Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey ask got clouds to day, isolated light, isolated showers
(00:02):
seventy six for the hind, little fog overnight along with
clouds in a little sixty free. It's gonna be cloudy
again tomorrow, isolated afternoon showers and storms seventy eight pills
to move out Tuesday night it'll go down to fifty
two and then leaving us a sunny Wednesday with the
highest seventy three sixty nine.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Right now, time for traffic update cases.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
From the UCE Health Traffic Center. With uce Health, the
future of care is happening now through clinical trials and
innovative treatments that give patients eight chance for better outcomes.
Visit UCHealth dot com. Northbound seventy one. A slow ride
as you make your way up toward the two seventy
five merge there and accident blocks the right two lanes,
tapping the brakes back to Reagan South seventy five accident
(00:42):
Ezra Charles that's in the left lane. You stop and
go back toward Hoffle Street North seventy five in northern Kentucky,
Off and on slow from Donaldson all the way up
toward the Brent Spence Bridge and Jason Earhart on fifty
five KRC the talk station.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Hey thirty nine, Happy Monday too, you try to make
it happy anyway. Prayers to the folks that struggle for
the hurricane damage Geese all the way up to North Carolina.
The devastation that I've seen and all the videos floating
around on the Internet and the oh towns wiped out.
A lot of folks need help. And I always suggest
Matthew twenty five ministries. That's where your dollar results in,
basically a dollar in the hands of those who have
(01:18):
been impacted without further ado. I'm pleased to welcome back
to the fifty five KOSE Morning show, JT. Towns and
he's a freelance writer, armchair detective, self described lifelong resident Cincinnati.
Author of the two thousand and nine regional bestseller Queen
City Gothic. He was on the program to talk about
that as well as twenty fourteenth Queen City Notorious. His
work appear in the Cincinnai Enquirer. Since a magazine, World Magazine,
(01:40):
Crime Traveler and Clues, he has presented over three hundred
programs here in the Greater Cincinnati area. Is part of
his true crime lecture series, including Jack The Ripper, Lizzie Borden,
and the Lindenburg Kidnapping. Also teaches his Cincinnati True Crime
Detective class for the University of Cincinnati Communiversity Division. Welcome back, JT. Towns,
and you're going to be doing an empower use summon
are this Thursday beginning at seven pm on the assassination.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Of Abraham Lincoln? Could you have it back on the.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Show, Brian, Always a pleasure to be on with you. Yes,
I will be doing the Lincoln assassination Thursday at seven o'clock.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
All right.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I know he was killed by John Wilkes booth Ford Theater.
We all know the jokes that have come out over
the here other than the play. You know, how was
the play? But I've I never looked into this. It
isn't I mean, I've never viewed it, the same as
the Kennedy assassination. We help all these conspiracy theorists. I
just figured this is some disgruntled, like terrorist fanatic who
(02:36):
is angry that the slavery was over in the North
one of the Civil War.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
But it's more than that. I understand.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
It's not a bad it's not a bad description of it.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Brian.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
A lot of similarities to the Kennedy assassination. But the
characters in the Lincoln assassination are fascinating. You've got John Wilkes.
Booth stands alone among presidential assassins or attempt or. He
was not some pathetic loser like Lee Harvey Oswald and
all the rest of them. This guy was an alpha male,
(03:07):
a list actor.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Well a lot of questions.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, the most handsome man in America. He was called
really yes. And here is a case where we actually
had a conspiracy. Booth not unlike Lee Harvey Oswald was
killed before he could go to trial, but eight people
were convicted in the trial of the century. It was
a military tribunal. Four of those people were executed, including
(03:35):
Mary Surrat, the first woman ever executed by the federal government,
and four of them have served long prison terms. So
we had an actual conspiracy here, just not a very
good one.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Now, have you reviewed the evidence that led to their convictions,
because you know, in the aftermath is something as profound
as the assassination of a president, you know, looking to
find those guilty and quick to bring around judgment to
satisfy people because they want justice served. Was the evidence
solid against those that were convicted and executed.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
That is an excellent question, Brian. They arrested two hundred people,
but they only tried eight, and three of these people
weren't even involved in the assassination. It was more like
a kidnapped plot that never came about. People have debated
for centuries. Now was Mary Sarad guilty of helping Booth?
(04:30):
And doctor Samuel Mudd from your name is mud Fame?
You know, did he actually help Booth? So there's a
lot of controversy about just how guilty these people were.
