Episode Transcript
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(00:15):
Seven oh six here at Picky aboutkrc DE talk station and a very happy
Tuesday. He made that much happierwith the appearance in studio for a full
hour Peter Bronson. Everybody knows Peter, but to the extent you don't.
He's been a newsman in Michigan andArizona, Ohio. Award winning editor and
columnist for a two Suns, Citizenand of course the Cincinnati Inquirer. Grew
up in Michigan, graduated from MichiganState University. Bus boy, bartender,
(00:37):
car valet, pizza chef, constructionlaborer, snowplow driver. He's done it
all and he's been a host andproducer of on weekly TV news shows.
Servis a volunteer and a board memberfor nonprofits that aid neglected and abuse children.
And he is a lover of books, has been since he was a
kid. Broken television, well,he ended up in the library where people
learn things and learn the love ofreading. So after his career newspapers,
(01:00):
he became a publisher and editor anda ghostwriter with his company. And you
can find him online go to chilidogpress dot com, where he's published dozens
of titles, including his own works, which we're going to be talking about
today. Peter Bronson, it isawesome to see you again. Thanks for
coming to the studio talk today.Always good to be with you, Brian.
We always have a good time together, we do, and I just
love your books. Of course we'regoing to be speaking about them. And
(01:23):
the topic today brought about because itis the anniversary and a sad day.
It was Beverly Hills Supper Club fireburned at the ground on this date back
in nineteen seventy seven. Yes,and I was eleven going on twelve at
the time, and I remember watchingthe news reports while it was happening.
I had mentioned earlier in the programand I have in the past. And
my teacher at the time was ahuge John Davidson fan, and she was
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talking and I can't remember if shewas talking about the day before or the
week up to it, that oh, gosh, we really wish we could
go because we love John Davidson.He's going to be in town, or
it was afterwards we were planning ongoing but weren't able to make it.
But in any event, she fortunatelywas not there. My parents used to
love going to the Beverly Hill supperclub. Yeah, it was just the
destination place. I mean, itwas nationally known for the acts that came
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through there. The shows were fantastic. Supper clubs as a concept kind of
gone the way of the Dodo,haven't they. Yeah, they kind of
have. You don't see that muchanymore because I think the concerts became a
standalone venue when you could draw somany more people. But I mean they
would draw hundreds and even thousands ofpeople for somebody's act over the you know,
(02:30):
the course of the run of theshow. And John Davidson funny about
him because he was on Hollywood Squaresas you probably remember what Center Square,
right, and he was The wayI put it in the book is Everybody's
Mom loved John Davidson. Yeah,it's actually a perfect way of putting it.
(02:50):
Yeah, he was just the cleancut guy with longish hair and everything.
And he was a catalog model beforethat. But he had his own
show for a while. But hewas a big deal and they packed him
in, Oh my gosh, didthey pack him. And they oversold that
place with so many extra people.The overcrowding was ridiculous well, and of
course obviously led to the increased lossof life there. Yes, that was
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kind of the norm for the BeverlyHill Supper Club, right. They didn't
care about the rules, No,they didn't. And in fact, when
Dick Shilling, the owner, wantedto expand, he would just kind of
treat the architectural plans and the firecodes as a suggestion that he could ignore.
So he would go ahead and closeoff exits to add a room next
door, which he did in thecabaret room. Because they added the garden
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room which looked out the back,but that eliminated all the exits on what
would be the left side of theclub as you entered the door, so
there were very few exits. Theywere very poorly marked. It's not true
the local mythology about the doors beingpad locked, not true. But there
were ridiculously poor management of the crowd. They would stack up bars, portable
(04:02):
bars, and furniture right in frontof an exit, so when these people
were trying to get out of there, they didn't know where to go,
and when they did find that,it's an excit there are all this stuff
in the way. The doors wereset up so that one open outward and
one open inward, so as soonas this crush of people gets up against
that left side door that opens inward, there's no way there, there no
(04:23):
way. They stacked up in thedoorways until they were laying on top of
each other. A lot of thepeople that I heard this several times described
it like stacks of wood. Theyjust couldn't be pulled out. The people
on the bottom were still alive,and they couldn't be pulled out. There
just compressed by the weight of theothers. And I hate to draw parallels,
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but you know, parallels can bedrawn with the Who concert. He
was so packed, people were socrushed in together. If you somehow lost
your footing and ended beneath that crowd, that's how people lost their lives.
Absolutely, you just couldn't get up. I had a guy he was at
the concert, a childhood friend ofmine, and he said, you could
lift your legs up off the groundand the people around you would keep you
(05:10):
from falling. I mean it wasthat tightly pull my certain you were just
so pushed in there. And thenyou compound that with the doors and everything.
But yeah, this and the otherelement of this is and it can't
be overstated the smoke. Oh yes, you know if you don't have a
clearly illuminated exit that you can easilyget to once the smoke fills the room,
(05:30):
I mean, you're going to suffocateif you don't keep your head down
and you got to know where you'regoing, you know, Beverly Hill supper
Club. I'd make a conscious effortevery place I go. Now, where's
the fire exit? Yeah, where'sthe fire egg? Well, I heard
that a lot from people I interviewed. This was life changing for them that
once they realized how easy it isto be trapped in a place. Yeah,
and you mentioned the smoke. Itwasn't just smoke either, because once
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again Shilling didn't pay any attention towhat would be safe in a place like
that, So he had a lotof materials that you know, the Beverly
Hills supper Club fire, on thepositive side, changed a lot of laws
and regulations about what you can usein a public place. But back then
he was using all kinds of plasticsand synthetics that were extremely toxic. So
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that smoke, when it rolled intothe room in a big black cloud,
that's what killed a lot of people. They were stories about people walking out
of that place that night. Theylooked like they were just fine, and
they would drop dead a few minuteslater because the byproducts of combustion and that
smoke were so toxic and deadly.It was like poison. Oh my,
(06:35):
And you wrote about this and yourconnection to this in an amazing, amazing
book Forbidden Fruit, Sin, CitiesUnderworld and the Supper Club Inferno Since any
History Queen City of the West,and this was one of those books they
just couldn't put down because so manythings just truly unique to Cincinnati. But
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we were literally on the map becauseof Northern Kentucky and the gambling business that
went on there. Oh yeah,this was Vegas before it was Vegas,
exactly modall. It's the big Clevelandcrime boss who ran that empire of organized
crime in northern Kentucky for forty years, he said, when he went out
and did the same thing in Vegas, and it's became known as the godfather
(07:21):
of Vegas in a good way.He was the philanthropist. He was their
hero, even though he was agrimy little mobster from Detroit. But this
guy said everything I needed to knowto establish the desert in Las Vegas.
I learned at the Beverly Hills CountryClub in Cincinnati supper club supper Well,
(07:43):
it was a country before, isthat what they called it? Yeah,
for a long time it was calledthe Beverly Hills Country Club, and then
right after the nineteen forties, Ithink they changed over and it became Beverly
Hills Supper Club. I guess youanswer this and you talk about it at
length, and I'm recommend I thinkmy listeners read Forbidden Fruit, how Cincinnati
became Northern Kentucky ation more properly state. Cincinnati was all crystal clean. They
(08:09):
loved and everything that they all thevices were across the river. They could
claim this healthy. Oh yeah,yeah, But if you wanted to have
fun, he just walked across thebridge or drove across the bridge. Is
the case you have a good time? Yes? Uh. But that Northern
Kentucky could have become so huge interms of gambling, why not fill in
(08:31):
the blank some other city or someother locale. I think that goes back
to what my research showed is itgoes back to George Remis, and Remis
was the bootleg king, but notjust in Cincinnati. We think of that,
oh yeah, his king of bootleggers. Around here. No, he
was nationally known as the King ofBootleggers. He was a very bright guy,
and he cornered the market on allthis liquor that was sitting in warehouses
(08:52):
that he could get permits for tosell for quote unquote medicinal purposes, right,
And so that established him. Andthen he began to say, well,
look, when this runs out,I'm going to need another supply.
