December 12, 2025 • 19 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The talk station six twenty nine on a Friday. It
(00:03):
is that time appointment listening, necessary listening, that is, if
you want to stay out of trouble in your online antics.
Brought to you by intrust it dot com. It's tech Friday.
But Dave Hatter interest I dot COM's Dave's company. If
you outstanding work, if you're a business, I know you've
got computers and computer needs. They are the default folks
to rely upon. Interest I dot com, the business courrier
says are the best in the business. And who can
(00:25):
doubt what they say about a Dave Hatter. Thank you
for what you do each and every day for my
listeners and their companies. Welcome back for another important discussion.
It's time for tech Friday. Good here, Happy Friday Day.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, Happy Friday to you, Brian and Joe and all
your listeners. Happy to be here, glad you are.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
And this skimmer thing we've got I know you relied
on a local story about a convenience store card reader,
a skimmer thing. We can talk about that, but this
also goes along with the idea that they can capture
your card information by you know, digitally or through the waves, right,
I mean the elect tronically. They don't even need to
touch you or touch your card, that.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Is correct, Brian. I mean it depends on the type
of cards you have and the type of device they have.
But what you're describing really is just another form of skimming. Now.
You know, when you look at this, you hear different
terms skimming, shimming, that sort of thing. But basically, you know,
most credit cards still have a max right, some have
the chip. You know, you can use the near field
(01:25):
communication to pay, the tap to pay, you can wipe
your card. There's there's all these different ways that you know,
you can get the information off a credit card or
debit card. Now, this particular thing again, we've talked about
this before and it's showing up here once again in
the Tri State area. People using skimmers, which are basically devices.
(01:46):
Depending on the device, sometimes it's called a shimmer if
it goes inside, but essentially you either put a device
over the aperture of the credit card reader or inside
the credit card reader. Could be a gas pump, could
be an ATM, could be a point sales system sitting
on a counter somewhere. But you know, once you put
the card into it, it attempts to read the mag strip.
(02:07):
It attempts to read the chip again. Whatever it's designed
to do, or tap to pay, it can potentially, you know,
I could walk up to you with the right device
in my pocket, bump into you, and try to read
the cards in your wallet. So there's a variety of
different ways this works. We're just now seeing another real
world example where someone did.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
It well, the old school way. The original way was
to put something over the top of the original card reader, correct.
I mean quite often you could tell that that had happened.
You could grab a hold of it and jiggle it.
It might pop off, and then it'd be revealed to
be in your hand. I mean, I at least there
was an opportunity for people to try or look for
something like that. How do they install these card skimming
(02:47):
devices inside that device?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, imagine just a small board, right, a small circuit board,
and you just drop it in the slot. I mean,
that's how small these things have gotten. Now, you know,
sometimes there's a second angle to this, because everything you
said is right about the older stuff. In many cases
it would literally fit over aperture for the credit card,
so you're sticking your card through their device. Sometimes I
(03:12):
might have a different color. It might be loose whatever
with this with these newer, smaller technologies, again, it could
be something if it's completely inside the slot, so you
wouldn't really see it. You wouldn't know what to look for.
Even if you looked inside. Right, Well, it looks like
a circuit board. This thing's electronic, it's probably okay. So yeah,
that's part of the issue with this, Brian, as if
(03:33):
they get more smaller and more sophisticated, they get more
difficult to detect. And in the old days too, and
many cases you'd have to come retrieve the thing is
the criminal to get the data out of it. But
now some of these things can support wireless protocols like
Bluetooth or Wi Fi or something like that, so once
I've deployed it, I don't necessarily need to ever touch
it again. As a criminal, I could just pull into
(03:54):
the lot and get the data off of it. So
they've gotten trickier. You know a couple other things you
should look for, and again this depends on the type
of skimmer they're using. Would be okay, if I have
a debit card, I got it. The criminal's got to
get my pen so sometimes they'll also deploy a tiny
camera or possibly an overlay over the keypad. So if
you wheel up on one of these devices and it
(04:15):
looks like it's been tampered with in any way, including
like the keypad looks funny. It looks like there's something
laid over the keypad where if you could potentially see
a camera. Now, I get this is a lot to
look for. You know, these guys want to place the
camera so they can see you type in your pin,
or they want to put an overlay over the keypad
so they can capture that pin. It gets tricky, and
(04:36):
you know, as they have to apply these other devices,
there's more likelihood to get caught. It sounds like, you know,
these guys got caught pretty quickly, but it's certainly something
to be on the lookout for. You know. A general
recommendation I would make to people is to try to
always use a device where it's in eye sight of
(04:57):
another human being. You know, pick the pump if it's
closest to the cashiers. Pick the pump where you know
there are security cameras. Again, it doesn't have to be
a gas pump though it could be an ATM. It
it could even in this case, it sounds like they
weren't tamping with the gas pumps, they were actually tampering
with the credit card readers inside the building. So it's
a tricky problem to solve, but if you know it's
(05:19):
a thing, at least you can be more cautious and
potentially use a credit card to avail yourself of the
Consumer protection City. Yes, credit cards versus debit cards.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I'm glad I was anticipating asking you about that. A
reminding listeners, uniform commercial code protects you. You're only liable
for fifty bucks if someone abuses your credit card, not
the case when you're using your pin and having the
money taken directly out of your bank account. That's danger
zone right there. That is a really really bad idea.
