.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Well, subsidies blur the line of what's affordable and what's not.
If you subsidize something, you take away the pain associated
with the real cost of it. You give someone seven
thousand dollars in a tax credit for buying an EV
that they otherwise wouldn't have bought or couldn't afford. It
maybe makes it affordable, It maybe makes it competitive with
an eternal combustion engine, But that's the taxpayer dollars going
to subsidize someone's private purchase.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
It absolutely is.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
And not to say that inflation isn't real, but you
know your non EV car, part of the cost of
that new EV car and why prices have gone up
is you are subsidient for the losses on the side.
So if we kept a focus on outcomes, right, if
CO two is your thing, tons down, install nuclear reliability,
(22:08):
stable bills, that's really what we're looking for now. The
other side will say, well, wait a minute, oil and
gas subsidies. You know, one of their favorite talking points
is we have to get rid of oil and gas subsidies.
But the reality is those are subsidies like there are
for renewables, to the extent that you could even claim
these things as subsidies. They are the same tax breaks
(22:28):
that any business owner gets in the entire country, regardless
of one line of.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Business you're in. Seeing the tax code, Yeah, that's not
a subsidy right.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Down for depreciation investments, you know, if I purchased the
durable goods, all of that, see your tax code.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yes, So it's a little disingenuous intellectually. Yeah to say, well,
you know oil and gas industries been subsidized for you, Well, not.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
True industry business period right, manipulated by the tax code.
I hate the tax code for that reason. I don't
want my behavior manipulated by some you know, ridiculous line
item in the tax code. You know you're going to
go to credit if you do this. No, thank you
very much. All right, let's let's let's wrap things up.
Bringham accout because they know you got to go. I
don't want to get in trouble with your wife. Let's
(23:12):
go back to some of the alarmist claims. Remember al Gore,
we should we all be dead by now. Because you
just pointed out our emissions levels, it basically remains static.
The global emissions levels have gone up because India and
China don't care. Among others. So we haven't made any
progress in terms of reducing global CO two volumes.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
And we're not dead yet. We're not dead. We're not dead.
And to the thought the ice capture, no, no, they were
and they haven't.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
In fact, Greenland is showing more ice than twenty five
year average. So back in December, right before Christmas two
thousand and nine, al Gore said there's a seventy five
percent chance that Arctic summer ice cap could be gone
in the next five to seven years. So let's see
two thousand and nine plus five twenty fourteen to twenty
(23:59):
six we're ten years out. Yeah, yeah, they're still there.
They're still there.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Be ok.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Bullar bears are doing just fine. Everybody else seems to
be doing pretty well. And I think that's part of
the issue.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Is uh.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I think most people will say, yes, the Earth is warming.
The problem is, uh, these climate alarmists are taking the
worst climate projection models and and here and here's something
they only talk about the worst case scenario. When you
look at climate models, there are a half a dozen
plus based on your assumptions to.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
No change to the world is going to end. And
guess which one they use. The world is going to end.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
And over the last five to ten years, when you
look at actual observed versus projection, they a'll match up.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Nope, but but here, but but they they keep going.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Sure as hell told us it was going to happen,
didn't they break? And we are all going to die?
Is really how I boil it down?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, and I think that is.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
You know that alarm is feeling as one of their
you know, one of the turn offs, right why people
kind of tune it out after a while because it's
just not credible.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, for the more intelligent among us, we don't look
at one specific weather event and immediately say this is
because of global warming. We look at patterns of weather
events over long periods of time, where we have data
showing that there really is no difference between the number
of hurricanes today is the word you know, a hundred
years ago, one hundred and fifty years ago, on and
(25:28):
on and on.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
You know, you're so spot on and thinking of hurricanes,
we've all seen well, we've got the European model, this model,
the Galileo model. You know, we can't even figure out
where a hurricane is going to go to, let alone
project you know, climate change or a long period of time.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
So yeah, it doesn't work any better.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I feel that way every time I read the weather
here in the morning, it's like, is it really gonna
be eighty one degrees later this week? I don't believe it,
but you know you got to guess on some level.
Brigha McCaw on Hudson dot orgers where you find Brigham
in the Hudson Institute.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
They do great work.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
And Brigham's always just so kind to come in the
program and talk about these very important issues. Uh yeah,
and you're smarter than they are. I know that, brighamccown.