So he started his own bootlegging operation, and the biggest one for his distribution
network was in northern Kentucky. Andso the reason for that is that it
(09:13):
was so much easier to bribe everybodyyou needed in northern Kentucky than to do
it in Cincinnati. It's just lessexpensive, which speaks volumes to the aftermath
of the Beverly Hills supper Club Inferno, which was just revealed so much corruption,
unbelievable, which we will continue talkingabout with Peter Bronson. Get a
copy for Biden brut Sin Cities Underworldof the Supper Club Inferno. Will also
(09:35):
be talking about Not in Our Town, the Queen City's King of Queen City
versus the King of Smut, anda few words on his most recent book,
which is fantastic, the man whosaves Cincinnati. Peter Bronson here in
studio. So I'm fifteen right now. If you have ker City Talk station,
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Affordable Medimaging dot com five one threeseven, five three eight thousand,
fifty five KRC dot com. Needtime of the nine first forty one forecasts
(11:13):
then not bad, mostly sunny dayto day, partly cloudy, uh at
to partly cloudy, some range inthere. Seventy five is going to be
the highest, isolated showers every nightmostly to the north. Fifty three for
the low, a partly cloudy datTomorrow with isolated afternoon showers high of seventy
dry and partly cloudy Tomorrow night fiftytwo for the low, and a sunny
Thursday with the highest seventy three sixtytwo. Right now, Time for traffic
(11:33):
update from the UCUF Traffic Center.The University of Cincinnati Cancer Center is the
region's first and only provider specialized primarycare services for cancer patients and survivors.
Call five one three five feet fiveuc C see getting reports of an accident
on two seventy five near Kellogg.They're in the median two in the media
(11:54):
and at the moment the police areon their way. Traffic elsewhere do we
find no major? Time to Lakesnorthbound forth seventy one on the bridge.
Got Chuck Ingramo on fifty five krsthe talk station shy seven twenty one per
fifty five KRSD talk station in studiothe incomparable. Peter Bronson chilidog Press dot
(12:16):
com is where you find his publishingcompany and the books that he's published,
including his own. I'm gonna stronglyrecommend it. Joe's going to put it
on the blog page fifty five KRCdot com, along with a link to
Peter's other books, Forbidden Fruits,in Cities Underworld and The supper Club Inferno.
It is the anniversary May twenty eight, nineteen seventy seven, is when
the Beverly Hills supper Club burned down. Described by some and the authors of
the Beverly Hill Supper Club, theUntold Story of Kentucky's Worst Tragedy, which
(12:39):
has the photographs in it that shouldhave been presented to the world but were
covered up. They called it oneof the worst cases of mass murder in
US history. And you agree withthat with that conclusion people, Yes,
that actually came from a fire marshalwho at John Jay University, who studied
this exhaustively. For my research,I was able to depend and rely on
(13:01):
a lot of people who had studiedthis and investigated it because it was such
a huge tragedy and crime. Sowhat happened that night the governor arrived in
the fire marshal that I interviewed fromKentucky said that they were trying to establish
it as a crime scene and doa crime investigation, and they were told
(13:24):
to back the bleep off by thegovernor. Yeah, that he was going
to put his state police in charge. Now, why if you've looked at
this objectively for ten years leading upto this fire, there's been a major
arson in northern Kentucky every year everyyear. We were talking to a restaurant,
we were talking about this off air. I mean, what a mob
(13:46):
corrupt area this was if these fireswere not accidental. Oh no, this
is like fair to pay off,kickback money, whatever exactly threaten you,
and there's going to be consequences.The next thing, you know, the
buildings on fire of the Lookout House, all Lookout House, the White Horse,
the Pussycat Club that just goes onand on, this list of nightclubs
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and restaurants. In fact, itwas so common that there was a local
joke that they said, you canalways tell what a place is going to
burn because you'll see the owner inthere late at night, take it out
all the liquor. So here youhave this, this is dolls to crime
record where they've even found evidence ofaccelerants in these fires for ten years in
(14:31):
a row. Now, and thegovernor shows up and arrives while the fire
is still blazing. They haven't doneany investigation, and the first thing out
of his mouth almost is this wasan accident. What how on the hell
does he come to that conclusion?And then he tells the fire marshall back
the bleep off, I'm going toput the state police in charge of investigating
(14:52):
what why exactly? Because the statePolice director was corrupt connection it. Clearly
the governor was, we had thestate police department chief is corrupt at the
time, and as well as somelocal officials also. Oh yeah, it's
top to bottom and clearly this isa reflection of how much money we're talking
(15:13):
about here that they could buy offpoliticians and grease the skids and have this
covered up. Not before though,the fire marshal got in there and took
a whole bunch of photos, oneof which I think is absolutely definitively the
one that shows where this fire started, which was in the HVAC system,
Yes, in the air handling systembelow the Zebra room, below the ze
(15:35):
room. For years and years,the state police insisted there was no evidence
of a fire down there, butthey were the ones who took the pictures
and then concealed them for decades untillawsuits forced them to release those part of
the photos that they had. Andin this picture, as you described it,
there's the HVAC system with a hugepiece of ductwork that has completely blown
(15:58):
out, yeah, exploded. Thereare scorch marks all over the walls.
It's so obvious. In this firemarshal that I interviewed, or the fire
investigator at John Jay University that Iinterviewed said those scorch marks because he was,
you know, an expert at studyingthese things show intense heat, like
we're talking superheat, and that wasright below the Zebra room in the front
(16:21):
of the house and not something typicallyfound in an HVAC unit. Fire.
No. No. And then there'sthe reports of the so called repair people
working that day in that general areaand account who they were, why they
were there under what a thort?I mean, they were working on the
air conditioning and there was no airconditioning in that room. And we have
(16:42):
just on and on the evidence.What it really establishes, beyond a reasonable
doubt is that there was means,mode of an opportunity for the organized crime,
for the mob to burn the supperclub, and they had done so
in all these other clubs leading upto this. It's a pattern that I
(17:02):
think any jury, if you'd presentedthis to a courtroom, would agree,
But it was never presented. Noilluminum wiring. According to stan Chesley,
who was quoted as saying, what, there's no money in Arson, Yeah,
there's no bleeping money in Arfson backoff class act, really class act.
And of course I didn't have thosephotographs because you know, the defense
could have put those up. ForNo, this was not illuminum wiring.
(17:25):
This is exactly where the damn firestarted. Look here's a picture of it.
Yeah, in fact, and thenyou also can look at the fact
that they came in with a climbshellcrane. And the first part of the
building that they destroyed to cover upevidence was the zebra room. The zebra
room, and that was what aday after, a day after, one
day after they put the fire up, they bulldozed the building before the investigation
exactly the direction of the governor.Yes, seven twenty six will continue with
(17:48):
Peter Bronson got a lot more topicsto talk about, including maybe his work
on classic cars. Ah, maybea word or two on that, since
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com. Good time. Here's yourninth first one to weather forecast. That's
a good forecast if I can sumit up. Mostly Sunday to partly cloud
to day seventy five overnight, isolatedshowers mostly to the north, fifty three
(19:37):
a partly cloud to day, maybesome afternoon showers. They call them isolated
seventy for the high tomorrow down tofifty two, dry conditions overnight, and
a sunny day Thursday with the highestseventy three sixty three. Now time for
traffic from the UCUP Traffic Center.The University of Cincinnati Cancer Center is the
region's first and only provider for specializedprimary care services for cancer patients and survivors.
(19:57):
Called five to one three, Imean five you see see see highway
traffick in pretty good shape and thatincludes getting passed an accident on to seventy
five near Kellogg in the Median.I'm seeing no delays east or westbound.
Chuck Ingram fifty five k R Seethe talk station seven point thirty one here
(20:21):
fifty five krcit detalk station. Enjoinmy on and off air conversations with author,
among other things, Jack of AllTrade raconteur Peter Bronson in studio.
We're talking about the University of theBeverly Hill Silver Club fire. Uh and
before we, you know, movealong, perhaps other subject matters they're never
I mean, I think the saddestpart about this, other than the loss
(20:42):
of life obviously, and it wasone hundred and one hundred and sixty five
sixty five people closer to one hundredand seventy or more. Actually three of
the women were pregnant that died thereGod, and we had you had people
dying in the next few years fromlung damage from what you talked about earlier,
ongoing health problems, and suicides.There were many suicides from people who
(21:04):
had been there, who had beenunable to save somebody they loved, their
wife, for their their father ormother. The emotional and trauma that came
out of that stress, yes,I imagine, so the I mean,
the unspeakable horror of being in thereand getting out. I get that,
I really do. Uh you know, it's it's it's like talking to combat
(21:26):
veterans who lost buddies and wars,and you know, some parallels can most
assurely be drawn there. But whatreally, really really just irks me about
all of this is that no onewas ever held accountable. Yeah, that's
me. No one ever did aninvestigation on the governor and his relationship to
this and why he did what hedid was so obviously corrupt. No one
(21:47):
did an investigation to the local lawenforcement and their corruption. No one held
accountable the mobsters who were responsible forstarting this fire. Once it was just
sort of suggested that this had somethingto do with electrical wiring, which I
think was the civil case, andthat was a civil case. That was
the second that was several years later, and it was the second trial.
