Jack Windsor - War on Hemp and Property Taxes

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Down around the country. I need to know the weather
in traffic. Listen and you'll know. On fifty five KRC talkstation,
appropriately time bumper music from executiroducer Joe Strecker. To deal
with the first topic, we're going to get too. If

(00:20):
Jack Windsor returns to these editor in chief of the
iiO Press Network, which you can find online and I
encourage you to do so the Ohio pressnetwork dot com
front page right there. Governor Ohio Governor suspends sales intoxicating
hemp products. Jack Windsor, it's great having you on the
fifty five KRC Morning Show. Sir. Welcome on Happy Friday.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Brian. It's always an honor to be here with you
and the Karc family and Joe, thanks for setting it up.
Always appreciate you here.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Thank you, and I love having you on because you'll
be able to explain a couple of things to me.
Most notably, we're going to get to this. I you know,
I'm I'm confused as hell about the Ohio property tax situation.
Let's table that just for a moment. I think I
understand hemp a little litle bit better. That's not a
revealing statement, but we have hemp is legal to grow.

(01:06):
I've had I mean, Thomas Massey worked on this forever.
Hemp has what point three or less of the intoxicating THC,
which is the big thing that's going to get your stone.
So hemp has got a million different industrial uses. You
can make clothes out of it, you can make ballpoint
pens out of it, you can make wood out of it,
on and on and on. An amazing multipurpose use. Minuderstanding.

(01:28):
It's easy to grow, it's it grows quickly. So this
has got all kinds of positives built into it. But
I draw a parallel, and you, Jack Windsor, can tell
me if I'm wrong. I guess industrial hemp's kind of
like the poppy plant. You can get opium out of poppy,
but that's not good enough. You need something stronger, so
you make morphine out of the opium, and then you

(01:48):
make heroin out of the morphine. So you keep concentrating
it and refining it to the point where it gets
well dangerous zero point three percent THC, I guess, can
be concentrated down to an intoxica level of THC. Have
I got the lay of the land on that, right, Jack?

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I think you do have the lay of the land
on that and one of the issues, and then I'll
stop because you may want to direct me into a
different direction. So one, it can be hyper concentrated and
extremely intoxicating. That's number one. But number two, I think
the geist under which DeWine has proposed this Executive Order

(02:26):
twenty twenty five five D. He's calling it an adulterated
consumer product emergency is that these products are maybe not
labeled accurately and they are sold without verification. So the
issue that DeWine talks about is a kid can go
to a corner store, c store, convenience store, gas station

(02:48):
and say, hey, I want some of those things that
look like gushers, are those things that look like cabbage
patch kids or those things that you know looks look
like whatever, and buy them, go to school, take them,
get high. And if you saw the press conference he
had on Wednesday, that was really what the lab coat
beside him said from the Poison Control Center was that

(03:08):
there has been a drastic increase in the number of
calls and poison cases for nineteen year olds in below,
some of those resulting in hospitalization. So there is there
are a couple of issues here, and we can kind
of tease those, tease those out, but I'll just stop there.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
No, that's an excellent it's a great, great explanation of
what's going on here. So it sounds to me like
something that's in need of labeling laws or you know,
there needs to be warnings, maybe an age cut off
like there is for alcohol, like there is for purchasing
legalized marijuana. You can't just walk into a store and
buy weed. At a marijuana shop, you gotta show them
your ID to get in. Blah blah blah. So you

(03:47):
can go to the like a convenience store and buy
these concentrates in the form of hemp without any other
protocols in place. That that's not sounds like something to
be need fixing. So do you have any criticism with
the way in which he went about it? This sounds
like it requires all legislative action.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Oh yeah. I spent my entire radio show yesterday dragging
Mike DeWine because I want to remind listeners and I'm sorry,
not sorry. This is a guy who vetoed the Safe
Act that would have kept kids from taking chemical castration
drugs and cutting off healthy body parts. This is a
guy who used tax dollars to incent experimental jabs for kids,

(04:27):
which we now know calls myocarditis, and we knew back then,
but he ignored those warnings. So whenever Mike Dwine strolls
out with a lab coat beside him to pretend like
he cares for kids, my initial thought is how much
BS am I going to have to wade through here
to get the truth. So that's one issue, But the
second issue is are we using a wrecking ball where
we could use a scalpel? And I like bourbon, I'm