It's always a pleasure man. You're always welcome.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Here, Brian, thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Good luck to your son in college. Save travels on
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Speaker 3 (26:59):
This is fifty five. I have KRC and iHeartRadio station.
It's summertime.
Seven five Here at fifty five krc DE talk station
half eat Tube. Today one hour from now, the insight
scoop of Breitbart News be talking to at Alex Marlow,
editor in chief over at Breitbart. He's got a brand
new book, number three in the books he's written, Breaking
the Law. It's about using lawfair against President Donald Trump
and how damaging. That was followed by the Daniel Davis
Deep Dive in the meantime. Welcome back to the fifty
(00:36):
five KRSE Morning Show. Brig him accown. He directs the
Initiative on American Energy Security at the Hudson Institute Hudson
dot org. He's also a professor at Miami University. Former
Federal Energy Transportation Safety Regulator and retired naval aviator. Thank
you for your service to our country, Brigha McGown. He
focuses on energy security, infrastructure and regulatory policy. He also
gets to sit down with folks on c SPAN like
(00:58):
the President of the League of con Servation Voters and
have an argument about climate change. Welcome back, Brigham. It's
always cool having you in studio. Man, Brian, It's great
to be here. Thanks for the invite. Well, you know,
it's kind of interesting that you brought that up before
we're on the break there, the League of Conservation Voters, Yeah,
some left wing organization about you know, climate change. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You know, it's interesting because growing up as a kid,
I thought they were just the people that hosted presidential
debates and they were kind of you know, moderate, right,
And apparently that's not the case, because zero change and
we need to get rid of everything we own and
everything that has power, and you know, we just can't
(01:39):
do it.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Until conditions become miserable and the population starts revolting against it. Yeah,
which seems to be going on in European Union. Yes,
it is, and that's that started for some time.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
You know, we've uh.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Part of Europe is is headed back towards reality. The
other part of Europe keeps going full speed ahead. Germany, Yeah,
they have killed their economy.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
They have killed it. They absolutely have.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
And you know people say, well, no, no, no, that was
brought on by you know, Russia's brutal invasion.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah he was. But you know, the backbone.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
What allowed Germany to kind of profess to be this
renewable capital of the world was their entire economy is
underpinned by cheap Russian oil and gas. It nothing to
say behind the curtains here look at my window.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
We here in Germany aren't produced in carbon dioxide. But
even though the Russians are, you know, providing us with oil,
it's their oil airgo, we didn't produce it, so we
don't have to be accountable for burning it to generate power.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, everybody wants to outsource their green gilt.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Same thing in Canada.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
You know, if it's produced elsewhere, it doesn't count.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I know. And you know a part of the larger
picture too.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
We cut our own throats in the name of reducing
carbon dioxide output. Meanwhile China produces and belches it out
like a grand scale. We're all breathing the same air. Yeah,
I mean, the wind does blow from China in this direction, right,
I mean, it's just it's ridiculous to ignore that reality.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
And if you look at you know, coal for example,
you know, yeah, yeah, the West has reduced coal consumption
thanks in large part to the shale fracking revolution, right,
and so we've reduced our coal consumption. China, India, the
developing world said thank you very much, We're gonna take
everything you took offline and double it. Coal has never
(03:41):
had a more larger banner. Year twenty twenty five, we're
gonna use the most coal in the world. So these
self imposed restrictions, all in the name of climate change,
it doesn't work. And I think you know, back during
the first Trump term, that was one of his complaints was, look,
you're holding us to this unex uptible standard, and you're
(04:01):
letting the real polluters under the guys of being developing nations.
Just China's a developing nation. Apparently, just keep going and going. Well,
isn't that the ultimate point. I've been making this point
for a long, long long time that this isn't about
reducing carbon or the Earth changing its environment. It's the
(04:22):
fact that European Union for a long time, and of
course the United States, has enjoyed a much more bountiful economy.