And I guess these card readers you said, someone needs
to maybe have a video camera to see your pin
(05:49):
or something. Can't they, you know, like record what numbers
you're typing in when you're putting your pin in with
these device readers.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Probably not with it, and I can't say for sure,
but with the reader itself, you know, typically it's just
electronic Okay, an electronic device is trying to read the
mag stripe you know, the keypad is separate, but in
many cases they'll put like a little overlay over it
so it looks, you know, it's it's another keypad sitting
over top of the real keypads, so when you punch
your number in, they're capturing it from that, or they're
(06:21):
placing a camera somewhere where they can see the keypad
so they can capture that pin.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Gotcha. And of course we can't end the segment without saying,
you know, with regard to the reading of your card
just by being near you Faraday wallet, right.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, that's always a good thing, they said, blocking wallets.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah, just type in Amazon. You just got I know
you people hate Amazon or love it either way. Just
type in RFID wallet or something. And maybe even I'm
presuming they make purses along the same way Faraday purses,
and you there you go. You'll be protected at least
from that type of shenanigans. We'll bring day back. We'll
talk about users apparently not liking or saying no to
the Windows eleven up, six thirty six. Right now, if
(07:01):
you five krcit talk talk station, it's six forty and
fifty five krsit the talk station doing that tech Friday
with Dave how It brought to you again by intrust
it online at interest dot com. I haven't been I
haven't used Windows, and I can't remember how long it's
been more than a decade. I went Apple and for
(07:22):
a different couple of reasons. But so I'm no longer
hip to the whole Windows upgrade thing. But why are
users saying no to the Windows eleven upgrade?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Dave hatter Well, Ron, I think it's a combination of things.
You know, first off, people get comfortable with the way
a particular operating system works and don't want to change. True.
I think people also don't really understand the risk of
having end of life systems, you know, whether it's Windows, Linux,
Mac Apple, iOS, Android, whatever, or a particular piece of
(07:52):
software like Chrome. For what it's worth, if you still
use Google Chrome, I suggest you dropped that. By the way,
it supposed to a privacy friendly browser like Brave, Firefox,
Tour or Safari. But if you still use Chrome, critical
updates came out the other day. My point being, when
you have end of life software or software that needs
to be updated, end of life means the manufacturer is
no longer putting out any updates, right, So it doesn't
(08:14):
really matter what the platform of software is. Once you
hit that point, then you are, over time increasing your
risk of some sort of attack against that vulnerability because
the bad guys will find them and the manufacturer's not
fixing them. Windows ten went end of life in October,
So whether it's people don't want to switch because they're
familiar with Windows ten, they don't want to spend the
(08:35):
money in some cases to upgrade from Windows ten to
Windows eleven you need to get a new computer because
the older hardware will not support Windows eleven, or it's
they don't understand the risk. I think those are probably
the four main reasons. Apparently from some recent reporting and
some information that came from Dell, obviously one of the
large PC manufacturers out there for the Windows operating system,
(08:57):
there are a huge number of people who so far,
despite Windows ten going into life in October, have not
made the leap to Windows eleven yet, and again as
time goes on, that's a bigger and bigger problem.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Well, I mean, I get all the points you're making,
but insofar as ten versus eleven, to your initial point,
people don't like the change or the look or whatever.
Are they that dramatically different.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
In my opinion, No, Brian, But you know again, people
get used to something and then stuff gets moved around.
They don't like the way it looks, and you know it.