I think it was closer to let'ssee, that was seventy seven, it
(22:08):
was into the eighties, and thefirst trial was he Chesley lost. He
couldn't recover anything. But then heappealed to the Court of Appeals because apparently
one of the jurors had there mayhave been some misconduct because he tried to
recreate some of the things that weredescribed in court. At home when he
(22:30):
was having his deliberations, he talkedabout doing that, and so that was
the appeals court gave him a secondbite at the apple, and that's when
he finally did get the big settlement. So people kind of walked away from
that saying, oh, Okay,there you go. It's illuminu waring.
It was not illuminum waring. Yeah, the evidence is absolutely overwhelming against that.
(22:51):
Well, and it's I mean,we can judge it from hindsight though,
because at the time they didn't haveall this damning photographs and all the
information about, you know, thecorruption. Although the idea of bulldozing the
place a day after it happened,that was known about it at the time,
Well, there's so much more.Brian too. There's a memo that
the FBI had from a guy whowas on a plane, and I have
(23:12):
a copy of this in my book. He's on a plane and he's sitting
next to two other guys who weretalking about torching the Beverly Hills supper club.
They mentioned the owner by name,Dick Shilling. They mentioned having people
on the inside who are going tohelp do this, and this guy reported
this to the FBI, walked intotheir field office and told them all about
this. It's in the memo twoweeks before the fire. Is unbelievable.
(23:37):
Yes, that is an amazing pieceof evidence. And there was a note
that appeared in the Shillings mailbox thenext day after the fire, and on
that note it said, you keepbuilding, will keep burning. Anybody else
out there still think it was aluminumwiring and no accountability. Again, no
accountability. This is the problem withorganized crime. You may think you just
(24:03):
want to get your toe wet witha little bootleg booze during prohibition, and
so you invite them into your neighborhoodto supply. Like George Remas, he
had a lot all the mob.He's connected to the East Coast Mob,
the Chicago Mob. So you invitehim into your neighborhood and the next thing
you know, you've got prostitution,drugs, gambling, everything, and worst
(24:25):
of all, top to bottom corruption, police, corrupted politicians, corrupted council
members, judges, prosecutors. Theseguys were all in the pocket of the
mob. In northern Kentucky. Itwas top to bottom all the way to
the Frankfurt to the state lawmakers,the governor. It's just it is like
(24:45):
a cancer, and people don't getthat. They say, well, let's
just let's just you know, wewant our Saturday night parties. So yeah,
yeah, you guys are fun,colamorous, victimless crimes. You know,
somebody's involved in drugs or alcohol,then they're just damning themselves. You
would engage in prostitution, that's acrime of morality. And you know,
two consenting adults in exchange monetary,you know, exchange. We all get
(25:08):
it. I mean, we makea million of crimes, victimless crime,
gambling. It's these rationalizations. Yeah, but folks, when you when you
invite this into your your life,into your community, into your neighborhood,
the consequences are coming. You willpay. Yeah. Well, I mean
again to draw parallels, why doyou think the cartels are still engaged in
(25:30):
the drug trade and prostitution trade,human trafficking trade. Absolutely, it never
goes away, It never goes away. Absolutely. We got a couple more
books to talk about with Peter goingto remind folks bring them back to the
top. Coming up, It's seventhirty six here fifty five kc DE talk
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fifty five KRC and iHeartRadio station lastseason million. Here's your weather forecasts.
Not bad, got mostly Sunday skiesto partly cloudy day highest seventy five,
overnight low of fifty three with justsome isolated showers mostly to the north.
Partly cloudi on Wednesday with the isolatedafternoon showers highest seventy dry over ninth fifty
(27:26):
two and Thursday Sunday Day with thehighest seventy three sixty three. Right now,
let's hear about traffic from the UCUPTraffic Center. The University of Cincinnati
Cancer Center is the region's first andonly provider for specialized primary care services for
cancer patients and survivors. Called fiveone three, five to eighty five UCCE
see highway traffic. Not all thatbad for your Tuesday morning commute coming off
(27:48):
the holiday weekend. I'm seeing verylittle traffic northbound four to seventy one past
Grand A little bit of a slowdown westbound two seventy five at Love one
chucking on fifty five KRZ the talkstation Thick About KRCD talk station Brian Thomas
with Peter Bronson in studio before wemove on from the forbid Fruits in City's
(28:12):
underworld. The Beverly Hill Supper Clubinferno, which again the anniversaries today is
one of the reasons we had Peterin the studio. The gambling related corruption
started disappearing in northern Kentucky before theBeverly Hill Supper Club fire. We were
talking about this on the break,but that didn't end the vice in Kentucky.
(28:34):
What happened was when George Raderman hadhis famous frame up at the Tropicana
where he was supposed to be caughtin bed with April Flowers and that would
destroy his campaign as reform sheriff.Well, they found out, they did
a blood test and found out hehad been given laurel hydrate oh okay,
(28:55):
and knocked him out, and hispants had been ripped off, and he'd
been in bed with the stripper AprilFlowers real name Juanita Hodges. And the
whole story of that trial is inmy book, and it's really fascinating because
what I think I revealed maybe forthe first time. I don't know,
but was that Juanita Hodges was thereal hero of the story. She flipped
her testimony and revealed this whole frameup organized by Charles Lester, who was
(29:21):
the mob lawyer in Northern Kentucky,and Tito Corrency, and how it's all
orchestrated to take him across the riverand buy him drinks and then we're going
to slip him the mickey and thenwe're going to get his picture in bed
with the stripper and that would destroythe candidacy. As it turned out,
the whole thing backfired on the Mobspectacularly and drew the attention of the new
Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy. BobbyKennedy who declared war on organized crime in
(29:47):
Newport, Kentucky. That's where itstarted. That's where it started, the
vendetta of the feud between the Moband the Kennedys. Now you can come
up with all kinds of theories aboutwhat happened to the Kennedys, But in
this book, with the freadom ofInformation Act, I was able to find
wire tap illegal wire taps that weredone by Bobby Kennedy on the Mob,
where they're talking about killing the Kennedys, and they certainly had the means,
(30:11):
the motive, and the opportunity.So it's just a fascinating story, it
really is. So he was successfulin getting that element organized crime at they
just packed it up mood to Vegas. Yeah, the big boys modallits and
all of the Cleveland mob which Newportwas kind of an open city, so
you had Chicago mobsters in here.New York mobsters all owned a piece of
(30:32):
Newport, but they all moved toVegas where it's legal. And then erupts
this era of disorganized crime, whichreally was the porn era of the mob
which takes us conveniently over to notin our town, the Queen City versus
the King Smut, because we hada problem with a smut over here on
this side of the Ohio River,which are absolutely neat and clean here.
