Brigham McCown - Hudson Institute: Energy Policy

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Seven o six if aty five KRC DE Talk station.
Been a very happy Friday to you. Happy to welcome
back to the pe Pod KRC Morning Show. Wish she
was an institut but apparently he had a late night out.
We don't know what he was doing out there. Brigha
McCown from the Hudson Institute, Senior fellow there, director of
the Initiative on American Energy Security. Hudson dot org is
where you find him online. He has more than three

(00:35):
decades of domestic and foreign policy experience while serving in
multiple positions within an industry, government, and the military. And
he's also a professor at Miami University, teaching graduate and
undergraduate courses in law, policy and ethics. Welcome back, Brigham.
It's always great having you on my program.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Thanks so much. It's great to be with you this morning. Yeah,
late night out.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
We won't ask you to elaborate on the details, Brigham.
I'm sure it was something that was on the up
and up anyway, energy policy generally. I was happy for them,
and I'm happy to see it that they're rolling out.
But I'm a big fan of these modular small modular reactors.
The idea of using nuclear power because we don't have
to build a giant three mile island with the giant

(01:16):
cooling tower in old nineteen seventies technology. The world's evolved,
and nuclear power has evolved as well, and it generates
gazillions of amounts of power on a very small footprint.
Waste issues are not a problem, as we've learned as well.
But Ontario, Canada, they said they've given final approval for
the construction of the very first western world small modular reactor.

(01:39):
How come Ontario is getting to do it and we're not,
Brigham McCalla when this seems to me the answer to
everybody's climate change warriors because it doesn't put on any carbon.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, I know it does, doesn't it. And I think
it's partially because, you know, Ora policies, our domestic policies
have been some of our own worst Anny's light. For example, Brian,
I got back at one thirty in the morning on
a flight that was supposed to land at Cincinnati at
ten o'clock. Why because air traffic control is outdated. We
use stuff from the sixties and seventies. This is sort

(02:11):
of the mindset across all of the federal government, including
energy and what was once a very promising nuclear industry
in this country in the sixties and seventies, remember the
atomic age. We were going to do it everywhere everything
was atomic. We allowed ourselves to get mired in a
government red tape bureaucratic delays to where we're no longer innovative.

(02:37):
Other countries are moving much faster than we are. But
the good news is if there is one is I
think we're starting to figure this out. And Ontario, which
has a more conservative government, it's like, let's do this.
Why not?

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Well, and there's I mean in Ohio. I talked to
Vivak Ramaswami about this. He's all in favor of it.
I mean, he make Ohio the energy generation capital of
the United States. And you know, inexpensive energy draws business
and industry. And if we provide that, man, you just
you have to put a fence up to keep the
businesses from wanting to come into the state of Ohio.
I mean, it's just smart policy across the board. And

(03:14):
again there is no possible or legitimately underscore that or
reason for anyone to argue against this. It should be
embraced by the climate change o armist because it doesn't
produce anything by way of waste. It's just I don't
know as have our elected officials been propagandized into believing

(03:35):
every one of these represents a three mile island or
Cherniobyl like threat.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Well, I think there are a couple of different issues
at play, yes, in part. First of all, back to
your point on the cost of energy. You know, one
of things that we've explored at Hudson Institute is g
why does manufacturing leave. Well, it leaves because things cost
too much, and certainly wages can be part of that.
But the cost of energy and industrial building and an

(04:03):
industrial capacity is the tipping point between companies that make
profit and ie expand and hire more people and companies
that can't make it. And that's what Ohio and parts
of the quote russ Belt had experienced, was the loss
of energy, the loss of the loss of affordable energy.

(04:25):
When you don't have affordable energy, you don't put money
back into your plans, you don't put money back into
your infrastructure, and it's sort of a spiraling decay. And
so where we have cheap electricity, cheap energy, we're seeing
industry move back.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
In well, and all this on the heels of the
new announcement from this morning, Duke Energy is raising customers
prices again. Public you told, a commission of Ohio announced
that Duke Energy is going to be jump bumping the
price of the killowatt hour by two point five cents
per killowot hour. Sounds small, but it all adds up.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Bring them, Yeah, it does really all add up. And
you know, I hate to say it. Spent a lot
of times the utility companies they're like, yeah, we'll pass
it off to the consumer. You want to regulate this, fine,
you want us to use when us to use more
expensive energy, fine, we'll just pass it on to the consumer.
Say we had to do it the energy companies, the