In my opinion, Now you know me, mister tin Floyd
hat guy here, I'm going to tell you that the
security risks to you, especially if you're not very technical
and you're not doing other things to mitigate those risks,
(09:46):
the security risks to you by not switching would well
outweigh the inconvenience you're going to experience for the first
several days while you get used to it. Now, you know,
people have other issues with Windows eleven. It's got a
lot more let's say, it's less privacy friendly than order versions. Again,
all of these big tech companies have their issues, but
(10:08):
just from a simple security perspective, not having an operating system,
since that's the fundamental part that drives everything else you
do on your device. And again this would be Apple, iOS, Android, Mac,
whatever you're using, if you hit a point where you
can't get updates anymore over time, you are going to
(10:29):
substantially put yourself at risk because there are bad guys
always looking for flaws these things have millions of lines
of code in them. There are flaws that are yet
to be discovered. I mean, Microsoft patch Tuesday once a
month usually is fixing dozens of things, not all security related.
You know, when you look at the Apple patches for
iOS for your phone, usually dozens of things are fixed.
(10:52):
As time wears on, and those don't get fixed, you're
putting yourself at risk. And now you may decide get
off Windows and go to Mac, use Linux, do so
something different. But if you're still running Windows ten or worse,
something like Windows eight or Windows seven, you are at
substantial risk with these older operating systems if you don't
upgrade them. I mean, just reading this Forbes article that
(11:13):
I sent to Joe about this, right, the headline is
security disaster, five hundred million Microsoft users saying no to
Windows eleven, and then you know it goes on to
say Microsoft's looming security disaster is worse than feared. Those
aren't my words, This is from Forbes. A staggering billion
Windows users are at risk is the sheer scale of
the task. You know, goes on YadA, YadA, YadA, But
(11:34):
they're just pointing out that you really need to get
off Windows ten and anything older than that. Absolutely you
need to get something different.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Well, that five hundred million figure serves to prove the
point you dis made. That's why the criminals are out
there looking for ways to exploit old, no longer serviced
operating systems. A lot of people have resisted so much
it makes them an easy target.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
That's exactly right, Brian, And I want to point something
else out too. Now again, I'm I'm not here to
advocate for any particular platform at this point. I'm mostly
Windows based most of our customers and Windows based that's
how most business operates. But all of that said, there
are many choices at this point. Again, even something like
Chrome OS. Now, I'm not going to use products from
(12:16):
Google if I can help it. But you got Linux,
you got Mac. There's a lot of choices. But to
your point, you know, one of the reasons why Windows
is more attacked than others is because it has the
largest user base. Right, If I'm a criminal and I
want to steal your money or your data, or ideally both,
do I want to go after the smallest possible platform,
where you know I have less opportunities, or do I
(12:38):
want to go after the largest platform so again, I'm
not saying Windows doesn't have its issues. I'm just saying
one of the reasons why it's more attacked is because
it's a much larger user base. And as these systems
become obsolete, as you build up this technical debt, as
you have these systems that can't be patched, of course
they're going to go after those because it's easier for
(12:58):
them than the late and greatest version of whatever operating
system that's got all the latest and greatest security stuff.
And you're exactly right.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Well, i'll tell you what. We'll pause now and we'll
continue an attack on Google. Coming up next Dave's favorite
company six forty six right now for CD Talks Station.
I'm looking at him. He's in studio, Congressman Brad Well.
I'm sorry, Citizen Brad Winsor. I still want to call
him Congressman. Will be talking a full hour in the
next segment with him. In the meantime, Tech Friddy's Dave
hatters on yet another reason to hate Google. It's a
(13:26):
real grabbing headline. Google starts sharing all your text messages
with your employer. Well there's a red flag, Dave.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
What, Well, Brian, you know the sort of typical of
clickbait headlines. Yeah, you know, for Forbes generally puts out
pretty good information in this space. You know, I read
a lot, and particularly this author, Zach Dorfmann. He's pretty
good in this privacy and security space. I understand what
he's saying. It's not quite as dire as it makes
(13:55):
this sound. And really it boils down to how text works. Right.
