Peter Bronson - Forbidden Fruit - Sin City's Underworld and the Supper Club Inferno

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Seven six Syriph about KROCG talk Station a very special Tuesday,
the Return and in studio which I dearly love. I
love talking to Peter Bronson. Y. I think everybody in
the audience knows Peter Bronson, long time with The Inquirer
and famous aunor author and publisher. Chilidogpress dot com is
where you find Peter. If you're interested in having your

(00:35):
book published, you might want to consult with Peter. I
know he has published quite a few books, and he
has written some absolutely amazing books. Props for his writing
style and how interesting the books are. The Man to
Save Cincinnati. We've had him on for that one. Behind
the Lines, the Untold Story of the Riots, the Cincinnati
Riots exactly a great chapter in the City of Cincinnati's world.

(00:59):
But the book we're going to talk about today a
little bit o the Manucape Cincinnati, History of Queen City,
the Queen City of the West. That was fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Peter.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
You revealed some really wild stuff about how absolutely I guess,
completely lawless the area was before things got settled down,
and I thought the most this was weird.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Thing.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Interesting thing is it was a lot safer over in
Kentucky than it wasn't Cincinnati couldn't hand you back in.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Man as a surprise. Hey, thank you for the kind introduction.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Brian.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
It's a pleasure to be with you well.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
And the one we're going to focus on today, I
don't know if I have to put him in order
of favorites.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
I think it is my favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Forbidden Fruit, Sin Cities, Underworld and the supper Club Inferno,
and you trace the whole Newport, Kentucky, Northern Kentucky area
from its its mob heyday all the way through the
burning down of the the Beverly Hill Supper Club, which
anniversary forty eighth anniversary tomorrow. And I know when you're
coming in. You heard my friend doctor Jay called us.

(02:02):
He was the floor manager, a twenty year old kid,
and he's the one that got the folks out of
that living room right when are the main dining room,
right when the smoke started coming.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
There are so many stories like that, Brian.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Now that I've been out kind of on the tour
of speaking, I always talk about the Beverly Hill Supper
Club when I do speaking events. And when I asked
the people in the crowd how many of you were there?
That night, or know somebody who was there. You'd be
amazed how many hands go up. This is something that's
still all these years later, forty eight years later. Yeah,

(02:34):
Lingers and people. It's like for people in Cincinnati. I
always say, that's kind of equivalent to how all of
us felt when JFK was killed. We know right where
we were and what was going on. Well, for people
in Cincinnati when the supper club burned, they can tell
you exactly what they were doing, how they saw the
lights in the sky and all the fire engines going
there from everywhere. It was like the hugest calamity in

(02:59):
Cincinnati that anybody knows.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Bomb.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, I could not possibly disagree with you, because you know,
I remember where I was. It was a home watching
on television where he had the live reporting there. Yeah,
and I mean yeah, yeah, he remember who.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
He got to jump on it because he was the
only one who had the mobile unit the van.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
They had just debuted their van that week.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
How about that.

Speaker 4 (03:23):
And he was the first mobile report van in the
whole Tri state area.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
It's amazing how far we've come that everybody with a
cell phone can literally anywhere you.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Are, anybody everywhere, but fortunately.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
And the what I've learned over the years. And you know,
I remember being in law school and Stan Chesley, who
does not exactly have a stellar reputation anymore considering everything
that he's done over his life, but he was the
lead plaineiff lawyer in the lawsuit against the aluminum wiring
manufacturing companies h And he gave this presentation to the

(03:59):
law class, and you know how he had this smoke
This is the smoking gun letter right here, and this
is the and when it had literally nothing at all
to do with the wiring.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
Actually, yeah, I mean that's it's very obvious now from
the evidence that I was able to uncover.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Well, the evidence that was covered up, Oh.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
It's been unbelievable. It was like a twenty thirty year
cover up, and it's all there now you can look
at it. I mean, things like in the FBI memo
where people a guy came in and told the FBI
two weeks before the fire that he heard guys on
an airplane sitting near him talking about torching the supper club.
They mentioned the family that owned it, the Shilling family,

(04:39):
had people on the inside. All these things, it's all
in an FBI memo that you can obtain if you
know how to get to the FBI vault and so forth.
But then there was also a letter that was in
the mailbox for the These are just scraps of evidence,
but lots of it. A letter that was in the
mailbox at the Shillings home when they got home that
night after the fire that said, you keep building, will

(05:00):
keep burning. Is it more obvious than that that it
wasn't some accident of aluminum wiring?