(30:53):
Oh yeah, and I know Silaswages a battle against Larry Flint, absolutely
and that it's a really amazing storytoo, because I figured, well,
Cincinnati had its adult playground in Newport, why would they need to have any
problem with organized crime here. Butin fact, it was a constant battle
to keep them south of the River, and they're always trying to infiltrate into
(31:15):
Cincinnati, and they were very successfulat it. We had a police corruption
that's explained and recalled by Tom Striker, our former police chief, when he
was a young rookie coming out ofthe forest. There was an incredible police
corruption. Most of the officers andin the precincts were on the take big
time. Yeah, said his precinctcommander used to go around Christmas and collect
(31:40):
all his goodies, to the pointwhere they said the front wheels of his
car were almost off the ground.We could laugh about it now, but
geez, well, we got onemore. One more segment with Peter Brown's
We'll Dive a little bit more tonot in Our Town and a word or
to at least about his most recentbook, Completely Different, Era of The
Man Who Saves Cincinnati, which isjust so awesome talking about a guy probably
(32:06):
most people hadn't heard of, andsome great great points about Cincinnati history and
the the Civil War. So morewith Peter Bronson. Real quick word though
for doctors Peck and Frew, thedynamic duo of dentistry, doctor Fred Peck
and doctor Megan Frew, and youknow doctor Fred Beck his I'll tell you
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(32:28):
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the practice like within a year.But doctor Peck and his fantastic staff there
(33:13):
treat you like family in a verycomfortable environment and the most state of the
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on the cutting edge of dentistry,all for his patient's benefit. Online Peck
peckpex smiles dot com five one threesixty two one seventy six sixty six five
one three six two one seventy sixsixty six fifty five KRC. Hey,
(33:35):
guys, Donald Trump Junior here,let me ask you this does inflation feel
worse than what we're being told inthe news. That's because the official inflation
rate doesn't tell the whole Say highseventy five overnight, maybe gets some isolated
showers, They say to the north, fifty three for the low Hartley cloudy
with isolated afternoon showers. Tomorrow,I have seventy down to fifty two with
dry conditions Tomorrow night Thursday sunny andseventy three sixty three time for traffic From
(33:57):
the ucl Tramphics Center. The Universityof sentcin A Cancer Center is the region's
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five one three five eighty five uSECC Loading up on the highways now northbound
seventy five break lights Dixie towards Kyle'sand again between Mitchell and the lateral southbound
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seventy one. I'm seeing slow trafficbetween Fifer and the Reagan Highway inbound seventy
four slows a bit from Montana intothe sun Chuck Ingram on fifty five KR
see the talk station seven fifty fiftyfive Kerr cit talk station boy and hour
goes back quickly. When you gotPeter Brownson to talk to and studio,
been a great, great conversation sofar, working our way through his books
(34:42):
and probably not going to get tospend a whole lot of time on his
most recent book, but I willstrongly recommend at Manu Save Cincinnati. But
we do need to mention not inour town the Queen City versus King of
the King of Smut, because we'vebeen talking about mob connections, given it's
the anniversary of the Beveryly Hill supperClub Fower fire. Peter outlined and it's
in glorious detail in his Forbidden Fruitbook. Get a copy the mob connection
(35:07):
with northern Kentucky, the gambling,prostitution and other crimes, as well as
leading all the way through the supperclub fire. Not in our town,
we had mob action here on thisside of the River, including, as
he reveals in the book Not inOur Town, plot to blow up the
US Supreme Court. Yeah, thatwas incredible. That was once again a
(35:28):
Freedom of Information Act request. Anddigging on the internet you can find the
most amazing things now. But sowhat happened is Larry Flint, who was
the face of the mob in Cincinnati. He started his Hustler Club with a
big loan from the Cleveland Mob.He was not a great entrepreneur. He
just borrowed money from the Mob,and they made him out to look like
this great magazine publisher, you know, all these legitimate magazines, the First
(35:53):
Amendment, defender of the First Amendment. Yes, so Larry hires this bodyguard,
and this guy himself would make anincredible book. Mitchell Warbel. He
was a spook CIA guy. Hehad traveled the world staging coups and foreign
governments, assassinating foreign leaders, andhe was weary with elections and foreign governments.
(36:15):
Peter, we never, we neverdo that. Oh No, I
mean this guy was the real deal. He would be the model for all
these movies about these soldiers of fortuneand mercenaries do these kind of He was
that guy and Larry Flint hired himas a bodyguard, and he wrote him
a one million dollar check. Andat the time, Larry Flint was in
(36:37):
his wheelchair because he'd been shot,and he had a gold plated wheelchair,
and Mitchell Warbel's job was to packthat wheelchair with plastic explosives so that Larry
Flint could roll into the US SupremeCourt, where he was involved in a
in a huge landmark case at thetime. And he was, as you
may recall, he was hurling kerkin every kind of vile language at these
(37:01):
Supreme Court justices. And he putSandra Day O'Connor on his subscription list for
Hustler, and there are copies ofher letters asking him, please do not
send this magazine to me anymore.So he's going to roll in there and
blow up the Supreme Court. Andhe was going to wear a vest that
was packed with needles. And thisis all in the FBI documents. But
(37:24):
Mitchell Warbel, who had assassinated foreignleaders, who had done just about anything
you can think of, apparently hehad one scruple and that was, I'm
not going to blow up the USSupreme Court, Okay. So he reported
it to the FBI. And thenyears later he went to a party at
Larry Flint's house and was given adrink that he says killed him. He
(37:47):
was dying in the hospital and inhis dying words he said, Larry Flint
did this to me. So LARRYFLDwas that crazy. He was that crazy,
He was that bad of a person. He was really in credit.
I thought when I started the book, I thought I had no respect for
Larry Flint. But then you getinto it and you find out the things
he did, and you're like,oh my gosh, I have an idea.
(38:10):
This the guy. He is heldout as a champion of freedom of
speech in First Amendment, and Iunderstand the reasons for that, but miserable,
miserable human being. Well, andyou know, you get back to
this, a case that Judgeph PaulaTanno and I talk about all the time
happened here Hammel and Kenny, theBrandenburg case, which you know you are
allowed to engage in speech that isawful and noxious and toxic, and you
(38:32):
have not awful, noxious and toxicpeople that really established that right that we
have because they would prosecute you forwords back then. That's how they did
to the Supreme Court. He wasout advocating for the murder of black people
because he was an evil, miserablepiece of extrement klansman. But even miserable
klansmen have the right to speak inexact cases like that. You got here
(38:52):
once upon a time, once upona time. Nowadays, if you recall,
Berkeley was the free speech battle withMario Selvo, Mario Savio, absolutely,
and they were free fighting for theright to do things like Lenny Bruce
did on stage. Yeah, rightto use all these horrible words that are
not allowed by the FCC and allthat. Nowadays, though, the campus
(39:15):
protest at Berkeley would be to silencepeople who express speech that is not vile
and profane but is political. Yep. The very reason for the First Amendment
was to protect political speech. Indeed, and yet we have kids that are
so misinformed and uneducated by their theirhigher institution, higher learning institutions, that
(39:37):
they go out and protest to tryand censor people from expressing political opinions they
disgreat with. Well. Fortunately,I think on some level, maybe it's
just being me being optimistic, thatthat pendulum seems to be swinging back the
other day. People are recognizing itand saying no, no, Moss.
We have to have a free exchangeof ideas. Fine, you can have
(39:57):
your left wing ideas, but atleast have to entertain and discuss and debate
without silencing the speech. The alternativepoints of view that exist, and there
are many. Peter Bronson, getcopies of his books. They're all fantastic
reads. Man of Staves, Cincinnati, We didn't get to his most recent
book. People are buying the heckout of it. Obviously people love it
too, as indicated by the multiplefive star reviews you got there. Forbidden
(40:21):
Fruit dominant discussion point this morning,given it's the anniversary of Beverly Hill Supper
Club fire. Just read for yourselfhow it's connected directly with mob activity and
not in our town Queen City versusThe King of Smut Larry Flint, also
mob connected and just amazing reads.Peter, keep up the great work.
I look forward to your next book, and I look forward to talking with
you again on the Morning show.Hey. I always enjoy being here with
(40:42):
you, Brian. It's been agood time, my pleasure distinctly seven to
fifty six. Stick around. Itis Tuesday, which means we're doing the
bright part Insights Scoop. Today,John Carney returns to the program. He's
the news of an Answer Director.Yes, Biden, inflation is gripping the
nation. We'll talk about the realityis that plus Jennifer gross State Representative gross
On will buy be on the ballothere in Ohio. Problem the Democrats making
plus or ask the expert at afifty plump tight, don't go away.
(41:07):
You're just minutes away from refreshing yournews feed at the top of the hour.
I have never seen anything like this. Exclusively fifty five KRCD talkstation.
This report is sponsored by Progressive and
Seven oh six here at Picky aboutkrc DE talk station and a very happy
Tuesday. He made that much happierwith the appearance in studio for a full
hour Peter Bronson. Everybody knows Peter, but to the extent you don't.
He's been a newsman in Michigan andArizona, Ohio. Award winning editor and
columnist for a two Suns, Citizenand of course the Cincinnati Inquirer. Grew
up in Michigan, graduated from MichiganState University. Bus boy, bartender,
(00:37):
car valet, pizza chef, constructionlaborer, snowplow driver. He's done it
all and he's been a host andproducer of on weekly TV news shows.