I suspect in a civil trial, not a military tribunal,
some of these people would have been acquitted, and I
don't believe it would have had any executions.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Kind of figured that was what you were going to
tell me. You know, it's the lawyer in my head
with sort of a wheel spinning there, j T. What
was the I guess the motivation just simply revenge or
was there something they were hoping to accomplish, you know,
like people claimed January sixth was going to overthrow the government.
I might disagree with him on that, but that's what
the suggestion is that these folks think that they were
(05:12):
going to bring about something more than just getting revenge
on the man who was ultimately responsible.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Right, well, the Civil War had just ended. It's good Friday.
The whole of Washington, d c. And the North is celebrating.
It just drove Booth crazy. You know. He was a
ham actor. Wasn't really a very good actor, but he
was really good and he you know, jumping around and
sword fighting kind of way, that kind of actor. And
(05:38):
I think he just, you know, he was so eaten
up by the fact that he himself did not fight
for the South, even though he believed in their cause.
And he got an opportunity. He was picking up his
mail at Ford Theater on that Friday, and the clerk
let slip to him at Lincoln and his wife were
going to be there that night, and the whole thing
came together that day. Really not a lot of advance
(06:01):
planning at all. And I think he thought that the
South would welcome him with open arms if he kills Lincoln.
And it was nothing that was nothing like what happened.
The South was appalled that he did this, really, And yes,
and unlike the Kennedy assassination, though tragic, we got Lyndon
(06:24):
Johnson and the same policies went on. Lincoln's murder changed
the course of post Civil War history through the reconstruction.
Instead of getting Lincoln's kind and gentle with malice toward
non charity for all, we've got Andrew Johnson's draconian measures
against the South. And I think some of those problems
(06:45):
are still reverberating today. In fact, you know, people think
our political situation, you know, are our discourse were more
divided than ever before. Those people really haven't looked at
the history of this crime. We just came out of
a civil war over the most divisive issue in history, slavery,
(07:08):
and nothing going on today can compare to what was
going on in eighteen sixty five.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, I try to take comfort in that in these
crazy interesting times we live in, ours we find ourselves
living in because you know, like looking back at the
Vietnam era protests, the bombings, the terrorist organizations both domestic
and worldwide, I mean, it was a precarious, precarious time.
Then this also an unbelievably divided time for our country,
and yet we managed to persevere.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Oh, the scope of this, I mean, it was so
long ago. I don't know if you can compare it
to really what's going on today in terms of the
in terms of the ramifications, in terms of it being
the first great news story in history. And then you
have the execution of the Lincoln conspirators, which was photographed
(07:59):
with ten different photos. It was the first major news,
first news event ever to be recorded in sequential photographs.
And yeah, we executed a woman. Yeah that led to
Andrew Johnson's impeachment.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Oh really, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, Well I've learned a lot of this morning and
just scratching the surface what you're gonna be talking about.
It's Thursday night. You begin at seven pm and got
an hour and a half worth of this breakdown from JT.
Who's remarkable and how he explains things. Are you gonna
do any Q and A? I know this is we
can tune in from the comfort of our own home
by just simply registering the Poweroamerica dot org, or we
(08:39):
can show up in person at two twenty five North
and Boulevard at the empower You studios.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Exactly. Oh definitely we'll do a Q and A. I
think that talks about an hour, certainly hoping they get
some discussion and the conspiracy theorists will will probably be there, Brian.
You should see when I do the JFKs assination.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Oh yeah, imagine that.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
I'm doing that Wednesday night at the del Hie Township
Library and it gets very contentious.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Oh no, kidding, Township library. What time on Wednesday?
Speaker 4 (09:11):
That's seven pm at the Dell High Township Library. Oh yeah,
my JFK talks. I'm a former conspiracy guy, and I'm
a booth did it alone guy, And when you look
at the evidence, you know it pretty much was a
was a crazed loaner situation. There was no conspiracy in
my opinion. But boy, I appear to be in the
(09:33):
minority of that opinion.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Well would you cast yourself in the minority or majority
when it comes to the Kennedy assassination?
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Oh, seventy percent of the people never accepted the warrant commission.
I used to be one of those conspiracy guys. And
then you start looking at the evidence, and it was
Lee Harvey Oswald all by himself. If this was just
an ordinary homicide, he would have been quickly convicted. But the
fact that you throw JFK in and imbuse it with
(10:02):
all these lofty conspiracy things. But it was a pretty
simple crime really.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Well, Ruby didn't help anything by killing kille Harpy because
that just added fuel to the conspiracy fire he did.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
And in Lincoln we had the sergeant Boston Corbett, a
I'll say this, a self castrated religious eunuch who shot
Booth when they were trying to arrest him in that barn.