Speaker 1 (05:08):
And then the photographic evidence that was hidden away in
a box that wasn't turned over, That the fact that
the fire marshal didn't do an inspection, that they bulldozed
the building.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
That fire marshal was told to get the bleep out
of here by the ovenor because he wanted his Kentucky
State Police commander to investigate who was also corrupt?

Speaker 3 (05:32):
Everybody was corrupt, well, the mob.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
This is the bigger story. When the mob moved in
and this is true today too in a lot of ways.
But when the mob moved into a community and they
were everywhere, the corruption was like a cancer, and it
went everywhere, and it went as high as long as
you could be there. The higher it went, the higher
it went through judges, through politicians, through state reps, then
to congressman, then to the White House.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
I mean, we've seen all this in our history.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Well, and you know, if you watch any of the
mob movies, think of The Godfather, you think of all
the old mom movies that you know, we owned the
police and I need the protection from the police. You
got to share the police.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
That was all.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
I mean, that's all based on fact. You think it's
some kind of cliche some all that's just the movies. No, no,
this is all real.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
And there's a funny line I read the other day
from uh It's attributed to in Mexico, but it's true
for this too. If you have a problem, a crime committed,
and you go to the police, now you have two problems,
exactly right.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Well, let's let's start in you know, the May couple
of minutes. Let's get a little tip of the iceberg.
Because the supper Club fire was like the culmination of
what had been building for decades in terms of the
corruption of mob activity in northern Kentucky. How did the
mob and this was the I guess Northern Kentucky was

(06:55):
the hub in at least the Midwest for mob activity.
You know, people think about New York and Chicago, they.

Speaker 4 (07:03):
Called it Little Mexico, they called it sin city, but
it was big time.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
And how did it land here? How did it get established,
of all places northern Kentucky.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
Well, it really started with George Remas, who was the
king of bootleggers. And if you want to back it
up even a little farther, it started with Prohibition. The
Mob was really kind of an isolated phenomenon before Prohibition
that was confined to the New York New Jersey corridor
in Chicago and La you know, the big cities where
they had huge Italian American communities. But after Prohibition, the

(07:37):
Mob saw this opportunity. Here's this vast public demand for
something the government has decided won't be legal, and they
started providing the bootleg booze. And it was George Remas
and Cincinnati who really cornered the market. So he was
not only the king of bootleggers locally, he was the
king of bootleggers nationally. And his distribution hub, he said,

(07:58):
he bribed so many people, and since Sinnati, it was unbelievable,
but it was a lot easier to bribe and take
over the government in Newport because it's smaller and your
people with the handout. So he put his distribution center
in northern Kentucky and from there he corrupted the entire
Newport Covington area. The whole thing was just I mean, police, judges,

(08:23):
council members, everybody, prosecutors, just.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
So the established mob networks that existed pre prohibition were
they was it mostly protection, money and prostitution and maybe gambling.
I guess I don't know to what degree gambling was illegal,
But did they do like numbers rackets kind of thing
back then?

Speaker 4 (08:45):
Yeah, numbers, But I mean gambling was supposedly illegal, but
it was pretty flagrant.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Everywhere really cares.

Speaker 4 (08:52):
Yeah, I mean Cincinnati had Elmwood Place was the bookie parlors,
and I mean there's all over the city you had
places that were doing that. And Northern Kentucky, of course,
you couldn't even walk in. According to the Key Fauv
Report in the nineteen fifties, you could not walk into
a cafe anywhere in Newport without finding slots and bookie