If you and I are both sending messages to each
other over Apple phones, they're into end encrypted because that's
the way Apple text works. Okay, But if you're on
an Android phone and I'm on an Apple phone, well
they work differently. So the end to end encryption potentially
goes away. And since the original version of text people
(14:19):
can think back to their flip phones and how limited
that was. Different protocols have been built to allow the
exchange of more rich information, right, things like pictures and
files and that sort of thing. Right, so that's come
on over time. Well, again, how Apple does it versus
how Android does it is different. One of the protocols
to make that work without getting too nerdy is something
called RCS Rich Communication Services, which basically allows you to
(14:44):
do things like see when the other person is typing again,
stuff that Apple's had for a long time. This works
back and forth even if you're not on an Apple phone,
voice messages, file sharing group chats, all this sort of stuff. Right,
So RCS in and of itself is a good thing
that allows you to be more compatible between different types
of texting systems. The problem, though, is is this article
(15:07):
points out if you know, most people are understand that
email is sort of inherently insecure unless it's encrypted, and
then it's easy to monitor. Most people sort of think, okay,
if I'm texting, my employer can't necessarily see that. And
what they point out here and again, why I say
it's a little bit clickbaity is because if you have
an employer supplied phone, right, they can turn on a
(15:31):
feature in the management of the phone that would allow
them to archive your text messages. Right, so they you
and I both have Android phones. Let's say we're texting
each other. Well, if that phone is supplied by the
company and they choose to turn on this feature, they
can archive my text messages. They're not really private. Now,
I would argue, and I think you probably would too, Brian.
(15:51):
If the employer supplies the phone, just like anything else
they supply, Well, they have the right to monitor it.
They're going to do what they want with it. I
think that the thing that this is trying to warn
about where this article is many people think that, you know,
they hear into end encryption. They talk about apps like
What's Happened Signaling this sort of thing, and they think
their texts are secure and if you have it, I
(16:12):
would argue, if you have an employer supplied device, the
employer can put tools on that device and ultimately read
anything they want. So I think this is just a
it's a good warning for folks. If you're on Android
and your phone is supplied by your employer, don't assume
that they can't access your text messages or you might
have some trouble on your hands depending on what you're doing.
But even better, Brian, I would just say this as
(16:35):
anything you do electronically can be can be accessed. Don't
assume anything you're doing in any electronic form is ultimately
private to you.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Well, I thought you were going to have a go
at Google, like Tom calls everyone and says, don't vote Democrat,
don't use Google.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Well, you know, if you're in a situation where that's
what your employer gives you. You may not have a choice,
so you know, you need to understand what could be
happening here. And you know this is I'm reading from
this Forbes article. Google says this is a quote dependable
Android supported solution for message archival, which is backwards compatible
with SMS and MMS message as well. Employees will see
(17:10):
a clear notification on their device when the archival feature
is active, So that's good news. You know, if you
have an employer's supply device and they turn this feature on,
it will tell you that. But I also get a
lot of people don't understand all this stuff, aren't paying attention.
And again I think the real heads up is if
you're an Android phone user and your device is supplied
by your employer, understand that any text messaging you're doing
(17:32):
on that device may be accessible by your employer.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Right, so don't act accordingly exactly. There is the underscoring
legitimately across the board, shenanigans and problems people might find
themselves in if they do text information in the world
that they don't want anybody else to read. I mean,
I find out people are so dumb when it comes
to that leaving, they're leaving a trail of evidence for
anybody down the road. So don't engage in untoward activities
(17:59):
whatever those might be, and documented on text. How's that?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yes? And again you know, if you're worried about this,
get your own phone, use third party apps like Signal,
which I would recommend over What's happened because that's from
our friends at Meta. But also at the bottom line
is even if things are into and encrypted, even if
they're configured correctly, if you and I are messaging each
other to Signal Brian and we're doing something illegal, once
(18:26):
law enforcement has my device, if they can unlock the device,
well it unlocks the encryption and that's the content of
my Signal messages. So again, I think people watch TV
and they hear about in the end encryption and all
this security and privacy. But at the end of the day,
if I can unlock your device, will I unlock the
encryption that protects as messages I have them all? So again,
(18:46):
understand what this all really means, think about what privacy
is in today's world, and act accordingly. If you're doing
something illegal or something you don't want other people to know,
you can't assume that just because something is encrypted, that
it is protected, because if I can unlock your encryption,
I have it all.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Hey man interest dot Com that we find Dave and
the crew. Dave, thank you for you sponsoring this segment
that is so valuable and so informative and important. We'll
do it again next Friday. Have a great week between
now and then, and a wonderful weekend on top of it.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Always my pleasure, Brian. I look forward to chatting.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
With you next week, Citizen Brad weinstrip in studio where
you're talking to him for a full hour. Plenty of
topics to talk about with Brad.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Be right back.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Today's top headlines coming on
The talk station six twenty nine on a Friday. It
(00:03):
is that time appointment listening, necessary listening, that is, if
you want to stay out of trouble in your online antics.