So we've had Ruby and Boston Corbett, two just crazy
avengers who killed the assassin and spawned a thousand conspiracy theories.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
He's self castrated. Okay, that speaks volumes. There's a DSM
five diagnosis in that one.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
JT. Indeed, indeed, Well, it's great hearing from you today.
Thanks for spending time, Ryan.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
If I could get in a shameless plug, I think
a lot of your please, a lot of your listeners
know I'm constant working the brick and Murders of nineteen
sixty six. My third book, Summer's Almost Gone, is now
and it's fourth printing, And if you haven't read this book,
you should. And on my website www dot JT. Townshend
(11:15):
dot com. If you order this book and put WKRC
in the coupon code ten dollars off, be.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Care seeing the coupon code at JT. Townsend, t ow
n S e n D dot com get yourself that
along with the other stuff. I mean, you wrote fabulous books.
I enjoyed talking about the Queen City Gothic as well
as a Queen City Notorious. I recommend my listeners get
those as well well.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
I'd love to see your audience get this book. I
am working diligently to try to get the DNA retested
in Cincinnati's most notorious cold case, and I'm I'm still
working on it. You know, DNA is so advanced now
you can you can solve cold cases long after all
the sudden dead.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
It's truly amazing. And anytime you get updated on that.
When you got a spot here in the morning show, JT,
trust you on.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I'm going to take you up on that this fall
at some point.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Perfect I enjoy I listened to fascinating conversations. I appreciate
what you're doing, and I wish you the best on
getting that DNA evidence.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Well.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
I would love to talk about the breakercase with you
at some point on the air.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Joe Streckers made a note of it, so we will
definitely do that.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
JT.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Townsend, It's Thursday night, empower Youoamerica dot org or two
twenty five North and Boulevard. Make sure you register ahead
of time. Either way, you slice it great having you
on JT and enjoy the conversation on Thursday.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Great thanks Brian.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Eight fifty one fifty five KRCD talk station, be right
back fifty five krc
Hey ask got clouds to day, isolated light, isolated showers
(00:02):
seventy six for the hind, little fog overnight along with
clouds in a little sixty free. It's gonna be cloudy
again tomorrow, isolated afternoon showers and storms seventy eight pills
to move out Tuesday night it'll go down to fifty
two and then leaving us a sunny Wednesday with the
highest seventy three sixty nine.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Right now, time for traffic update cases.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
From the UCE Health Traffic Center. With uce Health, the
future of care is happening now through clinical trials and
innovative treatments that give patients eight chance for better outcomes.
Visit UCHealth dot com. Northbound seventy one. A slow ride
as you make your way up toward the two seventy
five merge there and accident blocks the right two lanes,
tapping the brakes back to Reagan South seventy five accident
(00:42):
Ezra Charles that's in the left lane. You stop and
go back toward Hoffle Street North seventy five in northern Kentucky,
Off and on slow from Donaldson all the way up
toward the Brent Spence Bridge and Jason Earhart on fifty
five KRC the talk station.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Hey thirty nine, Happy Monday too, you try to make
it happy anyway. Prayers to the folks that struggle for
the hurricane damage Geese all the way up to North Carolina.
The devastation that I've seen and all the videos floating
around on the Internet and the oh towns wiped out.
A lot of folks need help. And I always suggest
Matthew twenty five ministries. That's where your dollar results in,
basically a dollar in the hands of those who have
(01:18):
been impacted without further ado. I'm pleased to welcome back
to the fifty five KOSE Morning show, JT. Towns and
he's a freelance writer, armchair detective, self described lifelong resident Cincinnati.
Author of the two thousand and nine regional bestseller Queen
City Gothic. He was on the program to talk about
that as well as twenty fourteenth Queen City Notorious. His
work appear in the Cincinnai Enquirer. Since a magazine, World Magazine,
(01:40):
Crime Traveler and Clues, he has presented over three hundred
programs here in the Greater Cincinnati area. Is part of
his true crime lecture series, including Jack The Ripper, Lizzie Borden,
and the Lindenburg Kidnapping. Also teaches his Cincinnati True Crime
Detective class for the University of Cincinnati Communiversity Division. Welcome back, JT. Towns,
and you're going to be doing an empower use summon
are this Thursday beginning at seven pm on the assassination.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Of Abraham Lincoln? Could you have it back on the.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Show, Brian, Always a pleasure to be on with you. Yes,
I will be doing the Lincoln assassination Thursday at seven o'clock.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
All right.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I know he was killed by John Wilkes booth Ford Theater.