We reap the benefits of our freedom, the capitalism, the
profits that we make. That we are a very developed
we're very comfortable, we can afford a lot more, we
have more stuff and things. When you compare it to
(04:44):
third world and second world countries, they're allowed to continue
to pollute, they're allowed to continue to develop their coal
based infrastructure, electricity production, even though it's belching out carbon
just because they are developing. So while we cut our
throats to reduce our ECONO might and ability, they're raising
their economic might inability. This seems to be the path
(05:05):
and trajectory that the globalists want to flatten the playing field.
So we're all, i might argue, equally miserable briging. Well, Brian,
you just gotta you know, you can't run so fast.
You need to slow down and let everybody else catch up.
That's it, you know, and and not fair. It's not fair.
And I made that point on c SPAN National Audience
(05:25):
was early in the morning. It was interesting the callers
who called in, Uh, you know, they have a Democrat line,
they have a Republican line and an independent line. And
I think I fielded one Republican call in like nine
of the other people. It's it's almost like they had
a plan to call in. Oh I'm sure, but you
know it. I made this point, and that is, folks,
we can all hold our breaths not amid anything, and
(05:49):
it is not going to reach any of these international
IPCC Coordinating Council goals because other people aren't playing along
China and India, for example, And I said, you know,
folks online, great, great, you want to do this, run
over to India, run over to China, because you know
(06:11):
China doesn't care about this. They go, oh, we can
work with China. No we can't.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
No, they benefit economically by jitting the system and trying
to submit propaganda around the world that we all are
killing the planet and that we need to be convinced
that global warming is a real thing, the carbon dioxide
output is a bad thing, needs to be stopped. In
other words, they can foster and encourage that message while
ignoring it themselves to their benefit economically, because everything related
(06:37):
to the green revolution is manufactured in China.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yes, absolutely true. And meanwhile, you know China is running
around suitcases full of cash saying, let us take your port,
let us build you some infrastructure. This is all designed
to extract the materials that China needs all over the
world and bring it home.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
They energy security. I have to give it to them.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
They have a very traditional definition of energy security, which
is we want it all. We don't want to be
dependent on anybody else.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
All the above strategy. Yeah, and they're doing it right,
and all the.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Above considering how the expense associated with whether you go
nuclear or coal or natural gas or put up a
windmill farm. Coal is the cheapest option apparently, because they
can put up a new coal generation factory in virtually
no time.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
They can, and you know, quite frankly, it's still the
cheapest way of doing things. And so there's if you
look at the West that has retired at coal versus
the people adding coals, it's insane.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Google it, go look at it. Oh, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Well, and I guess you could use New Jersey as
an illustration of how terrible things have gotten following green policies.
They close down the nuclear pants or the plants, they're
coal generation facilities in a rush to go full carbon
neutral before they had the carbon neutral or panel and
wind farm infrastructure even in place, which means they had
(08:03):
to rely on Pennsylvania for all their liquid natural gas
to keep their energy production going because they didn't have
their own source of energy production anymore. It's just it's
like the European Union buying from Russia. We stopped producing
it in the European Union and start supporting the Russian
economy by buying it from them.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yes, and We've seen this play out in Europe also,
where people in Norway are upset because their electric prices
are rising because they're backfilling Germany when Germany is short.
The same thing in France, and I've mentioned before France
has had to save both hard to say, but France
is actually say both Germany and Spain from their own policies,
(08:45):
relying on the backbone of French electricity, which is nucuclear power.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Nuclear They have what forty reactors.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
They have somewhere in that neighborhood, and it produces, depending
on the day, somewhere between seventy five and eighty percent
of their entire electric needs, and exports and exports to
other countries. And yet they won't allow themselves to have
air conditioning. Yes, did you see the article? I saw
the Wall Street Journal article about that.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, if you have air conditioning, only air conditioned one
room and never ever set the thermostat below, was it
seventy eight degrees?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Seventy eight degrees? Yeah? You know.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Here, here's the whole point I think is, do you
look at policy through a lens of prosperity, And I
don't mean just get rich, I mean comfort for your
fellow man, or do you look at it from a
scarcity perspective and when you look at it through sarsity fox.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Scarcity, Yeah, it is, there isn't. I mean, electricity production
is only scarce because we regulated into scarcity.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
That's very true.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And you know, speaking of electricity, we have a shortfall
coming up because we too, under the previous folks have
ret I hired a bunch of coal fired power plants
while our demand goes up for lots of different reasons,
but the number one is we have more people here
than we've ever had. They've been moving to the South
it's hotter in the south and AI generation data centers.