Brought to you by intrust it dot com. It's tech Friday.
But Dave Hatter interest I dot COM's Dave's company. If
you outstanding work, if you're a business, I know you've
got computers and computer needs. They are the default folks
to rely upon. Interest I dot com, the business courrier
says are the best in the business. And who can
(00:25):
doubt what they say about a Dave Hatter. Thank you
for what you do each and every day for my
listeners and their companies. Welcome back for another important discussion.
It's time for tech Friday. Good here, Happy Friday Day.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, Happy Friday to you, Brian and Joe and all
your listeners. Happy to be here, glad you are.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
And this skimmer thing we've got I know you relied
on a local story about a convenience store card reader,
a skimmer thing. We can talk about that, but this
also goes along with the idea that they can capture
your card information by you know, digitally or through the waves, right,
I mean the elect tronically. They don't even need to
touch you or touch your card, that.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Is correct, Brian. I mean it depends on the type
of cards you have and the type of device they have.
But what you're describing really is just another form of skimming. Now.
You know, when you look at this, you hear different
terms skimming, shimming, that sort of thing. But basically, you know,
most credit cards still have a max right, some have
the chip. You know, you can use the near field
(01:25):
communication to pay, the tap to pay, you can wipe
your card. There's there's all these different ways that you know,
you can get the information off a credit card or
debit card. Now, this particular thing again, we've talked about
this before and it's showing up here once again in
the Tri State area. People using skimmers, which are basically devices.
(01:46):
Depending on the device, sometimes it's called a shimmer if
it goes inside, but essentially you either put a device
over the aperture of the credit card reader or inside
the credit card reader. Could be a gas pump, could
be an ATM, could be a point sales system sitting
on a counter somewhere. But you know, once you put
the card into it, it attempts to read the mag strip.
(02:07):
It attempts to read the chip again. Whatever it's designed
to do, or tap to pay, it can potentially, you know,
I could walk up to you with the right device
in my pocket, bump into you, and try to read
the cards in your wallet. So there's a variety of
different ways this works. We're just now seeing another real
world example where someone did.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
It well, the old school way. The original way was
to put something over the top of the original card reader, correct.
I mean quite often you could tell that that had happened.
You could grab a hold of it and jiggle it.
It might pop off, and then it'd be revealed to
be in your hand. I mean, I at least there
was an opportunity for people to try or look for
something like that. How do they install these card skimming
(02:47):
devices inside that device?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, imagine just a small board, right, a small circuit board,
and you just drop it in the slot. I mean,
that's how small these things have gotten. Now, you know,
sometimes there's a second angle to this, because everything you
said is right about the older stuff. In many cases
it would literally fit over aperture for the credit card,
so you're sticking your card through their device. Sometimes I
(03:12):
might have a different color. It might be loose whatever
with this with these newer, smaller technologies, again, it could
be something if it's completely inside the slot, so you
wouldn't really see it. You wouldn't know what to look for.
Even if you looked inside. Right, Well, it looks like
a circuit board. This thing's electronic, it's probably okay. So yeah,
that's part of the issue with this, Brian, as if
(03:33):
they get more smaller and more sophisticated, they get more
difficult to detect. And in the old days too, and
many cases you'd have to come retrieve the thing is
the criminal to get the data out of it. But
now some of these things can support wireless protocols like
Bluetooth or Wi Fi or something like that, so once
I've deployed it, I don't necessarily need to ever touch
it again. As a criminal, I could just pull into
(03:54):
the lot and get the data off of it. So
they've gotten trickier. You know a couple other things you
should look for, and again this depends on the type
of skimmer they're using. Would be okay, if I have
a debit card, I got it. The criminal's got to
get my pen so sometimes they'll also deploy a tiny
camera or possibly an overlay over the keypad. So if
you wheel up on one of these devices and it
(04:15):
looks like it's been tampered with in any way, including
like the keypad looks funny. It looks like there's something
laid over the keypad where if you could potentially see
a camera. Now, I get this is a lot to
look for. You know, these guys want to place the
camera so they can see you type in your pin,
or they want to put an overlay over the keypad
so they can capture that pin. It gets tricky, and
(04:36):
you know, as they have to apply these other devices,
there's more likelihood to get caught. It sounds like, you know,
these guys got caught pretty quickly, but it's certainly something
to be on the lookout for. You know. A general
recommendation I would make to people is to try to
always use a device where it's in eye sight of
(04:57):
another human being. You know, pick the pump if it's
closest to the cashiers. Pick the pump where you know
there are security cameras. Again, it doesn't have to be
a gas pump though it could be an ATM. It
it could even in this case, it sounds like they
weren't tamping with the gas pumps, they were actually tampering
with the credit card readers inside the building. So it's
a tricky problem to solve, but if you know it's
(05:19):
a thing, at least you can be more cautious and
potentially use a credit card to avail yourself of the
Consumer protection City. Yes, credit cards versus debit cards.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I'm glad I was anticipating asking you about that. A
reminding listeners, uniform commercial code protects you. You're only liable
for fifty bucks if someone abuses your credit card, not
the case when you're using your pin and having the
money taken directly out of your bank account. That's danger
zone right there. That is a really really bad idea.