Servis a volunteer and a board memberfor nonprofits that aid neglected and abuse children.
And he is a lover of books, has been since he was a
kid. Broken television, well,he ended up in the library where people
learn things and learn the love ofreading. So after his career newspapers,
(01:00):
he became a publisher and editor anda ghostwriter with his company. And you
can find him online go to chilidogpress dot com, where he's published dozens
of titles, including his own works, which we're going to be talking about
today. Peter Bronson, it isawesome to see you again. Thanks for
coming to the studio talk today.Always good to be with you, Brian.
We always have a good time together, we do, and I just
love your books. Of course we'regoing to be speaking about them. And
(01:23):
the topic today brought about because itis the anniversary and a sad day.
It was Beverly Hills Supper Club fireburned at the ground on this date back
in nineteen seventy seven. Yes,and I was eleven going on twelve at
the time, and I remember watchingthe news reports while it was happening.
I had mentioned earlier in the programand I have in the past. And
my teacher at the time was ahuge John Davidson fan, and she was
(01:44):
talking and I can't remember if shewas talking about the day before or the
week up to it, that oh, gosh, we really wish we could
go because we love John Davidson.He's going to be in town, or
it was afterwards we were planning ongoing but weren't able to make it.
But in any event, she fortunatelywas not there. My parents used to
love going to the Beverly Hill supperclub. Yeah, it was just the
destination place. I mean, itwas nationally known for the acts that came
(02:07):
through there. The shows were fantastic. Supper clubs as a concept kind of
gone the way of the Dodo,haven't they. Yeah, they kind of
have. You don't see that muchanymore because I think the concerts became a
standalone venue when you could draw somany more people. But I mean they
would draw hundreds and even thousands ofpeople for somebody's act over the you know,
(02:30):
the course of the run of theshow. And John Davidson funny about
him because he was on Hollywood Squaresas you probably remember what Center Square,
right, and he was The wayI put it in the book is Everybody's
Mom loved John Davidson. Yeah,it's actually a perfect way of putting it.
(02:50):
Yeah, he was just the cleancut guy with longish hair and everything.
And he was a catalog model beforethat. But he had his own
show for a while. But hewas a big deal and they packed him
in, Oh my gosh, didthey pack him. And they oversold that
place with so many extra people.The overcrowding was ridiculous well, and of
course obviously led to the increased lossof life there. Yes, that was
(03:15):
kind of the norm for the BeverlyHill Supper Club, right. They didn't
care about the rules, No,they didn't. And in fact, when
Dick Shilling, the owner, wantedto expand, he would just kind of
treat the architectural plans and the firecodes as a suggestion that he could ignore.
So he would go ahead and closeoff exits to add a room next
door, which he did in thecabaret room. Because they added the garden
(03:36):
room which looked out the back,but that eliminated all the exits on what
would be the left side of theclub as you entered the door, so
there were very few exits. Theywere very poorly marked. It's not true
the local mythology about the doors beingpad locked, not true. But there
were ridiculously poor management of the crowd. They would stack up bars, portable
(04:02):
bars, and furniture right in frontof an exit, so when these people
were trying to get out of there, they didn't know where to go,
and when they did find that,it's an excit there are all this stuff
in the way. The doors wereset up so that one open outward and
one open inward, so as soonas this crush of people gets up against
that left side door that opens inward, there's no way there, there no
(04:23):
way. They stacked up in thedoorways until they were laying on top of
each other. A lot of thepeople that I heard this several times described
it like stacks of wood. Theyjust couldn't be pulled out. The people
on the bottom were still alive,and they couldn't be pulled out. There
just compressed by the weight of theothers. And I hate to draw parallels,
(04:45):
but you know, parallels can bedrawn with the Who concert. He
was so packed, people were socrushed in together. If you somehow lost
your footing and ended beneath that crowd, that's how people lost their lives.
Absolutely, you just couldn't get up. I had a guy he was at
the concert, a childhood friend ofmine, and he said, you could
lift your legs up off the groundand the people around you would keep you
(05:10):
from falling. I mean it wasthat tightly pull my certain you were just
so pushed in there. And thenyou compound that with the doors and everything.
But yeah, this and the otherelement of this is and it can't
be overstated the smoke. Oh yes, you know if you don't have a
clearly illuminated exit that you can easilyget to once the smoke fills the room,
(05:30):
I mean, you're going to suffocateif you don't keep your head down
and you got to know where you'regoing, you know, Beverly Hill supper
Club. I'd make a conscious effortevery place I go. Now, where's
the fire exit? Yeah, where'sthe fire egg? Well, I heard
that a lot from people I interviewed. This was life changing for them that
once they realized how easy it isto be trapped in a place. Yeah,
and you mentioned the smoke. Itwasn't just smoke either, because once
(05:53):
again Shilling didn't pay any attention towhat would be safe in a place like
that, So he had a lotof materials that you know, the Beverly
Hills supper Club fire, on thepositive side, changed a lot of laws
and regulations about what you can usein a public place. But back then
he was using all kinds of plasticsand synthetics that were extremely toxic. So
(06:15):
that smoke, when it rolled intothe room in a big black cloud,
that's what killed a lot of people. They were stories about people walking out
of that place that night. Theylooked like they were just fine, and
they would drop dead a few minuteslater because the byproducts of combustion and that
smoke were so toxic and deadly.It was like poison. Oh my,
(06:35):
And you wrote about this and yourconnection to this in an amazing, amazing
book Forbidden Fruit, Sin, CitiesUnderworld and the Supper Club Inferno Since any
History Queen City of the West,and this was one of those books they
just couldn't put down because so manythings just truly unique to Cincinnati. But
(06:58):
we were literally on the map becauseof Northern Kentucky and the gambling business that
went on there. Oh yeah,this was Vegas before it was Vegas,
exactly modall. It's the big Clevelandcrime boss who ran that empire of organized
crime in northern Kentucky for forty years, he said, when he went out
and did the same thing in Vegas, and it's became known as the godfather
(07:21):
of Vegas in a good way.He was the philanthropist. He was their
hero, even though he was agrimy little mobster from Detroit. But this
guy said everything I needed to knowto establish the desert in Las Vegas.
I learned at the Beverly Hills CountryClub in Cincinnati supper club supper Well,
(07:43):
it was a country before, isthat what they called it? Yeah,
for a long time it was calledthe Beverly Hills Country Club, and then
right after the nineteen forties, Ithink they changed over and it became Beverly
Hills Supper Club. I guess youanswer this and you talk about it at
length, and I'm recommend I thinkmy listeners read Forbidden Fruit, how Cincinnati
became Northern Kentucky ation more properly state. Cincinnati was all crystal clean. They
(08:09):
loved and everything that they all thevices were across the river. They could
claim this healthy. Oh yeah,yeah, But if you wanted to have
fun, he just walked across thebridge or drove across the bridge. Is
the case you have a good time? Yes? Uh. But that Northern
Kentucky could have become so huge interms of gambling, why not fill in
(08:31):
the blank some other city or someother locale. I think that goes back
to what my research showed is itgoes back to George Remis, and Remis
was the bootleg king, but notjust in Cincinnati. We think of that,
oh yeah, his king of bootleggers. Around here. No, he
was nationally known as the King ofBootleggers. He was a very bright guy,
and he cornered the market on allthis liquor that was sitting in warehouses
(08:52):
that he could get permits for tosell for quote unquote medicinal purposes, right,
And so that established him. Andthen he began to say, well,
look, when this runs out,I'm going to need another supply.