(09:13):
chalkboards in the back room, taking bats on the horses
just right there, right there in flagrant. They even had
horse races broadcast on the radio.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
In these places, that's great, so you wouldn't miss.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
You know, you can just go in and lose all
your everything you made that morning at work, and.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
I'm sure a lot of police officers came in and placebook.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
I made book two.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
Oh yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
My grandfather, my dad's father, was a bookmaker. He ran
Pat's Saloon, which is right next to the courthouse. Really
owned pat and the primary source of income for my
grandfather was bookmaking. I think the bar was just basically
a front for it. But that was here in the
city of Cincinnati.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
Well, the corruption was so endemic. For example, in Wilder, Kentucky,
the town Marshall, Big Jim Harris, he was also the
owner of the city's biggest brothel, and it.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
Was everybody knew it. Everybody knew it.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Lots more fun stuff like this with Peter Bronson. This
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See the talk station.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Seven twenty one if you've got KRCD talk station Bryan
Timas with Peter Bronson in studio, Author Extraordinary and publisher
again Chili dog press dot Com, where you find Peter's
publishing company talking about Forbidden Fruits in City's underworld. In
the supper Club Infernta, which of course refers to the
Beverly Hills supper Club Anniversary tomorrow, forty eight years since
the Beverly Hill supper Club fire, which, as Peter pointed out,

(13:05):
everything in the Greaterson Sinia knows. It's like everyone knows
about it and where they were when it happened, if
they were alive or have at least heard stories about it.
And as the years roll on, the more and more
we learn about it. Peter writes all about it and
Forbidden Fruit now going back to remas the guy that
cornered the liquor the prohibition liquor distributions. But I know

(13:27):
in your book you point out beginning in nineteen thirty six,
this mob activity that I guess existed already in the
in the northern Kentucky Newport area, I guess drew the
attention of the Cleveland Mob.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yes, I guess.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
So if you're just because you have control over a
territory doesn't mean you're.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Going to keep it.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
Well, you know what happened is in Atlantic City in
the twenties, the mob got together because they were having
too many problems with al Capone calling too much tension
with his violence and the Valentine's Day master.

Speaker 5 (13:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
Yeah, And so the all mob leaders got together in
Atlanta City for a summit and the idea was flies
only this is more like fifteen twenty families. And the
idea was, we're going to divide the USA into territories
or franchises. And that's when the Cleveland Mob was given.
The franchise included Michigan, Ohio, and Kentucky.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
So then Mo Dallas, who's the big boss of the
Cleveland Four, the Silent Syndicate, they were the opposite of component.
They kept a very low profile, didn't want any publicity
or attention drawn to them. Very smart, right, And when
he came down to see the Beverly Hills Country Club,
which is what it was called, that it was still
the showplace of the nation. And this was the finest

(14:42):
carpet joint anywhere. I mean it was the carpet joint
was the classy casino, sure or mob joint. So this
was the finest carpet joint anywhere.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
And he dress up with them.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah, yeah, they were their best.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
I mean men were actually were tails and bow ties everything,
and the women were all dressed to the nines and
their gowns and jewels. So the carpet joints also were
more fair. They didn't cheat you quite the way the
bust out joints did. Okay, But when he saw this place,
it's so classy and so cool, he said, I've got

(15:16):
to have this, and he issued an ultimatum to Pete Schmidt,
who was a crony and gangster.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
For George Remas I see.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
So when George went to prison, Pete kind of took
over Newport and he's running this fantastic place and he
tells him we'll buy you out or will burn you out,
And Pete, being a tough gangster who'd been in shootouts
with the Feds and run a lot of really oh yeah,
Pete says basically nope and turns his back on him,

(15:44):
and sure enough they burn him out. They set fire
to the club in nineteen thirty six in February maybe
it's January, they have to check anyway, and early in
the year, and a little girl who is five years
old was killed in that fire. She was the sister
of the caretaker, caretaker's wife who was staying overnight with them,
and the men went in and set that on fire

(16:07):
were finally caught, except for Red Masterson.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
So Red Masterson, Yeah, that name, that name doesn't ring
a bell to me. I know you mentioned all kinds
of characters, and I never knew that Sleep Out Louis
was a guy. I knew it was a club on
second St. They have all these mob characters, which is
just really fascinating. All this connection with our with our

(16:32):
local community.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
It's really hard to believe this stuff really happened here,
isn't it It is?