And I guess these card readers you said, someone needs
to maybe have a video camera to see your pin
(05:49):
or something. Can't they, you know, like record what numbers
you're typing in when you're putting your pin in with
these device readers.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Probably not with it, and I can't say for sure,
but with the reader itself, you know, typically it's just
electronic Okay, an electronic device is trying to read the
mag stripe you know, the keypad is separate, but in
many cases they'll put like a little overlay over it
so it looks, you know, it's it's another keypad sitting
over top of the real keypads, so when you punch
your number in, they're capturing it from that, or they're
(06:21):
placing a camera somewhere where they can see the keypad
so they can capture that pin.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Gotcha. And of course we can't end the segment without saying,
you know, with regard to the reading of your card
just by being near you Faraday wallet, right.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, that's always a good thing, they said, blocking wallets.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah, just type in Amazon. You just got I know
you people hate Amazon or love it either way. Just
type in RFID wallet or something. And maybe even I'm
presuming they make purses along the same way Faraday purses,
and you there you go. You'll be protected at least
from that type of shenanigans. We'll bring day back. We'll
talk about users apparently not liking or saying no to
the Windows eleven up, six thirty six. Right now, if
(07:01):
you five krcit talk talk station, it's six forty and
fifty five krsit the talk station doing that tech Friday
with Dave how It brought to you again by intrust
it online at interest dot com. I haven't been I
haven't used Windows, and I can't remember how long it's
been more than a decade. I went Apple and for
(07:22):
a different couple of reasons. But so I'm no longer
hip to the whole Windows upgrade thing. But why are
users saying no to the Windows eleven upgrade?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Dave hatter Well, Ron, I think it's a combination of things.
You know, first off, people get comfortable with the way
a particular operating system works and don't want to change. True.
I think people also don't really understand the risk of
having end of life systems, you know, whether it's Windows, Linux,
Mac Apple, iOS, Android, whatever, or a particular piece of
(07:52):
software like Chrome. For what it's worth, if you still
use Google Chrome, I suggest you dropped that. By the way,
it supposed to a privacy friendly browser like Brave, Firefox,
Tour or Safari. But if you still use Chrome, critical
updates came out the other day. My point being, when
you have end of life software or software that needs
to be updated, end of life means the manufacturer is
no longer putting out any updates, right, So it doesn't
(08:14):
really matter what the platform of software is. Once you
hit that point, then you are, over time increasing your
risk of some sort of attack against that vulnerability because
the bad guys will find them and the manufacturer's not
fixing them. Windows ten went end of life in October,
So whether it's people don't want to switch because they're
familiar with Windows ten, they don't want to spend the
(08:35):
money in some cases to upgrade from Windows ten to
Windows eleven you need to get a new computer because
the older hardware will not support Windows eleven, or it's
they don't understand the risk. I think those are probably
the four main reasons. Apparently from some recent reporting and
some information that came from Dell, obviously one of the
large PC manufacturers out there for the Windows operating system,
(08:57):
there are a huge number of people who so far,
despite Windows ten going into life in October, have not
made the leap to Windows eleven yet, and again as
time goes on, that's a bigger and bigger problem.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Well, I mean, I get all the points you're making,
but insofar as ten versus eleven, to your initial point,
people don't like the change or the look or whatever.
Are they that dramatically different.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
In my opinion, No, Brian, But you know again, people
get used to something and then stuff gets moved around.
They don't like the way it looks, and you know it.