So he started his own bootlegging operation, and the biggest one for his distribution
network was in northern Kentucky. Andso the reason for that is that it
(09:13):
was so much easier to bribe everybodyyou needed in northern Kentucky than to do
it in Cincinnati. It's just lessexpensive, which speaks volumes to the aftermath
of the Beverly Hills supper Club Inferno, which was just revealed so much corruption,
unbelievable, which we will continue talkingabout with Peter Bronson. Get a
copy for Biden brut Sin Cities Underworldof the Supper Club Inferno. Will also
(09:35):
be talking about Not in Our Town, the Queen City's King of Queen City
versus the King of Smut, anda few words on his most recent book,
which is fantastic, the man whosaves Cincinnati. Peter Bronson here in
studio. So I'm fifteen right now. If you have ker City Talk station,
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(10:24):
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(10:48):
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Affordable Medimaging dot com five one threeseven, five three eight thousand,
fifty five KRC dot com. Needtime of the nine first forty one forecasts
(11:13):
then not bad, mostly sunny dayto day, partly cloudy, uh at
to partly cloudy, some range inthere. Seventy five is going to be
the highest, isolated showers every nightmostly to the north. Fifty three for
the low, a partly cloudy datTomorrow with isolated afternoon showers high of seventy
dry and partly cloudy Tomorrow night fiftytwo for the low, and a sunny
Thursday with the highest seventy three sixtytwo. Right now, Time for traffic
(11:33):
update from the UCUF Traffic Center.The University of Cincinnati Cancer Center is the
region's first and only provider specialized primarycare services for cancer patients and survivors.
Call five one three five feet fiveuc C see getting reports of an accident
on two seventy five near Kellogg.They're in the median two in the media
(11:54):
and at the moment the police areon their way. Traffic elsewhere do we
find no major? Time to Lakesnorthbound forth seventy one on the bridge.
Got Chuck Ingramo on fifty five krsthe talk station shy seven twenty one per
fifty five KRSD talk station in studiothe incomparable. Peter Bronson chilidog Press dot
(12:16):
com is where you find his publishingcompany and the books that he's published,
including his own. I'm gonna stronglyrecommend it. Joe's going to put it
on the blog page fifty five KRCdot com, along with a link to
Peter's other books, Forbidden Fruits,in Cities Underworld and The supper Club Inferno.
It is the anniversary May twenty eight, nineteen seventy seven, is when
the Beverly Hills supper Club burned down. Described by some and the authors of
the Beverly Hill Supper Club, theUntold Story of Kentucky's Worst Tragedy, which
(12:39):
has the photographs in it that shouldhave been presented to the world but were
covered up. They called it oneof the worst cases of mass murder in
US history. And you agree withthat with that conclusion people, Yes,
that actually came from a fire marshalwho at John Jay University, who studied
this exhaustively. For my research,I was able to depend and rely on
(13:01):
a lot of people who had studiedthis and investigated it because it was such
a huge tragedy and crime. Sowhat happened that night the governor arrived in
the fire marshal that I interviewed fromKentucky said that they were trying to establish
it as a crime scene and doa crime investigation, and they were told
(13:24):
to back the bleep off by thegovernor. Yeah, that he was going
to put his state police in charge. Now, why if you've looked at
this objectively for ten years leading upto this fire, there's been a major
arson in northern Kentucky every year everyyear. We were talking to a restaurant,
we were talking about this off air. I mean, what a mob
(13:46):
corrupt area this was if these fireswere not accidental. Oh no, this
is like fair to pay off,kickback money, whatever exactly threaten you,
and there's going to be consequences.The next thing, you know, the
buildings on fire of the Lookout House, all Lookout House, the White Horse,
the Pussycat Club that just goes onand on, this list of nightclubs
(14:09):
and restaurants. In fact, itwas so common that there was a local
joke that they said, you canalways tell what a place is going to
burn because you'll see the owner inthere late at night, take it out
all the liquor. So here youhave this, this is dolls to crime
record where they've even found evidence ofaccelerants in these fires for ten years in
(14:31):
a row. Now, and thegovernor shows up and arrives while the fire
is still blazing. They haven't doneany investigation, and the first thing out
of his mouth almost is this wasan accident. What how on the hell
does he come to that conclusion?And then he tells the fire marshall back
the bleep off, I'm going toput the state police in charge of investigating
(14:52):
what why exactly? Because the statePolice director was corrupt connection it. Clearly
the governor was, we had thestate police department chief is corrupt at the
time, and as well as somelocal officials also. Oh yeah, it's
top to bottom and clearly this isa reflection of how much money we're talking
(15:13):
about here that they could buy offpoliticians and grease the skids and have this
covered up. Not before though,the fire marshal got in there and took
a whole bunch of photos, oneof which I think is absolutely definitively the
one that shows where this fire started, which was in the HVAC system,
Yes, in the air handling systembelow the Zebra room, below the ze
(15:35):
room. For years and years,the state police insisted there was no evidence
of a fire down there, butthey were the ones who took the pictures
and then concealed them for decades untillawsuits forced them to release those part of
the photos that they had. Andin this picture, as you described it,
there's the HVAC system with a hugepiece of ductwork that has completely blown
(15:58):
out, yeah, exploded. Thereare scorch marks all over the walls.
It's so obvious. In this firemarshal that I interviewed, or the fire
investigator at John Jay University that Iinterviewed said those scorch marks because he was,
you know, an expert at studyingthese things show intense heat, like
we're talking superheat, and that wasright below the Zebra room in the front
(16:21):
of the house and not something typicallyfound in an HVAC unit. Fire.
No. No. And then there'sthe reports of the so called repair people
working that day in that general areaand account who they were, why they
were there under what a thort?I mean, they were working on the
air conditioning and there was no airconditioning in that room. And we have
(16:42):
just on and on the evidence.What it really establishes, beyond a reasonable
doubt is that there was means,mode of an opportunity for the organized crime,
for the mob to burn the supperclub, and they had done so
in all these other clubs leading upto this. It's a pattern that I
(17:02):
think any jury, if you'd presentedthis to a courtroom, would agree,
But it was never presented. Noilluminum wiring. According to stan Chesley,
who was quoted as saying, what, there's no money in Arson, Yeah,
there's no bleeping money in Arfson backoff class act, really class act.
And of course I didn't have thosephotographs because you know, the defense
could have put those up. ForNo, this was not illuminum wiring.
(17:25):
This is exactly where the damn firestarted. Look here's a picture of it.
Yeah, in fact, and thenyou also can look at the fact
that they came in with a climbshellcrane. And the first part of the
building that they destroyed to cover upevidence was the zebra room. The zebra
room, and that was what aday after, a day after, one
day after they put the fire up, they bulldozed the building before the investigation
exactly the direction of the governor.Yes, seven twenty six will continue with
(17:48):
Peter Bronson got a lot more topicsto talk about, including maybe his work
on classic cars. Ah, maybea word or two on that, since
I'm a car guy as well.It is seven twenty six times from to
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a good forecast if I can sumit up. Mostly Sunday to partly cloud
to day seventy five overnight, isolatedshowers mostly to the north, fifty three
(19:37):
a partly cloud to day, maybesome afternoon showers. They call them isolated
seventy for the high tomorrow down tofifty two, dry conditions overnight, and
a sunny day Thursday with the highestseventy three sixty three. Now time for
traffic from the UCUP Traffic Center.The University of Cincinnati Cancer Center is the
region's first and only provider for specializedprimary care services for cancer patients and survivors.
(19:57):
Called five to one three, Imean five you see see see highway
traffick in pretty good shape and thatincludes getting passed an accident on to seventy
five near Kellogg in the Median.I'm seeing no delays east or westbound.
Chuck Ingram fifty five k R Seethe talk station seven point thirty one here
(20:21):
fifty five krcit detalk station. Enjoinmy on and off air conversations with author,
among other things, Jack of AllTrade raconteur Peter Bronson in studio.
We're talking about the University of theBeverly Hill Silver Club fire. Uh and
before we, you know, movealong, perhaps other subject matters they're never
I mean, I think the saddestpart about this, other than the loss
(20:42):
of life obviously, and it wasone hundred and one hundred and sixty five
sixty five people closer to one hundredand seventy or more. Actually three of
the women were pregnant that died thereGod, and we had you had people
dying in the next few years fromlung damage from what you talked about earlier,
ongoing health problems, and suicides.There were many suicides from people who
(21:04):
had been there, who had beenunable to save somebody they loved, their
wife, for their their father ormother. The emotional and trauma that came
out of that stress, yes,I imagine, so the I mean,
the unspeakable horror of being in thereand getting out. I get that,
I really do. Uh you know, it's it's it's like talking to combat
(21:26):
veterans who lost buddies and wars,and you know, some parallels can most
assurely be drawn there. But whatreally, really really just irks me about
all of this is that no onewas ever held accountable. Yeah, that's
me. No one ever did aninvestigation on the governor and his relationship to
this and why he did what hedid was so obviously corrupt. No one
(21:47):
did an investigation to the local lawenforcement and their corruption. No one held
accountable the mobsters who were responsible forstarting this fire. Once it was just
sort of suggested that this had somethingto do with electrical wiring, which I
think was the civil case, andthat was a civil case. That was
the second that was several years later, and it was the second trial.