Speaker 1 (16:36):
I mean it it's it's That's why I thought this
book was just so absolutely fascinating. It's one of those
you can't put it down. I mean familiar at all
with us, with the with just the concept that northern
Kentucky was this hotbed for prostitution and extortion and gambling
and UH and bootlegging and a line go and it
is a real page turner. So make thank you listeners

(16:58):
get a copy. Joe added back to the way Upset
at fifty five cars dot Com. We'll continue with more
conversation about mob activity in the Beverly Hill Supper Club
fire with Peter Brownson after I put a good word
in for my friend Susette Loasa Camp. She is with
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Fifty five KRC the talk station.

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Your story has power and it can.

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Help Jenn and I first one one the four KASS
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traffick rather quickly, Teorg Shephard Chuck king ramon fifty five
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Speaker 1 (19:08):
Hey seven thirty fifty five KRCD talk station. Yes, I
am remissing my obligations to thank you Peter Bronson, as
had come off Memorial Day weekend and thanks to cribbage, Mike,
my submarine or friend proudly served his country underwater for
a long time. Wanted to thank you for your two
legacy of courage books that you collaborated on with Cheryl
Pop from Hoterfly tri State.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
Well, the honor was all mine to be with those
veterans and tell their stories. And I was thinking of
them and their stories a lot over the I bet
the Memorial Day weekend. It's just there were so many
amazing tales of what these men went through. And these
are people that a lot of us would know. Some
you don't, but some of them are pretty high profile
people in Cincinnati, and they just they did some heroic

(19:52):
things and then came back and that was all put away,
and nobody talked about it.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
I know.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
And that's the thing that nobody talked about it. That
is just a phenomenon among veterans, especially those who've seen combat.
It's just not something you want to be reminded of,
and to speak of it brings back some bad memories.
But man, the heroism, it's so worthy of them, you know,
letting us know what they went through and the courage
and bravery it takes to serve in the American military.

(20:21):
So God bless you for putting that pend paper.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
Cheryl does a great job. He does, Cheryl and Tom
Popp with the Honor Flight, that's just fantastic.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Terrific organization.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Pivoting back to Forbidden Fruit, and I wanted to find
out because I was wildly curious. You mentioned the succession
we go from Remus to the Cleveland Mob taking over
and their designs for the Beverly Hill Supper Club. You
described it as one of the best finest places, show
place of the nation kind of place.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, it was still the country Club up until they
closed it up in the nineteen sixties when Bobby Kennedy,
the Attorney General, came to Newport and umigated it, and
all the big boys from Cleveland and the New York
and Chicago mobs fled to Las Vegas. So that's the
turning point, that's the big spot, and then the country

(21:10):
was known as the Beverly Hills Country Club. It was
absolutely gorgeous place, fantastically expensive chandeliers and all the furnishings
were spectacular.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
It was boarded up for about ten years, just empty.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
So that's how the Shillings ended up acquiring.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, So he always wondered about that transition because obviously
since the mob burned it down again later with these
forty eighth anniversary tomorrow of the Supper Club fire, there
was demand for it. Why was it boarded up for
those ten years? Is that because the mobs had just
been eliminated and no one had designs on it.

Speaker 4 (21:45):
Well, when Bobby Kennedy got involved with the Ratterman scandal,
he came and sent one of his top us attorneys
to come to Newport with the mission to clean it up.
Andy Claire wore on the Mob on behalf of the Kennedys.
So the Kennedys declared war on organized crime right in Newport,
all right, and that led to that vendetta that It's

(22:08):
very interesting, but that's.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Where a lot of the conspiracy theories come about, with
Kennedy's sea.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
With the mob being involved.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, they're still getting information out about that.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
We've got another book.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
To write, Peter, and your book on Kennedy to the
list of the nine thousand books that have been written
on Kennedy. All kidness, all right. So the Shilling family,
now I knew they owned the Lookout House and that
wouldn't burn down too Any suspicions around how.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
That happened, Oh yeah, definitely.