In my opinion, Now you know me, mister tin Floyd
hat guy here, I'm going to tell you that the
security risks to you, especially if you're not very technical
and you're not doing other things to mitigate those risks,
(09:46):
the security risks to you by not switching would well
outweigh the inconvenience you're going to experience for the first
several days while you get used to it. Now, you know,
people have other issues with Windows eleven. It's got a
lot more let's say, it's less privacy friendly than order versions. Again,
all of these big tech companies have their issues, but
(10:08):
just from a simple security perspective, not having an operating system,
since that's the fundamental part that drives everything else you
do on your device. And again this would be Apple, iOS, Android, Mac,
whatever you're using, if you hit a point where you
can't get updates anymore over time, you are going to
(10:29):
substantially put yourself at risk because there are bad guys
always looking for flaws these things have millions of lines
of code in them. There are flaws that are yet
to be discovered. I mean, Microsoft patch Tuesday once a
month usually is fixing dozens of things, not all security related.
You know, when you look at the Apple patches for
iOS for your phone, usually dozens of things are fixed.
(10:52):
As time wears on, and those don't get fixed, you're
putting yourself at risk. And now you may decide get
off Windows and go to Mac, use Linux, do so
something different. But if you're still running Windows ten or worse,
something like Windows eight or Windows seven, you are at
substantial risk with these older operating systems if you don't
upgrade them. I mean, just reading this Forbes article that
(11:13):
I sent to Joe about this, right, the headline is
security disaster, five hundred million Microsoft users saying no to
Windows eleven, and then you know it goes on to
say Microsoft's looming security disaster is worse than feared. Those
aren't my words, This is from Forbes. A staggering billion
Windows users are at risk is the sheer scale of
the task. You know, goes on YadA, YadA, YadA, But
(11:34):
they're just pointing out that you really need to get
off Windows ten and anything older than that. Absolutely you
need to get something different.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Well, that five hundred million figure serves to prove the
point you dis made. That's why the criminals are out
there looking for ways to exploit old, no longer serviced
operating systems. A lot of people have resisted so much
it makes them an easy target.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
That's exactly right, Brian, And I want to point something
else out too. Now again, I'm I'm not here to
advocate for any particular platform at this point. I'm mostly
Windows based most of our customers and Windows based that's
how most business operates. But all of that said, there
are many choices at this point. Again, even something like
Chrome OS. Now, I'm not going to use products from
(12:16):
Google if I can help it. But you got Linux,
you got Mac. There's a lot of choices. But to
your point, you know, one of the reasons why Windows
is more attacked than others is because it has the
largest user base. Right, If I'm a criminal and I
want to steal your money or your data, or ideally both,
do I want to go after the smallest possible platform,
where you know I have less opportunities, or do I
(12:38):
want to go after the largest platform so again, I'm
not saying Windows doesn't have its issues. I'm just saying
one of the reasons why it's more attacked is because
it's a much larger user base. And as these systems
become obsolete, as you build up this technical debt, as
you have these systems that can't be patched, of course
they're going to go after those because it's easier for
(12:58):
them than the late and greatest version of whatever operating
system that's got all the latest and greatest security stuff.
And you're exactly right.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Well, i'll tell you what. We'll pause now and we'll
continue an attack on Google. Coming up next Dave's favorite
company six forty six right now for CD Talks Station.
I'm looking at him. He's in studio, Congressman Brad Well.
I'm sorry, Citizen Brad Winsor. I still want to call
him Congressman. Will be talking a full hour in the
next segment with him. In the meantime, Tech Friddy's Dave
hatters on yet another reason to hate Google. It's a
(13:26):
real grabbing headline. Google starts sharing all your text messages
with your employer. Well there's a red flag, Dave.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
What, Well, Brian, you know the sort of typical of
clickbait headlines. Yeah, you know, for Forbes generally puts out
pretty good information in this space. You know, I read
a lot, and particularly this author, Zach Dorfmann. He's pretty
good in this privacy and security space. I understand what
he's saying. It's not quite as dire as it makes
(13:55):
this sound. And really it boils down to how text works. Right.