(04:49):
not afraid us to say that, And so when I
look at intoxicating him, I go, why don't we treat
it like bourbon? And what I mean by that is
if you go to any gas station, you can get beer,
you can get wine, and you can get those little
fireballs right now, they're watered.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Down bourbon or water down liquor. Basically, if it's under
what ABV or something like that, yes.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
If it's under a certain percentage, you can get it.
And if you want the good stuff, as bourbon drinkers
like me would tell you, you go to an OHLQ
site in Kroger or in uh Giant eagle, So why
can't we do the same thing? And people go, well,
you know, do you know how hard it is to
let people know that they need to card? And I go, well, no,

(05:35):
that seems like a strong man argument, because if he's
going to outlaw intoxicating him by the fourteenth, guess what
he's going to communicate with sea stores, gas stations and
other purveyors of these products. Why can't you then say
in that communication, we're going to require you to card,
and then you can start this process of making sure
the labels are accurate, making sure that we create rules
through legislation around how much concentrated hemp you can sell.

(06:00):
But why can't we treat it like alcohol? My big beef,
by the way, is I have some friends in the
alcohol distribution business. I don't understand why an alcohol distribution
business who sells hemp beverages is now required to take
all of that off their shelves when frankly, those are
the ones that are probably labeled accurately and sold to

(06:20):
adult consumers. So again, this feels to me like a
wrecking ball, whereas scalpel is needed. I hope that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
It does, and I'm not disagreeing with you fundamentally. Now,
are there quality controls in connection with the so called
intoxicating hemp products? Because you go to a marijuana store,
it's it's got all kinds of quality controls. It has
to tay exact concentrations when it was inspected that it was
expected by a third party outside inspector. So you get
some level of comfort what you're smoking or taking whatever

(06:49):
isn't laiden with all kinds of chemicals or mites or that.
Now with the concentrated hemp industry, are they subject to
those quality controls?

Speaker 2 (06:58):
You know they are not, and they should be. And
I think that is the crux of the issue is
how do we get our arms around the packaging, what's
inside the package and making sure that it's compliant, that
it's accurate, that it's safe. And so that is certainly
a steer that we have to wrestle with here. I mean,
if you look at the story we have on the

(07:19):
Ohio Press network, we have them, we have pictures there
gushers and then you have other smaller branded gushers. That
is confusing. And by the way, that's probably an intellectual
property issue. I mean, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
I can't believe somebody has to do those distributors right. So, yes,
those are issues that I think we have to wrestle with,

(07:41):
But again, I think we do it legislatively. But here's
the other issue I want to bring up, Brian, because
I think I think it needs to be discussed. I
have a fundamental issue. If we're going to do this
the same way that we did casinos, we created a cartel.
We created a government monopoly. And if you're telling me
that in order to sell hemp you have to now
do it through the handful of dispensaries that our government approved,

(08:04):
I think that creates another government created monopoly, and I
think that stifles competition. And I'm not for that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
It does, and we outright rejected that cartel situation. The
voters of Ohio, the ones that approved legalization in marijuana,
ultimately said hell no to these hands selected what we
always referred to as cartel members. I remember talking to
the people who were behind the effort, and when you
look behind the scenes, Gee, I wonder how somebody was
hand selected. Oh, it's because you're John Bayner and you're

(08:31):
part of one of the collectives that is pushing for
one of these licenses. So, and it was supposed to
go into the Constitution at the time as well. Oh
my god, what a train wreck that was. So nobody
out there in the Ohio population wants to go down
that road, Jack Ones or I agree with you. Now,
is there something in connection with the chemical nature of
this intoxicating himp? Because I know law enforcements alway struggling

(08:53):
and legislators elect officials always struggling with they come out
with a designer drug which is not on anybody's field
of vision, it doesn't exist. It comes up one day,
it gets people whacked out of their mind, but it's
not scheduled. They have to pass a lass scheduling that
new compound. Is there some component of that involved with
the type of THHC that's coming out of these concentrates.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
I think that's exactly what's going to happen. This executive order.
I believe it has empowered the High Department of Agriculture
to determine what is intoxicating hemp and what is legal hemp. Essentially,
because intoxicating hemp will then be forbidden at least for
ninety days unless the legislature says after thirty days, no,
we're going to handle this. There's no more emergency order.