(10:17):
We're going to have our own electricity crunch in the
next five to ten years. And that's why the current
administration is moving as quickly as possible on permitting all
forms of new power generation.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Including my favorite, these small modular nuclear reactors. Yes more
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Speaker 2 (11:41):
This is fifty five krc an iHeartRadio station our seven
twenty one.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
I'm thinking about krcdtalk station by the Times with the Briga
mcgowns from the Hudson Institute Energy policy expert. He is,
of course, you'll find them all over the place. Charged
Conversations is Briga mccowns podcast, and I strong I encourage
my listeners to take a listen to that.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
You got a new one that came out or is
coming out.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, I've got a new ones coming out on the
US and EU trade policy and how energy plays a
role there. And then we've had one that just came
out within the last ten days or so on natural
gas as the workhorse for American energy.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Always excellent your thoughts, insights and expertise on those subjects, Brigham.
So we'll be looking for that again. Charged Conversations. We
were talking about COEO two emissions, and I know Donald
Trump has gotten rid of that endangerment finding sort of
a I don't know, an alchemy way of turning carbon
dioxide into a pollutant by saying it contributes to air pollution,
(12:43):
although by and in and of itself, it is not
a pollutant.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Correct, Correct? And what and Brian you're spot on? What
makes it different is most of the pollutants that the
EPA when it came into being under President Nixon back
in the seventies, right, we were to clean up uh
Cuyahoga River. We didn't want articulates, right, yeah, lead, mercury,
things that are actually carcinogenic or harmful, things that are
(13:09):
harmful to your health. And if we look back at
the seventies versus a day, our water, our air, our
land is so much cleaner, dramatically, so dramatically, and repealing
that endangerment finding is important because that is the lunchpin
that allows plane of flawyers to run around the country suing.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
The polluters.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Right, not you and me that buy the stuff, but
the companies that produce our gasoline.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Oh, wait for it, Brigham, wait for it. You see
a massive class action against humanity. You're all responsible.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
No, no, write a check, Brigham, you respond, write a check.
We're all responsible.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And that wasn't what I know that if you if
you're producing carbonaxid, then somehow you have to engage in
a carbon capture program which comes at some outrageous costs.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Like a coal plant.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
It this, well, you need to capture all the carbon
dioxide that comes out of it. That renders it impossible
to make a profit.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
So here's a couple things that mister Meysmith said that
I thought were pretty interesting.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Running back to the c span for just a second.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Repealing the endangerment finding would be catastrophic for climate and
public health. And aggressive EPA action is essential regulation volume.
That's the amount of rags, I guess is a proxy
for climate progress. Okay, speaking of progress, I know you
have a chart, a valid chart which has tracked the
(14:37):
CO two emissions from what around nineteen seventy to today.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Nineteen hundred actually teen hundred to today. Where does the
statistic come from?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
This came from the folks over at our world today
that put charts together. You can google these charts anywhere
on the internet.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And put in your learn experience. These are valid figures.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, they come from national international sources. These are accepted charts.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
The kind of stuff that the various UN climate regulatory
agencies rely on. Yes, absolutely so, from nineteen hundred to today,
how much progress have we made on this evil carbon
dioxide breaking the count?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Well, it depends on what country you live in.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Right now, if we talk about emissions and billions of tons,
nineteen hundred we went from about four now we're about
forty tons, forty billion tons of CO two a year. Okay,
that sounds pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Not to me because of plant food, yes, yes, but
as a percentage of the atmosphere, it's still a fraction
of a percent, right.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Oh my gosh, it's less than one half of one percent.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
All right, yeah, not a whole lot of plant fluid
of food out there, no.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
And plants actually thrive on this. And so what I
find interesting is if we look at the Western world.