If you and I are both sending messages to each
other over Apple phones, they're into end encrypted because that's
the way Apple text works. Okay, But if you're on
an Android phone and I'm on an Apple phone, well
they work differently. So the end to end encryption potentially
goes away. And since the original version of text people
(14:19):
can think back to their flip phones and how limited
that was. Different protocols have been built to allow the
exchange of more rich information, right, things like pictures and
files and that sort of thing. Right, so that's come
on over time. Well, again, how Apple does it versus
how Android does it is different. One of the protocols
to make that work without getting too nerdy is something
called RCS Rich Communication Services, which basically allows you to
(14:44):
do things like see when the other person is typing again,
stuff that Apple's had for a long time. This works
back and forth even if you're not on an Apple phone,
voice messages, file sharing group chats, all this sort of stuff. Right,
So RCS in and of itself is a good thing
that allows you to be more compatible between different types
of texting systems. The problem, though, is is this article
(15:07):
points out if you know, most people are understand that
email is sort of inherently insecure unless it's encrypted, and
then it's easy to monitor. Most people sort of think, okay,
if I'm texting, my employer can't necessarily see that. And
what they point out here and again, why I say
it's a little bit clickbaity is because if you have
an employer supplied phone, right, they can turn on a
(15:31):
feature in the management of the phone that would allow
them to archive your text messages. Right, so they you
and I both have Android phones. Let's say we're texting
each other. Well, if that phone is supplied by the
company and they choose to turn on this feature, they
can archive my text messages. They're not really private. Now,
I would argue, and I think you probably would too, Brian.
(15:51):
If the employer supplies the phone, just like anything else
they supply, Well, they have the right to monitor it.
They're going to do what they want with it. I
think that the thing that this is trying to warn
about where this article is many people think that, you know,
they hear into end encryption. They talk about apps like
What's Happened Signaling this sort of thing, and they think
their texts are secure and if you have it, I
(16:12):
would argue, if you have an employer supplied device, the
employer can put tools on that device and ultimately read
anything they want. So I think this is just a
it's a good warning for folks. If you're on Android
and your phone is supplied by your employer, don't assume
that they can't access your text messages or you might
have some trouble on your hands depending on what you're doing.
But even better, Brian, I would just say this as
(16:35):
anything you do electronically can be can be accessed. Don't
assume anything you're doing in any electronic form is ultimately
private to you.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Well, I thought you were going to have a go
at Google, like Tom calls everyone and says, don't vote Democrat,
don't use Google.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Well, you know, if you're in a situation where that's
what your employer gives you. You may not have a choice,
so you know, you need to understand what could be
happening here. And you know this is I'm reading from
this Forbes article. Google says this is a quote dependable
Android supported solution for message archival, which is backwards compatible
with SMS and MMS message as well. Employees will see
(17:10):
a clear notification on their device when the archival feature
is active, So that's good news. You know, if you
have an employer's supply device and they turn this feature on,
it will tell you that. But I also get a
lot of people don't understand all this stuff, aren't paying attention.
And again I think the real heads up is if
you're an Android phone user and your device is supplied
by your employer, understand that any text messaging you're doing
(17:32):
on that device may be accessible by your employer.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Right, so don't act accordingly exactly. There is the underscoring
legitimately across the board, shenanigans and problems people might find
themselves in if they do text information in the world
that they don't want anybody else to read. I mean,
I find out people are so dumb when it comes
to that leaving, they're leaving a trail of evidence for
anybody down the road. So don't engage in untoward activities
(17:59):
whatever those might be, and documented on text. How's that?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yes? And again you know, if you're worried about this,
get your own phone, use third party apps like Signal,
which I would recommend over What's happened because that's from
our friends at Meta. But also at the bottom line
is even if things are into and encrypted, even if
they're configured correctly, if you and I are messaging each
other to Signal Brian and we're doing something illegal, once
(18:26):
law enforcement has my device, if they can unlock the device,
well it unlocks the encryption and that's the content of
my Signal messages. So again, I think people watch TV
and they hear about in the end encryption and all
this security and privacy. But at the end of the day,
if I can unlock your device, will I unlock the
encryption that protects as messages I have them all? So again,
(18:46):
understand what this all really means, think about what privacy
is in today's world, and act accordingly. If you're doing
something illegal or something you don't want other people to know,
you can't assume that just because something is encrypted, that
it is protected, because if I can unlock your encryption,
I have it all.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Hey man interest dot Com that we find Dave and
the crew. Dave, thank you for you sponsoring this segment
that is so valuable and so informative and important. We'll
do it again next Friday. Have a great week between
now and then, and a wonderful weekend on top of it.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Always my pleasure, Brian. I look forward to chatting.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
With you next week, Citizen Brad weinstrip in studio where
you're talking to him for a full hour. Plenty of
topics to talk about with Brad.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Be right back.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Today's top headlines coming on
Brian Thomas News
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