(09:35):
So I think what they're going to have to wrestle
with is exactly what you're talking about, what is the
concentration level, And we're going to have to get that
stuff though over the finish line in bills, not executive orders.
And so I think that's where this will shake out.
The challenge that we're going to run into is the
governor's intoxicating hemp Band has already drawn a lawsuit. The

(09:56):
Ohio Healthy Alternatives Association said Thursday it's suing to block
the executive action. So this will likely get tied up
in court. So potentially that executive order might you know,
a judge might issue a stay while this plays out
in court. Yeah, and so we're going to have time
to figure all that out. Well.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
If they issue an injunction, that is a suggestive of
likelihood of success on the merits, meaning those who are
seeking to stop this executive order. If they get an injunction,
then the court has already determined that maybe something was wrong.
He didn't have the authority to do it, he overstepped
his boundary. This is something that belongs to the legislative branch.
So popcorns out on that one. Jack Windsor will see
what happens. Points well taken this morning, I'll tell you what.

(10:36):
We'll pause now, we'll bring you back. See if you
can unpackage property tax in the state of Ohio. Yes,
Bill Sitz's Property Tax Working Group has issued their recommendations.
More with Jack Windsor after these brief words stick around
fifty five KRC. It's eighteen on a Friday. Happy Friday
to you. Bottom of the hour. We're gonna hear from

(10:57):
Corey Bowman aka jd Vance's half brother. Thank you Joe
on the rundown anytime. Jack wins is on the front.
He's a editor in chief of the Ohio Press Network
Final on line at of course, the Ohio Pressnetwork dot com.
Real quick comment on the last topic, Jack, question from
one of my listeners on an instant message, Well, Governor
to wine, build a build a wall to block the

(11:19):
borders from Ohio to Kentucky and maybe Indiana in order
to keep intoxicating hemp products out. I guess the next
question on that real Briefly, Jack Windsor, this doesn't stop
people from ordering it online and having it delivered to
their front door. Does it.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Well, that's a great question, and that's a question that
I didn't have an answer to yesterday, and I'm still
trying to discern. The initial answer was no, they can
still do the mail order thing, but I was warned
yesterday that that might be a sticky area. So if
that's what you're doing, I don't want to give any
legal advice. And frankly, again, I think that there's probably
going to be an injunction issued because HEMP is legal

(11:56):
and there are not laws essentially being broken, and so
you have an executive order to me that does not
have a law to backstop it. So I think we're
kind of in murky water here. I think the best
wine is going to get is a pause, and we're
going to probably have to get the lawmakers involved, and
I think they're frankly between you and me as we
toggle to this next topic, I think lawmakers are collectively

(12:17):
rolling their eyes like there goes the governor again, you know,
trying to trying to play congressional representative or state lawmaker
instead of playing governor. And I think they're about to
take the reins.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
On this right he'll get smacked by the courts, and
then the lawmakers, recognizing the obvious need for some fixes
and some holes in the bucket being plugged, should act
very quickly. This seems like a no brainer, Jack, All right,
what isn't a noverra Property Tax Working Group and the recommendations.
We've got a serious problem in the state of Ohio,
so much so there's a bout initiative to eliminate all

(12:47):
property tax as a constitutional amendment. And I know that's
got a lot of people quicking in their boots, and
I sort of smile over the concept because I love
the idea of not having property taxes, but the Charlie
foxtrot reality of having no property taxes up ends the
whole financing structure for parks and police and fire and

(13:08):
local issues and school boards. And are we going to
let Columbus decide where the money goes and are they
going to collect some extra sales tax whatever. But that,
of course has resulted in the Property Tax Working Group.
On the heels of the veto of three provisions that
would have provided some measure of relief for o high
WANs that was in the budget, Dwaine promised that none
of the Property Tax Working Group is going to give

(13:29):
us some great ideas, and here they are. Is there
anything in this Property Tax Working Group that you can
explain to my listeners, because as I read it, my
eyes gloss over jacket really is painful to read.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Let me take two tracks here. The first one is
to shed light on how serious this is. I believe,
based on my conversations with lawmakers, Brian, that lawmakers take
Governor Dowine's Property Tax Reform Working Group, stacked with lobbyists
who have vested interest in maintaining the status quo, about
as seriously as guys like you and me would take
a toddler's crayon scribbled business plan for running a lemonade