In the US emissions, by the way, we're below two
thousand and five levels on CO two. We are down substantially,
but for some reason that chart keeps going.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Up, right, And the European Union is also down on
CO two emissions.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
They are down.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I guarantee you every Western nation is down in CO
two emissions.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
So if we take the US and Europe together, we're
about where we were nineteen sixty eight nineteen seventy total emissions.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
In spite of massive population increases. Yeah exactly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
We more electricity generation, more demand, more use of and
yet we're.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Static, yes, in fact down a little bit, down a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
And where has all of the extra billions of carbon
dioxide come from?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Briging the colen gosh, Brian, I'm so glad you asked.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
It looks like India has gone from a little tiny
line to a really thick red line. In fact, India
right now produces more CO two than the Western world.
I'm sorry, I'm misreading that. I need to put my
glasses on red. China obviously, all right, Yeah, China produces
more CO two than the rest of the Western world combined.
And India has also gone from a tiny sliver too,
(17:24):
more than the US or Europe. They're getting close to
both of us. But give them, give them time here,
give them time. Briging well, Pauls will bring brigg in
the comeback. Just shed a little dose of much needed
reality on the insanity we have to deal with with
this CO two problem. That's not a problem.
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Speaker 3 (18:44):
Over the years you've bear see the talk station.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Seven thirty one fifty five KRC. Talkstation Hudson dot Org
is where you find Brigham account and the Hudson Institut.
Brigham our energy policy expert in studio. One more segment
here with Brigham before he is off to take his
off to college, and congratulations to your son, real milestone
for him.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Thank you very much. And the parents. Oh yeah, well
I tried.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I went through that, so yeah, I know I didn't
have to drive as far as you. So good luck
on the journey and safe travels to you and your family.
So your wife's waiting in the wings. Hurry up, rigam,
get home. We're going to go on a road trip.
So one more, moving back to energy policy. Yeah, and
I know, we got some new guidance on windmill and
solar farms here, which makes it a little more difficult
(19:28):
under the big one, big beautiful bill to continue working
on a project if it hasn't actually started. So maybe
some clawing back on that. But what of solar. I
thought that was going to be the salvation of the
of the world. They're not doing solar anymore.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Well, yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
You know, if you look online, all you see is
renewables are taking over x number a gigawats at it.
By the way, in real in traditional power, let's take coal,
nuclear gas. When you add megawatts of power, it's a
real number.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
You know.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
It's like driving your car. When you say it has
x number of horse power, it has x number of
horse power. When you add gigawatts or megawatts of solar
or wind, what you have installed is not necessarily what
you get out of the.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
City, just depended upon the weather it is.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
And so people are like, well, we added this much,
you don't know, not necessarily and it's what we call
intermittent because it is not a dispatchable power source, meaning
it's not available twenty four to seven. And what's happened
is until about twenty twenty three, solar looked like it
was on an exponential curve, and then suddenly it flatlined.
(20:45):
We're not installing anymore solar in twenty twenty five than
we did in twenty twenty three. Why because around the
world subsidies are ending.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And the same thing is true on wind. I don't
know if you've seen, but some of the wind perers
are going bankrupt, asking for one Danish company is asking
for a nine billion dollar bailout from the Danish government
because it doesn't it doesn't make sense. So the whole
point of energy security is to have available energy where
(21:15):
and when you need it at at a affordable price,
and that's where some of these other technologies fall short.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Well, subsidies blur the line of what's affordable and what's not.
If you subsidize something, you take away the pain associated
with the real cost of it. You give someone seven
thousand dollars in a tax credit for buying an EV
that they otherwise wouldn't have bought or couldn't afford. It
maybe makes it affordable, It maybe makes it competitive with
an eternal combustion engine, But that's the taxpayer dollars going
to subsidize someone's private purchase.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
It absolutely is.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
And not to say that inflation isn't real, but you
know your non EV car, part of the cost of
that new EV car and why prices have gone up
is you are subsidient for the losses on the side.
So if we kept a focus on outcomes, right, if
CO two is your thing, tons down, install nuclear reliability,
(22:08):
stable bills, that's really what we're looking for now. The
other side will say, well, wait a minute, oil and
gas subsidies. You know, one of their favorite talking points
is we have to get rid of oil and gas subsidies.