We all know the jokes that have come out over
the here other than the play. You know, how was
the play? But I've I never looked into this. It
isn't I mean, I've never viewed it, the same as
the Kennedy assassination. We help all these conspiracy theorists. I
just figured this is some disgruntled, like terrorist fanatic who
(02:36):
is angry that the slavery was over in the North
one of the Civil War.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
But it's more than that. I understand.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
It's not a bad it's not a bad description of it.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Brian.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
A lot of similarities to the Kennedy assassination. But the
characters in the Lincoln assassination are fascinating. You've got John Wilkes.
Booth stands alone among presidential assassins or attempt or. He
was not some pathetic loser like Lee Harvey Oswald and
all the rest of them. This guy was an alpha male,
(03:07):
a list actor.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Well a lot of questions.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, the most handsome man in America. He was called
really yes. And here is a case where we actually
had a conspiracy. Booth not unlike Lee Harvey Oswald was
killed before he could go to trial, but eight people
were convicted in the trial of the century. It was
a military tribunal. Four of those people were executed, including
(03:35):
Mary Surrat, the first woman ever executed by the federal government,
and four of them have served long prison terms. So
we had an actual conspiracy here, just not a very
good one.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Now, have you reviewed the evidence that led to their convictions,
because you know, in the aftermath is something as profound
as the assassination of a president, you know, looking to
find those guilty and quick to bring around judgment to
satisfy people because they want justice served. Was the evidence
solid against those that were convicted and executed.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
That is an excellent question, Brian. They arrested two hundred people,
but they only tried eight, and three of these people
weren't even involved in the assassination. It was more like
a kidnapped plot that never came about. People have debated
for centuries. Now was Mary Sarad guilty of helping Booth?
(04:30):
And doctor Samuel Mudd from your name is mud Fame?
You know, did he actually help Booth? So there's a
lot of controversy about just how guilty these people were.
I suspect in a civil trial, not a military tribunal,
some of these people would have been acquitted, and I
don't believe it would have had any executions.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Kind of figured that was what you were going to
tell me. You know, it's the lawyer in my head
with sort of a wheel spinning there, j T. What
was the I guess the motivation just simply revenge or
was there something they were hoping to accomplish, you know,
like people claimed January sixth was going to overthrow the government.
I might disagree with him on that, but that's what
the suggestion is that these folks think that they were
(05:12):
going to bring about something more than just getting revenge
on the man who was ultimately responsible.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Right, well, the Civil War had just ended. It's good Friday.
The whole of Washington, d c. And the North is celebrating.
It just drove Booth crazy. You know. He was a
ham actor. Wasn't really a very good actor, but he
was really good and he you know, jumping around and
sword fighting kind of way, that kind of actor. And
(05:38):
I think he just, you know, he was so eaten
up by the fact that he himself did not fight
for the South, even though he believed in their cause.
And he got an opportunity. He was picking up his
mail at Ford Theater on that Friday, and the clerk
let slip to him at Lincoln and his wife were
going to be there that night, and the whole thing
came together that day. Really not a lot of advance
(06:01):
planning at all. And I think he thought that the
South would welcome him with open arms if he kills Lincoln.
And it was nothing that was nothing like what happened.
The South was appalled that he did this, really, And yes,
and unlike the Kennedy assassination, though tragic, we got Lyndon
(06:24):
Johnson and the same policies went on. Lincoln's murder changed
the course of post Civil War history through the reconstruction.
Instead of getting Lincoln's kind and gentle with malice toward
non charity for all, we've got Andrew Johnson's draconian measures
against the South. And I think some of those problems
(06:45):
are still reverberating today. In fact, you know, people think
our political situation, you know, are our discourse were more
divided than ever before. Those people really haven't looked at
the history of this crime. We just came out of
a civil war over the most divisive issue in history, slavery,
(07:08):
and nothing going on today can compare to what was
going on in eighteen sixty five.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, I try to take comfort in that in these
crazy interesting times we live in, ours we find ourselves
living in because you know, like looking back at the
Vietnam era protests, the bombings, the terrorist organizations both domestic
and worldwide, I mean, it was a precarious, precarious time.
