Steve Goodin - Repeal Connected Communities

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Jen and I weather tot these guys today high twenty
one overnight snow moves in winter weather advisory from my
friends around northern Kentucky.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Whatever that means fifteen for the low twenty two to
the high.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Tomorrow is early snow possible, so watch for the slick
spots on your commute. Overcast Wednesday night snow will taper off.
Ohio River going over flood stage of predicting a low
of twelve degrees and a high twenty three on Thursday
with Hartley cloudy skies fifteen. Right now, let's get an
update on traffic from the.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
UCL Traffic Center. You see health.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
You'll find comprehensive care that's so personal it makes your
best tomorrow possible. That's boundless care for better outcomes. Expect
more at u S health dot com. Southbound seventy five
break lights through Wachman northbound seventy five slow go from
before Buttermilk into the cut. There's a wreck on Bypass
four at Hamilton Middletown and Kellogg is underwater near Sutton

(00:53):
thanks to the rising river. Chuck Ingram on fifty five
KRC the talk station.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Seven thirty right now, if you have kersite talk station.
It is a very happy Tuesday. We got the inside
scoop with Bright Bart News coming up at eight oh
five with aw Or Hawkins, the Second Amendment expert Dania
Davis Deep Dive one hour from now on the efforts
on Trump administration to solve the war between Russian and Ukraine.
And right now from the law firm of Porter Wright,

(01:21):
excellent lawyers. They are our legal expert and consultants. Steve
Good and welcome back to the Morning Show, my friend.
It's always a real pleasure having you on the show.

Speaker 4 (01:30):
Good morning, sir.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
So you have your Charter Committee hat on.

Speaker 4 (01:37):
That's right. We're talking about some bad laws that the
city has passed recently here and I've been very honored
to serve as the chairman and convener of our one
hundred year old Charter Party, the third party here in Cincinnati,
and we've got some real issues with a major zoning

(01:58):
reform that the city just passed. I put reform in
quotation marks. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
I saw your at least I cognitively felt your quote
sign with your fingers when you said that. Now, this
so called reform, the connected communities zoning legislation remind my
listeners before we start talking about why the Charter Committee
wants to repeal it, but remind my listeners what connected
communities is.

Speaker 4 (02:20):
Well, it's it is a kind of progressive fever dream
of zoning reform that will is really kind of a
war on single family homeowners. We've been calling it disconnected communities.
I know that's an easy kind of joke to make,
but you know you'll win. You win basketball games with
layups and we'll make the joke. So disconnected communities is
this sort of concept that the city came up with

(02:42):
that we need more density, which I think everyone agrees with.
I mean, I think that we need more taxpayers, we
need more people living in the city. It's how you
go about it that is the problem. So we have
these new rabbid transit bus lines that will be coming
on through much of the city in the coming year,
running all the major corridors, such as up through Clifton Avenue,

(03:05):
Hamilton Avenue at the Reading Road corridor, through almost the
entire city, most of the West side, and the idea
here is that there will be basically no zoning requirements
at all within four blocks of either side of these
gigantic bus lines. Which will encompass most of the city.
No height requirements, no parking requirements, no garages, no anything.
And the idea is to encourage multifamily kind of middle housing,

(03:30):
lower end multi family construction. So the practical effect of
this will be out of town developers, private equity developers
which are coming into the area in droves anyway, buying
up single family houses, knocking them down for profit, and
then putting in twelve to fourteen unit in apartment complexes

(03:50):
right in these single family areas. So it would, in theory,
I guess, increase density. The idea is you want these
folks to live in the apartments along these bus lines.
It's supposed to encourage people to ride the bus and
so forth. But it totally disrespects existing homeowners, It disrespects
the historic character in the neighborhoods. There are no requirements

(04:13):
whatsoever that these new apartment complexes even fit in with
the neighborhoods. And what we're already seeing in a handful
of neighborhoods like along of College Hill area, we're seeing
we're seeing a kind of pre connected communities. Version of
this happened in Hyde Park Square, where the neighbors are
looking at this and saying, you know, we moved here
and bought these houses, an invested a significant amount of
our resources and savings into our homes. We're raising our