(14:04):
stand empire. I mean, it's king, but at the end
of the day, we're looking at a toddler's work. That's
totally how I feel that lawmakers are looking at this,
and you're right, real quick, Just a reminder, Originally County
Budget Commission authority would have been increased in the budget
cash balance carryovers for schools would have been restricted, a

(14:26):
revamp at the twenty mil floor calculation would have been
in play, and school district levee levees would have been
restricted because it would have take away misnomers like emergency
and replacement levees. Dwine didn't like those. But here's at
the end of the day, No, when you talk about one,
lawmakers are not taking this seriously. So regardless of what

(14:49):
they did or didn't don't, I don't think it's going
to make a bit of difference. But it was a
symbolic gesture. I mean, there was some focus on short
term fixes, like they would move the carryover balance that
schools could carry over to one hundred percent instead of
forty percent. They would create this five year glide path

(15:10):
for levies, which essentially says, look their grandfathers, you can't
cut them right. And there was a lot of support
for existing pieces of legislation, and so to me, it
shied away from radical overhauls, prioritizing what they would call
fairness and transparency over deep cuts. And at the end
of the day, Brian, I think you hit it nail

(15:32):
on the head. At the beginning, this feels like we're
rearranging deck furniture on the Titanic. Because property taxes might
be a sinking ship in the state of Ohio, citizens
said all right. Lawmakers listened, they put it in the budget, dwined, vetoed,
and now they didthered right and they came up with
this twenty point plan that doesn't seem to make a
damn bit of difference for the average taxpayer. I think

(15:54):
what this has done is it has increased interest in
totally slashing property tax is making them, you know, unconstitutional.
That's where I think we're at.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
How did let me just test the waters, Jack Windsor
how does that play out in reality? Going back to
my point, you take away the local property tax issues,
you take away the local levy issues, because there's no
more property tax, how does how do you sort of
deal with the aftermath?

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Jack? Yeah, no fair question, And I'm really glad that
you're holding my feet to the fire on this. The
example I'll give you that's cheeky is have you ever
taken a drug of choice away from an addict? An
addict will always find a way to get their drug
of choice, you know, all things being equal, Well, you're
trying to take money away from people addicted to power
and money. Eventually they're going to figure out a way

(16:42):
to get their money. And so I think the real
question is has it been done before, And the answer
is yes. Places like Wyoming, Tennessee, Nevada, Florida, Washington, they
have a state income tax of zero. Now in Ohio
we have a two point seventy five percent flat tax.
I think we're headed to zero there, but right now
it's two point seve and five percent. Those other states
that I just named, they have zero point six percent,

(17:04):
point sixty six point six, eight point eight nine point
ninety two, almost zero, but not zero property tax. And
so ultimately, if we have two point seventy five percent
income tax, that buoys some of that money. It's just
we're going to have to change the Ohio Revised Code
and rules in the o Hio Administrative Code on how
money flows through to those entities, particularly schools, fire departments,

(17:25):
and police departments. But overall, when you look at this
these other states, you know, no income tax, low property tax.
What do they do? Then they rely on sales tax
seven to ten percent, or excise taxes or business taxes.
So there are other revenue streams and what we will
simply see is an increase in those taxes and in

(17:46):
those assessments. But I'm going to go back to if
you ever take a drug of choice away from an addict.
They always find their drug of choice. I don't think
we're going to have an issue with the General Assembly
or other people in power finding a way to get
the money that they want. We're going to have to.
We all like change, right, It's the transition that sucks.
It's the transition that's going to be tough because we're
going to have to go from relying on property taxes

(18:08):
to fund these things to relying on other revenue streams.
But ultimately I think that's what's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Well, they're gonna have to get ahead of the curve
on this property tax issue where they look at the
working property tax, working group stuff, or some go down
some other path because they're going to have a lot
of work to do in elected capacity. If we repeal
the property tax in Ohio, they're going to have to
do a lot of work to do. Yeah, all right,
for sid Jack Windsor, you can find him again at

(18:33):
the Ohio Press Network and we'll look for you online,
Jack wins Or, appreciate what you do.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Man.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
You're always welcome here on the fifty five KERSA morning.
Should have a great weekend, Brother, Brian, you too, Thank you,
take care,