(05:21):
utility companies need to step up and be part of
the solution. And say you would think, Brian, like, people
want to sell more electricity, right, I mean I'd want
to sell more if I make candy bars, I want
to sell more candy bars. But for some reason, the
utility industry just seems content to pass prices along and
not worry about it.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well, and I noted out in California, it was an
analysis that was done by the Specific Research Research Institute
talking about how unbelievably expensive it is to pursue this
green future out there. The study that they produce, so
the financial burden estimates that this green transition is going
to cost Californians each and every one of them seventeen

(06:03):
thousand plus between seventeen thousand and twenty thousand dollars per
family to switch over to just alternative energy sources that
are non carbon producing, and of course, none of which
includes the aforementioned small modular reactors I talked about.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, it is, it is, And you know, you look
at California wholesale electric prices if and increase more than
four fold, it's directly tied to their policies out there. Look,
if you want, if you want to throw up a
solar panel, you want to do windmill, fantastic, But you
get back to nuclear right to your point, if if
and assuming, if you're like, golly, carbon is a huge problem.

(06:42):
We need to take care of the environment with CO two,
which is only one of numerous greenhouse gases. But for
some reason we're going to fixate on that. Yeah, great,
n clear is a zero emission fuel. So if that's
your stick, then you ought to be all over nuclear.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Well and this the nefarious thing lurking behind the scenes.
I'm thoroughly convinced, Briga McCowan is that we did have
small modular reactors, they did produce an abundance of power.
We would expand our domestic production, we would increase our
consumption because inexpensive electricity translates to a better life for
all of us, and that therefore we would not fall
in line with the global alarming alarmists concerns about our

(07:24):
overconsumption and are destroying the planet with our you know,
buying up all the resources and consuming them. I mean,
you know, productive country does go through a lot of resources,
and I think that's really the goal here is to
undermine our productivity and our success here in this and
otherwise free quasi capitalist country.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Absolutely couldn't agree more. And by the way, if also
you're into the climate, you would think you would want
things made in America where we do take environmental protection seriously,
where we can do it by emitting far less harmful
products to the environment. And say, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
China, right, That's that's the other weird thing about these
climbate alarm ist Brigham, is that no one ever points
a finger at China, who regularly continues to build new
coal fired power plants. They don't have an EPA, they're
not concerned about the environment. They don't have strict rules
and regulations like we do. So we're just giving more
and more opportunity for the Chinese to keep their prices

(08:23):
down because while they have inexpensive electricity generated by polluting coal,
not a word about China, or rarely ever word. Although
China occasionally plays lip service to wanting to help with
dealing with climate chains, they don't lift a finger to
do anything about it.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
I think you've got their four to one one, Brian.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
I do, I do well. Pause will bring Brigham account
Hudson Institute. Go online to Hudson dot org and check
that page out bookmarket. It's got some great material there.
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Speaker 2 (09:11):
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Speaker 1 (10:44):
It's seven eighteen if you've got KRCD talk station. Brian
Thomas with Brigham Account Hudson dot orgs where you find
the Hudson Institute. He is the Senior Fellow Director of
Innovation on American Energy Security. That's another component of energy
production is secure already bring them as to have a
secure America. He needs secure grid and the other component

(11:06):
of this, although away from energy production, is the idea
that our grid isn't necessarily secure from the Chinese Communist Party,
hackers or other nefarious actors in the world who could easily,
I've come to the understanding easily just shut the grid down,
which would result in obvious chaos for multiple reasons.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Oh, it absolutely would. And I think, Brian, that's another
reason why this rush to electrify everything is maybe well
intended by some, but there's nothing wrong with natural gas.
I've got it in my house, most people do have it.
Let's not put all of our eggs in one basket.
There needs to be we call it a Belton sustenders approach.

(11:48):
You have to have backups, so you have to have
ways to ensure the stable supply of energy, whether it's
related to natural events or man made events. And you know,
I think that's clear. We've seen the CCP intentionally get
into our electrical, our power, our other energy infrastructure. So

(12:12):
far it seems to be probing around. But you know
these are not good guys. You know your friends, don't
you know, don't come into your house middle of the
night and rummage through your stuff. They're looking for pain points,
They're looking for ways that should a conflict to come up,
or should we tell them they can't take over Taiwan
or they can't do whatever they want to do. Part

(12:35):
of that strategy is to figure out how to make
it hurt to us in ways that they're not traditional
type of warfare that we're used to exactly.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Well, I keep pivoting back to California, and you know,
they're pushed to get everybody in an electric vehicle and
achieve zero emission status by some randomly selected year. There
was a study by the University of Southern California came
out noting that because of all of the refinery shutdowns,
which were in large part pushed by all the regulatory costs, burdens,