(04:35):
families here, and now you're building these modern things with
no parking, adding to congestion and totally changing the way
our neighborhood works and looks, and we don't want it.
And you know this is one of these. It was
passed over the objection of almost every community council in
the city. It kind of unites people from Avondale to
North Avondale, to Price Hill to Clift into Hyde Park, Democrat, Republican,

(05:00):
the in between. We're saying we don't want this. The
city council passed it over everyone's objection, and we think
it's going to be the hottest political issue this fall,
going into the races. It's a uniquely local issue, it's
a local screw up. It's something that cuts across all
party lines, and it's a great classic Charter third party

(05:21):
issue for us because it goes to transparency, consent of
the government, and really it's the idea of zoning is
not a particularly sexy issue, but let me tell you,
it is motivating people across the city right now.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
It is horrible news. If you're a homeowner, Well, I
have several questions for you. We're coming up against the
break here, so I'm a pause and I will bring
you back to ask those questions and talk a little
bit more about this and whether or not there might
be Oh, I don't know, legal challenges to the whole thing.
Seven thirty five right now more with Steve Gooden. First
word for and no, it won't get rid of the

(05:55):
stench of politics brought about by that Connected Communities program,
but it will get rid of the owners that you're
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Speaker 4 (06:58):
This is fifty five kr an iHeartRadio station, Steve Perrin's coordinated.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Fine Jenn Andi went the poecast cloudy skuys to day
with the high twenty one oh Nagle with fifteen with
the snow coming in late night early snow tomorrow morning,
so please watch out for slick spots on the Connue
twenty two for the high tomorrow down to twelve. Overnight
snow will taper off the Ohio River met well go
beyond the flood stage right now the predicted fifty three

(07:24):
point four feet. Thursday's going to be a partly cloudy
day with a high of twenty three. It's fifteen right
now and it is traffic time. From the UCL Traffic Center.
You see health.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
You'll find comprehensive care that's so personal it makes your
best tomorrow possible. That's boundless care for better outcomes. Expect
more at u se health dot com. Southbound seventy five
break lights through Wachland northbound seventy five slow go from
before buttermilk into the cut. There's a wreck on by
Pass four at Hamilton, Middletown and kell Agg is underwater

(07:55):
near Sutton thanks to the rising river. Chuck Ingram on
fifty five k DE talk station.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Fifty fout carc DE talk Station, A very happy Tuesday
to you. Love talking with Steve Gooden about matters legal
and of course in this particular case, UH, the City
of Cincinnati ramming this connected community zoning legislation down the
throats of every community in the City of Cincinnati for
denser housing, no parking, but on a bus line.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
And that's the first question, Steve.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
You predicated this whole rezoning of all the communities on
the idea it's going to have this particular bus route
going through it. So the folks in these dense housing
projects will have ability to take that bus because it
is on the bus route. Now is that to suggest,
I'm curious to know if down the road they expand

(08:47):
these bus routes, would that then expand the connected communities program?

Speaker 4 (08:54):
Well, absolutely, it could happen that way. And I mean,
you know, the bus lines are are being expanded, you know,
as they are. I mean the current plan is to
add these sort of rapid transit buses, these bigger buses,
the so called articulated ones that are kind of double
buses and have the sort of rubberized thing in the middle.
So I mean they're already expanding, and that's part of

(09:15):
the idea here. But I think that's also one of
the great failings of this concept, which it just assumes
that people who are going to move into these houses
are going to ride the bus forever. I mean, we
know from other cities that have tried similar schemes out
of the Northwest that people you know, are aspirational. They
want they want cars. I mean, cars are access so

(09:38):
much more economic opportunity for people. They allow you to
look at different kinds of jobs, and people aren't going
to stop wanting cars. So even if you're in a
part of your life where you're going to want to
live in one of these again market rate but lower
end sort of houses or apartment buildings and live near
a bus line and riding the bus. You might you're
going to want to car. Someday you're going to want

(09:59):
to go into that. It kind of takes away that
the whole economic mode of people have of.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Working well, now does market forces are going to work?
Steve good and and you know, at least up until
very very recently, the price of real estate has been
going through the roof for a variety of reasons. But
Hyde Park, let's use that as an illustration, because they're
kind of waging a nimby sort of challenge of this
coming to Hyde Park is allegedly tear down some historic