Speaker 4 (22:39):
You know there were before leading up to the Beverly
Hills Supper Club fire in nineteen seventy seven. Every year
in northern Kentucky there was a spectacular, suspicious fire, and
in all of those cases, the fire marshals suspected arson
and said they found evidence of accelerants and they just
couldn't look out house was one of them.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
There were a bunch of nightclubs.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
There were all these famous restaurants that people would remember,
and every year this happens and they're all mob fires, right,
and then all of a sudden, in nineteen seventy seven,
the supper club burns and the first thing the governor
says when he shows up on the scene is it's
an accident.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
That's kind of like saying nine to eleven.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
Just an isolated incident, folks, has nothing to do with terrorism.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Nothing to see here, all right.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
So the vacuum that was left when Kennedy came in
and cleaned out the Chicago mob, the other mob activity
northern Kentucky.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Who filled that void?

Speaker 1 (23:34):
What mob came in and then started engaging in this
you know, the arsons and I guess probably illegal gambling, prostitution,
and drugs.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, who was it?

Speaker 4 (23:44):
It was kind of a period of disorganized crime. But
the big boss at that time was Screw Andrews, who
grew up right here in Cincinnati.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Screw Andrews Yeah.

Speaker 4 (23:53):
His real name was Frank Andreola Well and he was
a really bad guy. He was a murderer, a brawler,
a thug. He ran the numbers rackets on the west
side of Cincinnati and all the black neighborhoods.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
There was a huge numbers racket.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
He ran that out of Newport, and he ran all
the brothels in northern Kentucky, and there were many, And
then the Northern Kentucky scene gradually devolved into Cincinnati's sin strip.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah, just as long as it was taking place over there,
the politicians in Cincinnati were like, okay, I don't care
to keep it over there, going over there, yep. So
we had a more we had a less corrupt environment
on the north side of the river. And as long
as you were able to fulfill your your sinful needs
across the river, that would say okay.

Speaker 4 (24:40):
Yeah, you had your adult playground across the river. So
cincinnati sinstrip really was Newport and all cities in the
seventies had a sin strip, right, I mean, if we
grew up in that period, you knew it. That's where
the X rated theaters where yeah, the X rayed theater,
the dirty book stores, the topless clubs, all of that stuff.

(25:01):
So at that time Newport had seventeen strip clubs on
Monmouth Street alone. He's Louise, Yeah, I mean it was
totally the sin strip. It was pretty ridiculous. But so
Screw Andrews took over and he's pretty much running. And
Bobby Kennedy when he came in, he did had the
irs to a study and he determined that the handle

(25:24):
meaning that's the word for the take the profit of
the mobs gambling in Newport, and they were the national
hub for layoff betting, which is sort of the betting
of that insurance for all about anyway, the handle was
greater than the combined tax revenues of Ohio and Kentucky.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
Oh god, yeah, oh.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
I told you folks.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Fun facts and Peter Brons and author are forbidden fruits
in cities underworld of the supper club Inferno. More with
Peter after these brief words here for but Herbert Motors.
I love those folks at Butt Herbert, and thank you
Jim Keifer Westside, Jim or steer me in the right
direction now. From my horrific box store experience trying to
get a new lawnmower from my yard and went to

(26:09):
the box store stupidly not knowing about but Herbert Motors
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take it back to the box store, return it. And
Keifer heard me lamenting that, and he said, Brian, but

(26:30):
Herbert Motors, fifth generation familine operator. You work with a
Herbert Family member when you reach out to them. They
carry only the finest lawn equipment out there, and they
service everything they sell. They also delivered to your doors.
You don't have to worry about renting a truck or
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(26:51):
But Herbert Motors and Honda. My Honda powered mower does
a great job, had it for years now, They serviced
it recently.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
You know, you got to everything you want right here.
And Herbert Family.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
I remember working with you because they know their name
is on the door, which is why the customer service
is outstanding. Tell them, Brian said, Hi, when you call
them up, it's five one three five four one thirty
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Learn more online.

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Check it all out at Budherbertmotors dot com.

Speaker 4 (27:20):
This is fifty five KRC an iHeartRadio station.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
We lost my herses.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Ken and I what a fore caask clouds yes, chance rain, yes,
sixty four for high today, same thing, overnight clouds with
a few showers fifty seven will mostly cloudy, slight chance
range tomorrow seventy for the high overnight fifty seven with
more clowns and slight chance of showers. Oh look Lord
bowl Thursday, same thing, more clowns, well, possibility for rain
and a high in the lowest seventies sixty degrees.