(13:08):
and obligations the government of California State placed upon these refineries,
including the litigation that they filed against the petroleum companies
claiming that they're directly responsible for global warming, a nonsensical
legal position, but they said that this researcher concluded that
by the end of the year, regular gas prices could

(13:28):
jump from four dollars and eighty two cents, which was
the norm in California as of April this year, to
as high as eight dollars and forty four cents by
the end of next year. That's that's insanity right there.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
You know, it is in sanity, especially when if you
go to Los Angeles, that is like a car city.
They don't even try to do much in the way
of urban transit there. They're like, we like our cars, well,
Los Angeles, And so it's kind of a bit of
a head scratcher for sure, because you know, this notion
of fossil fuel being phased out, it's not going to

(14:04):
happen overnight. Even the most optimistic forecast, if you are
really into this, is that the country is still predominantly
fossil fuel based, especially in the transportation sector out past
twenty fifty. But what we do know is powered by
the green agenda. In California. There are a couple of
reports out that talk about how California's electricity rates are

(14:25):
almost double the rest of the country double second highest
in the nation, just behind Hawaii, which is a whole
nother story. But from nineteen to twenty three, which is
the latest data, if you look at California's three largest
investor owned utilities, SoCal, PGNA, and Sacramento Area, prices have

(14:47):
increased between forty eight and sixty seven percent for electricity.
Some of that, some of that is caused by the
wildfires and the fact they have not been upgrading their infrastructure.
They've been putting solar panels everywhere, but it doesn't cost less.
It costs a lot more.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Right, Well, in those programs wouldn't exist but for subsidies,
which are nothing more than taking tax dollars and then
turning them into a subsidy to get people to do
something that they don't want to do and make giving
it the appearance that it's actually affordable. It's just this
circular pleasure fest that goes on with our taxpayer dollars.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
I'm so glad, I'm brod. I'm so glad you mentioned that,
because you know, when you talk to people there, they
seem to think that subsidies and tax rebates they're free.
They're free, they don't cost us anything. They don't come
from anywhere. You know, when you hear the term subsidy, right,
the federal government is giving you something and that comes

(15:45):
from each and every one of us. You know, it
could be used to reduce the deficit, could be reused
to do other things, but now it's there is no
such thing as a free money tree in the backyard,
or I think we'd probably already have one.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Well one more thing along the lines of what the
undo California. But I was kind of I view with
with really some positive perspective and optimism. Two forty six
to one sixty four vote for a Congressional Review Act
resolution to repeal the waiver that the EPA granted California
for its EV mandate. This just happened last week, so

(16:17):
pasted with bipartisan support. You had thirty five Democrats joining
the Republicans to repeal the EV mandate. Electric vehicles not
the popular things that they were really hoping they would be,
again going back to subsidies. In order to get people
to buy them, you had to incentifize them with a
seventy five hundred dollars tax credit.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yes, absolutely, And you know what's really important about that
EPA waiver to California was you know, if you think
about it, it started out as a rational way, like, hey,
there's a federal standard for smog and pollution that comes
out of tail pipe, and if states wanted a higher level,
they could ask the federal government. Maybe you lived in

(16:57):
we remember dirty cloudy cities we were younger, and the
federal government said, okay. The problem is it's a waiver
which the federal government can grant. It also means the
federal government can take it away. And what California has
done is they've gotten their buddies on board. Now there
are between eleven and thirteen states that follow California's emission standards.

(17:19):
And then they go to all the auto manufacturers and say,
you know what, you might as well make every car
to our standard. And that means that affects the price
of the cars that we buy here in the Tri State.
And California has become the de facto federal regulator for
car emissions. It's crazy and it's time we pull that back.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
It is, and at least the House and with bipartisans support,
was able to do that last week. We'll see how
this advances. Brigham account. It's Hudson dot org. rEFInd the
Hudson and Stu Briingham. It's always a pleasure talk energy
policy with you on the program, and I'll look forward
to doing it again down the road. And hope you
have a wonderful weekend. My friend.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Thank you so much, and get people towards Charge Conversations.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
If you'd like to talk about this, I apologize for
not bringing that up. Yes, the podcast Charged Conversations with
Brigha McCown. Wherever you find your podcast, you'll find it,
and I recommend you check that out too, thanks to
the reminder there, Brigham. Have a great weekend. It's seven
twenty six fifty five KC the Talk station. Anna Marie Barnett,
the executive director of the Alzheimers Association Alzheimer's Association of

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Greater SINCINNTI coming up next, some alarming statistics and facts
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Andy