Then this also an unbelievably divided time for our country,
and yet we managed to persevere.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Oh, the scope of this, I mean, it was so
long ago. I don't know if you can compare it
to really what's going on today in terms of the
in terms of the ramifications, in terms of it being
the first great news story in history. And then you
have the execution of the Lincoln conspirators, which was photographed
(07:59):
with ten different photos. It was the first major news,
first news event ever to be recorded in sequential photographs.
And yeah, we executed a woman. Yeah that led to
Andrew Johnson's impeachment.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Oh really, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, Well I've learned a lot of this morning and
just scratching the surface what you're gonna be talking about.
It's Thursday night. You begin at seven pm and got
an hour and a half worth of this breakdown from JT.
Who's remarkable and how he explains things. Are you gonna
do any Q and A? I know this is we
can tune in from the comfort of our own home
by just simply registering the Poweroamerica dot org, or we
(08:39):
can show up in person at two twenty five North
and Boulevard at the empower You studios.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Exactly. Oh definitely we'll do a Q and A. I
think that talks about an hour, certainly hoping they get
some discussion and the conspiracy theorists will will probably be there, Brian.
You should see when I do the JFKs assination.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Oh yeah, imagine that.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
I'm doing that Wednesday night at the del Hie Township
Library and it gets very contentious.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Oh no, kidding, Township library. What time on Wednesday?
Speaker 4 (09:11):
That's seven pm at the Dell High Township Library. Oh yeah,
my JFK talks. I'm a former conspiracy guy, and I'm
a booth did it alone guy, And when you look
at the evidence, you know it pretty much was a
was a crazed loaner situation. There was no conspiracy in
my opinion. But boy, I appear to be in the
(09:33):
minority of that opinion.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Well would you cast yourself in the minority or majority
when it comes to the Kennedy assassination?
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Oh, seventy percent of the people never accepted the warrant commission.
I used to be one of those conspiracy guys. And
then you start looking at the evidence, and it was
Lee Harvey Oswald all by himself. If this was just
an ordinary homicide, he would have been quickly convicted. But the
fact that you throw JFK in and imbuse it with
(10:02):
all these lofty conspiracy things. But it was a pretty
simple crime really.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Well, Ruby didn't help anything by killing kille Harpy because
that just added fuel to the conspiracy fire he did.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
And in Lincoln we had the sergeant Boston Corbett, a
I'll say this, a self castrated religious eunuch who shot
Booth when they were trying to arrest him in that barn.
So we've had Ruby and Boston Corbett, two just crazy
avengers who killed the assassin and spawned a thousand conspiracy theories.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
He's self castrated. Okay, that speaks volumes. There's a DSM
five diagnosis in that one.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
JT. Indeed, indeed, Well, it's great hearing from you today.
Thanks for spending time, Ryan.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
If I could get in a shameless plug, I think
a lot of your please, a lot of your listeners
know I'm constant working the brick and Murders of nineteen
sixty six. My third book, Summer's Almost Gone, is now
and it's fourth printing, And if you haven't read this book,
you should. And on my website www dot JT. Townshend
(11:15):
dot com. If you order this book and put WKRC
in the coupon code ten dollars off, be.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Care seeing the coupon code at JT. Townsend, t ow
n S e n D dot com get yourself that
along with the other stuff. I mean, you wrote fabulous books.
I enjoyed talking about the Queen City Gothic as well
as a Queen City Notorious. I recommend my listeners get
those as well well.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
I'd love to see your audience get this book. I
am working diligently to try to get the DNA retested
in Cincinnati's most notorious cold case, and I'm I'm still
working on it. You know, DNA is so advanced now
you can you can solve cold cases long after all
the sudden dead.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
It's truly amazing. And anytime you get updated on that.
When you got a spot here in the morning show, JT,
trust you on.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I'm going to take you up on that this fall
at some point.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Perfect I enjoy I listened to fascinating conversations. I appreciate
what you're doing, and I wish you the best on
getting that DNA evidence.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Well.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
I would love to talk about the breakercase with you
at some point on the air.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Joe Streckers made a note of it, so we will
definitely do that.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
JT.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Townsend, It's Thursday night, empower Youoamerica dot org or two
twenty five North and Boulevard. Make sure you register ahead
of time. Either way, you slice it great having you
on JT and enjoy the conversation on Thursday.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Great thanks Brian.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Eight fifty one fifty five KRCD talk station, be right
back fifty five krc
Brian Thomas News
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