Speaker 5 (27:47):
Right now, traffic up day time from the ucup Tramphing Center.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
You see Health.

Speaker 5 (27:51):
You'll find comprehensive care that's so personal and make sure
best tomorrow possible. That's boundless care for better outcomes. Expect
more at you see Health southbound seventy five. That is
a slow go extra half hour out of Sharon Bill
to an accident that hands the left two lanes blocked
off just above the Reagan Highway northbound seventy five slows

(28:12):
Buttermilk to Kyle's and again between Mitchell and Town Street,
chucking romon fifty five krs.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
The talk station.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Fifty five Kers talk Station A Very Happy two is
the extra special Peter Bronson and Studio talking about the
forty eighth anniversary of the Beverly Hill Supper Club fire
that's tomorrow written about in Forbidden Fruit, which traces all
the mob activity in northern Kentucky from its earliest days
through the burning down of the Beverly Hill Supper Club,
which he and I both agree was done.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
By the mob.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
And okay, so we have it closed after Kennedy shows up,
it's boarded up. Then at some point the Shilling family
acquires it. Yes, this is after the Lookout House fire.

Speaker 4 (28:57):
The Lookout House burns and suspicious circumstances, I should add,
And then Shilling makes his move with his brother and
they go over and buy this this kind of time
capsule of all this heyday. I mean, when they went
in there, the craps tables were still there, the roulette wheels,
which are extremely valuable today.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
But all of.

Speaker 4 (29:19):
Everything was just set up, like they just locked the
dark poker chips on the table everything.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
But they didn't have vandals back in nor they Kentucky
in the day.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
I guess not. I mean, or maybe people were just wise.
They wouldn't mess with that property. You might break into
somebody's house, but you would not mess with that.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Property fair enough on that, And so any connection with
the Shilling family and the mob back behind me, I
was just wondering, Yeah, because usually when you think about this,
the place got burned down because let's say they refuse
to pay protection money or something. If they're not any
direct ownership by the mob and no competing mob, fashion

(29:56):
wants to go burn it down. Is that what you're
able to complute? Because I know you have FBI documents,
you issued Foyer request, you had talked to people when
you were writing this that had knowledge about the interactions,
So any who worked there's what's the story about leading
up to that?

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Well?

Speaker 4 (30:10):
The interesting thing is that to set the context, in
nineteen seventy seven, there was a lot of national push
in Congress was considering legalized gambling much like we have
it today with legal casinos and state lotteries and all
the rest. And so Dick Shilling had big plans for
that hilltop. He even had bulldozers on the site when
the fire occurred, getting ready to expand, build a hotel,

(30:32):
and going big, really big to legalize casino gambling.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
It was a perfect spot for it, oh sure.

Speaker 4 (30:39):
In fact, after the club years later, Dick Shilling becomes
the godfather of riverboat gambling in Mississippi. No oh yeah,
he was always aiming for that, and he did make
a killing with it, you could say, pardon the pun.
But at this time he's planning to expand his huge,

(31:00):
popular and nationally known supper club show place in the nation.
And according to the employees that I interviewed who were
working there during that week, they said that these two
guys uh kind of menacing types showed up one day
and met with Shilling and his son and told them, basically,
you fill out the check. Here's the blank check. We

(31:22):
want this property, and you fill out the chick check
or else wouldn't it be ashamed if your if your
nightclub here burned down? And so they Chilling was a
repetition of the it is and just like p. Schmidt,
Shilling basically showed him the door and no uncertain terms
and uh, what do you know? Lo and behold, within

(31:45):
a short period of time the place burns.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Wow, and such a just a tragic loss of life.
Makes you wonder.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
And based upon you know, the photographs I've seen where
the fire actually started, Yes, the saber room. Yeah, if
they intended it to catch fire when it was fully packed,
or maybe the explosive device went off at the wrong
time or something.

Speaker 4 (32:09):
Yeah, I think that's that's the theory that I think
is most plausible, is that even the mob didn't want
to kill all those people, I mean, one hundred and
sixty five people. Yeah, and of course brought national attention,
and then it really did. Between that and other reasons,
the whole push for casino gambling.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Kind of never went anywhere, fell by the way side,
at least for a while.