I think it was closer to let'ssee, that was seventy seven, it
(22:08):
was into the eighties, and thefirst trial was he Chesley lost. He
couldn't recover anything. But then heappealed to the Court of Appeals because apparently
one of the jurors had there mayhave been some misconduct because he tried to
recreate some of the things that weredescribed in court. At home when he
(22:30):
was having his deliberations, he talkedabout doing that, and so that was
the appeals court gave him a secondbite at the apple, and that's when
he finally did get the big settlement. So people kind of walked away from
that saying, oh, Okay,there you go. It's illuminu waring.
It was not illuminum waring. Yeah, the evidence is absolutely overwhelming against that.
(22:51):
Well, and it's I mean,we can judge it from hindsight though,
because at the time they didn't haveall this damning photographs and all the
information about, you know, thecorruption. Although the idea of bulldozing the
place a day after it happened,that was known about it at the time,
Well, there's so much more.Brian too. There's a memo that
the FBI had from a guy whowas on a plane, and I have
(23:12):
a copy of this in my book. He's on a plane and he's sitting
next to two other guys who weretalking about torching the Beverly Hills supper club.
They mentioned the owner by name,Dick Shilling. They mentioned having people
on the inside who are going tohelp do this, and this guy reported
this to the FBI, walked intotheir field office and told them all about
this. It's in the memo twoweeks before the fire. Is unbelievable.
(23:37):
Yes, that is an amazing pieceof evidence. And there was a note
that appeared in the Shillings mailbox thenext day after the fire, and on
that note it said, you keepbuilding, will keep burning. Anybody else
out there still think it was aluminumwiring and no accountability. Again, no
accountability. This is the problem withorganized crime. You may think you just
(24:03):
want to get your toe wet witha little bootleg booze during prohibition, and
so you invite them into your neighborhoodto supply. Like George Remas, he
had a lot all the mob.He's connected to the East Coast Mob,
the Chicago Mob. So you invitehim into your neighborhood and the next thing
you know, you've got prostitution,drugs, gambling, everything, and worst
(24:25):
of all, top to bottom corruption, police, corrupted politicians, corrupted council
members, judges, prosecutors. Theseguys were all in the pocket of the
mob. In northern Kentucky. Itwas top to bottom all the way to
the Frankfurt to the state lawmakers,the governor. It's just it is like
(24:45):
a cancer, and people don't getthat. They say, well, let's
just let's just you know, wewant our Saturday night parties. So yeah,
yeah, you guys are fun,colamorous, victimless crimes. You know,
somebody's involved in drugs or alcohol,then they're just damning themselves. You
would engage in prostitution, that's acrime of morality. And you know,
two consenting adults in exchange monetary,you know, exchange. We all get
(25:08):
it. I mean, we makea million of crimes, victimless crime,
gambling. It's these rationalizations. Yeah, but folks, when you when you
invite this into your your life,into your community, into your neighborhood,
the consequences are coming. You willpay. Yeah. Well, I mean
again to draw parallels, why doyou think the cartels are still engaged in
(25:30):
the drug trade and prostitution trade,human trafficking trade. Absolutely, it never
goes away, It never goes away. Absolutely. We got a couple more
books to talk about with Peter goingto remind folks bring them back to the
top. Coming up, It's seventhirty six here fifty five kc DE talk
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(27:06):
fifty five KRC and iHeartRadio station lastseason million. Here's your weather forecasts.
Not bad, got mostly Sunday skiesto partly cloudy day highest seventy five,
overnight low of fifty three with justsome isolated showers mostly to the north.
Partly cloudi on Wednesday with the isolatedafternoon showers highest seventy dry over ninth fifty
(27:26):
two and Thursday Sunday Day with thehighest seventy three sixty three. Right now,
let's hear about traffic from the UCUPTraffic Center. The University of Cincinnati
Cancer Center is the region's first andonly provider for specialized primary care services for
cancer patients and survivors. Called fiveone three, five to eighty five UCCE
see highway traffic. Not all thatbad for your Tuesday morning commute coming off
(27:48):
the holiday weekend. I'm seeing verylittle traffic northbound four to seventy one past
Grand A little bit of a slowdown westbound two seventy five at Love one
chucking on fifty five KRZ the talkstation Thick About KRCD talk station Brian Thomas
with Peter Bronson in studio before wemove on from the forbid Fruits in City's
(28:12):
underworld. The Beverly Hill Supper Clubinferno, which again the anniversaries today is
one of the reasons we had Peterin the studio. The gambling related corruption
started disappearing in northern Kentucky before theBeverly Hill Supper Club fire. We were
talking about this on the break,but that didn't end the vice in Kentucky.
(28:34):
What happened was when George Raderman hadhis famous frame up at the Tropicana
where he was supposed to be caughtin bed with April Flowers and that would
destroy his campaign as reform sheriff.Well, they found out, they did
a blood test and found out hehad been given laurel hydrate oh okay,
(28:55):
and knocked him out, and hispants had been ripped off, and he'd
been in bed with the stripper AprilFlowers real name Juanita Hodges. And the
whole story of that trial is inmy book, and it's really fascinating because
what I think I revealed maybe forthe first time. I don't know,
but was that Juanita Hodges was thereal hero of the story. She flipped
her testimony and revealed this whole frameup organized by Charles Lester, who was
(29:21):
the mob lawyer in Northern Kentucky,and Tito Corrency, and how it's all
orchestrated to take him across the riverand buy him drinks and then we're going
to slip him the mickey and thenwe're going to get his picture in bed
with the stripper and that would destroythe candidacy. As it turned out,
the whole thing backfired on the Mobspectacularly and drew the attention of the new
Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy. BobbyKennedy who declared war on organized crime in
(29:47):
Newport, Kentucky. That's where itstarted. That's where it started, the
vendetta of the feud between the Moband the Kennedys. Now you can come
up with all kinds of theories aboutwhat happened to the Kennedys, But in
this book, with the freadom ofInformation Act, I was able to find
wire tap illegal wire taps that weredone by Bobby Kennedy on the Mob,
where they're talking about killing the Kennedys, and they certainly had the means,
(30:11):
the motive, and the opportunity.So it's just a fascinating story, it
really is. So he was successfulin getting that element organized crime at they
just packed it up mood to Vegas. Yeah, the big boys modallits and
all of the Cleveland mob which Newportwas kind of an open city, so
you had Chicago mobsters in here.New York mobsters all owned a piece of
(30:32):
Newport, but they all moved toVegas where it's legal. And then erupts
this era of disorganized crime, whichreally was the porn era of the mob
which takes us conveniently over to notin our town, the Queen City versus
the King Smut, because we hada problem with a smut over here on
this side of the Ohio River,which are absolutely neat and clean here.
(30:53):
Oh yeah, and I know Silaswages a battle against Larry Flint, absolutely
and that it's a really amazing storytoo, because I figured, well,
Cincinnati had its adult playground in Newport, why would they need to have any
problem with organized crime here. Butin fact, it was a constant battle
to keep them south of the River, and they're always trying to infiltrate into
(31:15):
Cincinnati, and they were very successfulat it. We had a police corruption
that's explained and recalled by Tom Striker, our former police chief, when he
was a young rookie coming out ofthe forest. There was an incredible police
corruption. Most of the officers andin the precincts were on the take big
time. Yeah, said his precinctcommander used to go around Christmas and collect
(31:40):
all his goodies, to the pointwhere they said the front wheels of his
car were almost off the ground.We could laugh about it now, but
geez, well, we got onemore. One more segment with Peter Brown's
We'll Dive a little bit more tonot in Our Town and a word or
to at least about his most recentbook, Completely Different, Era of The
Man Who Saves Cincinnati, which isjust so awesome talking about a guy probably
(32:06):
most people hadn't heard of, andsome great great points about Cincinnati history and
the the Civil War. So morewith Peter Bronson. Real quick word though
for doctors Peck and Frew, thedynamic duo of dentistry, doctor Fred Peck
and doctor Megan Frew, and youknow doctor Fred Beck his I'll tell you
his cred is known nationwide. Heis a Fellow with the American Academy at
(32:28):
Cosmonic Dentistry. That is a loftystatus. You don't reach that easily,
and he is demonstrably probably I meanI say this with some bit of bias,
but probably one of the best cosmeticdentists around ever beautiful transformative smile makeovers.