(10:24):
homes in order to build these dense housing. But if
you're going to be able to live in hyde Park Square,
that doesn't necessary. That doesn't mean that the place that
they're building isn't going to be really comparatively outrageously expensive.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
That's exactly right. I mean, it's a market intervention that
is just not well thought out. And look, I mean
the big pushback that we're getting, you know, from city Hall,
It's like, yeah, this isn't mbyism. I've been told it's classism, racism,
even though you know, so there's this assumption, I guess
that people of color will be buying these I think

(10:58):
that's a false assumption. Our coalition that are opposed, that
is opposing this thing is very diverse neighbor because all
over the city people weighing in from you know, a black,
white otherwise. And if you're a black person for instance,
who has actually you know, done what everyone's been telling
you for generations to build generational wealth and actually invest
in a home and save up the money and get

(11:19):
a down payment and buy a house. This is particularly
bad news because you know, you you now are having
these things that are going to affect your property values,
these apartment buildings built right next to you in your
single family area. But you you're absolutely right, there's no
guarantee that they won't be priced up like crazy. And
some of these kind of higher end neighborhoods, I mean,

(11:41):
there is a is an attempted market intervention that is
just going to empower lower end development that may not
end up staying low end. Uh, we don't know. And
it just assumes that nobody will ever aspire to anything
different or better, that they'll be happy to come into
these small apartment complexes with cars, ride the bus forever.

(12:01):
I mean, that's not how human being exact, not in
a capitalistic society such as ours.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well, And I mean, I obviously agree with that point.
If you own a home and they're going to build
a multi unit facility right next to it, your property
is going to deteriorate in value, especially if it doesn't
have any parking there. So there's that component. But this
whole idea, if you build it, they will come, is
that even a safe assumption. I mean, are you going
to move into the city of Cincinnati, for example, you

(12:27):
are going to be paying a high a tax. That's
I mean, that's one of the reasons people move out
of the city of Cincinnati. You got that city tax,
which funds a general fund, and you don't have to
pay that if you live in other communities sometimes.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
I so.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
I wouldn't think that it's necessarily going to be a
draw for the city of Cincinnati just because there's more
available housing. And then the second point on that is,
how much are they really thinking is going to be built?
How much additional population will they be bringing. How many
units do they think are actually going to be completed.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
Well, they don't know. And I'll tell you the one
thing that they do know, and that does bother that
bothers us at Charter and bothers me particularly, is that
we do know that this area, because it is there
is sort of there is a legit housing crunch. I
think in the city Cincinnati that's real in part from
the reasons you've mentioned. You know, their downtown's doing great,
over the Rhinees doing great. The rest of our neighborhoods,

(13:22):
you know, are struggling on the services aspect. So it's
high tax as poor services. I'm sitting here looking at
snow out my window here at nan Clifton right now.
And the slowly moving traffic. I mean, these are all
the traditional reasons that it's hard to bring people into
the city sometimes. But all that being said that we
do know that this is a hot market for private equity.

(13:43):
Out of town folks looking to do multifamilies and this
truly empowers them. And we know that out of town
landlords tend to be bad landlords. They tend not to
take care of their property and that's exactly what we're
concerned about, is a bunch of private equity folks coming
in buying up some single family housing heavily into this market.
They don't perform, they pull out, and then we have

(14:04):
co enforcement issues empty properties. Or the flip side is
you're going to have people rushing into certain neighborhoods where
they're built thinking they're getting a bargain and really ending
up with a kind of lousy product and not being
happy with it, or they bid up. I mean, either way,
it's a market intervention that is extremely ill conceived. No
one knows what's going to happen other than what we've

(14:26):
seen in other cities, which is private equity coming in
on the cheap and picking up properties this way. We
have so many other ways we can improve density, including
doing what Columbus has done, which is leverage its public
utilities to annex nearby communities. We could do. We could
also address the many the thousands of vacant homes that
are still hanging around at different parts of the city