But the reality is those are subsidies like there are
for renewables, to the extent that you could even claim
these things as subsidies. They are the same tax breaks
(22:28):
that any business owner gets in the entire country, regardless
of one line of.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Business you're in. Seeing the tax code, Yeah, that's not
a subsidy right.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Down for depreciation investments, you know, if I purchased the
durable goods, all of that, see your tax code.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yes, So it's a little disingenuous intellectually. Yeah to say, well,
you know oil and gas industries been subsidized for you, Well, not.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
True industry business period right, manipulated by the tax code.
I hate the tax code for that reason. I don't
want my behavior manipulated by some you know, ridiculous line
item in the tax code. You know you're going to
go to credit if you do this. No, thank you
very much. All right, let's let's let's wrap things up.
Bringham accout because they know you got to go. I
don't want to get in trouble with your wife. Let's
(23:12):
go back to some of the alarmist claims. Remember al Gore,
we should we all be dead by now. Because you
just pointed out our emissions levels, it basically remains static.
The global emissions levels have gone up because India and
China don't care. Among others. So we haven't made any
progress in terms of reducing global CO two volumes.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
And we're not dead yet. We're not dead. We're not dead.
And to the thought the ice capture, no, no, they were
and they haven't.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
In fact, Greenland is showing more ice than twenty five
year average. So back in December, right before Christmas two
thousand and nine, al Gore said there's a seventy five
percent chance that Arctic summer ice cap could be gone
in the next five to seven years. So let's see
two thousand and nine plus five twenty fourteen to twenty
(23:59):
six we're ten years out. Yeah, yeah, they're still there.
They're still there.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Be ok.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Bullar bears are doing just fine. Everybody else seems to
be doing pretty well. And I think that's part of
the issue.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Is uh.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I think most people will say, yes, the Earth is warming.
The problem is, uh, these climate alarmists are taking the
worst climate projection models and and here and here's something
they only talk about the worst case scenario. When you
look at climate models, there are a half a dozen
plus based on your assumptions to.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
No change to the world is going to end. And
guess which one they use. The world is going to end.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
And over the last five to ten years, when you
look at actual observed versus projection, they a'll match up.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Nope, but but here, but but they they keep going.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Sure as hell told us it was going to happen,
didn't they break? And we are all going to die?
Is really how I boil it down?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, and I think that is.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
You know that alarm is feeling as one of their
you know, one of the turn offs, right why people
kind of tune it out after a while because it's
just not credible.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, for the more intelligent among us, we don't look
at one specific weather event and immediately say this is
because of global warming. We look at patterns of weather
events over long periods of time, where we have data
showing that there really is no difference between the number
of hurricanes today is the word you know, a hundred
years ago, one hundred and fifty years ago, on and
(25:28):
on and on.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
You know, you're so spot on and thinking of hurricanes,
we've all seen well, we've got the European model, this model,
the Galileo model. You know, we can't even figure out
where a hurricane is going to go to, let alone
project you know, climate change or a long period of time.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
So yeah, it doesn't work any better.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I feel that way every time I read the weather
here in the morning, it's like, is it really gonna
be eighty one degrees later this week? I don't believe it,
but you know you got to guess on some level.
Brigha McCaw on Hudson dot orgers where you find Brigham
in the Hudson Institute.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
They do great work.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
And Brigham's always just so kind to come in the
program and talk about these very important issues. Uh yeah,
and you're smarter than they are. I know that, brighamccown.
It's always a pleasure man. You're always welcome.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Here, Brian, thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Good luck to your son in college. Save travels on
your trip back and forth. Absolutely seven thirty nine. Right now,
if you have kcdtalk station and get in touch with
plum tight plumbing, because it's always plumbing done right. When
you're talking with the folks of plumb type residential plumbing,
they handle it all. And the number one install on
the tri stay for tankless water heaters. Go tankless to
save space, go tankless to save money, their energy savers
(26:32):
and of course you go tankless to have unlimited hot water.
Multiple reasons do that. They are the number one installer,
so rely on the best, no service fees, free estimates,
A plus with a better business bureau, and they'll handle
your emergencies as well as they have for me in
the past. So always plumbing done right. Plump tight plumbing
UH seven two eighty four eighty three five one three
(26:53):
seven two seven Tight T t E Online you'll find
them at plumtight dot com.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
This is fifty five. I have KRC and iHeartRadio station.
It's summertime.
Brian Thomas News
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