He's been at this for a coupleof decades. And doctor Frew on
her way to accreditation with the AmericanAcademy and Cosmetic Dentistry, merging years of
(32:50):
experience with her fresh perspectives on thelatest techniques to craft that stunning smile makeover,
and that will be life transformative.If you are unhappy, you know,
if you let your smile body youtalk to doctors Beck and Frew,
problems solved and for general dynastry,you can't find a better practice. They've
been my general dentist now for along time now. Doctor Freu recently joined
the practice like within a year.But doctor Peck and his fantastic staff there
(33:13):
treat you like family in a verycomfortable environment and the most state of the
art clinic. You're going to bein doctor Peck has always insisted on being
on the cutting edge of dentistry,all for his patient's benefit. Online Peck
peckpex smiles dot com five one threesixty two one seventy six sixty six five
one three six two one seventy sixsixty six fifty five KRC. Hey,
(33:35):
guys, Donald Trump Junior here,let me ask you this does inflation feel
worse than what we're being told inthe news. That's because the official inflation
rate doesn't tell the whole Say highseventy five overnight, maybe gets some isolated
showers, They say to the north, fifty three for the low Hartley cloudy
with isolated afternoon showers. Tomorrow,I have seventy down to fifty two with
dry conditions Tomorrow night Thursday sunny andseventy three sixty three time for traffic From
(33:57):
the ucl Tramphics Center. The Universityof sentcin A Cancer Center is the region's
first and only provider of specialized primarycare services for cancer patient sands survivors called
five one three five eighty five uSECC Loading up on the highways now northbound
seventy five break lights Dixie towards Kyle'sand again between Mitchell and the lateral southbound
(34:19):
seventy one. I'm seeing slow trafficbetween Fifer and the Reagan Highway inbound seventy
four slows a bit from Montana intothe sun Chuck Ingram on fifty five KR
see the talk station seven fifty fiftyfive Kerr cit talk station boy and hour
goes back quickly. When you gotPeter Brownson to talk to and studio,
been a great, great conversation sofar, working our way through his books
(34:42):
and probably not going to get tospend a whole lot of time on his
most recent book, but I willstrongly recommend at Manu Save Cincinnati. But
we do need to mention not inour town the Queen City versus King of
the King of Smut, because we'vebeen talking about mob connections, given it's
the anniversary of the Beveryly Hill supperClub Fower fire. Peter outlined and it's
in glorious detail in his Forbidden Fruitbook. Get a copy the mob connection
(35:07):
with northern Kentucky, the gambling,prostitution and other crimes, as well as
leading all the way through the supperclub fire. Not in our town,
we had mob action here on thisside of the River, including, as
he reveals in the book Not inOur Town, plot to blow up the
US Supreme Court. Yeah, thatwas incredible. That was once again a
(35:28):
Freedom of Information Act request. Anddigging on the internet you can find the
most amazing things now. But sowhat happened is Larry Flint, who was
the face of the mob in Cincinnati. He started his Hustler Club with a
big loan from the Cleveland Mob.He was not a great entrepreneur. He
just borrowed money from the Mob,and they made him out to look like
this great magazine publisher, you know, all these legitimate magazines, the First
(35:53):
Amendment, defender of the First Amendment. Yes, so Larry hires this bodyguard,
and this guy himself would make anincredible book. Mitchell Warbel. He
was a spook CIA guy. Hehad traveled the world staging coups and foreign
governments, assassinating foreign leaders, andhe was weary with elections and foreign governments.
(36:15):
Peter, we never, we neverdo that. Oh No, I
mean this guy was the real deal. He would be the model for all
these movies about these soldiers of fortuneand mercenaries do these kind of He was
that guy and Larry Flint hired himas a bodyguard, and he wrote him
a one million dollar check. Andat the time, Larry Flint was in
(36:37):
his wheelchair because he'd been shot,and he had a gold plated wheelchair,
and Mitchell Warbel's job was to packthat wheelchair with plastic explosives so that Larry
Flint could roll into the US SupremeCourt, where he was involved in a
in a huge landmark case at thetime. And he was, as you
may recall, he was hurling kerkin every kind of vile language at these
(37:01):
Supreme Court justices. And he putSandra Day O'Connor on his subscription list for
Hustler, and there are copies ofher letters asking him, please do not
send this magazine to me anymore.So he's going to roll in there and
blow up the Supreme Court. Andhe was going to wear a vest that
was packed with needles. And thisis all in the FBI documents. But
(37:24):
Mitchell Warbel, who had assassinated foreignleaders, who had done just about anything
you can think of, apparently hehad one scruple and that was, I'm
not going to blow up the USSupreme Court, Okay. So he reported
it to the FBI. And thenyears later he went to a party at
Larry Flint's house and was given adrink that he says killed him. He
(37:47):
was dying in the hospital and inhis dying words he said, Larry Flint
did this to me. So LARRYFLDwas that crazy. He was that crazy,
He was that bad of a person. He was really in credit.
I thought when I started the book, I thought I had no respect for
Larry Flint. But then you getinto it and you find out the things
he did, and you're like,oh my gosh, I have an idea.
(38:10):
This the guy. He is heldout as a champion of freedom of
speech in First Amendment, and Iunderstand the reasons for that, but miserable,
miserable human being. Well, andyou know, you get back to
this, a case that Judgeph PaulaTanno and I talk about all the time
happened here Hammel and Kenny, theBrandenburg case, which you know you are
allowed to engage in speech that isawful and noxious and toxic, and you
(38:32):
have not awful, noxious and toxicpeople that really established that right that we
have because they would prosecute you forwords back then. That's how they did
to the Supreme Court. He wasout advocating for the murder of black people
because he was an evil, miserablepiece of extrement klansman. But even miserable
klansmen have the right to speak inexact cases like that. You got here
(38:52):
once upon a time, once upona time. Nowadays, if you recall,
Berkeley was the free speech battle withMario Selvo, Mario Savio, absolutely,
and they were free fighting for theright to do things like Lenny Bruce
did on stage. Yeah, rightto use all these horrible words that are
not allowed by the FCC and allthat. Nowadays, though, the campus
(39:15):
protest at Berkeley would be to silencepeople who express speech that is not vile
and profane but is political. Yep. The very reason for the First Amendment
was to protect political speech. Indeed, and yet we have kids that are
so misinformed and uneducated by their theirhigher institution, higher learning institutions, that
(39:37):
they go out and protest to tryand censor people from expressing political opinions they
disgreat with. Well. Fortunately,I think on some level, maybe it's
just being me being optimistic, thatthat pendulum seems to be swinging back the
other day. People are recognizing itand saying no, no, Moss.
We have to have a free exchangeof ideas. Fine, you can have
(39:57):
your left wing ideas, but atleast have to entertain and discuss and debate
without silencing the speech. The alternativepoints of view that exist, and there
are many. Peter Bronson, getcopies of his books. They're all fantastic
reads. Man of Staves, Cincinnati, We didn't get to his most recent
book. People are buying the heckout of it. Obviously people love it
too, as indicated by the multiplefive star reviews you got there. Forbidden
(40:21):
Fruit dominant discussion point this morning,given it's the anniversary of Beverly Hill Supper
Club fire. Just read for yourselfhow it's connected directly with mob activity and
not in our town Queen City versusThe King of Smut Larry Flint, also
mob connected and just amazing reads.Peter, keep up the great work.
I look forward to your next book, and I look forward to talking with
you again on the Morning show.Hey. I always enjoy being here with
(40:42):
you, Brian. It's been agood time, my pleasure distinctly seven to
fifty six. Stick around. Itis Tuesday, which means we're doing the
bright part Insights Scoop. Today,John Carney returns to the program. He's
the news of an Answer Director.Yes, Biden, inflation is gripping the
nation. We'll talk about the realityis that plus Jennifer gross State Representative gross
On will buy be on the ballothere in Ohio. Problem the Democrats making
plus or ask the expert at afifty plump tight, don't go away.
(41:07):
You're just minutes away from refreshing yournews feed at the top of the hour.
I have never seen anything like this. Exclusively fifty five KRCD talkstation.
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