(14:46):
thanks to the housing bubble from two thousand and eight
two thousand and nine. We could actually go after those
out of town banks that own those properties. And try
to return those to productivities. There are so many other
things we could do rather than screw around with our
main historic neighborhoods. The great thing about the cities we
have these historic neighborhoods at Hyde Park, Clifton Price Ll

(15:08):
East Price Hill. They have a distinct character and that's
what drives people there, and messing with that seems like
the last thing you'd want to do well.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
And also, I mean, let's just face it, Steve, it
seems to me if they paid closer attention to maintaining
the roads and infrastructure, the communities might be more desirable
for folks to want to invest in. I mean, I mean,
there's so many roads in the city that are just
it's like from Goz I mentioned all the time in
the context, like Sunset my favorite road to pick on.

(15:36):
But that's been a mess for years and years and years.
But if you improve, it's like fixing the broken windows.
Crime goes down in neighborhoods that look like they're being
cared for, and there are many neighborhoods that have been
completely overlooked and neglected for years.

Speaker 4 (15:50):
That's absolutely right. I mean, look, we've got there's a
basic services problem. There's a crime component problem here, you know,
and there's also an economic all the problem. I mean,
you know, the city really has got has got to
get if they want to grow, they've got to get
back into the business. I'm trying to lure jobs here,
manufacturing jobs. There's still plenty of commercial land to develop

(16:12):
within the City of Cincinnati. And rather than putting the
energy here into like screwing around with these kind of
you know, attempt at interventions in the housing market, really
to encourage public transit. All the millions of dollars and
thousands of dollars of staff time that have been spent
like screwing around with this scheme, I got if that
had been put into some sort of economic, real economic

(16:33):
development activity to try to develop some of the areas,
particularly along the Paddock Road corridor in the city, and
actually get some jobs for people, entry level jobs, and
to try to bring some manufacturing back in the city,
then we'd have something. I mean, then you'd have some density. Uh.
But that doesn't seem to be where anybody's attention as well.
It's it's it's overthought. It's this bad policy, and the

(16:55):
neighborhoods just don't want it. It's a total failure of
civic engagement. People saying across the city, please don't do this,
and they did it anyway. It became sort of like
a progressive litmus test at city hall.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Well, since you're an excellent litigation attorney Porterwright dot com, say,
read Steve, any potential for litigation to try to stop this.

Speaker 4 (17:16):
You know at this point likely not. I mean we've
looked at that, frankly. I mean, there are folks who
were looking at an initiative, a petition drive to put
it on the ballot this fall, and I don't know
that that's going to happen. There is there are some
thoughts that people, you know, particularly once this begins in earnest,
that it could trigger a property rights bace challenge. Say

(17:38):
basically like, hey, look, I owned my house, particularly I
own my house outright, and you guys are affecting the
value here of it. But it's really really hard to
sue cities from property loss. I mean, you have to
show kind of bad faith and arbitrary capricious acts. So
it's a difficult thing to do. But we think, what
really what the practical effect of this is. It's going

(17:59):
to be a very very hot political issue, this wall,
and I think you're going to see quite a few
candidates coming out trying to repeal it. What's interesting to
me is that the city, or at least some of
the council members, have held a town hall over the
weekend and they're turned to they know they've got a problem.
The sponsor of this, you know, Reggie Harris left his
council seat and went to d C ironically to work

(18:19):
on housing policy and the Biden administration, so you know
he's no longer going to have to face the political
consequences of this. And we know some of the other
council members are trying to amend the thing that you know,
our group is basically saying, look, it's got to be
repealed outright, we need to start all over. We needed
a totally different discussion and a more realistic discussion about

(18:42):
what we need to do to grow the city, rather
than this sort of scheme to kind of infill it
with the lower end department of buildings with no parking.
That's something just the neighborhoods do not want.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Steve Gooden, I cannot thank you enough for explaining this
in great detail and easily understandable words for my listening
on It's in me. You're good man, Steve, and I
appreciate the time that you offer to my listeners in
the morning show. We'll have you on again real soon.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
You are much too kind, Brian, thank you for paying
attention to this issue.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Oh, I appreciate your efforts on behalf of all the
communities in the city of Cincinnati. It's seven to fifty
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