Speaker 4 (32:31):
So really it was a contrary to their own interests
to have this this so tragic and.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, and particularly we can conclude in the next segment
on the obvious ownership of the politicians and the police
and those that were charged with you know, actually doing
an investigation or following through on this because clearly it
never happened. Seven forty six fifty five Carsity Talk Station
one more with Peter Bronson. Plumbtie Plumbing, It's always plumbing

(33:00):
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seven eighty four eighty three online. You can schedule appointment
right there at the website. And learn more about all
the services they offer. Plumb Tight dot Com fifty five KRC.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Channelnine.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Weather forecasts got brains likely today, A few storms are possible,
sixty four for the high. Overcast to night with a
few showers, fifty seven clouds with a few showers. Tomorrow
with the highest seventy over nine fifty seven yes, clouds
and a few showers. And on Thursday more clouds or
chance of ring. Low seventies for the high sixty right now, traffic.

Speaker 5 (34:15):
Tight from the UC Tramffic Center. You see health. You'll
find comprehensive care that's so personal. I make sure best
tomorrow possible. That's boundless care for better outcomes. Expect more.
You see health dot Com crews continue to work for
the reck southbound seventy five, but lanes are blocked off
near the Regan Highway. That's backing traffic towards Glendale Milford

(34:35):
for close to a half hour delay.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Northbound seventy five.

Speaker 5 (34:39):
There's break lights from Buttermilk to Tiles and Mitchell to
Town Kingbram on fifty five KR.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
See the talk station.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
It's seven forty nine close to seven fifty fifty five
k City Talk station.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Boy this hour's just flown by.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
It's always interesting conversation with Peter Brownson's here in studio.
Most notably we're talking about again one of my favorite
books he's written, Forbidden Fruits, since City's Underworld and the
supper Club Inferno brought this one back to the top
because it is the forty eighth anniversary of the Beverly
Hills Club. Supper Club to fire tomorrow. Okay, we got
all the background you trace this through in brief form.

(35:15):
It's all in the book, folks. You got to get
it the fire. So you got these shady characters, you know, no, No,
s Cipriano whoever, coming in and threatening the Shilling family.
Shilling says, no, get out of my place. Yeah, and
then the place mysteriously burns out of the ground normally,
and I alluded to this earlier, and you wrote about
it as well, and it's been written about in other books.

(35:37):
A fire marshal's going to come in and do a
thorough inspection.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
They're not going to.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Knock a place down the next day. But nonetheless, you
have an organized attempt, which, with hindsight, an organized attempt
to just completely cover this up and just bury it.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Yeah, It was an amazing cover up, and it really
surprised me because I came to this with a blank slate,
and really I was skeptical that anything like this could
be covered up because somewhere somebody's got to tell you
the truth. Yeah, but they did a very good job
at it. For example, I interviewed the assistant State fire
Marshal who was there on the scene, went to the

(36:15):
governor and said, I want to declare this The fire
marshal said, this is a crime scene. We need to
treat it that way, and I want to start my investigation.
And he was told by the government to get the
bleep out of here. State police are taking over.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
And that fire marshal he's the one that took the
initial pictures that got covered up, right.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
I think so. And also the state police.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
State police took lots of pictures and then we never
saw them for decades. And he puts the state police. Now,
why would you put the state police in charge of
a fire investigation. That's like saying I want the fire
marshal to go after this serial killer.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 4 (36:50):
No, it makes no sense. But it was because the
commander of the state police was corrupt. And as I
went through the people that were in charge of the
investigations on a panel of about six people or seven,
I can't recall, but there were about six people on
this panel, all but one were involved in terrible scandals

(37:10):
shortly after that or later in their careers involving corruption.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
Oh so, gosh, what.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Do you do with them?

Speaker 1 (37:18):
It only caught up with them later revealing their maybe
mob connections or their organized crime connections down the road
on things unrelated to the supper club fire. But like,
oh well that explains that.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (37:30):
For example, you had a chief of staff for the
governor who was later arrested for threatening a federal judge
and threatening to kill him.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
I mean, you had.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
All of these guys that were very shaky, I mean
just really mobbed up or close to it, or you know.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
One of the best ways to put it is that
they're very vulnerable to extortion by the mob.

Speaker 4 (37:54):
Okay, they were involved in things that could have destroyed
their careers.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
And the mob only has to pick up a phone and.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Say, like, we've got photographs of that night you were
in the hotel room in northern Kentucky with the prostitute. Yeah, yeah, well,
that may explain the connection to the governor then, because
the governor is the one that ordered the place knocked
our bulldoze the following day.

Speaker 4 (38:12):
Correct, Well, we're not sure exactly who ordered that, but
we do know that the following day the Zebra Room,
which was where the fire began, right in the basement
below the Zebra Room. There's huge evidence of fire down there.
Yes there is, and they denied that for about twenty
five thirty years too. But so in the Zebra Room,
what we new notice is that I have pictures in

(38:34):
the book of the Clamshell Cranes that the very next
day destroying that place first, That is the first place
the Clamshell Cranes went to and destroyed. And they were
not just demolishing a burned building, they were covering up
a crime scene.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
That's still heartbreaking when you think about that level of
corruption that it existed, and that you know, and to
this day probably still it does exist.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
On some level, it becomes less implause, does it not.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
As we read more about what was going on with
some of our federal agencies.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean you mentioned off air
of the FBI. I mean they had the goods on
literally everybody under Jaigar Hoover.

Speaker 4 (39:11):
Yeah, and Jaegar Hoover was about as corrupt as they come.
I was surprised with that. You know, when I got
into this, what a whitewash he did for the Kennedy
administration or assassination. He literally covered up mob connections between
that were directly linked to Oswald by signing his initials
on a memo with comments, this does not need to
be included. Well, you know, he was compromised. It's just

(39:38):
you know, when you're in spend like I did, a
career in the newspaper business, you think you're pretty cynical.
But I was not cynical enough. I was surprised again
and again and how deep the corruption was.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
So you went in with a clean slate, with no
preconceived notions, only to discover all of this.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
Yeah, and it's kind of a story that I'd heard
around the newsroom when I got here in ninety two,
and so I was fascinated by it, and of course,
and I thought, well, let's find out what really happened.
And I was quite surprised a lot of things that
didn't match the story i'd been told that were more
interesting or things that I thought was kind of minimized

(40:16):
were actually much worse than I expected.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, and you paint such a brilliant picture of this
and all the information and details. Along with some of
the other books that have been written. I'm not going
to discount the work that others have done on this.
Oh yeah, there are some great books out there, but
the volume of evidence. You could get a grand jury
indictment in no time. If this you spun back the
clock and we were closer in time to the fire,
it would be easy to get a grand jury indictment.

(40:38):
And then I think easy to get a conviction because
this is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If you can
hang it around some person or some organization, this was
murder outright.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
I think one of the fire investigators was a man
from John Jay University, which has a school for that
type of thing, fire investigation. One of the professors went
back and investigated this as a cold case, and he's
put a lot of time into it, and his quote
was that this is the biggest unsolved mass murder.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
In US history.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Peter Bronson, God bless you for bringing coming in and
talking to my listeners to me today. I always enjoy
having these conversations with You could talk for hours. Get
the book Forbidden Fruits since it He's Underworld and the
Supper Club Inferno. Joe Strecker's LinkedIn on my blog page.
But five Carsey dot com and Why You're at It.
Get the rest of Peter's books. They are absolutely just
wonderful reads. Chili Dogpress dot com. If you want to

(41:31):
go directly, Amazon's got them, but your link is up
on my blog page. Peter, And it's always just a
distinct pleasure for me talking.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
With Thank you, Brian. It's always a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
I look forward to doing it again sometime real soon.
Don't go away, folks. Inside Scoop and Bright Barton News the
return of Texas Border. Editor Bob Price got some updates
from the Border, plus the Daniel Davis deep dive Russia
situation with Ukraine kind of going off the rails. Daniel
Davis on that at eight thirty be right back.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Confuse happens fast stamped in eight at the top of
the hour. Not going to be complicated, It's going to
go very fast.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
And fifty five KRC the talk station.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
This